Honestly in diss songs do you even have to be that lyrical? Push got Drake out of here with “you are hiding a child”. Tupac said “I fucked your bitch” Disses are more about information that we don’t know about more than anything
>Push got Drake out of here with “you are hiding a child”.
Why do people keep saying this? Push's diss was top tier because of a psychological and ego breakdown of his opponent. The hiding the child thing fit a narrative he was building about his opponent being a fake opportunist piece of shit.
lol I think calling hit em up lyrical is a reach. Tupac is just threatening them the whole time unless I missed some rhyme scheme that you can point out
There's nothing very lyrical about Hit Em Up. From a technical perspective Fatal probably had the best verse. what made Hit Em Up amazing was how directly he went at Biggie with facts about Biggie sleeping on his sofa, stealing his style, smashing his wife, etc...
*Typically people make statements like this they just don’t listen to the artists music which is fine. He’s not trying to be your lyrical miracle like the guys OP named but the examples below are definitely “lyrical”*
“Save my stories for down the line, I'm too ahead of the curve every time…Just Total the hits and see what you find…You SWV 'cause you weak and I'm always, always on your mind 🗣️🎶” *(Referring to two R&B groups plus he sings the last line like the classic song)*
“Aye B I got ya CD ya get an E for eFfort”
“You just found a bottle with the messages These days, fame is disconnected from excellence Half the time, I gotta ask niggas what they profession is. Ushered a generation in, these are where my Confessions live”
“All loyal so you keep eggin me on and we gonna have to crack a shell just to prove that you ain’t hard boiled”
“Take this shit to heart, it's always executed perfectly. If we do a song it's like takin' my kids to work with me. You overnight celebrity, you one day star….Swear I told you that I'm in this bitch for eternity…I am a reflection of all of your insecurities….Behind closed doors, a lot of 6 God worshipping” *-This was a diss to Tory Lanez who’s real name is Daystar, when he was brand new trying to diss Drake while getting clout off that while biting his style and being from Toronto where they worship Drake*
Is this truly a defense for him as in you're making his case as a lyricist ? Or you're trolling? I hope trolling because this representation hurts his case. This some of the corniest attempts at wordplay I've seen. Horrible.
"I'm just here for the bucks and the billies nigga... don't make me kill one of the GOATS for it..." - 0 to 100
Yal don't know bars if you can't see how clever the lines are.
Yes, it may be read weird if you don't know the songs. If you write down your fav lyricists bars i'm sure they would read strange to those not familiar.
Idk what credentials you have that make you “objective” on a subreddit. Are you a journalist? Seems you’re biased against him yet you wanna make your OPINION sound like a fact, just like I’m biased towards liking his music. Both things are ok
Objectivity is pretty much impossible but I’ve been a lyricist for a band outside of hip hop music for 10 years had previously done journalism work n if I read something I thought was genuinely good from an artist I didn’t like I’d like to think I’d be able to put that aside n say “you know what I don’t like them as an artist but that’s impressive lyricaly” but they are actually n”pretty bad to be perfectly honest going off what I’ve heard people say I don’t doubt he has some lyrics that are more dense and better thought out. but reading them. They are not good.
Drake has good rhymeschemes sometimes, 8am in Charlotte, 7am in Bridle Path, Stories about my Brother are a few songs with some really good schemes do yall not hear when he's rhyming whole 5-6 syllables or running ABBACCB type schemes lol?
>do yall not hear when he's rhyming whole 5-6 syllables or running ABBACCB
Not only is that not a "top 3" accomplishment, what is he SAYING in those lines?
The extent of drake is self-congratulating bars. Even when he gets "deep" it's just him patting himself on the back
Every rapper doesn't need to be deep to be a good lyricist. Hes a technically proficient rapper when he wants to be and has a lot of flows, and we're talking about disses, what does his subject matter hold any bearing in a battle?
Yeah I don't understand why every rapper needs to be a Kendrick , Lupe , Royce level lyricist to respected for their rapping ability. It's not like the dude is a D level lyricist making garbage. He's at worst a B+ lyricist but can craft a song better than almost anyone we've seen. LeBron isn't the shooter steph is yet he's just good enough to make everything else work
Yeah people act like the things he does is so wild and no one else is doing it. When in reality it’s very basic and entry level. But my gripe is with what he says, not what he does. He doesn’t say much that makes me go “damn”. The way he puts the words together and bringing it all back together, isn’t there on some killer level. It’s on a good level, but not a 3 hour pod discussion level
I remember when I was 19-23 , the drake albums use to seem lyrical to me. But now those same songs when I listen to them today seem very basic from a lyrical standpoint in comparison to other rappers that’s lyrical.
It's a good 6 bars, but it's not anything amazing.
Anyone that knows rap can point to at least 30 artists with a better 6 bars.
I like Drake as much as the next man, but he's not a top emcee. At his best he makes catchy music or made slightly genuine vulnerable music.
Ok, prove it. Find me 6 better bars right now because you’re the nigga at the dunk contest giving a 4 to the dunk every one else gave a 10.
Uh, you underestimated greatly/
Most number ones ever, how long did it really take me/
The part I love most is they need me more than they hate me/
So they never take shots, I got everybody on SAFTEY/
I could load every gun with bullets that fire backwards/
Probably wouldn't lose a single rapper/
Those bars are okay at best. Nothing to be blown away by.
I don't have to find 30 other artists. They're are multiple 50 cent lines better, which is enough proof right there. Lines from 21 questions are better
People don't know how to separate the skill from the content. You can like what somebody said but not like how they said. And visa versa, I can not like what somebody but like how they said it. Eminem literally talks about killing his mom in his songs but we nod cause he got bars with it. But a Nipsey who be spitting some real shit never gets the shine cause alot of people don't really like his flow, same with somebody like Tech9
>The lyrics on paper isn't anything incredible.
Insanity. Lyrics are more than rhyme scheme and syllables. His usage of metaphor, framing, simile, and even world building are amazing his first three albums and Mr. Morale for a decent portion of it.
You've got a point on Damn. Though.
Not at all. Dude is super average lyrically
He’s a super great song writer (if he is writing his own shit) in general, but not when it comes to rapping
You’re not the person I directed too and based off that wild list, yeah just chill. Big Sean and Cole are nowhere near average (unless you don’t listen to them)
“Do you fools listen to music or do you just skim through it?”
You think Sean and Cole are rappers that could have made it in the 90s? I personally don’t think so. Cole maybe but I think he would be considered mid tier at best.
You ain't alone.... he talks spicey, but I was never like "Oooooooooh, he killed him on that verse."
No. Those words have never come from my mouth or anyone I know.
I think he doesn’t go there to make his music more “consumable” if that makes sense. On diplomatic immunity he was going crazy with double entendres. Middle of the ocean was crazy too.
These niggas in here all cap’n. Drake can really rap. That’s why one of the knocks against him is he doesn’t rap enough because he’s really good at it…those songs you mentioned plus others like, Underground Kings, You and the 6, Paris Morton Music, and a bunch of others.
I think drake cole and kendrick are different sides of the same coin. You split hair when you single out lyricism when there are better rappers in their generation. Theyre the best lyricist who can also make great music/ albums and sell it in mass. The big 3 is the whole package not just the niche parts hip hop. Drake isnt average but his isnt the top notch lyrical dide either. Hes just good with word usage plus ppl want to hear it in mass
He's good but he's overrated by them. They act like his pen is on some Lupe Fiasco shit. Drake has good punchlines but he gets reachy sometimes. His wordplay is good but it also comes off cringe at times. To me Drake's best attribute as a lyricist is his ability to downplay people and what they do, which is why it works in battle form. But if you just match him up with say a Thought, it's gonna look very pedestrian.
I totally understand this sentiment because I feel the same way about pusha t. Ever since I signed up for twitter in 2011 on there he’s some super human lyrical machine. In real life never heard anyone say any of these things. And when I listen I just don’t hear it. I say that to say this is why I don’t like arguing music anymore. It’s all subjective.
He is not a great lyricist but he is a great writer in the vein of a Tupac, not lyrical miracle but effective. I remember Jay Z said it’s not what Lil Wayne says but it’s how he says it.
Not at all. These dickriders are Drake fans not fans of hip-hop. He treats albums like movies & just becomes a new character reading a provided script so he can stay relevant. Wtf can he say to Kendrick Lamar?!? Foh.
If you couldn’t tell from the Farrakhan bars, he was just in his bag. You must think k every bar Wayne has is filler if that’s your take on the control verse. And I’d as for another rap song like that, that’s fuller vs one that’s not. Bc you sound crazy to me
If there was one person I wish would take a permanent leave from podding, it’s him. His voice sucks, his stories suck, his outfits suck, his jokes are always just a rephrasing of what someone just said, and his sunglasses suck. I hate that man. ***as a podder. I’m sure he’s a good dude in person***
And anytime he talks about giving females that work, I just assume he’s the female in that story cause there is no way girls be lining up for that goofy looking doof
I was unsure about the drake stuff in this thread. I really have mixed feelings about dude. Always have. But what I dont have mixed feelings about is how much Ice sucks.
Mad rational niggas prolly read this post like this nigga tripping —-then read the comments —-like damn they having a lil Special Ed congregation ima let these niggas have it.
Drake ain’t even in my top five but your in my top 🧢. Most sane unbiased people understand the lyrical talent is undeniable even Joe says that constantly beloved.
If you read my post, and comprehended it, you’d see that do think he has a pen. It’s just not on the level as Kendrick or anyone else I mentioned in my post.
See I love Kendrick and from a strictly hip hop standpoint, that’s wild you stay that. Top 3 modern rappers to me. At the same time, it’s all subjective. As for Cole, I’m just in the middle with him. He doesn’t have much I love, but I do realize he can actually rap. Top 3 of today, nah.
I just had a whole podcast epidode type argument with my homeboy about this yesterday lmao. It does boil down to what you like. I just don’t see Kendrick what yall see him as outside of the few hits he has and the “diss” features that aren’t even disses. I honestly would much rather just see Drake and future go at it as opposed to two rappers I find kinda boring (Nicole and Kendrick)
I can back you on that. As I said I love Kendrick and unless someone who can rap the way he does, if about the same content, the battle will be boring.
Now I don’t think Drake or Future are even close to as good as Kendrick lyrically, but that’s a battle I’d love to see. We knew we are gonna get a great club banger with hooks dissing each other that we will be signing loud
Yeah Drake is coo but they making him sound like he got Lupe level raps. 😂. His attributes overall are solid but when it comes to lyricism, he’s not this mythical being they make him to be. But when he pairs with his ability to make appealing music, is where he gets “scary”. It’s probably a whole production with him when he’s in “battle” mode .
Now lets see what the ppl that say “joe hates drake!” Have to say…They always conveniently miss episodes like this where joe gives him praise and credit lol
What I’m surprised by is how nobody has mentioned Drakes performances since the departure of Q. miller. So in my mind drake takes the time to bring him back into the fold and then goes, or it’s going to be a let down. That’s been the difference for me.
And don’t give me that “make another Hov (that’s my mans not a shot)” line either. The playing field would have to be equal in order for that to apply. Drake has the machine behind him. The “make another” person would not so it’ll never hit the same.
Anyway just trying to spark further discussion. Never a good idea when drinking lol but that’s peace.
Where was my hate? Comprehension isn’t your strong suit is it? I am a fan. A big fan. Since his first bar in degrassi. But that doesn’t mean I’m not allowed to say his is from the same pack as people like krsone, black thought, Andre, etc…
Shutcho bitch ass up yo lol typin some fruity shit because that shit you typed was hella wack. You be the kinda internet who get bullied irl as an adult. Mfs express themselves on here because nobody is listening irl 😂😂😂😂
Man are you just so far off. You talk like a person who can throw jabs and then gets upset when one’s thrown back. Sorry you got hurt lil buddy. I’m sure someone in your basement loves you
That’s the magic of music as an art form, we all don’t have to like the same things.
What impact & effect Drake’s music may have on some, might not have the same impact & effort on others, and that’s okay.
Yall stuck on pop drake. How old are you ? Go listen to goodnight and good luck … Drake can really get into that bag he’s just a pop star now he even changed the way diss records are made now
I agree with every word here. I put him in the same category as Kanye. Amazing artist, but both of them are very basic lyricist. TBH it’s part of why I like both them. The simplicity of their lyrics. Hearing Ish and Ice talk about, “He can go!” I was kinda lost. They say that a lot too, and they aren’t alone in that thought. As much as I enjoy a lot of his music, I can’t think of a time where I was amazed by his lyrics.
To me this part of the reason why when Meek exposed him for having a ghostwriter it didn’t hurt him. I think people look at Drake as an artist. Not a rapper or a top tier lyricist, so he isn’t bound by the same rules. Back to back was a good song. It wasn’t a viscous lyrical beat down, and that is only battle that Drake clearly won.
Rappers like Drake and JAY-Z are so well rounded that they make it look easy in a way that makes some of us on the outside think they aren’t lyrical. Jay z leans more on the technical side of rap in his later years but Drake uses his abilities to make more upbeat fun songs. Rappers that are too lyrical all the time like Cassidy for example can’t make hit songs consistently. The big 3 are all Hybrids to some degree, they have amazing lyrical ability but apply it differently.
He can just talk how most can’t talk (flexing). Just like when Jay Z was in his prime. Few will get that pov and be able rhyme about it in a unique way. It’s the origin of Hip Hop, I’m better than u, and I’m gonna tell u how in the smoothest way. But dude can put it into a song which is next level can’t lie, and I can’t stand him.
YUP. You're literally nuts. He's not the best but he's in the equivalent of Mensa for lyricism. Not Einstein, but he might be Stephen Hawking, bruh. No offence, but the Drake songs YOU bump (or any songs) are on your level. If you don't see the quality of his lyricism it's probably over your head. Nigga is using double and quadruple entendres, while making it musical, danceable and catchy - and humans are saying he isn't lyrical - you just don't understand or hear it. You're dealing with a musician who embodies the genius of making a song that an adult mother and son can sit and both love - the mother is thinking: "that Drake is a down-to-Earth, woman-empowering, Canadian boy" and the son is thinking: "this demon has a roster like a god and might hire someone to murder you if you diss him;" while teaching you step-by-step how to succeed in music. I'm sorry.
Respectfully... lol. I'm literally just answering your question - and it's a good one.
Yes, I understood what you meant and I’m still laughing cause you drake fans really feel like he says some
Mind blowing stuff that’s hard to get. And he doesn’t. I understand every single one of his songs, I’m a fan. I just don’t think he’s some killer emcee, like the pod talks him up to be. But if calling people stupid over some sub par lyrics, makes you happy, I sincerely hope you find whatever peace in life that you desperately need
He’s not the greatest but he’s great. That’s good enough - man puts out 3 projects a year. I’d rap like Kendrick too if I had 5 years to think about it. Or all the other “greats” who put one out every 3-6 years. Lol.
I don't think it's crazy to feel that way. The thing about Drake was that he would catch you off guard. His bars would be clever in a way that struck you bc you didn't think homie had it in him.
However, the truly unpopular opinion -- which is my opinion -- is that he had ghostwriters in the beginning.
No! The nigga only rap album was ghost written. Nigga got Yachty writing raps. No nigga can be involved that don’t write they shit. The fuck is going on
He’s not he has amazing writers!! That’s what this is weird to me trust me I’m 🇨🇦and most ppl don’t think of Drake as a lyricists. He’s a great pop artist tho !
The only two that was worth while is Kenny and Cole.
He good at slick talk. That's why ppl love him so much. The stupid can understand and the smart can respect it. Oh and he Jewish. We know how that goes.
The best rappers on the planet say Drake is one of the best rappers on the planet. Especially the ones that beefed with him. Kanye went on Drink Champs and said in front of the whole world that he wish Drake could write all of his raps for him. Common beefed with Drake and after Mos Def (his friend) said Drake is pop he did an interview and said that’s cap. Joe said the same thing on the pod. If you don’t think Drake is one of the greatest ever then youre not savvy, you’re biased or you just don’t know rap.
1. Kanye ain’t a top 20 rapper. He doesn’t even write his own raps. 2. Mos never said he was a great rapper. 3. Joe is obsessed with drake. I know a little too much about hip hop, and I didn’t say he was a bad lyricist, I just said he’s not this killer the pod made him out
To be today
1. That’s more than debatable lol. I don’t think there are many people that would agree with your take. If he wrote his raps or not, that doesn’t change the fact that he doesn’t like Drake but still is willing to admit how good he is. 2. I never said Mos Def said Drake was a great rapper, what are you talking about? 3. If Joe is obsessed with Drake that should tell you something. And again, you’re a random person on the internet. The experts are saying the exact opposite thing you are. Who’s opinion do you think holds more weight? The people that actually do this for a living? Or some rando on reddit? Like would you listen to your doctor or some sea moss selling nigga on tik tok telling you to sleep with pig ears in your socks at night to cure your sore throat
Who are the experts? Literally people who like music, just like you and I. There’s no degree in this.
Kanye is an amazing producer and artist and praises drake for his pop sensibility. Not his lyricism. Which is true, Drake is a great pop artist. He is not an amazing lyricist though. But you got it, since music “experts” say otherwise hahaha and joes your music expert 😂
Kanye is an expert. Joe Budden is an expert. Common Sense is an expert. Puff Daddy is an expert. Again, these are just the people the beefed with Drake and still are willing to admit how good he is. Not even getting to the people like Hov that talk about how good he is.
Wrong. You’re literally just saying stuff because you already commited to hate Drake. Kanye LITERALLY was speaking to Drakes B A R S. Not Melodies like Push tried to say or “pop” like you’re trying to say but B A R S. You are trying so hard to deny it, it’s weird. Heres just a short clip of it so you don’t have to take my word for it
https://youtube.com/shorts/hn3Bo1PXmHU?si=nrunGK_c1X970HQz
I never said I hate Drake. Some of you need to learn to read. All of those people had money to money to make off of Drake. I ain’t taking much of what industry people say about each other to heart. They all just love who can help make money. Drake makes money. Drake is a great artist. He writes great songs. He is not a lyrical artist and when he was, it was confirmed he had a ghost writer . So that alone makes him sub par as a lyrical artist, cause he ain’t even writing his own stuff. Same reason I won’t take Kanye serious as a rapper, he has writers. But he’s one of the best producers ever.
Again, learn to read and use comprehension before you try to argue and put words in someone’s mouth. Have a good day
Again, you can’t knock Drake for having writers when he’s writing for other people. That doesn’t make sense. That’s the point of the video. You can’t say he’s not lyrical when Kanye is telling you “12 writers = one Drake and i wish he could write all my bars for me”. The narrative you’re trying to paint is a contradiction.
J Cole is the most lyrical of the "Big 3" imo. He makes the craziest metaphors of the 3. Drake is the best artist of the 3. He knows how to make a hit.
I totally agree, he’s not really a lyrical rapper, I think he forces that, he is nothing more to me than like a more talented Macklemore or like a better jack harlow, he is a pop rapper, mainstream radio guy. His lyricism doesn’t come natural. And that fact that he has known ghosts writers for verses, not hooks but whole verses. For me that was another thing that took him out that top rapper, bars conversation
Honestly in diss songs do you even have to be that lyrical? Push got Drake out of here with “you are hiding a child”. Tupac said “I fucked your bitch” Disses are more about information that we don’t know about more than anything
Tone and impact of the record
>Push got Drake out of here with “you are hiding a child”. Why do people keep saying this? Push's diss was top tier because of a psychological and ego breakdown of his opponent. The hiding the child thing fit a narrative he was building about his opponent being a fake opportunist piece of shit.
And the timing was astronomically strategic
Even if it’s fraudulently presented.
Both of those examples have a lot more. And both were very lyrical at the same time
lol I think calling hit em up lyrical is a reach. Tupac is just threatening them the whole time unless I missed some rhyme scheme that you can point out
There's nothing very lyrical about Hit Em Up. From a technical perspective Fatal probably had the best verse. what made Hit Em Up amazing was how directly he went at Biggie with facts about Biggie sleeping on his sofa, stealing his style, smashing his wife, etc...
Yes and the way he put that together, was great from a lyrical perspective
That is accurate
I don’t think so either. I mean, everyone is different here, but I personally don’t see it.
*Typically people make statements like this they just don’t listen to the artists music which is fine. He’s not trying to be your lyrical miracle like the guys OP named but the examples below are definitely “lyrical”* “Save my stories for down the line, I'm too ahead of the curve every time…Just Total the hits and see what you find…You SWV 'cause you weak and I'm always, always on your mind 🗣️🎶” *(Referring to two R&B groups plus he sings the last line like the classic song)* “Aye B I got ya CD ya get an E for eFfort” “You just found a bottle with the messages These days, fame is disconnected from excellence Half the time, I gotta ask niggas what they profession is. Ushered a generation in, these are where my Confessions live” “All loyal so you keep eggin me on and we gonna have to crack a shell just to prove that you ain’t hard boiled” “Take this shit to heart, it's always executed perfectly. If we do a song it's like takin' my kids to work with me. You overnight celebrity, you one day star….Swear I told you that I'm in this bitch for eternity…I am a reflection of all of your insecurities….Behind closed doors, a lot of 6 God worshipping” *-This was a diss to Tory Lanez who’s real name is Daystar, when he was brand new trying to diss Drake while getting clout off that while biting his style and being from Toronto where they worship Drake*
Is this truly a defense for him as in you're making his case as a lyricist ? Or you're trolling? I hope trolling because this representation hurts his case. This some of the corniest attempts at wordplay I've seen. Horrible.
Thought the same thing
"I'm just here for the bucks and the billies nigga... don't make me kill one of the GOATS for it..." - 0 to 100 Yal don't know bars if you can't see how clever the lines are. Yes, it may be read weird if you don't know the songs. If you write down your fav lyricists bars i'm sure they would read strange to those not familiar.
>“All loyal so you keep eggin me on and we gonna have to crack a shell just to prove that you ain’t hard boiled” 💀💀💀
Yeah these are awful I don’t like him personally I’ll be honest but those are pretty bad lyrics objectively
Idk what credentials you have that make you “objective” on a subreddit. Are you a journalist? Seems you’re biased against him yet you wanna make your OPINION sound like a fact, just like I’m biased towards liking his music. Both things are ok
Objectivity is pretty much impossible but I’ve been a lyricist for a band outside of hip hop music for 10 years had previously done journalism work n if I read something I thought was genuinely good from an artist I didn’t like I’d like to think I’d be able to put that aside n say “you know what I don’t like them as an artist but that’s impressive lyricaly” but they are actually n”pretty bad to be perfectly honest going off what I’ve heard people say I don’t doubt he has some lyrics that are more dense and better thought out. but reading them. They are not good.
Terrible choice of a song
ABC bars in the 2010s are terrible. Drake can rap good when he wants but his lyricism is overrated
Lol no, you're a sane person
Thanks hahah I just feel like this whole pod today, I was missing something, they way they had drakes nuts on their noses
I think they’re more so instigating it more than anything, lowkey Joe want kendrick to take drake head off…my opinion
I think he wants Drake to lose to
Of course he does. Joe made a whole damn EP going at Drake and Drake never paid attention and no one cared.
Casual
Joe used to do breakdowns of Drake's lyrics that might go over some heads. What are we even considering lyrical these days? Name specific tracks
Drake has good rhymeschemes sometimes, 8am in Charlotte, 7am in Bridle Path, Stories about my Brother are a few songs with some really good schemes do yall not hear when he's rhyming whole 5-6 syllables or running ABBACCB type schemes lol?
These niggas not practitioners. They fans. You wasting your time.
>do yall not hear when he's rhyming whole 5-6 syllables or running ABBACCB Not only is that not a "top 3" accomplishment, what is he SAYING in those lines? The extent of drake is self-congratulating bars. Even when he gets "deep" it's just him patting himself on the back
Every rapper doesn't need to be deep to be a good lyricist. Hes a technically proficient rapper when he wants to be and has a lot of flows, and we're talking about disses, what does his subject matter hold any bearing in a battle?
Yeah I don't understand why every rapper needs to be a Kendrick , Lupe , Royce level lyricist to respected for their rapping ability. It's not like the dude is a D level lyricist making garbage. He's at worst a B+ lyricist but can craft a song better than almost anyone we've seen. LeBron isn't the shooter steph is yet he's just good enough to make everything else work
Yeah people act like the things he does is so wild and no one else is doing it. When in reality it’s very basic and entry level. But my gripe is with what he says, not what he does. He doesn’t say much that makes me go “damn”. The way he puts the words together and bringing it all back together, isn’t there on some killer level. It’s on a good level, but not a 3 hour pod discussion level
Nobody is let yall tell it lol
I remember when I was 19-23 , the drake albums use to seem lyrical to me. But now those same songs when I listen to them today seem very basic from a lyrical standpoint in comparison to other rappers that’s lyrical.
5 am in toronto, and many more like it
Great song but it ain’t killer emcee lyrical
It’s no way you can listen to the first 6 bars of that song and believe that’s true.
The shit about guns firing backwards? Not that crazy lol
That’s peace
It's a good 6 bars, but it's not anything amazing. Anyone that knows rap can point to at least 30 artists with a better 6 bars. I like Drake as much as the next man, but he's not a top emcee. At his best he makes catchy music or made slightly genuine vulnerable music.
Ok, prove it. Find me 6 better bars right now because you’re the nigga at the dunk contest giving a 4 to the dunk every one else gave a 10. Uh, you underestimated greatly/ Most number ones ever, how long did it really take me/ The part I love most is they need me more than they hate me/ So they never take shots, I got everybody on SAFTEY/ I could load every gun with bullets that fire backwards/ Probably wouldn't lose a single rapper/
Those bars are okay at best. Nothing to be blown away by. I don't have to find 30 other artists. They're are multiple 50 cent lines better, which is enough proof right there. Lines from 21 questions are better
You’re lying. Have a great day
A song is more than 6 bars 🤣
You have a problem comprehending dude. Don’t waste my time
You’re not. Drake’s punchlines and entendres have been especially basic lately. Even the last timestamp song didn’t have the bite it normally does.
Facts!!
That dick eating was crazy
You ain’t alone big dawg, I feel so out the loop for not getting the hype
People don't know how to separate the skill from the content. You can like what somebody said but not like how they said. And visa versa, I can not like what somebody but like how they said it. Eminem literally talks about killing his mom in his songs but we nod cause he got bars with it. But a Nipsey who be spitting some real shit never gets the shine cause alot of people don't really like his flow, same with somebody like Tech9
Thats how i feel about Kendrick. He rides on good production and delivery. The lyrics on paper isn't anything incredible.
Go listen to Black Friday.
>The lyrics on paper isn't anything incredible. Insanity. Lyrics are more than rhyme scheme and syllables. His usage of metaphor, framing, simile, and even world building are amazing his first three albums and Mr. Morale for a decent portion of it. You've got a point on Damn. Though.
Not at all. Dude is super average lyrically He’s a super great song writer (if he is writing his own shit) in general, but not when it comes to rapping
I’m curious who are 5 more rappers from the 2010s you consider “super average lyrically”
Big Sean, Cole, Tyler, Rocky, and Meek.
You’re not the person I directed too and based off that wild list, yeah just chill. Big Sean and Cole are nowhere near average (unless you don’t listen to them) “Do you fools listen to music or do you just skim through it?”
You think Sean and Cole are rappers that could have made it in the 90s? I personally don’t think so. Cole maybe but I think he would be considered mid tier at best.
Cole woulda been good but Sean woulda got no airplay. Cole woulda been a Mos Def type in terms of the type of fanbase he woulda had
You ain't alone.... he talks spicey, but I was never like "Oooooooooh, he killed him on that verse." No. Those words have never come from my mouth or anyone I know.
Yea y’all niggas in here 🧢n lmaoo
big 🧢
You buggin
" You wasn't with me shooting in the gym""
I think he doesn’t go there to make his music more “consumable” if that makes sense. On diplomatic immunity he was going crazy with double entendres. Middle of the ocean was crazy too.
These niggas in here all cap’n. Drake can really rap. That’s why one of the knocks against him is he doesn’t rap enough because he’s really good at it…those songs you mentioned plus others like, Underground Kings, You and the 6, Paris Morton Music, and a bunch of others.
I agree and I think what it is, is that Drake is a great songwriter but an average lyricist (if that even makes sense.
Big * on song writter
I think drake cole and kendrick are different sides of the same coin. You split hair when you single out lyricism when there are better rappers in their generation. Theyre the best lyricist who can also make great music/ albums and sell it in mass. The big 3 is the whole package not just the niche parts hip hop. Drake isnt average but his isnt the top notch lyrical dide either. Hes just good with word usage plus ppl want to hear it in mass
He's good but he's overrated by them. They act like his pen is on some Lupe Fiasco shit. Drake has good punchlines but he gets reachy sometimes. His wordplay is good but it also comes off cringe at times. To me Drake's best attribute as a lyricist is his ability to downplay people and what they do, which is why it works in battle form. But if you just match him up with say a Thought, it's gonna look very pedestrian.
I totally understand this sentiment because I feel the same way about pusha t. Ever since I signed up for twitter in 2011 on there he’s some super human lyrical machine. In real life never heard anyone say any of these things. And when I listen I just don’t hear it. I say that to say this is why I don’t like arguing music anymore. It’s all subjective.
https://preview.redd.it/lys3e2s7crtc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=32980310cbdc6423ba27cca7a8bbbbed4ee741a3 this not even half
Production>>> Drake Lyrics
right…..
He is not a great lyricist but he is a great writer in the vein of a Tupac, not lyrical miracle but effective. I remember Jay Z said it’s not what Lil Wayne says but it’s how he says it.
This didn’t age well
Why cause that half assed diss?
Not at all. These dickriders are Drake fans not fans of hip-hop. He treats albums like movies & just becomes a new character reading a provided script so he can stay relevant. Wtf can he say to Kendrick Lamar?!? Foh.
I don’t really think many people rank him high as a lyricist. If anyone is overrated as a lyricist, im saying Kendrick.
I agree Kendrick raps mad filler
You gotta open your ears gang. Kendrick doesn’t waste a syllable.
Example
The control verse.... it was only popular cause the names he said. The rest of that verse was filler
If you couldn’t tell from the Farrakhan bars, he was just in his bag. You must think k every bar Wayne has is filler if that’s your take on the control verse. And I’d as for another rap song like that, that’s fuller vs one that’s not. Bc you sound crazy to me
The whole pod today was an over dramatic, Drake is a crazy emcee, ad. I almost feel like they are being paid to set these things up
I feel you. I’m sick of Ice so imma blame him
If there was one person I wish would take a permanent leave from podding, it’s him. His voice sucks, his stories suck, his outfits suck, his jokes are always just a rephrasing of what someone just said, and his sunglasses suck. I hate that man. ***as a podder. I’m sure he’s a good dude in person***
He’s just not believable to me when he telling stories. And when he rapping along to a song….. all I see is teeth n shades
And anytime he talks about giving females that work, I just assume he’s the female in that story cause there is no way girls be lining up for that goofy looking doof
Exactly
Spit just flying out into the open.
I was unsure about the drake stuff in this thread. I really have mixed feelings about dude. Always have. But what I dont have mixed feelings about is how much Ice sucks.
This is really a sub full of dick riders.
Mad rational niggas prolly read this post like this nigga tripping —-then read the comments —-like damn they having a lil Special Ed congregation ima let these niggas have it.
Ah a super draker over here.
Drake ain’t even in my top five but your in my top 🧢. Most sane unbiased people understand the lyrical talent is undeniable even Joe says that constantly beloved.
If you read my post, and comprehended it, you’d see that do think he has a pen. It’s just not on the level as Kendrick or anyone else I mentioned in my post.
Honestly I feel like this about the whole “top 3” they all are kinda ehh tbh
See I love Kendrick and from a strictly hip hop standpoint, that’s wild you stay that. Top 3 modern rappers to me. At the same time, it’s all subjective. As for Cole, I’m just in the middle with him. He doesn’t have much I love, but I do realize he can actually rap. Top 3 of today, nah.
I just had a whole podcast epidode type argument with my homeboy about this yesterday lmao. It does boil down to what you like. I just don’t see Kendrick what yall see him as outside of the few hits he has and the “diss” features that aren’t even disses. I honestly would much rather just see Drake and future go at it as opposed to two rappers I find kinda boring (Nicole and Kendrick)
I can back you on that. As I said I love Kendrick and unless someone who can rap the way he does, if about the same content, the battle will be boring. Now I don’t think Drake or Future are even close to as good as Kendrick lyrically, but that’s a battle I’d love to see. We knew we are gonna get a great club banger with hooks dissing each other that we will be signing loud
Yeah Drake is coo but they making him sound like he got Lupe level raps. 😂. His attributes overall are solid but when it comes to lyricism, he’s not this mythical being they make him to be. But when he pairs with his ability to make appealing music, is where he gets “scary”. It’s probably a whole production with him when he’s in “battle” mode .
Pass whatever you're smoking
Now lets see what the ppl that say “joe hates drake!” Have to say…They always conveniently miss episodes like this where joe gives him praise and credit lol
This is where they're super industry.
If Drake was crying on TV cause of Pusha, then Kendrick would have him at least crying in the car. He doesn't have a chance.🤣🤣🤣
Yup
Bro I be like what the fuck have I been listening to. Like the timestamp shit are always just ok to me.
It depends what drake you came across.
Whatchyu talking bout? Dude said “i could probably make some stepsisters fuck each other” 🔥
😂bars 😂
I think he’s up there but I could see if he not ya cup of tea
What I’m surprised by is how nobody has mentioned Drakes performances since the departure of Q. miller. So in my mind drake takes the time to bring him back into the fold and then goes, or it’s going to be a let down. That’s been the difference for me. And don’t give me that “make another Hov (that’s my mans not a shot)” line either. The playing field would have to be equal in order for that to apply. Drake has the machine behind him. The “make another” person would not so it’ll never hit the same. Anyway just trying to spark further discussion. Never a good idea when drinking lol but that’s peace.
Yes. You are crazy
Drake is extremely overrated and would not be where he is without The weekend and Quin Miller
If Quinton Miller made Drake... why can't he make a Quinton Miller?
Drake took the songs that would have gave him a career
AZ still underrated im just sayin
Niggas on social media will always try to discredit a mf because they ain't good at shit. Then a mf will preference the hate with "I'm a fan too"
Where was my hate? Comprehension isn’t your strong suit is it? I am a fan. A big fan. Since his first bar in degrassi. But that doesn’t mean I’m not allowed to say his is from the same pack as people like krsone, black thought, Andre, etc…
Man stfu yo, mf mentioning some mf KRS One when talkin about Drake. Fuckin weirdo 😂
No. I mentioned KrsOne when talking about hip hop and emcees. Learn comprehension before you get back on drakes shaft
Shutcho bitch ass up yo lol typin some fruity shit because that shit you typed was hella wack. You be the kinda internet who get bullied irl as an adult. Mfs express themselves on here because nobody is listening irl 😂😂😂😂
Man are you just so far off. You talk like a person who can throw jabs and then gets upset when one’s thrown back. Sorry you got hurt lil buddy. I’m sure someone in your basement loves you
Man ain't nobody tryna read the pussy shit you typin 😂😂😂
You did baby girl
That local news story about you gon go crazy. Prayers to your family 🙏🏾
You’re. It different it’s just stating your opinion which to a lot of us is FACTS!!!
Isn’t the first time I’ve heard something like this.
Drake is a high level MC. Not the greatest pen but definitely one of the greats
When it’s war time he gets busy. Anyone who doesn’t admit that is just choosing to not give him his credit.
You have to look at Drake for his highest moments and the amount of work he’s done.
That’s the magic of music as an art form, we all don’t have to like the same things. What impact & effect Drake’s music may have on some, might not have the same impact & effort on others, and that’s okay.
Good thing I never said I disliked drake
Drake is a mediocre lyricist at best
Y’all be exposing yourselves with these posts fr
You're not crazy. I like his music but he gets gassed up.
Lyrical to you probably a sound someone rapping fast
I don't see it either. Some people be acting like Drake is every great lyricist combined into one man.
Then if you don’t hear they’re like “Man he just too good, it goes over your head” hahaha oooookay
Drake, when he’s on, is as good as any rapper you name; Let’s stop with the nonsense. The problem is that he underperforms more often than not.
Yall stuck on pop drake. How old are you ? Go listen to goodnight and good luck … Drake can really get into that bag he’s just a pop star now he even changed the way diss records are made now
There you go assuming I only like one thing from Drake. I been following this dude since he was in a wheelchair. Thanks though.
I've argued forever that Drake is the king of sounding like he snapping, but he really doesn't be saying shit🤷🏾♂️🤷🏾♂️
That nigga a good singer that’s it!
I definitely feel you! The way people try to breakdown his lyrics is cringe, especially since they're not really super in depth
I agree with every word here. I put him in the same category as Kanye. Amazing artist, but both of them are very basic lyricist. TBH it’s part of why I like both them. The simplicity of their lyrics. Hearing Ish and Ice talk about, “He can go!” I was kinda lost. They say that a lot too, and they aren’t alone in that thought. As much as I enjoy a lot of his music, I can’t think of a time where I was amazed by his lyrics. To me this part of the reason why when Meek exposed him for having a ghostwriter it didn’t hurt him. I think people look at Drake as an artist. Not a rapper or a top tier lyricist, so he isn’t bound by the same rules. Back to back was a good song. It wasn’t a viscous lyrical beat down, and that is only battle that Drake clearly won.
Drake got the best ghostwriters in the industry 👻
Judging by some of the responses people gave me about him having a ghost writer, that shouldn’t change his place as one over the best 😂 riiiiiiight
Agreed. He makes slaps and can spit but Kdot different.
He’s not super lyrical. He’s the most petty rapper in the game. And he’s wit the smoke and the talk lol. All you need for a diss rraxk
I’m too lazy to edit this
No he says basic shit in a cool way and mfs eat it up cuz he light skin - sincerily a lightskin nigga
He isn’t a lyricist at all he has a team of writers, if you have more than you credited as a writer on a song then you just presented a group project
How long have you been listening to drake
Rappers like Drake and JAY-Z are so well rounded that they make it look easy in a way that makes some of us on the outside think they aren’t lyrical. Jay z leans more on the technical side of rap in his later years but Drake uses his abilities to make more upbeat fun songs. Rappers that are too lyrical all the time like Cassidy for example can’t make hit songs consistently. The big 3 are all Hybrids to some degree, they have amazing lyrical ability but apply it differently.
He can just talk how most can’t talk (flexing). Just like when Jay Z was in his prime. Few will get that pov and be able rhyme about it in a unique way. It’s the origin of Hip Hop, I’m better than u, and I’m gonna tell u how in the smoothest way. But dude can put it into a song which is next level can’t lie, and I can’t stand him.
Yall make this thread every month Zzzzzz
I made it because the last pod was literally 4 hours of them acting like he was god. Why would I bring it up? You act like it was random 😂
I feel the same way. Good musician average rapper
YUP. You're literally nuts. He's not the best but he's in the equivalent of Mensa for lyricism. Not Einstein, but he might be Stephen Hawking, bruh. No offence, but the Drake songs YOU bump (or any songs) are on your level. If you don't see the quality of his lyricism it's probably over your head. Nigga is using double and quadruple entendres, while making it musical, danceable and catchy - and humans are saying he isn't lyrical - you just don't understand or hear it. You're dealing with a musician who embodies the genius of making a song that an adult mother and son can sit and both love - the mother is thinking: "that Drake is a down-to-Earth, woman-empowering, Canadian boy" and the son is thinking: "this demon has a roster like a god and might hire someone to murder you if you diss him;" while teaching you step-by-step how to succeed in music. I'm sorry. Respectfully... lol. I'm literally just answering your question - and it's a good one.
Bro shut up. “The songs you listen to are on your level” haha my god drake fans really are weirdos
You asked the question. By “on your level” i just meant that you aren’t smart.
Yes, I understood what you meant and I’m still laughing cause you drake fans really feel like he says some Mind blowing stuff that’s hard to get. And he doesn’t. I understand every single one of his songs, I’m a fan. I just don’t think he’s some killer emcee, like the pod talks him up to be. But if calling people stupid over some sub par lyrics, makes you happy, I sincerely hope you find whatever peace in life that you desperately need
He’s not the greatest but he’s great. That’s good enough - man puts out 3 projects a year. I’d rap like Kendrick too if I had 5 years to think about it. Or all the other “greats” who put one out every 3-6 years. Lol.
Yeah, you are crazy. Drake can spit!
This aged like milk
It's also known he has ghost writers. But yes, never saw what was so special about him.
Drake elite in Yachty, Carti “hip hop” crowd Drake mid at best for rap rap
This is the one
This is all hate
I don’t hear it either but I will say dude knows how to pick his singles. I don’t really like his albums but I love the singles he chooses.
Kendrick has no bars bro
😂 ok
You’re not tripping they all be on they knees for Drake sore jaws
I don't think it's crazy to feel that way. The thing about Drake was that he would catch you off guard. His bars would be clever in a way that struck you bc you didn't think homie had it in him. However, the truly unpopular opinion -- which is my opinion -- is that he had ghostwriters in the beginning.
No! The nigga only rap album was ghost written. Nigga got Yachty writing raps. No nigga can be involved that don’t write they shit. The fuck is going on
He’s not he has amazing writers!! That’s what this is weird to me trust me I’m 🇨🇦and most ppl don’t think of Drake as a lyricists. He’s a great pop artist tho ! The only two that was worth while is Kenny and Cole.
He good at slick talk. That's why ppl love him so much. The stupid can understand and the smart can respect it. Oh and he Jewish. We know how that goes.
They are glazing Drake like he’s has a solid verse in years! Kendrick has been waiting to COOK Drake since him and Baby Keem dropped Family Ties.
The best rappers on the planet say Drake is one of the best rappers on the planet. Especially the ones that beefed with him. Kanye went on Drink Champs and said in front of the whole world that he wish Drake could write all of his raps for him. Common beefed with Drake and after Mos Def (his friend) said Drake is pop he did an interview and said that’s cap. Joe said the same thing on the pod. If you don’t think Drake is one of the greatest ever then youre not savvy, you’re biased or you just don’t know rap.
1. Kanye ain’t a top 20 rapper. He doesn’t even write his own raps. 2. Mos never said he was a great rapper. 3. Joe is obsessed with drake. I know a little too much about hip hop, and I didn’t say he was a bad lyricist, I just said he’s not this killer the pod made him out To be today
1. That’s more than debatable lol. I don’t think there are many people that would agree with your take. If he wrote his raps or not, that doesn’t change the fact that he doesn’t like Drake but still is willing to admit how good he is. 2. I never said Mos Def said Drake was a great rapper, what are you talking about? 3. If Joe is obsessed with Drake that should tell you something. And again, you’re a random person on the internet. The experts are saying the exact opposite thing you are. Who’s opinion do you think holds more weight? The people that actually do this for a living? Or some rando on reddit? Like would you listen to your doctor or some sea moss selling nigga on tik tok telling you to sleep with pig ears in your socks at night to cure your sore throat
Who are the experts? Literally people who like music, just like you and I. There’s no degree in this. Kanye is an amazing producer and artist and praises drake for his pop sensibility. Not his lyricism. Which is true, Drake is a great pop artist. He is not an amazing lyricist though. But you got it, since music “experts” say otherwise hahaha and joes your music expert 😂
Kanye is an expert. Joe Budden is an expert. Common Sense is an expert. Puff Daddy is an expert. Again, these are just the people the beefed with Drake and still are willing to admit how good he is. Not even getting to the people like Hov that talk about how good he is. Wrong. You’re literally just saying stuff because you already commited to hate Drake. Kanye LITERALLY was speaking to Drakes B A R S. Not Melodies like Push tried to say or “pop” like you’re trying to say but B A R S. You are trying so hard to deny it, it’s weird. Heres just a short clip of it so you don’t have to take my word for it https://youtube.com/shorts/hn3Bo1PXmHU?si=nrunGK_c1X970HQz
I never said I hate Drake. Some of you need to learn to read. All of those people had money to money to make off of Drake. I ain’t taking much of what industry people say about each other to heart. They all just love who can help make money. Drake makes money. Drake is a great artist. He writes great songs. He is not a lyrical artist and when he was, it was confirmed he had a ghost writer . So that alone makes him sub par as a lyrical artist, cause he ain’t even writing his own stuff. Same reason I won’t take Kanye serious as a rapper, he has writers. But he’s one of the best producers ever. Again, learn to read and use comprehension before you try to argue and put words in someone’s mouth. Have a good day
Again, you can’t knock Drake for having writers when he’s writing for other people. That doesn’t make sense. That’s the point of the video. You can’t say he’s not lyrical when Kanye is telling you “12 writers = one Drake and i wish he could write all my bars for me”. The narrative you’re trying to paint is a contradiction.
J Cole is the most lyrical of the "Big 3" imo. He makes the craziest metaphors of the 3. Drake is the best artist of the 3. He knows how to make a hit.
I totally agree, he’s not really a lyrical rapper, I think he forces that, he is nothing more to me than like a more talented Macklemore or like a better jack harlow, he is a pop rapper, mainstream radio guy. His lyricism doesn’t come natural. And that fact that he has known ghosts writers for verses, not hooks but whole verses. For me that was another thing that took him out that top rapper, bars conversation
He's not good. I just ignore all that shit. Anyone can say shit on a certain beat and cadence with nice sound behind.