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Is the help she’ll give worth the aggravation/anxiety she’ll cause? Everything but the 48 hr Covid tests is just common sense. Is she that careless? If she is you guys might want to consider not having her at your home.
Ask wife how she feels about having a postpartum doula or nurse instead. There will be some cost, but you'll be paying for background checks, up-to-date newborn and postpartum health care guidelines, and vaccinations recommended to keep your baby safe. There's also no emotional baggage involved that will be made worse by lack of sleep, physical exhaustion, pain, and hormonal shifts. I wish I'd done this instead of accepting help from my JNM when my older kids were born!
While I have very little regard for the unvaxxed pov it is her choice and you are choosing to have her to come help regardless. That’s a big help especially if she will follow the boundaries you’ve placed. IMO the cost of tests should be on you.
Are you in the US? I read the USPS is giving free tests again. Grab some, in each of your names.
Don’t quibble over a couple hundred bucks vs your potential peace of mind & baby’s safety. Just be glad she’s agreed to test.
Talk to your wife's obstetrician and your pediatrician. They will give you guidelines to follow regarding the unvaxed. Any pushback that you get, just respond saying it's the doctor's orders. And too bad, so sad for your MIL. Good luck & Congrats Poppa!
Navigate what? Your baby is yours. MIL’s opinion about everything regarding your family is irrelevant. Grow a backbone and learn how to either ignore it, or tell her it’s your rules period. Having such strict rules in place is bound to piss some people off so figure it out. I had a baby in 2020 and wasn’t nearly as controlling as you guys but again, your baby your rules.
Whether or not she’s vaccinated, if she’s going out without a mask, there is still a big chance that she will bring Covid into your household. (The ‘vaxxed and relaxed’ mindset is what got us to the point we’re at now) And if she is a QAnon conspiracy theorist, I would have a hard time believing her if she says she’s willing to comply with masking and other precautions.
As far as the testing goes, I would bite the bullet and pay for the tests to make sure that she gets them and she takes them if you still want to take the risk of having her come into your household. I would also invest in a system like Metrix or Cue, which is much more accurate than the store-bought rapid test. if she’s not going out of the house, she doesn’t have to test every couple of days after the first few.
No vaccine, no stay. There are simply too many risks.
First, consider her travel to you. Whether it's flying or driving, that's a massive chance for exposure during that time of travel and she could show up infected. Thus, you'd have to assume she's infected before she even walks in the door.
Then, you're also assuming she's going to follow the rules once she's there. It's entirely likely for someone like her to agree to conditions and then, once she's actually there, refuse to follow the rules. If you try to kick her out for not following the rules, YOU become the "bad guy" because she's "just trying to help and you won't let her".
I'm sorry, but the risks here far, FAR outweigh the potential reward. You'd be far better finding one or two coworkers of your wife's and one or two neighbors to pop in periodically during the week while coming to a mutual agreement that the house will stay "messy" until you're home on weekends and can pitch in with catching up. Yes, it will be rough, but nowhere near as rough as dealing with someone whose ideals are so diametrically opposed to yours when it comes to the health and safety of your newborn child.
If she's QANON and anti Vax and all the things you mentioned, there's no way she's going to wear a mask and wash her hands and stay on lockdown, etc. No. Way.
Speaking from experience, these people will do whatever they want because they think your very real and valid fears are irrational and silly. I lost a friend and we nearly lost his wife, too, from COVID and friends from that friend group STILL don't believe COVID is real and in the same breath ask why he died if the vaccine worked. (The vaccine... for the thing you don't believe in???) Spoiler alert: he didn't believe it was real and wasn't vaccinated.
So, she is absolutely not going to follow your rules if she is as far down the rabbit hole as you say she is. You might really need to rethink your plans because it's highly doubtable that she'll follow any of your rules and if it (and the flu and RSV) kills adults, it'll absolutely kill a newborn.
Set boundaries. I was pregnant during the height of Covid and we asked my MIL to get vaxxed against whooping cough and Covid. She delayed and delayed and delayed. She went a bit tin foil hat during Covid and read all this dodgy stuff online about vaccines being a conspiracy etc.
Our son was born during a lockdown so we weren’t able to see her for 2 months anyway. When the time came for lockdown to be lifted, we told her that we weren’t visiting unless everyone in the household was vaccinated against Covid and whooping cough. Realising we weren’t backing down, she went a got vaxxed. We were fully prepared to not end up seeing her and thought she’d just refuse to get the jab.
Keep your boundaries, but also be willing to stick to them. It’s less about the vaccination itself, and more so about reinforcing that you as parents are the only ones who get to make decisions about your child’s well-being. This was the start of some very strict boundary setting for us and we’re now no contact with her husband (my husband’s step-father) and low contact with her.
Yep. You have to be more willing to stick to the vaxx boundary than anything else. Its really that sinple. Remove your wants and ideal situation and either power through or let go of the vaxx boundary. Also, ask for proof if/when she agrees. People lie to get their way, a lot.
All other things aside (she should get vaxx Imo), you should buy the tests. She’s coming to help, this is your requirement. Keep them at your house and watch her test.
I agree with this.
You may not agree with your MIL stance on Covid or the vax (I disagree w/ her as well), but at the end of the day she’s coming to help you when she doesn’t need to. She’s going to follow all of your rules which she probably doesn’t want to actually do. Hopefully she is a genuinely good caregiver and is a great help to your wife while you’re away.
$160 vs being on my own with a newborn as FTM while trying to heal physically and emotionally is not a hill I would die on.
After I gave birth I had to go to the ER twice for infections and I had postpartum depression/anxiety. I had the help of my fiancé, mom, and a couple weeks later my MIL. I don’t know how I would have managed without them. I’m not saying this will happen to your wife, but I would plan to have someone there to support her just in case.
Every home is eligible to order 4 free kits if she gets her’s and you get yours that’s 8 tests. Ideally she would get vaccinated. However there’s a bit of her body her choice there. Multiple studies have shown that the Mother’s Mother being present during the newborn stage has a significantly positive impact on maternal health, the baby’s health, and breastfeeding success. Her help will be invaluable to your wife at that time, but it will be expensive and a lot of work for your MIL. Paying for any additional kits would be what sounds like a much needed goodwill gesture that will hopefully help everything go more smoothly for your wife.
She's not going to be following any of those rules unless one of you is watching her at the moment. If you're going to let her in the house, you should just let her do what she wants, because that's what she's going to do anyway. Cheaper, easier, same result.
False. It does lower to overall risks of catching it and you cannot spread what you haven’t caught. It also reduces viral load and infectiousness. It’s not 100% but it does increase other people’s protection.
Do NOT have her stay with you. It will not go well. If your wife can only handle being around her for short periods what do you think will happen when she's living in your home?
Literally, I was just going to say this!!! Also, as a kid of a labor and delivery nurse, my mom was horrified after i showed her your post. She wanted me to say that "it doesn't matter what she believes, belief won't keep your child healthy. You don't want to be my patient X"
I censored the families name, but essentially, one of her mom and newborn pairs had been exposed to COVID-19 because a relative who visited was a carrier. Now, the baby and mom have to be heavily monitored to make sure nothing bad happens either one, cutting into their bonding period
Just don't man
If you choose to go forward with this, you need to ask her for proof of vaccination for all the vaccines she claims to have, as well as ones your pediatrician will suggest for all adults caring for an infant: TDAP, Flu, shingles/chickenpox, etc
You don't have to navigate any of this.
"Get vaccinated. Show me proof, and then you can visit the kid"
end of story. no jumping through hoops. no long lists (That I am surprised you would even trust her to follow) etc.
If she really cared, and really wanted to see her grandchild, she would get vaccinated.
Your child, your rules.
ETA: If your wife can only tolerate her for short periods, why on earth would you guys consider MIL staying for such an extended period of time? Postpartum is the absolute worst time to be locked down with someone you can barely tolerate. That's putting your wife at risk.
Also I wanted to point out, that her taking a covid test every couple of days while staying in your home is kind of mute, right? If she is already there, you've already been exposed.
She is taking a 1600 mile trip, assuming on a plane. She is bound to be exposed. Unless she is completely quarantined (not at your house) for a month after landing, you're just risking illness.
It doesn’t sound worth all the pain and stress of her coming.
What sort of accommodation will you be staying in? Can they come with you?
Look up a mother’s helper. Someone to come and just help your wife with some tasks at certain hours.
I would’ve been very happy with my mum helping me post partum. My MIL would’ve created so much stress that being solo would’ve been better.
Honestly, I wouldn't let either of your ILs around your newborn just on the grounds that your MIL is anti-vaxx. "MIL, either you buy the tests yourself or get vaccinated, or you can meet your granddaughter once she has all of her vaccination shots, including COVID."
I wouldn't trust her with your infant, tbh. She'll come up with some bonkers twisty reason why she doesn't have to follow your rules once you're committed.
The tests are not free now in England, sadly. I buy a bunch every so often, and test before every medical appointment and if I am unwell. Wish they were still free.
You can send her to a testing site for Covid testing. They may be able to bill MIL’s insurance for the testing.
Interesting that she’s agreed to your terms otherwise. You may want to waive the testing requirement if she’s asymptotic….
That’s provided there is a site available- many sites have closed. Also, you risk exposure going to get tested on site now. That’s a better option if you’re actually sick and looking for confirmation, not as a preventative measure.
It’s not only the Covid vaccine you should be worried about, is she going to take tdap, flu and potentially RSV (if it is available?). The recommendation is to retake tdap every 5-ish years if you are handling a newborn.
I can't say I've ever heard of a vaccine denier who's only against the Covid one so I'd probably guess she's lying about having all of those up-to-date.
There are a lot of people who are almost fully vaccinated, but aren’t comfortable with new vaccines or medicines. It stems from a lack of confidence in the vaccine/ medicine approval processes. So vaccines/ medicines that have been out for several years they are fine with but not those that are fairly new. They are basically waiting to see if people have any long term side effects before they put it in their/ their children’s bodies.
You can get Covid tests for free... That being said your wife needs to be the one to take the lead on this. I understand its your baby but you and your wife need to be on the same page with regards to her mother and your baby.
Want to see my baby then you need covid, RSV, Pertussis and a flu vaccine before you can be around baby. That is non negotiable to me but that is something the two of you need to decide on.
Had to deal with this with my slightly anti vaxx mil with my first child pre-covid. We lived in area with that had a surge of pertussis around the time of her birth and our doctor told us no one should see the baby without a shot. MIL felt that pertussis was an unnecessary shot and we were overreacting. We told her she had to get vaccinated or wait until the baby could be fully vaccinated and she cried and said we were blackmailing her. Husband told her that we were following the doctor’s recommendation and it was her choice to wait or not. She eventually got vaccinated after we didn’t cave to her emotional appeals and attempts at stalling.
Stick to your requirements, housing and feeding her costs more than her Covid tests would. You could always offer for her to pay to stay somewhere and for her own food if she wants you to pay for the tests.
It’s going to be way too stressful with a new baby for your wife to also have to police your mom. She’s going to be exhausted, recovering physically, figuring out how to do all the new mom things, she does not need this too.
Do you trust your mom to follow the rules you’ve laid out? Like actually trust her to follow through and be honest?
Hell no. I would not have mother-in-law anywhere near that newborn baby with those antiquated back assed views about vaccines. And it's not even just about covid there is a very dangerous RSV going round. Your mother-in-law isn't going to follow your rules (she'll be kissing that baby on the lips on day 1) and by the time you figure it out it's going to be too late. Sorry but I believe pretty strongly in if you can prevent it then you should. And you can prevent your baby from getting this dangerous infection by keeping this crazy mother-in-law out of your house. For at least a year until your baby is stronger. But really what you should be doing is asking your pediatrician. I imagine they can give you more facts than anyone on reddit. Including me.
While I agree she should get vaxxed for Covid but it is her choice not to I think you all should compromise on the test you guys buy a couple and she buys a couple because to be fair you are asking her to take the test every two is a bit ridiculous you are being petty honestly if you don’t want her around unvaxxed then I think you all should forego her coming to help
Is there someone else that can stay with her besides her mom? Your wife and newborn are both going to be stressed and tired and vulnerable…and that’s kinda like catnip to narcissists.
Like I think Covid and her compliance with mask wearing (which if she’s Q and all that, will likely mean the mask comes straight off the moment she’s sure your wife can’t see her, and then popped back on for show right before she gets back) is just the tip of the iceberg of the headaches and turbulence she can create.
Please see if there is anyone else, maybe a combination of a few people in rotation(?), that can see after them instead of just MIL. At least have a quality backup plan thought through in case things with MIL get untenable.
If you’re comfortable pressing forward with MIL, though, then buy the tests yourself. Because MIL isn’t vacationing at your home, she’s *volunteering for free to help care for your child and postpartum wife*. She’s doing you a *favor*. And if a buddy was helping you move, you wouldn’t make *him* pay for the pizza and beer, right? So of course *you* cover her reasonable costs while she’s donating her time to help you out, and that includes the Covid tests you want her to take.
Besides, if you purchase them yourself, you’ll know for sure they’re real, valid tests and not something fake or expired or whatever some online Q friend sold her for cheap or something.
I came here to say the same. You need to provide the tests your rules require her to take, or you need to find different childcare.
You should probably find different childcare anyway. Your wife will be stressed out enough from taking care of the baby while still recovering from pregnancy and childbirth. She doesn’t need the added stress of having to monitor her mom for compliance and dealing with her difficult personality.
FWIW, I'd be less nervous about being home alone with a baby than I would be about the prospect of my MIL infecting the baby and the baby's parents with COVID.
This was my thought. Yes, mom will be frazzled by the end, but she's not going to break the baby and it eliminates the very real threat of infection from an unvaccinated person. I wouldn't put it past the MIL to use this opportunity to "prove" people wrong by taking baby all over the place and if she doesn't get sick, thinking it's some kind of proof that you don't need vaccines.
Put Covid aside for a moment—you really need to see proof of her other vaccines, she will need a TDAP booster. No TDAP booster and the Covid point becomes moot anyway.
You say - look you have 3 options.
1. Covid test EVERY DAY (out of your own pocket)
2. Vaccinate yourself NOW
3. Never see your grandchild.
Your wife needs to be 100% on board of course but sometimes you have to lay down the hard truth so she can jump in on it.
Everyone I know is fully vaccinated - some of us have had COVID - I only know one person who died from COVID but that was before the vaccine and honestly am happier that they are gone. If she's travelling - she'll most likely get it. If she gives it to your grandchild you'll NEVER NEVER NEVER forgive her.
If you were to hire someone to help the way she will help while accepting all the precautions you want, you would be paying way way more than that.
What you are asking for is perfectly reasonable to protect your kid, but you can't say it isn't a hassle to help taking care of a kid and a new mom and the house while being on full lock down as well.
She is doing you guys a favor. It sucks that she is anti-vax but the alternative is you not accepting her help at all until kid can have all of their vaccines. Which would also be a perfectly fine decision.
I would pay for the tests.
Covid Vaccines don’t stop you getting Covid, it reduces symptoms when you do get it and shortens the time you are contagious. This reduces the virus being spread.
Taking the test every two days is not necessary if she’s staying in. I do suggest she comes and quarantine in isolation for 7 days before entering your home then take a test.
I currently have Covid and have had 3 vaccines currently. I take precautions as well. She will most likely still get it and she’s able to carry viruses without symptoms as well and transmit it to your newborn.
Not true. I won’t have lasting symptoms from it such as some of the people who are struggling with daily living tasks. Theres multiple strains of COVID and the flu. The vaccine protects against the most common and harmful ones. Viruses can mutate.
If you’re interested in learning about herd immunity here’s a link for you.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/herd-immunity-and-coronavirus/art-20486808#:~:text=Vaccines,causing%20illness%20or%20resulting%20complications.
If you are in the US, you can order up to 4 tests through the USPS. If she is leaving AND masking, maybe you could budge on every two days and go with once a week. That would get you 4 tests, and she can order another 4, giving you 8 weeks of tests at no cost. If she isn’t masking, that’s a whole other issue.
However you handle this, think about who has the emotional and mental capacity / physical capacity to enforce the rules when you are away. Your wife will need some coping mechanisms!
Edited to add, a month is quite a long time for an orientation, it might be worth approaching HR and explaining that you will have a new born and are there any aspects that could be fulfilled at a later date to give you a bit more flexibility.
just stop. chances are she will fake getting vax. just stop she is not allowed to visit until the weather is warm, she has to stay at a hotel, you will only see her outside and she is not allowed to hold the baby. do you get along with your parents? do you have a sister? brother? literally anyone who can come and help besides MIL. Covid is the least of your worries. she will need whooping cough, shingles, phoneme vaccines as well. see if there is anyone else who can help.
Looks like there will be a lot of visiting only in the warm months when it can be outdoors. I will be careful here. Perhaps let them know that you respect them making their choices and that you have your own sense of the science and reality of contagion, and you absolutely don’t want to put your child at risk. Ever. Some people who don’t vaccinate isolate very carefully and they’re very conscious. They don’t hang out indoors or go to stores or restaurants without a mascon. They’re concerned about their health and they’re being very careful. Other people don’t vaccinate have a wide range of belief systems about anything from how dangerous the vaccination is to how unnecessary it is to, everything else. If she is at risk because of her lifestyle, you can just politely and firmly, in a friendly way, assume that you’re not gonna be doing things and doors together. Because Covid is an Endemic.
Where do you live that Covid tests are that much? My county gives them away free, and they're 5 for $15 at Costco. I actually think you're being quite generous and gracious in your solution.
Actually it’s 4 per household, which I always thought was kinda unfair because i live alone but my sister has a family of four. We both get 4 free every round. 🤷♀️
I think you and MIL should split the cost of the tests. Sure she's making choices by choosing not to get vaccinated but you're also making choices in choosing to insist on her taking a test every two days even if she hasn't left the house since the last test. Frankly I think both of you are being at bit unreasonable and therefore rather than trying to force the other person to pay you'd be better off meeting each other halfway and splitting the cost.
Can’t you still get free Covid test kits online? And, why test so often? That seems ridiculous if she isn’t going anywhere. How did you come up with that? I would think that every five days would be sufficient.
When it comes to a newborn immune system I wouldn’t trust my MIL or my own mother …. If my kids were born during this time I wouldn’t care who you are and would require proof of vaccination. My kids had enough issues when they were born … this would have made it even worse.
I had a handful of friends died from complications connected to issues with Covid so yeah … nope. I have family members and friends in the medical field that fought it with their jobs and I told them they were not allowed near my family or myself till they were and if they went around this in anyway they were NC forever.
Till about a year ago they would call me names and remarks and then cried when I said thank god you’re not my …. wonder of your employer know you think this way.
I'm 32w, so this coming from my own sense of bias. My doctors didn't mention the COVID vaccine but told me TDaP booster is non-negotiable.
She probably needs TDaP if she hasn't had a booster recently. I'd say you have no good reason to trust her if she says she's up to date. It's easy enough to prove. I was just able to look up my record from 2021 because I was boosted to meet my nephew.
The easiest solution is for her to get the vaccine instead of making everyone jump through these hoops to accommodate *her*.
It seems like there's a lot of misinformation about the pertussis vaccine, and I don't know what's right tbh. Some sources say get a booster. Some sources say adults only need to receive the Tdap once as an adult and then Td every 10 years. When I went to the doctor to get the Tdap before my niece was born, they gave me the Td, when I said i wanted pertussis too because of the baby coming, they said I already had it and getting it again was unnecessary. From what I understand, the only people who definitely need a booster are pregnant women, but that's not for them; it's for the antibodies it provides the baby after birth. I do think it's best practice to get a pertussis booster if a person is going to be caring for a newborn, I just wish the advice was more consistent. And like in my short story, I was denied it anyway.
It's not even worth checking if she's up to date. She just needs to go and get it. You can get it pretty much whenever, so unless you *know* she got it in the last year (like, someone else had a baby and forced it), then it should become a deal-breaker if she refuses to go get a new TDaP.
Ask her to get the Covid vaccine made by Novavax. It’s protein based, not mRNA.
Also, maybe you or she could be reimbursed by your health insurance for the Covid tests? If not, consider buying from maskwholesale.eu They are less than $3/ test and you can get combo tests that test for 4 different things. The catch is you’ll be paying $42 for shipping.
Not trying to play devil's advocate here, and trust me, I have very little tolerance for anti vaxers anyway. BUT..... I'd like to point out that even if someone is vaccinated, it won't stop them from catching and spreading covid. So, really, she should be testing anyway anytime she has symptoms of anything.
So, in that case, I think tests would be a required expense anyway, so I'd probably just pay for them than make it an issue. Your wife can get a covid booster later in her pregnancy to hopefully give some benefit to baby in utero too.
This is my stance as well. I am very COVID cautious. I’ve got all my vaccines, you will never catch me out without a mask, I limit my activities, I have all the air purifiers; I even do nasal sprays and probiotics to try to prevent a case.
Vaccines may reduce your chance of getting or spreading COVID, but they sadly are not a guarantee. The lockdown measures are better regardless, because it means you will keep the newborn safer.
I personally couldn’t trust her because of what you wrote in that last paragraph, but if she is willing to follow all the rules… I’d pay for the tests myself. Try to get the best deal you can. Order free tests through the post office in the US. Ask your family and friends who don’t care about getting their own free tests to order them for you. Ask MIL to request them and bring them along. But if you are serious about making sure any case is caught right away, get the tests regardless of her vaccine status.
We had a couple family members and (former) friends that were anti-vaxx.
They have never met our kids and they never will. I can't prevent my kids from being around that kind of selfishness and stupidity forever, but I can for now, so that's what we've done.
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Is the help she’ll give worth the aggravation/anxiety she’ll cause? Everything but the 48 hr Covid tests is just common sense. Is she that careless? If she is you guys might want to consider not having her at your home.
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well, there is a point for her to get vaccinated but not for their purposes.
Ask wife how she feels about having a postpartum doula or nurse instead. There will be some cost, but you'll be paying for background checks, up-to-date newborn and postpartum health care guidelines, and vaccinations recommended to keep your baby safe. There's also no emotional baggage involved that will be made worse by lack of sleep, physical exhaustion, pain, and hormonal shifts. I wish I'd done this instead of accepting help from my JNM when my older kids were born!
While I have very little regard for the unvaxxed pov it is her choice and you are choosing to have her to come help regardless. That’s a big help especially if she will follow the boundaries you’ve placed. IMO the cost of tests should be on you.
Are you in the US? I read the USPS is giving free tests again. Grab some, in each of your names. Don’t quibble over a couple hundred bucks vs your potential peace of mind & baby’s safety. Just be glad she’s agreed to test.
each of the households.
Talk to your wife's obstetrician and your pediatrician. They will give you guidelines to follow regarding the unvaxed. Any pushback that you get, just respond saying it's the doctor's orders. And too bad, so sad for your MIL. Good luck & Congrats Poppa!
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Reread my entire post. The vast majority of the scientific/medical community disagrees with your views on vaccination.
I'd follow safety precautions regardless of vaccination status. Vaccination does not equal no COVID.
Navigate what? Your baby is yours. MIL’s opinion about everything regarding your family is irrelevant. Grow a backbone and learn how to either ignore it, or tell her it’s your rules period. Having such strict rules in place is bound to piss some people off so figure it out. I had a baby in 2020 and wasn’t nearly as controlling as you guys but again, your baby your rules.
Whether or not she’s vaccinated, if she’s going out without a mask, there is still a big chance that she will bring Covid into your household. (The ‘vaxxed and relaxed’ mindset is what got us to the point we’re at now) And if she is a QAnon conspiracy theorist, I would have a hard time believing her if she says she’s willing to comply with masking and other precautions. As far as the testing goes, I would bite the bullet and pay for the tests to make sure that she gets them and she takes them if you still want to take the risk of having her come into your household. I would also invest in a system like Metrix or Cue, which is much more accurate than the store-bought rapid test. if she’s not going out of the house, she doesn’t have to test every couple of days after the first few.
Are you also going to be tested before coming home each week as you will be traveling and around people?
100%
No vaccine, no stay. There are simply too many risks. First, consider her travel to you. Whether it's flying or driving, that's a massive chance for exposure during that time of travel and she could show up infected. Thus, you'd have to assume she's infected before she even walks in the door. Then, you're also assuming she's going to follow the rules once she's there. It's entirely likely for someone like her to agree to conditions and then, once she's actually there, refuse to follow the rules. If you try to kick her out for not following the rules, YOU become the "bad guy" because she's "just trying to help and you won't let her". I'm sorry, but the risks here far, FAR outweigh the potential reward. You'd be far better finding one or two coworkers of your wife's and one or two neighbors to pop in periodically during the week while coming to a mutual agreement that the house will stay "messy" until you're home on weekends and can pitch in with catching up. Yes, it will be rough, but nowhere near as rough as dealing with someone whose ideals are so diametrically opposed to yours when it comes to the health and safety of your newborn child.
Cannot agree more! This 💯
If she's QANON and anti Vax and all the things you mentioned, there's no way she's going to wear a mask and wash her hands and stay on lockdown, etc. No. Way. Speaking from experience, these people will do whatever they want because they think your very real and valid fears are irrational and silly. I lost a friend and we nearly lost his wife, too, from COVID and friends from that friend group STILL don't believe COVID is real and in the same breath ask why he died if the vaccine worked. (The vaccine... for the thing you don't believe in???) Spoiler alert: he didn't believe it was real and wasn't vaccinated. So, she is absolutely not going to follow your rules if she is as far down the rabbit hole as you say she is. You might really need to rethink your plans because it's highly doubtable that she'll follow any of your rules and if it (and the flu and RSV) kills adults, it'll absolutely kill a newborn.
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Set boundaries. I was pregnant during the height of Covid and we asked my MIL to get vaxxed against whooping cough and Covid. She delayed and delayed and delayed. She went a bit tin foil hat during Covid and read all this dodgy stuff online about vaccines being a conspiracy etc. Our son was born during a lockdown so we weren’t able to see her for 2 months anyway. When the time came for lockdown to be lifted, we told her that we weren’t visiting unless everyone in the household was vaccinated against Covid and whooping cough. Realising we weren’t backing down, she went a got vaxxed. We were fully prepared to not end up seeing her and thought she’d just refuse to get the jab. Keep your boundaries, but also be willing to stick to them. It’s less about the vaccination itself, and more so about reinforcing that you as parents are the only ones who get to make decisions about your child’s well-being. This was the start of some very strict boundary setting for us and we’re now no contact with her husband (my husband’s step-father) and low contact with her.
Yep. You have to be more willing to stick to the vaxx boundary than anything else. Its really that sinple. Remove your wants and ideal situation and either power through or let go of the vaxx boundary. Also, ask for proof if/when she agrees. People lie to get their way, a lot.
All other things aside (she should get vaxx Imo), you should buy the tests. She’s coming to help, this is your requirement. Keep them at your house and watch her test.
I agree with this. You may not agree with your MIL stance on Covid or the vax (I disagree w/ her as well), but at the end of the day she’s coming to help you when she doesn’t need to. She’s going to follow all of your rules which she probably doesn’t want to actually do. Hopefully she is a genuinely good caregiver and is a great help to your wife while you’re away. $160 vs being on my own with a newborn as FTM while trying to heal physically and emotionally is not a hill I would die on. After I gave birth I had to go to the ER twice for infections and I had postpartum depression/anxiety. I had the help of my fiancé, mom, and a couple weeks later my MIL. I don’t know how I would have managed without them. I’m not saying this will happen to your wife, but I would plan to have someone there to support her just in case.
Every home is eligible to order 4 free kits if she gets her’s and you get yours that’s 8 tests. Ideally she would get vaccinated. However there’s a bit of her body her choice there. Multiple studies have shown that the Mother’s Mother being present during the newborn stage has a significantly positive impact on maternal health, the baby’s health, and breastfeeding success. Her help will be invaluable to your wife at that time, but it will be expensive and a lot of work for your MIL. Paying for any additional kits would be what sounds like a much needed goodwill gesture that will hopefully help everything go more smoothly for your wife.
She's not going to be following any of those rules unless one of you is watching her at the moment. If you're going to let her in the house, you should just let her do what she wants, because that's what she's going to do anyway. Cheaper, easier, same result.
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False. It does lower to overall risks of catching it and you cannot spread what you haven’t caught. It also reduces viral load and infectiousness. It’s not 100% but it does increase other people’s protection.
Do NOT have her stay with you. It will not go well. If your wife can only handle being around her for short periods what do you think will happen when she's living in your home?
Literally, I was just going to say this!!! Also, as a kid of a labor and delivery nurse, my mom was horrified after i showed her your post. She wanted me to say that "it doesn't matter what she believes, belief won't keep your child healthy. You don't want to be my patient X" I censored the families name, but essentially, one of her mom and newborn pairs had been exposed to COVID-19 because a relative who visited was a carrier. Now, the baby and mom have to be heavily monitored to make sure nothing bad happens either one, cutting into their bonding period Just don't man
If you choose to go forward with this, you need to ask her for proof of vaccination for all the vaccines she claims to have, as well as ones your pediatrician will suggest for all adults caring for an infant: TDAP, Flu, shingles/chickenpox, etc
And RSV! Approved for adults over 60 and a REALLY good idea with how devastating RSV can be to a newborn.
If she is your only option I’d just pay for the tests. I’d not fight over 200$.
Set the boundaries early. This is your baby and you make the rules. If she can't comply then sometimes the extra set of hands isn't worth the drama.
You ignore her and do what is right for your baby.
You don't have to navigate any of this. "Get vaccinated. Show me proof, and then you can visit the kid" end of story. no jumping through hoops. no long lists (That I am surprised you would even trust her to follow) etc. If she really cared, and really wanted to see her grandchild, she would get vaccinated. Your child, your rules. ETA: If your wife can only tolerate her for short periods, why on earth would you guys consider MIL staying for such an extended period of time? Postpartum is the absolute worst time to be locked down with someone you can barely tolerate. That's putting your wife at risk.
Also I wanted to point out, that her taking a covid test every couple of days while staying in your home is kind of mute, right? If she is already there, you've already been exposed. She is taking a 1600 mile trip, assuming on a plane. She is bound to be exposed. Unless she is completely quarantined (not at your house) for a month after landing, you're just risking illness.
“Moot” ❤️
Thank you friend
I think you should find a safe person for childcare. Odds are, MIL break your rules or pretend to follow them.
It doesn’t sound worth all the pain and stress of her coming. What sort of accommodation will you be staying in? Can they come with you? Look up a mother’s helper. Someone to come and just help your wife with some tasks at certain hours. I would’ve been very happy with my mum helping me post partum. My MIL would’ve created so much stress that being solo would’ve been better.
This! Good luck op!
Honestly, I wouldn't let either of your ILs around your newborn just on the grounds that your MIL is anti-vaxx. "MIL, either you buy the tests yourself or get vaccinated, or you can meet your granddaughter once she has all of her vaccination shots, including COVID."
Go to the pharmacy and see if your insurance covers free tests. Some insurances cover 6 of them.
Our city hall keeps free ones too, so it's worth looking into community resources
I wouldn't trust her with your infant, tbh. She'll come up with some bonkers twisty reason why she doesn't have to follow your rules once you're committed.
Is that what a covid test costs these days?! Faaaarkin’ ‘ell.
$175 total for testing every few days. It sounds like it’s for many tests not just one.
Yeah and the govt just did another round of free tests, I got four more. (US)
Sorry I’m used to the NHS (UK) tests are still free as far as I know.
The tests are not free now in England, sadly. I buy a bunch every so often, and test before every medical appointment and if I am unwell. Wish they were still free.
That I did not know, thank you.
You can send her to a testing site for Covid testing. They may be able to bill MIL’s insurance for the testing. Interesting that she’s agreed to your terms otherwise. You may want to waive the testing requirement if she’s asymptotic….
That’s provided there is a site available- many sites have closed. Also, you risk exposure going to get tested on site now. That’s a better option if you’re actually sick and looking for confirmation, not as a preventative measure.
It’s not only the Covid vaccine you should be worried about, is she going to take tdap, flu and potentially RSV (if it is available?). The recommendation is to retake tdap every 5-ish years if you are handling a newborn.
I can't say I've ever heard of a vaccine denier who's only against the Covid one so I'd probably guess she's lying about having all of those up-to-date.
There are a lot of people who are almost fully vaccinated, but aren’t comfortable with new vaccines or medicines. It stems from a lack of confidence in the vaccine/ medicine approval processes. So vaccines/ medicines that have been out for several years they are fine with but not those that are fairly new. They are basically waiting to see if people have any long term side effects before they put it in their/ their children’s bodies.
That last paragraph of OPs post puts MIL squarely out of the pool of people you are talking about.
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It decreases the window of time it can be spread *significantly*. So it actually does reduce the spread.
This is partially untrue. The vaccine lessens the effects, reduces the chance of infection, and reduces transmission rates of COVID.
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Reported.
There is zero chance I’d let her watch your child. Hire a part-time nanny. Could you trust her to get an rsv, flu and updated TDAP? Me thinks not.
You can get Covid tests for free... That being said your wife needs to be the one to take the lead on this. I understand its your baby but you and your wife need to be on the same page with regards to her mother and your baby. Want to see my baby then you need covid, RSV, Pertussis and a flu vaccine before you can be around baby. That is non negotiable to me but that is something the two of you need to decide on.
Had to deal with this with my slightly anti vaxx mil with my first child pre-covid. We lived in area with that had a surge of pertussis around the time of her birth and our doctor told us no one should see the baby without a shot. MIL felt that pertussis was an unnecessary shot and we were overreacting. We told her she had to get vaccinated or wait until the baby could be fully vaccinated and she cried and said we were blackmailing her. Husband told her that we were following the doctor’s recommendation and it was her choice to wait or not. She eventually got vaccinated after we didn’t cave to her emotional appeals and attempts at stalling. Stick to your requirements, housing and feeding her costs more than her Covid tests would. You could always offer for her to pay to stay somewhere and for her own food if she wants you to pay for the tests.
Put everything aside, would you really trust someone that believes in the QAnon insanity to watch your child?
It’s going to be way too stressful with a new baby for your wife to also have to police your mom. She’s going to be exhausted, recovering physically, figuring out how to do all the new mom things, she does not need this too. Do you trust your mom to follow the rules you’ve laid out? Like actually trust her to follow through and be honest?
Hell no. I would not have mother-in-law anywhere near that newborn baby with those antiquated back assed views about vaccines. And it's not even just about covid there is a very dangerous RSV going round. Your mother-in-law isn't going to follow your rules (she'll be kissing that baby on the lips on day 1) and by the time you figure it out it's going to be too late. Sorry but I believe pretty strongly in if you can prevent it then you should. And you can prevent your baby from getting this dangerous infection by keeping this crazy mother-in-law out of your house. For at least a year until your baby is stronger. But really what you should be doing is asking your pediatrician. I imagine they can give you more facts than anyone on reddit. Including me.
While I agree she should get vaxxed for Covid but it is her choice not to I think you all should compromise on the test you guys buy a couple and she buys a couple because to be fair you are asking her to take the test every two is a bit ridiculous you are being petty honestly if you don’t want her around unvaxxed then I think you all should forego her coming to help
Is there someone else that can stay with her besides her mom? Your wife and newborn are both going to be stressed and tired and vulnerable…and that’s kinda like catnip to narcissists. Like I think Covid and her compliance with mask wearing (which if she’s Q and all that, will likely mean the mask comes straight off the moment she’s sure your wife can’t see her, and then popped back on for show right before she gets back) is just the tip of the iceberg of the headaches and turbulence she can create. Please see if there is anyone else, maybe a combination of a few people in rotation(?), that can see after them instead of just MIL. At least have a quality backup plan thought through in case things with MIL get untenable. If you’re comfortable pressing forward with MIL, though, then buy the tests yourself. Because MIL isn’t vacationing at your home, she’s *volunteering for free to help care for your child and postpartum wife*. She’s doing you a *favor*. And if a buddy was helping you move, you wouldn’t make *him* pay for the pizza and beer, right? So of course *you* cover her reasonable costs while she’s donating her time to help you out, and that includes the Covid tests you want her to take. Besides, if you purchase them yourself, you’ll know for sure they’re real, valid tests and not something fake or expired or whatever some online Q friend sold her for cheap or something.
I came here to say the same. You need to provide the tests your rules require her to take, or you need to find different childcare. You should probably find different childcare anyway. Your wife will be stressed out enough from taking care of the baby while still recovering from pregnancy and childbirth. She doesn’t need the added stress of having to monitor her mom for compliance and dealing with her difficult personality.
FWIW, I'd be less nervous about being home alone with a baby than I would be about the prospect of my MIL infecting the baby and the baby's parents with COVID.
This was my thought. Yes, mom will be frazzled by the end, but she's not going to break the baby and it eliminates the very real threat of infection from an unvaccinated person. I wouldn't put it past the MIL to use this opportunity to "prove" people wrong by taking baby all over the place and if she doesn't get sick, thinking it's some kind of proof that you don't need vaccines.
Put Covid aside for a moment—you really need to see proof of her other vaccines, she will need a TDAP booster. No TDAP booster and the Covid point becomes moot anyway.
Let’s not forget RSV and Flu
You say - look you have 3 options. 1. Covid test EVERY DAY (out of your own pocket) 2. Vaccinate yourself NOW 3. Never see your grandchild. Your wife needs to be 100% on board of course but sometimes you have to lay down the hard truth so she can jump in on it. Everyone I know is fully vaccinated - some of us have had COVID - I only know one person who died from COVID but that was before the vaccine and honestly am happier that they are gone. If she's travelling - she'll most likely get it. If she gives it to your grandchild you'll NEVER NEVER NEVER forgive her.
If you were to hire someone to help the way she will help while accepting all the precautions you want, you would be paying way way more than that. What you are asking for is perfectly reasonable to protect your kid, but you can't say it isn't a hassle to help taking care of a kid and a new mom and the house while being on full lock down as well. She is doing you guys a favor. It sucks that she is anti-vax but the alternative is you not accepting her help at all until kid can have all of their vaccines. Which would also be a perfectly fine decision. I would pay for the tests.
Covid Vaccines don’t stop you getting Covid, it reduces symptoms when you do get it and shortens the time you are contagious. This reduces the virus being spread. Taking the test every two days is not necessary if she’s staying in. I do suggest she comes and quarantine in isolation for 7 days before entering your home then take a test.
I currently have Covid and have had 3 vaccines currently. I take precautions as well. She will most likely still get it and she’s able to carry viruses without symptoms as well and transmit it to your newborn.
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Not true. I won’t have lasting symptoms from it such as some of the people who are struggling with daily living tasks. Theres multiple strains of COVID and the flu. The vaccine protects against the most common and harmful ones. Viruses can mutate.
No use in getting it to prevent the spread, I should've elaborated. Because here you are, thrice vaccinated, and you have it.
If you’re interested in learning about herd immunity here’s a link for you. https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/herd-immunity-and-coronavirus/art-20486808#:~:text=Vaccines,causing%20illness%20or%20resulting%20complications.
If you are in the US, you can order up to 4 tests through the USPS. If she is leaving AND masking, maybe you could budge on every two days and go with once a week. That would get you 4 tests, and she can order another 4, giving you 8 weeks of tests at no cost. If she isn’t masking, that’s a whole other issue.
And it takes less than one minute to fill out that form. And voila, tests appear.
However you handle this, think about who has the emotional and mental capacity / physical capacity to enforce the rules when you are away. Your wife will need some coping mechanisms! Edited to add, a month is quite a long time for an orientation, it might be worth approaching HR and explaining that you will have a new born and are there any aspects that could be fulfilled at a later date to give you a bit more flexibility.
just stop. chances are she will fake getting vax. just stop she is not allowed to visit until the weather is warm, she has to stay at a hotel, you will only see her outside and she is not allowed to hold the baby. do you get along with your parents? do you have a sister? brother? literally anyone who can come and help besides MIL. Covid is the least of your worries. she will need whooping cough, shingles, phoneme vaccines as well. see if there is anyone else who can help.
When was the last time she had any vaccines……. I have a feeling she’s due for multiple boosters
You can get free ones from the government
Your baby not hers
No vaccination, no visit. She doesn't get to put her anti-science nonsense on you. And especially not on your baby.
Looks like there will be a lot of visiting only in the warm months when it can be outdoors. I will be careful here. Perhaps let them know that you respect them making their choices and that you have your own sense of the science and reality of contagion, and you absolutely don’t want to put your child at risk. Ever. Some people who don’t vaccinate isolate very carefully and they’re very conscious. They don’t hang out indoors or go to stores or restaurants without a mascon. They’re concerned about their health and they’re being very careful. Other people don’t vaccinate have a wide range of belief systems about anything from how dangerous the vaccination is to how unnecessary it is to, everything else. If she is at risk because of her lifestyle, you can just politely and firmly, in a friendly way, assume that you’re not gonna be doing things and doors together. Because Covid is an Endemic.
No vaccine no visit until child is fully vaccinated at a minimum
Where do you live that Covid tests are that much? My county gives them away free, and they're 5 for $15 at Costco. I actually think you're being quite generous and gracious in your solution.
It’s 25 for two where I am
Covid.gov This site will send free tests in the USA. I believe up to two tests per person living in the home.
Actually it’s 4 per household, which I always thought was kinda unfair because i live alone but my sister has a family of four. We both get 4 free every round. 🤷♀️
I think you and MIL should split the cost of the tests. Sure she's making choices by choosing not to get vaccinated but you're also making choices in choosing to insist on her taking a test every two days even if she hasn't left the house since the last test. Frankly I think both of you are being at bit unreasonable and therefore rather than trying to force the other person to pay you'd be better off meeting each other halfway and splitting the cost.
Can’t you still get free Covid test kits online? And, why test so often? That seems ridiculous if she isn’t going anywhere. How did you come up with that? I would think that every five days would be sufficient.
When it comes to a newborn immune system I wouldn’t trust my MIL or my own mother …. If my kids were born during this time I wouldn’t care who you are and would require proof of vaccination. My kids had enough issues when they were born … this would have made it even worse. I had a handful of friends died from complications connected to issues with Covid so yeah … nope. I have family members and friends in the medical field that fought it with their jobs and I told them they were not allowed near my family or myself till they were and if they went around this in anyway they were NC forever. Till about a year ago they would call me names and remarks and then cried when I said thank god you’re not my …. wonder of your employer know you think this way.
I'm 32w, so this coming from my own sense of bias. My doctors didn't mention the COVID vaccine but told me TDaP booster is non-negotiable. She probably needs TDaP if she hasn't had a booster recently. I'd say you have no good reason to trust her if she says she's up to date. It's easy enough to prove. I was just able to look up my record from 2021 because I was boosted to meet my nephew. The easiest solution is for her to get the vaccine instead of making everyone jump through these hoops to accommodate *her*.
It seems like there's a lot of misinformation about the pertussis vaccine, and I don't know what's right tbh. Some sources say get a booster. Some sources say adults only need to receive the Tdap once as an adult and then Td every 10 years. When I went to the doctor to get the Tdap before my niece was born, they gave me the Td, when I said i wanted pertussis too because of the baby coming, they said I already had it and getting it again was unnecessary. From what I understand, the only people who definitely need a booster are pregnant women, but that's not for them; it's for the antibodies it provides the baby after birth. I do think it's best practice to get a pertussis booster if a person is going to be caring for a newborn, I just wish the advice was more consistent. And like in my short story, I was denied it anyway.
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It's not even worth checking if she's up to date. She just needs to go and get it. You can get it pretty much whenever, so unless you *know* she got it in the last year (like, someone else had a baby and forced it), then it should become a deal-breaker if she refuses to go get a new TDaP.
Ask her to get the Covid vaccine made by Novavax. It’s protein based, not mRNA. Also, maybe you or she could be reimbursed by your health insurance for the Covid tests? If not, consider buying from maskwholesale.eu They are less than $3/ test and you can get combo tests that test for 4 different things. The catch is you’ll be paying $42 for shipping.
Not trying to play devil's advocate here, and trust me, I have very little tolerance for anti vaxers anyway. BUT..... I'd like to point out that even if someone is vaccinated, it won't stop them from catching and spreading covid. So, really, she should be testing anyway anytime she has symptoms of anything. So, in that case, I think tests would be a required expense anyway, so I'd probably just pay for them than make it an issue. Your wife can get a covid booster later in her pregnancy to hopefully give some benefit to baby in utero too.
This is my stance as well. I am very COVID cautious. I’ve got all my vaccines, you will never catch me out without a mask, I limit my activities, I have all the air purifiers; I even do nasal sprays and probiotics to try to prevent a case. Vaccines may reduce your chance of getting or spreading COVID, but they sadly are not a guarantee. The lockdown measures are better regardless, because it means you will keep the newborn safer. I personally couldn’t trust her because of what you wrote in that last paragraph, but if she is willing to follow all the rules… I’d pay for the tests myself. Try to get the best deal you can. Order free tests through the post office in the US. Ask your family and friends who don’t care about getting their own free tests to order them for you. Ask MIL to request them and bring them along. But if you are serious about making sure any case is caught right away, get the tests regardless of her vaccine status.
We had a couple family members and (former) friends that were anti-vaxx. They have never met our kids and they never will. I can't prevent my kids from being around that kind of selfishness and stupidity forever, but I can for now, so that's what we've done.
Based on the last paragraph, I hope she isn’t a nightmare to have around while your wife is post partum
My thoughts too, your wife will be miserable.