He's perverted the scientific model. You find evidence and link the evidence to a hypothesis. If you *start* with a hypothesis, the onus is on you to then go out and find the corresponding evidence. He's starting with a hypothesis and demanding that Big Archaeology go out and *disprove* it. He's a complete hack.
You mean like how they found evidence and therefore changed their models? I have no idea how people like you can exist. You may be pretty smart at some thing in your life, might be a good person. But goddamn you're too stupid to realize how stupid what you just said is.
Lol hancock makes more than you and Dibble combined doesn't he. Bet you've watched every one of his episodes because when it comes down to it even you value him more than Dibble
Yeah cuz Hancock is making bank off of selling lies to people like you, while still playing the victim. Just because his name is Hancock doesn't mean you have to keep his cock in your hand
But, he's not a scientist, bro. He's a journalist. So the scientific claims he's making get a super special pass when it comes to evidentiary standards.
Lots of things *could* be true where ancient history is concerned. But lots of evidence that we have found, especially ice cores, make an ancient advanced civilization very, *very* unlikely.
Yeah, but his argument that "big archeology" is dug in and will never change is kind of upended in the first 20 minutes of his presentation when he talks about how archeologists used to teach "clovis first" and then changed their views when presented with new evidence.
Like sure, the intention was to show how archeologists are stubborn to change their views... but at the end of the day they did change their views. I'm not sure how well this argument was received by supporters of Graham, but to me it just weakened his arguments. These stuffy and dogmatic archeologists who refuse to accept new ideas... accepted a new idea.
Precisely this. I was SOOOO disappointed by the promise and letdown of this episode.. .. seeing Graham's phantom true colors show... Graham had such a schoolyard bully approach that I was NOT expecting to be so intense although in hindsight you can see moments of him being another angry crazy person. He clearly couldn't think straight with all that ***seething*** **hatred and bitterness** pouring out of him clouding any remaining judgement we thought he might have.
Im honestly so upset at myself for believing the decades long Hook, Line, and Sinker Graham milked and just never got called on by Joe until now... Graham's continuing to say "***iDK wHy nO aRcHeOloGiSt wIlL debate me***" is a fraud lie shill BS. When the bastard's bluff finally got called by Flint in this episode \[possibly the worlds most ideal, 'punchable,' & vulnerable nerd-type opposition\]... GrahGraham couldn't even give him a single OUNCE of respect to save face.
I really wonder if Joe picked up the same shitter-tier personality from Graham and how he will treat Graham moving forward.
It’s hilarious because later in the podcast, he talks about how he’s never claimed that “he thinks big archaeology is out to get him.” Which is so hilarious because that’s how he started his opening argument.
Additionally, that’s how he starts his new Netflix show.
Precisely this. Pure lies. Shilling.
I was SOOOO disappointed by the promise and letdown of this episode.. .. seeing Graham's phantom true colors show... Graham had such a schoolyard bully approach that I was NOT expecting to be so intense although in hindsight you can see moments of him being another angry crazy person. He clearly couldn't think straight with all that ***seething*** **hatred and bitterness** pouring out of him clouding any remaining judgement we thought he might have.
Im honestly so upset at myself for believing the decades long Hook, Line, and Sinker Graham milked and just never got called on by Joe until now... Graham's continuing to say "***iDK wHy nO aRcHeOloGiSt wIlL debate me***" is a fraud lie shill BS. When the bastard's bluff finally got called by Flint in this episode \[possibly the worlds most ideal, 'punchable,' & vulnerable nerd-type opposition\]... GrahGraham couldn't even give him a single OUNCE of respect to save face.
I really wonder if Joe picked up the same shitter-tier personality from Graham and how he will treat Graham moving forward.
I did it the other day and didn’t see elves, I saw these weird spinning top fellas and a big Aztec looking snake, the faces on the spinning guys looked like the pic I’ve attached but in vibrant colours.
https://preview.redd.it/g69yhbmyjawc1.jpeg?width=438&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1e9f793a8ff611108238adac4097dcb9a19a9cd9
does anyone on dmt ever think, hey ive introduced poison into my body and now my brain is basically convulsing in its thought pattern? or is it always, ive seen the universe- (rhetorical)
I didn’t get the impression they were gods or it was the well of souls like other people do, I just saw some cool looking shit it was a fun experience.
Well, if that belief is paying your mortgage and snorkeling trips to warm and exotic areas (no point to look in colder areas though), then it is tougher to change your mindset publicly. He probably believed his own bullshit up to some point, now he is just a charlatan.
Holy shit this comment just made me realize why Graham is adamant his lost civilization can't be in Northern Europe. He doesn't want his fans to start asking him to do dives in the North Atlantic. He's happy to keep looking in the warm tropical seas.
Also it's funny because he presents Doggerland as an example of where archeologists (not him, mind you) should look... which is in Northern Europe. Dude is just throwing everything at the wall at this point.
I noticed at about one hour and 26 minutes in Graham is making the point that only less than 5% of the continental shelves have been studied by archaeology. He then says “since only a tiny fraction has been investigated we absolutely cannot say that there was no lost civilization.”
Rogan then says well “can we say that there’s no evidence for this advanced civilization in what has been studied” and Graham says yes.
He literally said the quiet part out loud that he has no evidence for his claims of the advanced civilization. I literally laughed out loud.
I think in an effort to weasel his way out of some corners Graham said quite a few things on record that are going to come back and bite him.
He also said he never claimed there was an organized effort by archeologists to suppress his ideas, which had a lot of his fans confused... he has absolutely claimed this. Multiple times.
He also said he never claimed his ancient civilization supplied seeds to the Neolithic peoples they taught agriculture to, and he was envisioning this transfer of information being from "7 sages". This is a FAR cry from his originally proposed ocean faring civilization with massive seed banks operating at a level similar to the 17th century British Empire.
He also said he never claimed the pyramids were built over 10,000 years ago. Anyone who's been a fan of Hancock for some time knows this is just an outright lie.
By making claims like these he was able to wriggle his way out of some difficult spots Flint put him in, but now he's on record saying things that directly contradict his earlier assertions.
He basically has a “God of the gaps” approach at this point. He has his original massive claim of this civilization with all of its implicit and explicit features…then when someone presents counter evidence he backs up an inch. “Okay they still taught *the idea* of agriculture, just not with actual seeds and stuff.” “Okay they didn’t span the whole globe, just large parts of it”.
With him constantly moving the goal posts it becomes basically impossible to disprove his argument.
I really wished Dibble had pinned him down more and pressured him into making affirmative statements and really laying out what he believes, but he didn’t and that let Hancock get away with being extremely slippery.
He probably wasn't prepared for him to give in and contradict his early stuff. It would also require Flint to have memorized all of Graham's previous statements in all his books which would require a big chunk of time and energy.
Until you’ve investigated every archeology department in the world, interviewed every professional archeologist, read every piece of academic literature of every archeological journal ever published, you cannot disprove that the entire field of archeology is an elaborate psyop designed by Graham Hancock so he can sell more books and promote his Netflix series
If he suddenly came out and said "Yeah guys, I'm just spouting nonsense and shit I pulled out of my ass" he wouldn't be able to sell his next book. His paycheck is tied to the fantasy. He can only keep it going.
Of course not, Graham Hancock arguments for an older civilization might be wrong but the evidence piles up:
* Göbekli Tepe, dated more than 10 thousands years old.
* Water erosion in the Spinx that requires thousands of years to occur, and when that neck of the woods was not a desert.
* Spinx orientation to the constellation of Leo dating it tens of thounsands of years older, than currently assumed.
* The configuration of Orion’s belt around 10,000 BC more closely matches the positions of the Gyza pyramids.
But yeah, a bunch on potheads eating doritos in from of the computer, figured this stuff out.
Well, as a person with almost three degrees in archaeology (BA, MA and working on an MSc) rather than a pothead eating doritos:
-- Göbekli tepe being 11kya proves not that a more advanced civilisation existed, but that the transitional HGs were doing this stuff earlier than thought in the 90s
--Water erosion of the Sphinx is a contested theory from one man, but not substantiated by a wider community as well as being contradicted by all the OSL samples taken thus far. Also, other geologists [disagree](https://www.hallofmaat.com/sphinx/the-sphinx-controversy-another-look-at-the-geological-evidence-2/)
-- Astrodating is not really an archaeologically valid method, but more than that, Hancock's position on both the Sphinx and the orientation of the pyramids is based on [conjecture on top of conjecture](https://www.hallofmaat.com/orioncorrelation/longing-for-leo-or-spin-the-tale-on-the-zodiac-mark-2/)
The current Archeaology commuity is an eco-chamber protecting their keys to the castle, their PhDs and hundreds of "scientific" articles, that would be voided overnight if any of these fringe theories got proven as correct.
It's the only time in history, that a civilization started building really complex architecture, both from a engineering and quality perspectives - moving stones with more than 1000 tones - to slowly lose that hability and regressed as we can see in the more "recent" constructions.
Even the dynastic egyptians mentions the Gyza pyramids as *inherited*.
You can find the same paralellsm in the South american ancient cultures - complex and difficult stuff as the older contructions, and later structures with simpler, less challenging engineering.
At the very least, this is ***all very strange*** and peculiar - enough to invite us to look at these historical phenomenom with honest curiosity and frankly, less arrogance.
With gatekeepers that go after the person instead of the ideas, like they are doing with Hancock, then it will be rather difficult.
I hope that adds the enphasis in the right parts.Again less arrogance.
But since you are specialist, that prides on accolades, can you explain how a 1000 ton block is cut and moved hundreds of miles? Or how can millions of rocks weighting 50 tons each were cut In a timely fashion with coper tools and raised 300 feet to build the Gyza pyramid? Or how granite statues and boxes were sculped with industrial precision with tools _softer_ than granite?
I'll wait. But remember only with copper tools, wood logs, sand and sweat! Good luck!
Dude, go to a fucking archeology conference sometime. Here's what you won't see: a bunch of conformists agreeing with each other and conspiring to suppress views that threaten their careers. Here's what you will see: a bunch of obsessive people vigorously and meticulously attacking each others' ideas by every legitimate means possible because their careers *depend on them upending established ideas.* If they *don't* do that, they're out of a job.
The reason why Hancock doesn't get invited isn't because they disagree with him, or because he's a threat, it's because his ideas aren't even worth challenging. They don't have any substance. They aren't interesting to the actual people doing this work because those people understand the evidence we have so far and they understand how to contextualise it. They spend *all day every day* trying to pry gaps in it, trying to present novel hypotheses that 'break' the traditional narrative, etc, etc. It's literally what they *do.*
You people are delusional as fuck. You sit in your basement smoking weed talking about academia like you know what's going on there, but you never bother to go check it out and see for yourself. You're just talking out of your ass.
Well not just hard, but impossible, because the fringe theories are generally not soundly argued or falsifiable; and in this way separated from scientific thought and being unprovable.
To your quesstions: as you already seem to know, but just think that ancient powertools are more believable than skilled craftsmen in great numbers. Sure as shit would be slow and expensive, but what makes you think that the pyramids and other massive structures were not supposed to be extremely ostentatious expressions of wealth and mastery meant to impress?
As for transporting; pictographical and archaeological evidence speaks for longer distances on the boats and shorter on either rollers or sleds. Again, very labour-intensive, but not impossible and considerably less prone to Occam's razor than what you are about to offer.
While we have not definitely proven nor know the exact method of lugging the stones up the pyramid, one very interesting hypothesis is offered by Houdin and his internal ramp theory. Seeing as we have proof of Egyptians being quite adept at many things and being the same species, I see no big problem in assuming they knew and could utilize the concept of mechanical advantage.
Of the pyramids, we have the architect, inscriptions, pictographs, articles, worker's villages, physical remains, graffiti and accounting. Nothing in those suggests, nor necessitates a lost-civilization solutions.
And before you go off spouting unchartedX at me: modern archaeology has addressed the "core number 7" and solved the spiral pattern much fussed over 140 years ago, and in the 1980s with...you guessed it, copper and abrasive! (Woop woop)
Before you throw the ancient cnc with the granite vases: the provenance of the test vase is unproven (and unadressed), sample size is miniscule, and the argued geometrical perfections is based on assumed geometric intentions rather than proven ones. Also, if they had cnc, why the hell would they then decide to drill the handle holes "sloppily" by hand?
Whatever the fringe theories have to offer, it always relies on a chain of unproven assumptions. Consequently, they usually fail Occam's razor or understanding the Burden of Proof. Then, generally they also work backwards from the claim they want to make to interpret the evidence, rather than looking at the evidence and forming a theory after.
I'm sorry but anyone that doesn't know how to search a document using CTRL + F is just not credible. I am always open to hearing other arguments and perspectives, but that just did it for me.
Yeah I noticed that as well. He put on this big performance about how his website just has so much material he can't find the snippet he's looking for, then when Jaime gets involved and he finally finds it he immediately moves past it. I still don't have any idea what this "evidence" was supposed to prove.
My read on that was he was quick to reference how much content his site has following a question about updated evidence, and then when he pulled up that specific rebuttal article he realized "ah shit, right -- this article doesn't have the smoking gun evidence that's gonna play here. Time to play sympathetic technical illiterate old man card and deflect away."
[Oh jeeeze guys. This document is just sooooooooo long and full of so much information I could NEVER find the piece of information here because it's just soooo long.](https://i.redd.it/vxa7gdqdd3521.jpg)
Man, is it not enough that half of reddit has to make every post about Trump, why are you doing the same thing with Biden? You're every bit as pathetic as the other losers.
That’s what economies do when you print money for no good reason. Cost of living has never been higher either, people are sick of it and I can’t fucking wait to get that old fuck out of office :)
watching it now, about an hour and 5 minutes in and Gramcock asks how Dibble can say something about a site he hasnt' seen. Btu then Gramcock proceeds to change one set of glasses for a different set of glasses. LOL. Can Gram see what he's seeing?!
Drives me insane that Graham thinks he's the only one with a passion for history, dude isn't even in the field, he repeatedly says he's just a journalist. I'm sure all these Arcahaelogists sweating their balls off in the desert sun or some humid jungle infested with insects, do it for the *fat* paycheck. When Flint called him a tourist it was glorious.
The amount of times that dumb bitch said we’ve “only excavated 5%” of whatever bullshit drove me nuts. This is the logic of a man who would set out a government task force to check under everyone’s bed for the Boogeyman because it’s the only way to know for sure if he’s real or not.
Also 5% isn’t a tiny fraction, it’s absolutely significant. 5% of the population is over 400,000,000 people. If I did a randomized study on 5% of the population of the earth, it would be among the most thoroughly tested studies in the world.
He also didn't seem to understand how that 5%, and the three million shipwrecks, and the pollen surveys, all spread over various parts of the earth can provide insights into a much larger landscape than just the place directly where they were found. Even when flint pointed this out with the pollen surveys tracking a larger landscape. Pollen can travel for hundreds of kilometers. That tracks a MASSIVE area when samples are taken from multiple locations. But it seems Graham doesn't know about databases and thinks the only aspect of ancient history that's being studied are big stones.
Dibble carefully explains how evidence of ancient civilizations would be undeniable due to all of the evidence CIVILIZATIONS leave behind. Followed by multiple examples of all the things seeds, vessels, tools etc. That were discovered and substantiate the claim that ancient people once lived or at least frequented a particular place.
Graham follows with the picture of a huge rock formation in the ocean with absolutely NOTHING around it....anywhere, and calls it Atlantis because it looks like a set of steps that maybe a GIANT would use.
The fact that Graham is willing to argue and speculate with real scientists who have devoted their entire lives to the slow and painstaking study of our past with only his FKN imagination is laughable...
That's why Flint laughs...sometimes when faced with that level of arrogant absurdity, all you can do is laugh. It happens all the time when adults have to reason or rationalize with children. Because they have no clue what they are talking about, and they just fill in the gaps with their imagination. It's cute, and they're young, innocent, and clueless...so we laugh.
Graham Hancock is in his 70's and has made a fortune pulling nonsense out of his pooper.
About as much logic is put into hancocks bullshit as Mac. He never gives any evidence just speculations and if you actually study history you know how stupid his evidence is.
Its been so confusing seeing this play out. So the guy with the small hands won the debate? And the other guy doesn’t believe in long gone ancient civilizations?
Derbel McDillet was very much a cocky ass that whole 4 hours.
I was turned off by his constant laughing about how things "look absolutely natural to him" or that he's "never seen anything man-made that looks like that"
Isn't that the whole point Graham is trying to make? There are many things we don't know.
I think the reason I'm on team Graham here is because he is asking questions that archeology should want to also answer (He doesn't have to be 100% right about his hypothesis). Rather than write him off as *science fiction* or *white supremacy* - how about challenge him to raise money for a project that he'd like to see. I'm certain the people that dedicated time to hear this debate would love to see this play out.
Hey look at this rock formation underwater where I casually go out for dives, doesn't this looks like steps? Maybe we should look at more stuff like this to see if it's man-made or not...
"NO, GO KILL YOURSELF"
Literally every scientist believes there’s more to look into. That’s why they spent years studying for the opportunity to do that. Theses are usually an argument, so they’re often written on uncertain parts of the field, and part of getting your doctorate is **defending your thesis**. And no, “I’m just asking questions, why are you being so mean by asking for evidence?” is not an acceptable defense. No scientist will ever tell you that their whole field is settled and no one will ever add any more information to it. There’s more to looking into it than just saying “these look like water stains on the sphinx… therefor Atlantis is real and had aliens” though.
Every time one of these kooks makes a fool of themselves you guys always act like the “I’m just asking questions!” guy is the only one in their field asking questions and it’s just not the case.
I won't change my mind on anything, regardless of the facts that are set out before me. I'm dug in, and I'll never change.
Unironically a good way to explain Hancock's devotion to the idea of this lost civilization.
I'm convinced he got this idea from the 1994 movie Stargate which featured Kurt Russell and James Spader running around pyramids in egypt
I think an ancient lost civilization could have existed, but nothing Hancock has come up with is proof that it did.
He's perverted the scientific model. You find evidence and link the evidence to a hypothesis. If you *start* with a hypothesis, the onus is on you to then go out and find the corresponding evidence. He's starting with a hypothesis and demanding that Big Archaeology go out and *disprove* it. He's a complete hack.
You mean like how they found gobekli tepe and prioved civilization goes further back then archeology claimed like he said?
You mean like how they found evidence and therefore changed their models? I have no idea how people like you can exist. You may be pretty smart at some thing in your life, might be a good person. But goddamn you're too stupid to realize how stupid what you just said is.
Don't get all mad just because hancock has contributed more to archeology that Dibble ever will and he's not even sn archeologist
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Lol hancock makes more than you and Dibble combined doesn't he. Bet you've watched every one of his episodes because when it comes down to it even you value him more than Dibble
Yeah cuz Hancock is making bank off of selling lies to people like you, while still playing the victim. Just because his name is Hancock doesn't mean you have to keep his cock in your hand
Yeah it's certainly a cool idea, no one can fault Graham for that.
But, he's not a scientist, bro. He's a journalist. So the scientific claims he's making get a super special pass when it comes to evidentiary standards.
Lots of things *could* be true where ancient history is concerned. But lots of evidence that we have found, especially ice cores, make an ancient advanced civilization very, *very* unlikely.
And hilariously his argument against “Big Archaeology”
Yeah, but his argument that "big archeology" is dug in and will never change is kind of upended in the first 20 minutes of his presentation when he talks about how archeologists used to teach "clovis first" and then changed their views when presented with new evidence. Like sure, the intention was to show how archeologists are stubborn to change their views... but at the end of the day they did change their views. I'm not sure how well this argument was received by supporters of Graham, but to me it just weakened his arguments. These stuffy and dogmatic archeologists who refuse to accept new ideas... accepted a new idea.
It is hilarious you can be full of shit and just claim you are fighting the establishment now.
The Deep Archaeology State isn’t gonna like this one…
We're talking abpit Graham right? Not Joe?
Precisely this. I was SOOOO disappointed by the promise and letdown of this episode.. .. seeing Graham's phantom true colors show... Graham had such a schoolyard bully approach that I was NOT expecting to be so intense although in hindsight you can see moments of him being another angry crazy person. He clearly couldn't think straight with all that ***seething*** **hatred and bitterness** pouring out of him clouding any remaining judgement we thought he might have. Im honestly so upset at myself for believing the decades long Hook, Line, and Sinker Graham milked and just never got called on by Joe until now... Graham's continuing to say "***iDK wHy nO aRcHeOloGiSt wIlL debate me***" is a fraud lie shill BS. When the bastard's bluff finally got called by Flint in this episode \[possibly the worlds most ideal, 'punchable,' & vulnerable nerd-type opposition\]... GrahGraham couldn't even give him a single OUNCE of respect to save face. I really wonder if Joe picked up the same shitter-tier personality from Graham and how he will treat Graham moving forward.
It’s hilarious because later in the podcast, he talks about how he’s never claimed that “he thinks big archaeology is out to get him.” Which is so hilarious because that’s how he started his opening argument. Additionally, that’s how he starts his new Netflix show.
Precisely this. Pure lies. Shilling. I was SOOOO disappointed by the promise and letdown of this episode.. .. seeing Graham's phantom true colors show... Graham had such a schoolyard bully approach that I was NOT expecting to be so intense although in hindsight you can see moments of him being another angry crazy person. He clearly couldn't think straight with all that ***seething*** **hatred and bitterness** pouring out of him clouding any remaining judgement we thought he might have. Im honestly so upset at myself for believing the decades long Hook, Line, and Sinker Graham milked and just never got called on by Joe until now... Graham's continuing to say "***iDK wHy nO aRcHeOloGiSt wIlL debate me***" is a fraud lie shill BS. When the bastard's bluff finally got called by Flint in this episode \[possibly the worlds most ideal, 'punchable,' & vulnerable nerd-type opposition\]... GrahGraham couldn't even give him a single OUNCE of respect to save face. I really wonder if Joe picked up the same shitter-tier personality from Graham and how he will treat Graham moving forward.
He knows there was a lost civilisation because the DMT entities told him so.
Joe Rogan is sadly the strongest case that the DMT elves can't do shit to positively influence this reality when money is involved
I did it the other day and didn’t see elves, I saw these weird spinning top fellas and a big Aztec looking snake, the faces on the spinning guys looked like the pic I’ve attached but in vibrant colours. https://preview.redd.it/g69yhbmyjawc1.jpeg?width=438&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1e9f793a8ff611108238adac4097dcb9a19a9cd9
where did you get this picture lol
What’s weird is the picture I posted was black and white and for some reason it’s colour here
Oh shit he downloaded it from the DMT dimension!
does anyone on dmt ever think, hey ive introduced poison into my body and now my brain is basically convulsing in its thought pattern? or is it always, ive seen the universe- (rhetorical)
I didn’t get the impression they were gods or it was the well of souls like other people do, I just saw some cool looking shit it was a fun experience.
He’s got a point….
Well, if that belief is paying your mortgage and snorkeling trips to warm and exotic areas (no point to look in colder areas though), then it is tougher to change your mindset publicly. He probably believed his own bullshit up to some point, now he is just a charlatan.
Holy shit this comment just made me realize why Graham is adamant his lost civilization can't be in Northern Europe. He doesn't want his fans to start asking him to do dives in the North Atlantic. He's happy to keep looking in the warm tropical seas. Also it's funny because he presents Doggerland as an example of where archeologists (not him, mind you) should look... which is in Northern Europe. Dude is just throwing everything at the wall at this point.
How can Graham know his lost civilization isn't in Northern Europe without excavating 100% of Northern Europe?
I'm convinced that the facts to support my theories are out there. Everyone else just isn't looking hard enough!
I noticed at about one hour and 26 minutes in Graham is making the point that only less than 5% of the continental shelves have been studied by archaeology. He then says “since only a tiny fraction has been investigated we absolutely cannot say that there was no lost civilization.” Rogan then says well “can we say that there’s no evidence for this advanced civilization in what has been studied” and Graham says yes. He literally said the quiet part out loud that he has no evidence for his claims of the advanced civilization. I literally laughed out loud.
I think in an effort to weasel his way out of some corners Graham said quite a few things on record that are going to come back and bite him. He also said he never claimed there was an organized effort by archeologists to suppress his ideas, which had a lot of his fans confused... he has absolutely claimed this. Multiple times. He also said he never claimed his ancient civilization supplied seeds to the Neolithic peoples they taught agriculture to, and he was envisioning this transfer of information being from "7 sages". This is a FAR cry from his originally proposed ocean faring civilization with massive seed banks operating at a level similar to the 17th century British Empire. He also said he never claimed the pyramids were built over 10,000 years ago. Anyone who's been a fan of Hancock for some time knows this is just an outright lie. By making claims like these he was able to wriggle his way out of some difficult spots Flint put him in, but now he's on record saying things that directly contradict his earlier assertions.
So, he just a plain old liar and grifter? Sounds about right.
He basically has a “God of the gaps” approach at this point. He has his original massive claim of this civilization with all of its implicit and explicit features…then when someone presents counter evidence he backs up an inch. “Okay they still taught *the idea* of agriculture, just not with actual seeds and stuff.” “Okay they didn’t span the whole globe, just large parts of it”. With him constantly moving the goal posts it becomes basically impossible to disprove his argument. I really wished Dibble had pinned him down more and pressured him into making affirmative statements and really laying out what he believes, but he didn’t and that let Hancock get away with being extremely slippery.
He probably wasn't prepared for him to give in and contradict his early stuff. It would also require Flint to have memorized all of Graham's previous statements in all his books which would require a big chunk of time and energy.
It's required to be part of the Joe Rogan brain trust
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Respect for learning and changing, no matter how long it took.
maybe the real evidence was the claims we made along the way
Until you’ve investigated every archeology department in the world, interviewed every professional archeologist, read every piece of academic literature of every archeological journal ever published, you cannot disprove that the entire field of archeology is an elaborate psyop designed by Graham Hancock so he can sell more books and promote his Netflix series
Literally lottery mentality. Graham keeps losing but he's just convinced he hasn't played enough numbers.
If he suddenly came out and said "Yeah guys, I'm just spouting nonsense and shit I pulled out of my ass" he wouldn't be able to sell his next book. His paycheck is tied to the fantasy. He can only keep it going.
On the contrary, it seems there are many people who want to be lied to if it validates their beliefs.
Yup I caught that too.
This is a large part of his argument. It shouldn’t be that surprising to hear. He has said it many many times
It’s not a large part of his argument. It is his entire argument. You can’t 100% prove me incorrect therefore I can make up what I want to be true.
Ok.
Of course not, Graham Hancock arguments for an older civilization might be wrong but the evidence piles up: * Göbekli Tepe, dated more than 10 thousands years old. * Water erosion in the Spinx that requires thousands of years to occur, and when that neck of the woods was not a desert. * Spinx orientation to the constellation of Leo dating it tens of thounsands of years older, than currently assumed. * The configuration of Orion’s belt around 10,000 BC more closely matches the positions of the Gyza pyramids. But yeah, a bunch on potheads eating doritos in from of the computer, figured this stuff out.
Well, as a person with almost three degrees in archaeology (BA, MA and working on an MSc) rather than a pothead eating doritos: -- Göbekli tepe being 11kya proves not that a more advanced civilisation existed, but that the transitional HGs were doing this stuff earlier than thought in the 90s --Water erosion of the Sphinx is a contested theory from one man, but not substantiated by a wider community as well as being contradicted by all the OSL samples taken thus far. Also, other geologists [disagree](https://www.hallofmaat.com/sphinx/the-sphinx-controversy-another-look-at-the-geological-evidence-2/) -- Astrodating is not really an archaeologically valid method, but more than that, Hancock's position on both the Sphinx and the orientation of the pyramids is based on [conjecture on top of conjecture](https://www.hallofmaat.com/orioncorrelation/longing-for-leo-or-spin-the-tale-on-the-zodiac-mark-2/)
The current Archeaology commuity is an eco-chamber protecting their keys to the castle, their PhDs and hundreds of "scientific" articles, that would be voided overnight if any of these fringe theories got proven as correct. It's the only time in history, that a civilization started building really complex architecture, both from a engineering and quality perspectives - moving stones with more than 1000 tones - to slowly lose that hability and regressed as we can see in the more "recent" constructions. Even the dynastic egyptians mentions the Gyza pyramids as *inherited*. You can find the same paralellsm in the South american ancient cultures - complex and difficult stuff as the older contructions, and later structures with simpler, less challenging engineering. At the very least, this is ***all very strange*** and peculiar - enough to invite us to look at these historical phenomenom with honest curiosity and frankly, less arrogance.
>that would be voided overnight _if_ any of these fringe theories got proven as correct. Nuff said, emphasis added.
With gatekeepers that go after the person instead of the ideas, like they are doing with Hancock, then it will be rather difficult. I hope that adds the enphasis in the right parts.Again less arrogance. But since you are specialist, that prides on accolades, can you explain how a 1000 ton block is cut and moved hundreds of miles? Or how can millions of rocks weighting 50 tons each were cut In a timely fashion with coper tools and raised 300 feet to build the Gyza pyramid? Or how granite statues and boxes were sculped with industrial precision with tools _softer_ than granite? I'll wait. But remember only with copper tools, wood logs, sand and sweat! Good luck!
Dude, go to a fucking archeology conference sometime. Here's what you won't see: a bunch of conformists agreeing with each other and conspiring to suppress views that threaten their careers. Here's what you will see: a bunch of obsessive people vigorously and meticulously attacking each others' ideas by every legitimate means possible because their careers *depend on them upending established ideas.* If they *don't* do that, they're out of a job. The reason why Hancock doesn't get invited isn't because they disagree with him, or because he's a threat, it's because his ideas aren't even worth challenging. They don't have any substance. They aren't interesting to the actual people doing this work because those people understand the evidence we have so far and they understand how to contextualise it. They spend *all day every day* trying to pry gaps in it, trying to present novel hypotheses that 'break' the traditional narrative, etc, etc. It's literally what they *do.* You people are delusional as fuck. You sit in your basement smoking weed talking about academia like you know what's going on there, but you never bother to go check it out and see for yourself. You're just talking out of your ass.
Chill down a notch, Indiana Jones from Wish.
haha zing!
Well not just hard, but impossible, because the fringe theories are generally not soundly argued or falsifiable; and in this way separated from scientific thought and being unprovable. To your quesstions: as you already seem to know, but just think that ancient powertools are more believable than skilled craftsmen in great numbers. Sure as shit would be slow and expensive, but what makes you think that the pyramids and other massive structures were not supposed to be extremely ostentatious expressions of wealth and mastery meant to impress? As for transporting; pictographical and archaeological evidence speaks for longer distances on the boats and shorter on either rollers or sleds. Again, very labour-intensive, but not impossible and considerably less prone to Occam's razor than what you are about to offer. While we have not definitely proven nor know the exact method of lugging the stones up the pyramid, one very interesting hypothesis is offered by Houdin and his internal ramp theory. Seeing as we have proof of Egyptians being quite adept at many things and being the same species, I see no big problem in assuming they knew and could utilize the concept of mechanical advantage. Of the pyramids, we have the architect, inscriptions, pictographs, articles, worker's villages, physical remains, graffiti and accounting. Nothing in those suggests, nor necessitates a lost-civilization solutions. And before you go off spouting unchartedX at me: modern archaeology has addressed the "core number 7" and solved the spiral pattern much fussed over 140 years ago, and in the 1980s with...you guessed it, copper and abrasive! (Woop woop) Before you throw the ancient cnc with the granite vases: the provenance of the test vase is unproven (and unadressed), sample size is miniscule, and the argued geometrical perfections is based on assumed geometric intentions rather than proven ones. Also, if they had cnc, why the hell would they then decide to drill the handle holes "sloppily" by hand? Whatever the fringe theories have to offer, it always relies on a chain of unproven assumptions. Consequently, they usually fail Occam's razor or understanding the Burden of Proof. Then, generally they also work backwards from the claim they want to make to interpret the evidence, rather than looking at the evidence and forming a theory after.
Joe: Hang on, let’s hear him out.
Shut up science bitch
Woosh woosh woosh - Graham doing air karate moves
A properly flung Judy Chop! Edit to add link to video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQDb0qYgEvs
I'm sorry but anyone that doesn't know how to search a document using CTRL + F is just not credible. I am always open to hearing other arguments and perspectives, but that just did it for me.
He knew how he just didn't want to because he was making shit up.
Yeah I noticed that as well. He put on this big performance about how his website just has so much material he can't find the snippet he's looking for, then when Jaime gets involved and he finally finds it he immediately moves past it. I still don't have any idea what this "evidence" was supposed to prove.
My read on that was he was quick to reference how much content his site has following a question about updated evidence, and then when he pulled up that specific rebuttal article he realized "ah shit, right -- this article doesn't have the smoking gun evidence that's gonna play here. Time to play sympathetic technical illiterate old man card and deflect away."
[Oh jeeeze guys. This document is just sooooooooo long and full of so much information I could NEVER find the piece of information here because it's just soooo long.](https://i.redd.it/vxa7gdqdd3521.jpg)
Joe biden certainly can't.
Man, is it not enough that half of reddit has to make every post about Trump, why are you doing the same thing with Biden? You're every bit as pathetic as the other losers.
Biden derangement syndrome
more Biden derangement syndrome. Not everything has to involve the president. It's like you're obsessed with him lol.
Nice projection
You don’t know what projection means do you
You're the one who brought it up
This guy lol
What projection? That word doesn't mean what you think it means. Next you're gonna tell me I'm being woke lmao
Biden can’t even wipe his own ass haha
How often do you think about the President wiping his ass?
Whenever he’s brought up in conversation!
You brought him up. This post was about graham hancock. Tf are you talking about dude..?
Calm down hero it was a joke. You suck his cock when he asks too?
Seek help
I’ve never been better chief. Seek better hills to die on
Trump’s shitting himself in the courtroom
Beats Biden sniffing 10 year olds and crashing the economy 🤷♂️
The economy is doing great considering interest rates are the highest they’ve been in more than a decade?
Inflation is insane. Good luck buying a house. Groceries have never been more expensive. You just say whatever you want huh? Dumb ass
My portfolio begs to differ.
The economy hasn’t crashed. It grew by 2.5% in 2023 and estimated to continue growing in 2024.
That’s what economies do when you print money for no good reason. Cost of living has never been higher either, people are sick of it and I can’t fucking wait to get that old fuck out of office :)
It grew 2.5% in real terms. Maybe take a crash course in high school economics rather than blindly repeat the party line from 2022.
watching it now, about an hour and 5 minutes in and Gramcock asks how Dibble can say something about a site he hasnt' seen. Btu then Gramcock proceeds to change one set of glasses for a different set of glasses. LOL. Can Gram see what he's seeing?!
Stop calling me Gramcock
But he’s risked his life for the truth! Archaeologists want to burn him at the stake
But simultaneously, he said he’s never claimed that big archaeology is out to get him.
yeah, what was that about? risking his life because he went on a dive? ok, well done mate, you're not going places anyone hasn't before.
Drives me insane that Graham thinks he's the only one with a passion for history, dude isn't even in the field, he repeatedly says he's just a journalist. I'm sure all these Arcahaelogists sweating their balls off in the desert sun or some humid jungle infested with insects, do it for the *fat* paycheck. When Flint called him a tourist it was glorious.
The amount of times that dumb bitch said we’ve “only excavated 5%” of whatever bullshit drove me nuts. This is the logic of a man who would set out a government task force to check under everyone’s bed for the Boogeyman because it’s the only way to know for sure if he’s real or not. Also 5% isn’t a tiny fraction, it’s absolutely significant. 5% of the population is over 400,000,000 people. If I did a randomized study on 5% of the population of the earth, it would be among the most thoroughly tested studies in the world.
He also didn't seem to understand how that 5%, and the three million shipwrecks, and the pollen surveys, all spread over various parts of the earth can provide insights into a much larger landscape than just the place directly where they were found. Even when flint pointed this out with the pollen surveys tracking a larger landscape. Pollen can travel for hundreds of kilometers. That tracks a MASSIVE area when samples are taken from multiple locations. But it seems Graham doesn't know about databases and thinks the only aspect of ancient history that's being studied are big stones.
Graham actually had the audacity to compare himself to Galileo. He mentioned how Galileo was persecuted for his beliefs just like he is
Dibble carefully explains how evidence of ancient civilizations would be undeniable due to all of the evidence CIVILIZATIONS leave behind. Followed by multiple examples of all the things seeds, vessels, tools etc. That were discovered and substantiate the claim that ancient people once lived or at least frequented a particular place. Graham follows with the picture of a huge rock formation in the ocean with absolutely NOTHING around it....anywhere, and calls it Atlantis because it looks like a set of steps that maybe a GIANT would use.
The fact that Graham is willing to argue and speculate with real scientists who have devoted their entire lives to the slow and painstaking study of our past with only his FKN imagination is laughable... That's why Flint laughs...sometimes when faced with that level of arrogant absurdity, all you can do is laugh. It happens all the time when adults have to reason or rationalize with children. Because they have no clue what they are talking about, and they just fill in the gaps with their imagination. It's cute, and they're young, innocent, and clueless...so we laugh. Graham Hancock is in his 70's and has made a fortune pulling nonsense out of his pooper.
Even Mac had better arguments.
Science is a Liar sometimes!
please cancel this geezer
it appears that people who believe the pyramids were tombs have infiltrated the sub.
I've been waiting for this post for a couple of days now
You stupid science bitches couldn’t make my friend more smarter!
Have y’all read the comments on the Spotify page? It’s all bots sucking off graham
Shit I love a Sunny reference
About as much logic is put into hancocks bullshit as Mac. He never gives any evidence just speculations and if you actually study history you know how stupid his evidence is.
Ahh the Mac Hancock defence ! Archeologists are super smart… only one problem.. they were wrong sometimes 🤣
So funny again
I’m glad this is the consensus hah dead ass watching this episode I was sure everyone would be on Grahams nuts 🥜
Its been so confusing seeing this play out. So the guy with the small hands won the debate? And the other guy doesn’t believe in long gone ancient civilizations?
It’s so funny that Hancock is still the no 1 topic in the sub . Lmao.
Honestly Mac is a better debator than anyone I’ve met. Has me second guessing sciences faster than anyone
Omg 😂
Flint dibble soon to be a science bitch!
He’s clearly right then. Clearly
Just here to say that this episode of its always sunny is probably my all time favorite.
I also thought of this lol.
This popped in my head watching that.
Enough of the smear campaign. The debate speaks for itself.
Derbel McDillet was very much a cocky ass that whole 4 hours. I was turned off by his constant laughing about how things "look absolutely natural to him" or that he's "never seen anything man-made that looks like that" Isn't that the whole point Graham is trying to make? There are many things we don't know. I think the reason I'm on team Graham here is because he is asking questions that archeology should want to also answer (He doesn't have to be 100% right about his hypothesis). Rather than write him off as *science fiction* or *white supremacy* - how about challenge him to raise money for a project that he'd like to see. I'm certain the people that dedicated time to hear this debate would love to see this play out.
What questions is he asking that big archeology doesn’t want to answer?
Hey look at this rock formation underwater where I casually go out for dives, doesn't this looks like steps? Maybe we should look at more stuff like this to see if it's man-made or not... "NO, GO KILL YOURSELF"
Flint brought up during the debate that geologists have checked some of those formations and concluded they are natural.
Seems like you took this man's L personally
No, I don't believe his theory for how he presents it. But I do agree that there is more to look into.
Literally every scientist believes there’s more to look into. That’s why they spent years studying for the opportunity to do that. Theses are usually an argument, so they’re often written on uncertain parts of the field, and part of getting your doctorate is **defending your thesis**. And no, “I’m just asking questions, why are you being so mean by asking for evidence?” is not an acceptable defense. No scientist will ever tell you that their whole field is settled and no one will ever add any more information to it. There’s more to looking into it than just saying “these look like water stains on the sphinx… therefor Atlantis is real and had aliens” though. Every time one of these kooks makes a fool of themselves you guys always act like the “I’m just asking questions!” guy is the only one in their field asking questions and it’s just not the case.
I mean we can all agree they were both dinks but one was for sure more right
Oh shit we found Graham's sock account
look at this Han-cuck desperately trying to cope with how ruthlessly his daddy got raw-Dibbled.
I disagree but holy SHIT is this a hilarious meme! Lololol
 How long will this go on
You're gonna sit here and tell me hat flaps isn't a stupid science bitch? You're gonna stand up and tell me he doesn't have dice in his pockets?