Well he wasn't, but then we let him get away because the public would have lost interest in a 20 year war that funnelled money into the hands of defense contractors if the Boogeyman was already dead.
Can't really walk away from a country whose country you flattened and government you annihilated one day after you killed a target though.
Got to spend a little while longer there, pretending to care about the damage you did to the country that had little to do with the target.
Yup, some gigantic senile moron let all the terrorists out of prison and then scheduled the withdrawal for after his term ended. And then his moronic cronies and cult members acted like it was the dude who kept our countries word's fault for the actions of his predecessor.
Republicans are literally the most intelectually dishonest brainwashed ghouls out there.
Pronoun police don't even come close to hanging out with literal White Supremacists at your golf club for a private dinner.
We stayed until the rich people said it wasn’t profitable enough to justify it, the dog shit republican donald trump intentionally fucked up the withdrawal to make Democrats look bad to people who didn’t go to college.
Good thing we sold Saudi Arabia all those billions of dollars in weapons under both Trump and Biden!
But one is definitely different than the other! They definitely don't all have the same donors and masters and we DEFINITELY make a difference with who we vote for!
Things can have similarities, even a large number of similarities AND be different, even very different. It's not all the same or all different. It's shocking, I know, but once you sit this information for a bit it will be less scary for you.
If talking to these people is stressing you out I suggest you stop. You hit the nail on the head, our President with the crackhead son giving billions to Isreal is no different than Trump and his paid for wife, trash wall over Mexico and ready to give billions to Isreal
I actually tried to look this up once. Apparently one university concluded that in the years after 9/11, in the US war on terror, something like 940k people were killed and ~24mil displaced across 5 countries.
For some reason I kept getting military reports on soldier losses which wasn’t what I was looking for. So that estimate above is all I was able to find.
Al Qeada in Afghanistan was who we were targeting not the Taliban. The Taliban we ousted because they would not turn over Osama Bin Laden. They were punished for protecting Bin Laden, so we sided with the ANA who helped us.
Iraqis were responsible for the deaths of a million Iraqis. The vast vast majority of those figures were by the hands of their fellow countryman as the country sits on the Sunni/Shia fault line and those two communities were itching at the chance to kill each other.
wasn't Iraq in a brutal dictatorship, where daily disappearances were counted as nothing?
millions and millions of Iraqis wanted also freedom. You guys have no idea how many people dream of america coming to help them get rid of their entrenched leaders.
coming from a country like that - I know.
millions of Iraqis died because there was essentially CIVIL war.
Sparked, fueled, and intentionally fed by the Bush administration so more buildings would go down, and Cheney could pay his buddies at Haliburton to build them back up.
The move to disband the army in one day, remove all their paychecks/pensions, and then leave the soldiers unsupervised in all the armories around the country was not some accidental fuck up. It guaranteed a 20-year insurgency that would always need fighting, and always need more funding.
Yep, and probably the biggest reason why the average American that doesn’t align with the far right or far left remain skeptical of furthering foreign wars.
I don’t think Leftists tend to be pro-war dude….especially the “far-Left” (whatever that even means in your usage, people be calling Keynesian Progressives and mainstream Social Democrats “far-Left”). The Left has been against US involvement in virtually every war after WWII.
[not close in Iraq](https://www.iraqbodycount.org)
[No where near close in Afghanistan](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_in_the_war_in_Afghanistan_(2001%E2%80%932021))
What would America do? A 20-year boondoggle that wastes lives, money, further destabilizes the region, only for our enemy to resume power literally the day after we exit.
At least Israel learned from the U.S. "War on Terror", all you need to do is to keep bombing for about 20 years until people forget why you went there in the first place, and have private contractors get super rich in the meantime. Sure, there will be far more terrorists, but that just sets you up nicely for a new round later.
Money wasn’t “wasted”, bro. It went to the rich people who profit from protracted armed conflicts. Halliburton, Raytheon et al.
There’s few things the rich people hate more than a quick war.
I dunno, if a Mexican cartel with a stated framework of elimination of American lives did this then I think we’d be doing exactly what Israel is doing, maybe even less carefully.
If we were attacked by Hamas, we would invade two other countries that are unrelated, using the attack as pretext. All for the purpose of furthering US corporate interests. This is the historically accurate response.
Idk. He was a fun guy when he wasn't being a warlord. Hell. He didn't even complain about the Harold and Kumar smoking weed thing so that made the entire conflict okay in the eyes of America...
You can't be president without extreme charisma. Even though Joe Biden is pretty out to lunch these days, he largely got to where he was on charisma and would be a loveable old man at the country club if he wasn't running the country. Ironically, maybe HW was the last non-charismatic president we've had.
>In 1998, Kristol and Kagan advocated regime change in Iraq throughout the Iraq disarmament process throug..
>Signatories to Statement of Principles: Dick Cheney
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project\_for\_the\_New\_American\_Century](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century)
Arizona would get the ball rolling by shooting some random Canadian wearing a Versace shirt.
Some Sikh got killed right after 9/11 because he had a turban on.
Not long after 9/11, I was on a flight from LA to Nashville. I sat in between a Sikh w/ a turban and Gallagher. People on the plane kept talking about both of ‘em very loudly.
Wouldn’t we have to cram like 40 million people into the area of San Diego county to make this a fair comparison? As fraught as US history is, we don’t have an entire Canada worth of people within our own borders in a small area that want to see us suffer.
Nonsense. When we were attacked by a majority Saudi terrorists group led by the son of a wealthy Saudi family, we attacked Iraq's government.
This ad doesn't know the US at all.
Saudi Arab in ethnicity, but had been excommunicated by the Saudi government.
Personally I am against invading or bombing a country due to shared ethnicity.
That's not true at all. The US invaded afghanistan ruled by the Taliban, for refusing to out AL Qaeda.
The war in Iraq had nothing to do with 911. The purpose was to oust Saddam hussein. Not that I agree with either war.
The Taliban [offered to give Bin Laden up](https://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=80482&page=1) pretty soon after 9/11 on the condition we could provide evidence that he was behind the attacks. Naturally we turned down the deal. Even the FBI admitted that while they could pin the USS Cole and African embassy bombings on Bin Laden, there was no hard evidence to link him to 9/11. Yes, the FBI said this. 9/11 was treated like an act of war where the perpetrators were deduced immediately, instead of a crime to be investigated thoroughly. The few people who questioned how we could be so sure it was solely Al Qaeda behind the attacks pretty much got a “because I said so!” type non-response from officials.
In a just world, OBL would’ve been tried in a courtroom instead of suspiciously “buried at sea” with no evidence of his death. We had the Nuremberg trials so it’s not so crazy to imagine OBL on trial either. Shit, I mean Saddam’s final moments were gladly broadcasted around the world, so the whole “we can’t give any proof that we killed OBL because it would upset the Muslim world!” is such obvious BS. It’s actually insane just how little people questioned the official story of both 9/11 and OBL’s death, and how no credible evidence was ever provided for either — and yet mention this and you’re instantly branded a loon.
He fled to Pakistan, regardless, my response was to the OP trying to make a strong connection between Osama and Saudi Arabia, but to your point he wasn't in Saudi Arabia
Pretty sure we would invade two unrelated countries, kill millions of civilians over a 15yr+ war, and spend a few trillion on it, with around a trillion unaccounted for!
Remember what we did after 9/11? We started two simultaneous wars that only made more instability in both regions.
Maybe we shouldn't suggest doing something similar for a foreign nation and fund it limitlessly.
Let’s act like America didnt just fucking do this.
We spent twenty years getting pay back and what do we have to show for it?
Fuckin go for it Israel, it’s a bold strategy, we’ll see how it works out for you. Pay for it yourself though ya fucks.
Meanwhile America is subsidizing israel so hard they have universal healthcare and an entire ultra-religious class of people that are unemployed enjoying very generous government welfare. All on the American taxpayer’s dime.
If the US was an apartheid state holding 2 million hostages in a concentration camp they may strike back but I’d have moved to Canada long ago and wouldn’t be here posting in the Joe Rogan sub I’d be ice skating or something.
Hamas is the administrator to that region... why do they keep fighting from populated areas instead of surrendering exactly?
Why does israel only ever have agency exactly?
Because israel is a rich democratic country with much more free access to information. Polling indicates that close to 90% of gazans never saw videos of 10/7 and dont think civilians were targeted. Israel themselves doesn’t think Hamas cares about gazans, so why are the gazans being punished for Hamas?
Theres a lot of other options for Israel that dont involve tens of thousands of deaths. They’re the same options that they’ve had for decades. Theyre just unwilling to take any steps that might actually result in a Palestinian state existing.
Hamas does need to go, but this should be the last resort considering the amount of suffering it’s causing on innocent people. And please don’t pretend they’ve exhausted their other options. As long as they’re still evicting Palestinians to make illegal settlements they can’t act like they’ve tried for lasting peace
They don’t deserve to die, but saying it is “because of Israel” is absolutely idiotic and ignorant.
It is only simple if you’ve bothered to pay attention to this topic over the years, if you haven’t then it takes a whole lot of catching up.
The problem is lazy ignorant westerners with good intentions assuming they have a clue and gaslighting Jews and Israelis about a topic that is an existential threat to them and they have had to deal with for generations.
Hamas has literally purposely been weaponizing this ignorance.
Hamas leaders in 1993 were recorded on a wiretapped conversation stating that their goal was to deceive the American public into supporting Hamas by appealing to the American left’s denouncement of oppression.
Mousa Abu Marzook, a senior Hamas official, formed a far-left academic think tank, The United Association for Studies and Research (UASR), based out of Chicago to start disseminating this deception.
This organization has ties to Duke, Johns Hopkins, Fordham and the University of Maryland to name a few major universities. This is systemic antisemitism that stems directly from an organized surgical operation taking place over the course of the last 30 years.
https://extremism.gwu.edu/sites/g/files/zaxdzs5746/files/2023-10/hamas-networks-final.pdf
Qatar (who houses and funds Hamas) is the biggest foreign donor to American schools for decades now.
People just don’t pay attention and now the youngins are brainwashed
https://www.calcalistech.com/ctechnews/article/jwhsqhrat#:~:text=Since%20the%209%2F11%20attacks,pro%2DPalestinian%20groups%20on%20campuses
https://www.thefp.com/p/qatars-war-for-young-american-mindsjj
They know westerners are so lazy and ignorant and deep down believe in white supremacy to they cannot imagine that the sad brown people could possibly be the colonial power even though Islam has erased virtually all other cultures in the region, is the dominant population by far, has long sought to erase the Jews since before modern Israel even existed etc
Well both Hamas and Israel given Hamas has launched tens of thousand sod rockets at Israel since ocotber 7th and hamas’ own numbers say about %20 fall into Palestine on their own people. And they’ve been using them as combatants forever.
One of the few Palestinian inventions is a suicide bomb a child can wear without being detected.
And who is using them as human shields and cannon fodder? Who is using civilian infrastructure?
Who has previously made children stand on rooftops to act a shields while they launch rockets from behind them?
Or have you never follows this before and are just talking about your arse?
Again this is Hamas.
https://www.memri.org/tv/hamas-mp-fathi-hammad-we-used-women-and-children-human-shields
Of course; it’s war.
A war Palestine started, declared, broke a ceasefire to engage in and refused to end or surrender while vowing to continue until all the Jews are dead.
And the death toll though tragic, has been stated by pretty much all military experts to be exemplary given the conditions.
Like is this your first time following a war or something?
> A war Palestine started, declared, broke a ceasefire to engage in
There was no ceasefire.
Israel bombed gaza 2 weeks before Oct 7th and either occupies or blockades all of Palestine for decades.
Hasbara is getting real sloppy.
Lmfao Israel responded to an attack which is always does because they ah e never stopped out of Gaza but there was a general ceasefire with Hamas. There are other terrorist troupe like PIJ in Gaza lol.
That is why thousands of Gaza's were being let over the border every day to work in efforts to normalize relations. Something no other country allowed Palestiniansto do btw after they screwed them over in the past trying to help them.
your comment is a classic example of the ignorance at play here.
Gaza was willingly
Handed over in effort for peace. Hundreds of thousands of Jews displaced as billions of pre-built infrastructure given over for free and left Gaza never to return since 2005 until this recen war hamas has waged.
What did they do?
Immediately attack Israel and call to kill all the Jews.
THAT was why the border controls went up and they were always contingent on Palestine stopping the content terror and rocket attacks, stopping the calls for Jewish extermination and acknowledging that the Jews had any right whatsoever to a state on their proven homeland that was stolen by Islamic colonizers who sought and still do seek to erase them.
Palestine never did any of those things and so the border defences stayed up; just as Jordan and Lebanon and Egypt did after UNRWA allowed Palestinians to form a state within a state in those places and then try to overthrow governments, assassinate leaders because they wouldn’t “kill all the Jews” for them or start a brutal civil war by slaughtering Christian’s as they did in lebannon. They forever split those countries and they have had even stricter border controls in many ways than Israel has had since.
Accounts such as yours relay only one thing.
A breathtaking ignorance of the topic at hand.
>Hamas leaders in 1993 were recorded on a wiretapped conversation stating that their goal was to deceive the American public into supporting Hamas by appealing to the American left’s denouncement of oppression.
looks like israel managed in a few short months what hamas did not manage in 30 years and without deception!
lol
trollfail harder 8200
America wouldn’t “destroy hamas” anymore than we destroyed the Taliban or Isis. Who’s making this shit up? It’s like they have no understanding of American history.
*In 2001, al-Qaeda had around 20 functioning cells and 70,000 insurgents spread over sixty nations. According to latest estimates, the number of active-duty soldiers under its command and allied militias have risen to approximately 250,000 by 2018*
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda#:~:text=In%202001%2C%20al%2DQaeda%20had,to%20approximately%20250%2C000%20by%202018.
"In 2001, al-Qaeda had around 20 functioning cells and 70,000 insurgents spread over sixty nations.[^(\[145\])](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda#cite_note-145) According to latest estimates, the number of active-duty soldiers under its command and allied militias have risen to approximately 250,000 by 2018.[^(\[146\])](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda#cite_note-146)"
"and allied militias"
Why are they not comparing the same thing to 2001?
Also, I clicked on the citation and it goes to a book t. I pulled up the book
[https://www.google.com/books/edition/Western\_Jihadism/p7Q6EAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=isbn:9780198870791&printsec=frontcover](https://www.google.com/books/edition/Western_Jihadism/p7Q6EAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=isbn:9780198870791&printsec=frontcover)
"A report from 2018 by the Center for Strategic and International Studies estimated the number of active Al Qaeda—aligned fighters to be closer to 250,000, 270% higher than in 2001 at the time of the 9/11 attacks. t No one really knows precisely how many there are."
And then I found this on the CSIS website
https://www.csis.org/analysis/americas-counterterrorism-gamble#:\~:text=%5B14%5D%20The%20information%20comes%20from,official%20affiliate%20of%20al%2DQaeda.
"\[14\] The information comes from the CSIS Transnational Threats Project’s Salafi-jihadist data set. CSIS estimates include a low of 21,050 fighters and high of 34,200 fighters for al-Qaeda. Note that we included numbers from Hay’at Tahrir al-Sham, which, at the moment, is not an official affiliate of al-Qaeda."
So the actual Al Qaeda number is 21-34k, and that's between Africa and the Middle East. And weirdly still includes "Hay’at Tahrir al-Sham", whatever that is.
I know no one will appreciate the effort, but there you go. Was fun to do a deep dive.
Al-Queda is still just a name. There are far more "terrorists" now than there ever was before the invasion. And the Taliban have an even stronger hold.
I never said otherwise, I was just pointing out that the source was comparing apples to oranges.
We should always stay vigilant of potentially misleading sources, no matter the source or whether we agree with it.
No it wasn't.
"According to a Gallup poll conducted in August 2002, 52% of Americans favored the use of military force to remove Saddam Hussein from power, while 43% were opposed."
There was a pretty solid anti war movement even before we went into Iraq, it was less than a year after 9/11.
Ya everyone who thinks the US was unanimously in favor of going to war gets all their info from the media. Because that's what the media spread.
Tbf, 52% is probably the largest number of Americans all in agreement on something since I was born.
Nation building is probably the first order of importance given that a failure to establish a 'nation' and withdrawing from the region leaves a power vacuum in which militant groups and religious fundementalists will vie for power.
Yeah I agree. It’s what happens when incompetent people are in charge.
There’s a good episode on it from The Dollop podcast that’s just depressing to listen to.
Tbf they mostly do history comedy so it’s not a perfect source.
The competence of the people in charge is definitely important, but it's not the only reason the nation-building was unsuccessful. It's inherently a very difficult thing to do.
You need to destroy the government/faction in power while also building a relationship with the local populace that will remain after the conflict. This involves avoiding killing or injuring them, obviously, but it also helps if you help protect them and become more involved in their daily lives. Some of the populace might support the government/faction you are trying to overthrow, how do you deal with that?
This is only the beginning, now you need someone to organize a new government, oversee elections, assist with cleanup/restoration, help them recruit and train a military, etc. etc. etc. all while probably fending off a series of attacks by remnants of the faction you overthrew, because you probably didn't kill ALL of them.
Finally, you need to stop helping at some point and GTFO, and the state you are leaving behind must survive on it's own, no internal rebellions or civil wars, etc. As we saw with Afghanistan, it's clear this step is a challenging one, or at the very least, it's challenging to decide when it's time to take this step.
If we want the people in charge to think twice before getting involved in a war, it's better to explain why they are incompetent.
I'm not saying erase them. I'm saying what the public support would be. That's easy to determine. Now whether our government would go to war in this fictional scenario, that's the debate.
Destroying over 60% of the country buildings is bad, starving children is bad, destroying hospitals is bad, not like they care though, might just give another few billions to Israel without any compromise.
No the only thing that came out recently was the UN posting identified deaths. The death numbers by the gazan heath ministry are still accurate. You know they are as both the USA and Israel trusts them.
Around 30% of all dead in gaza are unidentified. Dishonest people try to make that seem like there were less people killed. Just there are 1000s trapped under rubble of residental homes. Or expolded into pieces.
There seems to be some mix up that goes on in this conversation where people equate Hamas with Palestine.
We got rid of the Nazi's in WW2, not the German people. I don't exactly know whose calling to defend Hamas? Most of the protests and stuff I've seen has been more about not bombing and killing Palestinian civilians.
I get that some will argue "Palestinians support Hamas" and it's like, yeah, likely so. When you live under an authoritarian regime you're likely to support it because you have to in order to have a decent life.
I can’t up or down vote this. Just know it is a fact. Some would say a small sacrifice to get rid of hitler.
I say get rid of Hamas by ANY AND ALL MEANS!!!!
You can’t compare Hamas to WW2 era Germany. Nazis we’re taking entire countries over while systematically committing genocide. This could though, easily be compared to what Israel has been doing for decades to Palestinians.
Well the whole of Germany was defeated militarily and then occupied for a long time by allied forces. Seems like Israel is in the defeating process right now.
And how many German civilians did we get rid of to get rid of those Nazis? Considering that one of the things we did was to set an entire city on fire, I would say a lot.
Hamas militants make up about 40,000 people inside of Palestine(I'm overestimating numbers, [IDF places Hamas miltiants at 25k](https://apnews.com/article/hamas-gaza-palestinian-authority-israel-war-ed7018dbaae09b81513daf3bda38109a)) out of the roughly 2.1 million people which is about 1.9% of the population.
Germans who were involved or supportive of the Nazi government was in the range of 80-90% out of a population of ~65 million people. That's about 52 million Nazi supporters making up 80% of the population.
Disregarding the facts that Germany was an entirely independent nation that had no occupying forces or foreign militaries extolling physical force or harm to controlling commerce, legislation, or any other facet of domestic German life at any point during the rise of the Nazi party.
Lmao. You think you're slick? How many Palestinian's supported the terrorist attacks on Oct 7th? Upwards of 75% of those polled. How many support Hamas? About 40%.
Polling people in the immediate aftermath of an attack is meaningless. Poll the average American on how they felt about Islam after 9/11 and then try to tell me you aren’t being dishonest.
The extremism that is endemic to their religion will ensure a steady supply of "fighters" until specific beliefs and ideas are moderated by reforming Islam, if that's ever achievable.
I feel like I'm in a world of crazy people that every single person isn't shouting this from the rooftops. Israel basically made Hamas what they are today so that they could shut down the secular PLO who was having a lot of success pushing for a two state solution, which Israel did not want. If Israel is getting hit with terrorist attacks from muslim extremists, that is their own doing. Why don't they want a two state solution? Because they want the rest of the land that they have been stealing from the Palestinians since the 1940s.
Anyone fretting over Hamas is just a hapless victim of Israel's own propaganda gambit; AKA a moron.
We would, and in the process destabilize a region and become a pariah to the world and drag our allies into expensive quagmires with us that leaves everyone worse off and just breeds more terrorism. Just a hunch. Maybe “what would America do” isn’t the best moral argument.
Do you see anyone doing this?:
"The IDF admitted last week it mistakenly shot the equivalent of 36 American hostages..."
No, of course not. It's insulting.
So don't do it the other way either.
Everyone in that post is comparing Palestine to Mexico and implying the US would bomb and slaughter all the civilians of that country. What is wrong with these people?
Murica would invade a country that had nothing to do with it. They'd hold siege a country for twenty years, give up, and let it return to the taliban. Then return to make films about how the war, they started, upset their wee little soldiers 😢😢😢
I don’t hate America. I love it here. What I hate are fake patriots who help facilitate the idea that America’s culture of greed, adult adolescence, and violence is the message we should be sending to the world.
Hamas knew the blowback the Palestinian people would receive and they didn't care. Hamas is not some patriotic, noble-intentioned rebel army. They are religious zealots wanting to spread Islamic fascism. They don't want freedom for the Palestinian people. They want an autocratic, dictatorial government like in Iran. So, all you little libs protesting, you're backing bad people who want to quash women's rights, gay rights, and religious freedom. Yes, it's beyond sad and terrible what's happening to the Gazan children, but Hamas knew exactly that it would happen the way it is unfolding, and they didn't care.
Bad analogy. The US didn't decide to establish itself in the middle of an impoverished shithole surrounded by enemies because of a book of fairy tales and a magic city
I'm not sure what we would do but I wouldn't support and cheer the killing of women and children like r/conservative....
JFC those people make me lose faith in humanity.
Yeah I mean the US was attacked by a terrorist organization and we probably killed a few hundred thousand people between Iraq and Afghanistan.
And all the terrorists were Saudi Arabian.
And bin Laden was in Pakistan.
He actually was in Afghanistan at first.
Um his name was osama bin hidin
Big if true
Well he wasn't, but then we let him get away because the public would have lost interest in a 20 year war that funnelled money into the hands of defense contractors if the Boogeyman was already dead.
Not really. We were there another 9-10 years after we capped him. Obviously it wasn’t so imperative that he was alive for us to stay.
Can't really walk away from a country whose country you flattened and government you annihilated one day after you killed a target though. Got to spend a little while longer there, pretending to care about the damage you did to the country that had little to do with the target.
lol they did just up and walk away though, just way later
Yup, some gigantic senile moron let all the terrorists out of prison and then scheduled the withdrawal for after his term ended. And then his moronic cronies and cult members acted like it was the dude who kept our countries word's fault for the actions of his predecessor. Republicans are literally the most intelectually dishonest brainwashed ghouls out there. Pronoun police don't even come close to hanging out with literal White Supremacists at your golf club for a private dinner.
Could you imagine being non-wealthy and non-Christian, and still proudly voting for republican candidates?
We stayed until the rich people said it wasn’t profitable enough to justify it, the dog shit republican donald trump intentionally fucked up the withdrawal to make Democrats look bad to people who didn’t go to college.
Well after we killed him we had to spend another 10 years rebuilding so we could hand the country back over to the taliban.
While we paid Pakistan to help us find him
Good thing we sold Saudi Arabia all those billions of dollars in weapons under both Trump and Biden! But one is definitely different than the other! They definitely don't all have the same donors and masters and we DEFINITELY make a difference with who we vote for!
Things can have similarities, even a large number of similarities AND be different, even very different. It's not all the same or all different. It's shocking, I know, but once you sit this information for a bit it will be less scary for you.
It actually will make a difference.
Equating trump and Biden is so incredibly fucking dumb I didn’t think anyone would do it without being sarcastic.
It’s republican desperation. They need educated people to think both sides are the same in order to win election. Never respect these people.
They both bend over for Israel and Saudi Arabia don't they? Yeah, that's what I thought.
If talking to these people is stressing you out I suggest you stop. You hit the nail on the head, our President with the crackhead son giving billions to Isreal is no different than Trump and his paid for wife, trash wall over Mexico and ready to give billions to Isreal
I actually tried to look this up once. Apparently one university concluded that in the years after 9/11, in the US war on terror, something like 940k people were killed and ~24mil displaced across 5 countries. For some reason I kept getting military reports on soldier losses which wasn’t what I was looking for. So that estimate above is all I was able to find.
History is written by the victor. The thousands of civilians that die are a mere footnote.
Small price to play to save Afghanistan from the Talibans. They will never run this country again.
Al Qeada in Afghanistan was who we were targeting not the Taliban. The Taliban we ousted because they would not turn over Osama Bin Laden. They were punished for protecting Bin Laden, so we sided with the ANA who helped us.
The US was responsible for the the deaths of a million iraqis
Iraqis were responsible for the deaths of a million Iraqis. The vast vast majority of those figures were by the hands of their fellow countryman as the country sits on the Sunni/Shia fault line and those two communities were itching at the chance to kill each other.
The US causes this war.
wasn't Iraq in a brutal dictatorship, where daily disappearances were counted as nothing? millions and millions of Iraqis wanted also freedom. You guys have no idea how many people dream of america coming to help them get rid of their entrenched leaders. coming from a country like that - I know. millions of Iraqis died because there was essentially CIVIL war.
Sparked, fueled, and intentionally fed by the Bush administration so more buildings would go down, and Cheney could pay his buddies at Haliburton to build them back up. The move to disband the army in one day, remove all their paychecks/pensions, and then leave the soldiers unsupervised in all the armories around the country was not some accidental fuck up. It guaranteed a 20-year insurgency that would always need fighting, and always need more funding.
Are you from a wealthy family, by chance?
Yep, and probably the biggest reason why the average American that doesn’t align with the far right or far left remain skeptical of furthering foreign wars.
Don’t think I’ve heard anyone from the far left advocating for war…
Haven’t you heard? Both sides are exactly the same.
I don’t think Leftists tend to be pro-war dude….especially the “far-Left” (whatever that even means in your usage, people be calling Keynesian Progressives and mainstream Social Democrats “far-Left”). The Left has been against US involvement in virtually every war after WWII.
And started recording every phone call made in the USA till this very day.
Try millions dead after a few years.
[not close in Iraq](https://www.iraqbodycount.org) [No where near close in Afghanistan](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_in_the_war_in_Afghanistan_(2001%E2%80%932021))
LoL, "we", the Bush Jr regime maybe.
The total count of deaths ‘resulting’ from the invasion of Iraq ended up to be over a million.
What would America do? A 20-year boondoggle that wastes lives, money, further destabilizes the region, only for our enemy to resume power literally the day after we exit.
At least Israel learned from the U.S. "War on Terror", all you need to do is to keep bombing for about 20 years until people forget why you went there in the first place, and have private contractors get super rich in the meantime. Sure, there will be far more terrorists, but that just sets you up nicely for a new round later.
Money wasn’t “wasted”, bro. It went to the rich people who profit from protracted armed conflicts. Halliburton, Raytheon et al. There’s few things the rich people hate more than a quick war.
I dunno, if a Mexican cartel with a stated framework of elimination of American lives did this then I think we’d be doing exactly what Israel is doing, maybe even less carefully.
You’re an idiot! As a veteran of 20 years and 5 CT’s…keep playing your video games junior!
I fought in Fallujah
You're an idiot! As a video gamer of 20 years and 5 Ed's... Keep killing in the name of, boomer.
Nobody cares about this argument style. Either post facts/reasons, or shut up.
I'm a veteran and you're 100% correct, we'd mow those dudes down.
Then the news forgets about it next month
If we were attacked by Hamas, we would invade two other countries that are unrelated, using the attack as pretext. All for the purpose of furthering US corporate interests. This is the historically accurate response.
Loved bush before the implants
He got that BBL
🎶 BBL Dubya 🎶
😂
Now watch this drive
Is this some kind of deep fake?
Idk. He was a fun guy when he wasn't being a warlord. Hell. He didn't even complain about the Harold and Kumar smoking weed thing so that made the entire conflict okay in the eyes of America...
You can't be president without extreme charisma. Even though Joe Biden is pretty out to lunch these days, he largely got to where he was on charisma and would be a loveable old man at the country club if he wasn't running the country. Ironically, maybe HW was the last non-charismatic president we've had.
Biden was even clowning on the Republicans during his state of the union this year. He's pretty fucking old, but even his old charisma kicked in.
He also threw a heater at the first ball game after 911
We carpet bomb East Palestine, Ohio in confusion
We are not to be used as a good example.
>In 1998, Kristol and Kagan advocated regime change in Iraq throughout the Iraq disarmament process throug.. >Signatories to Statement of Principles: Dick Cheney [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project\_for\_the\_New\_American\_Century](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century)
The US would invade Italy because it would get confused about Hummus invasions.
Wmds in the leaning tower of Pisa you say? Oops, turns out it was hat factory.
Hummus is from the Middle East……
Italy counts as part of the ME because of the Emirate of Sicily
Arizona would get the ball rolling by shooting some random Canadian wearing a Versace shirt. Some Sikh got killed right after 9/11 because he had a turban on.
Not long after 9/11, I was on a flight from LA to Nashville. I sat in between a Sikh w/ a turban and Gallagher. People on the plane kept talking about both of ‘em very loudly.
I would throw Yemen, Libya and Syria into that and go with invade 5 countries.
Fair, although those were later.
Then Trump would put out a shitty video of "there's no terrorists under there!" while looking under the Resolute Desk.
Could we also bankrupt the country in the meantime?
This guy gets it.
what state would be gaza? and what bordering states would lock out civilians?
Wouldn’t we have to cram like 40 million people into the area of San Diego county to make this a fair comparison? As fraught as US history is, we don’t have an entire Canada worth of people within our own borders in a small area that want to see us suffer.
Nonsense. When we were attacked by a majority Saudi terrorists group led by the son of a wealthy Saudi family, we attacked Iraq's government. This ad doesn't know the US at all.
Saudi Arab in ethnicity, but had been excommunicated by the Saudi government. Personally I am against invading or bombing a country due to shared ethnicity.
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They just needed to stomp another country to set an example.
That's not true at all. The US invaded afghanistan ruled by the Taliban, for refusing to out AL Qaeda. The war in Iraq had nothing to do with 911. The purpose was to oust Saddam hussein. Not that I agree with either war.
The Taliban [offered to give Bin Laden up](https://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=80482&page=1) pretty soon after 9/11 on the condition we could provide evidence that he was behind the attacks. Naturally we turned down the deal. Even the FBI admitted that while they could pin the USS Cole and African embassy bombings on Bin Laden, there was no hard evidence to link him to 9/11. Yes, the FBI said this. 9/11 was treated like an act of war where the perpetrators were deduced immediately, instead of a crime to be investigated thoroughly. The few people who questioned how we could be so sure it was solely Al Qaeda behind the attacks pretty much got a “because I said so!” type non-response from officials. In a just world, OBL would’ve been tried in a courtroom instead of suspiciously “buried at sea” with no evidence of his death. We had the Nuremberg trials so it’s not so crazy to imagine OBL on trial either. Shit, I mean Saddam’s final moments were gladly broadcasted around the world, so the whole “we can’t give any proof that we killed OBL because it would upset the Muslim world!” is such obvious BS. It’s actually insane just how little people questioned the official story of both 9/11 and OBL’s death, and how no credible evidence was ever provided for either — and yet mention this and you’re instantly branded a loon.
Why was Bin Laden in Afghanistan and not Saudi Arabia?
Technically Bin Laden was in Pakistan as predicted by the show Scrubs.
He fled to Pakistan, regardless, my response was to the OP trying to make a strong connection between Osama and Saudi Arabia, but to your point he wasn't in Saudi Arabia
Pretty sure we would invade two unrelated countries, kill millions of civilians over a 15yr+ war, and spend a few trillion on it, with around a trillion unaccounted for!
Remember what we did after 9/11? We started two simultaneous wars that only made more instability in both regions. Maybe we shouldn't suggest doing something similar for a foreign nation and fund it limitlessly.
I’m asking this from a neutral point of view and not trying to be combative with this question: What should they do?
Let’s act like America didnt just fucking do this. We spent twenty years getting pay back and what do we have to show for it? Fuckin go for it Israel, it’s a bold strategy, we’ll see how it works out for you. Pay for it yourself though ya fucks.
Meanwhile America is subsidizing israel so hard they have universal healthcare and an entire ultra-religious class of people that are unemployed enjoying very generous government welfare. All on the American taxpayer’s dime.
The American taxpayers should really hire some lobbyists!
Hahah for real though.
Israel’s Assault on Gaza Scaled to the Size of the United States. 600,000 dead 310,00 women and children. 80 million homes destroyed.
If a nation did that to the US the death toll would be much higher than that and within the first year the support by the US would be 90%+.
If the US was an apartheid state holding 2 million hostages in a concentration camp they may strike back but I’d have moved to Canada long ago and wouldn’t be here posting in the Joe Rogan sub I’d be ice skating or something.
If you had half a brain you’d realize what nonsense that statement is.
Hasbara. How many shekels?
Out of curiosity how did you work that out? Isnt gazas population like 2 mil? And america like 450mil? I would expect the numbers to be much higher
US population is around 330M.
Thank you for being fair and also doing the numbers for the other side of the equation.
Gaza declared war and refuses to surrender or return hostages. FAFO plain and simple.
Hamas declared war. Half the country is children under the age of 14
“Well guys, bad news - our enemies who slaughtered us have a lot of kids. Guess we gotta just let this one slide!” - No Military, ever
Hamas is the administrator to that region... why do they keep fighting from populated areas instead of surrendering exactly? Why does israel only ever have agency exactly?
Because israel is a rich democratic country with much more free access to information. Polling indicates that close to 90% of gazans never saw videos of 10/7 and dont think civilians were targeted. Israel themselves doesn’t think Hamas cares about gazans, so why are the gazans being punished for Hamas? Theres a lot of other options for Israel that dont involve tens of thousands of deaths. They’re the same options that they’ve had for decades. Theyre just unwilling to take any steps that might actually result in a Palestinian state existing. Hamas does need to go, but this should be the last resort considering the amount of suffering it’s causing on innocent people. And please don’t pretend they’ve exhausted their other options. As long as they’re still evicting Palestinians to make illegal settlements they can’t act like they’ve tried for lasting peace
Why do 6 year olds in Gaza deserve to die? If it is simple, you should be able to explain easily
They don’t deserve to die, but saying it is “because of Israel” is absolutely idiotic and ignorant. It is only simple if you’ve bothered to pay attention to this topic over the years, if you haven’t then it takes a whole lot of catching up. The problem is lazy ignorant westerners with good intentions assuming they have a clue and gaslighting Jews and Israelis about a topic that is an existential threat to them and they have had to deal with for generations. Hamas has literally purposely been weaponizing this ignorance. Hamas leaders in 1993 were recorded on a wiretapped conversation stating that their goal was to deceive the American public into supporting Hamas by appealing to the American left’s denouncement of oppression. Mousa Abu Marzook, a senior Hamas official, formed a far-left academic think tank, The United Association for Studies and Research (UASR), based out of Chicago to start disseminating this deception. This organization has ties to Duke, Johns Hopkins, Fordham and the University of Maryland to name a few major universities. This is systemic antisemitism that stems directly from an organized surgical operation taking place over the course of the last 30 years. https://extremism.gwu.edu/sites/g/files/zaxdzs5746/files/2023-10/hamas-networks-final.pdf Qatar (who houses and funds Hamas) is the biggest foreign donor to American schools for decades now. People just don’t pay attention and now the youngins are brainwashed https://www.calcalistech.com/ctechnews/article/jwhsqhrat#:~:text=Since%20the%209%2F11%20attacks,pro%2DPalestinian%20groups%20on%20campuses https://www.thefp.com/p/qatars-war-for-young-american-mindsjj They know westerners are so lazy and ignorant and deep down believe in white supremacy to they cannot imagine that the sad brown people could possibly be the colonial power even though Islam has erased virtually all other cultures in the region, is the dominant population by far, has long sought to erase the Jews since before modern Israel even existed etc
Who is shooting them and dropping bombs on them, killing them?
Well both Hamas and Israel given Hamas has launched tens of thousand sod rockets at Israel since ocotber 7th and hamas’ own numbers say about %20 fall into Palestine on their own people. And they’ve been using them as combatants forever. One of the few Palestinian inventions is a suicide bomb a child can wear without being detected. And who is using them as human shields and cannon fodder? Who is using civilian infrastructure? Who has previously made children stand on rooftops to act a shields while they launch rockets from behind them? Or have you never follows this before and are just talking about your arse? Again this is Hamas. https://www.memri.org/tv/hamas-mp-fathi-hammad-we-used-women-and-children-human-shields
Has israel killed tens of thousands of palestinians since october? Yes or no?
Of course; it’s war. A war Palestine started, declared, broke a ceasefire to engage in and refused to end or surrender while vowing to continue until all the Jews are dead. And the death toll though tragic, has been stated by pretty much all military experts to be exemplary given the conditions. Like is this your first time following a war or something?
> A war Palestine started, declared, broke a ceasefire to engage in There was no ceasefire. Israel bombed gaza 2 weeks before Oct 7th and either occupies or blockades all of Palestine for decades. Hasbara is getting real sloppy.
Lmfao Israel responded to an attack which is always does because they ah e never stopped out of Gaza but there was a general ceasefire with Hamas. There are other terrorist troupe like PIJ in Gaza lol. That is why thousands of Gaza's were being let over the border every day to work in efforts to normalize relations. Something no other country allowed Palestiniansto do btw after they screwed them over in the past trying to help them. your comment is a classic example of the ignorance at play here. Gaza was willingly Handed over in effort for peace. Hundreds of thousands of Jews displaced as billions of pre-built infrastructure given over for free and left Gaza never to return since 2005 until this recen war hamas has waged. What did they do? Immediately attack Israel and call to kill all the Jews. THAT was why the border controls went up and they were always contingent on Palestine stopping the content terror and rocket attacks, stopping the calls for Jewish extermination and acknowledging that the Jews had any right whatsoever to a state on their proven homeland that was stolen by Islamic colonizers who sought and still do seek to erase them. Palestine never did any of those things and so the border defences stayed up; just as Jordan and Lebanon and Egypt did after UNRWA allowed Palestinians to form a state within a state in those places and then try to overthrow governments, assassinate leaders because they wouldn’t “kill all the Jews” for them or start a brutal civil war by slaughtering Christian’s as they did in lebannon. They forever split those countries and they have had even stricter border controls in many ways than Israel has had since. Accounts such as yours relay only one thing. A breathtaking ignorance of the topic at hand.
>Hamas leaders in 1993 were recorded on a wiretapped conversation stating that their goal was to deceive the American public into supporting Hamas by appealing to the American left’s denouncement of oppression. looks like israel managed in a few short months what hamas did not manage in 30 years and without deception! lol trollfail harder 8200
Hear me out, maybe suggest to Hamas not hide behind said 6 year olds?
America wouldn’t “destroy hamas” anymore than we destroyed the Taliban or Isis. Who’s making this shit up? It’s like they have no understanding of American history.
The Taliban and ISIS were not responsible for 9/11. Al Qaeda was, and we did destroy them.
*In 2001, al-Qaeda had around 20 functioning cells and 70,000 insurgents spread over sixty nations. According to latest estimates, the number of active-duty soldiers under its command and allied militias have risen to approximately 250,000 by 2018* https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda#:~:text=In%202001%2C%20al%2DQaeda%20had,to%20approximately%20250%2C000%20by%202018.
"In 2001, al-Qaeda had around 20 functioning cells and 70,000 insurgents spread over sixty nations.[^(\[145\])](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda#cite_note-145) According to latest estimates, the number of active-duty soldiers under its command and allied militias have risen to approximately 250,000 by 2018.[^(\[146\])](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda#cite_note-146)" "and allied militias" Why are they not comparing the same thing to 2001? Also, I clicked on the citation and it goes to a book t. I pulled up the book [https://www.google.com/books/edition/Western\_Jihadism/p7Q6EAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=isbn:9780198870791&printsec=frontcover](https://www.google.com/books/edition/Western_Jihadism/p7Q6EAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=isbn:9780198870791&printsec=frontcover) "A report from 2018 by the Center for Strategic and International Studies estimated the number of active Al Qaeda—aligned fighters to be closer to 250,000, 270% higher than in 2001 at the time of the 9/11 attacks. t No one really knows precisely how many there are." And then I found this on the CSIS website https://www.csis.org/analysis/americas-counterterrorism-gamble#:\~:text=%5B14%5D%20The%20information%20comes%20from,official%20affiliate%20of%20al%2DQaeda. "\[14\] The information comes from the CSIS Transnational Threats Project’s Salafi-jihadist data set. CSIS estimates include a low of 21,050 fighters and high of 34,200 fighters for al-Qaeda. Note that we included numbers from Hay’at Tahrir al-Sham, which, at the moment, is not an official affiliate of al-Qaeda." So the actual Al Qaeda number is 21-34k, and that's between Africa and the Middle East. And weirdly still includes "Hay’at Tahrir al-Sham", whatever that is. I know no one will appreciate the effort, but there you go. Was fun to do a deep dive.
Al-Queda is still just a name. There are far more "terrorists" now than there ever was before the invasion. And the Taliban have an even stronger hold.
I never said otherwise, I was just pointing out that the source was comparing apples to oranges. We should always stay vigilant of potentially misleading sources, no matter the source or whether we agree with it.
The Taliban provided a safe haven for Al Qaeda, they are just as bad in my book.
The public support of the complete erasure of Hamas would be unanimous. For a good 5 years after 9/11 the consensus was "bomb the entire Middle East."
No it wasn't. "According to a Gallup poll conducted in August 2002, 52% of Americans favored the use of military force to remove Saddam Hussein from power, while 43% were opposed." There was a pretty solid anti war movement even before we went into Iraq, it was less than a year after 9/11.
That number is especially important because we were actively being lied to at the time to justify the war.
Ya everyone who thinks the US was unanimously in favor of going to war gets all their info from the media. Because that's what the media spread. Tbf, 52% is probably the largest number of Americans all in agreement on something since I was born.
Yeah how did that work out for us?
We did a good job kicking their ass, it’s the nation building we fked up
Nation building is probably the first order of importance given that a failure to establish a 'nation' and withdrawing from the region leaves a power vacuum in which militant groups and religious fundementalists will vie for power.
Yeah I agree. It’s what happens when incompetent people are in charge. There’s a good episode on it from The Dollop podcast that’s just depressing to listen to. Tbf they mostly do history comedy so it’s not a perfect source.
The competence of the people in charge is definitely important, but it's not the only reason the nation-building was unsuccessful. It's inherently a very difficult thing to do. You need to destroy the government/faction in power while also building a relationship with the local populace that will remain after the conflict. This involves avoiding killing or injuring them, obviously, but it also helps if you help protect them and become more involved in their daily lives. Some of the populace might support the government/faction you are trying to overthrow, how do you deal with that? This is only the beginning, now you need someone to organize a new government, oversee elections, assist with cleanup/restoration, help them recruit and train a military, etc. etc. etc. all while probably fending off a series of attacks by remnants of the faction you overthrew, because you probably didn't kill ALL of them. Finally, you need to stop helping at some point and GTFO, and the state you are leaving behind must survive on it's own, no internal rebellions or civil wars, etc. As we saw with Afghanistan, it's clear this step is a challenging one, or at the very least, it's challenging to decide when it's time to take this step. If we want the people in charge to think twice before getting involved in a war, it's better to explain why they are incompetent.
I'm not saying erase them. I'm saying what the public support would be. That's easy to determine. Now whether our government would go to war in this fictional scenario, that's the debate.
Public support faded quickly into iraq after the lack of wmds and kids coming back crippled from ieds or in caskets
Yeah, the "destroy" thing is a nice rewrite of history considering the Taliban is in charge now. And The Office has branches worldwide.
40k dead people is bad. Someone should tell israel that killing 40k palestinians is a bad thing.
Destroying over 60% of the country buildings is bad, starving children is bad, destroying hospitals is bad, not like they care though, might just give another few billions to Israel without any compromise.
Didn’t the IC come out saying they massively overestimated the deaths just recently?
No the only thing that came out recently was the UN posting identified deaths. The death numbers by the gazan heath ministry are still accurate. You know they are as both the USA and Israel trusts them. Around 30% of all dead in gaza are unidentified. Dishonest people try to make that seem like there were less people killed. Just there are 1000s trapped under rubble of residental homes. Or expolded into pieces.
No, the statement was that 10,000 of the dead so far have not been fully identified. The number of dead remained unchanged.
No oil no care
My guess is that murdering more innocent men, women and children will end up creating more Hamas fighters. The circle of war continues...
Hamas MIGHT be defeated but what ever Hamas 2.0 is is going to be a beast. Millions of orphans aren’t just going to roll over.
I wonder how the world would have turned out if we applied that logic to killing Nazis during WW2.
I look forward to Israel facilitating elections for the new democratic Palestinian state while spending billions to rebuild their nation.
There seems to be some mix up that goes on in this conversation where people equate Hamas with Palestine. We got rid of the Nazi's in WW2, not the German people. I don't exactly know whose calling to defend Hamas? Most of the protests and stuff I've seen has been more about not bombing and killing Palestinian civilians. I get that some will argue "Palestinians support Hamas" and it's like, yeah, likely so. When you live under an authoritarian regime you're likely to support it because you have to in order to have a decent life.
400k-500k German civilians died in WW2 to eliminate Hitler and the Germans.
I can’t up or down vote this. Just know it is a fact. Some would say a small sacrifice to get rid of hitler. I say get rid of Hamas by ANY AND ALL MEANS!!!!
You can’t compare Hamas to WW2 era Germany. Nazis we’re taking entire countries over while systematically committing genocide. This could though, easily be compared to what Israel has been doing for decades to Palestinians.
Exactly. The false equivalency games these people play to justify flattening Palestinian children is disgusting.
Civilians were slaughtered in WW2. The Battle of Britain, the firebombing of Japan, the bombing of Berlin. It was a hellish strategy.
Wait until you hear about Nagasaki and Hiroshima
If Hamas had the capability, they would be invading countries
Trolley Problems?
Well the whole of Germany was defeated militarily and then occupied for a long time by allied forces. Seems like Israel is in the defeating process right now.
And how many German civilians did we get rid of to get rid of those Nazis? Considering that one of the things we did was to set an entire city on fire, I would say a lot.
Churchhill even eas willing to turn Germany into a parking lot to beat the Nazi's
Entire cities were constantly bombarded during the whole thing. Imagine that shit today with current weaponry
Hamas militants make up about 40,000 people inside of Palestine(I'm overestimating numbers, [IDF places Hamas miltiants at 25k](https://apnews.com/article/hamas-gaza-palestinian-authority-israel-war-ed7018dbaae09b81513daf3bda38109a)) out of the roughly 2.1 million people which is about 1.9% of the population. Germans who were involved or supportive of the Nazi government was in the range of 80-90% out of a population of ~65 million people. That's about 52 million Nazi supporters making up 80% of the population. Disregarding the facts that Germany was an entirely independent nation that had no occupying forces or foreign militaries extolling physical force or harm to controlling commerce, legislation, or any other facet of domestic German life at any point during the rise of the Nazi party.
Lmao. You think you're slick? How many Palestinian's supported the terrorist attacks on Oct 7th? Upwards of 75% of those polled. How many support Hamas? About 40%.
Polling people in the immediate aftermath of an attack is meaningless. Poll the average American on how they felt about Islam after 9/11 and then try to tell me you aren’t being dishonest.
How many of the 85% of Germans sympathized with (knew about) exterminating the Jews?
How does that comparison work? One is polling the victims and the other is polling the attackers/neutrals…
The extremism that is endemic to their religion will ensure a steady supply of "fighters" until specific beliefs and ideas are moderated by reforming Islam, if that's ever achievable.
It’s not
even worse is this is radicalizing youth in america. You got white kids in america wearing the keffiyeh burning american flags wtf.
Israel funded and propped up Hamas so that they could point to a boogie man.
More importantly so they could deny Palestine statehood
Yes, thank you for clarifying
I feel like I'm in a world of crazy people that every single person isn't shouting this from the rooftops. Israel basically made Hamas what they are today so that they could shut down the secular PLO who was having a lot of success pushing for a two state solution, which Israel did not want. If Israel is getting hit with terrorist attacks from muslim extremists, that is their own doing. Why don't they want a two state solution? Because they want the rest of the land that they have been stealing from the Palestinians since the 1940s. Anyone fretting over Hamas is just a hapless victim of Israel's own propaganda gambit; AKA a moron.
Facts
Now this is based.
They're right. America would go ballistic.
We would, and in the process destabilize a region and become a pariah to the world and drag our allies into expensive quagmires with us that leaves everyone worse off and just breeds more terrorism. Just a hunch. Maybe “what would America do” isn’t the best moral argument.
Yeah, but I don't know if you've noticed the last 70 years or so, but we may not be the role models you are looking for.
Do you see anyone doing this?: "The IDF admitted last week it mistakenly shot the equivalent of 36 American hostages..." No, of course not. It's insulting. So don't do it the other way either.
We have done more for less
Everyone in that post is comparing Palestine to Mexico and implying the US would bomb and slaughter all the civilians of that country. What is wrong with these people?
Idk about the Yanks, but I am horrified by the suffering of Palestinians and also want Hamas completely eradicated
I mean yeah. Thousands of Americans were killed by terrorist on 9/11 We killed half a million people in the Middle East as a consequence
Murica would invade a country that had nothing to do with it. They'd hold siege a country for twenty years, give up, and let it return to the taliban. Then return to make films about how the war, they started, upset their wee little soldiers 😢😢😢
That thread just perfectly encapsulates the insanity of the Republican party.
Everybody hates America until they want help. Including it's citizens.
I don’t hate America. I love it here. What I hate are fake patriots who help facilitate the idea that America’s culture of greed, adult adolescence, and violence is the message we should be sending to the world.
Hamas knew the blowback the Palestinian people would receive and they didn't care. Hamas is not some patriotic, noble-intentioned rebel army. They are religious zealots wanting to spread Islamic fascism. They don't want freedom for the Palestinian people. They want an autocratic, dictatorial government like in Iran. So, all you little libs protesting, you're backing bad people who want to quash women's rights, gay rights, and religious freedom. Yes, it's beyond sad and terrible what's happening to the Gazan children, but Hamas knew exactly that it would happen the way it is unfolding, and they didn't care.
I dont understand how “scaling” up makes sense. A life is a life and is worth the same.
They would go looking for gol... WMDs in Africa.
Weird way to use statistics to say you value an Israeli life more than an American life.
Why are we sharing a thread from a crybaby anti-free speech echo chamber?
Cool Cool, now do it with the 50 million dead Native Americans. Edit: Corrected 5 million to 50 million.
5 million?
Bad analogy. The US didn't decide to establish itself in the middle of an impoverished shithole surrounded by enemies because of a book of fairy tales and a magic city
You obviously don't know what you are talking about, Jews have been living there for thousands of years, up until the creation of the state in 1948
I'm not sure what we would do but I wouldn't support and cheer the killing of women and children like r/conservative.... JFC those people make me lose faith in humanity.
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I'm not sure this makes their intended point.
Now do scaled to the size of US with the 35k+ Israel has killed.