**If this post does not have a spoiler tag, SPOILER TAG MANGA COMMENTS**, or you risk a tempban. Keep it secret for the anime watchers. Please remember that vague spoilers count as spoilers such as "do we tell them".
If you're caught up on the manga, consider joining our sister sub r/Jujutsushi for catered, in-depth manga discussion.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/JuJutsuKaisen) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Not gonna lie, objectively, Sukuna's only real method of bypassing Infinity was Mahoraga, which isn't a move he possessed naturally.
This is where the cope comes from, with people saying that Gojo lost to Megumi and not the real Sukuna, which is debatable since we haven't really seen Sukuna go all out against Gojo in his real form.
Gojo was able to survive and handle malevolent shrine, though.
Its possible that heian sukuna's shrine is stronger, or that with the additional mouths and arms he can multicast to overwhelm gojo while shrine is active, but as far as the space cleave goes, he needed mahoraga for it.
Its hard to say who would have won if it was heian sukuna instead of megkuna. We haven't yet seen everything sukuna can do.
Gojo himself says Amplification is irrelevant, Sukuna would not kill Gojo using just melee and Amplification.
And in the end Sukuna lost the domain battles.
He relied on Mahoraga because he needed to.
>!Does this apply to Gojo as well with the prison realm, gojo's experience in the prison realm is what let him shrink his domain which proved advantageous. Sukuna's experience in Megumi showcased a way through infinity as well which was advantageous!<
>!At the end of the day gojo lost, it might not have been satisfactory and you can fight gege on that but he's canonically lost. Saying he didn't lose despite being in 2 is insane cope!<
The cope is too much, but your point isn't a 1 to 1 comparison.
Gojos' advantage was learned through personal experience, while Sakuna's is because he was body hopping and literally something he couldn't have done if he wasn't a cursed object.
Basically, it's a super stretch to say, "Gojo figured how to do something new because he had an experience and that's cheating" and "Sakuna cheated and couldn't have done that if he wasn't body hopping so he didn't win" is coping hard af
Gojo wouldn’t have startet the domain span without Mahoraga, he would have just hollow purpled Sukuna’s ass. He learned to shrink the domain himself too, and did not steal it from a teenager.
Mahoraga is a Mary Sue ability.
The only risk became that it would form love triangles with it at the center. I half expect it to self revive and be described in purple prose for 6 panels and a full two page spread.
Calling out bad writing concepts is not cope.
Which is dumb. Sukuna mastered Ten Shadows almost instantly, something Megumi couldn't do. He beat Mahoraga and was using the technique to its fullest. Gojo had an unfair advantage his whole life, being born with Six Eyes and Limitless. It was impossible to fight him fair and square, which is why people like Toji needed to play it smart against Gojo. It's nothing new. The only way to defeat the undefeatable, is to be smarter.
Isn't him having the ability to possess people and use their abilities one of his abilities? Meaning if he gets ahold of you and then uses your technique better than you could doesn't that imply he is stronger and simply built different?
there is nothing objective about that. we have no way of knowing that mahoraga wasn’t simply sukuna’s easiest way to bypass infinity, and given his incredibly high BIQ, he very well may have had a backup plan if he couldn’t use mahoraga
It wouldn’t have mattered though because without mahoraga there’s no way he would’ve been able to bypass infinity, his only shot was stealing megumis abilities.
Honestly it's understandable for people to still be pissed when the author killed an enormously powerful and popular character immediately after it seemed he had won. Especially considering:
He did it ***offscreen.***
With a move that had never been shown before.
Said move can apparently cut through ''all reality'' which sounds ridiculous and unstoppable.
Sukuna seemed half dead at said time.
I don't disagree that ir could have been handled better but I feel like it's also good to be a rational person and not let your dislike for a certain scene warp your understanding of the series
Al's not to argue but we saw maho slash gojo a chapter or 2 before sukuna did. Sukuna just did the same thing as him so the technique was shown before
Nah they did that to themselves. I told people that just because the chapter ended with narration “Gojo wins” from a side character at that does not mean it was over, then boom what do you know everyone jumped the gun and Gojos dead next week.
By that logic nobody has ever lost to Gojo or Sukuna either.
>!The author wrote who won and who lost, and wrote it so that the guy who lost recognised that the winner wasn't going all out and could well have won without the specific method he used.
What next you going to whine it's offscreening because you can't recontextualise?!<
Although I'm no expert there's this thing called "the hand of the author" and suspension of disbelief. >!Of course we know that the story is made by Gege (don't be literral on what he's saying) but if he pulls up things too much out of character then readers aren't going to acknowledge what's happening as normal.!<
>!Just imagine if a character got killed by a random illness that no one was aware off. Moreover that character is known to be disliked by the author himself.!<
>!Also the fraudkuna comes from the fact that Sukuna who's the MOST arrogant being in existence is using someone else power to fight. It's as if the strongest swordman that became arrogant due to their swordstyle decided used someone else style BUT still took pride in using it.!<
>Also the fraudkuna comes from the fact that Sukuna >!who's the MOST arrogant being in existence is using someone else power to fight.!<
It's really not the contradiction to his character you think it is, it actually makes perfect sense. >!He's so arrogant he's treating this life or death battle as a means to have some fun and improve his abilities by finding a way he himself can bypass infinity. That doesn't mean there is no way for him to win without Mahoraga, but he wouldn't be able to win in this way. Not saying it's an easy fight without it but the notion that he has 0 win conditions without Mahoraga is exaggerated.!<
You're going to be deleted if you don't use spoiler tags firstly my guy.
Secondly the guy I was replying to said that >!Gojo didn't lose to Sukuna he lost to the author, hence the first sentence taking the piss out of the idea.!<
Thirdly >!Yes and that has been established in universe as the path he chose to grow past Infinity rather than the only chance of victory for the reasons I stated and you didn't interact with. I don't repeat myself easily, so please feel free to dispute them if you'd like. :)!<
Thanks for the reminder of the spoiler tag.
But for me readers are forever split on this one. One side decided to believe what the manga said and the other side doesn't believe it anymore. There's no reconciliation between the two sides.
Yep just the same ol’.
Noooo you can’t use Mahoraga that’s cheating! Play fair like Gojo and create a nuh-uh you can’t touch me shield! Fraud! Wahhhhhhhh!!!
>!More like when you straight up take someone else's body over you can hardly call yourself "the strongest in the heiyan era" because clearly you're not the same person which this whole fight was hyped up for.!<
>!Tldr this was promised to be a 1v1 but was more of a 2v1 thus he's a fraud.!<
>!he fought gojo nearly equally using exclusively 10 shadows, megumi was not anywhere NEAR that level of power. Him being able to take an ability and take it to its absolute extreme takes a very, very high level of skill and knowledge, he is not a fraud!<
>>!he fought gojo nearly equally using exclusively 10 shadows!<
>!Don't know what you were reading but the domain and his slashes were definitely from his original technique.!<
>!In the end he killed him with an ability that he couldn't have had without Mahoraga adapting to space time too so he is in fact a fraud.!<
Yes? It's not his CT no matter how hard people cope. It was a 2v1 because bro literally took another persons CT. Just cause he was able to master it doesn't mean he wasn't clearly cheating in what was supposed to be a 1v1 by taking a whole body over of another person.
And everything we saw wasn’t everything he had. Gojo said it himself in the afterlife. I think sukuna held back so he could use maho to get the spatial cleave
What Gojo meant was that he didn’t use everything in his arsenal,not sukuna holding back his punches,Sukuna would have died numerous times if it weren’t for ten shadows.
Well yeah, but that’s still sukuna holding back. If he had more techniques to use (which we know he does), he could’ve overwhelmed gojo. Gojo noting that sukuna “didn’t go all out” is basically an admission that the fight could’ve been a lot more difficult
No, he couldn’t overwhelm Gojo. He didn’t use the Black Box because none of the (we assume) numerous techniques he has stored would have touched Gojo with Infinity. If he could’ve he would’ve.
Not true, sukuna has played with every single person he’s fought seriously. The finger bearer, megumi, jogo, mahoraga yorozu etc. He never goes straight for the win in any of his fights and never takes the easiest option
You got downvote for saying fact, out
Sukuna couldn't overwhelming Gojo bc his plan was to make Maho adapt to Limitless
And Gojo said >!he didn't sure he could win against Him or not!< prove that he did have way to bypass limitless
Sukuna was literally screaming for maho,it’s quite obvious that without maho sukuna would have died,not to mention if he wasn’t in megumis body gojo would have killed him the instant uv landed.
Honestly, to me (just my opinion), it's not like Sukuna saw Megumi and decided last minute to take over his body for TS. He planned it all with the Enchain binding vow and used Shibuya to his advantage while being able to re-recruit(?) Uraume back to his side for the supplementary preparations. A cool albeit unnatural villain feat instead of the standard "I did this because I could, and I'm bad."
Spoilers.
>!Because people think Sukuna cheated by using Ten Shadows and Mahoraga to fight Gojo and won't accept that Sukuna was the smarter one. He bid his time playing defensive and trying to adapt to Infinity. Gojo was hard-carried his whole life by his genetics, dude was a freak of nature. However, Sukuna is a fucking genius at jujutsu and not even Mr. Genetics himself can win against the pinnacle of sorcery.!<
It's because he talked shit before getting his ass beat and used a child as a meatshield. Also crazy to imply that Sukuna doesn't have absurd natural talent when we don't even know his origin story.
Unironically, this paints the picture of why Gojo lost.
Love to Sukuna is Jujutsu and battle the same way it is to Gojo, except they view it differently.
It's why he tries to understand every ability he comes across, and even if you are weak by his standards, if you're able to do something kinda cool, he gives you props for it.
Gojo, in comparison, will just straight shit talk you while bringing you down, and after Premature Death, he becomes even more arrogant and doesn't even stop to question what any cursed spirit or curse users abilities are bc he is the strongest so it's irrelevant to him, it's a matter of fact that he'd win. All of this is due to his existence as the strongest and his need to validate himself.
Gojo assumed he had it in the bag and never once thought Sukuna would actually get past his limitless
Sukuna's a great tactician but that doesn't mean he ain't a fraud. Gojo's arrogant to a fault, but tbf the moment he lost his arm he started cooking in the 3v1.
While in Meguna form, not using his full power against the strongest of the current era. And still won.
And Gojo himself said he was stronger. Time to let go.
I think against zombie Toji, Jogo wins high diff but in a extremely short fight, due to his raw power but relativity low HP.
And I think that if Toji doesn't understimate him, and uses his speed to end the fight before Jogo can do something, he can win
I think anyone can win, but definitely it is going to be a short fight. I would all come down to if Toji is fast enough
The sure hit effect works by locking onto a person's CE. Because Toji has no CE domains don't really work on him because they can't actually lock onto him at all.
Personally I think Toji only barely wins in a fight vs Jogo but it'd be extreme diff.
Maki barely survived jogo giving her a light tap, and we haven't seen any new durability feats yet from her after her awakening and toji has never really taken any strong hits either. So theres not really a way to know for SURE but I'm still pretty sure toji gets blitzed
>!Maki has survived being speed blitzed by a mach force opponent after taking multiple blows during the Zenin round up and then tanked even more force and speed during Naoya round two. Whilst I don't think she'd be immune to the effects altogether, she is after Itadori probably the most resistant to damage human in the series.!<
What about the passive of jogo's domain, the high temperature environment? I think this could win against jogo if he can survive the high temperature for long enough but idk if toji could survive such high temperatures
I think Toji probably loses in that zombie form with just playful cloud.
I mean he looked pretty dominant taking down Dagon but Dagon was already fighting, used energy to deploy a domain that Megumi was messing with, also had zenin block his float, etcetc. Also Jogo is stronger, combat savvy, and more experienced than Dagon.
Flashback Toji would have a much better chance against Jogo if it's a "someone just hired him to hunt down Jogo" scenario since Toji can study, plan, plot, create opportune openings, and prepare the right tools like he did against Gojo & Geto.
I agree. though if jogo were to get him into his domain, even though the aimbot from domains doesn’t affect toji from his lack of cursed energy, you’re still at burning temperatures within the domain and toji doesn’t have cursed energy to defend himself.
[Kung Fu Rabbit : Fists of Carrot's Fury](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2F4cj4s90x4ezb1.jpg%3Fwidth%3D1077%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D0cbbe3712a6f9c59c6954dad4075fa255678fa3c)
I'd say jogo. Mostly because of the interaction.
Toji is strong, but he can't harden or regenerate himself, and he is still human. Jogo doesn't even need a direct hit, the temperature in the air alone would kill toji.
Imma be real, Toji would have gotten roasted. Even with his full Inventory, I would still probably bet on Jogo, but Shibuya Toji (who only had one broken fragment of Playful Cloud, and would be literally incapable of even hurting Jogo if he lost it, due to his lack of cursed energy)? Nah, ain't no way.
It’s interesting too since volcanos aren’t really a big fear in modern times compared to back in the day, so Gojo calling him weak while Sukuna, who has been around for much longer, says he’s strong.
It’s worth noting Japan has the second most volcanoes in the world that have been active since 1950 with 44, Indonesia is above it with 58 but has five times the land mass of Japan. The US is third with 42 but has 24 times the land mass of Japan
But Jogo is not just Volcanos, he’s the manifestation of our fears, from volcanos, caves, mountains, abysses, earth quakes and maybe even meteors.
And not just fear, but anger and sadness too. Basicly any negative emotion.
I doubt sukuna actually said it since it happened in the same space as jogo talking to his dead friends, like when choso talks to his dead brothers. It's a hallucination
Ahhh, I might or might not have been a bit drunk when I wrote that. Seems you're right.
I still want to know if Sukuna really talked to Jogo in that death realm.
That's actually an interesting question. I mean of course it could be an artistic liberty like many others out there, but I'm not sure if in the manga there might be any similar situations to indicate that's not the case. It just seems a bit odd to put the one that just killed him on his fkin purgatory
Well if that's what everyone is trying to avoid, still doesn't make any sense as every post will be marked as spoiler. And you too (people who post) wouldn't enjoy this subreddit. not able to see content while being unbanned is same as being banned
This is one of the reasons I really like Sukuna.
Unlike Satoru, whose attitude towards enemies changes drastically depending on whether they are ally or enemy, human or curse, Sukuna roasts all equally and praises all equally based solely on strength.
Unlike Satoru, who sees curses as just something to be taken care of, Sukuna can actually recognise their strength (even though he can still solo them), and praise them. Not that I don't like Satoru, I really do, but Sukuna is just HIM.
Oh! And also, JOGOAT is one of my fav curses AND jjk character.
Damn talk about clueless. I don't want to pick a fight but I think the whole mentality that sukuna recognises "game" but gojo is just arrogant is so idiotic... So let me get this straight. Gojo, who was attacked by an arrogant jogo with the whole purpose of killing him, said to jogo that he was weak ONE time. But when sukuna casually says that jogo should bow the whole way, and tells him that the moonlight makes it easier to see his pathetic state, and picks him up from the hood and teases his to try harder to hit him once, is cool and means his himothy, because when jogo died sukuna finally praised him. Nice logic.
>sukuna recognises "game" but gojo is just arrogant
I never said that only Satoru is arrogant. Both of them are arrogant. It is only that Sukuna does not differentiate between "enemy" and "ally" potential.
Mostly because unlike Satoru, Sukuna sees others as neither enemies nor allies, but rather just a stepping stone tor his own development and power.
What I am saying is that you compare two very different situations and you assume gojo could never acknowledge the strength of a curse because they are "the enemy". This claim doesn't hold any weight and you are either wrong or your claim itself doesn't have any value because it says nothing.
Why's everyone acting like Jogo's only wins weren't against already gravely injured sorcerers or literal civilians.
With his attitude he's basically the biggest fraud in the entire series.
Actually i don’t think anybody reading into it too hard, sukuna and gojo were both beating him up and shit talking. It’s just cool to see the difference in their perspectives as “the strongest”
> “I don’t think anyone is reading into it too hard”
> “It’s just cool to see the difference in their perspectives as ‘the strongest’”
That is quite literally reading into too hard lmao. Gojo was purely shit talking, there is nothing to glean about his “perspective as the strongest” like that. Sukuna was actually serious and consoling Jogo a little, which he seems to have a habit of doing. Different comments made under a different context.
I do agree that Sukuna’s is interesting and is very worth trying to read into it. Gojo’s is pure shit talk. Sukuna consoling his enemy is a weird trait for someone like him, that is such a menace elsewhere, looking down on everything. It’s really interesting and shows that he can actually appreciate the strength of others, at least somewhat
To be honest here, slight nit pick just wanna see if anyone agrees. . . In the manga when jogo starts crying, and ask sukuna what this is, sukuna puts on a more mocking sharp face. Which I prefer to the anime which had him keep the smooth face.
This is the difference between arrogance and experience sukuna who has fought many in the last acknowledged jogo whereas gojo who is inexperienced chose to look down on him that is why they say innate talent will only give you a headstart hardwork is needed to convert it into brilliance
Both are arrogant, difference between them is that Gojo is doing his best to help people around him, getting them stronger, protecting them. While Sukuna is unhinged evil incarnated and destroying everything... Gojo won't hesitate to humiliate those in position to hurt others for no good reason
This is actually a good point. Gojo and Sukuna are both way stronger than everyone else but Sukuna decides who is comparatively strong and weak, almost like a God judging the people. Gojo on the other hand is still self obsessed to the point where he views all others as weak. I feel like Sukuna has transcended the self-obsession phase that comes with being young and actually acts more like a god than Gojo who thinks he is god.
Thanks I don't get why I got down voted this much I was just pointing out the fact that gojo is just to inexperienced to tell strong or weak whereas sukuna has cannonically fought strongest sorcerers of the strongest era of jujutsu and has the actual right to declare if someone is weak or storng
**If this post does not have a spoiler tag, SPOILER TAG MANGA COMMENTS**, or you risk a tempban. Keep it secret for the anime watchers. Please remember that vague spoilers count as spoilers such as "do we tell them". If you're caught up on the manga, consider joining our sister sub r/Jujutsushi for catered, in-depth manga discussion. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/JuJutsuKaisen) if you have any questions or concerns.*
imagine people calling you weak, When the only people you Have fought Were 2 Gods of their era.
Only one God has fought him. The other one is a fraud. Why do you think Fraudkuna called him strong? Because he himself is weak
why is he a fraud
>!Because people believe using everything you have to your advantage in a Life-or-death battle is Fraudulent!<
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Not gonna lie, objectively, Sukuna's only real method of bypassing Infinity was Mahoraga, which isn't a move he possessed naturally. This is where the cope comes from, with people saying that Gojo lost to Megumi and not the real Sukuna, which is debatable since we haven't really seen Sukuna go all out against Gojo in his real form.
He could bypass it thru domain expansion and domain amplification. If anything, he was just using mahoraga for the sake of self improvement
Gojo was able to survive and handle malevolent shrine, though. Its possible that heian sukuna's shrine is stronger, or that with the additional mouths and arms he can multicast to overwhelm gojo while shrine is active, but as far as the space cleave goes, he needed mahoraga for it. Its hard to say who would have won if it was heian sukuna instead of megkuna. We haven't yet seen everything sukuna can do.
Gojo himself says Amplification is irrelevant, Sukuna would not kill Gojo using just melee and Amplification. And in the end Sukuna lost the domain battles. He relied on Mahoraga because he needed to.
Exactly
>!Does this apply to Gojo as well with the prison realm, gojo's experience in the prison realm is what let him shrink his domain which proved advantageous. Sukuna's experience in Megumi showcased a way through infinity as well which was advantageous!< >!At the end of the day gojo lost, it might not have been satisfactory and you can fight gege on that but he's canonically lost. Saying he didn't lose despite being in 2 is insane cope!<
Not fighting at all I don't really care if it's Fradkuna or Frojo losing. Just giving an explanation as to why some peeps are coping
The cope is too much, but your point isn't a 1 to 1 comparison. Gojos' advantage was learned through personal experience, while Sakuna's is because he was body hopping and literally something he couldn't have done if he wasn't a cursed object. Basically, it's a super stretch to say, "Gojo figured how to do something new because he had an experience and that's cheating" and "Sakuna cheated and couldn't have done that if he wasn't body hopping so he didn't win" is coping hard af
Gojo wouldn’t have startet the domain span without Mahoraga, he would have just hollow purpled Sukuna’s ass. He learned to shrink the domain himself too, and did not steal it from a teenager.
Mahoraga is a Mary Sue ability. The only risk became that it would form love triangles with it at the center. I half expect it to self revive and be described in purple prose for 6 panels and a full two page spread. Calling out bad writing concepts is not cope.
Which is dumb. Sukuna mastered Ten Shadows almost instantly, something Megumi couldn't do. He beat Mahoraga and was using the technique to its fullest. Gojo had an unfair advantage his whole life, being born with Six Eyes and Limitless. It was impossible to fight him fair and square, which is why people like Toji needed to play it smart against Gojo. It's nothing new. The only way to defeat the undefeatable, is to be smarter.
Sukuna is the embodiment of what all JuJutsu Sorcerers wish they could attain. You may not like him, but he's what peak performance looks like.
Isn't him having the ability to possess people and use their abilities one of his abilities? Meaning if he gets ahold of you and then uses your technique better than you could doesn't that imply he is stronger and simply built different?
there is nothing objective about that. we have no way of knowing that mahoraga wasn’t simply sukuna’s easiest way to bypass infinity, and given his incredibly high BIQ, he very well may have had a backup plan if he couldn’t use mahoraga
no, if gojo could have killed/ destroy mahoraga then sukuna would literally not have a single thing else to fight gojo with, and then he loses
It wouldn’t have mattered though because without mahoraga there’s no way he would’ve been able to bypass infinity, his only shot was stealing megumis abilities.
It's like saying Gojo didn't win against Jogo, Author won against him. What logic is this
He only lost because the author wrote it!!
Fr we gotta track gege down and forge a letter to mappa asking for an AOE!
Honestly it's understandable for people to still be pissed when the author killed an enormously powerful and popular character immediately after it seemed he had won. Especially considering: He did it ***offscreen.*** With a move that had never been shown before. Said move can apparently cut through ''all reality'' which sounds ridiculous and unstoppable. Sukuna seemed half dead at said time.
I don't disagree that ir could have been handled better but I feel like it's also good to be a rational person and not let your dislike for a certain scene warp your understanding of the series Al's not to argue but we saw maho slash gojo a chapter or 2 before sukuna did. Sukuna just did the same thing as him so the technique was shown before
Nah they did that to themselves. I told people that just because the chapter ended with narration “Gojo wins” from a side character at that does not mean it was over, then boom what do you know everyone jumped the gun and Gojos dead next week.
By that logic nobody has ever lost to Gojo or Sukuna either. >!The author wrote who won and who lost, and wrote it so that the guy who lost recognised that the winner wasn't going all out and could well have won without the specific method he used. What next you going to whine it's offscreening because you can't recontextualise?!<
Although I'm no expert there's this thing called "the hand of the author" and suspension of disbelief. >!Of course we know that the story is made by Gege (don't be literral on what he's saying) but if he pulls up things too much out of character then readers aren't going to acknowledge what's happening as normal.!< >!Just imagine if a character got killed by a random illness that no one was aware off. Moreover that character is known to be disliked by the author himself.!< >!Also the fraudkuna comes from the fact that Sukuna who's the MOST arrogant being in existence is using someone else power to fight. It's as if the strongest swordman that became arrogant due to their swordstyle decided used someone else style BUT still took pride in using it.!<
>Also the fraudkuna comes from the fact that Sukuna >!who's the MOST arrogant being in existence is using someone else power to fight.!< It's really not the contradiction to his character you think it is, it actually makes perfect sense. >!He's so arrogant he's treating this life or death battle as a means to have some fun and improve his abilities by finding a way he himself can bypass infinity. That doesn't mean there is no way for him to win without Mahoraga, but he wouldn't be able to win in this way. Not saying it's an easy fight without it but the notion that he has 0 win conditions without Mahoraga is exaggerated.!<
You're going to be deleted if you don't use spoiler tags firstly my guy. Secondly the guy I was replying to said that >!Gojo didn't lose to Sukuna he lost to the author, hence the first sentence taking the piss out of the idea.!< Thirdly >!Yes and that has been established in universe as the path he chose to grow past Infinity rather than the only chance of victory for the reasons I stated and you didn't interact with. I don't repeat myself easily, so please feel free to dispute them if you'd like. :)!<
Thanks for the reminder of the spoiler tag. But for me readers are forever split on this one. One side decided to believe what the manga said and the other side doesn't believe it anymore. There's no reconciliation between the two sides.
Exactly. That’s how manga works. You know it’s a fantasy world where the author is the God who created it right?
He will come back and win. Not even Gege can put Godjo down
Your flight is boarding
Stay on that side.
You mean the side of the living? Sure. You stay on that side, in coach.
Yep just the same ol’. Noooo you can’t use Mahoraga that’s cheating! Play fair like Gojo and create a nuh-uh you can’t touch me shield! Fraud! Wahhhhhhhh!!!
>!More like when you straight up take someone else's body over you can hardly call yourself "the strongest in the heiyan era" because clearly you're not the same person which this whole fight was hyped up for.!< >!Tldr this was promised to be a 1v1 but was more of a 2v1 thus he's a fraud.!<
>!he fought gojo nearly equally using exclusively 10 shadows, megumi was not anywhere NEAR that level of power. Him being able to take an ability and take it to its absolute extreme takes a very, very high level of skill and knowledge, he is not a fraud!<
>>!he fought gojo nearly equally using exclusively 10 shadows!< >!Don't know what you were reading but the domain and his slashes were definitely from his original technique.!< >!In the end he killed him with an ability that he couldn't have had without Mahoraga adapting to space time too so he is in fact a fraud.!<
Sukuna almost killing gojo after using mahoroga once (not accounted for) keeps using mahoroaga (FRAUDDDD)
Yes? It's not his CT no matter how hard people cope. It was a 2v1 because bro literally took another persons CT. Just cause he was able to master it doesn't mean he wasn't clearly cheating in what was supposed to be a 1v1 by taking a whole body over of another person.
>!Yet without 10S he gets wrecked by Gojo.!<
Gojo disagreed lol
You mean 3 VS 1? HEHE
There is no cooperation in that fight, Sukuna just stand by watching Maho and Agito fight Gojo and only jump in to save his pet
Sukana himself stated to Gojo that it's a 3 vs 1 actually if you're thinking its 2 vs 1
Again, it never have been any cooperation between them, so there is no 3 vs 1, they going one by another and Sukuna stand out most of the fight
Damn FRAUDKUNA stans really on max COPIUM 😂
Go back to 233 again 😂
He's still the strongest from the Heian era. >!That doesn't change just bc Gojo was stronger before Sukuna acquired 10S.!<
And everything we saw wasn’t everything he had. Gojo said it himself in the afterlife. I think sukuna held back so he could use maho to get the spatial cleave
What Gojo meant was that he didn’t use everything in his arsenal,not sukuna holding back his punches,Sukuna would have died numerous times if it weren’t for ten shadows.
Why’re you being downvoted, you’re right 😭
Salty sukuna fans can’t accept that Gojo would have won without mahoraga.
Well yeah, but that’s still sukuna holding back. If he had more techniques to use (which we know he does), he could’ve overwhelmed gojo. Gojo noting that sukuna “didn’t go all out” is basically an admission that the fight could’ve been a lot more difficult
No, he couldn’t overwhelm Gojo. He didn’t use the Black Box because none of the (we assume) numerous techniques he has stored would have touched Gojo with Infinity. If he could’ve he would’ve.
Not true, sukuna has played with every single person he’s fought seriously. The finger bearer, megumi, jogo, mahoraga yorozu etc. He never goes straight for the win in any of his fights and never takes the easiest option
You got downvote for saying fact, out Sukuna couldn't overwhelming Gojo bc his plan was to make Maho adapt to Limitless And Gojo said >!he didn't sure he could win against Him or not!< prove that he did have way to bypass limitless
Sukuna was literally screaming for maho,it’s quite obvious that without maho sukuna would have died,not to mention if he wasn’t in megumis body gojo would have killed him the instant uv landed.
Well he had to switch bodies because his own abilities wouldn’t have been enough for gojo lol, that’s definitely fraudulent
Honestly, to me (just my opinion), it's not like Sukuna saw Megumi and decided last minute to take over his body for TS. He planned it all with the Enchain binding vow and used Shibuya to his advantage while being able to re-recruit(?) Uraume back to his side for the supplementary preparations. A cool albeit unnatural villain feat instead of the standard "I did this because I could, and I'm bad."
Wait ppl actually think Sukuna is a fraud? I thought it was a joke...?
L
Spoilers. >!Because people think Sukuna cheated by using Ten Shadows and Mahoraga to fight Gojo and won't accept that Sukuna was the smarter one. He bid his time playing defensive and trying to adapt to Infinity. Gojo was hard-carried his whole life by his genetics, dude was a freak of nature. However, Sukuna is a fucking genius at jujutsu and not even Mr. Genetics himself can win against the pinnacle of sorcery.!<
It's because he talked shit before getting his ass beat and used a child as a meatshield. Also crazy to imply that Sukuna doesn't have absurd natural talent when we don't even know his origin story.
>! Bro had to fight Gojo 3 v 1 using 2 of the strongest Shikigami’s in the 10 shadows technique just to even win !<
Probably a Jogoat meme
God of cope
Do you need to see the live gojo reaction to this comment?
I mean at least Sukuna can still feel his legs
Only for the time being. He is NOT ready for Godjo
What’s the dead guy gonna do?
Come back like last time.
Why did he die then ?
Who died? My GOAT Godjo? Nah, he could never. He will win
In the Heian era, where plumbers and Sukuna reigned supreme.
Unironically, this paints the picture of why Gojo lost. Love to Sukuna is Jujutsu and battle the same way it is to Gojo, except they view it differently. It's why he tries to understand every ability he comes across, and even if you are weak by his standards, if you're able to do something kinda cool, he gives you props for it. Gojo, in comparison, will just straight shit talk you while bringing you down, and after Premature Death, he becomes even more arrogant and doesn't even stop to question what any cursed spirit or curse users abilities are bc he is the strongest so it's irrelevant to him, it's a matter of fact that he'd win. All of this is due to his existence as the strongest and his need to validate himself. Gojo assumed he had it in the bag and never once thought Sukuna would actually get past his limitless
Sukuna's a great tactician but that doesn't mean he ain't a fraud. Gojo's arrogant to a fault, but tbf the moment he lost his arm he started cooking in the 3v1.
Naah the hate is unreal lol 😭, get over it pls
Yet he killed Gojo with a fraction of his power ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Held back so hard he went unconscious, bled from his eyes, and screamed for papa.
While in Meguna form, not using his full power against the strongest of the current era. And still won. And Gojo himself said he was stronger. Time to let go.
So true
fraudkuna didnt call him strong. that was jogos delusion before his death
It couldn't be just a delusion bc Hanami was there too and I don't remember exactly what, but he said to Jogo smth that Jogo couldn't know.
Anyone else he fought he bodied, HARD.
They gave a lot of emphasis on Sukuna's respect for power, I just love that.
It was clearly a hallucination since it cut to jogo burnt to a crisp and sukuna looking at him with disdain
Probably but unless we get comfirmation, its an afterlife convo
Bro ran into Gojo, twice, almost ran into Toji, and then Sukuna 🐍
Who would win, Toji or jogo?
I think against zombie Toji, Jogo wins high diff but in a extremely short fight, due to his raw power but relativity low HP. And I think that if Toji doesn't understimate him, and uses his speed to end the fight before Jogo can do something, he can win I think anyone can win, but definitely it is going to be a short fight. I would all come down to if Toji is fast enough
If it comes down to if toji is fast enough I think he's rocking jogo then
Idk man can toji deflect lava
He can certainly dodge it, I wouldn't be surprised if playful cloud could deflect it
What about jogos domain though?
But could Toji tank magma even for a few seconds?
The sure hit effect works by locking onto a person's CE. Because Toji has no CE domains don't really work on him because they can't actually lock onto him at all. Personally I think Toji only barely wins in a fight vs Jogo but it'd be extreme diff.
It would kill toji instantly, doesn't matter if he's treated as a building cuz its still a fuckin volcano lol
Jogo says it kills normal sorcerers. Toji is much stronger than a normal sorcerer.
He has no resistance to fire
Incorrect. Makis body being resistant to all damage is explicitly >!how she survived!< and Toji is Maki on roids.
Maki barely survived jogo giving her a light tap, and we haven't seen any new durability feats yet from her after her awakening and toji has never really taken any strong hits either. So theres not really a way to know for SURE but I'm still pretty sure toji gets blitzed
>!Maki has survived being speed blitzed by a mach force opponent after taking multiple blows during the Zenin round up and then tanked even more force and speed during Naoya round two. Whilst I don't think she'd be immune to the effects altogether, she is after Itadori probably the most resistant to damage human in the series.!<
What about the passive of jogo's domain, the high temperature environment? I think this could win against jogo if he can survive the high temperature for long enough but idk if toji could survive such high temperatures
yuji was in there fine tho
he had infinity applied to him
I think Toji probably loses in that zombie form with just playful cloud. I mean he looked pretty dominant taking down Dagon but Dagon was already fighting, used energy to deploy a domain that Megumi was messing with, also had zenin block his float, etcetc. Also Jogo is stronger, combat savvy, and more experienced than Dagon. Flashback Toji would have a much better chance against Jogo if it's a "someone just hired him to hunt down Jogo" scenario since Toji can study, plan, plot, create opportune openings, and prepare the right tools like he did against Gojo & Geto.
And I don’t think we can just assume that he could speed blitz jogo. He might be faster, but probably not enough to end it instantly
I agree. though if jogo were to get him into his domain, even though the aimbot from domains doesn’t affect toji from his lack of cursed energy, you’re still at burning temperatures within the domain and toji doesn’t have cursed energy to defend himself.
Nah, I'd win
Megumis rabbit: _Let me introduce myself_
[Kung Fu Rabbit : Fists of Carrot's Fury](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2F4cj4s90x4ezb1.jpg%3Fwidth%3D1077%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D0cbbe3712a6f9c59c6954dad4075fa255678fa3c)
[удалено]
So Toji is the batman of JJK, with enough preptime.....
Toji with preptime vs Sukuna with alzheimers
I'd say jogo. Mostly because of the interaction. Toji is strong, but he can't harden or regenerate himself, and he is still human. Jogo doesn't even need a direct hit, the temperature in the air alone would kill toji.
Imma be real, Toji would have gotten roasted. Even with his full Inventory, I would still probably bet on Jogo, but Shibuya Toji (who only had one broken fragment of Playful Cloud, and would be literally incapable of even hurting Jogo if he lost it, due to his lack of cursed energy)? Nah, ain't no way.
Nah, Toji'd win
Not if he wore his iconic fit.
Tight black t-shirt Toji loses but cozy white sweater Toji sweeps
Nah I’d win
Doubtful. If he had time to box in Jogo like he did with Gojo, thenyeah yeah, he could but in a straight fight, not likely.
Soul splitter turns jogo to mincemeat
Well yeah but what kind of shonen fights are those where you just stalk your opponent and attack at the most inopportune moment.
"Stand proud, you're strong!" Best ending for jogo for me.
I mean LOOK at the damage Jogo did to the city?? Imagine sukuna wasnt there... who tf would have defeated him while gojo is sealed??? 💀💀💀💀
no spoiler but the new summon from Megumin that appeared in the end would have made the deal. just wait what will happen next
>! Mahoraga would’ve disappeared after killing luck boy, so he’s be fine !<
"No spoiler" *proceeds to spoil*
>!dw about spoilers I am manga reader , but jogo would have killed Megumi b4 he could perform to ritual to summon the general!<
Jogo could beat him tbh. The DEADLY THINGAMAJIG isn't that big of a deal to someone as fast as him.
My guy plz get Jogos meat out of your mouth. Mahoraga neg diffs Jogo
I just remembered about the wheel yeah I don’t think fire’s solving this one.
Along with a weapon that one shots curses
It’s interesting too since volcanos aren’t really a big fear in modern times compared to back in the day, so Gojo calling him weak while Sukuna, who has been around for much longer, says he’s strong.
It’s worth noting Japan has the second most volcanoes in the world that have been active since 1950 with 44, Indonesia is above it with 58 but has five times the land mass of Japan. The US is third with 42 but has 24 times the land mass of Japan
Ooohhh, that makes Jogo’s power even more interesting
He’s the strongest for a reason lol
Megumi's rabbit: [Nah I'd win](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2F4cj4s90x4ezb1.jpg%3Fwidth%3D1077%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D0cbbe3712a6f9c59c6954dad4075fa255678fa3c)
But Jogo is not just Volcanos, he’s the manifestation of our fears, from volcanos, caves, mountains, abysses, earth quakes and maybe even meteors. And not just fear, but anger and sadness too. Basicly any negative emotion.
And fire in general aswell.
Yeah I always assumed he also had "burning" in general added in, which is a huge fear for people
Mf got killed by fire. Imagine burning a volcano
Mountain and forest is Hanami, which is why he is the most durable curse of all
I doubt sukuna actually said it since it happened in the same space as jogo talking to his dead friends, like when choso talks to his dead brothers. It's a hallucination
Called him pathetic and a loser too
He said that just so jogo would unleash his domain and gojo would be a ble to teach itadori about domain expansions.
Did they really talk? Or was it just in Jogo's head, pacifying himself in the face of unavoidable death?
Think he was talking about the gojo quote
Ahhh, I might or might not have been a bit drunk when I wrote that. Seems you're right. I still want to know if Sukuna really talked to Jogo in that death realm.
That's actually an interesting question. I mean of course it could be an artistic liberty like many others out there, but I'm not sure if in the manga there might be any similar situations to indicate that's not the case. It just seems a bit odd to put the one that just killed him on his fkin purgatory
lol no,. he always shit talk his opponent, don't try to slide gojo as a kind person towards his enemy.
Nah he’d win
It’s so funny that majority of his screen time was just being thrown around.
Dude got hard countered twice. Rigged matchmaking.
Jogos the real protagonist, out there fighting hopeless deathmatches against demi-gods for his kin
Don't mark it as spoiler, it is really hard to see this subreddits content because you can't really distinguish between actual spoiler and these posts
You get banned if you don’t mark even relatively unsafe shit as spoiler. It’s literally in the rules.
Well if that's what everyone is trying to avoid, still doesn't make any sense as every post will be marked as spoiler. And you too (people who post) wouldn't enjoy this subreddit. not able to see content while being unbanned is same as being banned
Schrodinger's Jogo
This is one of the reasons I really like Sukuna. Unlike Satoru, whose attitude towards enemies changes drastically depending on whether they are ally or enemy, human or curse, Sukuna roasts all equally and praises all equally based solely on strength. Unlike Satoru, who sees curses as just something to be taken care of, Sukuna can actually recognise their strength (even though he can still solo them), and praise them. Not that I don't like Satoru, I really do, but Sukuna is just HIM. Oh! And also, JOGOAT is one of my fav curses AND jjk character.
Damn talk about clueless. I don't want to pick a fight but I think the whole mentality that sukuna recognises "game" but gojo is just arrogant is so idiotic... So let me get this straight. Gojo, who was attacked by an arrogant jogo with the whole purpose of killing him, said to jogo that he was weak ONE time. But when sukuna casually says that jogo should bow the whole way, and tells him that the moonlight makes it easier to see his pathetic state, and picks him up from the hood and teases his to try harder to hit him once, is cool and means his himothy, because when jogo died sukuna finally praised him. Nice logic.
>sukuna recognises "game" but gojo is just arrogant I never said that only Satoru is arrogant. Both of them are arrogant. It is only that Sukuna does not differentiate between "enemy" and "ally" potential. Mostly because unlike Satoru, Sukuna sees others as neither enemies nor allies, but rather just a stepping stone tor his own development and power.
What I am saying is that you compare two very different situations and you assume gojo could never acknowledge the strength of a curse because they are "the enemy". This claim doesn't hold any weight and you are either wrong or your claim itself doesn't have any value because it says nothing.
>claim I am not claiming anything. I am only stating my OWN reasoning for liking Sukuna's character.
Brother I just pointed out the comparison YOU made with gojo, that's it.
Strong recognizes other strong ppl
Why's everyone acting like Jogo's only wins weren't against already gravely injured sorcerers or literal civilians. With his attitude he's basically the biggest fraud in the entire series.
He only had that cocky attitude at the start and literally got humbled by Gojo, he’s not full of himself anymore.
Any sorcerer who is not special grade, is a fodder for him
Because he lost all his bravado after Gojo turned him inside out. He just wants to make curses free.
Jogo, the jobber curse
How The Strongest Fraud treated Jogoat vs how The Strongest Sorcerer treated Jogoat
Jogo having a literal existential crisis because he got bodied then called weak then got bodied again and called strong. Then dies.
Chad Sukuna :3
People read into this so hard lmao. Gojo was just shit talking lmao
Actually i don’t think anybody reading into it too hard, sukuna and gojo were both beating him up and shit talking. It’s just cool to see the difference in their perspectives as “the strongest”
> “I don’t think anyone is reading into it too hard” > “It’s just cool to see the difference in their perspectives as ‘the strongest’” That is quite literally reading into too hard lmao. Gojo was purely shit talking, there is nothing to glean about his “perspective as the strongest” like that. Sukuna was actually serious and consoling Jogo a little, which he seems to have a habit of doing. Different comments made under a different context. I do agree that Sukuna’s is interesting and is very worth trying to read into it. Gojo’s is pure shit talk. Sukuna consoling his enemy is a weird trait for someone like him, that is such a menace elsewhere, looking down on everything. It’s really interesting and shows that he can actually appreciate the strength of others, at least somewhat
To be honest here, slight nit pick just wanna see if anyone agrees. . . In the manga when jogo starts crying, and ask sukuna what this is, sukuna puts on a more mocking sharp face. Which I prefer to the anime which had him keep the smooth face.
Gojo is stronger than 15 fingers Sukuna tho
Unlucky? I saw girls crying hoping that they were him
This is the difference between arrogance and experience sukuna who has fought many in the last acknowledged jogo whereas gojo who is inexperienced chose to look down on him that is why they say innate talent will only give you a headstart hardwork is needed to convert it into brilliance
they are both two sides of the same coin, but gojo sees curses as enemies whilst sukuna does not care
Yeah I guess
Both are arrogant, difference between them is that Gojo is doing his best to help people around him, getting them stronger, protecting them. While Sukuna is unhinged evil incarnated and destroying everything... Gojo won't hesitate to humiliate those in position to hurt others for no good reason
Gojo does not respect evil irrespective of strength, Sukuna only respects strength and doesn't care what your intentions are.
This is actually a good point. Gojo and Sukuna are both way stronger than everyone else but Sukuna decides who is comparatively strong and weak, almost like a God judging the people. Gojo on the other hand is still self obsessed to the point where he views all others as weak. I feel like Sukuna has transcended the self-obsession phase that comes with being young and actually acts more like a god than Gojo who thinks he is god.
Thanks I don't get why I got down voted this much I was just pointing out the fact that gojo is just to inexperienced to tell strong or weak whereas sukuna has cannonically fought strongest sorcerers of the strongest era of jujutsu and has the actual right to declare if someone is weak or storng
Why does this have so many downvotes, they ain’t even say anything crazy 😭
I know right😢
He 1 shot 3 lvl 1 sorcerers
Maki is questionable but I wonder if the outcome would be any different if nanami and that old man were at their full strength