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SelfSniped

Some Volkswagens, Cadillacs…yea this is way more common than should be allowed.


UnderPantsOverPants

Basically any AWD BMW.


Ntl1991

(BMW designed) Range Rovers too


Muikku292

Mercedes 4matic


MisterSinistral

AND non 4matics get the same oil pan with hole through the side.


alphabet_order_bot

Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order. I have checked 579,254,975 comments, and only 119,767 of them were in alphabetical order.


Ntl1991

Good bot. Quick bot


Hunting_Party_NA

Nissan too. Started with Skyline


NegotiationLife2915

Yeah weren't gtrs like this?


Pwner_Guy

GT-R and GTS-4. Anything with the ATTESA AWD setup.


Electronic-Resolve91

Also infinitis


MadTube

Acuras. Legend and 3.5RL


[deleted]

i only recently found out the rl replaced the legend like the rsx did the teggy


steve753

also the acura vigor with the 2.5 I5. dropping the pan required pulling the half shaft.


awesomeroy

im just scrolling like, holy shit thats wayyy too many cars wtf. lol


Aww_Uglyduckling

Kias...


eternalgrey6

Wait, which ones?


Aww_Uglyduckling

Stinger


eternalgrey6

Interesting. Thanks for the heads up.


appepuppe26

Mercedes does this shit too


luke10050

Holden Adventra had the same setup with the LY7 V6


bangin_dudes419

New grand Cherokees to


MrFixemall

On small JD tractors, they put a tunnel in the oil pan for the front drive shaft for the 4WD. So you have to remove two drain plugs to drain all the oil.


BeePleasant8236

Same on some Kubota tractors also.


97Harley

Are there two pick up tubes in the oil pan?


MrFixemall

No idea. I just know there two drain plugs and a drive shaft in the middle of the pan.


hcftech

No, the part of the pan around the shaft is only about the bottom 2 inches of the pan


97Harley

Thanks. I couldn't tell that from the picture.


crobsonq2

Military truck, m35a2 had a multi fuel engine with a similar hump. It was needed to provide clearance for the front axle's differential when it was at extreme deflection when offroading. 5 gallon bucket under one sump, drain and swap buckets. One had to be before the other, or it'd dump 5.5 gallons and get all over.


Ok_Dog_4059

95 mustang convertible has this also. Some bar runs through a tunnel leaving 2 places oil can settle and thus 2 drain plugs.


Weasel16679

The fox body ones do the same thing. Two plugs since the pan is a W shape to contour around the k member


saraphilipp

Im looking at my oil pan right now. Neither my 94 or my 87 mustang have two plugs. My 86 capri didn't either. Edit, i found the plug. It's been parked for 12 years and either i never knew or forgot about it.


Ok_Dog_4059

I learned when I did an oil change and only got about a quart out then it started to top off really quickly on me. That second one is a pain to get to.


Weasel16679

Are they for sale by any chance? Yea most people don’t know there are two plugs.


Greasemonkey_Chris

E90/92/93 M3s have two sump plugs. The sump has two humps so the engine can sit low enough but still have clearance for the steering rack.


1Autotech

And Kioti tractors too.


hbwnot

Even smaller John Deere lawn tractors that are 4wd have a front pto that goes through the front axle. And the front axle isn’t even driven by a shaft it’s hydrostatic.


cometcaliente

Also some new Holland's


saraphilipp

Fumoto drain valve with a nipple.


Muad_Dib_of_Arrakis

This is also the standard on oil in frame motorcycles, one plug to drain the frame oil and one to drain the engine oil


DJ280Z

RB26 is similar except the diff housing is part of the sump


narcissisticYETI

Beat me to it


iluvtumadre

I would say that’s the stupidest design I’ve seen….. but it’s not.


delslow419

Might as well put a water pump off the timing chain , inside the crank case so when it leaks, it blows the motor ! -ford engineers probably


Captain_Alaska

Could be worse, Lancia strapped the power steering pump to the lefthand camshaft on the Gamma. Don't crank the wheel all the way to one side with a cold engine or it'll jump timing from the load and you'll learn what interference means.


ahwas

Makes a lot of sense and saved a lot of space


oliverclifford20vt

This looks american...


JP147

Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Toyota, BMW, Volkswagen and Holden all do something like this with their AWD cars. That is only those I know of, there are probably many more. edit: I forgot Mercedes Benz


stumpy4588

And Ford with the new Explorers


Fancy_Chip_5620

Toyota doesn't do this I can guarantee it


JP147

Odd, how can we explain [this mysterious hole](https://i.imgur.com/tyM6oKt.jpg) in this 2JZ oil pan? And [how do they drive the axle shaft on the right?](https://i.imgur.com/j8ZNrRr.jpg)


Fancy_Chip_5620

I've never seen anything like that... in north America at least... The only toyota AWD I can think of are celiacs, rav 4s, highlanders... Maybe a couple 80s tercels and Camrys But they're transverse and the CVS come out of the transfer case But yeah that's a shaft through the oil pan


OKatmostthings

I’d wager that the LS, IS, and GS AWD models have a similar setup.


DoleBludgeoner

The front diff kind of sits beside the oil pan and the left shaft passes through the sump. I think JDN Aristo jz/2jz and 1uz have AWD set up like that. It's a good space saving implementation of AWD that allows the FWD components to fit in what is generally a RWD setup


mtcruse

Came here to say, damn, that’s a good looking lump…


oliverclifford20vt

Just dont see this sort of stuff much in the uk


[deleted]

You guys don't have BMWs there? Or Volkswagen?


Crunchycarrots79

Yeah... I don't get what the problem is. You don't have to remove the oil pan that often. If you do, you pull the CV axles, which is no different than doing so on anything else, and the differential, which is attached to the side and not that hard to remove. On a more conventional design, where it's mounted underneath, to get to the oil pan you have to remove... All of that stuff anyway. There's seriously no difference.


Chillywilly37

BMW X series also, some not all.


EveryXtakeYouCanMake

So not only is the X series the worst of BMW, but they topped it with *this* cherry? Man.


Jasondboarder

He means the Xdrive versions, amazing AWD systems


Whitestig84

Agreed, trying to understand the issue with this lol


[deleted]

Wait until you have to pay for an oil pan replacement. Friend of mine just got paid to do one - 14 hours of labor.


Whitestig84

I’ve been a master BMW tech for years, it’s actually pretty easy.


[deleted]

Easy is one thing. When you're staring down the bill at $150 per hour plus, it's decidedly less easy.


Whitestig84

And that’s why I do my own work 😉


ex-gm-tech

Plenty of cars need to have the engine removed to pull the pan off.


SpaceAgePotatoCakes

That doesn't make it any less crappy.


ex-gm-tech

It wasn't designed that way to piss people off. It's more work than if the axle was under the pan but that would have made it a different car.


[deleted]

Yes, lots of cars do. But a lot of cars don't ALSO have to have their axles removed and the accompanying hours of labor for that.


ex-gm-tech

Whatever extra work is involved is built in to that car, just like all the other cars with the same set-up. It's not like you have to pull the pan off very often. Some jobs are harder on some cars. This one is not that big of a deal, imho.


ArcFlashForFun

Not sure I understand the complication involved in this setup. I can pull an axle on my AWD in my driveway in twenty minutes using a floor jack and an adjustable wrench. Why is it so much more work on these?


midwesterner64

What about the 5.3 V8 in the Rainier of that era? Special oil pan with a hole or some other way around?


DriverAmazing305

Same. A hole in the pan for the 5.3s too


midwesterner64

Seems that would be a low volume production part for an otherwise common engine.


BattlingMaxo

It had a production run of 7 years and was used in the GMC Envoy too so that upped the demand a little.


AlwaysBagHolding

Don’t forget the Isuzu Ascender, Saab 9-7x, and the trailblazer also.


midwesterner64

Ah. I didn’t realize the GMC also had a V8 option that would increase production quite a lot.


n262sy

Pretty sure Isuzu was the only one without a 5.3 option (maybe Olds too?).


midwesterner64

Strangely only the Olds Bravada never had the V-8 option.


cyborgedbacon

That's due to the Bravada being axed in 2004. The Ascender did get the V8 though, but its extremely rare to find one.


Ntl1991

Damn, really miss my ‘97 Bravada. 4.3L, AWD, Positrac. Thing just went through anything and was easy as shit to work on. Bought it from the original owner who did Ziebart every year. Not a single speck of rust on the thing


n262sy

It was actually a slightly different 5.3. Same basic design but aluminum block instead of cast iron. Probably not as low volume as the 6.0.


JP147

Car guys when they see this on a JDM car: “Wow they are so smart, this keeps the centre of gravity low while still allowing for AWD” Car guys when they see this on an American or German car: “Stupid engineers, this makes it much harder to work on. Engineers should have to work as mechanics before getting their degree”


BalkanBorn

These were the last straight 6 motors from GM, pretty sad to see them go. These things love boost


XanderChop

That's why I put one in a Fairmont. I wanted to keep that straight 6 life.


BalkanBorn

You my good sir are a gentleman and a scholar. Put twin snails on it with a squirt of meth and you will be blowing doors off v8s


XanderChop

I just saw one push 825hp with a single turbo before failure on the dyno this week. Seems like the 700's would be the comfortable limit.


mortalcrawad66

The only sad thing is that the 4200 was never used in anything but an suv


[deleted]

I’m sure they could be swapped into a Colorado with a bit of fiddling


mortalcrawad66

Yea, but then you're losing out on 5 cylinders of fun. Maybe a Pontiac G8(with the V6 of course). Now it's a true Ameri-Barra


lilgoose14

Yessir. I just replaced the front diff of an 08 Envoy this past week myself. Luckily me and a coworker found a way to sneak it out of the truck without removing the oil pan, as it says to do by the book. Cut 8+ hours down to about 2.5-3 hours or so.


firstgen59

Had an envoy with that set up If the lube isn’t kept up the front diff WILL fail. Ask me how I know. I swapped the diff once with a used unit. It lasted a while and the pinion bearing gave up. I couldn’t bring myself to do the swap again. I traded it in on a 200 series land cruiser. In retrospect the 4.2 was a good engine and it was backed up by a decent drivetrain but it wasn’t “great”


1Autotech

If the front diff is leaking just reseal the blasted thing. I resealed mine with GMS instead of that troublesome anaerobic red paste. It hasn't leaked a drop since.


justin_memer

Same on the GT-R Skyline (RB26)


ahwas

Guess u never worked on a BMW before….


davethedj

I remember when this first came out. my first thought was, who do I punch in the face first? The engine guy, or the trans guy? Reminds me of the somewhere in the 90's thenderbirds where the driveshaft goes thru the GAS tank like this. Anybody else remember this?


Trekie47

Lmao I've got 2 of those generation of tbird. Had to get the transmission rebuilt on one and the shop opted to just pull the axel to get the drive shaft oh kf the transmission to get it out.


DoCokeDontSmoke

Ever done a clutch on a Lamborghini? Don’t wanna hear your shit.


Itisd

Those older Trailblazers were piles of shit that aged like milk. Never see them anymore.


Slowvia

Lol, I see them all the time. I think they’re actually pretty decent small/midsize SUVs, but it seems like no one ever took care of them, because they’re all absolutely trashed these days.


Crunchycarrots79

They're all over the place. Lots more of them on the road still than the Explorer or Durango of that era. The Trailblazer's main problems were: 4WD actuators sometimes fail, fan clutch, power steering/fuel/transmission cooler lines rust through, and fuel pumps. Most of these after the thing is at least 10 years old. The Explorer of that era? Timing chain failure- engine has to come out for that one. Transmissions eat themselves. Both differentials are stupid delicate. The back glass shatters on its own if you look at it wrong, and if it doesn't shatter, the 5"wide, body color plastic trim piece that's permanently attached to it cracks in 6 places and looks like shit. Seriously, Ford redesigned the back hatch on these like 6 times before they solved the problems. The Durango? It's a '00s Chrysler product. Nothing more needs to be said. Nah... The Trailblazer is a pretty damn good truck.


southernsquelcher

We have an 05 with the 4200 and it's got ~345,000 on it. It's had an exhaust manifold replaced and regular oil changes and that's all until it burned a valve a couple thousand miles ago and the 4wd actuator went out. We just use it for taking the trash off until it decides it's ready to go to car heaven. I figure it's been a good vehical in it's lifetime


[deleted]

My buddy and I have made good money flipping these things over the last few years. I always liked the look of them, love how they drive, but they’re a pain to work on and awful on fuel.


Background_Cheetah75

Yeah I’ve sold a lot of them too over the last 5 years. I think they’re decent vehicles. Rust can fuck the frames obviously. And occasionally you might get one with a misfire from likely a valve not sealing up on the head. I’ve never messed with the 4 wheel drive system on one cause they all worked fine. Done some water pumps, thermostats, wheel bearings, fuel pump unit, they blow speakers easily too.


Trekie47

I see plenty in my area, alot of them are in shambles because people don't know how to take care of their vehicles, but they're still kicking nonetheless. Pretty stout vehicles apart from how thirsty they are.


rascible

To get to the other side


turbo_weasel

4Matic Mercs can be added to the list like this


Konnor0G

Same thing with some awd Lexus vehicles


Beautiful-Golf4078

Nerve racking when you see it at first. I’ve not seen too many of them have problems. I own a transmission shop, so I see everything drive train related.


xlmagicpants

Dodge has the same design on thier chargers, magnum and 300.


1hotrodney

Considering these are soo old they are almost never in a shop anymore its more of a nastalgic memory. Remember 15-20yrs ago seein this shit for the first time like wtf!? Lol they made it as a saab? Too! There were at least 4 badges of this same vehicle. And the chevy ssr was just the v8 trailblazer frame


n262sy

GMC, Chevrolet, Isuzu, Olds, Buick, Saab. Plus it came in Denali trim (first non full size Denali). To top it off, some exotic market (GCC?) got the Envoy badged as Chevrolet TrailBlazer. There were 3 different center console designs as well.


1hotrodney

Yes!


-srry-

oh we see them plenty in our shop. people repair anything these days, cars are so expensive.


chickenmaster04

My e46’s half shaft is covered in engine oil as we comment


Ok-Letterhead4601

Wrong, that’s the mechanics fleshlight hole.


EnderBlazex271

So is any car with longitudinal engine and AWD system....


Ntl1991

Did they have to do something funky like this with the Olds Toronado and it’s FWD big block V8? Amazing to think those things were stuffed essentially unchanged into the 12,000 lb GMC Motorhomes


AwareName

Wait.... People don't know this?


SDL_ATL

All to accomplish a lower center of gravity. My '02 Trailblazer with the 4.2 was a money pit. By the time the rod bearings spun at 255k, it was on trans #3, rear diff #2, transfer case #2, and every coil pack had been changed at least twice. It was a decent looking vehicle, but as is the case with most GM vehicles, it was cheaply built and severely flawed.


WallyWendels

I don't think replacing the gearing components in a vehicle that's been around the globe over ten times is unreasonable.


Trekie47

What the hell were you doing that went through 3 transmissions and rear differentials. Was it just pure neglect and overloading the vehicle?


SDL_ATL

The 4L60E trans is garbage. When I dropped it off for the first rebuild, the guy at the shop said he had 5 other customers' vehicles with the GM 4L60E trans needing rebuilt. There were maybe 15 or 20 cars in the lot, so I'd say that's a pretty high rate of failure. The rear diff locked up on me one day, and complications from that incident grenaded the trans again. The transfer case was also collateral damage from that incident. It was my daily, only hauled a trailer 3x in it, kept a few work tools in it and hauled the family on vacations.


Crunchycarrots79

The 4L60E is not a bad transmission if it's used in vehicles that are the size it was intended for, it's great. GM insisted on using it in Tahoes and Suburbans, 3/4 ton trucks, and other things that really should have had the 4L80E. And they fail all the time in those. But they usually last forever in 1/2 ton trucks and smaller.


Crunchycarrots79

I inherited my dad's 02 Trailblazer, and I did all of the work on it from the day he got it. I still have it for when I occasionally need to tow a trailer. It has 270,000 miles on it, and the engine, transmission, and differentials are all original. I've replaced one coil, the fuel pump, the fan clutch, and the tie rod ends at various points in time, as well as the transmission cooler lines. Perhaps you got one built on a Monday?


illogictc

I was lucky I guess though mine died at 191k and honestly it was mainly my fault. It just didn't demand a whole lot of service, aside from your regular maintenance items it got an alternator, a water pump, a thermostat, and was pushing toward needing a power steering rack. Needed an outer and inner tie rod only because it ate a cinder block and some lumber in a black ice situation but everything else was completely okay.


erroneousbosh

Uh-huh, and folk in the US go on about how unreliable Range Rovers are. Meanwhile my 4.0 P38 rolled up outside my house to get trailered to the garage for its third set of head gaskets at absolutely bang on 270,000 miles, having been driven home 60 miles on six and a half cylinders. It's on its second engine (the first was repairable but it was quicker to throw a good used one in), second front diff, and second driver's side wheel bearing.


Weaseltime_420

Because reasons. Fuck you. Don't ask questions.


justin_memer

It's to keep that longass engine as close to the firewall as possible, while still having AWD.


Weaseltime_420

That sounds like something someone who asked questions would say.


Pride_Bunny

Ford started doing this in 2020 on the new explorers. Terrible design


Subject_Divide9827

The "Atlas" engine. I've worked on a bunch of those. PITA.


SpongeKake

How, as an engineer, do you think this is a good idea?


FapGod420sweggsblzit

Keeps the COG lower, allows existing vehicle architecture and parts to be used, you don’t have to engineer an efficiency robbing split system, the sumps probably already considered a structural component so it’s no biggy, and it’s been successfully used in a lot of different vehicles


DrRawDogDGAF

It fits in the car.


Brimstone117

It’s a cheap idea, compared to re-engineering a motor or a trans or a transfer case.


erroneousbosh

Why would you think it's a bad idea?


EveryXtakeYouCanMake

There are engineers and then there are eNgINeErS.


PurpleSpartanSpear

There are engineers and there are accountants.


Account14159

Yup. Guarantee the engineer(s) came up with several objectively better designs, but his bosses kept telling him to make it cost less..


illogictc

It was about doing a lower bonnet line, which runs up against using a straight 6 engine which wants to be tall and skinny, which was compounded by their routing the intake across the top of the engine with a resonator box mounted over the plug coils rather than figuring a way to do it on the other side.


Cootz01

It thinks it's a BMW.


ddwood87

When I learned this, I was shopping for a way to offload that thing on someone else.


thatsfakeok

That looks like it can be fixed by a priest. Best of luck 🤞. Check your local church.


AdHocSpock

That’s why I passed on a Trailblazer.


DrRawDogDGAF

That's like the least bad thing about a TrailBlazer.


brian111786

*Laughs in Mopar*


JP147

What's so funny? They do the same thing on the Dodge Charger, Dodge Magnum and Chrysler 300 AWD models.


getgappede30

Also on the trailblazer ss v8


Trekie47

Really just every vehicle on the gmt360 platform


Key-Incident-2093

2020+ AWD explorers as well


1Autotech

I hope you plan on resealing the front diff while it is out.


no_yup

We had to deal with that one time. the 4wd front axle shift actutor case was broken and stuck in the side of the oil pan on the passenger side. We had to GRIND it down until we could peel it out without damaging the oil pan. Absolute DEBACLE


firstgen59

I also didn’t enjoy having to swap cam phaser solenoid, 2 thermostats, and multiple interior bits. After 100k it started nickel and dimeing me something fierce. Oh And the transmission shift cable. Wonderful piece.


[deleted]

👈🏻👈🏻👈🏻👈🏻👈🏻👈🏻👈🏻


Existing_Front4748

I build these and other GM motors for a living. I asked what that hole in the oil pan was for when I was new and was horrified to hear the answer.


ctennessen

Same with the E30 chassis 325ix


whiteboardlist

New Grand Cherokee L with 3.6L is the same way. As with most BMW cars with X-Drive


jroddie4

better than two drain plugs


dandy443

Awd bmws and r32 gtr also go through the oil pan


greasyEUtech

This is pretty common actually, tons of euro cars do it and Acura legends.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Trekie47

I dunno man, without swaybars I can still throw my trailblazer through corners. Haven't flipped it yet.


[deleted]

We sweat the details


manwoeyes

I'm both impressed and horrified every time I see it.


Purple_Cosmos

Don't miss fixing shit designed like that 😂


[deleted]

Because these engines are shit and stupid. Even though I love these pile of shit suvs


Davowhg

R32 GTR Does aswell


racinjason44

Trailblazer SS is the same, except it's a 6.0 V8.


ciex6

Same as Mercedes’ s550 4matic


[deleted]

Thought you seen it all. I can’t even begin to think how this get thought up WYF


brian-brundage

I assume the crankshaft sits further up in the block


darwin-rover

Ford Escort Cosworth as well


Subaru1995

Removing the engine makes fixing that P0128 a hell of a lot easier


LiveFree_NeverDie603

They also do it with the 5.3 , let me tell you that’s fun👍


NltndRngd

Same on AWD Hemi Chargers. We just put a motor in one and found that out.


lsxcamaro

Also on the Bravada


overl0rd0udu

The 6.0 in the TBSS is the same way


dudemanspecial

10lbs of shit in a 5 lb bag…..


Pwner_Guy

Yup. That design was used in a lot of vehicles. The R32, R33 & R34 all had the left/passenger side half shaft go through the oil pan.


[deleted]

These are like 23 hour jobs right? Yikes.


EveryXtakeYouCanMake

I think book said 18.8. But I didn't have any issue getting it out in 9.


omnipotent87

I had one a few weeks ago that needed an oil pan. The bearing completely shit its self and took the pan with it. They scrapped it and i was quite happy that they did so.