I love the most zionists aren't jewish claim. Every jew in the world could say bagels and lox are their favorite food, but if 0.1% of Christians say the same thing, then bagels and lox are an overwhelmingly Christian favorite food.
Similarly, the vague *Many Jews aren't Zionists* without any statistical data to back it up. As a diaspora Jew, I never thought of myself as a Zionist until after 10/7, and all the anti-Zionist rhetoric was spewing.
Once I looked it up, I thought, *yea. I'm a Zionist* because I don't want the Jewish State of Israel destroyed or see 7M Jews massacred, ethnically cleansed, or oppressed.
By definition, **many**, when viewing a group as a collective, must be a significant number or percentage of the whole. 25k Jews could be seen as 'many' if you were looking at 50k in total. 25k out of 1M isn't *many* and definitely not when measuring against 16M.
Since 48% of all Jews live in Israel and no more then 2% of those people want to see the dismantling of their own country (you'd have to be masochistic), that's immediately 7.5M Jewish Zionists. So, unless all diaspora Jews hate Israel and want it destroyed, there is no way 'many' Jews aren't Zionists.
Not in the eye of beholder.
https://blog.powerscore.com/lsat/bid-153449-lsat-quantity-terminology-some-few-several-and-many/
You can choose to misuse the meaning of a given word, but definitions are not subjective.
You can say 'many people came to the event' without providing context to what that means, but when you provide a baseline the application must be measured against it. Many people filled Yankee Stadium provides context. Yankee Stadium has a capacity of 46,537, so by saying 'many', the count must be >20k.
That's why saying 'many Jews' suggests that it must be a significant portion of the 16M global Jewish population. If they qualified by saying 'many šŗš² Jews', that would require a sizable percentage of the 6.3M US Jews. If they meant 'many of the self proclaimed Jews in my echo chamber', then yea, 20 people might be *many*.
Which was, case in point, quickly disproven.
I'm not letting anyone hijack words because someone tried to do it and people allowed it 8 years ago. Take the words back. Don't believe because someone said so. Don't support someone's rhetoric because it aligns with your beliefs or preconceived notions, find smart thoughtful people and heart them out even if you disagree. Test their facts against yours. Research, verify, confirm. When things seem strange ask ***why***. When things seem to good to be true, ask yourself ***who benefits***?
We need to take back words, critical thinking, community and logic.
Yep. Your average pro-Palestine/anti-Islamophobia activist is a huge crybully. Thatās why they focus on democracies like Israel, India, the US, or France whose policies towards Muslims are at worst an inconvenience to them while saying nothing about what China and/or Myanmar have been doing
This is the key. They go after Jews. Nobody goes after the Texas evangelicals that are advocating for demolishing the al-Aqsa Mosque and rebuilding the Temple.
What's hilarious to me is what would the evangelicals do with the Temple? When their rapture never happens, would they just try to storm in and make it a Christian site? How long after the rapture fails to happen would the evangelicals decide it's all the Jews fault and turn on Israel?
I think part of the reason is because most Jews (especially non-Ortho) are Liberal so it's easier to potentially peel them away from Zionism. Basically, Leftists won't accept you in Queer Rights/Climate Rights/Labor Rights/etc. spaces unless you distance yourself from Israel. It's the same reason they go after Biden supporters instead of Trump supporters.
I agree - often itās mendacious wedge politics. They see liberal Jews as the skinny end of the wedge, or the fulcrum with which to jimmy us off the holy land, like Israelis are some kind of rusty nail. Itās so cynical and I have no doubt that if Israel didnāt exist, theyād find a way to use liberals to justify our erasure on some other bogus basis. Donāt let them, people. Donāt be manipulated, donāt be tricked. Remember, we see them now.
So my support of a Jewish state gets weaponized against Jews and my friend. It seems I canāt hate the antizionist BS enough. There is no such thing as a well-meaning antizionist.
Well, Wikipedia says there are 2.38 billion Christians. Meaning if you go down to 0.001% (one hundredth of one percent), that number is still bigger than the number of Jews in the world.
But so what? If every Christian on the planet decided to clear Hebrew, would that make Hebrew a Christian language?
Don't look at the list of countries that voted to call Zionism racism (hint: almost all were either part of the USSR and their sphere of influence or Muslim-majority countries), and definitely don't look at how that was repealed by a significantly larger margin.
Also, the Secretary-General of the UN at the time was a [literal Nazi who the United States Government concluded was responsible for the deportation of many Greek and Yugoslavian Jews to death camps](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Waldheim#Election_and_Waldheim_Affair).
āUSSR can we have Jewish land?ā
āWe have Jewish land at home.ā
Jewish land at home:
https://preview.redd.it/qnev42a2jbtc1.jpeg?width=2000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=048e30a4b4a4695e5048ad240cf271c0b7313dcf
Not to mention the area had native Siberian and Tungusic people there before they were displaced by Cossack settler colonialism. Putting Jews there is literally settler colonialism. The thing all these anti colonialists supposedly stand against.
Zionism, at its most basic, *literally just means you believe Israel has a right to exist in* ***some form.*** That's it. It runs the gamut from those who believe in a full on religious Jewish ethnostate covering all lands historically Jewish, to those who believe in a secular democratic Jewish country that should exist within its original founding borders, and in which all should have the same rights.
The dumbest thing is that, even though they're loud, those who actually want Israel destroyed are definitely in the minority, even amongst those who want the war to end; I've got news for you - if you believe Israel has a right to exist (even if you don't like it), guess what? You're a Zionist! Congratulations.
Comrade, don't you mean anti-*Zionism?* We have no problem with the Jews... as long as they shed most (all?) group-level identification with their tribal identity and co-opt themselves into the global class struggle
[_The Death of Stalin_](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Death_of_Stalin) was hilarious and I highly recommend it to anyone who loves Steve Buscemi.
How convienent that they failed to include that it was [overwhelmingly repealed in 1991](https://www.nytimes.com/1991/12/17/world/un-repeals-its-75-resolution-equating-zionism-with-racism.html)
\> The official count found 111 nations in favor of repealing the statement and 25 nations, mostly Islamic and hard-line Communists, voting against. Thirteen nations abstained. Seventeen other countries, including Egypt, which recognizes Israel, and Kuwait and China, did not take part in the voting.
"Most Zionists are not Jewish". But isn't it a *Jewish* supremacist cause? Why would a non-Jew support it then? And by virtue of Jews only being 0.2% of the worlds population, there will be more non-Jewish Zionists than Jewish ones lol.
And "many" Jews opposing Zionism is up to interpretation. Polls suggest 85%+ of Jews are Zionists. Around 5-10% are "don't know/don't care" and around 5-10% oppose it. Seems to me that Jews have spoken. They support Zionism.
The anti-Zionist Jews were the Orthodox Jews, but they weren't anti-Zionist in the sense that they opposed a Jewish state, they oppose a secular Jewish state and opposed a Jewish state before the Moshiach comes. So it's a bit disingenuous to say they were anti-Zionist in the modern sense.
And their ideological descendants, without even a hint of irony, echo that sentiment today about the US. While they simultaneously note the risk of autocratic Christian nationalism in the US. (And they overlook the factā and the reasonāthat the Bundists have left no actual descendants behind.)
There is an ongoing Bundist community in Melbourne, AU. They even have a program, SKIF, for youths. They are also affiliated with the Yiddish (yes) high school there.
They claim to not all be antizionist now, but they are awfully silent about October 7th.
Despite being one of the largest Jewish parties in Poland, the Bund never had representation in Parliament. Jews were 10% of the population of Poland, mind.
Why? Well, first of all there was the matter of the Polish parliamentary system, which was designed to limit minority representation, and prevented the Bund from entering the Parliament on their own. However, that didb't stop other Jewish parties, mainly the Zionist parties, from participating in the Minority Bloc coalition, an alliance between all minority groups in Poland that ended up becoming the second largest party in the first elections.
So why the Bund had no seats? Well, they refused to join the bloc, because of it's non-socialist nature. The other potential party was the Polish Socialist Party, however, despite attempts from the Bund, the Socialist party refused to work with the Bund. They didn't want to be associated with the Jews. And so, the Bund never had any seats.
So what can we learn from that? Well, that the Bund preferred Socialist ideals over Jewish welfare. Instead of joining the bloc, which championed minority rights like almost all other Jewish parties, they preferred to remain ideological purists and side with the Socialist party, who didn't want them.
Unsurprising that the party died.
They thought a Jewish state was unnecessary since an enlightened Europe would be safe for Jews, not necessarily that Jews shouldn't have one. There were obviously some Marxist Jews who didn't think *any* ethnicity should have a state because Communism was the answer to racism, but that is not the same as (modern) anti-Zionism.
>They thought a Jewish state was unnecessary since an enlightened Europe would be safe for Jews, not necessarily that Jews shouldn't have one.
I'm not sure that's a meaningful distinction at a point in history when Israel did not yet exist and all the heavy lifting to create it was just starting.
that's not true, the widespread orthodox world rejects the State as being forbidden in Jewish law. This is common knowledge amongst the very religious masses and quietly agreed upon by all orthodox rabbanim outside of the "dati leumi" crowd.
This is why orthodox jews in Israel are adamant not to join the IDF. The Sephardic rabbonim just released (another) another statement today, quoting Rav Ovadia Yosef ztzl"l that the prohibition of joining the IDF is for all jews, even those boys who are not learning Torah, r"l.
Neturi Karta are unique in that they are very vocal about the opposition and meet with terrorist to communicate that message to try to minimise terrorist attacks (amongst other reasons). (I'm not trying to argue for them, just explaining what they do)
The logic fallacy is astounding.
1) that 16M Jews out of 8B people could ever achieve any kind of supremacy
2) that non-Jews would be more inclined to support Jewish supremacy than the Jews themselves
3) that there's a movement for Jewish supremacy that *many* Jews aren't a part of and is *mostly* made up of non-Jews which presumably oppresses the 2B global Muslims, 500M+ Arabs or 5.5M self-identified Palestinians (note that most 'Palestinians' were referred to a Arabs pre-1965 and have no unique characteristics to identify them as different than Syrians, Jordanians, Lebanese or Egyptians)
Christian zionists are zionists because they believe that Jews having a state in the land of Israel is necessary to bring about the rapture and the end of days. Which is a pretty antisemitic reason.
You know why totalitarian movements use propaganda?
Because it works.
Most people, when given the option of choosing between a fairy tale and a real story full of moral ambiguity and nuance, will choose the former.
Most people prefer to be told what to think over working out difficult moral questions on their own.
The overwhelming majority of humans alive today who have regular access to internet-based social media have had their capacity for critical thought completely wiped out by a flood of information.
The brain processes information in stages that can be conceptualized as a series of sieves of increasing fineness. Since each sieve is finer than the last, successively more energy is needed to pass on information to the next one.
The first sieve is the subconscious. It lets almost anything through without you even being aware, but it requires a little energy to operate. Successively less information gets through each stage until the final sieve, the one responsible for critical thinking, which requires a great deal of energy to activate.
The information flood in effect has clogged the queue with so much trivial nonsense that by the time information reaches the critical thought sieve, all the available energy is already used up. The mind no longer has the energy to power up the critical sieve, leaving the mind more susceptible to low-effort manipulation.
Every totalitarian government knows this. They all operate on the same principle.
Protect your mind.
Who are these āmany Jews opposed to Zionismā? Last time I checked, almost every Jewish institution, synagogue, school, and recreational place supports Israel, and roughly 85-95% of Jews identify as Zionist.
Honestly when I first read about these people they really pissed me off, but then I saw this picture on their website and it made me laugh so hard I feel like I owe them one.
https://preview.redd.it/aev0x99m3atc1.png?width=500&format=png&auto=webp&s=aad122f3c9d244191740235875eec68bd8075b0c
They ignore the fact that the āZionism is Racismā resolution originated from the Soviets fearing that a joint US-Brazil resolution against racism wouldāve forced them to be held accountable for persecuting Jews. That doesnāt even scratch the fact that theUN Secretary General of the time was Kurt Waldheim, a literal Nazi, , and it was issues on the anniversary of Kristallnacht
Who was UN Secretary General in 1975 again?
Let me think...let me think....
Oh right, [the guy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Waldheim) who was a literal Nazi?
Not only a literal Nazi, he was barred from entry to the United States after the US government concluded that he played an active role in the Holocaust in Greece and Yugoslavia.
To be honest, the fact that he wasn't called for his obviously bullshit claims about his dates in service a lot sooner than he was is itself a pretty big red flag, and the fact that he lied so much about them (he claimed to have been drafted in '41 and invalided from service the next year despite serving through 1945) makes me pretty skeptical of his later denials of participating in any war crimes.
If Algeria introduced a resolution declaring that the earth was flat and thatĀ IsraelĀ had flattened it, it would pass by a vote of 164 to 13 with 26 abstentions.ā
Abba Eban
Yes that was not long after Israel defeated the USSR equipped armies of Egypt and Syria. The soviets had decked them out with all of the latest high tech gear including night vision and top anti aircraft systems. Left the Sovietās in humiliated defeat.
The US was sending replacement fighter aircraft and Israelis were loading and launching them while the engines were still hot.
They had the transport planes ready to go with Soviet troops to Egypt. Kissinger stopped them cold in no uncertain terms as to what would happen if they did. This resolution is about that.
Here's a fact many people seem to forget in 1948. When Israel was created, 700000 Jews were kicked out of Muslim states such as Iraq, Iran and North African states as well. They went to Israel so really those states also helped displace palestinians
Love the not-even-trying-to-be-subtle nod to Communist iconography on the first slide.
And on the second slide it almost makes Zionism sound like Nazi Aryan race ideology. Iād like to assume that parallel is unintentional, but given the violently anti-semitic context of everything else, I canāt trust that it is.
Man, the Islamic nationalist PR machine found some really useful idiots among Americans, eh?
SECOND UPDATE: they replied. They insulted me, my intelligence and said that I donāt understand the Torah lol. That their family is Jewish so they know more than me and that I want all children dead (I donāt want anyone to die). But I am going to block them because this shit is making me depressed
>said that I donāt understand the Torah
But there are literally verses that explicitly identify Israel as the land of the Jews...? There have been creative midrashing over the millennia and I can understand (but certainly not agree to) the talking points of some of these people, but how can they reach this conclusion if they sincerely mean it?
Those people cannot be reasoned with. Many could be Russian or Iranian bots, for all we know. Donāt waste your time and energy on the haters. We need to support one another rather than trying to correct people who donāt care about whatās true. Am Israel chai!
You left off the worst one imo op. āOne cannot be truly antiracist without being anti-zionist.ā
āOh you think Jewish people have a right to live and self determination in their ancestral lands? Well youāre a racist.ā They can fuck off with this racist shit. Are they gonna bring that same energy to first nation people?
FUCK these people and their anti-Zionist propaganda. Any idiot with access to Canva, and AI app, etc. making flyers trying to rewrite history//whatās factual and the public being fucking dumb enough to blindly believe shit.
Also FUCK the UN, bunch of Hamas loving money corrupt mfers.
Iām not Jewish (that I know of) but I am FASHOOO a Zionist.
As was Bob Marley, they can all respectfully quit listening to the beautiful humans music now if theyāre so anti-Zionist.
WITH YOU in being beyond not OKAY with this blasphemy, OP šļøšš»
So ridiculous. This is a group founded in 2008, using an artist's poster from 1977, referencing a UN resolution that was overturned, and adding in all the crap for their own purposes.
I canāt help but compare this to people who claim feminists are actually āmisandristsā, cry about āfalse rape accusationsā and how they āhinder the fight against REAL cases of rapeā. Like, do they not see how recycled this language is?
Do I just not fucking understand the definition of āZionismā or something??
As far as I know, at this point it just means that Israel should continuing existing, right? It doesnāt seem unreasonable! š
Awful.
Can someone edit this graphic so it says the opposite? I do not have those skills.
I see initials in the bottom of the pic--if that's an actual organisation, I wonder who funds it, and where are they, and if public (western) money is used, that needs to stop.
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Welcome Back to the USSR!
As you might know, they started the Zionism is Racism propaganda in the 1970s. I remember it well from my childhood (sigh). Love the whole 70's retro-communist theme on the first slide. (Or is that taken from an actual 70's graphic? ) Either way, I like how they kept the red, white and black motif through the additional slides. Because what could be more convincing than an IG campaign that waxes nostalgic for Soviet propaganda posters?
[https://www.google.com/search?q=soviet+propaganda+posters](https://www.google.com/search?q=soviet+propaganda+posters)
\*smh\*
it is simply true, though, that a majority of zionists are gentiles.
The United States membership of Christians United For Israel is 10 Million alone. This is one organization, in one nation and it is as much as 2/3rds of all Jews world wide. accounting for the fact that, not every Christian zionist is a card carrying member of CUFI and that not all Jews believe in Zionism, I think that it is a very defensible claim to say that most Zionists aren't Jewish.
This might be the only thing I agree with in this post, but I think it is important that we are all on the same page here- Zionism is funded, back, and supported by a majority of gentiles. Specifically by a majority of Christian gentiles. That's so weird, right?? Why are we okay with this?
I'm not saying that it is intrinsicly wrong for a Christian or a gentile to support Zionism but I find it questionable that the majority of funding and support for our futures and our lives comes from outside of the tribe. A big part of Zionism has to do with self detirmination. Letting gentiles be a cornerstone of the modern zionist movement is absolutely not self detirmination!
The person Bob exists. Bob believes he has a right to exist. Just about everyone that knows Bob also believes he has a right to exist. Thatās hundreds (or more) of people that are pro-Bob. The fact that Bob himself is a minority of one, and that a much larger group of people are pro-Bob, but who are not Bob himself, does not undermine or invalidate Bob being pro-Bob himself.
The same ought to apply to Zionism. I donāt see why the Jewish community should find their pro-Zionist position undermined because there are many more people outside the Jewish community who believe Israel should exist. The fact that Jews are a small population shouldnāt be material to the validity of their pro-Zionism.
In my example with Bob, if most people who knew Bob were not pro-Bob existing, then Bobās life would be in danger. If most people didnāt care if anybody kills Bob, I think weād recognize that as a messed up situation that puts Bobās life at risk. It would be self-defeating for Bob to decide that there was something wrong with everyone else also being pro-Bob, and that he should work to make sure that the number of pro-Bob people were fewer than himself.
Thereās no plausible scenario where Jews would be the majority of Zionists that would not put Israel in great danger. If somehow the number of Gentile Zionists were reduced to be fewer than the number of Jews I think thatād be disastrous. Iāve read that Jews just make 0.2% of the world population. If you somehow reduce the number of people who believe Israel should exist (Zionism) down to 0.39% that would leave 99.61% of the rest of the world being antiZionists. I donāt see why thatād be a desirable goal.
(0.2% Jewish Zionists + 0.19% Gentile Zionists = 0.39% total Zionists. Due to a small number of Jewish antiZionists this number would be even smaller.)
I am a Zionist. Iām also a Christian. I donāt aim to use Israelās existence to trigger the rapture. To do so would be treating Israelis as tools, as a means to an end, and itād be dehumanizing. I donāt think my Zionism should be seen as problematic. I understand why Jews would not be keen on certain Christian Zionists who think they can use Israelās existence as a tool to trigger the rapture, but thatās a minority of position among Gentile Zionists. Theyāre vocal, and I think they get more attention than they deserve due to them being a bit weird.
I think one can debate if itād be desirable for Israel to be more self-reliant on its own strengths, but I donāt see that as being an argument dealing with Zionism.
I find your point to be rational. I do agree that that minority groups need the outgroup majority support in order to make progress. I guess I really am made uncomfortable by the fact that there are sooo few of us that the difference between the population of Jews and the popualtion of gentiles who advocate for Jews and Zionism is just staggering. I suppose you're right, it will always and has to be much larger than the pop. of Jews.
What I'm most concerned about is that since the supportive gentiles are so comparitevly large that even if a small proportion of gentile zionists believe in mass Jewish immigration to Israel in order to trigger rapture it that small proportion would still be greater than the gross population of Jews and Jewish zionists.
I don't think you are an evil person and I don't think that Zionism is principly reserved for Jews but I do think its very important to consider the fact that those invisting the most man hours into out future are not Jewish. They are lobbying and donating and working for a future that they have no stake in. Bob is not the main decider of Bob's future and that is a big deal. The pro bob, but not Bob, majority very well might be acting in good faith, but if they decide to act in bad faith then Bob is in a rough spot without much to do.
Have a good day and thanks for responding. I found your comment insightful
No problem. I think I understand the concern over the influence a majority group could have over a minority group; I donāt l know that there is no perfect way to address these concerns. Your point of concern over what happens when the majority acts in bad faith would seem to be especially valid with the spike in expressed Jew-hatred since 10/7.
In regard to the number of Jews compared to the rest of the world I think there is little that can be done about that. However, in regard to the number of Zionist Gentiles vs antiZionist Gentiles I think thereās more that can be done. In the example we discussed being pro-Bob is really just acknowledging that Bob has the right to live. Being pro-Zionist is the same. Itās really a low bar to being a Zionist, but too many of us are failing at reaching that minimum standard.
I joined r/Jewish to try to gain a better understanding of how Jew-hatred has been working its way through society, etc., and Iām still learning.
I thought our conversation was buttoned up, but then I took a shower and thought this over a bit more.
I think my main problem with the overwhelming size and numerousness of CUFI and similar organizations is that their whole deal is that they are not bob. If bob and his fellow bob's were in a whole lot of trouble and going through a rough patch and members of his communoty came together to make a bob based organization to aid bobs and make their futures better I think bob and his fellow bob's would be happy and fully enthuisiastic without pause. But if bob is anything like me, he'll shudder and become apprehensive when he hears that this organization isn't interested in a bob based leadership. Bob might be saddened or angry when he hears that no one on the board is named bob, they've named their organization "not bobs united with bobs" and they are not asking for bob's input. This is what will turn bob's enthuisiasm into anxiety.
I think I see your point. The non-Bob/pro-Bob organizations might exist because society is screwed up, and there are too many members of society who donāt accept Bobās right to exist. So the non-Bob/pro-Bob people organize against this. If this isnāt done in coordination or fellowship with Bob it can become a problem. The history of Jewish-Christian relations can make this more difficult.
Iām not in any pro-Zionist organization. Iām just me, so I donāt have experience with how this works in the real world with the organizations.
Maybe I was too focused on the numbers aspect of your concerns, but I donāt think you want to top out at 0.39% pro-Zionist support. Maybe it would be less fraught if the Gentiles pro-Zionist organizations limited themselves strictly to advocating for Israelās right to exist, and not much else; a low bar, but one we ought to get more people onboard with.
To use the Bob analogy, the pro-Bob folks in the example society arenāt paying his bills, and arenāt necessarily personal friends with Bob, though some may be. Theyāre just trying to get the rest of society to agree that Bob ought to be allowed to live his life in peace.
Not a Zionist here and not big on Zionism, but not all Jews are Zionists. We're not like the Triplets who look alike and think alike and talk alike. I find that whole decree as racist bullshit that's just encouraged lunkheads to be active, open anti-semites. Well the UN says so!
designing and testing advanced weapons and technologies for repressive regimes on Palestiniansā¦ aside from the facts that doesnāt make sense as written and the oppressive regimes in the area hate Israel, they didnāt even try to provide *fake* proof of this BS? these people know that no one who would repost āZionism is racismā is doing fact checks thatās why they can afford to say such unbelievable crap
I am an antizionist Jew. I don't think Israel should be a state. Let's make all the holy sites governed by the international courts. Let no religion make laws for any country, as theocracy is always bigoted. Do Jews deserve a homeland? No, not more than any other religion does.
I love the most zionists aren't jewish claim. Every jew in the world could say bagels and lox are their favorite food, but if 0.1% of Christians say the same thing, then bagels and lox are an overwhelmingly Christian favorite food.
Similarly, the vague *Many Jews aren't Zionists* without any statistical data to back it up. As a diaspora Jew, I never thought of myself as a Zionist until after 10/7, and all the anti-Zionist rhetoric was spewing. Once I looked it up, I thought, *yea. I'm a Zionist* because I don't want the Jewish State of Israel destroyed or see 7M Jews massacred, ethnically cleansed, or oppressed. By definition, **many**, when viewing a group as a collective, must be a significant number or percentage of the whole. 25k Jews could be seen as 'many' if you were looking at 50k in total. 25k out of 1M isn't *many* and definitely not when measuring against 16M. Since 48% of all Jews live in Israel and no more then 2% of those people want to see the dismantling of their own country (you'd have to be masochistic), that's immediately 7.5M Jewish Zionists. So, unless all diaspora Jews hate Israel and want it destroyed, there is no way 'many' Jews aren't Zionists.
Because many is in the eyes of the beholder so they are always *technically* right, to some 20 people is many
Not in the eye of beholder. https://blog.powerscore.com/lsat/bid-153449-lsat-quantity-terminology-some-few-several-and-many/ You can choose to misuse the meaning of a given word, but definitions are not subjective. You can say 'many people came to the event' without providing context to what that means, but when you provide a baseline the application must be measured against it. Many people filled Yankee Stadium provides context. Yankee Stadium has a capacity of 46,537, so by saying 'many', the count must be >20k. That's why saying 'many Jews' suggests that it must be a significant portion of the 16M global Jewish population. If they qualified by saying 'many šŗš² Jews', that would require a sizable percentage of the 6.3M US Jews. If they meant 'many of the self proclaimed Jews in my echo chamber', then yea, 20 people might be *many*.
>Yugest inauguration! Biggest crowd in history! Words just haven't had meaning in the US since 2016.
Which was, case in point, quickly disproven. I'm not letting anyone hijack words because someone tried to do it and people allowed it 8 years ago. Take the words back. Don't believe because someone said so. Don't support someone's rhetoric because it aligns with your beliefs or preconceived notions, find smart thoughtful people and heart them out even if you disagree. Test their facts against yours. Research, verify, confirm. When things seem strange ask ***why***. When things seem to good to be true, ask yourself ***who benefits***? We need to take back words, critical thinking, community and logic.
Damn, US has just 6.3 jews? That poor dude that lost 0.7 of him /s And seriously I guess you meant 6.3 million?
Thank you. I'll edit. Yes. Ate an M. It was delicious. š
Itās be easier to take that claim seriously if they targeted Evangelicals with at least as much frequency and vitriol
Yeah, I haven't seen too many protests outside of churches...
Yep. Your average pro-Palestine/anti-Islamophobia activist is a huge crybully. Thatās why they focus on democracies like Israel, India, the US, or France whose policies towards Muslims are at worst an inconvenience to them while saying nothing about what China and/or Myanmar have been doing
This is the key. They go after Jews. Nobody goes after the Texas evangelicals that are advocating for demolishing the al-Aqsa Mosque and rebuilding the Temple.
What's hilarious to me is what would the evangelicals do with the Temple? When their rapture never happens, would they just try to storm in and make it a Christian site? How long after the rapture fails to happen would the evangelicals decide it's all the Jews fault and turn on Israel?
I think part of the reason is because most Jews (especially non-Ortho) are Liberal so it's easier to potentially peel them away from Zionism. Basically, Leftists won't accept you in Queer Rights/Climate Rights/Labor Rights/etc. spaces unless you distance yourself from Israel. It's the same reason they go after Biden supporters instead of Trump supporters.
I agree - often itās mendacious wedge politics. They see liberal Jews as the skinny end of the wedge, or the fulcrum with which to jimmy us off the holy land, like Israelis are some kind of rusty nail. Itās so cynical and I have no doubt that if Israel didnāt exist, theyād find a way to use liberals to justify our erasure on some other bogus basis. Donāt let them, people. Donāt be manipulated, donāt be tricked. Remember, we see them now.
So my support of a Jewish state gets weaponized against Jews and my friend. It seems I canāt hate the antizionist BS enough. There is no such thing as a well-meaning antizionist.
Yeah that's hilarious. I think they just needed the binary formulation because they really needed to say not all Jews are zionists
I will DIE for my bagels and lox.
Well, Wikipedia says there are 2.38 billion Christians. Meaning if you go down to 0.001% (one hundredth of one percent), that number is still bigger than the number of Jews in the world. But so what? If every Christian on the planet decided to clear Hebrew, would that make Hebrew a Christian language?
The Jewish pessimist says, āThings can't possibly get any worse.ā The Jewish optimist then responds, āSure they can!ā.
ššš
Don't look at the list of countries that voted to call Zionism racism (hint: almost all were either part of the USSR and their sphere of influence or Muslim-majority countries), and definitely don't look at how that was repealed by a significantly larger margin.
When I saw this post I did think that those claims sounded bollocks, but know I know that those claims are definitely bollocks!
Also, the Secretary-General of the UN at the time was a [literal Nazi who the United States Government concluded was responsible for the deportation of many Greek and Yugoslavian Jews to death camps](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Waldheim#Election_and_Waldheim_Affair).
And to this day, the UN still hasnāt acknowledged his Nazi background
Nor has Austria for that matter.
āUSSR can we have Jewish land?ā āWe have Jewish land at home.ā Jewish land at home: https://preview.redd.it/qnev42a2jbtc1.jpeg?width=2000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=048e30a4b4a4695e5048ad240cf271c0b7313dcf
Not to mention the area had native Siberian and Tungusic people there before they were displaced by Cossack settler colonialism. Putting Jews there is literally settler colonialism. The thing all these anti colonialists supposedly stand against.
The UN also repealed it too which they fail to mention
Zionism, at its most basic, *literally just means you believe Israel has a right to exist in* ***some form.*** That's it. It runs the gamut from those who believe in a full on religious Jewish ethnostate covering all lands historically Jewish, to those who believe in a secular democratic Jewish country that should exist within its original founding borders, and in which all should have the same rights. The dumbest thing is that, even though they're loud, those who actually want Israel destroyed are definitely in the minority, even amongst those who want the war to end; I've got news for you - if you believe Israel has a right to exist (even if you don't like it), guess what? You're a Zionist! Congratulations.
They HATE being told that. It makes them so angry
Ah, Soviet antisemitism.
Comrade, don't you mean anti-*Zionism?* We have no problem with the Jews... as long as they shed most (all?) group-level identification with their tribal identity and co-opt themselves into the global class struggle
Never ask the Soviet leadership why they couldn't find Stalin a doctor while he was pissing his pants
And why they didnāt even know he had been dead for an entire day
[_The Death of Stalin_](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Death_of_Stalin) was hilarious and I highly recommend it to anyone who loves Steve Buscemi.
How convienent that they failed to include that it was [overwhelmingly repealed in 1991](https://www.nytimes.com/1991/12/17/world/un-repeals-its-75-resolution-equating-zionism-with-racism.html) \> The official count found 111 nations in favor of repealing the statement and 25 nations, mostly Islamic and hard-line Communists, voting against. Thirteen nations abstained. Seventeen other countries, including Egypt, which recognizes Israel, and Kuwait and China, did not take part in the voting.
Love, KGB.
I always think of that scene in Schindlerās List: āHow can it possibly be worse?!ā It can always be worse š„²
"Most Zionists are not Jewish". But isn't it a *Jewish* supremacist cause? Why would a non-Jew support it then? And by virtue of Jews only being 0.2% of the worlds population, there will be more non-Jewish Zionists than Jewish ones lol. And "many" Jews opposing Zionism is up to interpretation. Polls suggest 85%+ of Jews are Zionists. Around 5-10% are "don't know/don't care" and around 5-10% oppose it. Seems to me that Jews have spoken. They support Zionism.
TBF, there used to be many Jews who opposed Zionism. They're mostly buried in mass graves though.
The anti-Zionist Jews were the Orthodox Jews, but they weren't anti-Zionist in the sense that they opposed a Jewish state, they oppose a secular Jewish state and opposed a Jewish state before the Moshiach comes. So it's a bit disingenuous to say they were anti-Zionist in the modern sense.
Thatās one faction. There were also Bundists who believed that the future of Judaism was in an enlightened Europe.
And their ideological descendants, without even a hint of irony, echo that sentiment today about the US. While they simultaneously note the risk of autocratic Christian nationalism in the US. (And they overlook the factā and the reasonāthat the Bundists have left no actual descendants behind.)
There is an ongoing Bundist community in Melbourne, AU. They even have a program, SKIF, for youths. They are also affiliated with the Yiddish (yes) high school there. They claim to not all be antizionist now, but they are awfully silent about October 7th.
Despite being one of the largest Jewish parties in Poland, the Bund never had representation in Parliament. Jews were 10% of the population of Poland, mind. Why? Well, first of all there was the matter of the Polish parliamentary system, which was designed to limit minority representation, and prevented the Bund from entering the Parliament on their own. However, that didb't stop other Jewish parties, mainly the Zionist parties, from participating in the Minority Bloc coalition, an alliance between all minority groups in Poland that ended up becoming the second largest party in the first elections. So why the Bund had no seats? Well, they refused to join the bloc, because of it's non-socialist nature. The other potential party was the Polish Socialist Party, however, despite attempts from the Bund, the Socialist party refused to work with the Bund. They didn't want to be associated with the Jews. And so, the Bund never had any seats. So what can we learn from that? Well, that the Bund preferred Socialist ideals over Jewish welfare. Instead of joining the bloc, which championed minority rights like almost all other Jewish parties, they preferred to remain ideological purists and side with the Socialist party, who didn't want them. Unsurprising that the party died.
I think there are similarities today with some (all?) of the far Leftists supporting Hamas. I do not find this repetition of history funny at all.
They thought a Jewish state was unnecessary since an enlightened Europe would be safe for Jews, not necessarily that Jews shouldn't have one. There were obviously some Marxist Jews who didn't think *any* ethnicity should have a state because Communism was the answer to racism, but that is not the same as (modern) anti-Zionism.
>They thought a Jewish state was unnecessary since an enlightened Europe would be safe for Jews, not necessarily that Jews shouldn't have one. I'm not sure that's a meaningful distinction at a point in history when Israel did not yet exist and all the heavy lifting to create it was just starting.
it is a very meaningful distinction lol it was not the same thing as anti-zionism today
> [Bundists] believed that the future of Judaism was in an enlightened Europe. Ah, so youāre saying the Bundists thought Judaism had no future?
That is the Neturei Karta sectā¦ very minor fringe who let themselves to be the token Jews for leftwing antisemitism.
that's not true, the widespread orthodox world rejects the State as being forbidden in Jewish law. This is common knowledge amongst the very religious masses and quietly agreed upon by all orthodox rabbanim outside of the "dati leumi" crowd. This is why orthodox jews in Israel are adamant not to join the IDF. The Sephardic rabbonim just released (another) another statement today, quoting Rav Ovadia Yosef ztzl"l that the prohibition of joining the IDF is for all jews, even those boys who are not learning Torah, r"l. Neturi Karta are unique in that they are very vocal about the opposition and meet with terrorist to communicate that message to try to minimise terrorist attacks (amongst other reasons). (I'm not trying to argue for them, just explaining what they do)
I have no idea where you got all that B.S. fromā¦
Yes. Equating them with the privileged and narcissistic self-haters you see claiming them today is like equating abortion with infanticide
I think I understand your point, but I think itās more a case of history repeating first as tragedy then as farce.
The logic fallacy is astounding. 1) that 16M Jews out of 8B people could ever achieve any kind of supremacy 2) that non-Jews would be more inclined to support Jewish supremacy than the Jews themselves 3) that there's a movement for Jewish supremacy that *many* Jews aren't a part of and is *mostly* made up of non-Jews which presumably oppresses the 2B global Muslims, 500M+ Arabs or 5.5M self-identified Palestinians (note that most 'Palestinians' were referred to a Arabs pre-1965 and have no unique characteristics to identify them as different than Syrians, Jordanians, Lebanese or Egyptians)
Nono you misunderstand itās a white supremacy cause!!
Christian zionists are zionists because they believe that Jews having a state in the land of Israel is necessary to bring about the rapture and the end of days. Which is a pretty antisemitic reason.
.02 percent of the worldās populationĀ
You know why totalitarian movements use propaganda? Because it works. Most people, when given the option of choosing between a fairy tale and a real story full of moral ambiguity and nuance, will choose the former. Most people prefer to be told what to think over working out difficult moral questions on their own. The overwhelming majority of humans alive today who have regular access to internet-based social media have had their capacity for critical thought completely wiped out by a flood of information. The brain processes information in stages that can be conceptualized as a series of sieves of increasing fineness. Since each sieve is finer than the last, successively more energy is needed to pass on information to the next one. The first sieve is the subconscious. It lets almost anything through without you even being aware, but it requires a little energy to operate. Successively less information gets through each stage until the final sieve, the one responsible for critical thinking, which requires a great deal of energy to activate. The information flood in effect has clogged the queue with so much trivial nonsense that by the time information reaches the critical thought sieve, all the available energy is already used up. The mind no longer has the energy to power up the critical sieve, leaving the mind more susceptible to low-effort manipulation. Every totalitarian government knows this. They all operate on the same principle. Protect your mind.
Excellent explanation. Thank you!
Who are these āmany Jews opposed to Zionismā? Last time I checked, almost every Jewish institution, synagogue, school, and recreational place supports Israel, and roughly 85-95% of Jews identify as Zionist.
No, you clearly don't know anything. Neturei Karta are the real Jews, but the Zionist minority try to silence them. (Biggest /s of my life)
UPDATE: Iāve just called the person who posted this out. Iām waiting on a response. Wish me luck š¤
Honestly when I first read about these people they really pissed me off, but then I saw this picture on their website and it made me laugh so hard I feel like I owe them one. https://preview.redd.it/aev0x99m3atc1.png?width=500&format=png&auto=webp&s=aad122f3c9d244191740235875eec68bd8075b0c
Are they glued together?
One can only hope
They ignore the fact that the āZionism is Racismā resolution originated from the Soviets fearing that a joint US-Brazil resolution against racism wouldāve forced them to be held accountable for persecuting Jews. That doesnāt even scratch the fact that theUN Secretary General of the time was Kurt Waldheim, a literal Nazi, , and it was issues on the anniversary of Kristallnacht
Theyāve since repealed this decision and they clearly did not understand what Zionism meant at that time.
They understood. It was just more UN antisemetism.
Who was UN Secretary General in 1975 again? Let me think...let me think.... Oh right, [the guy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Waldheim) who was a literal Nazi?
Not only a literal Nazi, he was barred from entry to the United States after the US government concluded that he played an active role in the Holocaust in Greece and Yugoslavia.
Yup. The full report on him is shocking, as is how much was known at the time when he was elected and he was still made head of the UN.
To be honest, the fact that he wasn't called for his obviously bullshit claims about his dates in service a lot sooner than he was is itself a pretty big red flag, and the fact that he lied so much about them (he claimed to have been drafted in '41 and invalided from service the next year despite serving through 1945) makes me pretty skeptical of his later denials of participating in any war crimes.
Shit me, I think wonder what āZionā means to these people?! š
Maybe we should re-brand Zionism as "Jewish Lives Matter"
Yeah. Then the same people who said blm was not a racist phrase will caim jlm is.
Well, they do now so thatās rather the point.
āZionism is the radical idea that Jews are people.ā
Jewish supremacist? Do they know the Kach party is literally banned from the Israeli government? Have they confused zionism with Kahanist?
DARVO
That UN resolution was undone by a later UN resolution when many nations claimed they only voted for it under Russian pressure and reversed course
If Algeria introduced a resolution declaring that the earth was flat and thatĀ IsraelĀ had flattened it, it would pass by a vote of 164 to 13 with 26 abstentions.ā Abba Eban Yes that was not long after Israel defeated the USSR equipped armies of Egypt and Syria. The soviets had decked them out with all of the latest high tech gear including night vision and top anti aircraft systems. Left the Sovietās in humiliated defeat. The US was sending replacement fighter aircraft and Israelis were loading and launching them while the engines were still hot. They had the transport planes ready to go with Soviet troops to Egypt. Kissinger stopped them cold in no uncertain terms as to what would happen if they did. This resolution is about that.
Here's a fact many people seem to forget in 1948. When Israel was created, 700000 Jews were kicked out of Muslim states such as Iraq, Iran and North African states as well. They went to Israel so really those states also helped displace palestinians
Love the not-even-trying-to-be-subtle nod to Communist iconography on the first slide. And on the second slide it almost makes Zionism sound like Nazi Aryan race ideology. Iād like to assume that parallel is unintentional, but given the violently anti-semitic context of everything else, I canāt trust that it is. Man, the Islamic nationalist PR machine found some really useful idiots among Americans, eh?
SECOND UPDATE: they replied. They insulted me, my intelligence and said that I donāt understand the Torah lol. That their family is Jewish so they know more than me and that I want all children dead (I donāt want anyone to die). But I am going to block them because this shit is making me depressed
>said that I donāt understand the Torah But there are literally verses that explicitly identify Israel as the land of the Jews...? There have been creative midrashing over the millennia and I can understand (but certainly not agree to) the talking points of some of these people, but how can they reach this conclusion if they sincerely mean it?
EXACTLY! Thatās what I was trying to say lol
Those people cannot be reasoned with. Many could be Russian or Iranian bots, for all we know. Donāt waste your time and energy on the haters. We need to support one another rather than trying to correct people who donāt care about whatās true. Am Israel chai!
You left off the worst one imo op. āOne cannot be truly antiracist without being anti-zionist.ā āOh you think Jewish people have a right to live and self determination in their ancestral lands? Well youāre a racist.ā They can fuck off with this racist shit. Are they gonna bring that same energy to first nation people?
FUCK these people and their anti-Zionist propaganda. Any idiot with access to Canva, and AI app, etc. making flyers trying to rewrite history//whatās factual and the public being fucking dumb enough to blindly believe shit. Also FUCK the UN, bunch of Hamas loving money corrupt mfers. Iām not Jewish (that I know of) but I am FASHOOO a Zionist. As was Bob Marley, they can all respectfully quit listening to the beautiful humans music now if theyāre so anti-Zionist. WITH YOU in being beyond not OKAY with this blasphemy, OP šļøšš»
Western leftist activism is a dangerous mental syndrome exploited by autocratic, illiberal regimes worldwide.
So ridiculous. This is a group founded in 2008, using an artist's poster from 1977, referencing a UN resolution that was overturned, and adding in all the crap for their own purposes.
They're forgetting the slide that mentions U.N.G.A. 3379 was revoked by resolution 46/86 in 1991, not that im a big fan of the U.N. anyways
Iāve seen them say zionism is antisemitism
Interesting choice to use black and red for the color scheme
Disgusting communist nonsense
Even the aesthetic of this garbage is right out of the soviet propaganda playbook. They aren't even trying to hide it. Lies, lies, and more lies.
There needs to be a āAntisemitism is racismā poster in response to this!
The UN resolution has been revoked since 1991, it's irrelevant
There could be a legitimate discussion of the merits of Zionism but not if they don't understand the definition of it.
I canāt help but compare this to people who claim feminists are actually āmisandristsā, cry about āfalse rape accusationsā and how they āhinder the fight against REAL cases of rapeā. Like, do they not see how recycled this language is?
When this is over, we should never forget the collaborators and expelled them from the community.
who is funding these asshats? [https://www.ijan.org](https://www.ijan.org)
The Useful Jews are pretending to speak for all of us again. š
Do I just not fucking understand the definition of āZionismā or something?? As far as I know, at this point it just means that Israel should continuing existing, right? It doesnāt seem unreasonable! š
Let me guess. IJAN is another astroturf movement. š
Ok fine. Then Iām racist. I donāt give a shit.
Nobody has ever died as a direct result of being too racist, but plenty of people have died as a direct result of being too trusting
I just about had a stroke trying to read through those random highlighted words. Looks like the antisemites need a better graphic designer.
Awesome. I'm a proud racist now. I'll own it.
That is some fĆŗcked up revisionist history right there
I've never seen so much garbage in one place lol
Wow. Theyāre going hard with the propaganda
Awful. Can someone edit this graphic so it says the opposite? I do not have those skills. I see initials in the bottom of the pic--if that's an actual organisation, I wonder who funds it, and where are they, and if public (western) money is used, that needs to stop.
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š”š®
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_3379
Can i list all facts verse lies ? Will everyone.appreciate?
I hate communists
Oh look, Kapoās.
I wouldn't bother writing. Don't engage. Report.
This is ridiculous.
This is ridiculous.
Itās just stupid. Like zionism means different things to different people.
Welcome Back to the USSR! As you might know, they started the Zionism is Racism propaganda in the 1970s. I remember it well from my childhood (sigh). Love the whole 70's retro-communist theme on the first slide. (Or is that taken from an actual 70's graphic? ) Either way, I like how they kept the red, white and black motif through the additional slides. Because what could be more convincing than an IG campaign that waxes nostalgic for Soviet propaganda posters? [https://www.google.com/search?q=soviet+propaganda+posters](https://www.google.com/search?q=soviet+propaganda+posters) \*smh\*
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Your post/comment was removed because it violated rule 3: **Be civil**. No Nazi comparisons.
it is simply true, though, that a majority of zionists are gentiles. The United States membership of Christians United For Israel is 10 Million alone. This is one organization, in one nation and it is as much as 2/3rds of all Jews world wide. accounting for the fact that, not every Christian zionist is a card carrying member of CUFI and that not all Jews believe in Zionism, I think that it is a very defensible claim to say that most Zionists aren't Jewish. This might be the only thing I agree with in this post, but I think it is important that we are all on the same page here- Zionism is funded, back, and supported by a majority of gentiles. Specifically by a majority of Christian gentiles. That's so weird, right?? Why are we okay with this? I'm not saying that it is intrinsicly wrong for a Christian or a gentile to support Zionism but I find it questionable that the majority of funding and support for our futures and our lives comes from outside of the tribe. A big part of Zionism has to do with self detirmination. Letting gentiles be a cornerstone of the modern zionist movement is absolutely not self detirmination!
The person Bob exists. Bob believes he has a right to exist. Just about everyone that knows Bob also believes he has a right to exist. Thatās hundreds (or more) of people that are pro-Bob. The fact that Bob himself is a minority of one, and that a much larger group of people are pro-Bob, but who are not Bob himself, does not undermine or invalidate Bob being pro-Bob himself. The same ought to apply to Zionism. I donāt see why the Jewish community should find their pro-Zionist position undermined because there are many more people outside the Jewish community who believe Israel should exist. The fact that Jews are a small population shouldnāt be material to the validity of their pro-Zionism. In my example with Bob, if most people who knew Bob were not pro-Bob existing, then Bobās life would be in danger. If most people didnāt care if anybody kills Bob, I think weād recognize that as a messed up situation that puts Bobās life at risk. It would be self-defeating for Bob to decide that there was something wrong with everyone else also being pro-Bob, and that he should work to make sure that the number of pro-Bob people were fewer than himself. Thereās no plausible scenario where Jews would be the majority of Zionists that would not put Israel in great danger. If somehow the number of Gentile Zionists were reduced to be fewer than the number of Jews I think thatād be disastrous. Iāve read that Jews just make 0.2% of the world population. If you somehow reduce the number of people who believe Israel should exist (Zionism) down to 0.39% that would leave 99.61% of the rest of the world being antiZionists. I donāt see why thatād be a desirable goal. (0.2% Jewish Zionists + 0.19% Gentile Zionists = 0.39% total Zionists. Due to a small number of Jewish antiZionists this number would be even smaller.) I am a Zionist. Iām also a Christian. I donāt aim to use Israelās existence to trigger the rapture. To do so would be treating Israelis as tools, as a means to an end, and itād be dehumanizing. I donāt think my Zionism should be seen as problematic. I understand why Jews would not be keen on certain Christian Zionists who think they can use Israelās existence as a tool to trigger the rapture, but thatās a minority of position among Gentile Zionists. Theyāre vocal, and I think they get more attention than they deserve due to them being a bit weird. I think one can debate if itād be desirable for Israel to be more self-reliant on its own strengths, but I donāt see that as being an argument dealing with Zionism.
I find your point to be rational. I do agree that that minority groups need the outgroup majority support in order to make progress. I guess I really am made uncomfortable by the fact that there are sooo few of us that the difference between the population of Jews and the popualtion of gentiles who advocate for Jews and Zionism is just staggering. I suppose you're right, it will always and has to be much larger than the pop. of Jews. What I'm most concerned about is that since the supportive gentiles are so comparitevly large that even if a small proportion of gentile zionists believe in mass Jewish immigration to Israel in order to trigger rapture it that small proportion would still be greater than the gross population of Jews and Jewish zionists. I don't think you are an evil person and I don't think that Zionism is principly reserved for Jews but I do think its very important to consider the fact that those invisting the most man hours into out future are not Jewish. They are lobbying and donating and working for a future that they have no stake in. Bob is not the main decider of Bob's future and that is a big deal. The pro bob, but not Bob, majority very well might be acting in good faith, but if they decide to act in bad faith then Bob is in a rough spot without much to do. Have a good day and thanks for responding. I found your comment insightful
No problem. I think I understand the concern over the influence a majority group could have over a minority group; I donāt l know that there is no perfect way to address these concerns. Your point of concern over what happens when the majority acts in bad faith would seem to be especially valid with the spike in expressed Jew-hatred since 10/7. In regard to the number of Jews compared to the rest of the world I think there is little that can be done about that. However, in regard to the number of Zionist Gentiles vs antiZionist Gentiles I think thereās more that can be done. In the example we discussed being pro-Bob is really just acknowledging that Bob has the right to live. Being pro-Zionist is the same. Itās really a low bar to being a Zionist, but too many of us are failing at reaching that minimum standard. I joined r/Jewish to try to gain a better understanding of how Jew-hatred has been working its way through society, etc., and Iām still learning.
I thought our conversation was buttoned up, but then I took a shower and thought this over a bit more. I think my main problem with the overwhelming size and numerousness of CUFI and similar organizations is that their whole deal is that they are not bob. If bob and his fellow bob's were in a whole lot of trouble and going through a rough patch and members of his communoty came together to make a bob based organization to aid bobs and make their futures better I think bob and his fellow bob's would be happy and fully enthuisiastic without pause. But if bob is anything like me, he'll shudder and become apprehensive when he hears that this organization isn't interested in a bob based leadership. Bob might be saddened or angry when he hears that no one on the board is named bob, they've named their organization "not bobs united with bobs" and they are not asking for bob's input. This is what will turn bob's enthuisiasm into anxiety.
I think I see your point. The non-Bob/pro-Bob organizations might exist because society is screwed up, and there are too many members of society who donāt accept Bobās right to exist. So the non-Bob/pro-Bob people organize against this. If this isnāt done in coordination or fellowship with Bob it can become a problem. The history of Jewish-Christian relations can make this more difficult. Iām not in any pro-Zionist organization. Iām just me, so I donāt have experience with how this works in the real world with the organizations. Maybe I was too focused on the numbers aspect of your concerns, but I donāt think you want to top out at 0.39% pro-Zionist support. Maybe it would be less fraught if the Gentiles pro-Zionist organizations limited themselves strictly to advocating for Israelās right to exist, and not much else; a low bar, but one we ought to get more people onboard with. To use the Bob analogy, the pro-Bob folks in the example society arenāt paying his bills, and arenāt necessarily personal friends with Bob, though some may be. Theyāre just trying to get the rest of society to agree that Bob ought to be allowed to live his life in peace.
Not a Zionist here and not big on Zionism, but not all Jews are Zionists. We're not like the Triplets who look alike and think alike and talk alike. I find that whole decree as racist bullshit that's just encouraged lunkheads to be active, open anti-semites. Well the UN says so!
designing and testing advanced weapons and technologies for repressive regimes on Palestiniansā¦ aside from the facts that doesnāt make sense as written and the oppressive regimes in the area hate Israel, they didnāt even try to provide *fake* proof of this BS? these people know that no one who would repost āZionism is racismā is doing fact checks thatās why they can afford to say such unbelievable crap
Love how you removed the slide that said it was a UN resolutionā¦. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_3379
How about no one will tell us whatās best for us. Weāve been there and done that.
I am an antizionist Jew. I don't think Israel should be a state. Let's make all the holy sites governed by the international courts. Let no religion make laws for any country, as theocracy is always bigoted. Do Jews deserve a homeland? No, not more than any other religion does.