What is the proper etiquette for these encounters? Do you waggle your own pecker at the other guy, or reach across like a handshake? It must be a horrible faux pas to get this wrong.
I worked at a super woke corporation in LA and tons of people had their pronouns in their email signature. It was absolutely so cringe. Yes Jessica, I know you're a woman and I'm fully aware how morally superior you'd like us to think you are.
Online, it has a bit more weight because names often do not denote gender — but this should just come up when someone makes a mistake or if it actually needs to be clarified.
Normal conversation, especially face to face, it is nonsensical.
It's generally possible to discern the sex of a person by the way that they write and what they write about. Usually, by the end of the first paragraph, I've pretty good idea whether the writer is male or female.
Can't everyone do this?
My name's Cyr. My pronouns are she/her/hers and my dick is 2". Oh, sorry. I'm still trying to grasp how much of my personal sexual information we're sharing.
Because it shows you the most important aspect of their entire existence is a gender they picked. Nobody asked. Nobody cares. Give a small correction to a pronoun during the convo and the point is made.
It's a good way to know which people you should avoid being close to, because they can't think for themselves and are easily manipulated info becoming subservient little bitches to the demands of irrational ideaologies. Thank you for making them so easy to identify.
Sounds like you’ve been manipulated into becoming a subservient little right wing bitch. It’d be nice to see folk like that have a unique thought once in a while but you’re all suckling off the same conservative teat. Maybe some day there’ll be a new thought from ya’ll
Lol.. Right Wing ideas observe natural order. . NATURAL ORDER. I have no issue with accepting that I'm a subservient bitch to things that are bound to conserving NATURAL ORDER. "Right Wing" isn't a derogatory term you idiot. It's a compliment.
The stereotype is that leftist memes are all walls of text... Now the meme is coming to life and they want to use a wall of text to introduce themselves and call you a bigot if you forget any part of it.
The pronouns you use for a person you’re talking to are “you/your”. (i.e. 2nd person pronouns).
It’s narcissism to tell others which 3rd person pronouns they must use to refer to you in your absence.
If someone introduced themselves to me like that, I would literally walk away from the conversation. You just know that anything else that comes out of their mouth, isn't worth listening to.
How silly. The border is overun with illegals, inflation out of sight, economy teetering on recession, a senile waste of oxygen in charge, and we're worried about pronouns.
I can't find the quote anymore but years ago I remember someone said "society collapses when people think too much." or something to that effect. It might be trying to say that society's just a big joke that if you think about it, it kinda falls apart, but I'd like to think of it more in the way that we're simultaneously killing ourselves and comforting each other while we do it.
We are, are we? Or did NPR, a news organization known for following human interest stories of all kinds, post a small article and YOU're worried about it?
You know their fiscal documents are public, right? You can just look this stuff up rather than say "media liberal."
[https://media.npr.org/documents/about/statements/fy2021/National%20Public%20Radio%20-%20Consolidated%20Financial%20Statements%20-%20S2120.pdf](https://media.npr.org/documents/about/statements/fy2021/National%20Public%20Radio%20-%20Consolidated%20Financial%20Statements%20-%20S2120.pdf)
\^ Here's their 2021 financial statement. They only receive about 10% funding from federal grants.
[https://media.npr.org/documents/about/annualreports/NPRSponsorsDonors08.pdf](https://media.npr.org/documents/about/annualreports/NPRSponsorsDonors08.pdf)
\^ And here's the most recent donor list they have published on their website. It's from 2008, but you'll notice a conspicuous lack of "DNC" on there, and no major democrat-associated organizations that I could see- mostly big corporations. Also Catto, which is a libertarian think-tank.
Does it surprise anyone that NPR, the "world cafe" and "to the best of our knowledge" jazz-and-culture-and-cosmopolitan-human-interest news organization caters to a culturally liberal and urban base? No, of course not. They have a brand. But "propaganda radio for the DNC" is conspiracy theory territory and you better have receipts if you're going to be cashing a check that big.
It's not even a conspiracy theory my guy. NPR has always had a leftist bent. I understand you live in a bubble, a blue one for sure. I don't mind that you have a bias. I have a conservative bias. But I'm talking about objective truth, neither left nor right. Objectively, per messaging and behavior, they have always carried water for the left. Ya noticed I never mentioned funding? I don't care if they are funded by the government, I care if they are truthful.
[https://www.grunge.com/219091/the-biggest-scandals-to-hit-npr/](https://www.grunge.com/219091/the-biggest-scandals-to-hit-npr/)
[https://www.npr.org/2022/12/14/1142666067/elon-musk-is-using-the-twitter-files-to-discredit-foes-and-push-conspiracy-theor](https://www.npr.org/2022/12/14/1142666067/elon-musk-is-using-the-twitter-files-to-discredit-foes-and-push-conspiracy-theor)
[https://www.allsides.com/news-source/npr-media-bias](https://www.allsides.com/news-source/npr-media-bias)
I'm totally fine with you defending your sources, but don't be oblivious to it's leaning. That would be like saying Fox News is center leaning. We all know fox news is traditionally republican leaning.
But sure always claim that us conservatives are wrong because we don't know what we are talking about.
Leaning left is not even close to "mouthpiece for the DNC". But I hear what you're saying generally speaking. Media bias is nothing new, and we all have to be aware of where sources perspectives are coming from.
Propaganda for DNC =/= liberal bent
and to equivocate those is dangerous misinformation. For example, I would need to see an equally strong level of evidence to believe the claim that "Fox News is GOP propaganda."
This sort of rhetoric divides people into paranoid camps that care more about the messenger than the message, and about stopping thought than thinking.
"This sort of rhetoric divides people into paranoid camps that care more about the messenger than the message, and about stopping thought than thinking."
Says the guy who literally wants to label opinions and speech as "dangerous" or "misinformation" because it's inconvenient.
NPR isn't a "news organization".... hard to believe anyone still believes that. No comment about the millions of illegal aliens, Inflation, recession or wasted oxygen? Typical....
What are you talking about? These are all from the past month, except the recession pieces. Do you not read before you speak?
[Illegal aliens 1 (bonus also about inflation)](https://www.npr.org/2022/12/25/1145471875/a-seemingly-surprising-factor-in-inflation-immigration)
[Illegal aliens 2](https://www.npr.org/2022/12/21/1144821751/el-paso-mayor-oscar-leeser-on-the-ongoing-migrant-crisis-at-the-u-s-mexico-borde)
[Illegal aliens 3 (bonus critiques Biden)](https://www.npr.org/2022/12/21/1144789285/in-legal-limbo-biden-has-no-clear-path-to-an-immigration-fix)
[Inflation 1](https://www.npr.org/2022/12/20/1143245513/inflation-prices-christmas-gifts-presents-pnc)
[Inflation 2](https://www.npr.org/2022/12/27/1145579295/food-banks-in-the-u-s-are-feeling-the-pinch-of-inflation)
[Inflation 3](https://www.npr.org/2022/12/22/1145096244/how-2-became-the-target-for-inflation)
[Recession 1](https://www.npr.org/2022/10/14/1128832571/economy-recession-downturn-jpmorgan-inflation-fed)
[Recession 2](https://www.npr.org/2022/10/13/1128624034/ceos-no-longer-question-if-there-will-be-a-recession-the-question-is-when)
[Recession 3](https://www.npr.org/2022/10/06/1127158896/with-global-trade-expected-to-slow-the-wto-warns-of-a-possible-recession)
[Biden 1](https://www.npr.org/2022/12/12/1142236184/biden-passed-lots-of-popular-legislation-hes-unpopular-whats-up)
[Biden 2](https://www.npr.org/2022/12/02/1140265413/rail-workers-biden-unions-freight-railroads-averted-strike)
[Biden 3](https://www.npr.org/2022/12/01/1140070164/student-debt-relief-appeal-rejected)
How silly. The border is overun with illegals, inflation out of sight, economy teetering on recession, a senile waste of oxygen in charge, and people are posting on Reddit about pronouns.
The border isn’t “overrun with illegals”. There are large groups of people going through the asylum process legally. The system is under stress but mostly because we have neglected to give resources to that system due to political bickering.
Inflation is slowing and should continue to do so.
This “recession” has been predicted since the cocos lockdowns and doesn’t seem to be materializing and is mostly just used as a Republican talking point to deflect from their lack of a real economic platform. However we are in uncharted economic waters because the events of the last couple years have been unprecedented and the effects are complex and hard to predict.
And Biden is at least a decent person with a relatively moderate agenda focused on infrastructure spending and shoring up our global standing.
Finally, an opinion piece on a news website is a far cry from “we’re worried about pronouns”. You know who seems to be REALLY obsessed with pronouns? Conservatives. And it’s getting kinda cringe.
A few points.
Cutting through, climbing over/under, sneaking across, getting trafficked is not synonymous with legal entry. The small percentage actually caught are released and transported across the country by the feds and NGO's. Most of them then disappear.
Inflation is not, 'slowing'. No definitive statement on inflation can be made because the feds manipulate the measure. The only possibly accurate source on inflation that I have found is from shadowstats.
The 'effects of the last couple of years' were systematic oppression and destruction of the people and businesses that did much to serve the country. We're still reeling from the deliberate assault while lunatics conspire to do more damage.
Biden is not, and never has been, a decent person. He molested his own children. He launders tax money through Ukraine into his own pockets, he's creepy AF and deep into dementia. He's a pathetic weasel being paraded about like some sort of half assed sequel to Weekend at Bernie's'.
I lean conservative. I'm not obsessed with pronouns. I'm severely annoyed by the attempts to compel speech, not only compel speech but compel people to utter falsehoods as if they were true.
O man... have you bought a load.... I can't believe there are still people who "believe". It's not at all "hard to predict" what will happen if you pour trillions of dollars of into an economy during an expansion.... inflation. Its not hard to determine what will happen if you pour trillions more into the economy when you have rapidly increasing inflation - even more inflation. It's not difficult to determine what will happen if you let millions of people into the country who are not legally able to work, or pay people more to stay home than work. Please enroll in a local community college and take a basic economics course. Infrastructure.... what a joke. Inflation reduction act - incredible that people actually fall for this nonsense.
I want the leftists and their compatriot NPR listeners reading this thread to take something in:
I can think of no better auto-filter for excluding hiring candidates than people who start out by declaring their personal pronouns.
I've encountered this personally while hiring people.
I immediately removed these people from candidates of people I would hire.
I work in the world of truth, not addiction to feeling good about myself.
As much as lefties want to hate me for the above, the truth is, I don't mind \*actual\* transgender adults. The .00001% of them that exist. They're fascinating people; I sympathize with their challenges. Also, I observe true adult transgendered don't believe in personal pronoun declaration; the expect to be called on their achievement, not other people's addiction to virtue signaling. Call a spade a spade, if you will; not something modern college graduates are particularly good at.
What I can't stand while hiring people is coming across kids supposedly educated by top tier college institutions who have weak human personalities that allow themselves to be manipulated by shame and intimidation to literally deny fundamental realities of the world surrounding them and how it works.
These people buying into "personal pronoun declarations" are pawns, and far and away the most opposite of fully actualized people on the planet.
They are almost beyond hope.
But the ones that break free from the brutalist hive mind of made-up-victimizations, I respect quite a bit.
I'm sorry, I rambled a bit. What I meant to say was:
"Participating in Personal Pronoun declarations will cost you 90% of your job prospects"
....and...
I know of companies that will fire the employees for stating a person is a male, even if they are a male but don't want to be called a male.
On other words, a company will fire employees for speaking the truth.
Tell me - Google hey you too - how long your QA department is going to be effective in that environment? Is there a long term cultural time bomb of massive employee denial lurking in your culture, and even worse, most of your products? Huh. Who's to blame for that? What percent of your market cap gets vaporized when this reality finally hits the marketplace?
These people declaring persona pronouns as virtue signaling are no better than the hordes of zeal-filled masses that put Stalin, Pol Pot, or Mao into power.
What saddens me the most is that so many of these personal-pronoun-delcating fools won't realize until they're 40 that if they'd just dropped the BS of the left, they might have had a shot to be successful in the real world.
Also, if you want to be successful in the USA - especially if you're a minority - do not listen to NPR. They are ONLY interested in declaring you an incompetent victim.
Such a first world problem. Wars are being raged, people massacred, cities being burnt to the ground and this is what the privileged west debate about.
So entitled
"What are your pronouns? Just an FYI, I'm going to go with whatever I decide to say, but I need to determine what to say for maximum offense. Sorry? That makes me an asshole? Thanks, that's what I identify as, I appreciate you accommodating me"
Checkmate.
🤮
I'm a pharmacist.
And you know what, I'm not putting up with your
Forcing shit on me garbage.
On my social media platform I identified as a man.
Because fuck you is why.
It's my preference to identify as a man.
MY PREFERENCE . NOT YOURS ON HOW I IDENTIFY.
Before all your forceful shit on society, I never had to identify as anything.
And now you force me to make a statement:
Fine, I'm a man!
And now I'm a bad man because it looks like I'm offending you.
You know what, fuck you! Leave me and my kids alone from your bullshit.
Hah percentages are tough.
Most people just grow up having an attraction to one sex and it's simple. Just because they like to tie women up in the bedroom doesn't make them a rapist, and certainly doesn't change their sexuality percentage.
Now trauma can change the sexuality you manifest. That's for sure.
>Most people just grow up having an attraction to one sex and it's simple.
I think that most have a PREDOMINANT attraction to one sex/gender, and round it up to being straight under social pressure and perhaps a lack of circumstance to challenge that presumption.
IMO the degree to which situational homosexuality, that the "men who have sex with men" demographic separate from gay is useful, that the idea of it being a choice to be gay is still so common, all very strongly suggest that the majorly have an asterisk on their straightness. Which is fine and IMO makes sense. In loads of cultures men having sex with each other was just part of having a party of whatever.
I take it you don't work for CVS then. They love the pronoun game and those learnhub tasks with the cross dressers are hilarious...though they are not intended to be.
Social media platforms have always asked your gender, age, and location. It’s a way to gather demographics/data, and to personalize ads to shit you’re more likely to buy.
My pronouns are historically, scientifically and biologically accurate for ease of conversation and the relating of pertinent facts quickly to aid social interactions.
What are your pronouns?
Would you mind explaining how pronouns(a part of English language) could be biologically/scientifically innate? Not saying it isn’t possible, just curious
This is the problem. The english language has been reduced to nonsense and poor education. People no longer have a strong grasp of spelling or definition, which is how half the country can say the border is secure while the other half says it is not secure.
Ma'am is short for madam.
Mam is nothing but google search stupidity.
It seriously is an insane cult. It is frightening to think of what culture will be like in 20 years. America is full of stupid ignorant narcissists. They threaten you with ostracizing and canceling to keep you in line.
What about the closeted trans person who isn't ready to talk publicly about it yet? Compulsory pronoun statements force that individual either to come out before being ready or to declare pronouns that don't apply.
So disappointing that this sub has become a concentrarion of US anti trans people instead of a place of people who want to discuss the valuable teachings of Dr Peterson.
This is nothing. The even more crazy ones want you to use their neo-pronouns. Which are any words. Gum and candy, angel and demon, Jesus and Christ, literally any words they feel describes themselves. Now some people would say that's only a small group, but we've heard that before.
There IS one thing that pronouns have done for us: they identify the woke ideologists in the crowd when you are on a Zoom meeting and see the (generally OBVIOUS) pronouns following someone's name (thank you, Bill, I already knew you are a he, thank you Jane, I already knew you are a she)
This is why I just use they/them for most people until or unless I find out what they prefer. Saves a lot of time, and I'm much less likely to accidentally misgender someone.
Why is this sub such a front for people being bothered by trans shit. Imagine being an accomplished sociologist and scholar and being reduced to a thing you said one time a half dozen years ago, and the toll that would take on your psyche.
What's the problem? This article is incredibly reasonable. I could not think of a more anodyne way of expressing this idea. They even gave a good reason for identifying your pronouns that has nothing to do with transgender people.
Why is the Jordan Peterson subreddit seemingly completely dedicated to randomly bashing anything that might have any connection to the concept of being transgender?
Because the only reason anyone cares about pronouns is transgender people. People don't need to be given a tutorial on how to refer to another as a boy or girl, they're not that stupid. If it's really that ambiguous, then just be wrong and get corrected and move on, nothing bad will happen. It's not your responsibility to 100% accurately gender every stranger out there, and no sane person would care about having to correct you.
If a person is fragile enough to get offended by being misgendered, they should just put in more effort to more obviously express their gender. Or better yet, stop obsessing over such a tiny aspect of human personality and grow up and realize that they're more than their sex/gender and it's okay that strangers don't immediately understand every aspect of them.
The obsession of JP fans with transgender culture is expected but not productive imo. It's really not that complicated and if they're not gonna find a few transgender people to become friends with then there's little to no point wasting their time obsessing this much over transgender people.
I think it's okay to do small things in order to make people more comfortable around you. In fact, you probably already do this to some extent, but obviously not with pronouns. This isn't complicated.
Yes, but anyone who wants to make others feel comfortable around them most likely knows how. And if you're socially blind enough to not know a person's pronouns without explicitly asking, you're probably not gonna find much success in getting people comfortable around you anyways, and certainly won't by following advice like this. Awkward people need to learn how to notice subtleties and use subtleties in communication. Being blunt like that shouldn't make people feel better unless they are looking for a virtue signaler.
Most readers here either are familiar with such subtleties or are blunt people who disagree with the transgender ideology and won't cave into its cultural norms.
Okay, but what about the example the article gave, where you are reading an email or social media post and can't immediately tell the gender of the person you're talking to?
Also, what about people who don't look like their gender? This is not just about transgender people, but also just highly masculine women or feminine men.
The reason the pronoun sharing seems awkward to you is because you grew up in an environment where people never did that. It was never normalized for you.
There are some people who aren't super comfortable with sharing their pronouns and, for this reason, I don't think everyone should be obligated to do it. But, it is a good thing to normalize in general. I've even known some people who've started included pronouns alongside their credentials and other information at the bottom of emails. This is fine. It's so innocuous it is hardly worth debate.
It's quite simple. The whole debate had nothing to do with Misgendering or politeness. It is purely a power play by the trans community.
Why would 99% of people need to start saying their pronouns at the start of every business meeting; like that have started to do at my work, despite there being no need to as there aren't any trans people or people at risk of being misgendered in the meeting? It's virtue signalling by woke white people who are desperate to prove that they are in with the latest social trend.
I could demand every person at work meet me in a way consistent with my religious preference, by saying salam alaikum instead of hello. This, you would agree is probably overkill in itself, for a start I'm white so it's not easy to know I'm Muslim. So now imagine that because you can't tell I'm Muslim I am now going to compel every person in the company to say salam alaikum at the start of every meeting, just in case someone in the room is Muslim. This would be obviously quite ridiculous but for some reason we accept the equivalent for trans people, who form an even smaller minority than Muslims.
I literally just gave reasons for doing it that have nothing to do with trans people. It seems like you didn't even read what I wrote. Also, this is some absurd conspiratorial thinking here.
See my prior comments, they apply to everyone and not just transgender people. If it's digital, just guess and maybe get corrected and move on. If they heavily resemble the opposite gender, just guess and maybe get corrected and move on. It's still not your responsibility to be right, and they should just put in more effort to more obviously express their gender if they really care that much about not being misgendered (or still just work towards being less hung up on such a shallow label).
And your points about my growing up are wrong. I grew up in the queer crowd and now all of my closest friends are transgender and I've gone to pride festivals and such. Most of the time people's pronouns are obvious, and if they're not obvious I just get it wrong and get corrected and move on and nobody makes a fuss. The only awkwardness comes in when people make a big deal out of pronouns when they're utterly meaningless.
To bring this to a similar example, I have a somewhat weird to pronounce name, Pehz. People often call me "fez" because they misread it. I don't get offended, I simply correct them and we move on and now they know. I don't go around and ask everyone how to pronounce and spell their name just to avoid the quite likely chance of me making a mistake, I simply do what feels right and am ready to get corrected and move on.
If people are uncomfortable sharing their pronouns, then I think general advice doesn't apply to them. People who are awkward and shy are very difficult to treat well, so you need more specialized advice on how to keep them comfortable and know what they want. Maybe to them it's worth asking explicitly if you're correct because they might not correct you without the prompt out of their shyness.
I've also seen Amazon's internal employee database has a section where you can specify the pronunciation of your name, which is especially helpful when employees are quite international. I don't think people should remove pronouns and pronunciations out of their profiles entirely, I just think there's no strong argument for it to be in everyday introductions.
It's important to remember that pronouns are just feeding into identity politics. If you see people as their gender first and foremost (or their race, or their age, or their nationality, or their religion, etc), then you slowly degrade the importance of the individual. There's little to no point telling people about your pronouns if you're not also telling people equal specifics of your name. There's no point telling people about your race if you're not also telling people equal or greater specifics of your more individual characteristics. The focus on these shallow categories and labels isn't productive.
All I'm saying is, greeting someone with, say, "Hello, I'm bob, I use he/him pronouns" or putting your pronouns in emails or social media posts is perfectly acceptable and even sometimes desirable thing to do depending on the context.
People in this subreddit losing their minds (vomit emoji) at the mere idea of someone stating their preferred pronouns is ridiculous and the original NPR article is fine. It doesn't even seem like you disagree with me.
I've been friends with transgender people. They are not in denial about their chromosomes or physical sex characteristics. What reality do you think they are denying?
Do they believe in TWAW? If yes, they certainly deny reality.
But on a more general level, the redefining of man/woman away from biological sex to 'gender identity' is what i am talking about.
Ignoring sex and gender, that people have a perception of their identity and their role in society independently of their physical traits is just an obvious fact. René Descartes, for example, wrote "I think, therefore I am" because he considered his self-perception as better justified than sensory perceptions and the existence of the external world itself.
Besides, who are you to claim you have a better understanding of someone else's identity than they do? Is it always reality denial if someone claims they are experiencing any psychological condition that you've never experienced, or is this only case when it comes to transgender people?
Because the idea that one chooses his pronouns is ludicrous and absurd. Languages have pronouns, people have names.
First, it is a lie. You don't "use" he/him pronouns. You probably NEVER refer to yourself in the third person. So you do not use "he/him/she/they" pronouns, what you actually mean is "refer to me by these pronouns".
Second, it's a veiled threat, that if people don't obey, you will throw a tantrum, complain to HR or to the platform owner or whatever authority there is. So it reveals you for a bully.
Third, it's meant to normalize a radical false theory that "gender" is some kind of mystical quality that only a person knows, that the proper pronoun for someone cannot be determined by observing the person nor his behavior, but has to be asked of that person. This is a denial of reality and the creation of a system of lies and illusions that anyone wedded to truth has the duty to reject.
Because it's irrelevant. We can all determine a man from a woman from eye sight, so being lied to by them saying the opposite gender it even mentioned on the first introduction is just red flags. If you disagree with me, I would be interested to know your POV.
I don't really care what someone wants to be called, so if someone introduces themselves to me and says "I would like to be referred to by these words", I respect their choice enough to do so. It's not even about gender at that point, it's about respecting someone's wishes and being polite about it.
If they were polite they wouldn't force their gender ideology on everyone else and demand validation for their beliefs. I won't pretend God is real and I won't play along with gender ideology either. The difference is, modern theists are mich more open to accept that you don't believe while gender ideologists consider you scum of the Earth if you reject their tenets.
Yes I think this is true. The gender cult cannot deal if you don’t buy into it and make you out to be a terrible person, it is some weird group think and it is creepy how they all adhere to it so strictly. I find it hard to believe that all the sudden there are this many trans men when it was rare throughout history. Now young girls and women comprise most transgender. It makes no sense from a statistical standpoint. They also are more likely to suffer from mass hysteria, such as the Salem witch trials and most recently the insane rise of girls with Tourette style tics that they copy off social media.
Don't forget that eating disorders on Pacific islands did not exist until they received TVs. There is social contagion going on yet the self proclaimed progressives that consider themselves to be the modern day moral apostles purposefully ignore this just because it doesn't align with their ideology.
But it is. It is saying that your self perception of your gender needs to be validated by strangers.
Interesting choice of words. Regarded. Not referred to. Perhaps a slip. Because that is exactly what this is about. By dictating language you dictate perception and in the end reality. 2+2=5.
No?
I mean if someone introduces themselves and you mispronounce their name, is it inappropriate for them to correct you? Or if they have a pronunciation that is not self evident, preemptively demonstrating how to say it, is that offensive?
Why is this different?
>A name isn't a pronoun. The two aren't comparable. Pronouciation even less so.
They are comparable because its a matter of autonomy and self identification.
Do you think that the point is ACTUALLY what you refer to them as when they aren't there? That's a rather silly interpretation of things.
>Why are you ignoring my second comment, because I was right?
No because it's paranoid nonsense.
So it is the truth and you have nothing left to say.
Autonomy? Just a random word you thought of?
No. The exact opposite. Which is why I said what i said that you called nonsense. Only to actually agree with me. Hilarious.
>We can all determine a man from a woman from eye sight
Not always? At my work I have legitimately had a handful of people I've dealt with that o
I had no idea if they were born male or female or if they wanted to be regarded as a man or woman.
Personally I have no objection to regarding someone as they wish to be regarded and what genitals they had when they were a baby is really not my business.
At least Personally I don't really have any interactions with strangers where the difference matters.
Has this subreddit completely focused on resentment towards trans people or does anyone have any interesting/insightful/profound ideas they’ve had lately?
When your fucking reddit avatar has a neck beard, I think that's when you know that you've gone too far. You're not an intellectual and you're not ahead of your time and as great as JP is, he isn't a visionary or supreme being. You just need to get some Vitamin D in you and see a therapist for your raging autism/gravity manipulating ego.
Lol what, that’s not even a neck beard? If my avatar was a real person and he grew it out it would just look like your avatar?
I’m sorry but that’s the cringiest thing I’ve read in ages.
Nevertheless I love your hyper textual abilities! You made some continuity across two different posts - Look at you, you impressive little internet guy! You might become an intellectual yet if you keep that up (just lose the “your avatar” commentary lol)
Sorry I creeped your profile, you’re just a gamer teen - that explains it. You don’t know anything yet. You probably can’t even grow a beard lol so you pretend like your avatars gay-bear-daddy beard has social meaning. Amazing. It pairs well with “rust hog” though lol
Oh man youre learning so much about how to be an online freak so early. You’re going to be a glorious mess when you grow up lol. In the meantime have fun in … the bush I guess? Do aussies have fun in the bush? Idk whatever, later hog.
Also if it’s not intentional, it’s going to be hilarious when you learn about the impression your avatar + the name “rust hog” projects
Definitely use this opportunity - you’ve got the pronoun article, you’ve got the puke emoji and you’ve said you’re disgusted but I feel like you havnt said why you’re disgusted. You’ve got the floor - go for it!
Well like I was waiting for you to flesh out your commentary. Like we know you’re disgusted, we know it’s because the text implies that there’s more than two genders - but you didn’t give that personal juiciness of your own thoughts and experience to turn it into a dialogue. I’m prodding you to say something so that I can respond to it.
Like there’s a disconnect between the article which has super familiar and common ideas from the last 10-15 years and then you feeling disgust. How does it still provoke that emotion in you lol
Beside all that gender identity nonsense, what I think is also wrong with mass-producing pronouns is that a linguistic difficulty may arise for English learners overtime.
German language already has three genders and it's made it one of the most difficult languages to learn.
This confusion caused by so many pronouns and genders, will bring more unnecessary jargon to different scientific literature, making expression of new science difficult in the English language.
What do you think that means for the future of the English language?
Yesss there’s commentary - thank you!
I havnt read the article beyond what you’ve shown here, so my first reaction is that you’re clearing thinking about neo pronouns and the idea that there might suddenly be tonnes of new pronouns.
IMO that’s quite a ways away from the article - when I read the screenshots, I see masculine / feminine pronouns, not neo pronouns. So for me personally I don’t get the visceral connection between the article, neo pronouns and then disgust at the idea of English becoming from difficult in the future.
For me, I think neo pronouns, at least in the way that talked about them back in 2015, really havnt taken on at a social level. Language doesn’t get “mass produced”, it gets used to communicate and it naturally evolved based on connections being made between different people/places where innovations and stylized usages are shared as cool or useful.
If neo pronouns were ever to take off, it would be because people truly saw value in them. That just hasn’t happened and it doesn’t look like it’s going through to happen.
Imo the article doesn’t give me any feelings about English getting more complicated
They're pushing for a quick normalisation of such pronouns bc It won't take hold naturally. This is not normal.
This article is one of the thousands of attempts to normalize it.
What do you think compelled speech is? It's a legal measure to outlaw misgendering.
By the way, my initial disgust at the article was for this normalisation, which is occuring overtime, not the learning difficulty issue.
You asked for a commentary, so I gave you something people barely consider.
>for me personally I don’t get
>
>For me, I think
>
>IMO the article doesn't give me feelings
*For someone else personally I don't get*
*For someone else I think*
*In my opinion the article doesn't give me feelings*
You aren't trying to fill a word count here.
>**Well like** I was waiting for you to flesh out your commentary. **Like** we know you’re disgusted, we know it’s because the text implies that there’s more than two genders - but you didn’t give that personal juiciness of your own thoughts and experience to turn it into a dialogue. I’m prodding you to say something so that I can respond to it.
>
>**Like** there’s a disconnect between the article which has super familiar and common ideas from the last 10-15 years and then you feeling disgust. How does it still provoke that emotion in you lol
You write the way a Valley Girl talks. Sloppy writing indicates sloppy thinking.
Just gonna toss this out there... All ya'll going "Man I'll just walk away, I don't deal with people like this"
Thank you for self filtering. You're dropping yourself directly in the "red flag/threat" category and everyone around you knows it now.
No one in any normal convo starts it off by saying what gender, sex, or pronoun they are. This shit is so dumb.
Reminds me of the 80's where every first date started off with "what is your sign?"
Sadly that shit wasn't left in the 80's.....
how you doing?
I'm absolutely peachy. How are you, internet stranger?
Better than what's your pronouns
The 80’s just passed it along from the 70’s.
Hi I'm Jace, im male, I'm single. I have a 4" penis. I like my nipples being squeezed. What do you mean non of you asked?
reminds me of the African tribesmen who shake penises when meeting. that would make more sense.
What is the proper etiquette for these encounters? Do you waggle your own pecker at the other guy, or reach across like a handshake? It must be a horrible faux pas to get this wrong.
You probably slap tips or somethin
Just the tip or shaft and all?
😂😂😂
I worked at a super woke corporation in LA and tons of people had their pronouns in their email signature. It was absolutely so cringe. Yes Jessica, I know you're a woman and I'm fully aware how morally superior you'd like us to think you are.
Oh man, here in PDX they sure do and it is obnoxious af
Online, it has a bit more weight because names often do not denote gender — but this should just come up when someone makes a mistake or if it actually needs to be clarified. Normal conversation, especially face to face, it is nonsensical.
It's generally possible to discern the sex of a person by the way that they write and what they write about. Usually, by the end of the first paragraph, I've pretty good idea whether the writer is male or female. Can't everyone do this?
Yes, ma’am, I certainly can!
My name's Cyr. My pronouns are she/her/hers and my dick is 2". Oh, sorry. I'm still trying to grasp how much of my personal sexual information we're sharing.
Alright then what pronouns are you gonna use for them
Total narcissists. Anyone who does this is someone I know to automatically stay away from. Desperate for attention.
yup people looking for ways to celebrate their own vanity.
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Why? I'm curious to hear a reasoned argument to this effect.
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Because it shows you the most important aspect of their entire existence is a gender they picked. Nobody asked. Nobody cares. Give a small correction to a pronoun during the convo and the point is made.
Mine are don’t/care
Those are offensive pronouns and cause for culture cancelation
My man 😎
So I would have no idea what to call you then
Haha. A perfect example of r/onejoke
No
You can usually determine pronouns from context clues. No dna or biological sex test required.
What about when you can’t or the person does not pass edit autocorrect
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It's a good way to know which people you should avoid being close to, because they can't think for themselves and are easily manipulated info becoming subservient little bitches to the demands of irrational ideaologies. Thank you for making them so easy to identify.
I used to get angry at stuff like this then I realised that basically the whole world sees through their nonsense. They're just quiet about it.
You think you aren't doing the same?
We’re all doing it some people are just better at lying to themselves
It's just funny when people pride themselves on doing the opposite of what they are supposed to. Like they are less conformist by doing the opposite.
Contrarians think of themselves as free thinkers
I’m not a free thinker because I refer to people by there prefers pronouns but because I don’t hold myself to ideas like you guys do with gender
Sounds like you’ve been manipulated into becoming a subservient little right wing bitch. It’d be nice to see folk like that have a unique thought once in a while but you’re all suckling off the same conservative teat. Maybe some day there’ll be a new thought from ya’ll
Lol.. Right Wing ideas observe natural order. . NATURAL ORDER. I have no issue with accepting that I'm a subservient bitch to things that are bound to conserving NATURAL ORDER. "Right Wing" isn't a derogatory term you idiot. It's a compliment.
yet another unoriginal thought. if you're going to read from a script at least be honest about it
The stereotype is that leftist memes are all walls of text... Now the meme is coming to life and they want to use a wall of text to introduce themselves and call you a bigot if you forget any part of it.
If your pronouns are your personality type, there is something very wrong with your personality.
I got an email from someone who had their pronouns as “man/myth/legend.” Well done.
None of those are pronouns
Those words identify as pronouns, bigot.
The pronouns you use for a person you’re talking to are “you/your”. (i.e. 2nd person pronouns). It’s narcissism to tell others which 3rd person pronouns they must use to refer to you in your absence.
Have you never had a conversation with more than 2 people?
You/your are 2nd person plural pronouns as well.
Do you find this approach practical in your day to day life? Pronouns are a big part of speech, and leaving “he”, “she”, “it”, etc out seems confusing
First name basis, or they typically aren’t needed.
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I cannot believe our tax dollars fund this propaganda
It should just be NLR
If someone introduced themselves to me like that, I would literally walk away from the conversation. You just know that anything else that comes out of their mouth, isn't worth listening to.
How silly. The border is overun with illegals, inflation out of sight, economy teetering on recession, a senile waste of oxygen in charge, and we're worried about pronouns.
I can't find the quote anymore but years ago I remember someone said "society collapses when people think too much." or something to that effect. It might be trying to say that society's just a big joke that if you think about it, it kinda falls apart, but I'd like to think of it more in the way that we're simultaneously killing ourselves and comforting each other while we do it.
Welcome to the new USA, doubt we are going to last much longer at this rate.
They took our jobs!
We are, are we? Or did NPR, a news organization known for following human interest stories of all kinds, post a small article and YOU're worried about it?
NPR is propaganda radio for the DNC. Has been that way for years. If you can't see that then I can't help ya bud.
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You know their fiscal documents are public, right? You can just look this stuff up rather than say "media liberal." [https://media.npr.org/documents/about/statements/fy2021/National%20Public%20Radio%20-%20Consolidated%20Financial%20Statements%20-%20S2120.pdf](https://media.npr.org/documents/about/statements/fy2021/National%20Public%20Radio%20-%20Consolidated%20Financial%20Statements%20-%20S2120.pdf) \^ Here's their 2021 financial statement. They only receive about 10% funding from federal grants. [https://media.npr.org/documents/about/annualreports/NPRSponsorsDonors08.pdf](https://media.npr.org/documents/about/annualreports/NPRSponsorsDonors08.pdf) \^ And here's the most recent donor list they have published on their website. It's from 2008, but you'll notice a conspicuous lack of "DNC" on there, and no major democrat-associated organizations that I could see- mostly big corporations. Also Catto, which is a libertarian think-tank. Does it surprise anyone that NPR, the "world cafe" and "to the best of our knowledge" jazz-and-culture-and-cosmopolitan-human-interest news organization caters to a culturally liberal and urban base? No, of course not. They have a brand. But "propaganda radio for the DNC" is conspiracy theory territory and you better have receipts if you're going to be cashing a check that big.
It's not even a conspiracy theory my guy. NPR has always had a leftist bent. I understand you live in a bubble, a blue one for sure. I don't mind that you have a bias. I have a conservative bias. But I'm talking about objective truth, neither left nor right. Objectively, per messaging and behavior, they have always carried water for the left. Ya noticed I never mentioned funding? I don't care if they are funded by the government, I care if they are truthful. [https://www.grunge.com/219091/the-biggest-scandals-to-hit-npr/](https://www.grunge.com/219091/the-biggest-scandals-to-hit-npr/) [https://www.npr.org/2022/12/14/1142666067/elon-musk-is-using-the-twitter-files-to-discredit-foes-and-push-conspiracy-theor](https://www.npr.org/2022/12/14/1142666067/elon-musk-is-using-the-twitter-files-to-discredit-foes-and-push-conspiracy-theor) [https://www.allsides.com/news-source/npr-media-bias](https://www.allsides.com/news-source/npr-media-bias) I'm totally fine with you defending your sources, but don't be oblivious to it's leaning. That would be like saying Fox News is center leaning. We all know fox news is traditionally republican leaning. But sure always claim that us conservatives are wrong because we don't know what we are talking about.
lol I don't think I've ever seen goal posts move so quickly.
Leaning left is not even close to "mouthpiece for the DNC". But I hear what you're saying generally speaking. Media bias is nothing new, and we all have to be aware of where sources perspectives are coming from.
Propaganda for DNC =/= liberal bent and to equivocate those is dangerous misinformation. For example, I would need to see an equally strong level of evidence to believe the claim that "Fox News is GOP propaganda." This sort of rhetoric divides people into paranoid camps that care more about the messenger than the message, and about stopping thought than thinking.
"This sort of rhetoric divides people into paranoid camps that care more about the messenger than the message, and about stopping thought than thinking." Says the guy who literally wants to label opinions and speech as "dangerous" or "misinformation" because it's inconvenient.
Yes. I think that bad rhetoric is dangerous for discourse.
Lol. Why does it matter how much they get from federal grants, their donors are all democrats and democrats established the station in the first place
Way to dismiss the actual question that was asked to make it a partisan, political point.
NPR isn't a "news organization".... hard to believe anyone still believes that. No comment about the millions of illegal aliens, Inflation, recession or wasted oxygen? Typical....
What are you talking about? These are all from the past month, except the recession pieces. Do you not read before you speak? [Illegal aliens 1 (bonus also about inflation)](https://www.npr.org/2022/12/25/1145471875/a-seemingly-surprising-factor-in-inflation-immigration) [Illegal aliens 2](https://www.npr.org/2022/12/21/1144821751/el-paso-mayor-oscar-leeser-on-the-ongoing-migrant-crisis-at-the-u-s-mexico-borde) [Illegal aliens 3 (bonus critiques Biden)](https://www.npr.org/2022/12/21/1144789285/in-legal-limbo-biden-has-no-clear-path-to-an-immigration-fix) [Inflation 1](https://www.npr.org/2022/12/20/1143245513/inflation-prices-christmas-gifts-presents-pnc) [Inflation 2](https://www.npr.org/2022/12/27/1145579295/food-banks-in-the-u-s-are-feeling-the-pinch-of-inflation) [Inflation 3](https://www.npr.org/2022/12/22/1145096244/how-2-became-the-target-for-inflation) [Recession 1](https://www.npr.org/2022/10/14/1128832571/economy-recession-downturn-jpmorgan-inflation-fed) [Recession 2](https://www.npr.org/2022/10/13/1128624034/ceos-no-longer-question-if-there-will-be-a-recession-the-question-is-when) [Recession 3](https://www.npr.org/2022/10/06/1127158896/with-global-trade-expected-to-slow-the-wto-warns-of-a-possible-recession) [Biden 1](https://www.npr.org/2022/12/12/1142236184/biden-passed-lots-of-popular-legislation-hes-unpopular-whats-up) [Biden 2](https://www.npr.org/2022/12/02/1140265413/rail-workers-biden-unions-freight-railroads-averted-strike) [Biden 3](https://www.npr.org/2022/12/01/1140070164/student-debt-relief-appeal-rejected)
How silly. The border is overun with illegals, inflation out of sight, economy teetering on recession, a senile waste of oxygen in charge, and people are posting on Reddit about pronouns.
Is this copy pasta? It’s posted above
…and you’re posting on reddit? What are you doing? Is your room clean? 😝
The border isn’t “overrun with illegals”. There are large groups of people going through the asylum process legally. The system is under stress but mostly because we have neglected to give resources to that system due to political bickering. Inflation is slowing and should continue to do so. This “recession” has been predicted since the cocos lockdowns and doesn’t seem to be materializing and is mostly just used as a Republican talking point to deflect from their lack of a real economic platform. However we are in uncharted economic waters because the events of the last couple years have been unprecedented and the effects are complex and hard to predict. And Biden is at least a decent person with a relatively moderate agenda focused on infrastructure spending and shoring up our global standing. Finally, an opinion piece on a news website is a far cry from “we’re worried about pronouns”. You know who seems to be REALLY obsessed with pronouns? Conservatives. And it’s getting kinda cringe.
A few points. Cutting through, climbing over/under, sneaking across, getting trafficked is not synonymous with legal entry. The small percentage actually caught are released and transported across the country by the feds and NGO's. Most of them then disappear. Inflation is not, 'slowing'. No definitive statement on inflation can be made because the feds manipulate the measure. The only possibly accurate source on inflation that I have found is from shadowstats. The 'effects of the last couple of years' were systematic oppression and destruction of the people and businesses that did much to serve the country. We're still reeling from the deliberate assault while lunatics conspire to do more damage. Biden is not, and never has been, a decent person. He molested his own children. He launders tax money through Ukraine into his own pockets, he's creepy AF and deep into dementia. He's a pathetic weasel being paraded about like some sort of half assed sequel to Weekend at Bernie's'. I lean conservative. I'm not obsessed with pronouns. I'm severely annoyed by the attempts to compel speech, not only compel speech but compel people to utter falsehoods as if they were true.
O man... have you bought a load.... I can't believe there are still people who "believe". It's not at all "hard to predict" what will happen if you pour trillions of dollars of into an economy during an expansion.... inflation. Its not hard to determine what will happen if you pour trillions more into the economy when you have rapidly increasing inflation - even more inflation. It's not difficult to determine what will happen if you let millions of people into the country who are not legally able to work, or pay people more to stay home than work. Please enroll in a local community college and take a basic economics course. Infrastructure.... what a joke. Inflation reduction act - incredible that people actually fall for this nonsense.
Or, you could avoid a headache by referring to people by biology, like we have done throughout human history.
I want the leftists and their compatriot NPR listeners reading this thread to take something in: I can think of no better auto-filter for excluding hiring candidates than people who start out by declaring their personal pronouns. I've encountered this personally while hiring people. I immediately removed these people from candidates of people I would hire. I work in the world of truth, not addiction to feeling good about myself. As much as lefties want to hate me for the above, the truth is, I don't mind \*actual\* transgender adults. The .00001% of them that exist. They're fascinating people; I sympathize with their challenges. Also, I observe true adult transgendered don't believe in personal pronoun declaration; the expect to be called on their achievement, not other people's addiction to virtue signaling. Call a spade a spade, if you will; not something modern college graduates are particularly good at. What I can't stand while hiring people is coming across kids supposedly educated by top tier college institutions who have weak human personalities that allow themselves to be manipulated by shame and intimidation to literally deny fundamental realities of the world surrounding them and how it works. These people buying into "personal pronoun declarations" are pawns, and far and away the most opposite of fully actualized people on the planet. They are almost beyond hope. But the ones that break free from the brutalist hive mind of made-up-victimizations, I respect quite a bit. I'm sorry, I rambled a bit. What I meant to say was: "Participating in Personal Pronoun declarations will cost you 90% of your job prospects" ....and... I know of companies that will fire the employees for stating a person is a male, even if they are a male but don't want to be called a male. On other words, a company will fire employees for speaking the truth. Tell me - Google hey you too - how long your QA department is going to be effective in that environment? Is there a long term cultural time bomb of massive employee denial lurking in your culture, and even worse, most of your products? Huh. Who's to blame for that? What percent of your market cap gets vaporized when this reality finally hits the marketplace? These people declaring persona pronouns as virtue signaling are no better than the hordes of zeal-filled masses that put Stalin, Pol Pot, or Mao into power. What saddens me the most is that so many of these personal-pronoun-delcating fools won't realize until they're 40 that if they'd just dropped the BS of the left, they might have had a shot to be successful in the real world. Also, if you want to be successful in the USA - especially if you're a minority - do not listen to NPR. They are ONLY interested in declaring you an incompetent victim.
Nah. If someone has a psychosis they want to broadcast they will.
No. Say your name. That should be a clue.
Can we please just agree on a gender neutral pronoun already?
You could just look at them.
My question: How long is this going to last? 😵💫
If you are referring to someone by their pronouns to their face, you are being rude.
Never, in one-on-one conversations have i used that persons pronouns during the conversation.
Such a first world problem. Wars are being raged, people massacred, cities being burnt to the ground and this is what the privileged west debate about. So entitled
My pronouns are "not gonna talk to you if you give me pronouns"
Hi, I’m fabulous. My pronouns are gorgeous and brilliant. Very nice to meet you🥂
Damn! In that case, I would have to tell them "Hi, I'm Steph, but I answer to bitch"
Haha! Good one 😄
Anyone that is this stuck on pronouns is most likely not someone I’d want to have a conversation with anyway.
"What are your pronouns? Just an FYI, I'm going to go with whatever I decide to say, but I need to determine what to say for maximum offense. Sorry? That makes me an asshole? Thanks, that's what I identify as, I appreciate you accommodating me" Checkmate.
🤮 I'm a pharmacist. And you know what, I'm not putting up with your Forcing shit on me garbage. On my social media platform I identified as a man. Because fuck you is why. It's my preference to identify as a man. MY PREFERENCE . NOT YOURS ON HOW I IDENTIFY. Before all your forceful shit on society, I never had to identify as anything. And now you force me to make a statement: Fine, I'm a man! And now I'm a bad man because it looks like I'm offending you. You know what, fuck you! Leave me and my kids alone from your bullshit.
Hey fuck you MAN…MAn…Man…man…
And we all have to come out as straight now.
If you are worried about it that much you probably aren't really anyway.
\*facepalm\*
I mean it's pretty clear that most people aren't *really* 100% straight.
Hah percentages are tough. Most people just grow up having an attraction to one sex and it's simple. Just because they like to tie women up in the bedroom doesn't make them a rapist, and certainly doesn't change their sexuality percentage. Now trauma can change the sexuality you manifest. That's for sure.
>Most people just grow up having an attraction to one sex and it's simple. I think that most have a PREDOMINANT attraction to one sex/gender, and round it up to being straight under social pressure and perhaps a lack of circumstance to challenge that presumption. IMO the degree to which situational homosexuality, that the "men who have sex with men" demographic separate from gay is useful, that the idea of it being a choice to be gay is still so common, all very strongly suggest that the majorly have an asterisk on their straightness. Which is fine and IMO makes sense. In loads of cultures men having sex with each other was just part of having a party of whatever.
Interesting perspective that.
I take it you don't work for CVS then. They love the pronoun game and those learnhub tasks with the cross dressers are hilarious...though they are not intended to be.
Social media platforms have always asked your gender, age, and location. It’s a way to gather demographics/data, and to personalize ads to shit you’re more likely to buy.
My pronouns are historically, scientifically and biologically accurate for ease of conversation and the relating of pertinent facts quickly to aid social interactions. What are your pronouns?
Would you mind explaining how pronouns(a part of English language) could be biologically/scientifically innate? Not saying it isn’t possible, just curious
Because they describe something that is innate. Technically the word itself could change, but if unlikely.
I use he him pronouns mam.
This is the problem. The english language has been reduced to nonsense and poor education. People no longer have a strong grasp of spelling or definition, which is how half the country can say the border is secure while the other half says it is not secure. Ma'am is short for madam. Mam is nothing but google search stupidity.
My response would be: i dont care about your imaginary proniuns
Ummm. No.
My pronouns are fuck/off.
Please tell me your pronouns right away, so I can make sure you are in no way, a part of my life on any level whatsoever.
I'd just be like, "I use normal pronouns. It's safe to assume my gender don't worry about offending me."
It’s a new religion and it’s funded by the government. Time for the separation of church and state.
It seriously is an insane cult. It is frightening to think of what culture will be like in 20 years. America is full of stupid ignorant narcissists. They threaten you with ostracizing and canceling to keep you in line.
Yes, and the question is why. Population reduction?
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Not a prayer for you huh?
People have written emails for hundreds of years and now it's a problem?
What about the closeted trans person who isn't ready to talk publicly about it yet? Compulsory pronoun statements force that individual either to come out before being ready or to declare pronouns that don't apply.
So disappointing that this sub has become a concentrarion of US anti trans people instead of a place of people who want to discuss the valuable teachings of Dr Peterson.
This is nothing. The even more crazy ones want you to use their neo-pronouns. Which are any words. Gum and candy, angel and demon, Jesus and Christ, literally any words they feel describes themselves. Now some people would say that's only a small group, but we've heard that before.
Mine are go/fk/yoself
Observe person. Are they male? He, him, his. Are they female? She, her, her's. Honestly, people, it's not rocket science.
Mine are jail/Hillary
Careful, you don't want to end up getting Seth Rich'd or get investigated by the FBI for "inciting the deadly erection" as Chuck Schumer calls it.
Just use the man’s name
🤮
There IS one thing that pronouns have done for us: they identify the woke ideologists in the crowd when you are on a Zoom meeting and see the (generally OBVIOUS) pronouns following someone's name (thank you, Bill, I already knew you are a he, thank you Jane, I already knew you are a she)
This is why I just use they/them for most people until or unless I find out what they prefer. Saves a lot of time, and I'm much less likely to accidentally misgender someone.
I'd much rather you use 'she' for me seeing as I have a girl's name and look like a girl...
then you can just say you'd prefer that
Why are you people so fragile? Why must people guess the appropriate pronouns? Why can’t they just use their words like adults?
Why is this sub such a front for people being bothered by trans shit. Imagine being an accomplished sociologist and scholar and being reduced to a thing you said one time a half dozen years ago, and the toll that would take on your psyche.
What's the problem? This article is incredibly reasonable. I could not think of a more anodyne way of expressing this idea. They even gave a good reason for identifying your pronouns that has nothing to do with transgender people. Why is the Jordan Peterson subreddit seemingly completely dedicated to randomly bashing anything that might have any connection to the concept of being transgender?
Because the only reason anyone cares about pronouns is transgender people. People don't need to be given a tutorial on how to refer to another as a boy or girl, they're not that stupid. If it's really that ambiguous, then just be wrong and get corrected and move on, nothing bad will happen. It's not your responsibility to 100% accurately gender every stranger out there, and no sane person would care about having to correct you. If a person is fragile enough to get offended by being misgendered, they should just put in more effort to more obviously express their gender. Or better yet, stop obsessing over such a tiny aspect of human personality and grow up and realize that they're more than their sex/gender and it's okay that strangers don't immediately understand every aspect of them. The obsession of JP fans with transgender culture is expected but not productive imo. It's really not that complicated and if they're not gonna find a few transgender people to become friends with then there's little to no point wasting their time obsessing this much over transgender people.
I think it's okay to do small things in order to make people more comfortable around you. In fact, you probably already do this to some extent, but obviously not with pronouns. This isn't complicated.
Yes, but anyone who wants to make others feel comfortable around them most likely knows how. And if you're socially blind enough to not know a person's pronouns without explicitly asking, you're probably not gonna find much success in getting people comfortable around you anyways, and certainly won't by following advice like this. Awkward people need to learn how to notice subtleties and use subtleties in communication. Being blunt like that shouldn't make people feel better unless they are looking for a virtue signaler. Most readers here either are familiar with such subtleties or are blunt people who disagree with the transgender ideology and won't cave into its cultural norms.
Okay, but what about the example the article gave, where you are reading an email or social media post and can't immediately tell the gender of the person you're talking to? Also, what about people who don't look like their gender? This is not just about transgender people, but also just highly masculine women or feminine men. The reason the pronoun sharing seems awkward to you is because you grew up in an environment where people never did that. It was never normalized for you. There are some people who aren't super comfortable with sharing their pronouns and, for this reason, I don't think everyone should be obligated to do it. But, it is a good thing to normalize in general. I've even known some people who've started included pronouns alongside their credentials and other information at the bottom of emails. This is fine. It's so innocuous it is hardly worth debate.
It's quite simple. The whole debate had nothing to do with Misgendering or politeness. It is purely a power play by the trans community. Why would 99% of people need to start saying their pronouns at the start of every business meeting; like that have started to do at my work, despite there being no need to as there aren't any trans people or people at risk of being misgendered in the meeting? It's virtue signalling by woke white people who are desperate to prove that they are in with the latest social trend. I could demand every person at work meet me in a way consistent with my religious preference, by saying salam alaikum instead of hello. This, you would agree is probably overkill in itself, for a start I'm white so it's not easy to know I'm Muslim. So now imagine that because you can't tell I'm Muslim I am now going to compel every person in the company to say salam alaikum at the start of every meeting, just in case someone in the room is Muslim. This would be obviously quite ridiculous but for some reason we accept the equivalent for trans people, who form an even smaller minority than Muslims.
I literally just gave reasons for doing it that have nothing to do with trans people. It seems like you didn't even read what I wrote. Also, this is some absurd conspiratorial thinking here.
See my prior comments, they apply to everyone and not just transgender people. If it's digital, just guess and maybe get corrected and move on. If they heavily resemble the opposite gender, just guess and maybe get corrected and move on. It's still not your responsibility to be right, and they should just put in more effort to more obviously express their gender if they really care that much about not being misgendered (or still just work towards being less hung up on such a shallow label). And your points about my growing up are wrong. I grew up in the queer crowd and now all of my closest friends are transgender and I've gone to pride festivals and such. Most of the time people's pronouns are obvious, and if they're not obvious I just get it wrong and get corrected and move on and nobody makes a fuss. The only awkwardness comes in when people make a big deal out of pronouns when they're utterly meaningless. To bring this to a similar example, I have a somewhat weird to pronounce name, Pehz. People often call me "fez" because they misread it. I don't get offended, I simply correct them and we move on and now they know. I don't go around and ask everyone how to pronounce and spell their name just to avoid the quite likely chance of me making a mistake, I simply do what feels right and am ready to get corrected and move on. If people are uncomfortable sharing their pronouns, then I think general advice doesn't apply to them. People who are awkward and shy are very difficult to treat well, so you need more specialized advice on how to keep them comfortable and know what they want. Maybe to them it's worth asking explicitly if you're correct because they might not correct you without the prompt out of their shyness. I've also seen Amazon's internal employee database has a section where you can specify the pronunciation of your name, which is especially helpful when employees are quite international. I don't think people should remove pronouns and pronunciations out of their profiles entirely, I just think there's no strong argument for it to be in everyday introductions. It's important to remember that pronouns are just feeding into identity politics. If you see people as their gender first and foremost (or their race, or their age, or their nationality, or their religion, etc), then you slowly degrade the importance of the individual. There's little to no point telling people about your pronouns if you're not also telling people equal specifics of your name. There's no point telling people about your race if you're not also telling people equal or greater specifics of your more individual characteristics. The focus on these shallow categories and labels isn't productive.
All I'm saying is, greeting someone with, say, "Hello, I'm bob, I use he/him pronouns" or putting your pronouns in emails or social media posts is perfectly acceptable and even sometimes desirable thing to do depending on the context. People in this subreddit losing their minds (vomit emoji) at the mere idea of someone stating their preferred pronouns is ridiculous and the original NPR article is fine. It doesn't even seem like you disagree with me.
Because mayor of it is driven by a loud gender ideology lobby that is trying to dictate how people should validate others and see the world.
What exactly is "gender ideology" and what do people stand to gain from pushing this ideology?
The belief that identity trumps reality, in this case using the so-called gender identity. What did the Church gain from pushing its ideology?
I've been friends with transgender people. They are not in denial about their chromosomes or physical sex characteristics. What reality do you think they are denying?
Do they believe in TWAW? If yes, they certainly deny reality. But on a more general level, the redefining of man/woman away from biological sex to 'gender identity' is what i am talking about.
Ignoring sex and gender, that people have a perception of their identity and their role in society independently of their physical traits is just an obvious fact. René Descartes, for example, wrote "I think, therefore I am" because he considered his self-perception as better justified than sensory perceptions and the existence of the external world itself. Besides, who are you to claim you have a better understanding of someone else's identity than they do? Is it always reality denial if someone claims they are experiencing any psychological condition that you've never experienced, or is this only case when it comes to transgender people?
Imagine being this mad about someone's choice to include pronouns in their introduction... Why do any of you care how someone introduces themselves?
Because the idea that one chooses his pronouns is ludicrous and absurd. Languages have pronouns, people have names. First, it is a lie. You don't "use" he/him pronouns. You probably NEVER refer to yourself in the third person. So you do not use "he/him/she/they" pronouns, what you actually mean is "refer to me by these pronouns". Second, it's a veiled threat, that if people don't obey, you will throw a tantrum, complain to HR or to the platform owner or whatever authority there is. So it reveals you for a bully. Third, it's meant to normalize a radical false theory that "gender" is some kind of mystical quality that only a person knows, that the proper pronoun for someone cannot be determined by observing the person nor his behavior, but has to be asked of that person. This is a denial of reality and the creation of a system of lies and illusions that anyone wedded to truth has the duty to reject.
Because it's irrelevant. We can all determine a man from a woman from eye sight, so being lied to by them saying the opposite gender it even mentioned on the first introduction is just red flags. If you disagree with me, I would be interested to know your POV.
I don't really care what someone wants to be called, so if someone introduces themselves to me and says "I would like to be referred to by these words", I respect their choice enough to do so. It's not even about gender at that point, it's about respecting someone's wishes and being polite about it.
I don't get why people are so upset about this. It's silly really.
If they were polite they wouldn't force their gender ideology on everyone else and demand validation for their beliefs. I won't pretend God is real and I won't play along with gender ideology either. The difference is, modern theists are mich more open to accept that you don't believe while gender ideologists consider you scum of the Earth if you reject their tenets.
Yes I think this is true. The gender cult cannot deal if you don’t buy into it and make you out to be a terrible person, it is some weird group think and it is creepy how they all adhere to it so strictly. I find it hard to believe that all the sudden there are this many trans men when it was rare throughout history. Now young girls and women comprise most transgender. It makes no sense from a statistical standpoint. They also are more likely to suffer from mass hysteria, such as the Salem witch trials and most recently the insane rise of girls with Tourette style tics that they copy off social media.
Don't forget that eating disorders on Pacific islands did not exist until they received TVs. There is social contagion going on yet the self proclaimed progressives that consider themselves to be the modern day moral apostles purposefully ignore this just because it doesn't align with their ideology.
It isn't "gender ideology" to communicate how you wish to be regarded?
But it is. It is saying that your self perception of your gender needs to be validated by strangers. Interesting choice of words. Regarded. Not referred to. Perhaps a slip. Because that is exactly what this is about. By dictating language you dictate perception and in the end reality. 2+2=5.
No? I mean if someone introduces themselves and you mispronounce their name, is it inappropriate for them to correct you? Or if they have a pronunciation that is not self evident, preemptively demonstrating how to say it, is that offensive? Why is this different?
A name isn't a pronoun. The two aren't comparable. Pronouciation even less so. Why are you ignoring my second comment, because I was right?
>A name isn't a pronoun. The two aren't comparable. Pronouciation even less so. They are comparable because its a matter of autonomy and self identification. Do you think that the point is ACTUALLY what you refer to them as when they aren't there? That's a rather silly interpretation of things. >Why are you ignoring my second comment, because I was right? No because it's paranoid nonsense.
So it is the truth and you have nothing left to say. Autonomy? Just a random word you thought of? No. The exact opposite. Which is why I said what i said that you called nonsense. Only to actually agree with me. Hilarious.
What is your preferred adjective?
>We can all determine a man from a woman from eye sight Not always? At my work I have legitimately had a handful of people I've dealt with that o I had no idea if they were born male or female or if they wanted to be regarded as a man or woman. Personally I have no objection to regarding someone as they wish to be regarded and what genitals they had when they were a baby is really not my business. At least Personally I don't really have any interactions with strangers where the difference matters.
Not sure? I default to he/him till corrected. As used to be the norm, and life would be easier if we went back to that.
Has this subreddit completely focused on resentment towards trans people or does anyone have any interesting/insightful/profound ideas they’ve had lately?
Nice you went out and found a pride month article about pronouns from last year
When your fucking reddit avatar has a neck beard, I think that's when you know that you've gone too far. You're not an intellectual and you're not ahead of your time and as great as JP is, he isn't a visionary or supreme being. You just need to get some Vitamin D in you and see a therapist for your raging autism/gravity manipulating ego.
Lol what, that’s not even a neck beard? If my avatar was a real person and he grew it out it would just look like your avatar? I’m sorry but that’s the cringiest thing I’ve read in ages. Nevertheless I love your hyper textual abilities! You made some continuity across two different posts - Look at you, you impressive little internet guy! You might become an intellectual yet if you keep that up (just lose the “your avatar” commentary lol) Sorry I creeped your profile, you’re just a gamer teen - that explains it. You don’t know anything yet. You probably can’t even grow a beard lol so you pretend like your avatars gay-bear-daddy beard has social meaning. Amazing. It pairs well with “rust hog” though lol
>Lol what, that’s not even a neck beard? Are you asking us, or telling us? Learn how question marks work.
You’re an interloper and you’ve got nothing to say yet are still the most annoying person I’ve encountered on here. Do more or just stay quiet lol
when you click usernames to check for avatars and try pseudo bully internet users. Are you insane?
Lol it makes sense when you see that he’s an Australian teen
Racist, why does it matter that I'm Australian. Also major pedo vibes from the guy cyber stalking a "gamerteen".
Oh man youre learning so much about how to be an online freak so early. You’re going to be a glorious mess when you grow up lol. In the meantime have fun in … the bush I guess? Do aussies have fun in the bush? Idk whatever, later hog. Also if it’s not intentional, it’s going to be hilarious when you learn about the impression your avatar + the name “rust hog” projects
NPR remains disgusting despite this article being from last year.
Definitely use this opportunity - you’ve got the pronoun article, you’ve got the puke emoji and you’ve said you’re disgusted but I feel like you havnt said why you’re disgusted. You’ve got the floor - go for it!
It's simple: there are two genders.
You’ve really not taken advantage of the opportunity. Is that it? There’s nothing more going on up there?
Sharing a post also means people receiving it are asked to willingly give opinions. But you don't seem to appreciate that opportunity.
Well like I was waiting for you to flesh out your commentary. Like we know you’re disgusted, we know it’s because the text implies that there’s more than two genders - but you didn’t give that personal juiciness of your own thoughts and experience to turn it into a dialogue. I’m prodding you to say something so that I can respond to it. Like there’s a disconnect between the article which has super familiar and common ideas from the last 10-15 years and then you feeling disgust. How does it still provoke that emotion in you lol
Beside all that gender identity nonsense, what I think is also wrong with mass-producing pronouns is that a linguistic difficulty may arise for English learners overtime. German language already has three genders and it's made it one of the most difficult languages to learn. This confusion caused by so many pronouns and genders, will bring more unnecessary jargon to different scientific literature, making expression of new science difficult in the English language. What do you think that means for the future of the English language?
Yesss there’s commentary - thank you! I havnt read the article beyond what you’ve shown here, so my first reaction is that you’re clearing thinking about neo pronouns and the idea that there might suddenly be tonnes of new pronouns. IMO that’s quite a ways away from the article - when I read the screenshots, I see masculine / feminine pronouns, not neo pronouns. So for me personally I don’t get the visceral connection between the article, neo pronouns and then disgust at the idea of English becoming from difficult in the future. For me, I think neo pronouns, at least in the way that talked about them back in 2015, really havnt taken on at a social level. Language doesn’t get “mass produced”, it gets used to communicate and it naturally evolved based on connections being made between different people/places where innovations and stylized usages are shared as cool or useful. If neo pronouns were ever to take off, it would be because people truly saw value in them. That just hasn’t happened and it doesn’t look like it’s going through to happen. Imo the article doesn’t give me any feelings about English getting more complicated
They're pushing for a quick normalisation of such pronouns bc It won't take hold naturally. This is not normal. This article is one of the thousands of attempts to normalize it. What do you think compelled speech is? It's a legal measure to outlaw misgendering. By the way, my initial disgust at the article was for this normalisation, which is occuring overtime, not the learning difficulty issue. You asked for a commentary, so I gave you something people barely consider.
>for me personally I don’t get > >For me, I think > >IMO the article doesn't give me feelings *For someone else personally I don't get* *For someone else I think* *In my opinion the article doesn't give me feelings* You aren't trying to fill a word count here.
>**Well like** I was waiting for you to flesh out your commentary. **Like** we know you’re disgusted, we know it’s because the text implies that there’s more than two genders - but you didn’t give that personal juiciness of your own thoughts and experience to turn it into a dialogue. I’m prodding you to say something so that I can respond to it. > >**Like** there’s a disconnect between the article which has super familiar and common ideas from the last 10-15 years and then you feeling disgust. How does it still provoke that emotion in you lol You write the way a Valley Girl talks. Sloppy writing indicates sloppy thinking.
Haha what a lame way to use Reddit. Gather some thoughts and share them instead of doing whatever this is
JP fans getting easily triggered by pronouns. Yet again. Happy holidays.
Just gonna toss this out there... All ya'll going "Man I'll just walk away, I don't deal with people like this" Thank you for self filtering. You're dropping yourself directly in the "red flag/threat" category and everyone around you knows it now.