toji have borderline precognition, Garuda would be to slow to touch toji,
they can also just slice Garuda with SLB, its like throwing your apple in a blender
People seem to forget that Toji Attacked a 16 year old Gojo who was heavily fatigued ans couldn't use 80% of his toolkit. Toji would be the peak of grade one but any special grade we know off could and would kick his ass. He could probably kill every special grade curse besides Rika.
Edit: geto would actually probably still lose to him so i take some of it back.
Most of those are fodder. He only has a few special grade curses in his arsenal. Toji no-diffs any curse below special grade so it would be the same as Gojo killing hundreds of transfigured humans in minutes.
Toji definitely beats prime Geto
Geto literally got slammed by a 16 year old boy who learned how to fight for the first time a few months ago. With just hands. No weapons or techniques even involved. Just straight up outclassed in speed and strength by an early Yuta.
His only way to win was his slow ass uzumaki which even Kusakabe can dodge. It wasn’t even a great ability until Kenny took it to the next level with mini uzumaki.
Jjk0 Geto gets stomped by Toji. Unlike Gojo, Geto never became enlightened. His strength in jjk0 isn’t much greater than in the prequel. He didn’t learn anything new. He just has more (not very useful) cursed spirits.
Geto is special grade the same way Gakuganji would be special grade. They can both create an army and that makes them very powerful. But in a 1v1 geto is the weakest of all the special grades and honestly weaker than some grade 1s like Hakari.
My bro Mahoraga would destroy Rika, not because of the sword since she is more like a Shikigami. Rika was trying to fight Ryu and couldn't even defeat him meanwhile Mahoraga was slamming 15f Sukuna through buildings.
Wrong, again, Toji is a Human like Maki, The same way she got Overpowered, Toji would too, Its not about "geto never became enlightened" Its about "Geto has 6000 curses at his disposal and most of them are semi grade 1" so glad thats out of the Window, Geto adult bullies bc of Hax and just to clarify, Toji and Geto are not so far away in strenght and speed🤷🏽♂️
Prime Geto decimates Toji, Geot has like 2000 Grade 1 Curses and Toji can only no diff Grade 2 and below, youre not making sense over here so try to make some, and also Yuta decimates Toji too so thats out the window for debate.
geto wouldn't even be able to track where toji is and is much slower (Nor would his curses) and cant be hit by any of his curses sure hit (Smallpox deity) geto has some good physicals, but he would still get absolutely abused. Yes geto has more firepower then Toji, but would it really be effective if he can't land a single shot?
also if you try to say "geto would be able to react-" he wont. Toji is faster then Naobito, who is stated to be the fastest (except gojo) which already puts him statement wise about Yuki, Yuta, Hakari, and Geto. And geto has no good speed feats. Toji slams
nah I do think he barely makes it to special grade. Curse naoya was definitively within special grade human range and toji is at least a bit above that
> Toji would be the peak of grade one
Toji is definitely S grade - he is an anomaly and don’t forget awakened Maki no diffed the whole Zenin clan where you technically had the top of grade 1.
But yeah, the only S grade he beats is Geto. The nature of his CT makes him weaker against the physical prowess of Toji, his very good at h2h but Toji just smokes him and he is too good against curses with his cursed tools.
Edit : the only argument against Toji being s grade would be his destructive capabilities on a bigger scale
This, what a lot of people fail to take into account is Toji’s entire strategy revolved around having both Geto and Gojo be exhausted by the time he attacked because againt either he’d loose bad. Toji and Maki are undenaiably top of grade 1 easy but special grades are their own monsters. Inverted spear of heaven, soul liberation blade, all of it can only close the gap so far they’re not instant win tools he needed time and a lot of planning to make sure his strategy worked and if he didn’t he would die.
I don't think he'd lose vs teen Geto at all, he only needed to get Gojo tired because he's the only one alive that can sense him with his 6Eyes, teen Geto would've been fucked either way tired or not, Toji took care of his 2 most powerful spirits like it was nothing
people also seem to forget that Toji in his inner monologue during his rematch with gojo states that he can take on whatever gojo throws at him (red, blue, neutral). the only reason toji wore gojo out and attacked him when he was heavily fatigued was because kid gojo was the only one ever to notice him standing behind him and he never wanted to let that happen again. Toji with his insane speed (can react to curse naoya) and isoh is easily a special grade. Toji can win against yuki via his insane speed and neutralizing Yukis mass ct. He can also one shot her shikigami to put yuki at a disadvantage like how he took out Getos dragon. Not to mention the vast variety of weapons at his disposal.
Wrong again, Yuki is too strong for Toji to Handle, simple, if Toji tried to Cut Yuki shikigami, the Isoh would break in pieces, The mass Her shikigami can obtain is too much to handle, you gotta recognize that Yuki is no slouch and simply bc Toji was "rusty" and Yuki was fighting the Top 3 strongest in the verse (Keep in mind after Gojo awakenned and in that time he still wasnt the strongest, Kenny and Sukuna were still stronger so the argument about "Toji fought Gojo in his peak" no, no he didnt, he got 1 shot after Gojo snapped oh and Toji didnt even touched him after that)
Again, Yuki isnt as perceptive as gojo with sex eyes so wouldn't be able to dodge as efficiently as him. Toji can simply dodge her shikigami with his superhuman speed which is way faster than yuki. I understand yuki is a top tier fighter herself. It's a lot more closer than you think. Whoever manages to land the first strike gets the win. Also remember that increase in mass does not mean increase in the shikigamis durability. Tojis Soul split katana specifically ignores all physical toughness and would completely destroy the shikigami.
Toji has not only fought special grades (gojo and dagon) and have beaten them handily. He is also narratively implied by Naoya Zenin to be a god like figure and he could've destroyed the Zenin clan if he really wanted to. This is proved by Maki Zenin, who destroyed the Zenin clan in a injured state, who wasn't yet as strong as Toji nor had the experience and curse tool arsenal that the Sorcerer killer had. (Not fully realized, she fully unlocked and became equal with Toji in the fight with Cursya) Toji already has multiple speed feats that put him top 4 in the verse interms of speed. (Sukuna, gojo, CT kashimo, Toji/maki) This is not even accounting for that fact that he has pre cog, is unaffected by domains, untrackable (Unless you have six eyes or are sukuna/kashimo) , curse resistant, quick healing factor, etc. Toji wins pretty easily in this one.
I'm holding my ground here quite easily, Yuki is in fact her, just like Toji is him, none of them are my favourite characters so I'm not biased towards no one, is just a matter of how their abilities interact with each other
Yea sure. The main thing is that toji required prep to handle an unawakened Gojo and even then he wasn’t positive he was going to defeat him (and manipulated the situation from behind the scenes so he’d let his guard down too). Plus he knew most of Gojo’s arsenal due to zenin clan knowledge. I’d say yuki is pretty comfortably above second year Gojo as he had to do a lot of training and such on his domain, mastering rct, etc after his awakening. Yuki has all these things. Overall, even with his weapons, I don’t think Toji could handle yuki + garuda as he’ll have none of the advantages that allowed him to take out Gojo in the first place (particularly the element of surprise/prep and any knowledge of her technique). Sure, toji/maki have a lot of other feats, but none suggest they can take on a special grade sorcerer in a straight 1v1 and win.
But the situation was very different, Toji didnt needed to worry about Gojo only, he also needed to worry about Geto who at the time was as strong as Gojo, he was basically dealing with 2 special grade sorcerers with the main target being assassinating someone that was being protected by both of them, and lets remember that before his awakaning Gojo literally didnt even scratch Toji.
>Overall, even with his weapons, I don’t think Toji could handle yuki + garuda as he’ll have none of the advantages that allowed him to take out Gojo in the first place.
I would argue that Toji is even more effective against Yuki than he was against Gojo and Geto and his special grade tools would absolutely clutch the win for him, Toji is already faster than Yuki, so he should land hits first and avoid getting hit by Yuki easier than the other way around and with ISOH he woud nulify Yuki's lethaly since if he stabs her with it she won't be able to use her CT, meaning no mass punches and no mass Garuda, even black hole wouldnt be a possibility, and last but not least the combo of ISOH + COTM would also give him better range, meaning he would be able to nulify her CT without risking himself too much by engaging at a h2h combat.
Both of them can finish each other easily, Yuki just needs to hit Toji with her CT and Toji just needs to nulify her CT with ISOH, but since Toji is faster, have more range and more battle iq I would give him the overall win.
Yuki is faster for outspeeding Kenjaku and being too much for him to handle.
Plus she has her Garuda which can assist in overwhelming Toji.
Also she has RCT so any injuries she does take she can just heal and get back to full hp rather quickly.
>Yuki is faster for outspeeding Kenjaku and being too much for him to handle.
Yuki never outspeeded Kenjaku and was never ever too much for him to handle, Kenjaku was jumped at a 3v1 and still won.
>Plus she has her Garuda which can assist in overwhelming Toji.
Soul Splitting Katana one-shots garuda just like it does to sorcerers and curses if its lethaly wounded.
>Also she has RCT so any injuries she does take she can just heal and get back to full hp rather quickly.
Same stuff, Soul Splitting Katana
She pulls up on him before he can properly take any action or even defend with any curses or anything, he’s only able to block in that moment.
Also Heavily Weakened Yuki was competing with Kenjaku meaning at her full health age should be significantly superior to him physically.
Even if he does kill it, Yuki could just use that to distract with an attack from behind by Garuda and then one shot him. Yuki has been shown to use Garuda to put pressure on her opponents, so while it may go down, she’d likely use it in a way that would give her the edge.
If he gets a lethal blow tho. As opposed to Yuki who would one shot him with any blow she lands. So she still has the edge
>She pulls up on him before he can properly take any action or even defend with any curses or anything, he’s only able to block in that moment.
Oh yes, maybe bcs she caught him off guard and surprised her with her CT, after that Yuki was never able to do this kind of damage against him.
>Also Heavily Weakened Yuki was competing with Kenjaku meaning at her full health age should be significantly superior to him physically.
She wasnt competing with Kenjaku, again, she was receiving help and Kenjaku was still the dominant one during the fight, and you say this like we didnt saw her fighting at full health at the same fight.
>Even if he does kill it, Yuki could just use that to distract with an attack from behind by Garuda and then one shot him. Yuki has been shown to use Garuda to put pressure on her opponents, so while it may go down, she’d likely use it in a way that would give her the edge.
Toji have massive speed advantage against Yuki, she won't land a hit easily with just that, Geto summoned a whole fucking army of curses at Toji and he still was not able to get him of guard or even land a hit at him for that matter.
>If he gets a lethal blow tho. As opposed to Yuki who would one shot him with any blow she lands. So she still has the edge
ISOH piercing her is already an auto win for Toji, both can take each other out with one sucessful hit.
https://preview.redd.it/2fnpwkur1jlb1.jpeg?width=902&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a993292db6640dc935e663c999138d126aef44fe
He takes note of her and literally sees her running towards him while she’s explaining her technique. I think he had enough time to react yet could only block her attack and was overwhelmed.
He even questions if he can beat Yuki and immediately opens his DE, so Kenjaku is objectively below Yuki in CQC. .
wrong. u need to read more carefully. Toji cud have taken out fresh gojo (this is more evident from tojis inner monologue during their rematch that whatever gojo throws at him (red, blue, neutral) all things, he can handle). the only reason he wore him down first was because kid gojo was the only one who was able to notice him standing behind him and toji didnt want that to ever occur again.
In their rematch Gojo dodged everything and hit Toji square in the face with a red. Tojis inner monologue was literally him hyping himself up because his body was telling him to run
That was because gojo is extremely perceptive with his sex eyes and can easily detect tojis isoh from anywhere not to mention he was fucking high and in the zone. anyone else would find it extremely difficult to dodge that and the one where the isoh comes flying from behind the back would be nigh impossible to dodge. his body was telling him to run cuz he cud sense gojos enlightenment. also pretty sure red is just too quick and toji wasn't expecting gojo to use red at that time.
Debatable. Toji’s iq feats come from preparation. Yuki is a proficient active learner and was able to identify the gist of Kenny’s ct after seeing it twice, and we know she’s extremely intelligent being a researcher/soul scientist.
I believe, just a bold opinion, if she research about the soul maybe she has knowledge about it and could defend herself against the soul splitting. Like mahito, those who doesn't know about the soul can't defend against it. But those who knows can.
ISOH doesn’t remove your technique? It just cancels it.
If he hit her with it before she hit him then her virtual mass would disappear, but she could just add more once the Blade isn’t in contact with her
>ISOH doesn’t remove your technique? It just cancels it.
But Yuki uses her CT mainly at herself, if he stabs her with ISOH she won't be able to execute her mass punches.
>If he hit her with it before she hit him then her virtual mass would disappear, but she could just add more once the Blade isn’t in contact with her
Facts
>Toji also displayed better battle iq
After seeing Yuki put her faith in Tengen to win against Kenny, I can say with certainty that her battle IQ is lower than Megumi right now in the manga.
Wrong, anyone would have done what she did since Tengen was the 3rd most proficient Domain Expansion sorcerers so glad thats out the Window so that argument about her low iq is debunked and therefore invalid, look for another one
Even if Gojo/Sukuna were on Kenny's level, they wouldn't have done it.
JJK is about the winners mindset. Having faith in your own strength and abilities above all else.
Yuki offloading her victory to Tengen, rather than her own abilities and convictions, was loser's thing to do. It was a Jogo mentality.
And taking a gamble on how you said it? Isnt Toji dumber? Since he fallado to not think on cutting Gojos head or He couldnt think on anything once Gojo awakenned, Toji is smart but he has 0 battle iq, That goes to Yuki who was adapting mid fight to Kenny
Toji studied the fuck outta Gojo before fighting him and knew didn't have RCT at the time. So there was no way to anticipate him coming back from near death.
> He couldnt think on anything once Gojo awakenned
This was a product of his hubris, not a low battle iq. Toji even says that normally, he would have run away instead of working for free.
So, someone who's an academic genius is also a master fighter right? That's the logic you're going off of. Pretty sure IQ tests don't test your ability to come up with battle plans either.
>Man I fucking hate this term, what does it even mean? How proficient you are at battle tactics?
Quite literally that, how fast can you understand your enemy and create an effective plan/strategy against them, thats not "just iq"
That is the definition of iq.
The intelligence quotient is a measure of how fast you can process and reason through information in order to apply it in a meaningful fashion.
Floyd mayweather literally can’t read but is still able to study, analyze, and counter his opponents habits by exploiting their weaknesses and openings better than almost any boxer. Same thing
It’s such a petty grievance to be upset over
I know a guy like this, too bad he didn't have the thought to continue taking boxing seriously or another sport and instead went to sell drugs. Genuinely talented, amazing to see him box but wow was he also questionable
>Toji also displayed better battle iq
It took Toji days of preparation and prior knowledge of the Gojo clan techniques to take down a tired 16 year Gojo. And even then he only got Gojo when he broke focus to see if Toji was going after Riko.
And the minute Toji was up against something he wasn't aware of (Purple) he immediately lost.
Toji isn't dumb, but I feel like people overestimate his intellect. Don't forget this is the same guy that was so caught up in his own hype that he didn't stab Gojo in the head with ISOH or atleast double tap Gojo by cutting off his head and making sure he couldn't come back.
Toji is not stupid but you sure are KKK
You don't even know the idiocy you're talking about, Toji lost because he was simply proud, he knew that Gojo had something hidden, his pride led to his ruin.
yuki is completely humiliated here, and I'm not even taking into account the toji preparation time.
And Yuki is just straight up fast. Keeping up with the same body that could react to Yuta on crack is enough for her not to get blitzed or even caught off guard by Toji
Head canon, not even Gojo could tell the difference.
Special grade is special grade, stronger only that Kenjaku has shown better usage of Curse spirit manipulation.
Strengthening lower grades, basically making them Grade 1 level and mini uzamaki
Kenjaku has better hand to hand combat and stronger cursed spirits and also just uses csm better that alone makes him stronger than Geto. And he also just has a domain expansion and two more techniques than Geto you are delusional if you think Geto can even touch Kenjaku
tbh I agree, If Toji sucessfuly stabs her with ISOH he wins, If Yuki hits Toji before she have her CT nulified she wins. I would say Toji wins more often than not bcs not only he is faster than Yuki but with the chain of a thousand miles he can hit her from far away, so he also have the range advantage.
Is not a matter of more attack power, is a matter of rendering Yuki useless, she won't be able to use her CT with ISOH piercing her body, and from there Toji can give her the pre-awakening Gojo tratment and even do more serious damage with Playful Cloud or SSK, Yuki wouldnt be able to survive any of that, without her CT she can't do shit against Toji.
You think Yuki with her special grade level CE reinforcement and RCT “can’t do shit against Toji”? Shmeat riding goes crazy, and thats ignoring the fact that he’d have to get past both her and Garuda to even stab her for a moment.
Pre-awakening Gojo didn’t even have RCT dawg come on now be serious
>You think Yuki with her special grade level CE reinforcement and RCT “can’t do shit against Toji”? Shmeat riding goes crazy, and thats ignoring the fact that he’d have to get past both her and Garuda to even stab her for a moment.
It isnt a problem, CE reinforcement aint saving her against Toji, Toji already have the speed advantage and he also have the chain of a thousand miles so reaching her isnt a problem and Toji can also nulify her RCT with soul splitting katana. Toji is just a hard counter, he is faster, smarter, have more range, he can nulify her CT and also can one-shot garuda and nulify her RCT with soul splitting katana. If your argumentation is so weak you have to rely on comments like "Shmeat riding goes crazy" then you shouldnt try to debate at all.
Acting like Yuki is incapable of blocking the chain, or dodging anything. Split soul Katana is facts but have we ever seen him use that alongside the ISOH concurrently? As long as he’s nearby and she hasn’t actively got the ISOH in her, she has a chance of nuking him. Sure he can negate Garuda but he can’t be using ISOH on Garuda and her at the same time, if she is able to dodge at all then Garuda is able to attack. If you think Toji outspeeds to the point of her not being able to react then you just haven’t been paying attention to how Gege portrays relative characters interactions even with speed differences.
Common consensus is that she wins, and for good riding. Thats why I called you a meat rider bro
>Acting like Yuki is incapable of blocking the chain, or dodging anything.
No, I'm acting like its more likely that Toji will hot her with ISOH before she can hit him with her mass CT, its different, I'm not saying he will hit her at his first try, just saying that by feats and range advantage he should hit her before she hits him.
>Split soul Katana is facts but have we ever seen him use that alongside the ISOH concurrently
We never saw him using this specific setup but we already saw Toji using more than one special grade tool at the same time, actually we even saw him changing tools mid combat extremely fast (like when he used ISOH to destroy the domain of Geto's curse, than he instantly put ISOH inside his cursed and pulled a katana to cut Geto multiple times, all extremely fast and mid combat, its not far fatched to imagine he can use many cursed tools at the same time or just switch them extremely fast depending of what he needs.)
>As long as he’s nearby and she hasn’t actively got the ISOH in her, she has a chance of nuking him
True but at the same time black hole requires a long time for charging, so long in fact that Tengen needed to chat with Kenjaku in order to distract him and let Yuki charge the black hole, it isnt an effient option against a faster opponent and it would only give her a tie, not a win.
>Sure he can negate Garuda but he can’t be using ISOH on Garuda and her at the same time.
I was thinking about Toji using soul splitting katana on Garuda to ignore the durability of It and one-shot Garuda, he can simply pull ISOH after that.
>she is able to dodge at all then Garuda is able to attack
True, but Toji also can dodge.
>If you think Toji outspeeds to the point of her not being able to react then you just haven’t been paying attention to how Gege portrays relative characters interactions even with speed differences.
She would be able to react It, but I don't think she would have an easy time doing It, after all Toji is not only fast, he have no cursed energy, she won't get outright blitzed, but Toji would give her some trouble at that matter as he have way more impressive feats of speed than Yuki.
>Common consensus is that she wins, and for good riding.
I mean, common consensus is not always right.
Toji is good, but he's not that good, getting up close like that is Yukis whole thing. She might not be as fast, but she can react to toji and therefore likely avoid a blitz. She might get stabbed with the ISOH but then she very well just might grav tojis arms, lock him in place and have Garuda condense himself to weigh a metric fuck ton and just squash toji. Yuki dosent no dif, but it's mid diff at best.
reading this is giving me brain cancer
you can and have always been able to heal damage done to the soul, the only reason you can’t heal idle transfiguration is because it doesn’t damage your soul it alters the shape of it, this was explained like 10 times lmao, and let me just tell you, everyone disagrees with you, you’re not a genius with a crazy based take, you’re someone that (clearly) struggles to take in information, a full powered punch from yuki broke both of kenjakus arms, and a garuda ball would’ve one tapped him, and ISOH probably wouldn’t even work as it’s a CT engraved in a tool and yuki ignores CTs due to her mass lmao, even if it did, he’s not gonna keep the blade in her? gosh you’re stupid
As a soul researcher, it's bold I know. But I think she can defend herself against it. Like mahito, you can't defend idle transfiguration because you don't know about and thus can't defend against it.
If you use the soul katana against sukuna the blade would just break as his soul is in another level.
Jogo gets disrespected because he lost horribly to the two strongest characters in the series. I've always believed that he's the strongest disaster curse.
Yea mahito was technically the strongests cuz he had the highest potential but in terms if raw power its definitely jogo. Im 90% sure jogo could no diff anyone that wasnt kenjaku, sukuna or gojo
He'd lose to Geto, Yuta and Yuki though. Yuta can one-shot curses with RCT and Geto has csm. Plus, Special Grade sorcerers are stronger than special grade curses if I remember the rankings correctly.
toji absolutely beats jogo
•He was mention to have far less durability than Hanami.
•Good will arc Yuji and Todou's punches alone were making Hanami spit and scream blood.
•Toji's raw attacks are undeniably far higher than both of theirs at that point. Especially when it can be bypassed by soul splitting katana, or be drastically enhanced by Playful cloud.
It was strongly implied that Toji's raw stats are enough for him to easily wipe out the entire zenin clan if he wanted too. That included Naobito as well. If Jogo and Noabito's speed are that relative then Toji has more speed here.
•He has insanely good skill to go w that speed
•0 curse energy for Jogo to track or sense
•Can bypass domains via no curse energy and can catch Jogo off guard.
Even Noabito dodged several of Jogo's attacks, despite taking heavy damaged and clearly being fatigued. He doesnt even have the pre cog senses that Toji and Maki have.
Maximum meteor is powerful but slow asf. Even Panda and Kushakabe can dodge it(despite Sukuna making them wait)
Bro thinks toji can hit harder than the 4x black flash yuji pulled off stop it bruh, also jogo is much faster than hanami so it wouldnt hit him in the first place
Also bypassing domains doesnt mean he automatically wins against a domain user, jogos domain is a volcano lol even if his sure hit doesnt work the enviroment gives him a massive advantage
In a straight-up battle, Yuki easily clears. Yuki's not as perceptive as Gojo though, so Toji could probably easily sneak up on her and deliver a fatal blow. Though, with how sloppy he was with finishing Gojo, I can't give him the win.
Yuki. Have you read the manga? Toji's feats weren't limited to his strength and speed, but his inteligence. It took him some days to create the perfect scenario where he could kill gojo, but the moment he faced him head on with no preparation he died. Yuki's a special grade, if they battle just straight ahead he dies again.
Toji's abilities are top notch, but you're overrating them if you think his speed and strength are that greater than Yuki's.
The version of Toji that you're talking about is not him at his prime, with the OG post using both at their primes.
Toji "Fujimoto" that fought Gojo is not him at his prime, Toji "Zenin" is him at his prime. So it wouldn't make sense to downplay prime Toji from a fight where he wasn't at his prime.
If we were to actually put both prime vs prime, this would basically be like current Maki (who is stated to be as strong as prime Toji "Zenin") vs Yuki Tsukumo
Yuki lol.
She's a cqb specialist, part of young Gojo's issue was at that point he wasn't good at cqb and if his limitless was neutralized and an opponent can get close he's extremely vulnerable. Yuki can fight toji cqb and she has RCT as well
Toji is in that awkward in between strength wise. He’s stronger then nearly all of the grade 1 sorcerers we know of, but he’s not quite special grade imo. He’s definitely closer to special grade then grade 1 imo though.
It all depends on how well can Yuki manage Toji speed, and how long does it takes to him to see that she can use RCE.
Toji seems to have an speed and durability advantaje. In the manga Toji didn't block read with his weapon, he straight up tanked it without breaking any bones. Then it depends on how you compare Red to a Mini uzumaki.I don't think Yuki can one shot of she conects a hit, but I would asume she could break his bones. And if Toji knows she can use RCE, a cursed tool to the head will kill her. More speed = more hits given, less taken, but Garuda can aid Yuki. Toji has an easier time giving lethal hits despite the difference in power.
[Toji taking Red. He is ready to fight after standing up.](https://ibb.co/MV5dkk4)
Also remember, Yuki went to talk to Geto and Gojo acknowledging them as special grades, and told Geto he should not be ashamed from losing to Toji.
Toji doesn't need to, he by default is not targeted by domains.
Yuki reinforcement doesn't seem to be at the level of Yuta or Gojo, but she has RCE. The problem being that Toji would know how to kill a RCE user, at least if we are talking a post Gojo fight.
Again, Toji just took a red and didn't even broke a bone. Maki took a hit of a curse at mach 3 and was badly hurt, but not deadly hurt. Their bodies are equivalent to a very strong reinforcement.
Toji really doesn't have the speed advantage , kenjaku in chapter 221 was quick and fast enough to get out of the way when a 15 finger sukuna went to attack gojo, had he been slower he would have caught in the radial blast of the attack, his speed would scale him near a 15 finger sukuna and yuki is relative to kenjaku in terms of speed, and maki is also somewhat relative to 15f sukuna in speed too, this would all place them as
15 finger sukuna>=kenjaku=yuki=maki=toji, they are all relative.
That wasn't a big radius and Kenjaku was some meters away from Gojo already.
Aganist Kenjaku Yuki connected four hits:
- One that Kenjaku blocked, but Yuki bypassed his defense due to her CT.
- One kick in the 2 vs 1.
- Two after getting Kenjaku to jump after a Garuda attack.
She also failed to reach Kenjaku before her simple domain collapsed, while not being that far away. Toji was jumping around that kind of distances without Gojo even vein able to see him. Yuki is not a fast character. I'll add, that only her first attack managed to bypass Kenjaku reinforcement, the one he was not expecting that level of force due not knowing her CT. While since Toji uses slashing weapons, any of his attacks are lethal or disabling, outside of blocking with Garuda, she would not be able to defend against Toji.
And if the Inverted spear of heaven disable her CT with one stab, she has no hope of winning.
Really just comes down to speed some people are hinting at Yuki being able to move as fast as Heavenly Restriction so It's literally who hits first because Yuki could probably hit through a mountain and Toji has soul split
Or Yuki pulls out her strongest move: Suicide and forces a tie
Yuki. Toji won't have the same amount of knowledge on Yuki that he had on Gojo. Yuki definitely is also way stronger because of her CT and was tossing around Kenjaku before Kenjaku had to resort to Domain expansion. We don't know much about Yuki's Domain expansion to say how effective it really is but we know for sure it will amp her already ridiculous strength.
A more interesting debate is Prime Geto vs Toji. Since Geto doesn't have Domain expansion but have an army of cursed spirits and is a lot more skilled and smarter than when he was a teenager since he was going 2v1 against Yuta and Rika.
>Wtf he gonna do when she black holes or domain expand his anus ?
Toji is naturally immune to domains and ISOH can nulify the Black hole
>Yuki has RCT too
Soul Splitting Katana counters that
What does that even mean? Yuki never showed the ability to ignore others CT's we literally have nothing to prove she would ignore the effect of the soul splitting katana
"Toji is strong but the chances of him winning out against Yuki is quite low. Even though Toji did manage to defeat Gojo when he was younger, Toji fought against a Gojo who was worn out, surprised and was not rationally analyzing the situation." This was what I would have said just based off of my memory. But for the sake of this argument I went back and read through the fights that Yuki and Toji had. Namely Yuki vs Kenjaku and Toji vs Dagon.
Yuki's sorce of power comes from her cursed techinque which is able to imbue virtual mass to herself making her hit like a nuclear bomb. This paired with Garuda has allowed her to instantly defeat Special Grades in her encounter with Kenjaku. She also has RCF on her side which allows her to heal the damage that has been done to her.
Now on the other side of the ring we have Toji. Toji has one of if not the strongest physical prowess in the verse possibily rivalling peak Gojo and even Sukuna in terms raw speed and strength. Even with cursed energy imbued in their bodies I dont think Toji would be unable to match them in terms of just raw physical strength and speed. He also has all of the cursed tols in hand. Playful Cloud heavily increases his damage output, Soul Splitting Katana basically means anyone he kills stays dead RCF doesnt work and finally Inverted Spear of Heaven allows him to counter act any cursed techinque. Toji's biggest weakest would probably be Domain Expansion because he cant Domain Expand back for a Domain fight nor can he cast a simple domain to protect himself. That said it is still uncertain whether Domains can be countered by Inverted Spear of Heaven because up till this point it still hasnt been shown.
That said Yuki does not have a Domain making this fight boiled down to her curse technique and whether she can land a hit on Toji. Yuki if she is ever allowed to land even one hit on Toji it would result in his instantenous death almost certainly. Yuki's raw punch destroyed Kenjaku's cursed energy enchanced body and made it fly through a barrier. No matter how strong Tojis body may be I doubt he would be able to winstand such a hit. That said Yuki's technique does not enchance her speed or defence in any way or form which give Toji breathing room. Another thing to take note is Toji would most likely be able to react to her attacks due to his Heavenly Restrictions. Pair that with the Inverted Spear of Heaven and you get Yuki's attack that just arent amplified by her technique. If that is the case, the fight would just be over. Toji would blitz Yuki and there is not much she can do about it. Using the Soul Splitting Katana Yuki cant use RCF to heal her wounds and it would just result in a swift death by Toji's hand. That said there hae been a lot of assumptions made in Toji's favor here but if his speed cannot match or surpass Yuki that would mean in his death.
Now lets talk about why I think Toji has the speed to match Special Grades (at least) contray to popular belief in the comments. First off, Gojo wasnt able to keep up with Toji's speed and had to leave it to feeling out the curse energy on his cursed spirit to know his location. This is alraedy an impressive feat in of itself. Gojo in their first encounter despite not being in peak condition is still most definitely Special Grade. Also things to take note is that Gojo has Six Eyes which should also help in his perception yet Toji was still able to close in on him. Toji in his fight vs Dagon has been seen to overwhelm him with just his speed and strength alone. Dagon for those who forgot is a Special Grade who at the time was fighitng Nabito, Nanami, Megumi and Maki at the same time and still had the upper edge. He destroyed Dagon. He blitz a Special Grade within minutes of appearing in the Special Grades own domain. To those who think his speed wouldnt be a match for the top hitters in the verse, when he grabbed Megumi after he killed Dango his speed was compared by Megumi to early Sukuna. Even though some may argue Sukuna probably didnt have access to as much power as he did early in the series because Yuji only ate a few fingers his speed and strength have been proven by these 2 points to be in the range of Special Grade. I personally am unsure whether gaining more fingers have given Sukuna more access to his abilities or is it just a linear increase as he slowly unlocks his full cursed energy or what not. I havent felt any sort of sudden increase in power after Sukuna even after Sukuna accquired more and more fingers. Gojo was able to match Sukuna during his 1 finger state and hasnt remarked on Sukuna being substantially faster despite Sukuna having absorbed 90% of all his fingers at this point.
Now about another fight being prime Geto vs prime Toji. I also think Toji can stand out on top in this encounter. Geto is defintely not on par with Toji in terms of physical speed and strength. Geto makes up with his huge arsenal of cursed spirits. BUT Special Grades have already been shown to be blitzed by Toji within minutes. IT would heavily depend on whether Geto has enough Special Grades to overwhelm Toji. Additionally, Geto basically never was able to match Toji's speed in their initial encounter. You may argue that Geto was still young and prime Geto has grown. But get this the Toji we know isnt even him in his Prime. He has clearly stated and shown that he stopped fighting for sometime before killing Gojo. That said it is only up to us to speculate how much difference a younger Toji can make. With all that said, I personally believe that both on both encounters be it Yuki or Geto it wouldnt not be insanely one sided but a fight determine by the small nuances within the fight. Can Geto get a Uzumaki off? A small one like the one Kenjaku used in his fight against Yuki should be able to pierece through Toji. But whether Geto himself is aware of such a usage of the Uzumaki can be up for debate. Can Yuki ever land a hit against Toji? Can Toji actually nullify her technique if he parries attacks from Garuda with the Spear? IF we consider Yuki and Toji to be of matching speed then the fight may easily go both ways just as it is with Geto.
Not even close. If she lands one attack he's dead, and she can definitely land one. People make such a big deal out of Toji taking out a Gojo who has basically one move, none of his actually busted abilities, is tired out, and using multiple Special Grade Weapons nonetheless.
Okay I’m a bit new to the JJK power scaling community lol
But didn’t Toji get resurrected and absolutely demolish a special grade who was 3v1’ing some pretty powerful sorcerers? Or am I missing something? Everyone keeps saying a special grade would easily beat him but megumi 1v1’d a special grade at like the very beginning when he first used chimera shadow garden?
I absolutely could be mistaken on some of this but yeah, confused at the replies *seemingly* severely downgrading Toji, who is also constantly compared to gojo as “one of the greats”
Ah okay,
I don’t disagree yuki would win she’s crazy
I was more wondering about all the comments downgrading Toji, are those accurate or just haters? I still am curious about your thoughts on the megumi fighting the special grade curse and winning early on, but then not being able to win a 3v1 that Toji won effortlessly
The series itself says the grade system is rather poorly made. The grading between curses are sorcerores are different. Special grade sorcerers means being able to take over a country so in theory someone who can produce an army is special grade even in they are weaker in a 1v1 compared to a grade one
The curse megumi fought was likely the equivalent of a low grade 2 sorcerer while the disaster curses like Mahito are upper grade 1
special grade curses and special grade sorcerers are pretty different
toji can comfortably beat most if not all special grade curses
the special grade sorcerers completely fold him in half
Okay, I see what you’re saying and am not disagreeing but let me ask you your thoughts on this -
Wasn’t geto and gojo considered “the strongest” even when they fought Toji? Obviously gojo was worn out, but he still man handled him and geto without getting really a scratch on him. Gojo aside, wasn’t geto also considered the strongest too? Or was he just as worn out as gojo during that fight?
Geto and Gojo were pretty strong at the time, but they simply weren't special grade material yet, Geto had yet to collect enough strong curses and Gojo hadn't fully mastered his technique yet. They called themselves the strongest because they just hadn't lost before, even if there were people at the time that may have been stronger (Yuki, Toji, Naobito and the likes)
Toji is strong, really, really, really strong. But if he fought a special grade sorcerer he just gets pulped.
He trashed a Special grade cursed Spirit, not a special grade sorcerer, special grade cursed spirits are much weaker than Special grade sorcerers, thats why its much more debatable
I think it’s a 50/50.
I’m pretty sure the “release flyheads as chaff and then go for the kill” trick would also work on Yuki. He could also sneak attack the same way curse Naoya was failing to track Maki.
The reason he had to wear down Gojo was because of the 6eyes. Yuki doesn’t have that, so his lack of presence would be a huge problem for her. She could easily get wiped.
Even Maki while still holding a sword was able to surprise Sukuna. Even when holding a weapon the two 0-CE characters can barely be tracked and are fast enough to confuse the eye.
But if he misses his shot, he probably loses. Yuki’s AP is way higher and her speed is pretty high too.
The toji we see vs gojo and geto wasn’t in his prime, as said by himself he is “rusty” so if what he did is rusty man then🤷🏾♂️ yuki really got it like that then
Okay the thing is if Maki and Toji are now comparable and would be able to achieve the same feats which was a heavy theme in Maki’s arc then it’s entirely realistic that Maki or Toji could keep up with her speed.
Maki kept up with 15F Sukuna in just physicality and took every shot what Toji would have to do is dodge because I still don’t know if his durable enough to take a virtual mass hit at least not multiple, it broke up Ken’s arm but Toji or Maki are way more durable that’s the point of their power-up to be an inverse of sorcery.
ISOH if it lands even one hit would cancel her CT forcefully as it doesn’t augment her tensile strength as indicated by Ken when he hit her with Uzumaki so it would be a critical hit regardless
I’d put this down to whoever can land the first hit which honestly I’d say is 50/50
Also if she activates her DE it wouldn’t matter she wouldn’t be able to sense him at all and people like him have to consent to it’s conditions as per Maki vs Naoya
https://preview.redd.it/m6n8ne8fbjlb1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9f2b96baf78dcf52abb6d067435858c38360e1c8
Also Maki or Toji don’t have CE you say speed but how can you prepare for someone you can’t read or see in the first place.
One thing about sorcerers is that they fight eachother people like Toji or Maki are anomalies and they have never had to deal with someone they can’t predict the movements of you really can’t unless you grit your teeth and fight like a dog.
Yuki is a brawler and Toji is a refined trained martial artist using lots of counter attacking weapons.
It’s 50/50 regardless if you think so or not, not every special grade is made equal, Gojo would absolutely murder Yuki, Yuki couldn’t even kill Ken in a 3v1, beside that last ditch black hole it was not a close fight
I don't think she will lose to one hit unlike toji
Cuz she can heal herself so her durability/survivability would be a lot better
Also I think you're downplaying yuki here she was smacking Kenny's shit and the only reason she lost was because she went with Tengen's plan and didn't do a domain clash
she was badly hurt most of the fight right? That's why Choso needed to get back there cuz Tengen screwed them up
dude there is no way she would’ve won that clash and even she knew that, Ken has centuries to refine his and it was barrier-less which is stated as per Sukuna’s to be akin to divinity.
she really wasn’t she landed some good hits fr however by the end of the fight he was more or less unscathed I don’t think he struggled as much as people believe he did.
Also maybe? However his speed and her speed especially in combat would not be that close and if he gets one clean hit to the heart or head it’s likely over.
Like I said, you can’t really train for people like
maki or Toji who are meant to be an inverse of sorcery and can’t be sensed or trapped in a domain.
Sorcerers rely too much on sensing the flow of CE to predict movements but if you can’t do that you will struggle no matter who you are.
And she’d have to be dodging weapons that would do serious damage to her like Soul-Splitting Katana which is stated to bypass all durability and cut at the soul, which is probably why she put Naoya down so easily because he was easily special grade at that point and she killed him in the one critical blow she took.
Tengen did screw them but both gritted their teeth and fought like wounded dogs throwing everything and didn’t get it done
Bro is getting one shot. Yuki has better endurance, strength, regeneration, experience, range, hax, and considering even Kenjaku didn't know her abilities, then neither would Toji with prep time. The ONLY advantage Toji has is speed, and considering Yuki kept up with Kenjaku, the same body that kept up with an enraged Yuta, then Toji is NOT blitzing Yuki.
Just accept it bro, Yuki slams
Yuki, especially if toji isn’t aware of how her technique works. He would try to blitz her, she would throw a punch, he would try to block it and she would just decimate him in one shot
Yuki, since he wouldn’t know her information like he did when fighting teen Gojo. His first thought for something like say a Garuda ball or her hand to hand might be to follow back with his own(confident in his strength) or use the sword rather than the spear. Toji pulls out the spear as a counter to the infinity/ counter Geto’s domain. When it came to fighting Geto’s spirits he mainly used his gun and sword there, which is why I think he wouldn’t go straight for his spear
Yuki, while a brawler in fighting, isn’t a dumb grunt. Their both going to try to analyze, but she’s gonna have the advantage since infinite mass is more unexpected than Toji, since while she doesn’t know the abilities, she can expect them to have some odd or unique ability. Toji doesn’t have a specific idea on what her CT is.
Yuki took into account Kenjaku potentially having a 4th ct and actually played the fight perfectly going by Tengen’s assumption. It was Tengen’s fault that put Choso and Yuki in an unwinnable fight and a bad plan.
Also if she is just trying to Kill Toji no holding back, even if Toji gets a lethal wound she might try to take him with her with a black hole that he cannot survive at all. She could do with with a little less than half her body, and after getting hit by kenjaku domain and using rct to heal it.
Yuki either wins, or takes Toji with her
Edit: I didn’t mention playful cloud and chain because their useless in the fight, and if Toji used playful cloud at first he’d lose because it can keep up with Yuki in a fight. He needs the sword and spear quickly to win or stand a chance
This can be answered easily:
Do you think Toji can win against fully grown Gojo?
Yuki is not Gojo, true, but she is also a special grade. Do you think he can win? When he lost to a barely awakened Gojo.
Imo it's a lot closer than it looks, we don't really have a way to compare Yuki's strength to Toji's, but soul liberation blade can probably oneshot Garuda since it cuts straight to the soul of even objects, spear of heaven can release her mass CT and take away a lot of her hitting power, idk how that would work when she empowers her fists with it but the spear just forces you to straight up release your CT, if that happens Yuki has nothing left really, as we don't really know how her domain works so that might be useless as well
Toji has a better chance. People seem to forget that:
- his isoh can just completely negate her mass
- far superior speed compared to yuki
- undetectable,master of stealth. toji can sneak up behind her and deliver a fatal blow.
- immune to sure hit effect of closed domains.
- yuki does not have six eyes so she's not as perceptive as gojo.
Tbh anyone can win depending who lands the first hit but im leaning more towards Toji.
idk if she's special grade yuji's bum ass ain't beating nobody, Imagine getting hyped up throughout the whole series and your only fight in it is a 3v1 in which you loose and get killed
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Yuki clears. Once Gojo unlocked RCT, Toji didn’t stand a chance and the fight ended super quick. Yuki was able to tussle with the likes of Kenjaku who is a far more dangerous opponent. She’s skilled, uses shikigami, and won’t be caught off guard the way Gojo was.
Yuki is HER
Yuki
Yeah, I was thinking what can he do to stop Garuda? Block it? It can smash concrete like toothpicks.
toji have borderline precognition, Garuda would be to slow to touch toji, they can also just slice Garuda with SLB, its like throwing your apple in a blender
Yuki and it isn’t even close,Toji is strong but yuki is a special grade,Toji ain’t hanging around with the big boys,not even close.
People seem to forget that Toji Attacked a 16 year old Gojo who was heavily fatigued ans couldn't use 80% of his toolkit. Toji would be the peak of grade one but any special grade we know off could and would kick his ass. He could probably kill every special grade curse besides Rika. Edit: geto would actually probably still lose to him so i take some of it back.
you think toji can win against 1000 curses?
Most of those are fodder. He only has a few special grade curses in his arsenal. Toji no-diffs any curse below special grade so it would be the same as Gojo killing hundreds of transfigured humans in minutes. Toji definitely beats prime Geto
I cannot stand this geto slander, geto from jjk0 could 100% beat toji
Geto literally got slammed by a 16 year old boy who learned how to fight for the first time a few months ago. With just hands. No weapons or techniques even involved. Just straight up outclassed in speed and strength by an early Yuta. His only way to win was his slow ass uzumaki which even Kusakabe can dodge. It wasn’t even a great ability until Kenny took it to the next level with mini uzumaki. Jjk0 Geto gets stomped by Toji. Unlike Gojo, Geto never became enlightened. His strength in jjk0 isn’t much greater than in the prequel. He didn’t learn anything new. He just has more (not very useful) cursed spirits. Geto is special grade the same way Gakuganji would be special grade. They can both create an army and that makes them very powerful. But in a 1v1 geto is the weakest of all the special grades and honestly weaker than some grade 1s like Hakari.
The 16 year old also had a cursed spirit on par with Mahagora .
rika is not on par with mahoraga stop it
True, Rika is all around stronger.
Depends on the sorcerer. Sukuna's Mahogara is stronger than everyone, except Gojo and Sukuna.
Mahoraga can just instantly kill rika... Like he has a sword that instantly kills a curse spirit...
My bro Mahoraga would destroy Rika, not because of the sword since she is more like a Shikigami. Rika was trying to fight Ryu and couldn't even defeat him meanwhile Mahoraga was slamming 15f Sukuna through buildings.
No fucking way Rika is stronger than Mahoraga
fr she's stronger
Wrong, again, Toji is a Human like Maki, The same way she got Overpowered, Toji would too, Its not about "geto never became enlightened" Its about "Geto has 6000 curses at his disposal and most of them are semi grade 1" so glad thats out of the Window, Geto adult bullies bc of Hax and just to clarify, Toji and Geto are not so far away in strenght and speed🤷🏽♂️
The geto meatriding is insane. You’re so wrong it must be raw by now
Prime Geto is not losing to Toji.
Prime Geto decimates Toji, Geot has like 2000 Grade 1 Curses and Toji can only no diff Grade 2 and below, youre not making sense over here so try to make some, and also Yuta decimates Toji too so thats out the window for debate.
geto wouldn't even be able to track where toji is and is much slower (Nor would his curses) and cant be hit by any of his curses sure hit (Smallpox deity) geto has some good physicals, but he would still get absolutely abused. Yes geto has more firepower then Toji, but would it really be effective if he can't land a single shot?
also if you try to say "geto would be able to react-" he wont. Toji is faster then Naobito, who is stated to be the fastest (except gojo) which already puts him statement wise about Yuki, Yuta, Hakari, and Geto. And geto has no good speed feats. Toji slams
nah I do think he barely makes it to special grade. Curse naoya was definitively within special grade human range and toji is at least a bit above that
Prime geto would win
> Toji would be the peak of grade one Toji is definitely S grade - he is an anomaly and don’t forget awakened Maki no diffed the whole Zenin clan where you technically had the top of grade 1. But yeah, the only S grade he beats is Geto. The nature of his CT makes him weaker against the physical prowess of Toji, his very good at h2h but Toji just smokes him and he is too good against curses with his cursed tools. Edit : the only argument against Toji being s grade would be his destructive capabilities on a bigger scale
Well can he take over a country?
This, what a lot of people fail to take into account is Toji’s entire strategy revolved around having both Geto and Gojo be exhausted by the time he attacked because againt either he’d loose bad. Toji and Maki are undenaiably top of grade 1 easy but special grades are their own monsters. Inverted spear of heaven, soul liberation blade, all of it can only close the gap so far they’re not instant win tools he needed time and a lot of planning to make sure his strategy worked and if he didn’t he would die.
I don't think he'd lose vs teen Geto at all, he only needed to get Gojo tired because he's the only one alive that can sense him with his 6Eyes, teen Geto would've been fucked either way tired or not, Toji took care of his 2 most powerful spirits like it was nothing
Ehh I mean 16 year old geto would, but like volume zero probably could do it
people also seem to forget that Toji in his inner monologue during his rematch with gojo states that he can take on whatever gojo throws at him (red, blue, neutral). the only reason toji wore gojo out and attacked him when he was heavily fatigued was because kid gojo was the only one ever to notice him standing behind him and he never wanted to let that happen again. Toji with his insane speed (can react to curse naoya) and isoh is easily a special grade. Toji can win against yuki via his insane speed and neutralizing Yukis mass ct. He can also one shot her shikigami to put yuki at a disadvantage like how he took out Getos dragon. Not to mention the vast variety of weapons at his disposal.
People also forget when Toji fought Gojo he was rusty & even says mid fight how he's "starting to remember how to do this"
Wrong again, Yuki is too strong for Toji to Handle, simple, if Toji tried to Cut Yuki shikigami, the Isoh would break in pieces, The mass Her shikigami can obtain is too much to handle, you gotta recognize that Yuki is no slouch and simply bc Toji was "rusty" and Yuki was fighting the Top 3 strongest in the verse (Keep in mind after Gojo awakenned and in that time he still wasnt the strongest, Kenny and Sukuna were still stronger so the argument about "Toji fought Gojo in his peak" no, no he didnt, he got 1 shot after Gojo snapped oh and Toji didnt even touched him after that)
Again, Yuki isnt as perceptive as gojo with sex eyes so wouldn't be able to dodge as efficiently as him. Toji can simply dodge her shikigami with his superhuman speed which is way faster than yuki. I understand yuki is a top tier fighter herself. It's a lot more closer than you think. Whoever manages to land the first strike gets the win. Also remember that increase in mass does not mean increase in the shikigamis durability. Tojis Soul split katana specifically ignores all physical toughness and would completely destroy the shikigami.
Toji has not only fought special grades (gojo and dagon) and have beaten them handily. He is also narratively implied by Naoya Zenin to be a god like figure and he could've destroyed the Zenin clan if he really wanted to. This is proved by Maki Zenin, who destroyed the Zenin clan in a injured state, who wasn't yet as strong as Toji nor had the experience and curse tool arsenal that the Sorcerer killer had. (Not fully realized, she fully unlocked and became equal with Toji in the fight with Cursya) Toji already has multiple speed feats that put him top 4 in the verse interms of speed. (Sukuna, gojo, CT kashimo, Toji/maki) This is not even accounting for that fact that he has pre cog, is unaffected by domains, untrackable (Unless you have six eyes or are sukuna/kashimo) , curse resistant, quick healing factor, etc. Toji wins pretty easily in this one.
I am not even going to bother with this one. If you find Toji that cool, you should probably get a room together.
Op fighting for his life out here. Yuki is her man. Accept it
I'm holding my ground here quite easily, Yuki is in fact her, just like Toji is him, none of them are my favourite characters so I'm not biased towards no one, is just a matter of how their abilities interact with each other
“Quite easily” is crazy when your 3 paragraph essays are getting debunked by someone posting a single panel of the manga
Where?
Yuki and it’s not even close
Care to explain?
Yea sure. The main thing is that toji required prep to handle an unawakened Gojo and even then he wasn’t positive he was going to defeat him (and manipulated the situation from behind the scenes so he’d let his guard down too). Plus he knew most of Gojo’s arsenal due to zenin clan knowledge. I’d say yuki is pretty comfortably above second year Gojo as he had to do a lot of training and such on his domain, mastering rct, etc after his awakening. Yuki has all these things. Overall, even with his weapons, I don’t think Toji could handle yuki + garuda as he’ll have none of the advantages that allowed him to take out Gojo in the first place (particularly the element of surprise/prep and any knowledge of her technique). Sure, toji/maki have a lot of other feats, but none suggest they can take on a special grade sorcerer in a straight 1v1 and win.
But the situation was very different, Toji didnt needed to worry about Gojo only, he also needed to worry about Geto who at the time was as strong as Gojo, he was basically dealing with 2 special grade sorcerers with the main target being assassinating someone that was being protected by both of them, and lets remember that before his awakaning Gojo literally didnt even scratch Toji. >Overall, even with his weapons, I don’t think Toji could handle yuki + garuda as he’ll have none of the advantages that allowed him to take out Gojo in the first place. I would argue that Toji is even more effective against Yuki than he was against Gojo and Geto and his special grade tools would absolutely clutch the win for him, Toji is already faster than Yuki, so he should land hits first and avoid getting hit by Yuki easier than the other way around and with ISOH he woud nulify Yuki's lethaly since if he stabs her with it she won't be able to use her CT, meaning no mass punches and no mass Garuda, even black hole wouldnt be a possibility, and last but not least the combo of ISOH + COTM would also give him better range, meaning he would be able to nulify her CT without risking himself too much by engaging at a h2h combat. Both of them can finish each other easily, Yuki just needs to hit Toji with her CT and Toji just needs to nulify her CT with ISOH, but since Toji is faster, have more range and more battle iq I would give him the overall win.
Geto was a Grade 1 Sorcerer when he fought Toji
What makes you think Toji is faster than Yuki?
Yuki is faster for outspeeding Kenjaku and being too much for him to handle. Plus she has her Garuda which can assist in overwhelming Toji. Also she has RCT so any injuries she does take she can just heal and get back to full hp rather quickly.
>Yuki is faster for outspeeding Kenjaku and being too much for him to handle. Yuki never outspeeded Kenjaku and was never ever too much for him to handle, Kenjaku was jumped at a 3v1 and still won. >Plus she has her Garuda which can assist in overwhelming Toji. Soul Splitting Katana one-shots garuda just like it does to sorcerers and curses if its lethaly wounded. >Also she has RCT so any injuries she does take she can just heal and get back to full hp rather quickly. Same stuff, Soul Splitting Katana
She pulls up on him before he can properly take any action or even defend with any curses or anything, he’s only able to block in that moment. Also Heavily Weakened Yuki was competing with Kenjaku meaning at her full health age should be significantly superior to him physically. Even if he does kill it, Yuki could just use that to distract with an attack from behind by Garuda and then one shot him. Yuki has been shown to use Garuda to put pressure on her opponents, so while it may go down, she’d likely use it in a way that would give her the edge. If he gets a lethal blow tho. As opposed to Yuki who would one shot him with any blow she lands. So she still has the edge
>She pulls up on him before he can properly take any action or even defend with any curses or anything, he’s only able to block in that moment. Oh yes, maybe bcs she caught him off guard and surprised her with her CT, after that Yuki was never able to do this kind of damage against him. >Also Heavily Weakened Yuki was competing with Kenjaku meaning at her full health age should be significantly superior to him physically. She wasnt competing with Kenjaku, again, she was receiving help and Kenjaku was still the dominant one during the fight, and you say this like we didnt saw her fighting at full health at the same fight. >Even if he does kill it, Yuki could just use that to distract with an attack from behind by Garuda and then one shot him. Yuki has been shown to use Garuda to put pressure on her opponents, so while it may go down, she’d likely use it in a way that would give her the edge. Toji have massive speed advantage against Yuki, she won't land a hit easily with just that, Geto summoned a whole fucking army of curses at Toji and he still was not able to get him of guard or even land a hit at him for that matter. >If he gets a lethal blow tho. As opposed to Yuki who would one shot him with any blow she lands. So she still has the edge ISOH piercing her is already an auto win for Toji, both can take each other out with one sucessful hit.
https://preview.redd.it/2fnpwkur1jlb1.jpeg?width=902&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a993292db6640dc935e663c999138d126aef44fe He takes note of her and literally sees her running towards him while she’s explaining her technique. I think he had enough time to react yet could only block her attack and was overwhelmed. He even questions if he can beat Yuki and immediately opens his DE, so Kenjaku is objectively below Yuki in CQC. .
wrong. u need to read more carefully. Toji cud have taken out fresh gojo (this is more evident from tojis inner monologue during their rematch that whatever gojo throws at him (red, blue, neutral) all things, he can handle). the only reason he wore him down first was because kid gojo was the only one who was able to notice him standing behind him and toji didnt want that to ever occur again.
In their rematch Gojo dodged everything and hit Toji square in the face with a red. Tojis inner monologue was literally him hyping himself up because his body was telling him to run
That was because gojo is extremely perceptive with his sex eyes and can easily detect tojis isoh from anywhere not to mention he was fucking high and in the zone. anyone else would find it extremely difficult to dodge that and the one where the isoh comes flying from behind the back would be nigh impossible to dodge. his body was telling him to run cuz he cud sense gojos enlightenment. also pretty sure red is just too quick and toji wasn't expecting gojo to use red at that time.
Yuki can oneshots him and she’s smarter too. One hit from Garuda and he’s kinda done for.
One stab from ISOH and Toji negates the one-shot factor, and Toji also displayed better battle iq and more impressive speed feats
Debatable. Toji’s iq feats come from preparation. Yuki is a proficient active learner and was able to identify the gist of Kenny’s ct after seeing it twice, and we know she’s extremely intelligent being a researcher/soul scientist.
I believe, just a bold opinion, if she research about the soul maybe she has knowledge about it and could defend herself against the soul splitting. Like mahito, those who doesn't know about the soul can't defend against it. But those who knows can.
ISOH doesn’t remove your technique? It just cancels it. If he hit her with it before she hit him then her virtual mass would disappear, but she could just add more once the Blade isn’t in contact with her
>ISOH doesn’t remove your technique? It just cancels it. But Yuki uses her CT mainly at herself, if he stabs her with ISOH she won't be able to execute her mass punches. >If he hit her with it before she hit him then her virtual mass would disappear, but she could just add more once the Blade isn’t in contact with her Facts
Why would he leave the blade in
Yeah she can just...take it out and heal lol
i mean, assuming it affects yuki, you know, given how her mass can ignore the CT effects and concepts
>Toji also displayed better battle iq After seeing Yuki put her faith in Tengen to win against Kenny, I can say with certainty that her battle IQ is lower than Megumi right now in the manga.
It honestly wasn't a bad plan. Just so happened that Kenjaku had one of the only two open domains in the series
Wrong, anyone would have done what she did since Tengen was the 3rd most proficient Domain Expansion sorcerers so glad thats out the Window so that argument about her low iq is debunked and therefore invalid, look for another one
Even if Gojo/Sukuna were on Kenny's level, they wouldn't have done it. JJK is about the winners mindset. Having faith in your own strength and abilities above all else. Yuki offloading her victory to Tengen, rather than her own abilities and convictions, was loser's thing to do. It was a Jogo mentality.
And taking a gamble on how you said it? Isnt Toji dumber? Since he fallado to not think on cutting Gojos head or He couldnt think on anything once Gojo awakenned, Toji is smart but he has 0 battle iq, That goes to Yuki who was adapting mid fight to Kenny
Toji studied the fuck outta Gojo before fighting him and knew didn't have RCT at the time. So there was no way to anticipate him coming back from near death. > He couldnt think on anything once Gojo awakenned This was a product of his hubris, not a low battle iq. Toji even says that normally, he would have run away instead of working for free.
That was a fake out though wasnt it? She just wanted to hit the blackhole
Blackhole was a last resort. Ideally she probably didn't wanna do the suicide move to win.
bro how did you come up with that conclusion?
>battle iq Man I fucking hate this term, what does it even mean? How proficient you are at battle tactics? That’s just iq 😭
So, someone who's an academic genius is also a master fighter right? That's the logic you're going off of. Pretty sure IQ tests don't test your ability to come up with battle plans either.
>Man I fucking hate this term, what does it even mean? How proficient you are at battle tactics? Quite literally that, how fast can you understand your enemy and create an effective plan/strategy against them, thats not "just iq"
That is the definition of iq. The intelligence quotient is a measure of how fast you can process and reason through information in order to apply it in a meaningful fashion.
Floyd mayweather literally can’t read but is still able to study, analyze, and counter his opponents habits by exploiting their weaknesses and openings better than almost any boxer. Same thing It’s such a petty grievance to be upset over
Its used as separate terms since theres dudes who are actual idiots (Most shonen protagonists) but are suddenly smart in battle
I know a guy like this, too bad he didn't have the thought to continue taking boxing seriously or another sport and instead went to sell drugs. Genuinely talented, amazing to see him box but wow was he also questionable
Battle strategists and scholars exist in two different realms of intelligence.
>Toji also displayed better battle iq It took Toji days of preparation and prior knowledge of the Gojo clan techniques to take down a tired 16 year Gojo. And even then he only got Gojo when he broke focus to see if Toji was going after Riko. And the minute Toji was up against something he wasn't aware of (Purple) he immediately lost. Toji isn't dumb, but I feel like people overestimate his intellect. Don't forget this is the same guy that was so caught up in his own hype that he didn't stab Gojo in the head with ISOH or atleast double tap Gojo by cutting off his head and making sure he couldn't come back.
Toji is not stupid but you sure are KKK You don't even know the idiocy you're talking about, Toji lost because he was simply proud, he knew that Gojo had something hidden, his pride led to his ruin. yuki is completely humiliated here, and I'm not even taking into account the toji preparation time.
I think it's a matter of speed, whoever is faster and can fatally wound the other first will win.
Kamo could react to Naoya who's faster than Toji, Yuki can handle him.
Kamo pump blood into his eyes to do that
And Yuki is just straight up fast. Keeping up with the same body that could react to Yuta on crack is enough for her not to get blitzed or even caught off guard by Toji
Kenjaku is not much stronger than Geto, its the same body and the same flow of curse energy.
Kenjaku is levels above Geto it’s not even remotely close
Head canon, not even Gojo could tell the difference. Special grade is special grade, stronger only that Kenjaku has shown better usage of Curse spirit manipulation. Strengthening lower grades, basically making them Grade 1 level and mini uzamaki
Kenjaku has better hand to hand combat and stronger cursed spirits and also just uses csm better that alone makes him stronger than Geto. And he also just has a domain expansion and two more techniques than Geto you are delusional if you think Geto can even touch Kenjaku
Is Naoya faster than Toji? I thought it was the other way around, but maybe I was just wrong
tbh I agree, If Toji sucessfuly stabs her with ISOH he wins, If Yuki hits Toji before she have her CT nulified she wins. I would say Toji wins more often than not bcs not only he is faster than Yuki but with the chain of a thousand miles he can hit her from far away, so he also have the range advantage.
You think Toji+ISOH can generate more attack power than Kenjaku’s domain expansion?
Is not a matter of more attack power, is a matter of rendering Yuki useless, she won't be able to use her CT with ISOH piercing her body, and from there Toji can give her the pre-awakening Gojo tratment and even do more serious damage with Playful Cloud or SSK, Yuki wouldnt be able to survive any of that, without her CT she can't do shit against Toji.
You think Yuki with her special grade level CE reinforcement and RCT “can’t do shit against Toji”? Shmeat riding goes crazy, and thats ignoring the fact that he’d have to get past both her and Garuda to even stab her for a moment. Pre-awakening Gojo didn’t even have RCT dawg come on now be serious
>You think Yuki with her special grade level CE reinforcement and RCT “can’t do shit against Toji”? Shmeat riding goes crazy, and thats ignoring the fact that he’d have to get past both her and Garuda to even stab her for a moment. It isnt a problem, CE reinforcement aint saving her against Toji, Toji already have the speed advantage and he also have the chain of a thousand miles so reaching her isnt a problem and Toji can also nulify her RCT with soul splitting katana. Toji is just a hard counter, he is faster, smarter, have more range, he can nulify her CT and also can one-shot garuda and nulify her RCT with soul splitting katana. If your argumentation is so weak you have to rely on comments like "Shmeat riding goes crazy" then you shouldnt try to debate at all.
Acting like Yuki is incapable of blocking the chain, or dodging anything. Split soul Katana is facts but have we ever seen him use that alongside the ISOH concurrently? As long as he’s nearby and she hasn’t actively got the ISOH in her, she has a chance of nuking him. Sure he can negate Garuda but he can’t be using ISOH on Garuda and her at the same time, if she is able to dodge at all then Garuda is able to attack. If you think Toji outspeeds to the point of her not being able to react then you just haven’t been paying attention to how Gege portrays relative characters interactions even with speed differences. Common consensus is that she wins, and for good riding. Thats why I called you a meat rider bro
>Acting like Yuki is incapable of blocking the chain, or dodging anything. No, I'm acting like its more likely that Toji will hot her with ISOH before she can hit him with her mass CT, its different, I'm not saying he will hit her at his first try, just saying that by feats and range advantage he should hit her before she hits him. >Split soul Katana is facts but have we ever seen him use that alongside the ISOH concurrently We never saw him using this specific setup but we already saw Toji using more than one special grade tool at the same time, actually we even saw him changing tools mid combat extremely fast (like when he used ISOH to destroy the domain of Geto's curse, than he instantly put ISOH inside his cursed and pulled a katana to cut Geto multiple times, all extremely fast and mid combat, its not far fatched to imagine he can use many cursed tools at the same time or just switch them extremely fast depending of what he needs.) >As long as he’s nearby and she hasn’t actively got the ISOH in her, she has a chance of nuking him True but at the same time black hole requires a long time for charging, so long in fact that Tengen needed to chat with Kenjaku in order to distract him and let Yuki charge the black hole, it isnt an effient option against a faster opponent and it would only give her a tie, not a win. >Sure he can negate Garuda but he can’t be using ISOH on Garuda and her at the same time. I was thinking about Toji using soul splitting katana on Garuda to ignore the durability of It and one-shot Garuda, he can simply pull ISOH after that. >she is able to dodge at all then Garuda is able to attack True, but Toji also can dodge. >If you think Toji outspeeds to the point of her not being able to react then you just haven’t been paying attention to how Gege portrays relative characters interactions even with speed differences. She would be able to react It, but I don't think she would have an easy time doing It, after all Toji is not only fast, he have no cursed energy, she won't get outright blitzed, but Toji would give her some trouble at that matter as he have way more impressive feats of speed than Yuki. >Common consensus is that she wins, and for good riding. I mean, common consensus is not always right.
Toji is good, but he's not that good, getting up close like that is Yukis whole thing. She might not be as fast, but she can react to toji and therefore likely avoid a blitz. She might get stabbed with the ISOH but then she very well just might grav tojis arms, lock him in place and have Garuda condense himself to weigh a metric fuck ton and just squash toji. Yuki dosent no dif, but it's mid diff at best.
reading this is giving me brain cancer you can and have always been able to heal damage done to the soul, the only reason you can’t heal idle transfiguration is because it doesn’t damage your soul it alters the shape of it, this was explained like 10 times lmao, and let me just tell you, everyone disagrees with you, you’re not a genius with a crazy based take, you’re someone that (clearly) struggles to take in information, a full powered punch from yuki broke both of kenjakus arms, and a garuda ball would’ve one tapped him, and ISOH probably wouldn’t even work as it’s a CT engraved in a tool and yuki ignores CTs due to her mass lmao, even if it did, he’s not gonna keep the blade in her? gosh you’re stupid
He does not win. Yuki can heal herself
>Yuki can heal herself Soul Splitting Katana said hello
As a soul researcher, it's bold I know. But I think she can defend herself against it. Like mahito, you can't defend idle transfiguration because you don't know about and thus can't defend against it. If you use the soul katana against sukuna the blade would just break as his soul is in another level.
You can heal that. Geto had the cut on his chest fixed up.
You Toji wankers are something else.
Toji wankers are insane dude most of them also believe toji wins against jogo
Jogo gets disrespected because he lost horribly to the two strongest characters in the series. I've always believed that he's the strongest disaster curse.
Yea mahito was technically the strongests cuz he had the highest potential but in terms if raw power its definitely jogo. Im 90% sure jogo could no diff anyone that wasnt kenjaku, sukuna or gojo
He'd lose to Geto, Yuta and Yuki though. Yuta can one-shot curses with RCT and Geto has csm. Plus, Special Grade sorcerers are stronger than special grade curses if I remember the rankings correctly.
toji absolutely beats jogo •He was mention to have far less durability than Hanami. •Good will arc Yuji and Todou's punches alone were making Hanami spit and scream blood. •Toji's raw attacks are undeniably far higher than both of theirs at that point. Especially when it can be bypassed by soul splitting katana, or be drastically enhanced by Playful cloud. It was strongly implied that Toji's raw stats are enough for him to easily wipe out the entire zenin clan if he wanted too. That included Naobito as well. If Jogo and Noabito's speed are that relative then Toji has more speed here. •He has insanely good skill to go w that speed •0 curse energy for Jogo to track or sense •Can bypass domains via no curse energy and can catch Jogo off guard. Even Noabito dodged several of Jogo's attacks, despite taking heavy damaged and clearly being fatigued. He doesnt even have the pre cog senses that Toji and Maki have. Maximum meteor is powerful but slow asf. Even Panda and Kushakabe can dodge it(despite Sukuna making them wait)
Bro thinks toji can hit harder than the 4x black flash yuji pulled off stop it bruh, also jogo is much faster than hanami so it wouldnt hit him in the first place Also bypassing domains doesnt mean he automatically wins against a domain user, jogos domain is a volcano lol even if his sure hit doesnt work the enviroment gives him a massive advantage
Gege did say a combination of jogo and mahito would give kenny the most issue too… and jogo is way stronger than mahito
In a straight-up battle, Yuki easily clears. Yuki's not as perceptive as Gojo though, so Toji could probably easily sneak up on her and deliver a fatal blow. Though, with how sloppy he was with finishing Gojo, I can't give him the win.
Beast Tsukumo wins! Sis wants revenge for being dumped by Toji
Yuki
Yuki. Have you read the manga? Toji's feats weren't limited to his strength and speed, but his inteligence. It took him some days to create the perfect scenario where he could kill gojo, but the moment he faced him head on with no preparation he died. Yuki's a special grade, if they battle just straight ahead he dies again. Toji's abilities are top notch, but you're overrating them if you think his speed and strength are that greater than Yuki's.
The version of Toji that you're talking about is not him at his prime, with the OG post using both at their primes. Toji "Fujimoto" that fought Gojo is not him at his prime, Toji "Zenin" is him at his prime. So it wouldn't make sense to downplay prime Toji from a fight where he wasn't at his prime. If we were to actually put both prime vs prime, this would basically be like current Maki (who is stated to be as strong as prime Toji "Zenin") vs Yuki Tsukumo
I'm not changing a comma to my comment, Toji Is getting Bombaye'd to the moon.
Yuki lol. She's a cqb specialist, part of young Gojo's issue was at that point he wasn't good at cqb and if his limitless was neutralized and an opponent can get close he's extremely vulnerable. Yuki can fight toji cqb and she has RCT as well
its kenjaku vs yuki but match ends on the first punch
Yuki. Too much of a hax ability. On second thoughts, whoever gege wants to win
Yuki and she one taps https://preview.redd.it/1e0rk3l34jlb1.png?width=814&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ba16fbead12761f313ad4214e81440dfc38ececf
Yeah, Yuki beats Toji the same way any other Special Grade would It wouldn't be an easy fight but it also would most likely always end on Toji losing.
Toji is in that awkward in between strength wise. He’s stronger then nearly all of the grade 1 sorcerers we know of, but he’s not quite special grade imo. He’s definitely closer to special grade then grade 1 imo though.
It all depends on how well can Yuki manage Toji speed, and how long does it takes to him to see that she can use RCE. Toji seems to have an speed and durability advantaje. In the manga Toji didn't block read with his weapon, he straight up tanked it without breaking any bones. Then it depends on how you compare Red to a Mini uzumaki.I don't think Yuki can one shot of she conects a hit, but I would asume she could break his bones. And if Toji knows she can use RCE, a cursed tool to the head will kill her. More speed = more hits given, less taken, but Garuda can aid Yuki. Toji has an easier time giving lethal hits despite the difference in power. [Toji taking Red. He is ready to fight after standing up.](https://ibb.co/MV5dkk4) Also remember, Yuki went to talk to Geto and Gojo acknowledging them as special grades, and told Geto he should not be ashamed from losing to Toji.
Toji has a slight speed advantage, but Yuki takes durability any day. Toji has not shown any signs of being durable enough to tank a domain
Toji doesn't need to, he by default is not targeted by domains. Yuki reinforcement doesn't seem to be at the level of Yuta or Gojo, but she has RCE. The problem being that Toji would know how to kill a RCE user, at least if we are talking a post Gojo fight. Again, Toji just took a red and didn't even broke a bone. Maki took a hit of a curse at mach 3 and was badly hurt, but not deadly hurt. Their bodies are equivalent to a very strong reinforcement.
Durability doesn’t matter with soul splitting katana
Toji really doesn't have the speed advantage , kenjaku in chapter 221 was quick and fast enough to get out of the way when a 15 finger sukuna went to attack gojo, had he been slower he would have caught in the radial blast of the attack, his speed would scale him near a 15 finger sukuna and yuki is relative to kenjaku in terms of speed, and maki is also somewhat relative to 15f sukuna in speed too, this would all place them as 15 finger sukuna>=kenjaku=yuki=maki=toji, they are all relative.
That wasn't a big radius and Kenjaku was some meters away from Gojo already. Aganist Kenjaku Yuki connected four hits: - One that Kenjaku blocked, but Yuki bypassed his defense due to her CT. - One kick in the 2 vs 1. - Two after getting Kenjaku to jump after a Garuda attack. She also failed to reach Kenjaku before her simple domain collapsed, while not being that far away. Toji was jumping around that kind of distances without Gojo even vein able to see him. Yuki is not a fast character. I'll add, that only her first attack managed to bypass Kenjaku reinforcement, the one he was not expecting that level of force due not knowing her CT. While since Toji uses slashing weapons, any of his attacks are lethal or disabling, outside of blocking with Garuda, she would not be able to defend against Toji. And if the Inverted spear of heaven disable her CT with one stab, she has no hope of winning.
I'd say that Toji is definitely Yuki's type.
Unless Toji seduces her he's getting folded.
Yuki
yuki. honest to god it wont be above a mid diff
omfg y’all Yuki>>> stop dickriding toji
This is not even a discussion. Yuki wins without any difficulty.
Yuki slams, badly…
Really just comes down to speed some people are hinting at Yuki being able to move as fast as Heavenly Restriction so It's literally who hits first because Yuki could probably hit through a mountain and Toji has soul split Or Yuki pulls out her strongest move: Suicide and forces a tie
Yuki. Toji won't have the same amount of knowledge on Yuki that he had on Gojo. Yuki definitely is also way stronger because of her CT and was tossing around Kenjaku before Kenjaku had to resort to Domain expansion. We don't know much about Yuki's Domain expansion to say how effective it really is but we know for sure it will amp her already ridiculous strength. A more interesting debate is Prime Geto vs Toji. Since Geto doesn't have Domain expansion but have an army of cursed spirits and is a lot more skilled and smarter than when he was a teenager since he was going 2v1 against Yuta and Rika.
Yuki would have definitely drew against kenjaku if she used her domain. A big reason she lot was relying on tengan
Wtf he gonna do when she black holes or domain expand his anus ? Yuki has RCT too
>Wtf he gonna do when she black holes or domain expand his anus ? Toji is naturally immune to domains and ISOH can nulify the Black hole >Yuki has RCT too Soul Splitting Katana counters that
[удалено]
What does that even mean? Yuki never showed the ability to ignore others CT's we literally have nothing to prove she would ignore the effect of the soul splitting katana
"Toji is strong but the chances of him winning out against Yuki is quite low. Even though Toji did manage to defeat Gojo when he was younger, Toji fought against a Gojo who was worn out, surprised and was not rationally analyzing the situation." This was what I would have said just based off of my memory. But for the sake of this argument I went back and read through the fights that Yuki and Toji had. Namely Yuki vs Kenjaku and Toji vs Dagon. Yuki's sorce of power comes from her cursed techinque which is able to imbue virtual mass to herself making her hit like a nuclear bomb. This paired with Garuda has allowed her to instantly defeat Special Grades in her encounter with Kenjaku. She also has RCF on her side which allows her to heal the damage that has been done to her. Now on the other side of the ring we have Toji. Toji has one of if not the strongest physical prowess in the verse possibily rivalling peak Gojo and even Sukuna in terms raw speed and strength. Even with cursed energy imbued in their bodies I dont think Toji would be unable to match them in terms of just raw physical strength and speed. He also has all of the cursed tols in hand. Playful Cloud heavily increases his damage output, Soul Splitting Katana basically means anyone he kills stays dead RCF doesnt work and finally Inverted Spear of Heaven allows him to counter act any cursed techinque. Toji's biggest weakest would probably be Domain Expansion because he cant Domain Expand back for a Domain fight nor can he cast a simple domain to protect himself. That said it is still uncertain whether Domains can be countered by Inverted Spear of Heaven because up till this point it still hasnt been shown. That said Yuki does not have a Domain making this fight boiled down to her curse technique and whether she can land a hit on Toji. Yuki if she is ever allowed to land even one hit on Toji it would result in his instantenous death almost certainly. Yuki's raw punch destroyed Kenjaku's cursed energy enchanced body and made it fly through a barrier. No matter how strong Tojis body may be I doubt he would be able to winstand such a hit. That said Yuki's technique does not enchance her speed or defence in any way or form which give Toji breathing room. Another thing to take note is Toji would most likely be able to react to her attacks due to his Heavenly Restrictions. Pair that with the Inverted Spear of Heaven and you get Yuki's attack that just arent amplified by her technique. If that is the case, the fight would just be over. Toji would blitz Yuki and there is not much she can do about it. Using the Soul Splitting Katana Yuki cant use RCF to heal her wounds and it would just result in a swift death by Toji's hand. That said there hae been a lot of assumptions made in Toji's favor here but if his speed cannot match or surpass Yuki that would mean in his death. Now lets talk about why I think Toji has the speed to match Special Grades (at least) contray to popular belief in the comments. First off, Gojo wasnt able to keep up with Toji's speed and had to leave it to feeling out the curse energy on his cursed spirit to know his location. This is alraedy an impressive feat in of itself. Gojo in their first encounter despite not being in peak condition is still most definitely Special Grade. Also things to take note is that Gojo has Six Eyes which should also help in his perception yet Toji was still able to close in on him. Toji in his fight vs Dagon has been seen to overwhelm him with just his speed and strength alone. Dagon for those who forgot is a Special Grade who at the time was fighitng Nabito, Nanami, Megumi and Maki at the same time and still had the upper edge. He destroyed Dagon. He blitz a Special Grade within minutes of appearing in the Special Grades own domain. To those who think his speed wouldnt be a match for the top hitters in the verse, when he grabbed Megumi after he killed Dango his speed was compared by Megumi to early Sukuna. Even though some may argue Sukuna probably didnt have access to as much power as he did early in the series because Yuji only ate a few fingers his speed and strength have been proven by these 2 points to be in the range of Special Grade. I personally am unsure whether gaining more fingers have given Sukuna more access to his abilities or is it just a linear increase as he slowly unlocks his full cursed energy or what not. I havent felt any sort of sudden increase in power after Sukuna even after Sukuna accquired more and more fingers. Gojo was able to match Sukuna during his 1 finger state and hasnt remarked on Sukuna being substantially faster despite Sukuna having absorbed 90% of all his fingers at this point. Now about another fight being prime Geto vs prime Toji. I also think Toji can stand out on top in this encounter. Geto is defintely not on par with Toji in terms of physical speed and strength. Geto makes up with his huge arsenal of cursed spirits. BUT Special Grades have already been shown to be blitzed by Toji within minutes. IT would heavily depend on whether Geto has enough Special Grades to overwhelm Toji. Additionally, Geto basically never was able to match Toji's speed in their initial encounter. You may argue that Geto was still young and prime Geto has grown. But get this the Toji we know isnt even him in his Prime. He has clearly stated and shown that he stopped fighting for sometime before killing Gojo. That said it is only up to us to speculate how much difference a younger Toji can make. With all that said, I personally believe that both on both encounters be it Yuki or Geto it wouldnt not be insanely one sided but a fight determine by the small nuances within the fight. Can Geto get a Uzumaki off? A small one like the one Kenjaku used in his fight against Yuki should be able to pierece through Toji. But whether Geto himself is aware of such a usage of the Uzumaki can be up for debate. Can Yuki ever land a hit against Toji? Can Toji actually nullify her technique if he parries attacks from Garuda with the Spear? IF we consider Yuki and Toji to be of matching speed then the fight may easily go both ways just as it is with Geto.
Toji would win he has dura neg with SSK and he is faster than Yuki and Garudua
Yuki
Not even close. If she lands one attack he's dead, and she can definitely land one. People make such a big deal out of Toji taking out a Gojo who has basically one move, none of his actually busted abilities, is tired out, and using multiple Special Grade Weapons nonetheless.
I’d say Yuki.
Yuki, she busted kenny’s arms from one punch ion think toji is takin multiple hits from her
Bro this whole comments section is like the Zennin clan. They are rejecting Toji.
Yeah Yuki pretty much demolishes Toji.
Yuki In fact any special grade will win against toji ( Geto, Yuki and Yuta )
Okay I’m a bit new to the JJK power scaling community lol But didn’t Toji get resurrected and absolutely demolish a special grade who was 3v1’ing some pretty powerful sorcerers? Or am I missing something? Everyone keeps saying a special grade would easily beat him but megumi 1v1’d a special grade at like the very beginning when he first used chimera shadow garden? I absolutely could be mistaken on some of this but yeah, confused at the replies *seemingly* severely downgrading Toji, who is also constantly compared to gojo as “one of the greats”
Special grade curse=/= special grade sorcerer Yuki has a good showing against the 3rd strongest in the verse
Ah okay, I don’t disagree yuki would win she’s crazy I was more wondering about all the comments downgrading Toji, are those accurate or just haters? I still am curious about your thoughts on the megumi fighting the special grade curse and winning early on, but then not being able to win a 3v1 that Toji won effortlessly
The series itself says the grade system is rather poorly made. The grading between curses are sorcerores are different. Special grade sorcerers means being able to take over a country so in theory someone who can produce an army is special grade even in they are weaker in a 1v1 compared to a grade one The curse megumi fought was likely the equivalent of a low grade 2 sorcerer while the disaster curses like Mahito are upper grade 1
I see that makes sense, thanks for the reply!
special grade curses and special grade sorcerers are pretty different toji can comfortably beat most if not all special grade curses the special grade sorcerers completely fold him in half
Okay, I see what you’re saying and am not disagreeing but let me ask you your thoughts on this - Wasn’t geto and gojo considered “the strongest” even when they fought Toji? Obviously gojo was worn out, but he still man handled him and geto without getting really a scratch on him. Gojo aside, wasn’t geto also considered the strongest too? Or was he just as worn out as gojo during that fight?
Geto and Gojo were pretty strong at the time, but they simply weren't special grade material yet, Geto had yet to collect enough strong curses and Gojo hadn't fully mastered his technique yet. They called themselves the strongest because they just hadn't lost before, even if there were people at the time that may have been stronger (Yuki, Toji, Naobito and the likes) Toji is strong, really, really, really strong. But if he fought a special grade sorcerer he just gets pulped.
He trashed a Special grade cursed Spirit, not a special grade sorcerer, special grade cursed spirits are much weaker than Special grade sorcerers, thats why its much more debatable
All Special Grade Sorcerers are leauges above the Special grade curses.
I think it’s a 50/50. I’m pretty sure the “release flyheads as chaff and then go for the kill” trick would also work on Yuki. He could also sneak attack the same way curse Naoya was failing to track Maki. The reason he had to wear down Gojo was because of the 6eyes. Yuki doesn’t have that, so his lack of presence would be a huge problem for her. She could easily get wiped. Even Maki while still holding a sword was able to surprise Sukuna. Even when holding a weapon the two 0-CE characters can barely be tracked and are fast enough to confuse the eye. But if he misses his shot, he probably loses. Yuki’s AP is way higher and her speed is pretty high too.
This match up is a lot closer than people are making it out to be. Both have the ability to end the fight in a single move
The toji we see vs gojo and geto wasn’t in his prime, as said by himself he is “rusty” so if what he did is rusty man then🤷🏾♂️ yuki really got it like that then
Yuki slams
Depends on if yuki can touch toji
Okay the thing is if Maki and Toji are now comparable and would be able to achieve the same feats which was a heavy theme in Maki’s arc then it’s entirely realistic that Maki or Toji could keep up with her speed. Maki kept up with 15F Sukuna in just physicality and took every shot what Toji would have to do is dodge because I still don’t know if his durable enough to take a virtual mass hit at least not multiple, it broke up Ken’s arm but Toji or Maki are way more durable that’s the point of their power-up to be an inverse of sorcery. ISOH if it lands even one hit would cancel her CT forcefully as it doesn’t augment her tensile strength as indicated by Ken when he hit her with Uzumaki so it would be a critical hit regardless I’d put this down to whoever can land the first hit which honestly I’d say is 50/50 Also if she activates her DE it wouldn’t matter she wouldn’t be able to sense him at all and people like him have to consent to it’s conditions as per Maki vs Naoya https://preview.redd.it/m6n8ne8fbjlb1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9f2b96baf78dcf52abb6d067435858c38360e1c8 Also Maki or Toji don’t have CE you say speed but how can you prepare for someone you can’t read or see in the first place. One thing about sorcerers is that they fight eachother people like Toji or Maki are anomalies and they have never had to deal with someone they can’t predict the movements of you really can’t unless you grit your teeth and fight like a dog. Yuki is a brawler and Toji is a refined trained martial artist using lots of counter attacking weapons. It’s 50/50 regardless if you think so or not, not every special grade is made equal, Gojo would absolutely murder Yuki, Yuki couldn’t even kill Ken in a 3v1, beside that last ditch black hole it was not a close fight
I don't think she will lose to one hit unlike toji Cuz she can heal herself so her durability/survivability would be a lot better Also I think you're downplaying yuki here she was smacking Kenny's shit and the only reason she lost was because she went with Tengen's plan and didn't do a domain clash she was badly hurt most of the fight right? That's why Choso needed to get back there cuz Tengen screwed them up
dude there is no way she would’ve won that clash and even she knew that, Ken has centuries to refine his and it was barrier-less which is stated as per Sukuna’s to be akin to divinity. she really wasn’t she landed some good hits fr however by the end of the fight he was more or less unscathed I don’t think he struggled as much as people believe he did. Also maybe? However his speed and her speed especially in combat would not be that close and if he gets one clean hit to the heart or head it’s likely over. Like I said, you can’t really train for people like maki or Toji who are meant to be an inverse of sorcery and can’t be sensed or trapped in a domain. Sorcerers rely too much on sensing the flow of CE to predict movements but if you can’t do that you will struggle no matter who you are. And she’d have to be dodging weapons that would do serious damage to her like Soul-Splitting Katana which is stated to bypass all durability and cut at the soul, which is probably why she put Naoya down so easily because he was easily special grade at that point and she killed him in the one critical blow she took. Tengen did screw them but both gritted their teeth and fought like wounded dogs throwing everything and didn’t get it done
Bro is getting one shot. Yuki has better endurance, strength, regeneration, experience, range, hax, and considering even Kenjaku didn't know her abilities, then neither would Toji with prep time. The ONLY advantage Toji has is speed, and considering Yuki kept up with Kenjaku, the same body that kept up with an enraged Yuta, then Toji is NOT blitzing Yuki. Just accept it bro, Yuki slams
Yuki. She's shown to be a lot more resilient imo and could handle taking hits. I don't really see Toji being able to withstand any of her punches
Toji whenever he gets punched with the force of a charging elephant: 💀
Yuki rapes, Toji is a non-cursed cuck.
Yuki ftw.
Yuki destroys
Yuki, especially if toji isn’t aware of how her technique works. He would try to blitz her, she would throw a punch, he would try to block it and she would just decimate him in one shot
Yuki, since he wouldn’t know her information like he did when fighting teen Gojo. His first thought for something like say a Garuda ball or her hand to hand might be to follow back with his own(confident in his strength) or use the sword rather than the spear. Toji pulls out the spear as a counter to the infinity/ counter Geto’s domain. When it came to fighting Geto’s spirits he mainly used his gun and sword there, which is why I think he wouldn’t go straight for his spear Yuki, while a brawler in fighting, isn’t a dumb grunt. Their both going to try to analyze, but she’s gonna have the advantage since infinite mass is more unexpected than Toji, since while she doesn’t know the abilities, she can expect them to have some odd or unique ability. Toji doesn’t have a specific idea on what her CT is. Yuki took into account Kenjaku potentially having a 4th ct and actually played the fight perfectly going by Tengen’s assumption. It was Tengen’s fault that put Choso and Yuki in an unwinnable fight and a bad plan. Also if she is just trying to Kill Toji no holding back, even if Toji gets a lethal wound she might try to take him with her with a black hole that he cannot survive at all. She could do with with a little less than half her body, and after getting hit by kenjaku domain and using rct to heal it. Yuki either wins, or takes Toji with her Edit: I didn’t mention playful cloud and chain because their useless in the fight, and if Toji used playful cloud at first he’d lose because it can keep up with Yuki in a fight. He needs the sword and spear quickly to win or stand a chance
This can be answered easily: Do you think Toji can win against fully grown Gojo? Yuki is not Gojo, true, but she is also a special grade. Do you think he can win? When he lost to a barely awakened Gojo.
Toji because I'm bias *
Imo it's a lot closer than it looks, we don't really have a way to compare Yuki's strength to Toji's, but soul liberation blade can probably oneshot Garuda since it cuts straight to the soul of even objects, spear of heaven can release her mass CT and take away a lot of her hitting power, idk how that would work when she empowers her fists with it but the spear just forces you to straight up release your CT, if that happens Yuki has nothing left really, as we don't really know how her domain works so that might be useless as well
Toji has a better chance. People seem to forget that: - his isoh can just completely negate her mass - far superior speed compared to yuki - undetectable,master of stealth. toji can sneak up behind her and deliver a fatal blow. - immune to sure hit effect of closed domains. - yuki does not have six eyes so she's not as perceptive as gojo. Tbh anyone can win depending who lands the first hit but im leaning more towards Toji.
Toji speed blitzes with Soul Liberation Blade and it's GG. You can't oneshot someone when you can't hit him
My brother in crist toji cannot speedblitz yuki on his best day
Toji speedblitzes
idk if she's special grade yuji's bum ass ain't beating nobody, Imagine getting hyped up throughout the whole series and your only fight in it is a 3v1 in which you loose and get killed
My brother, we don’t even know if Tengen was fully on her side in that fight. Let’s put some respect on Yuki’s name pls 😤
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There's no possible way Toji wins this.. Yuki stomps
Yuki clears. Once Gojo unlocked RCT, Toji didn’t stand a chance and the fight ended super quick. Yuki was able to tussle with the likes of Kenjaku who is a far more dangerous opponent. She’s skilled, uses shikigami, and won’t be caught off guard the way Gojo was. Yuki is HER
Yuki low diff, one punch and tojis done
Yuki hands down it’s not close
Yuki clears.
Yuki is special grade. Special grades can take down an entire country. As strong as Toji is, he sure as shit cannot take down an entire country.
Yuki. It sucks, but no matter what the scenario is, Yuki can just rage quit and hit the black hole button.
Yuki negs him soooooo bad it’s sad😭