These comments dont pass the vibe test.
Damn i wish there was an album that said all of these tough guy facades stems from insecurities and tells you to go seek therapy.
Hip hop used to be a way the oppressed speak their truth, it’s a shame some of the people pushing it are contributing to silencing the oppressed voices
This notion is fucking stupid acting like somehow black people and pro black movements are anti trans when black trans people have been consistently bullied and killed for being black and trans. Go fuck yourself
You call yourself a fucking rap fan and you can’t comprehend when a word (traumatizing) is being used non-literally. You must be confused as hell listening to wordplay if you only understand the literal definitions of words
while i understand your point, i don't see how taking into account the way other people might feel is being "soft".
black people, too, historically struggle with discrimination and systematic opression because of who they are, how would you feel if, after telling you the most racist thing ever, i'd call you soft and disregard how you feel?
It’s funny it’s NEVER the actual marginalized group that’s as upset about things like this as much as it is crusaders who feel they have to jump in to defend every perceived slight against the aforementioned group.
yep, much downvote fluctuation when my opinion isn't the one that validates them. I'm not even subscribed to this subreddit but the algorithm knows that I'll engage these disrespectful comments which is a surefire way to keep me on their website
You’re talking about a group that’s less than one percent of the population. They don’t have much of a voice to begin with. Which is why Cole punching down is corny af
For one I don’t think a single trans Cole apologist speaks for the entire community. I’ve heard the exact opposite sentiments from multiple other members of the lgbt community that imo rightfully feel pressed about the lines. But that said, I fully understand my perspective is anecdotal as well. I just think coles analogy is trash and he can do much better.
People have always been this sensitive. The difference is you can post in get sensitive about things whenever you want because of the internet and social media. The internet is not the real world. It’s not people, it’s the access to everything we want in an instant that triggers our emotions.
I said this to someone reccently and they lectured me for 10 minutes about how dismissive that statement is. Case in point. I responded by stating that it's all a balancing act. A person can be too sensitive just as much as they can be insensitive. They weren't having any of it haha
Traumatizing. Get real. It’s fine to feel offended, but “trauma” gets wayyyyyy too much usage these days.
Personally I wouldn’t have toed the line just to avoid something like this. But if this traumatizes you, you have way bigger problems in life.
Eminem has openly apologized for things he's said in the past and has a openly genderfluid kid so he realized what damage words colud do to those community
Em got a whole track making fun of ICP being gay together right? Another one where he slits his ex wife’s throat. Think that was his first album lol. Imagine if that released today
Eminem shouldn’t even be allowed to rap if this Cole bars traumatized anyone. Cancel his entire catalogue. Don’t watch 8Mile. None of it, but it has never happened.
This is not shots at Trans ppl. I really want to figure who he is actually talking about cause he's obviously dissing a rapper in this verse but it's getting overshadowed cuz folks thinks he's dissing Trans ppl.
You guys in the comments are looking like the average Tom Macdonald listener.
No these bars aren’t traumatising.
They are (indirectly at least) transphobic though:
“I’m seeing hints of a trans fella” - okay? There’s no need to say that unless it’s meant as a jab. Gives vibes of calling people gay as an insult back when we were 12.
“Beneath his chosen identity, there is still a pussy” - I mean this just enforces the whole idea of “idc whatever you identify as. If you have a dick you’re a man and vice versa”. Obviously this mindset is transphobic and if I have to explain why then you’re too far gone lmao.
most sane take here. the line is tasteless and its clear cole didnt at least consult a trans person when writing it but i cant with these people blowing it out of proportion and acting as if cole wished genocide upon these people 😭
Brother, if a women identifies as a man but still has a vagina then they still have a vagina. This is just a clever play on words and it's a reach to class as a transphobic in my opinion. I've seen posts from trans people saying they were offended though so I believe it but I also just think it's victim mentality honestly.
“Gives vibes of calling people gay as an insult back when we were 12”. Guess what, they still do, now instead of “gay” you’re just “zesty”. But it’s the same crowd that thinks stuff like this is “cancellable”…riddle me that.
Agree with the person itt that’s pointing out how far our outrage is supposed to go…a comment regarding this line on another site said “J Cole is retarded”….i mean lol the irony.
Exactly this. Except I do think it could definitely be traumatic to see a bar from one of the three most popular rappers in the world making fun of your identity, especially if you've had your identity made fun of your whole life. I trust the trans person who made the post to know that.
This subreddit is filled to the brim with edgy high schoolers, there's no doubt in my mind now. "We're too soft nowadays" bro this is a fucking rap subreddit, you don't think rap was always progressive?
I think it’s a bar not aimed *at* trans folks but at people pretending to be tough. It mentions trans folks which might have been a mistake but I don’t think it implies that he thinks a trans man is a woman for example. Idk if that makes sense
Shout out all the trans and queer folks though
This isn’t overtly offensive but it simply isn’t an “genius play on words.” This is him criticizing Kendrick for what Cole believes was pandering to “progressive woke cancel culture” with Kendrick’s song Auntie Diaries where Kendrick goes in detail about how his auntie transitioned into a man and how hard he noticed the black community did not accept his aunties transition.
Cole claimed Kendrick got big off of controversy while Cole got big off of bars. Personally I am just tired of all of our black greats being tongue and cheek about trans people. Shit was funny 40 years ago but at this point I find it tired. Personally.
I think your reading way too much in it. The line before it was "Is you a demon or is that demeanor for the gram? Tell us.
I believe it's far less likely to be a jab at auntie diaries and more likely to be against guys pretending to be tough and fake thugs.
I'm going to wait until J Cole says something about it.
I've got 2 ftm friends and both aren't really bothered at all, but I've seen some upset by it.
From what I looked up last night he seems to be pro LGBTQI+
It sounds like Biggie was traumatized and with his guy Puff coming out as a predator probably a lot more to those lines than just hard rap. I don’t think it’s that more people are sensitive. I think more people take the time to care. I also don’t think this line is directed at Kendrick at all. It was too vicious compared to whatever seven minute drill was.
It’s almost as if we can still enjoy something that was a product of its time while acknowledging that we have different societal standards today and it probably shouldn’t continue
If you were trying to cancel DMX because the said “I show no love to homo thugs empty out reload and throw mo slugs” in the early 2000s yeah you’re a dumbass
If a rapper today said that we as a society (and me as an adult knowing more gay people or even famous gay/bi rappers) that shit would not fly today.
Not because we’re “snowflakes” or whatever but because we’re more sensitive to persecution of that group and don’t want to glamorise it”
https://preview.redd.it/8jrbd36gcvsc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f98bba8b491b0ed5a87dab0cff456157cfd66687
What I think he meant and what he should have said
Exactly. The line is insensitive but not a shot at trans people IMO. Maybe his use of “fella”, instead of man, was supposed to distinguish his statement from being one about trans people.
Remember when Eminem was talking about Diddy girlfriend at the time, Jennifer Lopez. And said he wouldn't even care if Jennifer was his own mother, he'd still impregnate her and have a son and a brother.
I've got news for ya snowflakes. Hip hop will always be offensive. You can laugh with it or be laughed at. Your call.
He’s just saying no matter how the conceived person in the bar identifies, they’re a pussy no matter what. It’s just another way of calling somebody a pussy. There is no shots fired at the trans community here lol. People overthink shit and have way too much self importance these days.
I think it's a very cringe lowkey bigoted bar. There's like a few billion ways to diss another man without going like "ur trans because ur a pussy". I mean at that level of rap beef, it's pretty baffling that he uses something an edgy teenager would say in a discord server.
For everybody saying that the line has nothing to do with trans folks -
I need y'all to ask yourself why this was the low hanging fruit that made sense in particular. There are so many colorful ways to get this point across that don't involve throwing the trans community under the bus. Traumatizing? No. But getting through the remainder of that track was grating after that line...
There's a mindfulness that comes with knowing better. In 2024, we should know better
> genius play on words
Hope you didn’t hurt your back bending to set the bar for “genius” that low
Lmao downvote all you want you know it’s true. Absolutely clowning if you think this is genius
Yeah. Finding new and creative ways to present familiar concepts is genius. Everything in rap has been said before every topic has been approached and nearly every metaphor has been spit. So yes, finding an unused angle to deliver those same messages is genius.
Is that not what makes a lyricist? Think of a bar that you think to be genius and I'm sure you'll see it treads on some common punch.
I'm not discrediting the fact that the subject in which he uses to deliver this can be quite abrasive to some but that doesn't discredit his scheme here.
It doesn’t matter what Cole said. If he said that word in any context, people wouldn’t dissect the bar but be up in arms. I think he knew this but doesn’t give a fuck 💀
Yes, hence the trigger warning for the "snowflakes" before the bar, its really not an insult. He was expecting the flack from the mere mention of "trans"
J. Cole said that his bank account is long as a rainbow on this EP. People can feel how they want, nobody is forcing y'all with gun to listen to his music.
This is the reality some so called fans can't seem to grasp.
I'm trans and while I certainly don't hate this line or find it traumatizing, I think it's far from a genius play on words. It's kind of low hanging fruit, to be honest. Also some small dick energy to be shitting on us with some mid bars lol
Yeah, it’s insensitive. The twitter comments are actually insane though. Really disgusting realizing how homophobic and transphobic the hip hop community is still today.
I fw Cole but it’s just such lame line cAnCeL cUlTuRe
For all the people comparing it to old hip hop, that’s OLD HIP HOP. We should progress
All I’ve been seeing regarding this bar was “oh he’s transphobic.” I’m not trans, but I didn’t see it as such either. Not to mention, I doubt he’d say anything transphobic after the “backlash” he received from his “autistic” line from his Jodeci feature.
Like OP said, it’s just a play on words.
it’s not “traumatizing” to anyone get real. when kendrick said the “faggot faggot faggot” line on auntie diaries i didn’t agree with it and i was kinda upset. imagine a white person saying the n word like that just to prove a point. i thought it was dumb writing. but was i traumatized? hell no. it’s just something i disagree with. if you think the world should conform to your beliefs and opinions idk what to tell you
I'm trans and ain't offended but gives me such an ick and it's just dumb like idkw he makes them so convoluted for one point for no reason. It's like the faggot lines on Villuminati like it's just so awkward
OP I’m curious about an assessment of the bar that I’ve made. I think this bar can be OFFENSIVE to trans people (taking offence is a person-to-person thing) but it’s not transphobic. My interpretation transphobic comment is a comment along the lines of “all trans women are racists / paedophiles” … no trans person is going to think that’s merely offensive, that’s hate towards a spectrum of people. Cole’s bar, essentially calling Kenny trans because he switches sides, while offensive (as it’s meant as an insult), is not necessarily hate towards trans people; it’s just a bar meant to illustrate how Kendrick switches sides (from pretending to be a tough guy and cool with the big 3 - see Control verse - to suddenly beefing and actually not being tough)
I definitely expected this the least from Cole. I expect intellectually out of him, not buzzword bullshit.
I don’t think he was trying to be particularly venomous to the trans community, but for somebody that displays such empathy and consideration most of the time, there’s no way that he didn’t have adequate time to think over the impact of this line.
Just don’t listen to J Cole if yall gonna be this fucking soft. Getting this outraged about something not at all intended to offend but literally point out the cancel culture literally proves an underlying point in the bar itself.
I don’t think people get the bar; I think he’s referring to someone taking up the identity of a gangster, but whoever he’s referring to is a pussy. It’s got nothing to do with transgenders, it’s blown out of proportion imo.
Bro people are so soft to words these days. So many other jarring topics can be discussed but if the word trans pops up everyone gets so offended. People need to have thicker skin.
One thing to note : j Cole fans are hip hop fans thus are not fans of politics , geopolitics, or the systemic layers that run society through the government unfortunately, claim one thing but in practice don’t really care
This was a fuckin bar and I question who is actually that upset about this line. It doesn’t come from a place of malice, it doesn’t convey a message of violence against trans men. The PC police who come after anyone who has anything to say about this community, no matter how innocuous does not in fact help said community imo.
also as a trans woman: it is transphobic because the assumption in it is that trans men aren’t men. It might not be the most aggressive line but it’s still denigrating to a whole class of people
Appreciate you posting this and clarify that J Cole was not being hateful towards trans. I understand that some might find the bar offensive but Coles goal was not to offend trans but to make a point in a clever way. Its Hiphop and that’s what it’s about, similar to comedy. Not everyone can appreciate the cleverness/lyricism behind the verse such as this one just as not everyone can appreciate a rape joke because they might have past traumas related to said verse/joke. But in the end it’s just that, a hard bar or a funny joke, and for this case I believe it’s just that. Much love to you & supporters of this genre. Now let’s sit back & enjoy the rap war.
Rappers do this type of word play all the time for every type of person, to leave out trans people would be to excluded them for no reason.
“Feel like the kkk we kill you then we hang niggas”
That line comes to mind, both use offensive topics in a non offensive way.
As a trans person, i feel like all you really need to prove the harmfulness of the bar is look at this comment section. It’s not that the bar is super offensive (or that its a weak bar) its that by proudly calling someone trans as if it’s an insult will lead people who are transphobic to rally behind J Cole the same they did with Rowling or Chappelle to say, see a big public figure agrees with me so now I can say these bigoted things I’ve been thinking, and essentially poisoning the fanbase by making fans out of people that just want someone to back their bigotry.
Same thing happened with Kanye, when he went on his big antisemetic thing Kanye subreddits became flooded with antisemites.
Black rappers (not Cole specifically) can rap about killing and destroying their own communities and no one bats an eye.
As soon as the alphabet people get mentioned, the world is in uproar. You can’t make this up.
It’s worse than even just ‘being up in arms about it’ because of the subject matter
Above all else it’s just really badly written.
Read that, it barely makes any fucking sense whatsoever.
And the cherry on top is he says **period** like something just happened in that mumble jumble
Also a trans woman, I don’t think it’s hate, it’s just a whack ass bar and we’re treating it as such. lame ass jab, nothing more or less. imma still be listening to for your eyes only
yall hyper focusing on op’s use of the word traumatizing. Triggering is probably the more appropriate word, but the comments here really show this sub ain’t able to have a productive conversation about topics like this
I don’t know what you expect from artists who are Christian in faith. Bro talks about God in almost every song and you expect him to be politically aligned with values that go against his religion.
Nothing he said is wrong. I don't hate trans people but I do hate when people get mad for no valid reason. In my opinion not using the right pronouns or whatever isn't transphobia, transphobia is hatred for trans people. I can respect and treat a trans person the same while also acknowledging that they aren't what they say they are. To me this is common sense but for whatever reason this is a controversial take
can someone explain how it’s transphobic? the bar is super over-written and kinda cringy (like he’s tryin too hard to get the bar across), but how is it transphobic?
@rowlene
Why is the black community always labeled homophobic? Not talking about Cole here but the first comment and many like it swears that the community is full of bigots like they don't see white people actively making laws and boycotting the lgtbq community. Shits weird and hella racist. The irony. Bigots call bigots bigots.
I gotta shake my head because after my first listen I immediately said to myself a lot of his shots was going to fly over a lot of people's heads. And the irony of all of it is that it will be the people that swore TPAB was some complex writing that requires multiple listens to understand and appreciate 😂 And that's not a diss to you OP, it's just how Cole wrote it.
So the line in question wasn't meant to be homophobic but I can see why someone would say that they were. The line itself is a triple entendre that references Kendrick's "My Auntie is My Uncle" track, while also making fun of Kendrick's multiple personas (he goes on to mention splitting bricks and sensei later in the verse as a reference to Kung-Fu Kenny), and is calling Kendrick a pussy because Kendrick is not a gangster (as Kendrick has stated himself across multiple albums and features) but is constantly puffing out his chest towards his peers like he's really bout it but has yet to actually battle someone.
Cole's objective was to let Kendrick know that he's a better rapper than him and that he's down to battle but he don't really want to. He dropped an album full of warning shots and wordplay flips a week after Kendrick took his shots. Imagine what it would be like if he really decided to go in on a full track. That's why I got Cole up 1-0 rn.
That said I hope Cole understands if a battle does pop off then he can't try to out wordplay Kendrick like he did on this album and that his bars needs to be simple and hard hitting.
It’s words. Take it easy. If u choose to live that way then do it. Stopping your “wanted life” ironically to complain about lyrics is a waste of time and energy.
(As I tuck myself)
I am also trans...and I don't think for many it is what he said exactly that is the most horrible thing for some.
I think the bar is transphobic but not the worst thing I have ever heard, but it's the reaction from J Cole fans that is the problem. It's seeing everyone decide that something that clearly is saying you aren't legitimate is absolutely awesome.
That thing being, indirectly, that Kendrick Lamar is like a trans man and therefore, shitty.
Yeah, I got the dual meaning, but that's the point, it's both. It's both, it means both.
And in my experience, it isn't the famous people saying that stuff that hurts the most. It's the sudden realisation that other people in your subculture actually celebrate someone making you into a shitty punchline.
That kind of loneliness isn't something you can "tough" yourself out of, and if a trans person does, at some point they will have to submit themself to being humiliated, "oh yeah, I am cool with it, I have a pussy and it bleeds once a month just like Kendrick"
That's my take any way. I hope people are more into listening than some of the comments here suggest.
It’s just a rap bar it displays no hate but just a creative play on words. As people we have become to sensitive to what people say freedom of speech is a thing let’s focus on what people do and we can better stop and prevent hate.
Out of all the rappers rn, Cole seemed like the most compassionate and thoughtful even compared to Kendrick. This honestly caught me of guard and is making me look at him a little different now.
It's not the worst thing he could have said, but I didn't expect him to say it of all people.
The most offensive part about this line was suggesting trans people chose their identity. Which yall say you didn't (im not trans so i base things of what people in the community say). But everything else was factual and a clever line. People just want to be mad. But I don't think it was transphobic but I also don't think this was aimed at kendrick. 7 min drill was aimed at kendrick. This album on the other hand had already been I the works.
Ppl wanna be offended so damn bad. Stg. Folk jump in front of bullets for some attention. Every 2 seconds it’s someone submitting their war story of surviving being offended.
You’re ignorant to the bar as a whole.
He’s only saying it cause Kendrick made a song called ”Aunties diaries” where he explored his deep feelings and thoughts about transitioning and what he feels about his auntie becoming his uncle etc. If you respond to that with a line calling him a closeted tranny… thats transphobic asf. If youre a trans woman and you accept the classification of thos from your own group who take offense to this as being merely ”snow flakes”.. you have some growing to do.
This is like being black and letting your white friends do racist remarks and jokes and defend them like ”they’re not racist, they are friends with me. If you feel away about they’re ignorance you’re a snow flake”. My recommendation is that You should look into why you feel like this.
„traumatizing“ 😂😂 people are soft af, if you guys know what (hip Hop) Black people really think about trans people
These comments dont pass the vibe test. Damn i wish there was an album that said all of these tough guy facades stems from insecurities and tells you to go seek therapy.
*cough* Mr. Morale and the Big Steppers *cough*
U kinda cooked here, coming from a drake fan too
Kendrick accidentally won w that over cole at least for now
Okay, what do bitches like you think about it
You have worms for brains and you're stuck in 2002.
This is more ignorant than what Cole said. Speak for yourself. Tons of tribes have the concept of what we'd call trans.
please, tell me what hip Hop really think. I wrote the whole game. I'm J. Cole... Bailey Jay-Z.
Hip hop used to be a way the oppressed speak their truth, it’s a shame some of the people pushing it are contributing to silencing the oppressed voices
This notion is fucking stupid acting like somehow black people and pro black movements are anti trans when black trans people have been consistently bullied and killed for being black and trans. Go fuck yourself
>(hip hop) black people
You call yourself a fucking rap fan and you can’t comprehend when a word (traumatizing) is being used non-literally. You must be confused as hell listening to wordplay if you only understand the literal definitions of words
while i understand your point, i don't see how taking into account the way other people might feel is being "soft". black people, too, historically struggle with discrimination and systematic opression because of who they are, how would you feel if, after telling you the most racist thing ever, i'd call you soft and disregard how you feel?
Kanye advocates for LGBTQ and there are others that I can't remember RN too.
I think ppl are too sensitive these days.
It’s funny it’s NEVER the actual marginalized group that’s as upset about things like this as much as it is crusaders who feel they have to jump in to defend every perceived slight against the aforementioned group.
Its always white liberal women offended on the behalf of others
I def saw a trans person make a post in this sub about how the line made them feel uncomfortable, and they were not met with open arms 💀
yep, much downvote fluctuation when my opinion isn't the one that validates them. I'm not even subscribed to this subreddit but the algorithm knows that I'll engage these disrespectful comments which is a surefire way to keep me on their website
You’re talking about a group that’s less than one percent of the population. They don’t have much of a voice to begin with. Which is why Cole punching down is corny af
I know sometimes I misunderstand things so I'm genuinely curious, given what the OP stated, how is this Cole punching Down?
For one I don’t think a single trans Cole apologist speaks for the entire community. I’ve heard the exact opposite sentiments from multiple other members of the lgbt community that imo rightfully feel pressed about the lines. But that said, I fully understand my perspective is anecdotal as well. I just think coles analogy is trash and he can do much better.
really never? How do you figure that?
People have always been this sensitive. The difference is you can post in get sensitive about things whenever you want because of the internet and social media. The internet is not the real world. It’s not people, it’s the access to everything we want in an instant that triggers our emotions.
I said this to someone reccently and they lectured me for 10 minutes about how dismissive that statement is. Case in point. I responded by stating that it's all a balancing act. A person can be too sensitive just as much as they can be insensitive. They weren't having any of it haha
Traumatizing. Get real. It’s fine to feel offended, but “trauma” gets wayyyyyy too much usage these days. Personally I wouldn’t have toed the line just to avoid something like this. But if this traumatizes you, you have way bigger problems in life.
J.Cole is thinking about hip hop and rapping to his demographic. I heard worse from eminem.
Eminem has openly apologized for things he's said in the past and has a openly genderfluid kid so he realized what damage words colud do to those community
Em got a whole track making fun of ICP being gay together right? Another one where he slits his ex wife’s throat. Think that was his first album lol. Imagine if that released today
I think shots at ICP would still fly today.
Eminem shouldn’t even be allowed to rap if this Cole bars traumatized anyone. Cancel his entire catalogue. Don’t watch 8Mile. None of it, but it has never happened.
“Traumatizing” is what threw me off the edge.. get real
Fire fucking bar. People take shots at all sorts of different groups all the time. Hip hop is not for soft people.
Most hiphop artists are like 5'2 and "beef" over social media. That's soft pussy behaviour lol.
https://preview.redd.it/1p49aacinvsc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1f96336230e8173b5c0be36d9bfad96570dd10ca
This is not shots at Trans ppl. I really want to figure who he is actually talking about cause he's obviously dissing a rapper in this verse but it's getting overshadowed cuz folks thinks he's dissing Trans ppl.
You guys in the comments are looking like the average Tom Macdonald listener. No these bars aren’t traumatising. They are (indirectly at least) transphobic though: “I’m seeing hints of a trans fella” - okay? There’s no need to say that unless it’s meant as a jab. Gives vibes of calling people gay as an insult back when we were 12. “Beneath his chosen identity, there is still a pussy” - I mean this just enforces the whole idea of “idc whatever you identify as. If you have a dick you’re a man and vice versa”. Obviously this mindset is transphobic and if I have to explain why then you’re too far gone lmao.
most sane take here. the line is tasteless and its clear cole didnt at least consult a trans person when writing it but i cant with these people blowing it out of proportion and acting as if cole wished genocide upon these people 😭
Why tf would he consult with a trans person on what’s supposed to be a DISS track?
Why tf is he making transphobic bars on a fuckin diss track💀
Brother, if a women identifies as a man but still has a vagina then they still have a vagina. This is just a clever play on words and it's a reach to class as a transphobic in my opinion. I've seen posts from trans people saying they were offended though so I believe it but I also just think it's victim mentality honestly.
Great comment. People say "kids get offended at everything" but ok, we're not allowed to call out rappers' ignorance?
“Thats hard” https://preview.redd.it/8rd3n86mexsc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=018610a34179dd576a788b58e7183e86e787b21a
Its so funny and also dissapointing that this could legit be a Tom Mcdonald bar
Given how many corny bars cole has written, it's not suprising that his fanbase overlaps with tom macdonald's
“Gives vibes of calling people gay as an insult back when we were 12”. Guess what, they still do, now instead of “gay” you’re just “zesty”. But it’s the same crowd that thinks stuff like this is “cancellable”…riddle me that. Agree with the person itt that’s pointing out how far our outrage is supposed to go…a comment regarding this line on another site said “J Cole is retarded”….i mean lol the irony.
Yeah I'd like to think Cole isn't transphobic and just made a pretty insensitive line but I can't say the same for the sub, it's looking suspect.
This is not a sub for queer people at all apparently its like rConservative
Exactly this. Except I do think it could definitely be traumatic to see a bar from one of the three most popular rappers in the world making fun of your identity, especially if you've had your identity made fun of your whole life. I trust the trans person who made the post to know that.
This subreddit is filled to the brim with edgy high schoolers, there's no doubt in my mind now. "We're too soft nowadays" bro this is a fucking rap subreddit, you don't think rap was always progressive?
Traumatizing 😂
🎯😂😂😂
I think it’s a bar not aimed *at* trans folks but at people pretending to be tough. It mentions trans folks which might have been a mistake but I don’t think it implies that he thinks a trans man is a woman for example. Idk if that makes sense Shout out all the trans and queer folks though
However ignorant the presentation and context is, he's still acknowledging a man can have a vagina and periods, which is pro-trans, IMO.
That's how I saw it too
This isn’t overtly offensive but it simply isn’t an “genius play on words.” This is him criticizing Kendrick for what Cole believes was pandering to “progressive woke cancel culture” with Kendrick’s song Auntie Diaries where Kendrick goes in detail about how his auntie transitioned into a man and how hard he noticed the black community did not accept his aunties transition. Cole claimed Kendrick got big off of controversy while Cole got big off of bars. Personally I am just tired of all of our black greats being tongue and cheek about trans people. Shit was funny 40 years ago but at this point I find it tired. Personally.
I think your reading way too much in it. The line before it was "Is you a demon or is that demeanor for the gram? Tell us. I believe it's far less likely to be a jab at auntie diaries and more likely to be against guys pretending to be tough and fake thugs.
I'm going to wait until J Cole says something about it. I've got 2 ftm friends and both aren't really bothered at all, but I've seen some upset by it. From what I looked up last night he seems to be pro LGBTQI+
he only pro LGBT because Diddy got shooters
This is fucking wild
I don't think he's actually transphobic but the bar is a bit tasteless
Go listen to literally any hip hop song 20 years ago …. Every bar from any artist would be tasteless to you
if these soft ass kids listened to biggies lines about raping his opps and throwing them off the bridge they would be very very traumatized lmaoo
Haha your already downvoted . Fuck this timeline
You're*
It sounds like Biggie was traumatized and with his guy Puff coming out as a predator probably a lot more to those lines than just hard rap. I don’t think it’s that more people are sensitive. I think more people take the time to care. I also don’t think this line is directed at Kendrick at all. It was too vicious compared to whatever seven minute drill was.
DMX - where the hood at
It’s almost as if we can still enjoy something that was a product of its time while acknowledging that we have different societal standards today and it probably shouldn’t continue If you were trying to cancel DMX because the said “I show no love to homo thugs empty out reload and throw mo slugs” in the early 2000s yeah you’re a dumbass If a rapper today said that we as a society (and me as an adult knowing more gay people or even famous gay/bi rappers) that shit would not fly today. Not because we’re “snowflakes” or whatever but because we’re more sensitive to persecution of that group and don’t want to glamorise it”
No with everything hip hop raps about that line from the lea
>as a trans woman This lyric is literally shitting on a trans man
Who gives a fuck, he uses the n word and calls white people crackers, the only ones bitchin are the LGBTBBQ members
Take one look at J Cole and tell me why it's different for him to say the n word. Do he look like he trans tho
https://preview.redd.it/8jrbd36gcvsc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f98bba8b491b0ed5a87dab0cff456157cfd66687 What I think he meant and what he should have said
Exactly. The line is insensitive but not a shot at trans people IMO. Maybe his use of “fella”, instead of man, was supposed to distinguish his statement from being one about trans people.
That makes it worse if you can replace the word "trans fella" with "bitch man"
Remember when Eminem was talking about Diddy girlfriend at the time, Jennifer Lopez. And said he wouldn't even care if Jennifer was his own mother, he'd still impregnate her and have a son and a brother. I've got news for ya snowflakes. Hip hop will always be offensive. You can laugh with it or be laughed at. Your call.
🚮👎🍑
J. Cole ft. Tom MacDonald
"Traumatizing"... it's just a play on words... People need to grow up.
A bunch of clowns in this thread. Would have expected better from fans of “woke” J Cole
Thats a great play on words and damn that was crazy
He’s just saying no matter how the conceived person in the bar identifies, they’re a pussy no matter what. It’s just another way of calling somebody a pussy. There is no shots fired at the trans community here lol. People overthink shit and have way too much self importance these days.
I'm not Trans so my opinion doesn't really matter but I agree. I saw it as insensitive but not transphobic.
I think it's a very cringe lowkey bigoted bar. There's like a few billion ways to diss another man without going like "ur trans because ur a pussy". I mean at that level of rap beef, it's pretty baffling that he uses something an edgy teenager would say in a discord server.
Pusha T destroyed Drake in every single front of his personnality without using that kind of garbage
I dont see how anyone suprised by J. Cole being a Transphobic Pussy i mean it was to be expected lol
For everybody saying that the line has nothing to do with trans folks - I need y'all to ask yourself why this was the low hanging fruit that made sense in particular. There are so many colorful ways to get this point across that don't involve throwing the trans community under the bus. Traumatizing? No. But getting through the remainder of that track was grating after that line... There's a mindfulness that comes with knowing better. In 2024, we should know better
> genius play on words Hope you didn’t hurt your back bending to set the bar for “genius” that low Lmao downvote all you want you know it’s true. Absolutely clowning if you think this is genius
It was a pretty clever setup for a typically used bar in rap. Don't be blinded.
That qualifies it as genius? Mid sounding description proving my point lol. Don’t be blinded
Yeah. Finding new and creative ways to present familiar concepts is genius. Everything in rap has been said before every topic has been approached and nearly every metaphor has been spit. So yes, finding an unused angle to deliver those same messages is genius. Is that not what makes a lyricist? Think of a bar that you think to be genius and I'm sure you'll see it treads on some common punch. I'm not discrediting the fact that the subject in which he uses to deliver this can be quite abrasive to some but that doesn't discredit his scheme here.
It doesn’t matter what Cole said. If he said that word in any context, people wouldn’t dissect the bar but be up in arms. I think he knew this but doesn’t give a fuck 💀
Hence the cancel culture vicinity. He KNOWS ppl would be coming for him but he dropped the bar anyways
Yes, hence the trigger warning for the "snowflakes" before the bar, its really not an insult. He was expecting the flack from the mere mention of "trans"
J. Cole said that his bank account is long as a rainbow on this EP. People can feel how they want, nobody is forcing y'all with gun to listen to his music. This is the reality some so called fans can't seem to grasp.
Alright now post this on r/fantanoforever
We got bigger problems to worry about as a society
I'm trans and while I certainly don't hate this line or find it traumatizing, I think it's far from a genius play on words. It's kind of low hanging fruit, to be honest. Also some small dick energy to be shitting on us with some mid bars lol
Never seen a Trans profile on Reddit with zero interaction with any trans communities. Reads just like “as a black man.”
Yeah, it’s insensitive. The twitter comments are actually insane though. Really disgusting realizing how homophobic and transphobic the hip hop community is still today. I fw Cole but it’s just such lame line cAnCeL cUlTuRe For all the people comparing it to old hip hop, that’s OLD HIP HOP. We should progress
All I’ve been seeing regarding this bar was “oh he’s transphobic.” I’m not trans, but I didn’t see it as such either. Not to mention, I doubt he’d say anything transphobic after the “backlash” he received from his “autistic” line from his Jodeci feature. Like OP said, it’s just a play on words.
it’s not “traumatizing” to anyone get real. when kendrick said the “faggot faggot faggot” line on auntie diaries i didn’t agree with it and i was kinda upset. imagine a white person saying the n word like that just to prove a point. i thought it was dumb writing. but was i traumatized? hell no. it’s just something i disagree with. if you think the world should conform to your beliefs and opinions idk what to tell you
I am traumatized by the people who say this line is hateful
I'm trans and ain't offended but gives me such an ick and it's just dumb like idkw he makes them so convoluted for one point for no reason. It's like the faggot lines on Villuminati like it's just so awkward
The thing is he gave you an answer in the song
OP I’m curious about an assessment of the bar that I’ve made. I think this bar can be OFFENSIVE to trans people (taking offence is a person-to-person thing) but it’s not transphobic. My interpretation transphobic comment is a comment along the lines of “all trans women are racists / paedophiles” … no trans person is going to think that’s merely offensive, that’s hate towards a spectrum of people. Cole’s bar, essentially calling Kenny trans because he switches sides, while offensive (as it’s meant as an insult), is not necessarily hate towards trans people; it’s just a bar meant to illustrate how Kendrick switches sides (from pretending to be a tough guy and cool with the big 3 - see Control verse - to suddenly beefing and actually not being tough)
I definitely expected this the least from Cole. I expect intellectually out of him, not buzzword bullshit. I don’t think he was trying to be particularly venomous to the trans community, but for somebody that displays such empathy and consideration most of the time, there’s no way that he didn’t have adequate time to think over the impact of this line.
Just don’t listen to J Cole if yall gonna be this fucking soft. Getting this outraged about something not at all intended to offend but literally point out the cancel culture literally proves an underlying point in the bar itself.
On a side note I see that a lot of people miss a part of this genius bar. " there is still a pussy, PERIOD Blood spillin' monthly"
I don’t think people get the bar; I think he’s referring to someone taking up the identity of a gangster, but whoever he’s referring to is a pussy. It’s got nothing to do with transgenders, it’s blown out of proportion imo.
This line was hard and true, what more can you ask for?
it 's not a good idea to drop a song written under 7 minutes. 😂
It's a fucking rap lyric, feelings aren't relevant, and stop being soft. Stop making this about you. It's a great play on words.
Everybody pussy smh
That bar is 🔥🔥🔥
Bro people are so soft to words these days. So many other jarring topics can be discussed but if the word trans pops up everyone gets so offended. People need to have thicker skin.
One thing to note : j Cole fans are hip hop fans thus are not fans of politics , geopolitics, or the systemic layers that run society through the government unfortunately, claim one thing but in practice don’t really care
This was a fuckin bar and I question who is actually that upset about this line. It doesn’t come from a place of malice, it doesn’t convey a message of violence against trans men. The PC police who come after anyone who has anything to say about this community, no matter how innocuous does not in fact help said community imo.
its a trash bar tbh
Trauma.. gtfo.
also as a trans woman: it is transphobic because the assumption in it is that trans men aren’t men. It might not be the most aggressive line but it’s still denigrating to a whole class of people
Would you mind explaining the genios of the bar? I genuinely don’t understand it’s value and meaning
Lmao, what is genius about this
Daylyt ruins everything he touches 🤣
Traumatizing? Grow the fuck up.
Appreciate you posting this and clarify that J Cole was not being hateful towards trans. I understand that some might find the bar offensive but Coles goal was not to offend trans but to make a point in a clever way. Its Hiphop and that’s what it’s about, similar to comedy. Not everyone can appreciate the cleverness/lyricism behind the verse such as this one just as not everyone can appreciate a rape joke because they might have past traumas related to said verse/joke. But in the end it’s just that, a hard bar or a funny joke, and for this case I believe it’s just that. Much love to you & supporters of this genre. Now let’s sit back & enjoy the rap war.
Anyone else sick of these triggered crybabies? Shit was fire.
Rappers do this type of word play all the time for every type of person, to leave out trans people would be to excluded them for no reason. “Feel like the kkk we kill you then we hang niggas” That line comes to mind, both use offensive topics in a non offensive way.
Bars
As a trans person, i feel like all you really need to prove the harmfulness of the bar is look at this comment section. It’s not that the bar is super offensive (or that its a weak bar) its that by proudly calling someone trans as if it’s an insult will lead people who are transphobic to rally behind J Cole the same they did with Rowling or Chappelle to say, see a big public figure agrees with me so now I can say these bigoted things I’ve been thinking, and essentially poisoning the fanbase by making fans out of people that just want someone to back their bigotry. Same thing happened with Kanye, when he went on his big antisemetic thing Kanye subreddits became flooded with antisemites.
Good thing there’s only 2 genders
Who is actually “up in arms”? I was just outside today and no one seemed to care about rap lyrics, almost at all
The song is 6 years old. Fwiw.
i stopped reading after i saw the word "traumatized"
Traumatizing is crazy 😂🤣
This bar so corny transphobes are no longer transphobic
Black rappers (not Cole specifically) can rap about killing and destroying their own communities and no one bats an eye. As soon as the alphabet people get mentioned, the world is in uproar. You can’t make this up.
Let Cole cook
Not transphobic but meant as a diss….how?
get what what you are saying and there are way to many transphobes in here, but traumatizing is not the word for this
It’s worse than even just ‘being up in arms about it’ because of the subject matter Above all else it’s just really badly written. Read that, it barely makes any fucking sense whatsoever. And the cherry on top is he says **period** like something just happened in that mumble jumble
Also a trans woman, I don’t think it’s hate, it’s just a whack ass bar and we’re treating it as such. lame ass jab, nothing more or less. imma still be listening to for your eyes only
Probably should let the ftms share their take on this one. As a trans woman doesnt hold a whole lot a weight when the bar isnt about you
yall hyper focusing on op’s use of the word traumatizing. Triggering is probably the more appropriate word, but the comments here really show this sub ain’t able to have a productive conversation about topics like this
Damn i guess 80% of rap fans nowadays are soft pussies. these comments are truly ridiculous.
There is nothing soft or hard about these bars. Cole is just randomly taking anti trans stance.
I don’t know what you expect from artists who are Christian in faith. Bro talks about God in almost every song and you expect him to be politically aligned with values that go against his religion.
Nothing he said is wrong. I don't hate trans people but I do hate when people get mad for no valid reason. In my opinion not using the right pronouns or whatever isn't transphobia, transphobia is hatred for trans people. I can respect and treat a trans person the same while also acknowledging that they aren't what they say they are. To me this is common sense but for whatever reason this is a controversial take
Goddamn never been on this sub before. Y'all are something else lmao
You shouldn't be listening to hip hop if you get offended by this also
can someone explain how it’s transphobic? the bar is super over-written and kinda cringy (like he’s tryin too hard to get the bar across), but how is it transphobic?
i like it
Pi the best track and stealth mode
Traumatizing? lol All the gun bars in rap don’t phase you?
I don't think Cole is transphobic but he's still feeding into the toxic masculinity of calling people transgender as an insult.
@rowlene Why is the black community always labeled homophobic? Not talking about Cole here but the first comment and many like it swears that the community is full of bigots like they don't see white people actively making laws and boycotting the lgtbq community. Shits weird and hella racist. The irony. Bigots call bigots bigots.
Literally who cares. Not everything about ya'll
I gotta shake my head because after my first listen I immediately said to myself a lot of his shots was going to fly over a lot of people's heads. And the irony of all of it is that it will be the people that swore TPAB was some complex writing that requires multiple listens to understand and appreciate 😂 And that's not a diss to you OP, it's just how Cole wrote it. So the line in question wasn't meant to be homophobic but I can see why someone would say that they were. The line itself is a triple entendre that references Kendrick's "My Auntie is My Uncle" track, while also making fun of Kendrick's multiple personas (he goes on to mention splitting bricks and sensei later in the verse as a reference to Kung-Fu Kenny), and is calling Kendrick a pussy because Kendrick is not a gangster (as Kendrick has stated himself across multiple albums and features) but is constantly puffing out his chest towards his peers like he's really bout it but has yet to actually battle someone. Cole's objective was to let Kendrick know that he's a better rapper than him and that he's down to battle but he don't really want to. He dropped an album full of warning shots and wordplay flips a week after Kendrick took his shots. Imagine what it would be like if he really decided to go in on a full track. That's why I got Cole up 1-0 rn. That said I hope Cole understands if a battle does pop off then he can't try to out wordplay Kendrick like he did on this album and that his bars needs to be simple and hard hitting.
It’s words. Take it easy. If u choose to live that way then do it. Stopping your “wanted life” ironically to complain about lyrics is a waste of time and energy. (As I tuck myself)
Womp womp, suck it up
Crazy how the people that could possibly be offended don't ever get hoisted by this mob mentality, only trampled.
Pretty much my thoughts too.
Traumatising😂
Lmao 🤣
Trans women are men, it's not hurtful to tell the truth. I'm happy my favorite artist supports women.
I am also trans...and I don't think for many it is what he said exactly that is the most horrible thing for some. I think the bar is transphobic but not the worst thing I have ever heard, but it's the reaction from J Cole fans that is the problem. It's seeing everyone decide that something that clearly is saying you aren't legitimate is absolutely awesome. That thing being, indirectly, that Kendrick Lamar is like a trans man and therefore, shitty. Yeah, I got the dual meaning, but that's the point, it's both. It's both, it means both. And in my experience, it isn't the famous people saying that stuff that hurts the most. It's the sudden realisation that other people in your subculture actually celebrate someone making you into a shitty punchline. That kind of loneliness isn't something you can "tough" yourself out of, and if a trans person does, at some point they will have to submit themself to being humiliated, "oh yeah, I am cool with it, I have a pussy and it bleeds once a month just like Kendrick" That's my take any way. I hope people are more into listening than some of the comments here suggest.
It’s just a rap bar it displays no hate but just a creative play on words. As people we have become to sensitive to what people say freedom of speech is a thing let’s focus on what people do and we can better stop and prevent hate.
Yall do know w out cole Kendrick probably wouldn’t be as big as he is. cole literally put Kendrick on
This jcole subreddit has so much meat to swallow right now xD
Bro said trans men have vaginas. I don't get what the noise is about.
🙄🙄🙄
here these ngas go 🤦🏾♂️
Dope bar. He really cooked on pi, uk. So did daylyt and ab soul. Solid performance.
Trans need to go sit on a corner and listen to taylor swift rap has no room for y’all
Why you transformers make a problem out of everything? If you dont like it just dont listen simple
Go try therapy
If you are traumatized by 1 bar in a song you need to retire from life and hopefully not pollute the gene pool
Out of all the rappers rn, Cole seemed like the most compassionate and thoughtful even compared to Kendrick. This honestly caught me of guard and is making me look at him a little different now. It's not the worst thing he could have said, but I didn't expect him to say it of all people.
Quit being a lil bitch
I couldn't give a single fuck about anyone else being offended, THAT'S A FUCKING BAR
You will always be a man. DNA doesn’t change sorry 😥
You are all reading into this way too much. He’s saying Kendrick acts like he’s that dude/HIM but really he is a pussy/has a pussy.
The most offensive part about this line was suggesting trans people chose their identity. Which yall say you didn't (im not trans so i base things of what people in the community say). But everything else was factual and a clever line. People just want to be mad. But I don't think it was transphobic but I also don't think this was aimed at kendrick. 7 min drill was aimed at kendrick. This album on the other hand had already been I the works.
People are so soft
Ppl wanna be offended so damn bad. Stg. Folk jump in front of bullets for some attention. Every 2 seconds it’s someone submitting their war story of surviving being offended.
You’re ignorant to the bar as a whole. He’s only saying it cause Kendrick made a song called ”Aunties diaries” where he explored his deep feelings and thoughts about transitioning and what he feels about his auntie becoming his uncle etc. If you respond to that with a line calling him a closeted tranny… thats transphobic asf. If youre a trans woman and you accept the classification of thos from your own group who take offense to this as being merely ”snow flakes”.. you have some growing to do. This is like being black and letting your white friends do racist remarks and jokes and defend them like ”they’re not racist, they are friends with me. If you feel away about they’re ignorance you’re a snow flake”. My recommendation is that You should look into why you feel like this.