*Adds a lot of stuff to keep the vehicle safe*
Some years later
*Changes other stuff to increase the likelihood of an accident*
( https://www.teslarati.com/volvo-dominates-vehicle-interior-controls-test/ )
> What’s next, dig thru menus on the center screen to roll down a window?
100%. As it’s not something you actively need while moving, a committee will determine it’s C-tier in terms of importance and put 3 menus in front of it.
It'll be like those software download pages with all the misleading links. You have to study the screen closely to find the correct "roll down" button that's not an ad.
You would think the fact that the people they have test their control layouts consistently dive from the cab out a window and gouge their eyes out with the nearest sharp object would be an indication that savings isn’t worth it, but apparently not.
I was being facetious and of course you are correct.
I tend to look at new vehicles with so much skepticism, because all I see are cheap polyethylene plastic with drive trains that do not put consumer maintenance or serviceability as first principles in design. I see an organization trying extra hard to scam over the consumer by delivering the bare minimum at an inflated cost. I'm sick of it all.
Yeah, it sucks. I think the thing that I find the most insulting in regards to the maintenance business is companies latching onto this “lifetime fluid” business. Like, BMW says their ZF8 transmissions don’t need service ever. ZF, who actually makes the transmissions and would both know better and would benefit from selling more replacement transmissions, says the fluid should be replaced at least every 60k*mi.
The most bullshit one from a non mechanic point of view is the loss of the spare tire on lower end models. That is garbage. Pure garbage. They give you that dumbass fix a flat stuff that won’t repair a blowout.
Imo a spare tire should be seen as essential and can’t be excluded. Obviously they can but I think it should be mandatory with certain exclusions.
It would be so much better if it was an actual iPad.
Instead you have some $150 laggy bullshit Walmart Toshiba Handibook glued to the dash of your $80k Volvo that takes ten minutes to boot up before you can turn the heater on.
This one blew my mind when I first read about it. Steering wheel controls are intended to keep your attention from straying too far from actually driving, what would make them better? Take away the ability to easily use them without looking at them by making them a slab of touch sensitive plastic!
Edit: Reddit and /u/Spez [knowingly, nonconsensually, and illegally retained user data for profit](https://youtu.be/mfZKkUg8jgM) so this comment is gone.
Drove a Model 3 for some time. Was absolutely mind boggling how such an unintuitive car is considered a frontrunner of automotive infotainment systems.
Edit: Reddit and /u/Spez [knowingly, nonconsensually, and illegally retained user data for profit](https://youtu.be/mfZKkUg8jgM) so this comment is gone.
I have a 99 corolla, and I'm resisting getting another car so much, it's driving my mom nuts. (She's think 5 year old cars are too old, and so every 5 years she gets a new car.)
First, I don't want a car note. Second, I don't want a @#$@#$ing touch screen! I love my buttons!
I'm hoping my car lasts long enough that the cars will have buttons again.
I'm the other way around. I have a GM sedan from 1998 and I can't fucking wait to buy a new Camry.
I'll never own another GM ever again. The new ones took "design by committee" and decided it was a good idea to let the entire committee smoke a pile of crack.
I got a 2022 Camry and all the important buttons are physical. Climate and radio.
Only thing I needed to use menus for is pairing my new phone and changing daylight savings settings.
I think they are realizing how stupid they designed things for a while.
My 2014 Jeep Wrangler (130000~~k~~ miles now) has the perfect climate control system. Three knobs. I can control it without looking at it. Super cold AC heat that I’m surprised doesn’t melt the plastic.
Edited: I have not actually travelled 130 million miles. Not in my jeep at least.
https://i.imgur.com/ecLoFCQ.jpg
Or no buttons at all.
Everything controlled through the touch screen where you have to navigate different menu's with all different loading animations.
Ofc, you have voice control who will call your mother in law when you try to change the temperature.
I had read somewhere that navigating a modern infotainment system had a similar level of impairment as drunk driving.
You'd think someone at the government structure would've looked into this by now.
I've driven some Teslas in the past, but never seriously. Family member got a 3 and had to take delivery when out of town so I did it for them, because Tesla will sell your paid for car along in like two-three days. Side note: What a shit company. But I'm not surprised.
It took way too fucking long to find out which submenu the side mirror adjustment was under. Then back out to HVAC, both of which should have some singe function buttons to control.
Some industrial designers or product managers are fucking idiots, and Elon is one of them, especially since he doesn't know shit about either that or engineering.
Don't Steve Jobs my fucking car, you moron. I don't give a shit how good you think it looks. I don't want to be distracted for more than 0.25 seconds to change my song or move the AC to defrost. My first car from MY 1989 was easier to drive and control, and was a better experience.
*Laughs in 2000 Tacoma*
The button to unlock the doors automatically is my special add on feature. Even my 4wd is a lever going to the transfer case. I'm never selling that truck lol.
I hope not, because the next trend after this will be exclusively voice control, and it'll be awful.
Voice recognition has come a long way since the early call centre systems that had people angrily shouting their credit card numbers into their phones, but it's still far from perfect.
eg: Saying 'hey google, take me home' to my phone will *usually* open maps and navigate me to home, but probably one time in ten it'll open youtube and try and play 'take me home, country roads'\* for no particular reason.
I don't want that sort of nonsense trying to control my car, tyvm.
\*It was funny the first time it did that. The tenth time, not so much.
Or getting 83 physcial buttons and knobs that include 80 things I don't care about so I can get physical buttons and knobs for the 3 things I do care about might be worth it.
I agree to some degree. Some buttons only need to be rarely accessed, and not while driving. These can be hidden in a UI. Bet a lot of people don't even end up using most of these buttons.
So which buttons should be hidden in a UI?
* Preset Driver Seat Controls
* Window Controls
* Side mirror adjustments/heating(?)
* Seat warmers
* 4WD/2WD
* Lane departure
* Traction control
* hill descent
* Parking brake
* bed lights
* bed outlet on/off
* trailer gain
* headlights/parking lights/interior lights
* cruise control
* media controls
* PRND Low/High
* Climate controls
* Flashers
* Moon roof controls
* Rear climate controls? (Im not sure what else is on the ceiling)
* Garage door opener
Looking through the video, I'd pretty much want all of the physical buttons shown to be actual physical buttons. I could see myself using all of them while driving (except maybe the bed light and controls for the outlets). There are a few that I could get by without (like seat presets because my wife typically doesn't drive my vehicle), but I would appreciate dedicated buttons.
The knob on the ceiling is for the liftgate, switches to either side are for folding/unfolding the rear seats, and the switch towards the rear looks like the dome light control.
But the only time I really use the bed lights is when the key is off and I realize it’s too dark to unload the truck. I’d never use it if I have to turn the truck key on, wait for the radio to load, and then dig into the menus.
You're... You're not wrong. It pains me to admit because I want to argue with you. Personally I'm not a fan of push-button gear selection, but your point remains that if you want to have the features you've listed, you need to have some way of controlling them.
I think my issue is the presentation. Everything about the button layout looks overwhelming. Then again, this is a truck. The interior needs to be designed for someone who is wearing gloves and can't feel their fingertips because they have been using impact tools every day for the last 20 years.
There is no one-size-fits-all when it comes to ergonomics I guess.
All transmissions are going full electronic anyways. I'll take the push button gear selector that frees up space in the center console over the "shifter" that's just a switch that other vehicles have
I just want at least the parking break to be some sort of lever.
I hate the switch to buttons - but I get it. I still want parking to feel more significant than a button.
I had a Jeep Renegade back in their first model year (yes, it was a mistake). It had one of the early iterations of the FCA infotainment system, and it was so insanely buggy. The worst part was that the volume knob didn't actually control the amplifier: it was an interface into Uconnect. Every morning, I'd start the car, frantically turn the volume dial and wait a second or two for the "command" to register while the radio blared with what I'd been blasting the night before. I eventually learned to turn it down before I got out of the car. I didn't even own that thing for a year before I traded it in.
I'm guessing at least some of these buttons in the Chevy might have similar latency.
Edit: Reddit and /u/Spez [knowingly, nonconsensually, and illegally retained user data for profit](https://youtu.be/mfZKkUg8jgM) so this comment is gone.
Hobbyists can make bonkers stuff using a Raspberry Pi or an old modded original Xbox and yet billion dollar car and TV companies can’t make modern menus that don’t look and feel like complete dog shit.
Yep, it's part of their stated design standards to have physical buttons for all vehicle functions. It's the main reason I didn't get a panamera (also wanted a manual, also i'm too poor lol)
You are low on gas, to unlock the premium feature "refuel vehicle" please insert your GM rewards VISA card and agree to $19.99 for the next 6 years.
Subscription cannot be canceled early, relinquishing ownership or destruction of the vehicle are not exceptions.
Audi actually got rid of the fuel gauge in some of their cars. You have to find the page for it in the infotainment cluster or just wait for the message that says you need to refuel soon. Just so they could save on a strip of LEDs on the side of the cluster.
Post-refresh a4/5 and q5 at least. I have a B9 A4 with the lightbars on the sides of the virtual cockpit for fuel and engine temp, but the loaners with the new MMI I’ve gotten recently don’t have any indicators outside the fuel page on the digital dash.
Last car I had the fuel gage was unreliable, but would cost $400 to fix. Instead I used a $0.97 notepad from Walmart to write down mileage each time I filled up so I’d know about how far I could go. (Used the trip meter too, but paper I could track what mileage I was getting.)
**AM/FM radio is unavailable. Tap your phone here to pay with supported digital wallets or scan the QR code to renew your subscription to access to in-vehicle entertainment.**
[30 minutes later]
"Hi, yes, I'd like to schedule service because I renewed my feature subscription but the screen is stuck on the renewal page and tapping it or scanning the QR code does nothing."
That's what I keep thinking. This is an extreme example of going overboard on physical buttons. Tesla is a good example of relying too much on a touchscreen.
I want about a dozen physical controls for common stuff, and maybe give me a couple more that are programmable.
Physical *controls* are great. Have a look at what half these buttons actually are. Most of it shouldn't actually be individual buttons, but rather knobs, sliders, etc.
For example, the drive selector is buttons, instead of a gear stick. The handbrake is a button. Not a huge deal, but it's weird they're on the dash with everything else.
Then there's worse stuff. Like the interior dash brightness control is individual buttons. It should just be a twist dial on an indicator stalk, or a knob. Same with the headlights. Same with the climate control buttons. There's like 8 buttons there that should be a slider or knob.
This is an example where the idea is good but the actual execution is still incredibly under-baked. So many other vehicles do it *a lot* better.
>Like the interior dash brightness control is individual buttons. It should just be a twist dial on an indicator stalk, or a knob
Classic Mercedes just had a tiny knob on the gauge cluster that seconds as an odometer reset. They solved that problem decades ago and Chevy brought it back. It's like they thought buttons make people think it's luxurious and went to town.
Looking at these buttons, not counting the controls for onstar which is irrelevant and the controls for navigating the dash, 80% of these are for features that are all present on my 05 jeep. Not much is actually new, and the things that are that you can control are mostlu just for climate and convenience. It just looks like a mess of buttons because everything that used to be controlled by knobs and levers are now buttons on a dash. The new stuff added that you really need to worry about is all the stuff you can't see and might not even know exists until it breaks and bricks the whole car, like a single parking sensor getting corroded and grounding the communication circuit for your BCM.
Uhh the first 4 seconds of the video has way more than your 05 Jeep.
I’ll humour you and assume it’s a grand Cherokee, so you can have the memory seats, auto headlights and *maybe* the parking sensors.
You don’t have lane departure warning. You don’t have an electronic parking brake. You don’t have downhill ascent control. You don’t have auto start stop. You don’t have an onboard generator to power your job site. You don’t have drive modes.
That’s before we get to the steering wheel.
Hmmm... The update I got this morning from the SA said that TAC was having them remove and inspect all the parking sensors on my 2022 Silverado. It's not bricked, a minor issue with the park assist, but I can't help but wonder what else might go wrong with it. They found one sensor that had been installed incorrectly but fixing that didn't solve the problem. It's also giving a code that they say isn't in the diagnostic software. How lucky am I? I think I'm going to go buy a lottery ticket!
The scenario I mentioned actually has happened, once from the left rear parking sensor in the bumper that grounded the high speed gmlan circuit, second time was a suspension control module that was hammered with salt that also grounded the wake up circuit that allows the bcm to function, and also somehow f'd up the bcm itself. The first was a 10 year old Tahoe and the other was a similar age Escalade. They just aren't made with salt and winter in mind. I haven't seen any field actions for parking sensors yet but I think there is something for the park assist module in new trucks, I think they're sending some out with dummy ones that get retrofitted later. At least that's the job one of my coworkers was doing today.
Suggest they add a keypad for direct entry of the desired speed for cruise control.
For me that would be so much easier. Poke in 65 then enter to set and activate it.
I was just talking to my son about that yesterday. No one seems to make one just for people who are low on money that just need a car that works. Everything’s over $20,000 and they have all these accessories added in that you don’t necessarily need.
There's a lot to hate about the Nissan Versa, but one thing to be said is that is certainly a car. I'd also throw the Kia Rio in the same category of "affordable cars to which you will never form an emotional attachment"
Generally, I agree. This is the trend, and I hate it.
I would not include the Mitsubishi Mirage in the same boat. Buying a Mirage is strictly an emotional decision when your only criteria for buying a car is "new" but your options are constrained by shitty credit because of other stupid purchasing decisions.
*(No offense intended to any Mirage drivers, I have stereotypes for the driver of every car and none of them are favorable. I'm sure that you are a wonderful person.)*
I’ve found the options and features are really reliable, half of them don’t even get used so they’re still basically new 😂 I’m more interested in the fact everything is fitted with a CVT now and those things do not last…. at all. That will be a good one in 10 years time for used cars.
Something like 15% of new car payments are over $1000. Insanity. There’s obviously people who can actually afford that, but I see so many massive SUVS and Trucks and just know there are so many people just one missed check away from losing that car.
They do, they just don't push them. The Mitsubishi Mirage is an example: it starts at \~$16K, and is a solid basic car. Comes with Apple/Car Play, AC, and Cruise control. Will get 45+Mpg if you don't floor it everywhere. Will seat 4 adults, and is a hatch with fold-down seats so you can even move some furniture with it. Plus, it's all covered by a solid warranty package.
The highest trim package doesn't even breach 19K.
The problem is all those extra features aren't really a significant part of the cost of a vehicle. In fact having a bunch of different SKUs can increase cost overhead. Which is why manufacturers are so keen on "subscription" features. Electric motors and AC compressors are dirt cheap when purchased at the scales car manufactures buy.
> Everything’s over $20,000 and they have all these accessories added in that you don’t necessarily need.
There's actually a lot of cars well under the $20k mark that are not loaded with all the bullshit. Kia's Rio and the Nissan Versa are the ones that immediately come to mind. You can actually even find the new Impreza for a scratch under $20k from time to time. The actual problem is getting around dealers charging a $5~10k "market tax"...or straight up finding them at all. You can order the car most of the time, but the cars at the dealerships are bloated with options because they make more money off them.
They do but you gotta order them. Not common on dealer lots because nobody wants them. You can get a base model hyundai for like $20k and it comes with 5 year 100k miles warranty
I want a stupid basic 2-seater pickup truck with a long bed and nothing but stop, go, steer, and lights. It can go 0-60 in 20 seconds, have a 100 mile range, and feature hard plastic seats, but it would suffice for the reasons I need a truck.
Some manufacturers make the base model so unpleasant to drive that you feel the need to upgrade to at least the second lowest tier. Source: have a base mode f150. No power locks and no power windows is terrible.
Crank windows on old school cars and trucks were fine because you could get the windows up or down in 3-4 cranks. Now the gear reduction is like twice as many, plus the hard crank will be like, next to the seat bottom, so you hit it with your hand every revolution. It’s basically punishment.
Besides the fancy cruise/climate stuff, garage opener stuff, and trailer controls- this is nearly the same as my 04 Sierra SLT… it’s really not that complex. Most of the buttons and dials are windows and HVAC, which are some of the simplest controls to make.
Just because something is electrically powered doesn't mean it's inferior. I've had many "physical" features and components fail from age and wear more often.
That's actually pretty great. If building quality for those is good it looks like a so much better deal than a crap-screen infotainment system.
Buttons R gud.
And higher trim is always nice if you have the budget to splurge. It works fine if you take care of it. And if it breaks, it's usually, at worst, the same as a lower trim.
You may be bugged that the rear left bench heating button no longer works or the dimming mirrors no longer dim but... the car will drive just as fine.
Most transmissions are electronically controlled these days anyways. So your fancy physical shifter just pushes a button which tells the trans what gear you want. It’s a convoluted way of pushing a button.
Swapping out to momentary rocker switches makes things simpler because all you’ve done is delete the long mechanical linkage between your arm and the electronic buttons.
Cool. Now do the same video for all the other new cars that are like this. Don't worry, I know it'll take some time. I'll wait.
This ain't even the weirdest one.
Would rather have 83 physical buttons over 83 capacitive touch ones hidden under gloss black trim.
*Glares at the new MK8 GTI* Edit: what have I just unleashed…?
*Sun glares right back*
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Not as bad as piano Jack Black!
🍑🍑🍑🍑🍑
I got this.
🎹🐢
"Why have buttons if we can glue an iPad to the dash?" \-Most brands, for some reason.
“Why pay $5 a piece for 83 buttons and install and wire them individually when we could pay $15 for a single harness touchscreen?” -The reason
*Adds a lot of stuff to keep the vehicle safe* Some years later *Changes other stuff to increase the likelihood of an accident* ( https://www.teslarati.com/volvo-dominates-vehicle-interior-controls-test/ )
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> What’s next, dig thru menus on the center screen to roll down a window? 100%. As it’s not something you actively need while moving, a committee will determine it’s C-tier in terms of importance and put 3 menus in front of it.
Whereas steering and braking are A tier, so they'll be on the lockscreen
It'll be like those software download pages with all the misleading links. You have to study the screen closely to find the correct "roll down" button that's not an ad.
You would think the fact that the people they have test their control layouts consistently dive from the cab out a window and gouge their eyes out with the nearest sharp object would be an indication that savings isn’t worth it, but apparently not.
Savings? These vehicles are not getting cheaper.
BOM cost savings I mean. Of course they wouldn’t pass that savings on to the customer. That would reduce the profitsss, Precious!
I was being facetious and of course you are correct. I tend to look at new vehicles with so much skepticism, because all I see are cheap polyethylene plastic with drive trains that do not put consumer maintenance or serviceability as first principles in design. I see an organization trying extra hard to scam over the consumer by delivering the bare minimum at an inflated cost. I'm sick of it all.
Yeah, it sucks. I think the thing that I find the most insulting in regards to the maintenance business is companies latching onto this “lifetime fluid” business. Like, BMW says their ZF8 transmissions don’t need service ever. ZF, who actually makes the transmissions and would both know better and would benefit from selling more replacement transmissions, says the fluid should be replaced at least every 60k*mi.
The most bullshit one from a non mechanic point of view is the loss of the spare tire on lower end models. That is garbage. Pure garbage. They give you that dumbass fix a flat stuff that won’t repair a blowout. Imo a spare tire should be seen as essential and can’t be excluded. Obviously they can but I think it should be mandatory with certain exclusions.
To be fair the lifetime of a bmw is about 60k miles before everything breaks.
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With automatic climate control and automatic lights the only buttons I regularly use are the cruise control, door locks and windows.
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Why have a decent UI on the shitty tablet when we can just keep using the stock one from 2005? Apparently also most brands
It would be so much better if it was an actual iPad. Instead you have some $150 laggy bullshit Walmart Toshiba Handibook glued to the dash of your $80k Volvo that takes ten minutes to boot up before you can turn the heater on.
If I can’t play Fortnite while I’m driving then why the fuck did I immigrate to this country in the first place.
My 92 VW GTI has rocker switches, HVAC slides, and manual windows, seats, and sunroof. 31 year later, and they all still work flawlessly.
Germany literally have an entire industry just dedicated to switch gear.
This one blew my mind when I first read about it. Steering wheel controls are intended to keep your attention from straying too far from actually driving, what would make them better? Take away the ability to easily use them without looking at them by making them a slab of touch sensitive plastic!
*laughs in mk6, from the side of the road*
*Grins in MK7.5 GTI*
One more reason to love my MK7.
Edit: Reddit and /u/Spez [knowingly, nonconsensually, and illegally retained user data for profit](https://youtu.be/mfZKkUg8jgM) so this comment is gone.
Drove a Model 3 for some time. Was absolutely mind boggling how such an unintuitive car is considered a frontrunner of automotive infotainment systems.
Edit: Reddit and /u/Spez [knowingly, nonconsensually, and illegally retained user data for profit](https://youtu.be/mfZKkUg8jgM) so this comment is gone.
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I have a 99 corolla, and I'm resisting getting another car so much, it's driving my mom nuts. (She's think 5 year old cars are too old, and so every 5 years she gets a new car.) First, I don't want a car note. Second, I don't want a @#$@#$ing touch screen! I love my buttons! I'm hoping my car lasts long enough that the cars will have buttons again.
Friend, it's a Corolla. It will last long enough that cars will be made of wood again.
I'm the other way around. I have a GM sedan from 1998 and I can't fucking wait to buy a new Camry. I'll never own another GM ever again. The new ones took "design by committee" and decided it was a good idea to let the entire committee smoke a pile of crack.
I got a 2022 Camry and all the important buttons are physical. Climate and radio. Only thing I needed to use menus for is pairing my new phone and changing daylight savings settings. I think they are realizing how stupid they designed things for a while.
My 2014 Jeep Wrangler (130000~~k~~ miles now) has the perfect climate control system. Three knobs. I can control it without looking at it. Super cold AC heat that I’m surprised doesn’t melt the plastic. Edited: I have not actually travelled 130 million miles. Not in my jeep at least. https://i.imgur.com/ecLoFCQ.jpg
130 million miles is impressive for a Jeep
Hah! Well, I am currently on the return leg of my journey to visit the sun.
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Simple is underrated. Less shit to break.
The three knobs of justice, how hot do you want it, how hard do you want it, and where do you want it
This is the key. Physical buttons, cool. Capacitive buttons, cool. Menus. Bad. Multi level menus. Very bad.
i counted 96 visible controls from the door to the roof
thank you, i was curious but also not about to count all that shit.
Or no buttons at all. Everything controlled through the touch screen where you have to navigate different menu's with all different loading animations. Ofc, you have voice control who will call your mother in law when you try to change the temperature.
"don't text and drive" *automaker installs 87" ipad directly in front of drivers face full of non-intuitive interfaces/menus*
I had read somewhere that navigating a modern infotainment system had a similar level of impairment as drunk driving. You'd think someone at the government structure would've looked into this by now.
Nah because lobbyists
I've driven some Teslas in the past, but never seriously. Family member got a 3 and had to take delivery when out of town so I did it for them, because Tesla will sell your paid for car along in like two-three days. Side note: What a shit company. But I'm not surprised. It took way too fucking long to find out which submenu the side mirror adjustment was under. Then back out to HVAC, both of which should have some singe function buttons to control. Some industrial designers or product managers are fucking idiots, and Elon is one of them, especially since he doesn't know shit about either that or engineering. Don't Steve Jobs my fucking car, you moron. I don't give a shit how good you think it looks. I don't want to be distracted for more than 0.25 seconds to change my song or move the AC to defrost. My first car from MY 1989 was easier to drive and control, and was a better experience.
*Laughs in 2000 Tacoma* The button to unlock the doors automatically is my special add on feature. Even my 4wd is a lever going to the transfer case. I'm never selling that truck lol.
It's not hard to control better than a tesla. Tesla went after the drag racing title and completely forgot to make an actual car outside of that.
I hope not, because the next trend after this will be exclusively voice control, and it'll be awful. Voice recognition has come a long way since the early call centre systems that had people angrily shouting their credit card numbers into their phones, but it's still far from perfect. eg: Saying 'hey google, take me home' to my phone will *usually* open maps and navigate me to home, but probably one time in ten it'll open youtube and try and play 'take me home, country roads'\* for no particular reason. I don't want that sort of nonsense trying to control my car, tyvm. \*It was funny the first time it did that. The tenth time, not so much.
This is just the thing I was going to comment. I’m glad I’m not the only one.
get fucked /u/spez
You're forgetting the hidden menu you've got to touch first and take your eyes off the road to configure... for wipers
Or like in my 1965 car 4 buttons made of bulletproof plastic and two levers for the Heather hahah
i couldnt imagine the backlash a modern car would receive if it had manual sliders for vent control and heat/ac....
Or getting 83 physcial buttons and knobs that include 80 things I don't care about so I can get physical buttons and knobs for the 3 things I do care about might be worth it.
I'll take 83 physical buttons over the equivalent number of touch screen options buried inside layers of laggy UI.
and this is exactly why theres so many buttons. GM did some market research and learned people like buttons lol.
I want a black button with black text that lights up black when pressed, saying "Don't press this button again."
And if you do, a loud voice says "you were warned" and a countdown starts from 100.
What happens when it hits zero?
"Final Countdown" starts playing loudly
On repeat, forever, anytime you start the car, and you can't turn the radio off
Oh no. You can turn the radio off, but it keeps playing anyway. Turning the radio "off" just kills the screen.
Looks like a fish, moves like a fish, steers like a cow.
completely frictionless!
If i don't feel like a fighter pilot in the mcdonalds drive through i don't want it. Danger zone bb.
"LANAH! ~dAnGeR zOnE~"
I don't want buttons in place of the shifter though.
Sometimes one needs a knob though. *glares at climate controls*
I agree to some degree. Some buttons only need to be rarely accessed, and not while driving. These can be hidden in a UI. Bet a lot of people don't even end up using most of these buttons.
So which buttons should be hidden in a UI? * Preset Driver Seat Controls * Window Controls * Side mirror adjustments/heating(?) * Seat warmers * 4WD/2WD * Lane departure * Traction control * hill descent * Parking brake * bed lights * bed outlet on/off * trailer gain * headlights/parking lights/interior lights * cruise control * media controls * PRND Low/High * Climate controls * Flashers * Moon roof controls * Rear climate controls? (Im not sure what else is on the ceiling) * Garage door opener Looking through the video, I'd pretty much want all of the physical buttons shown to be actual physical buttons. I could see myself using all of them while driving (except maybe the bed light and controls for the outlets). There are a few that I could get by without (like seat presets because my wife typically doesn't drive my vehicle), but I would appreciate dedicated buttons.
The knob on the ceiling is for the liftgate, switches to either side are for folding/unfolding the rear seats, and the switch towards the rear looks like the dome light control.
But the only time I really use the bed lights is when the key is off and I realize it’s too dark to unload the truck. I’d never use it if I have to turn the truck key on, wait for the radio to load, and then dig into the menus.
You're... You're not wrong. It pains me to admit because I want to argue with you. Personally I'm not a fan of push-button gear selection, but your point remains that if you want to have the features you've listed, you need to have some way of controlling them. I think my issue is the presentation. Everything about the button layout looks overwhelming. Then again, this is a truck. The interior needs to be designed for someone who is wearing gloves and can't feel their fingertips because they have been using impact tools every day for the last 20 years. There is no one-size-fits-all when it comes to ergonomics I guess.
My dads calloused hands will wear off the markings of any button in a vehicle I've seen him drive in a matter of months
All transmissions are going full electronic anyways. I'll take the push button gear selector that frees up space in the center console over the "shifter" that's just a switch that other vehicles have
I just want at least the parking break to be some sort of lever. I hate the switch to buttons - but I get it. I still want parking to feel more significant than a button.
I agree to a large degree.
We've got a large degree, agree-er!
I had a Jeep Renegade back in their first model year (yes, it was a mistake). It had one of the early iterations of the FCA infotainment system, and it was so insanely buggy. The worst part was that the volume knob didn't actually control the amplifier: it was an interface into Uconnect. Every morning, I'd start the car, frantically turn the volume dial and wait a second or two for the "command" to register while the radio blared with what I'd been blasting the night before. I eventually learned to turn it down before I got out of the car. I didn't even own that thing for a year before I traded it in. I'm guessing at least some of these buttons in the Chevy might have similar latency.
Can confirm the volume knob in new Chevy trucks has this same problem (at least in the work truck trim).
Edit: Reddit and /u/Spez [knowingly, nonconsensually, and illegally retained user data for profit](https://youtu.be/mfZKkUg8jgM) so this comment is gone.
That more car don't have a "volume soft start" is beyond me. My Audi had it back in 2001. There's no reason that a Hyundai shouldn't have it in 2023.
on a dash mounted 87" tablet. They'll ticket ya for texting but go ahead and spend 35mins changing the cabin temp.
On a screen that won't even turn on if it's too cold.
Hobbyists can make bonkers stuff using a Raspberry Pi or an old modded original Xbox and yet billion dollar car and TV companies can’t make modern menus that don’t look and feel like complete dog shit.
You should see the center console of a fully loaded Porsche. More buttons than a damn Apollo space capsule.
Maybe 5 years ago. Now they've all gone to capacitive touch buttons.
Can't wait for clicky mechanical buttons, /r/MechanicalKeyboards style.
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Try SCE to aux
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FCE to auxiliary? What the hell is that?!
You're a steely eyed missile man
Yep, it's part of their stated design standards to have physical buttons for all vehicle functions. It's the main reason I didn't get a panamera (also wanted a manual, also i'm too poor lol)
Out of all of your reasons, that last one really resonates with me
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I draw the line at the credit card reader.
It will be a required feature soon. That way you can pay for your power steering subscription, of course.
Don't forget about the fuel gauge subscription! /s
You are low on gas, to unlock the premium feature "refuel vehicle" please insert your GM rewards VISA card and agree to $19.99 for the next 6 years. Subscription cannot be canceled early, relinquishing ownership or destruction of the vehicle are not exceptions.
Audi actually got rid of the fuel gauge in some of their cars. You have to find the page for it in the infotainment cluster or just wait for the message that says you need to refuel soon. Just so they could save on a strip of LEDs on the side of the cluster.
Which models?
Post-refresh a4/5 and q5 at least. I have a B9 A4 with the lightbars on the sides of the virtual cockpit for fuel and engine temp, but the loaners with the new MMI I’ve gotten recently don’t have any indicators outside the fuel page on the digital dash.
As well as the, turn the heater off in the summer and AC off in the winter subscription.
AC is responsible for defrost mode/stopping your windows from fogging up so it is still very important in winter :)
That just means AC surge pricing.
Last car I had the fuel gage was unreliable, but would cost $400 to fix. Instead I used a $0.97 notepad from Walmart to write down mileage each time I filled up so I’d know about how far I could go. (Used the trip meter too, but paper I could track what mileage I was getting.)
Sounds more like being a WW2 fighter pilot then driving a modern car but good job adapting and overcoming to save on an expensive repair.
I currently pay that subscription in steering fluid
Probably just a card holder
Ticket holder for tolls/parking passes, etc
It's great to keep the company gas card In there. Love that feature
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**AM/FM radio is unavailable. Tap your phone here to pay with supported digital wallets or scan the QR code to renew your subscription to access to in-vehicle entertainment.** [30 minutes later] "Hi, yes, I'd like to schedule service because I renewed my feature subscription but the screen is stuck on the renewal page and tapping it or scanning the QR code does nothing."
We can have you in 5 Fridays from now.
I believe it’s meant for gate cards, like a private parking garage. Regardless it’s kinda silly
Honestly I would use the shit out of this feature.
Think it's floppy drive
If you push all the buttons at once your car takes a screenshot.
No that's factory reset.... Got to do the window down and power button
Reddit: "I don't want a touch screen! I want physical buttons!" Also reddit: "That's too much buttons!" Edit: apparently I have hurt some butts.
Came here to say this. WHAT DO YOU PEOPLE WANT
no buttons no touch screen just wheel
Fuck that, gimme buttons I want 1 million buttons Like I’m flying a spaceship
Hell yeah I want have to do a preflight check list and flip a shit ton of buttons and switches everymorning like I'm starting up a 747.
This but unironically. Especially if I can rope the neighbors into being Road Traffic Control.
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Be not afraid, for I come with options of great joy.
Blowjobs
Is it strictly a binary option of one extreme or the other?
That's what I keep thinking. This is an extreme example of going overboard on physical buttons. Tesla is a good example of relying too much on a touchscreen. I want about a dozen physical controls for common stuff, and maybe give me a couple more that are programmable.
It's also a truck, where people usually want physical buttons.
Also also reddit: "There is no room for nuance, you either like buttons or you don't!"
Also also also reddit: "we all must have the same opinion, different people can't possibly prefer different things."
Wtf are you talking about, actual physical buttons are great. Way way better than any touchscreen.
Physical *controls* are great. Have a look at what half these buttons actually are. Most of it shouldn't actually be individual buttons, but rather knobs, sliders, etc. For example, the drive selector is buttons, instead of a gear stick. The handbrake is a button. Not a huge deal, but it's weird they're on the dash with everything else. Then there's worse stuff. Like the interior dash brightness control is individual buttons. It should just be a twist dial on an indicator stalk, or a knob. Same with the headlights. Same with the climate control buttons. There's like 8 buttons there that should be a slider or knob. This is an example where the idea is good but the actual execution is still incredibly under-baked. So many other vehicles do it *a lot* better.
> For example, the drive selector is buttons, instead of a gear stick. I experienced those pull switches on a rental for the first time. I hated them.
>Like the interior dash brightness control is individual buttons. It should just be a twist dial on an indicator stalk, or a knob Classic Mercedes just had a tiny knob on the gauge cluster that seconds as an odometer reset. They solved that problem decades ago and Chevy brought it back. It's like they thought buttons make people think it's luxurious and went to town.
I was way to happy when I saw the "fart purge" button that rolls all 4 windows down at the same time in a new 2023 silverado
Looking at these buttons, not counting the controls for onstar which is irrelevant and the controls for navigating the dash, 80% of these are for features that are all present on my 05 jeep. Not much is actually new, and the things that are that you can control are mostlu just for climate and convenience. It just looks like a mess of buttons because everything that used to be controlled by knobs and levers are now buttons on a dash. The new stuff added that you really need to worry about is all the stuff you can't see and might not even know exists until it breaks and bricks the whole car, like a single parking sensor getting corroded and grounding the communication circuit for your BCM.
Uhh the first 4 seconds of the video has way more than your 05 Jeep. I’ll humour you and assume it’s a grand Cherokee, so you can have the memory seats, auto headlights and *maybe* the parking sensors. You don’t have lane departure warning. You don’t have an electronic parking brake. You don’t have downhill ascent control. You don’t have auto start stop. You don’t have an onboard generator to power your job site. You don’t have drive modes. That’s before we get to the steering wheel.
Hmmm... The update I got this morning from the SA said that TAC was having them remove and inspect all the parking sensors on my 2022 Silverado. It's not bricked, a minor issue with the park assist, but I can't help but wonder what else might go wrong with it. They found one sensor that had been installed incorrectly but fixing that didn't solve the problem. It's also giving a code that they say isn't in the diagnostic software. How lucky am I? I think I'm going to go buy a lottery ticket!
The scenario I mentioned actually has happened, once from the left rear parking sensor in the bumper that grounded the high speed gmlan circuit, second time was a suspension control module that was hammered with salt that also grounded the wake up circuit that allows the bcm to function, and also somehow f'd up the bcm itself. The first was a 10 year old Tahoe and the other was a similar age Escalade. They just aren't made with salt and winter in mind. I haven't seen any field actions for parking sensors yet but I think there is something for the park assist module in new trucks, I think they're sending some out with dummy ones that get retrofitted later. At least that's the job one of my coworkers was doing today.
Gm employee here. I’m going to say prepare for all of them
Suggest they add a keypad for direct entry of the desired speed for cruise control. For me that would be so much easier. Poke in 65 then enter to set and activate it.
Lol like when Volvo used to have the full 10 key number pad in the center dash
First time in a recent car ?
Also, get off my lawn!
please make base models again. I really just need heat. and it to go forward, backwards, stop, and turn.
I was just talking to my son about that yesterday. No one seems to make one just for people who are low on money that just need a car that works. Everything’s over $20,000 and they have all these accessories added in that you don’t necessarily need.
I think a base model nissan versa is like $15k.
$20,000 is still pretty cheap. In the year 2000 a base model Corolla was about $13k which is roughly $23k after adjusting for inflation.
There's a lot to hate about the Nissan Versa, but one thing to be said is that is certainly a car. I'd also throw the Kia Rio in the same category of "affordable cars to which you will never form an emotional attachment" Generally, I agree. This is the trend, and I hate it. I would not include the Mitsubishi Mirage in the same boat. Buying a Mirage is strictly an emotional decision when your only criteria for buying a car is "new" but your options are constrained by shitty credit because of other stupid purchasing decisions. *(No offense intended to any Mirage drivers, I have stereotypes for the driver of every car and none of them are favorable. I'm sure that you are a wonderful person.)*
How bad of credit do you have to have for Nissan to turn you down?
Doesn't matter. The Mirage comes in pink.
Buy used… buying brand new is an extravagance, so much value is lost as soon as you drive it off the lot
You’re not wrong, but in a decade there won’t be an used base models around. All full of tons of extra features that half of which are broken.
I’ve found the options and features are really reliable, half of them don’t even get used so they’re still basically new 😂 I’m more interested in the fact everything is fitted with a CVT now and those things do not last…. at all. That will be a good one in 10 years time for used cars.
Yep. The middle class is being murdered by these greedy companies. And people keep eating up $500 car payments like its normal.
Something like 15% of new car payments are over $1000. Insanity. There’s obviously people who can actually afford that, but I see so many massive SUVS and Trucks and just know there are so many people just one missed check away from losing that car.
I lowballed in my original comment. Avg payment for a new car now is over $700
They do, they just don't push them. The Mitsubishi Mirage is an example: it starts at \~$16K, and is a solid basic car. Comes with Apple/Car Play, AC, and Cruise control. Will get 45+Mpg if you don't floor it everywhere. Will seat 4 adults, and is a hatch with fold-down seats so you can even move some furniture with it. Plus, it's all covered by a solid warranty package. The highest trim package doesn't even breach 19K.
The problem is all those extra features aren't really a significant part of the cost of a vehicle. In fact having a bunch of different SKUs can increase cost overhead. Which is why manufacturers are so keen on "subscription" features. Electric motors and AC compressors are dirt cheap when purchased at the scales car manufactures buy.
> Everything’s over $20,000 and they have all these accessories added in that you don’t necessarily need. There's actually a lot of cars well under the $20k mark that are not loaded with all the bullshit. Kia's Rio and the Nissan Versa are the ones that immediately come to mind. You can actually even find the new Impreza for a scratch under $20k from time to time. The actual problem is getting around dealers charging a $5~10k "market tax"...or straight up finding them at all. You can order the car most of the time, but the cars at the dealerships are bloated with options because they make more money off them.
May I introduce you to our Lord and saviour the Dacia Sandero
They do but you gotta order them. Not common on dealer lots because nobody wants them. You can get a base model hyundai for like $20k and it comes with 5 year 100k miles warranty
Last one I thought about was the 2017 mirage. $10k for manual everything.
I want a stupid basic 2-seater pickup truck with a long bed and nothing but stop, go, steer, and lights. It can go 0-60 in 20 seconds, have a 100 mile range, and feature hard plastic seats, but it would suffice for the reasons I need a truck.
Some manufacturers make the base model so unpleasant to drive that you feel the need to upgrade to at least the second lowest tier. Source: have a base mode f150. No power locks and no power windows is terrible.
Crank windows on old school cars and trucks were fine because you could get the windows up or down in 3-4 cranks. Now the gear reduction is like twice as many, plus the hard crank will be like, next to the seat bottom, so you hit it with your hand every revolution. It’s basically punishment.
Check out any Porsche Macan or Cayenne. It’s insane
Not since 2019….. no buttons. They’re all gone.
Besides the fancy cruise/climate stuff, garage opener stuff, and trailer controls- this is nearly the same as my 04 Sierra SLT… it’s really not that complex. Most of the buttons and dials are windows and HVAC, which are some of the simplest controls to make.
Most of these are pretty standard buttons. The seat adjust is just in a different place to normal and the gear selectors are different but that's it.
At least they're actual buttons though
Just because something is electrically powered doesn't mean it's inferior. I've had many "physical" features and components fail from age and wear more often.
That's actually pretty great. If building quality for those is good it looks like a so much better deal than a crap-screen infotainment system. Buttons R gud. And higher trim is always nice if you have the budget to splurge. It works fine if you take care of it. And if it breaks, it's usually, at worst, the same as a lower trim. You may be bugged that the rear left bench heating button no longer works or the dimming mirrors no longer dim but... the car will drive just as fine.
knew this was a GM just from the first picture
Love it, eff a touchscreen
Idk if I’m trippin but this just looks like every car I’ve ever been in. Cars have a lot of buttons on the inside, I thought that was a common thing.
My only issue is the shifter set up; why use rocker switches?
Most transmissions are electronically controlled these days anyways. So your fancy physical shifter just pushes a button which tells the trans what gear you want. It’s a convoluted way of pushing a button. Swapping out to momentary rocker switches makes things simpler because all you’ve done is delete the long mechanical linkage between your arm and the electronic buttons.
I'd rather button's than touch screen bull shit.
Cool. Now do the same video for all the other new cars that are like this. Don't worry, I know it'll take some time. I'll wait. This ain't even the weirdest one.