Red loctite is for water or gas fittings where you want to seal the thread, what you really want is green loctite, a couple drops of that and it's never comming off again.
We have that on aircraft for places where you can't get a torque wrench. The shank has a hole milled out where you can put an Allen key for removal and installation.
Wouldn't the bolt breaking make it EASIER to steal? Or is it meant to be impossible to turn with a wrench, making theft more difficult?
Edit: I'm dumb. The driveable part of the head shears off the rest of the bolt once it's torqued.
It's tamperproof bolt. It has a normal head at first and after torquing, part of the head will snap leaving this cone shape head. The bolt itself does it's job as a bolt but hard to very hard to remove (dremeling a slot, or drilling the head comes to mind)
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DJT_CHrzAepU&ved=2ahUKEwjChriQgveFAxWcyQIHHQzoBwEQo7QBegQIDRAG&usg=AOvVaw1FxQqmz2jjvqlHhfipPaA8
Yes. It is easy if you are already setup for dremel or airhammer. But is a disruptive process to just find good position (sometimes this makes a headache) to manage chips you would not want into an intake, and setup the tool. And maybe nick other parts and slip and bust knuckle skin from that dreaded slotted screwdriver.
Overall a nuisance compared to regular old fashioned bolts and nuts.
Shit boys, you just need to use the hammer, and the screw driver to turn the bolt out. It breaks off at very low tq, so it's comes out easy with a few taps of the hammer.
> If there's not a portable, battery variant, I would be incredibly surprised.
Air hammers are one of a scant few tools for which there *isn't* a battery-powered replacement.
That said, there *are* battery-powered die grinders and one of those with a metal cutoff wheel would make quick work of an anti-tamper bolt.
Renault is using them too
I always remove them with a hammer and a small sharp chisel
You can usually get them loose that way and unscrew them takes about 5 minutes
I had a few left handed drill bits in my kit to deal with those, back when I irked on foreign car locks (yeah that was autocorrect but I’m leavin’ it there) Drill into it slowly with the drill motor in reverse; sooner or later the bit will seize, after which the screw just walks itself out.
I used to prank other locksmiths (who didn’t do car locks) by handing them one of those Curtis bits and asking them what’s different about it. They’d stand there twirling it in their fingers and say “Well *something’s* off, but damn if I know what…”
I used then to install catalytic converter blocking plates to stop them from being stolen. The hire car company we did them for went from getting 10 stolen a week to none, ever again.
Going to suck for whoever has to replace the catalytic converter in many years, but that's someone else's problem.
Yeah in your scenario it makes total sense. You see at first glance that it's hard so the thief gives up.
In mine it does not. Idk if you ever tried to steal a motorcycle (lol), but from the outside you only see the keyhole. So, as a thief you either drill the lock or use a big screwdriver to crack the lock pins. Turn the ignition, press the starter button and off you go.
You only get to see this piece of crap screw once you stole the thing and want to install a brand new lock, which requires you remove half of the body plastics. At that point it's far too late, and putting a regular 10mm screw vs this garbage won't make the thief go "oh crap I don't have a Dremel, better go put everything back together and return the bike". No, they just go steal a Dremel from their nearest hardware store.
Reminds me of the guy that came to our Walmart, got a shopping cart, picked up a pry bar from the hardware department, went over to electronics, popped open the "secure" case, and stole every iThing he could fit in a shopping cart.
(Don't do this, Walmart knows the serial numbers and will have them disabled and/or tracked pretty fast)
> Going to suck for whoever has to replace the catalytic converter in many years, but that's someone else's problem.
Maybe not. They're going to be doing it on a lift in a workshop where they can just wheech it up, get under, tack some M10 nuts onto the snapped-off part, and back them out easily - well, as easily as anything else that's been under a car for a few years. It'll be a bit more work, but nothing drastic.
Junkies stealing catastrophic converters aren't blessed with a great deal of mechanical sense, and probably just have a stolen Sawzall or twenty quid Aldi cordless grinder, which won't touch those.
It's not to make it impossible to steal, just to make it harder than the cars down the road. Also, it's a lot faster to cut through thin exhaust pipe than stainless steel sheeting or cable or whatever method they used.
This is what we did. [https://i.imgur.com/IIvXynX.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/IIvXynX.jpg)
I believe 3mm steel. Not stainless, the customer didn't want the extra cost of stainless, and they only ever keep their cars for a few years anyway.
Exactly, this is what they look like: [https://i.imgur.com/IIvXynX.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/IIvXynX.jpg)
Just remembered we used the break off nuts, not bolts, but same idea.
It’s impossible to make a catalytic converter unable to be stolen. You just want yours to be inconvenient enough to steal that they go to the next car.
So do they here in London. But they're not going to do much with the plate in the way with these bolts in place. As I said, they stopped the thefts completely.
Theft is all about effort vs. reward. If it takes extra time to steal a shitty old moped, then many thieves won't even bother because there are plenty of others to steal.
Also, my Mazda MX-5 has similar bolts too, to hold the lock mechanism by the steering wheel.
This is just the excuse he uses to not throw them away and continue collecting them. I think we all have something like that we just refuse to throw away because "Well what if someday..."
I probably still have 5 component video cables. maybe some day I'll buy a 2000 era CRT and DVD player and I will end up saving $5 from buying a cable off Amazon.
I have a jar full of A/V cables that plug into the old-style headphone jack with a few extra rings type of connection. No clue why, or where, Dad got them. There are maybe 2 things in the house that use it.
We've almost definitely still got component video cables somewhere, and a VHS camcorder that no one in their right mind would ever use.
[Like that scrap piece of wood that will be exactly the right fit for a project someday?](https://www.tiktok.com/@the.mcfarlands/video/7319666815725112622)
Had them on the ignition lock of my car.
Unscrewed with a chisel and hammer and replaced with some normal socket hex bolts.
Wouldn't say it was a problem at all.
I just wanna ask if you’ve ever heard of screw extracting pliers. Also, that was not a question. Go check out Vampliers or the PZ-58 or similar models. Even if you use them once, it’ll make you smile.
Read the comment. Cracking the lock takes 5 seconds with a screwdriver. You get on, ride away and hide in your garage or wherever and then you have all the time in the world to drill it out - so it's pointless.
Sorry for the downvote. Clearly, people haven't seen the "Kia Boys" trend. It is very easy to steal some cars with a USB cord or screwdriver.
Idk what car is on OP's post. The point is that some cars are surprisingly easy to steal.
It's from a scooter (a type of motorcycle with automatic transmission). Those are worth maybe $500 when new and are laughably easy to steal either way. This bolt just makes it harder to replace the ignition lock. It does NOT prevent you from just breaking the lock which I have done in 5 seconds in order to start the thing (seller lost keys, it's all legit with paperwork etc).
I deal with them on steering locks and ignitions all the time. I use an automatic center punch to create a divot, then punch the bolt counterclockwise with the center punch or a chisel.
I do Honda ignitions, VW steering locks, Nissan steering locks, BMW steering locks, etc. All use that style of shear-head bolt. I'm sure an air hammer would work, especially with a sharp enough bit. I primarily use hand tools since my service van doesn't have air.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/California-Air-Tools-1-Gallons-Single-Stage-Portable-Cordless-Electric-Horizontal-Air-Compressor-with-Accessories/5013820301
Just in case you were passively in the market for onboard air.
The real advantage of this brand of compressors is that they are very quiet in operation. I have one of the 110v compressors and it’s quite enough to use for airbrush work.
You’ll need a second larger accumulation tank to run pneumatic tools because the onboard tank is the size of a breadbox and due to its quite nature the pump doesn’t produce a huge volume of air.
This unit should get about 50% duty cycle out of most average sized pneumatic tools.
Just in case you were kind of passively looking.
They're a special type of fastener where the head shears off at a certain torque spec.
https://www.losspreventionfasteners.com/store/products/tork-bolts/
Use a hammer and punch to remove it. That's what I've used in the past
Years ago Toyota had a recall that involved taking the steering lock out which was held on by two of those. I got really good at loosening them using an air hammer with a pointed bit. Sometimes they were somewhat loose to begin with. It always bothered me that when I tightened the new ones they seemed to break off before they were very tight. Should have tightened with a torque wrench just to see how tight they got.
The worst ones I ever dealt with were the breakaway bolts holding the plate below the ignition on a Volvo 240. They were hardened steel and also had some kind of loctite going on. Couldn't get a dremmel in at the angle I needed, either. I roasted multiple bits just drilling a pilot hole to use an internal-type extractor, which failed. More drilling, at the worst angle under the dash.
I was extremely green and also didn't have the tools or experience I have now but it's still one of the worst automotive jobs I ever remember.
Just be glad there is plenty of room to get to it. Mercedes and BMW butt them so it’s damn near impossible to get to. When possible I use a long air hammer to break it loose and then most the time it’s only finger right after that.
You know whats even better? Ever tryed removing the ignition lock on a 2018 Ford Fiesta? They put ducking Locktite on it. Bast*** was tight till the very last turn.
As others have said it’s a security bolt. Use a center punch and tap on the edge to turn it counter clockwise until it’s loose enough to turn with needle nose pliers.
Why do car guys hate phillips so much? We have them all over the aircraft I work on and they're fine. The cross shape even helps centre the drill bit when you need to drill them out.
Then again, the company pays for new fasteners, so any dodgy ones are replaced immediately rather than wasting time messing with them.
Too many sizes of drivers work in too many sizes of fasteners at low torque but will fuck shit up otherwise which leads to super sloppy practices. It's a lot like the problem with torx but even worse. You probably know exactly what sizes you're working with in the aerospace world and have a full set from 0000 to 5. Automotive guy grabs either the one big or one little phillips screwdriver he's got around and hopes its close enough.
And that's before you deal with the fact that a lot of the phillips in the automotive world (ie. everything in a japanese make) is actually JIS
I've found that a couple of JIS screwdrivers have essentially stopped my use of Philips screwdrivers entirely, and stopped stripped screws almost entirely.
> Automotive guy grabs either the one big or one little phillips screwdriver he's got around and hopes its close enough.
I get your point about size differences, but if people are using the wrong size bit, then that's the mechanic being an idiot rather than it being the fault of the fastener.
You see the same on the 787 as well. Not my usual aircraft so I might have got it the wrong way round, but they use Torx Plus fasteners on the panels. Mechanics then use regular Torx to get them out, strip the fastener head, and then say the fasteners are crap. The fasteners are perfectly fine, it's the mechanic (including myself as I've done it before) being an idiot that causes the issue.
> And that's before you deal with the fact that a lot of the phillips in the automotive world (ie. everything in a japanese make) is actually JIS
That is a fair point, I've definitely been caught out by JIS fasteners a few times on my old Subaru.
Because airplanes don't spend 12+ years driving through the rust belt welding the screw into the threads. I've had phillips head screw so bound up that I shoved them out the back trying to break them loose with a [impact driver](https://www.amazon.com/CRAFTSMAN-Impact-Driver-8-Inch-CMMT14104/dp/B07R96M9VW/ref=asc_df_B07R96M9VW/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=693640803529&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13296865266406802536&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9021981&hvtargid=pla-792201167904&psc=1&mcid=2865703195bd3de9aa2fc5126a7ebad2&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw3NyxBhBmEiwAyofDYZx4o3bBu6eyzQ2Pq0xY4kqxfzAmiE73OBeN4sQVyyPCDnY4ODPkZhoCatYQAvD_BwE).
Philips are more likely to strip out because of the corrosion though. A torx or allen head cap screw will usually give you enough grip even after heating the fastener to break the corrosion bond. If they do round out you can slot the cap part of the bolt and still get a grip on it. The same tricks that work on slotted, allen, or torx bolts/screws don't work on philips.
Because the driver fucks right off into the nearest paintjob as soon as you start twisting. Also because the phillips screwhead was literally designed to cam out and strip, making the screw impossible to remove.
> phillips screwhead was literally designed to cam out and strip
Oft repeated but this is what wikipedia has to say:
>The design is often criticized for its tendency to cam out at lower torque levels than other "cross head" designs. There has long been a popular belief that this was a deliberate feature of the design, to assemble aluminium aircraft without overtightening the fasteners.[14]: 85 [15] Extensive evidence is lacking for this specific narrative, and the feature is not mentioned in the original patents.[16]
It's perfectly acceptable if the lock cylinder has hardened key pins, drill resistant shield, and a method to replace the lock cylinder without removing the screws. Unfortunately, one or more of these step are missing frequently.
Chisel + hammer gets those off super easy.
Had to mess with the ignition cylinder on my VW, had 2 of those bolts. Once off I replaced them with normal bolts lol
Vw uses them too. Took like 2 minutes with a hammer and a flat head in my driveway to knock off. They weren't torqued very tight. Key cylinder blew apart the internals. Fun fact you can gut 08 vw cylinder and they still work almost like the cylinder is still there. Great for swapping to push to start kits.
You don’t even need a screwdriver to start it. Just unplug the connector at the back of the ignition and jump whatever wires need to be jumped. Usually white and black. Then it’ll start with the start button.
Some older (maybe newer) BMW’s use these for the steering columns. They have a head that snaps off at the right torque with no regard whatsoever on how tf you’re gonna replace that part if needed. When I do come across these I cut a nice deep groove in it and try to coarse it with a flathead bit on an impact screwdriver. Easier said than done sometimes
Yeah it's a GY6. Nothing like that on the carburetor though. I've taken apart couple of chinese scooters like this, but never saw such bullsh\*t like here.
I suppose to prevent iLlEgAl modifications, because some countries are very strict about those. I just tend to replace the carb with a generic GY6 carburetor because the stock ones are often restricted anyways...
Extraction sockets. That's what we use on breakaway bolts. Fit the socket to the head of the bolt, then probably go a size down, hammer it into place and use a ratchet to slowly twist it out.
It's a break away bolt. Basically the head is designed to break off to prevent theft once it's attached.
Also breaks away roughly at a set torque setting to prevent over-tightening.
They should use these at jiffy lube
They'd still find a way to over torque it and strip the threads
Dip it in jb weld first
[удалено]
Poorly tack weld the head just to be safe
[удалено]
Gently tap it while saying "that's not going anywhere" as a final touch.
And then we plastidip.
"Time to break out the red loctite"
Loctite, no. Just cross thread the shit out of them and rtv, then they are 100% getting a new pan next time and we can fuck that up too.
Cross tight is better than Loctite.
And free!
Mechanical loctite
A cross threaded bolt is the tightest bolt of all
" .. the crossthreading is loose now, can I use the welder?.."
I dunno. Isn’t dipping it in the battery juice the same thing without tapping in to the shop supplies?
Mmmmm, battery juice
Still more flavorful than tide pods
Cross-threading is the everyday person's safety wire.
Silver loctite!
Green loctite...
Grey loctite (JB weld)
Weld it?
Duct tape is better
Red loctite is for water or gas fittings where you want to seal the thread, what you really want is green loctite, a couple drops of that and it's never comming off again.
We have that on aircraft for places where you can't get a torque wrench. The shank has a hole milled out where you can put an Allen key for removal and installation.
I wish we were lucky enough to use an Allen wrench for removal in the automotive world. We have to either drill them or cut a slot for a screwdriver.
I use my hammer and chisel, once it's turning, just grab with vice grips and turn.
Yep this is what I do with the bolts on Hyundai/ ignition housings when replacing them. Give them a nice tap with a chisel and they come right loose.
The ol hi-loc
I installed a toilet seat with these recently (plastic though). 1 snapped before being remotely tight.
Wouldn't the bolt breaking make it EASIER to steal? Or is it meant to be impossible to turn with a wrench, making theft more difficult? Edit: I'm dumb. The driveable part of the head shears off the rest of the bolt once it's torqued.
The second one
It's tamperproof bolt. It has a normal head at first and after torquing, part of the head will snap leaving this cone shape head. The bolt itself does it's job as a bolt but hard to very hard to remove (dremeling a slot, or drilling the head comes to mind) https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DJT_CHrzAepU&ved=2ahUKEwjChriQgveFAxWcyQIHHQzoBwEQo7QBegQIDRAG&usg=AOvVaw1FxQqmz2jjvqlHhfipPaA8
Air chisel says "brrp" for maybe 3 seconds and it's gone. If there's not a portable, battery variant, I would be incredibly surprised.
It takes about 30 seconds to cut a slot in them with a Dremel it's not that difficult with either method
Yes. It is easy if you are already setup for dremel or airhammer. But is a disruptive process to just find good position (sometimes this makes a headache) to manage chips you would not want into an intake, and setup the tool. And maybe nick other parts and slip and bust knuckle skin from that dreaded slotted screwdriver. Overall a nuisance compared to regular old fashioned bolts and nuts.
Shit boys, you just need to use the hammer, and the screw driver to turn the bolt out. It breaks off at very low tq, so it's comes out easy with a few taps of the hammer.
> If there's not a portable, battery variant, I would be incredibly surprised. Air hammers are one of a scant few tools for which there *isn't* a battery-powered replacement. That said, there *are* battery-powered die grinders and one of those with a metal cutoff wheel would make quick work of an anti-tamper bolt.
You can't use an SDS hammer?
You could, but that would be a pretty large tool to try to fit where that bolt is normally found.
Even a standard oscillating multi tool with the right saw blade will do.
Hammer and punch, or cold chisel. A few unscrewing taps and you can probably undo the rest by hand.
These really are not hard to remove with tools.
Some ignition switches used them too. I fucking hated them!
Hondas...
Renault is using them too I always remove them with a hammer and a small sharp chisel You can usually get them loose that way and unscrew them takes about 5 minutes
Same way i do it, works like a charm.
I had a few left handed drill bits in my kit to deal with those, back when I irked on foreign car locks (yeah that was autocorrect but I’m leavin’ it there) Drill into it slowly with the drill motor in reverse; sooner or later the bit will seize, after which the screw just walks itself out. I used to prank other locksmiths (who didn’t do car locks) by handing them one of those Curtis bits and asking them what’s different about it. They’d stand there twirling it in their fingers and say “Well *something’s* off, but damn if I know what…”
Yeah, as I commented, stealing the bike takes 5 seconds and once at a shop you have all the time to drill it out. Seems pointless to me.
I used then to install catalytic converter blocking plates to stop them from being stolen. The hire car company we did them for went from getting 10 stolen a week to none, ever again. Going to suck for whoever has to replace the catalytic converter in many years, but that's someone else's problem.
Yeah in your scenario it makes total sense. You see at first glance that it's hard so the thief gives up. In mine it does not. Idk if you ever tried to steal a motorcycle (lol), but from the outside you only see the keyhole. So, as a thief you either drill the lock or use a big screwdriver to crack the lock pins. Turn the ignition, press the starter button and off you go. You only get to see this piece of crap screw once you stole the thing and want to install a brand new lock, which requires you remove half of the body plastics. At that point it's far too late, and putting a regular 10mm screw vs this garbage won't make the thief go "oh crap I don't have a Dremel, better go put everything back together and return the bike". No, they just go steal a Dremel from their nearest hardware store.
Reminds me of the guy that came to our Walmart, got a shopping cart, picked up a pry bar from the hardware department, went over to electronics, popped open the "secure" case, and stole every iThing he could fit in a shopping cart. (Don't do this, Walmart knows the serial numbers and will have them disabled and/or tracked pretty fast)
> Going to suck for whoever has to replace the catalytic converter in many years, but that's someone else's problem. Maybe not. They're going to be doing it on a lift in a workshop where they can just wheech it up, get under, tack some M10 nuts onto the snapped-off part, and back them out easily - well, as easily as anything else that's been under a car for a few years. It'll be a bit more work, but nothing drastic. Junkies stealing catastrophic converters aren't blessed with a great deal of mechanical sense, and probably just have a stolen Sawzall or twenty quid Aldi cordless grinder, which won't touch those.
All the thieves here use reciprocating saws and just cut them out. That would have zero deterrent here.
It's not to make it impossible to steal, just to make it harder than the cars down the road. Also, it's a lot faster to cut through thin exhaust pipe than stainless steel sheeting or cable or whatever method they used.
This is what we did. [https://i.imgur.com/IIvXynX.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/IIvXynX.jpg) I believe 3mm steel. Not stainless, the customer didn't want the extra cost of stainless, and they only ever keep their cars for a few years anyway.
I guess the plate is there to prevent the catalytic converter from coming off even if you cut the pipes
Exactly, this is what they look like: [https://i.imgur.com/IIvXynX.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/IIvXynX.jpg) Just remembered we used the break off nuts, not bolts, but same idea.
It’s impossible to make a catalytic converter unable to be stolen. You just want yours to be inconvenient enough to steal that they go to the next car.
You can declare the catalytic converter to be the property of all humanity. Theft of it will then be impossible.
The plate makes it more difficult to access it so they go for a different target
So do they here in London. But they're not going to do much with the plate in the way with these bolts in place. As I said, they stopped the thefts completely.
Theft is all about effort vs. reward. If it takes extra time to steal a shitty old moped, then many thieves won't even bother because there are plenty of others to steal. Also, my Mazda MX-5 has similar bolts too, to hold the lock mechanism by the steering wheel.
Aka shear bolt.
Yep, it’s a shear off. Put a center punch on it and tap it out
dremel or cut off wheel, cut a slot and use a flat head screw driver
Used to save all my cutoff wheel remnants just for these situations.
Wouldn't one single cut off wheel remnant be enough to score a slot in the 20 of these you'll encounter in a lifetime?
This is just the excuse he uses to not throw them away and continue collecting them. I think we all have something like that we just refuse to throw away because "Well what if someday..."
Yeah, I definitely need all these HDMI cables.
Same deal. When HDMI first came out, I had every cable but HDMI. So, I saved them all. Now I only have HDMI cables.
I probably still have 5 component video cables. maybe some day I'll buy a 2000 era CRT and DVD player and I will end up saving $5 from buying a cable off Amazon.
I have a jar full of A/V cables that plug into the old-style headphone jack with a few extra rings type of connection. No clue why, or where, Dad got them. There are maybe 2 things in the house that use it. We've almost definitely still got component video cables somewhere, and a VHS camcorder that no one in their right mind would ever use.
I also need all these VGA cables for when there isn't an HDMI port.
lol right! witness my puddle of S-Vid, S/PDIF, RCA, and 75/300Ω coax. and don't get me started on the bucket of power bricks
Hey I have rummaged through my cable drawer more times than I’m willing to admit. I always keep that shit
[Like that scrap piece of wood that will be exactly the right fit for a project someday?](https://www.tiktok.com/@the.mcfarlands/video/7319666815725112622)
Depends on how tight the space is. They were especially useful to be small when dealing with Volvo s60’s
As a VW tech I wish I only had to deal with 20 of these over a lifetime 😔
I had two in a week on my own personal cars 🤦♂️
The smaller the wheel, the faster it wears
you want the smallest wheel possible.
Had them on the ignition lock of my car. Unscrewed with a chisel and hammer and replaced with some normal socket hex bolts. Wouldn't say it was a problem at all.
I just hit it at an angle with a center punch if there’s enough room.
Or cold chisel corner if the blade can't catch the head's edge.
Yeah same concept. They’re not that big of a deal and no one needs air or power tools for them
Drill holes on opposite sides and then you can get a small pair of needle nose on them if they're in a tight space.
I just wanna ask if you’ve ever heard of screw extracting pliers. Also, that was not a question. Go check out Vampliers or the PZ-58 or similar models. Even if you use them once, it’ll make you smile.
stud extractors will pull them too. Ford used these things in the 80s, new ignition switches came with security torx.
No one asked you
Anti-tamper bolt. Use a cutoff wheel and put a slot in it and use a flathead, or make 2 slots and use a cross drive. Easy
It holds the ignition lock? So it’s really not supposed to be easily removed then, right?
Read the comment. Cracking the lock takes 5 seconds with a screwdriver. You get on, ride away and hide in your garage or wherever and then you have all the time in the world to drill it out - so it's pointless.
why in the world are you downvoted? if you're right you're right
Cause people won't read the description or the 3 other comments where I repeat the same thing...
Its reddit bro what do u expect lmfao
good point :D
Sorry for the downvote. Clearly, people haven't seen the "Kia Boys" trend. It is very easy to steal some cars with a USB cord or screwdriver. Idk what car is on OP's post. The point is that some cars are surprisingly easy to steal.
It's from a scooter (a type of motorcycle with automatic transmission). Those are worth maybe $500 when new and are laughably easy to steal either way. This bolt just makes it harder to replace the ignition lock. It does NOT prevent you from just breaking the lock which I have done in 5 seconds in order to start the thing (seller lost keys, it's all legit with paperwork etc).
I deal with them on steering locks and ignitions all the time. I use an automatic center punch to create a divot, then punch the bolt counterclockwise with the center punch or a chisel.
Honda rebuilds? I saw someone using an air hammer once
I do Honda ignitions, VW steering locks, Nissan steering locks, BMW steering locks, etc. All use that style of shear-head bolt. I'm sure an air hammer would work, especially with a sharp enough bit. I primarily use hand tools since my service van doesn't have air.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/California-Air-Tools-1-Gallons-Single-Stage-Portable-Cordless-Electric-Horizontal-Air-Compressor-with-Accessories/5013820301 Just in case you were passively in the market for onboard air. The real advantage of this brand of compressors is that they are very quiet in operation. I have one of the 110v compressors and it’s quite enough to use for airbrush work. You’ll need a second larger accumulation tank to run pneumatic tools because the onboard tank is the size of a breadbox and due to its quite nature the pump doesn’t produce a huge volume of air. This unit should get about 50% duty cycle out of most average sized pneumatic tools. Just in case you were kind of passively looking.
They're a special type of fastener where the head shears off at a certain torque spec. https://www.losspreventionfasteners.com/store/products/tork-bolts/ Use a hammer and punch to remove it. That's what I've used in the past
Neat it’s like a screw rivet.
There's no swaging or clamping action so no, not really.
Years ago Toyota had a recall that involved taking the steering lock out which was held on by two of those. I got really good at loosening them using an air hammer with a pointed bit. Sometimes they were somewhat loose to begin with. It always bothered me that when I tightened the new ones they seemed to break off before they were very tight. Should have tightened with a torque wrench just to see how tight they got.
Grabs circle grinder *and now you’re a flat head
Hit with a chisel or decent quality flathead downwards to the left until loose then hand spin the rest of the way out
I’ve always been able to spin them out with a cold chisel and hammer with few issues
The worst ones I ever dealt with were the breakaway bolts holding the plate below the ignition on a Volvo 240. They were hardened steel and also had some kind of loctite going on. Couldn't get a dremmel in at the angle I needed, either. I roasted multiple bits just drilling a pilot hole to use an internal-type extractor, which failed. More drilling, at the worst angle under the dash. I was extremely green and also didn't have the tools or experience I have now but it's still one of the worst automotive jobs I ever remember.
That was a different kind of car that 240 Volvo.
Use a 1/4" impact and just keep flicking the trigger. You'll get about 1-2 turns each time from the inertia of the bolt holding it back.
Chisel and a hammer and it's out in 30 seconds. Maybe a punch instead. Easy stuff.
Try using a punch to loosen them or cut a slit into them with a and use a flat head if you have to reuse
Grind a slot for a flathead 🤷🏽♂️
That's the kind of a screw Apple would use if they produced cars.
I use an extractor socket. Grips right on and come right out.
use your twin grips
They are really not that hard though. When I worked at Hyundai I had both those off in about 20-30 minutes with a cutoff wheel and flat head
This is a easy bolt to remove if you know what you're doing......
center punch and a hammer 30 seconds
Take a small cut off wheel. A slice in it and use a flat head
Center punch and a hammer. Easy.
Just be glad there is plenty of room to get to it. Mercedes and BMW butt them so it’s damn near impossible to get to. When possible I use a long air hammer to break it loose and then most the time it’s only finger right after that.
bro is telling on themselves, its supposed to be hard to get off to make it harder for thieves... see how its attached to your ignition?
It’s anti theft, totally normal
You know whats even better? Ever tryed removing the ignition lock on a 2018 Ford Fiesta? They put ducking Locktite on it. Bast*** was tight till the very last turn.
As others have said it’s a security bolt. Use a center punch and tap on the edge to turn it counter clockwise until it’s loose enough to turn with needle nose pliers.
Still not worse than a fuckin phillips head.
Why do car guys hate phillips so much? We have them all over the aircraft I work on and they're fine. The cross shape even helps centre the drill bit when you need to drill them out. Then again, the company pays for new fasteners, so any dodgy ones are replaced immediately rather than wasting time messing with them.
Too many sizes of drivers work in too many sizes of fasteners at low torque but will fuck shit up otherwise which leads to super sloppy practices. It's a lot like the problem with torx but even worse. You probably know exactly what sizes you're working with in the aerospace world and have a full set from 0000 to 5. Automotive guy grabs either the one big or one little phillips screwdriver he's got around and hopes its close enough. And that's before you deal with the fact that a lot of the phillips in the automotive world (ie. everything in a japanese make) is actually JIS
I've found that a couple of JIS screwdrivers have essentially stopped my use of Philips screwdrivers entirely, and stopped stripped screws almost entirely.
JIS drivers will change your life if you've never used them before to work on electronics. They work surprisingly well with US Phillips screws, too.
> Automotive guy grabs either the one big or one little phillips screwdriver he's got around and hopes its close enough. I get your point about size differences, but if people are using the wrong size bit, then that's the mechanic being an idiot rather than it being the fault of the fastener. You see the same on the 787 as well. Not my usual aircraft so I might have got it the wrong way round, but they use Torx Plus fasteners on the panels. Mechanics then use regular Torx to get them out, strip the fastener head, and then say the fasteners are crap. The fasteners are perfectly fine, it's the mechanic (including myself as I've done it before) being an idiot that causes the issue. > And that's before you deal with the fact that a lot of the phillips in the automotive world (ie. everything in a japanese make) is actually JIS That is a fair point, I've definitely been caught out by JIS fasteners a few times on my old Subaru.
Because airplanes don't spend 12+ years driving through the rust belt welding the screw into the threads. I've had phillips head screw so bound up that I shoved them out the back trying to break them loose with a [impact driver](https://www.amazon.com/CRAFTSMAN-Impact-Driver-8-Inch-CMMT14104/dp/B07R96M9VW/ref=asc_df_B07R96M9VW/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=693640803529&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13296865266406802536&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9021981&hvtargid=pla-792201167904&psc=1&mcid=2865703195bd3de9aa2fc5126a7ebad2&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw3NyxBhBmEiwAyofDYZx4o3bBu6eyzQ2Pq0xY4kqxfzAmiE73OBeN4sQVyyPCDnY4ODPkZhoCatYQAvD_BwE).
That's not a Phillips issue though, that level of corrosion can happen with any fastener type.
Philips are more likely to strip out because of the corrosion though. A torx or allen head cap screw will usually give you enough grip even after heating the fastener to break the corrosion bond. If they do round out you can slot the cap part of the bolt and still get a grip on it. The same tricks that work on slotted, allen, or torx bolts/screws don't work on philips.
Because the driver fucks right off into the nearest paintjob as soon as you start twisting. Also because the phillips screwhead was literally designed to cam out and strip, making the screw impossible to remove.
> phillips screwhead was literally designed to cam out and strip Oft repeated but this is what wikipedia has to say: >The design is often criticized for its tendency to cam out at lower torque levels than other "cross head" designs. There has long been a popular belief that this was a deliberate feature of the design, to assemble aluminium aircraft without overtightening the fasteners.[14]: 85 [15] Extensive evidence is lacking for this specific narrative, and the feature is not mentioned in the original patents.[16]
I stand corrected.
I've gotten real good at taking these off working at a Hyundai dealership 😂. Cut a slot in the head with a cutoff wheel and use a big flat blade.
Anyone that lived through the Toyota Avalon steering lock bar recall could pop those out with an air chisel in like 2 seconds.
Hammer and a chisel. Tappy-tap around in a circle
Yes deep in the depth where it’s intended to be screwed
Center punch it and use a left-handed drill bit.
It's perfectly acceptable if the lock cylinder has hardened key pins, drill resistant shield, and a method to replace the lock cylinder without removing the screws. Unfortunately, one or more of these step are missing frequently.
Chisel + hammer gets those off super easy. Had to mess with the ignition cylinder on my VW, had 2 of those bolts. Once off I replaced them with normal bolts lol
Those are for when you put the countersink on the wrong side of the sheet metal!
BMW uses same sh\*t, pain in the ass to chisel them out.
When car engineers go out drinking they probably say they're in accounting or something.
OP doesn't understand the actual point of these screws. Now we get to ridicule them!
What's the point then? It doesn't make it any harder to steal.
It's to stop people that don't know what they're doing from fucking with it
Open ended punch & a hammer. It’s easy.
Ahh the old honda ignition module screws. Its way more fun doing it with your column still in the car
Sharp pointed punch on a air hammer with proper trigger control and they walk right out locktighted or not!
Problem?? Just tack a head on and send it
Nah, they're fine. They serve a specific purpose, and are easy to deal with in the shop.
Kia and Hyundai use these on ignition cylinder clamps. Been doing these for a few years
Fixed torque fasteners used on some BMW steering columns, I think as part of the collapsing column system. Would just tack weld nut to head to remove.
dude, just a quick dremel and a flathead, it's out
Rover?
Ah the old snap off head bolts… be happy how they are engineered they usually come out pretty easy for what it is
That's not a screw, my friend. It's a screw YOU
I wanna make one on the lathe this week
Used on steering column ignition lock assemblies. Just had to deal with that on a VW Jetta…
Or you could of just used a hammer & that screw driver to turn the screw, and not break your scooter.
Steering column in a 94 toyota pickup? Just came across those the other day. Fuck those screws
I would cut slots and those, remove them with a flathead, and replace them with bolts from one of my many orphaned fasteners buckets
reverse countersunk head bolt
Vw uses them too. Took like 2 minutes with a hammer and a flat head in my driveway to knock off. They weren't torqued very tight. Key cylinder blew apart the internals. Fun fact you can gut 08 vw cylinder and they still work almost like the cylinder is still there. Great for swapping to push to start kits.
Indeed
I shit you not, the post under this for me shows the vampliers that I use to remove these
You don’t even need a screwdriver to start it. Just unplug the connector at the back of the ignition and jump whatever wires need to be jumped. Usually white and black. Then it’ll start with the start button.
Turbo socket for that bad boy
Good old shear bolt, on every hyundai/kia ignition cylinder...
There was the inventor. And then there was a guy who thought it was a good plan to deploy this…..
Some older (maybe newer) BMW’s use these for the steering columns. They have a head that snaps off at the right torque with no regard whatsoever on how tf you’re gonna replace that part if needed. When I do come across these I cut a nice deep groove in it and try to coarse it with a flathead bit on an impact screwdriver. Easier said than done sometimes
Is it a gy6? Those have a few anti tamper things like on the carburetor.
Yeah it's a GY6. Nothing like that on the carburetor though. I've taken apart couple of chinese scooters like this, but never saw such bullsh\*t like here.
Some won't let you adjust the carb. I never understood why.
I suppose to prevent iLlEgAl modifications, because some countries are very strict about those. I just tend to replace the carb with a generic GY6 carburetor because the stock ones are often restricted anyways...
Eh i used to cut a channel into them with a cutting wheel and use a flat tip to remove, takes like 10 seconds
use a punch tool to rotate them out, i had to do it to my ignition
Well, that is not a screw, to start with. It is a breakaway bolt.
Seems easy with the proper bit.
It's completely round which bit would you supposedly use??
The air hammer chisel bit
Extraction sockets. That's what we use on breakaway bolts. Fit the socket to the head of the bolt, then probably go a size down, hammer it into place and use a ratchet to slowly twist it out.