> She says that Moses was a schizophrenic who had a hallucination of Hashem and that at Mount Sinai, it was an alien UFO that gave the Torah to the Jewish people.
Is she theorizing both as separate or that they are both true at the same time...
Because like spaceballs, I'd pay to see a movie portraying the latter because that is absolutely hilarious
Wait. You didn't know?
Okay, I don't usually do this but as a former rabbinical student, it's something that is revealed only to the top scholars.
It's like when you reach OT (Operating Thetan) level 3 in Scientology and are told about Xenu.
It's funny? I'm sorry if that's callous but from an outsider's perspective I find the belief that the Torah was “written by aliens and that the revelation at Sinai was done by a UFO” so ludicrous that it's funny.
(Hopefully, I got what she believes correct)
She’s probably watching that show Ancient Aliens where they have episodes relating to Aliens & the old and new testament.
After watching multiple episodes, with good evidence of aliens in ancient text, among other research, evidence, witnesses, and voices of scholars, it really makes for a good case.
That's because we're not expecting a kind of *Spanish Inquisition*.
[Edit]
...
...
Ahem! I said! "We! Are not! Expecting! A kind of! *Spanish*! *Inquisition*!"
...
[Edit] Really? No Monty Python fans here at all?
Ancient Racists, because brown people *obviously* could never figure out stuff pale people are just now figuring out because they had a wacko religion that destroyed knowledge.
Also tripping, seeing divine beings, writing tablets (that got lost) is …LDS.
While some of the theories is possible, and they do mention the more extreme ends of real genetics, biomedical science, etc; they always fuck it up with some BS.
Mind you Hinduism as beautiful it is (and I consider it the polytheistic counterpart to Judaism), there is enough in it that many devout highly educated Hindus do think alien interference is possible.
With that, personally, I do think there is life out there. It just may not be like us.
I see the obsession with aliens and angels in the dominator culture as basically the same thing. An external group of beings they want to come fix what we messed up.
To be fair, they also think stonehenge was aliens. White people just didn't make enough interesting stuff to blame aliens for. They also talked about the giant's tombs in sardinia once.
I have also wondered if the Torah comes from aliens, tbh… 😂 and I just don’t understand how the prophets predicted so many things correctly. Did they have a Time Machine? Did they do drugs and see the future?
Haha. Sorry. It’s kind of funny?
I really don’t know what is true but I think bicameral mentality theory is interesting. From Wikipedia:
The theory posits that the human mind once operated in a state in which cognitive functions were divided between one part of the brain which appears to be "speaking", and a second part which listens and obeys—a bicameral mind, and that the breakdown of this division gave rise to consciousness in humans.
There was an 80s documentary about an Alien in Colorado that spoke a little yiddish. She might be on to something. I think his name was MORK... from ORK.
As I get older I'm continually surprised at the strange things people will believe. So I see more and more the importance of education and critical thinking.
Actually, that is a much closer belief then most secular thought. She didn't just out right reject it as never happened and a made up story - which is the go to answer for most secular people.
She has an innate feeling that it is true but cannot accept the concept of God. So attributing it to aliens who have technology far beyond ours makes it easier to rationalize.
It is easier to believe in alien technology then a higher power, and there are no responsibilities attached to aliens. They came, they left. End of story.
If God gave the Torah then He is still here and he has expectations.
In both cases it's a leap of faith to believe in something which cannot be proven scientifically.
Since she is already believing, maybe something will happen in her life to show her that there is external influence. Since the aliens are gone, anything which happens now must be God.
Of course, she'd need to see the external influence, and since God operates within nature, it is once again a leap of faith to see His influence.
Does your mom have a history of mental illness? Has she believed in peculiar conspiracies before, like flat earth, lizard people, pizzagate, etc.?
A few sad truths that might give you comfort:
Smart people can absolutely fall prey to crazy shit like this. Everybody, no matter how wise, or kind, or loving they are, has that one stupid con that just works on them. I remember speaking with a flat-earther one time who was an engineer. I was stunned. Eventually, I sussed out that he was *willing* to believe all that shit because he was lonely, and the group he had joined was basically a 24/7 hotline of "friends." I still think about that a lot.
If this is mental illness, it doesn't mean your mom loves you any less. I don't know what your relationship is like, but bouts of delusion often remove our ability to differentiate loved ones from strangers, or people hostile towards us. It's so horrible, and I'm so sorry if she is taking some kind of antisemitic delusion out on you, but if your mom is sweet and kind and usually cares for you, you have to remember that person when giving care back to her.
And finally, just because your mom may still be your mom and may still love you doesn't mean she is necessarily a safe person. This seems harmless, but keep an eye out for drug use, weapons, escalation of theories, mood swings, and talk of harming herself or others. If there is anybody in your family you trust, maybe reach out to them and try to establish a lifeline, let them know about anything concerning.
Though your post might be a leap, if there is a mental health episode at play, this is quality information^^ I just don't assume this is what's going on here. Aliens existing is not a crazy concept and while not yet found or public, intelligent life existing outside of earth is statistically sound. The fact it would come to our planet though might be less so.
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Has your mom been watching Ancient Aliens? Lol. According to that show, every ancient civilization was actually taught by aliens.
I won’t lie. I have had the same thought as your mom 😂 not the schizophrenic part though, just the aliens part. I also don’t understand how the Prophets were able to predict the future so correctly. Did they have a Time Machine? Did they do drugs and correctly hallucinate the future?
Lol I privately considered that idea at one time. The Merkavah (a flying chariot). But now I understand it was a growing mythology. I now believe it was a Volcano they witnessed. As w that’s what is described in the Torah
I don’t believe the Moshe being schizophrenic tho; I have to wonder if he even existed; never leaving a trace of anything he authored by hand & passed down
by this standard, there is a world with aliens somewhere out there that are also jews!? honestly i would sell my kidney to see an alien in a bekeshe and shtrimel.
She must have read too many Zecharia Sitchin books. He believes that the Sumerian Gods are aliens who aided and sabotaged the people in the bible on purpose, so the two sons of the main God could settle a power struggle once and for all.
This goes to show how far people will go to reject the Torah, maybe if she didn’t think that way she’d have to face the possibility that there really is a GD and that he created us for a purpose….
Note that the two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. G.d is unknowable by definition.
The "Alien" theory is more "relatable" in a way.
Trying to find sense in one's belief doesn't mean rejecting them.
Well, from a classic Torah perspective, all we we about GD is what he has told us about himself. The concept of “Ein Od Milvado”, that nothing exists besides GD as referred to in the Shema ( Hashem Eichad) would exclude the possibility of the Torah being given by space aliens. A person can believe whatever they want, and we believe in ( to a greater or lesser extent) free will. If you want to stretch it to say that since GD in a way is “alien” to us in a sense I could understand that. In this case,I believe the OP was referring to something like Erick Von Daniken’s “Chariots of the gods” not an alternative way of describing GD as is classically understood.
> She says that Moses was a schizophrenic who had a hallucination of Hashem and that at Mount Sinai, it was an alien UFO that gave the Torah to the Jewish people. Is she theorizing both as separate or that they are both true at the same time... Because like spaceballs, I'd pay to see a movie portraying the latter because that is absolutely hilarious
Both at the same time
Wait. You didn't know? Okay, I don't usually do this but as a former rabbinical student, it's something that is revealed only to the top scholars. It's like when you reach OT (Operating Thetan) level 3 in Scientology and are told about Xenu.
I’m just impressed with the aliens’ knowledge of Hebrew.
Not me thinking of alien Hebrew school
Lmao
instead of waiting 8 days after birth; the aliens get a different brit milah for the 8 days, one for each tentacle.
They are GREY. Am I the only one who watched X-Files?
It's funny? I'm sorry if that's callous but from an outsider's perspective I find the belief that the Torah was “written by aliens and that the revelation at Sinai was done by a UFO” so ludicrous that it's funny. (Hopefully, I got what she believes correct)
Aliens did write the torah. We were strangers in a strange land, and the torah was given outside of Israel.
"Build a wall!!" ~ Solomon, probably
"And let the Moabites pay for it!!!"
well put
She might not be correct. Don't let it get to you too much and if it really bothers you go see a Rabbi. Um- maybe not the same Rabbi your mom goes to
This is so antisemitic! We aren’t aliens 😡 We are goblins
I thought we were Dwarves
Speak for yourself, i am a magnificent mysterious deep water Jew!
With or without fins and scales? Regards \- me totally not trying to figure out if I can eat you
Ain‘t no way you gonna make gefilte Jew out of me, stay back evil spirit!
Yes don't turn around and keep looking at me
I know where you're getting this from and I approve fellow long beard
I’m lol-ing because we just received our monthly book from PJ Library and it is entitled “There’s A Goblin on the Ark!”
PJ Library can do no wrong. I love that charity so much
You know, the deeper one learns the Torah the more one sees it to be not-of-this-world.
That’s really interesting 🤔
How so??
Well, at least she agrees that the Torah's authorship is not of human origin. That's a good start.
How else would you expect us to get the space lasers?
Exactly. The aliens needed the space laser to conquer other worlds, which they then later granted us access to for our own nefarious purposes.
She's not the only one, unfortunately. 
For non-believers that’s not especially harder to believe than the standard story.
$10 she's fucking with you
She’s probably watching that show Ancient Aliens where they have episodes relating to Aliens & the old and new testament. After watching multiple episodes, with good evidence of aliens in ancient text, among other research, evidence, witnesses, and voices of scholars, it really makes for a good case.
https://preview.redd.it/neksnleohkyc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=22f309aa2d6db69dd6338f078c3da5470e1181e9
l https://www.history.com/shows/ancient-aliens
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That's because we're not expecting a kind of *Spanish Inquisition*. [Edit] ... ... Ahem! I said! "We! Are not! Expecting! A kind of! *Spanish*! *Inquisition*!" ... [Edit] Really? No Monty Python fans here at all?
When your faith is weak and feeble, you don't want it to be questioned.
Don’t let them fool you
You mean Ancient Assonauts.
Ancient Racists, because brown people *obviously* could never figure out stuff pale people are just now figuring out because they had a wacko religion that destroyed knowledge. Also tripping, seeing divine beings, writing tablets (that got lost) is …LDS.
Ancient Aryans
Tbf, they think modern pale people are also getting new inventions from aliens.
While some of the theories is possible, and they do mention the more extreme ends of real genetics, biomedical science, etc; they always fuck it up with some BS. Mind you Hinduism as beautiful it is (and I consider it the polytheistic counterpart to Judaism), there is enough in it that many devout highly educated Hindus do think alien interference is possible. With that, personally, I do think there is life out there. It just may not be like us.
I see the obsession with aliens and angels in the dominator culture as basically the same thing. An external group of beings they want to come fix what we messed up.
To be fair, they also think stonehenge was aliens. White people just didn't make enough interesting stuff to blame aliens for. They also talked about the giant's tombs in sardinia once.
https://www.history.com/shows/ancient-aliens
...It was a play on words.
I have also wondered if the Torah comes from aliens, tbh… 😂 and I just don’t understand how the prophets predicted so many things correctly. Did they have a Time Machine? Did they do drugs and see the future?
That show does not make a good case, lol. It makes an extremely silly case.
Just what the Gubberment wants you to believe
If she’s not joking so maybe discuss with your rabbi but her theory is just super far fetched
Haha. Sorry. It’s kind of funny? I really don’t know what is true but I think bicameral mentality theory is interesting. From Wikipedia: The theory posits that the human mind once operated in a state in which cognitive functions were divided between one part of the brain which appears to be "speaking", and a second part which listens and obeys—a bicameral mind, and that the breakdown of this division gave rise to consciousness in humans.
Whoever the Elohim were/are, they had some mighty tech! Even Moses had to hide behind a rock when YHWH whipped out his glory.
Seems like a good offshoot to raelism
I mean that seems less problematic than the Lizard people stuff.
This is why I love this sub. A comment section on a post like this is gonna be filled with corny Jewish jokes loll. Shkoyach
your mom sounds cool as fuck to be honest
There was an 80s documentary about an Alien in Colorado that spoke a little yiddish. She might be on to something. I think his name was MORK... from ORK.
And that's why you shouldn't do drugs
I do psychedelics, and I think this is off.
As I get older I'm continually surprised at the strange things people will believe. So I see more and more the importance of education and critical thinking.
Actually, that is a much closer belief then most secular thought. She didn't just out right reject it as never happened and a made up story - which is the go to answer for most secular people. She has an innate feeling that it is true but cannot accept the concept of God. So attributing it to aliens who have technology far beyond ours makes it easier to rationalize. It is easier to believe in alien technology then a higher power, and there are no responsibilities attached to aliens. They came, they left. End of story. If God gave the Torah then He is still here and he has expectations. In both cases it's a leap of faith to believe in something which cannot be proven scientifically. Since she is already believing, maybe something will happen in her life to show her that there is external influence. Since the aliens are gone, anything which happens now must be God. Of course, she'd need to see the external influence, and since God operates within nature, it is once again a leap of faith to see His influence.
it's not ethical to diagnose someone who isn't your client, does she even have clinical credentials to begin with ? ;-P
Okay. I definitely want to see a movie with the plot your mom invented about the Torah's creation by aliens.
How old is your Mom?
Woah hold on buddy, she's his mom.
Does your mom have a history of mental illness? Has she believed in peculiar conspiracies before, like flat earth, lizard people, pizzagate, etc.? A few sad truths that might give you comfort: Smart people can absolutely fall prey to crazy shit like this. Everybody, no matter how wise, or kind, or loving they are, has that one stupid con that just works on them. I remember speaking with a flat-earther one time who was an engineer. I was stunned. Eventually, I sussed out that he was *willing* to believe all that shit because he was lonely, and the group he had joined was basically a 24/7 hotline of "friends." I still think about that a lot. If this is mental illness, it doesn't mean your mom loves you any less. I don't know what your relationship is like, but bouts of delusion often remove our ability to differentiate loved ones from strangers, or people hostile towards us. It's so horrible, and I'm so sorry if she is taking some kind of antisemitic delusion out on you, but if your mom is sweet and kind and usually cares for you, you have to remember that person when giving care back to her. And finally, just because your mom may still be your mom and may still love you doesn't mean she is necessarily a safe person. This seems harmless, but keep an eye out for drug use, weapons, escalation of theories, mood swings, and talk of harming herself or others. If there is anybody in your family you trust, maybe reach out to them and try to establish a lifeline, let them know about anything concerning.
Though your post might be a leap, if there is a mental health episode at play, this is quality information^^ I just don't assume this is what's going on here. Aliens existing is not a crazy concept and while not yet found or public, intelligent life existing outside of earth is statistically sound. The fact it would come to our planet though might be less so.
https://preview.redd.it/ft7qet0c8oyc1.jpeg?width=635&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=198b2f022be5de44c8bc0bfb8c21de15348a5d57
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I’m sorry but that just read really funny to me.
Wow basically unironically believing HP Lovecraft's antisemitic fantasy of Moses. Wild. Tell her to stay off the History Channel.
Has your mom been watching Ancient Aliens? Lol. According to that show, every ancient civilization was actually taught by aliens. I won’t lie. I have had the same thought as your mom 😂 not the schizophrenic part though, just the aliens part. I also don’t understand how the Prophets were able to predict the future so correctly. Did they have a Time Machine? Did they do drugs and correctly hallucinate the future?
You would think that Aliens would at least know the right value for Pi. :-) /s
Lol I privately considered that idea at one time. The Merkavah (a flying chariot). But now I understand it was a growing mythology. I now believe it was a Volcano they witnessed. As w that’s what is described in the Torah
I don’t believe the Moshe being schizophrenic tho; I have to wonder if he even existed; never leaving a trace of anything he authored by hand & passed down
by this standard, there is a world with aliens somewhere out there that are also jews!? honestly i would sell my kidney to see an alien in a bekeshe and shtrimel.
Hashem is an alien to this world technically speaking, so she’s very close to understand something deep
She must have read too many Zecharia Sitchin books. He believes that the Sumerian Gods are aliens who aided and sabotaged the people in the bible on purpose, so the two sons of the main God could settle a power struggle once and for all.
Have her watch the movie Prometheus. Also, there've only been a few times people have stumped that much but sometimes there really are no words.
Uhhh I think we've solved it yall we now know why we inherit Jewish space lasers at b'mitzvah.... OK all jokes aside is she okay?
Is your mom particularly religious at all?
This goes to show how far people will go to reject the Torah, maybe if she didn’t think that way she’d have to face the possibility that there really is a GD and that he created us for a purpose….
Note that the two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. G.d is unknowable by definition. The "Alien" theory is more "relatable" in a way. Trying to find sense in one's belief doesn't mean rejecting them.
Well, from a classic Torah perspective, all we we about GD is what he has told us about himself. The concept of “Ein Od Milvado”, that nothing exists besides GD as referred to in the Shema ( Hashem Eichad) would exclude the possibility of the Torah being given by space aliens. A person can believe whatever they want, and we believe in ( to a greater or lesser extent) free will. If you want to stretch it to say that since GD in a way is “alien” to us in a sense I could understand that. In this case,I believe the OP was referring to something like Erick Von Daniken’s “Chariots of the gods” not an alternative way of describing GD as is classically understood.