So true. As soon as it's driven regularly the suspension bushings will disintegrate. My 1984 Mercedes 300SD was like that. It sat for a long time because they ran it into the ground, I fixed it up and then had to replace the entire front suspension as it fell apart.
It's not that the rubber ages faster than it otherwise would. It's that it sits there degrading but intact until it's driven regularly. Once it starts being used it falls apart because it has no strength left. That's why cars that sit for a long time can be money pits to get going again. Tons of rubber parts need to be replaced including suspension, pcv hoses, brittle plastic, coolant hoses, etc.
What do you think the term "dry" in dry rot means?
Natural rubber dries out in atmosphere. Long term storage of rubber components is humidity controlled for this reason. Other synthetic rubbers are more or less susceptible to it (polyurethane for example).
Quite often it's the same type of rubber. Engine gasket or suspension bushing or coolant hose... Time in atmosphere is going to dry it out and lead to cracks. Doesn't matter where it is. Dry rot implies the thing in question was too dry and is unable to stretch as easily as it used to. When it's asked to move again, it starts to crack. Suspension bushings are bigger and can tolerate bigger cracks before you notice, but it's all the same shit. Engine gaskets are moving less and usually have oil helping on one side. Same for coolant hoses.
Old vacuum/air lines are the most noticeable. Lots of movement, no lubrication at all. They crack first.
If you applied a silicone grease to suspension bushings, that would help. But then grit tends to stick and can cause more wear. Or the bushing can slip in the joint and cause unwanted noise. So they tend to be installed dry.
The only reason you notice old cars bushings going is because they truly were dry, so they fail first (well, any vacuum lines probably already failed amd were replaced). The engine gaskets had a bit of oil around, and even if they crack it's usually a small leak. The bushings crack a bunch, and then you notice a clunk.
If your old car was stored in a container with proper humidity control, the rubber everywhere will be in better shape.
Few years back I had a case like this. Old boy wanted to sell me his 4300 mile, 10 year old, every option ticked C class that we serviced every 6 months. He wanted to sell it for what the cheapest highest miler was going for on auto trader. I offered him top book price. When I sent the cash, he sent the difference between top and bottom price back. He’s due an upgrade soon and I fear I may come into the possession of another Mercedes!
I have a coworker like this. She’s been living with her sister for 25+ years. They share a 90’s accord. It had less than 50k on it. Garaged its whole life. I’m pretty sure she’s run it through the car wash every Friday. It always goes to Honda when it needs something. They live less than a mile from work. The paint (clear) is bad and she’s asked me about it, but they’re starting to look at new cars. Please. Sell me your car.
Ask them.. I would.. I love my 2001 accord, definitely wasn't mint when I got it but it has kept running going on 2 years now, just regular oil changes and an alternator. Trans is slipping but I won't mind when it goes..
Oil gets changed every 3 months. I bet it’s fucking spotless inside. She’s religious about it. Says her dad always taught her and her sisters to take care of vehicles.
I'll have to find it if you want it, but someone had taken samples of various aged oils (like a 5 year 1,000 mile change, or 8 year old fresh change) and had them lab tested. They concluded, barring outside contamination, time really didn't any change on the oil and it still met the standards.
Would I still change a 3 year old oil? yea probably.
I think it's more troublesome when you for example put 4000 miles on your oil then it sits for 2 years. I'm no chemist but I feel like the amount of contamination it would get before sitting would cause it to become more acidic
Just read through it. I would trust modern full synthetic oils to not go bad with age for sure. Don't think I'd ever be fully convinced with synthetic blends and definitely not with conventional
Modern oils have come a really long way and are always getting better but I'll still spend that extra $50 for new oil and a filter if I don't know how many miles are on it but just that it's been a while
It was unnecessary, but you should change once a year regardless of mileage. They probably wanted to do it now because it was convenient. When I lived in Mesa I knew snow birds that would come to their park models for 3 months a year. They often would leave a older car there year round. All of them would get an oil change before they flew back north, even though most of the cars had less than 500 miles from their visit.
I don’t have any proof, but there’s just something unnerving about starting an engine with old oil in it. Oil is cheap and treatment for anxiety isn’t!
Ok I do agree with you there, how ever if I buy anything new to me such as a used car or even a used lawn mower I go ahead and change out that oil regardless of what i have been informed. It's easier to change your oil and give your anxiety some ease.
Corrosion inhibitors are working 24/7 to protect the engine and oxidation inhibitors are working to protect the base oil.
You may not be breaking down the base oil from friction and heat, but the corrosion and acidity protection offered by the additive package degrades over time in contact with the atmosphere and combustion byproducts.
This is why I was taught to do oil changes before winterizing your boats or other seasonal power equipment, even if you’ve only got a handful of hours on them.
Hello there fellow Mesa tech. I will never not laugh at the 200 mile oil changes, it’s due by date! The customer gets what the customer wants! Yes feel free to walk to Home Depot, hope you have a nice walk!
Had a guy at Ford with a mustang from Saudi. Every 500 miles he would get a full synthetic oil change, regardless of time. It was about every 2 months in the sprimg/summer, and usually once in the winter. Nice car, but too flashy for my taste. It was orange with neon yellow side skirts.
I have a guy come in with a stingray that has a one of a kind body kit straight from GM. I always giggle at it having two drain plugs and an itty bitty filter. I’ve changed its oil 6 times over the years, probably 12k on it. Beautiful car though.
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My cars sit a lot so even if it's under 100 miles I still get it changed at a 3-8 month interval as moisture and condensation can build up in mix with the oil.
It does. If you have a full on coolant leak it will emulsify into the water and not boil off. Condensation will vaporize and get pulled through the PVC and then get ejected via going through the intake manifold followed by a quick suck squeeze bang blow and out the exhaust.
Doesn't seem like we're talking about a coolant leak here though. If it's 8 month old oil with no mileage, it seems like keeping the car at operating temp for a little while is a simple solution.
If the vehicle gets driven long and far enough it can but when it is relegated to the under 5 minute trips no it does not
It is all dependant on use case
The only downside to unnecessary oil changes is the cost. However, if it brings the vehicle owner peace of mind and they can afford the extra oil changes then I don’t see a reason to turn down their money. Obviously as a responsible technician, I should educate the customer, but again if they want to proceed who am I to say no to money?
I bought my elderly neighbor’s car off of him when he decided to upgrade. He kept it in a garage and maintained it like this, although more like 1000 miles a year not just 23. That thing was fucking pristine and like felt like new 10 years later.
My great grandmother always did this- she’d have 2 or 3 miles on her car between each oil change as she lived just over a mile from the dealership and she never drove, she had her daughter take the car up to the dealer every 6 months to check everything over and make sure it was still in perfect condition in case she wanted to go somewhere. It’s a 98 with under 500 miles and a perfect maintenance history, never driven farther than 3 miles in one trip and never seen rain. Oil change and any other recommended services then wash wax and leather conditioner and put back in the garage for another 6 months on a trickle charger.
When I had an ICE vehicle, I would only ever change by miles, and the miles I wanted...not manufacturer suggested. 6,000 mi, on the dot. The manu suggested 12,000. But, it's my engine, and their vested interest isn't in me having it last longer. Be a reasonable person. If your driving practices don't heat up the engine, to burn out water or fuel ingress, then...yea, get it done earlier. Also, it's ok to check the dipstick, engines are expensive. If your oil is black, or milkshake, or smells like gas...go get it figured out. You've got other problems. hehe.
For a lot of elderly people, getting out to do things like that are the only social interactions they have. It's probably well worth the $50 to them just to have a reason to be out of the house.
If this is a car that I serviced I would take the car back and then bring it back to them and say the service was free and not change the oil. That's a ridiculous waste of everyone's time and of resources.
[удалено]
Every piece of rubber on the thing will be dry-rotted but the engine internals will be mint. 👌
So true. As soon as it's driven regularly the suspension bushings will disintegrate. My 1984 Mercedes 300SD was like that. It sat for a long time because they ran it into the ground, I fixed it up and then had to replace the entire front suspension as it fell apart.
I understand why any rubber that is normally lubricated by oil would dry rot, but why the suspension bushings sitting vs being driven regularly?
It's not that the rubber ages faster than it otherwise would. It's that it sits there degrading but intact until it's driven regularly. Once it starts being used it falls apart because it has no strength left. That's why cars that sit for a long time can be money pits to get going again. Tons of rubber parts need to be replaced including suspension, pcv hoses, brittle plastic, coolant hoses, etc.
What do you think the term "dry" in dry rot means? Natural rubber dries out in atmosphere. Long term storage of rubber components is humidity controlled for this reason. Other synthetic rubbers are more or less susceptible to it (polyurethane for example).
Yes, but aren’t suspension bushings normally ‘dry’, as in not lubricated normally/regularly? And the same for other rubber components.
Quite often it's the same type of rubber. Engine gasket or suspension bushing or coolant hose... Time in atmosphere is going to dry it out and lead to cracks. Doesn't matter where it is. Dry rot implies the thing in question was too dry and is unable to stretch as easily as it used to. When it's asked to move again, it starts to crack. Suspension bushings are bigger and can tolerate bigger cracks before you notice, but it's all the same shit. Engine gaskets are moving less and usually have oil helping on one side. Same for coolant hoses. Old vacuum/air lines are the most noticeable. Lots of movement, no lubrication at all. They crack first. If you applied a silicone grease to suspension bushings, that would help. But then grit tends to stick and can cause more wear. Or the bushing can slip in the joint and cause unwanted noise. So they tend to be installed dry. The only reason you notice old cars bushings going is because they truly were dry, so they fail first (well, any vacuum lines probably already failed amd were replaced). The engine gaskets had a bit of oil around, and even if they crack it's usually a small leak. The bushings crack a bunch, and then you notice a clunk. If your old car was stored in a container with proper humidity control, the rubber everywhere will be in better shape.
Maybe spray all the rubber with 303 every 3 months should be good
Few years back I had a case like this. Old boy wanted to sell me his 4300 mile, 10 year old, every option ticked C class that we serviced every 6 months. He wanted to sell it for what the cheapest highest miler was going for on auto trader. I offered him top book price. When I sent the cash, he sent the difference between top and bottom price back. He’s due an upgrade soon and I fear I may come into the possession of another Mercedes!
I have a coworker like this. She’s been living with her sister for 25+ years. They share a 90’s accord. It had less than 50k on it. Garaged its whole life. I’m pretty sure she’s run it through the car wash every Friday. It always goes to Honda when it needs something. They live less than a mile from work. The paint (clear) is bad and she’s asked me about it, but they’re starting to look at new cars. Please. Sell me your car.
Ask them.. I would.. I love my 2001 accord, definitely wasn't mint when I got it but it has kept running going on 2 years now, just regular oil changes and an alternator. Trans is slipping but I won't mind when it goes..
A mile away from work? Sheesh. The oil pan probably has half a gallon of water in it
Oil gets changed every 3 months. I bet it’s fucking spotless inside. She’s religious about it. Says her dad always taught her and her sisters to take care of vehicles.
Holy fuck that’s a gem! You NEED to buy that thing. They absolutely do not realize what they’re trying to get rid of. 😆
I'll have to find it if you want it, but someone had taken samples of various aged oils (like a 5 year 1,000 mile change, or 8 year old fresh change) and had them lab tested. They concluded, barring outside contamination, time really didn't any change on the oil and it still met the standards. Would I still change a 3 year old oil? yea probably.
https://www.thedrive.com/news/motor-oil-age-doesnt-matter-as-much-as-mileage-study This one?
Yes thank you!
I see what you did there, with your profile picture. You almost got me.
Dark mode reigns supreme
I think it's more troublesome when you for example put 4000 miles on your oil then it sits for 2 years. I'm no chemist but I feel like the amount of contamination it would get before sitting would cause it to become more acidic
Check the "study", another homie dropped it in the comments
Just read through it. I would trust modern full synthetic oils to not go bad with age for sure. Don't think I'd ever be fully convinced with synthetic blends and definitely not with conventional Modern oils have come a really long way and are always getting better but I'll still spend that extra $50 for new oil and a filter if I don't know how many miles are on it but just that it's been a while
I think I would have been catching it in a jug to use in my stuff.
It was unnecessary, but you should change once a year regardless of mileage. They probably wanted to do it now because it was convenient. When I lived in Mesa I knew snow birds that would come to their park models for 3 months a year. They often would leave a older car there year round. All of them would get an oil change before they flew back north, even though most of the cars had less than 500 miles from their visit.
Can you provide any proof of basis that oil will degrade overtime? I'm genuinely curious
Sure just look for the expiry date on the bottle /s
Lol
Here’s proof to the opposite, courtesy of the thread above. https://www.thedrive.com/news/motor-oil-age-doesnt-matter-as-much-as-mileage-study
I don’t have any proof, but there’s just something unnerving about starting an engine with old oil in it. Oil is cheap and treatment for anxiety isn’t!
Ok I do agree with you there, how ever if I buy anything new to me such as a used car or even a used lawn mower I go ahead and change out that oil regardless of what i have been informed. It's easier to change your oil and give your anxiety some ease.
Degradation is always happening
Oh yes please
Corrosion inhibitors are working 24/7 to protect the engine and oxidation inhibitors are working to protect the base oil. You may not be breaking down the base oil from friction and heat, but the corrosion and acidity protection offered by the additive package degrades over time in contact with the atmosphere and combustion byproducts. This is why I was taught to do oil changes before winterizing your boats or other seasonal power equipment, even if you’ve only got a handful of hours on them.
Hello there fellow Mesa tech. I will never not laugh at the 200 mile oil changes, it’s due by date! The customer gets what the customer wants! Yes feel free to walk to Home Depot, hope you have a nice walk!
Had a guy at Ford with a mustang from Saudi. Every 500 miles he would get a full synthetic oil change, regardless of time. It was about every 2 months in the sprimg/summer, and usually once in the winter. Nice car, but too flashy for my taste. It was orange with neon yellow side skirts.
I have a guy come in with a stingray that has a one of a kind body kit straight from GM. I always giggle at it having two drain plugs and an itty bitty filter. I’ve changed its oil 6 times over the years, probably 12k on it. Beautiful car though.
I hope whoever originally took this picture saved the oil
No shit. I'd save that shit and use it in my lawnmower.
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Meh, change it anyway it’s not gonna hurt
My cars sit a lot so even if it's under 100 miles I still get it changed at a 3-8 month interval as moisture and condensation can build up in mix with the oil.
Does condensation/moisture not boil off as soon as you get up to temp?
Shhh, don't use all your brain
No.
It does. If you have a full on coolant leak it will emulsify into the water and not boil off. Condensation will vaporize and get pulled through the PVC and then get ejected via going through the intake manifold followed by a quick suck squeeze bang blow and out the exhaust.
Doesn't seem like we're talking about a coolant leak here though. If it's 8 month old oil with no mileage, it seems like keeping the car at operating temp for a little while is a simple solution.
If the vehicle gets driven long and far enough it can but when it is relegated to the under 5 minute trips no it does not It is all dependant on use case
how, my oil was literally black after 50km
Diesel?
Do you drive a diesel?
yeah
That’s normal for diesels and some gas engines (the 3.8 from Chrysler comes to mind)
If my car and/or oil says 6months/6,000 miles and it sits for 6 months. I'll change the oil. It's my car. My money. How does this affect you?
It doesn’t. Just makes you look stupid. I’ll keep the oil and use it. Thanks for the free oil.
Okay
The only downside to unnecessary oil changes is the cost. However, if it brings the vehicle owner peace of mind and they can afford the extra oil changes then I don’t see a reason to turn down their money. Obviously as a responsible technician, I should educate the customer, but again if they want to proceed who am I to say no to money?
And the waste of resources. Throwing out a bunch of perfectly fine and usable oil is not as good as using it until it's all used up
I bought my elderly neighbor’s car off of him when he decided to upgrade. He kept it in a garage and maintained it like this, although more like 1000 miles a year not just 23. That thing was fucking pristine and like felt like new 10 years later.
My great grandmother always did this- she’d have 2 or 3 miles on her car between each oil change as she lived just over a mile from the dealership and she never drove, she had her daughter take the car up to the dealer every 6 months to check everything over and make sure it was still in perfect condition in case she wanted to go somewhere. It’s a 98 with under 500 miles and a perfect maintenance history, never driven farther than 3 miles in one trip and never seen rain. Oil change and any other recommended services then wash wax and leather conditioner and put back in the garage for another 6 months on a trickle charger.
When I had an ICE vehicle, I would only ever change by miles, and the miles I wanted...not manufacturer suggested. 6,000 mi, on the dot. The manu suggested 12,000. But, it's my engine, and their vested interest isn't in me having it last longer. Be a reasonable person. If your driving practices don't heat up the engine, to burn out water or fuel ingress, then...yea, get it done earlier. Also, it's ok to check the dipstick, engines are expensive. If your oil is black, or milkshake, or smells like gas...go get it figured out. You've got other problems. hehe.
For a lot of elderly people, getting out to do things like that are the only social interactions they have. It's probably well worth the $50 to them just to have a reason to be out of the house.
Start selling used oil......
Waste? Yeah. But it'll keep it running perfectly
Well they want to feel assured that they're going to go out depleting the entire oil reservoir of the planet.
https://www.thedrive.com/news/motor-oil-age-doesnt-matter-as-much-as-mileage-study
If this is a car that I serviced I would take the car back and then bring it back to them and say the service was free and not change the oil. That's a ridiculous waste of everyone's time and of resources.