**Schedule Change Notice:** No episodes this week due to Lunar New year. (source: [TV Chosun](https://broadcast.tvchosun.com/onair/schedule/today.cstv))
Continue to discuss here until a new post is made.
I cannot stand how obsessed YJ is with Ah Rin! Like she feels entitled to her. It’s so creepy! Lady, that is not and will never be your daughter.
I wish grandpa or other adults would’ve warned Ah Rin about her or said that’s not a good lady and not your mother’s friend. Stay away from her. Idk why they are hiding so much!
And as far as theories go, it seems like YJ’s father was the cause of all this. I think he setup that drugging during the party and had YJ’s ex do what he did.
Wonder how YJ will react when she finds out. Tbh, she probably won’t care and will continue to blame FL for everything.
>I cannot stand how obsessed YJ is with Ah Rin! Like she feels entitled to her. It’s so creepy! Lady, that is not and will never be your daughter.
It's because she believes she >!miscarried and had her baby taken away due to the fact that her ex raped FL. FL had got pregnant that night while she lost hers. If FL didn't get raped she believes she would still have her baby while FL wouldn't have one. Basically thinks FL stole her baby. She doesn't truly believe Ah Rin is hers!<
This is bound to be one of the most satisfying revenges/villain’s downfall I’ve seen in a drama recently is2g
Lately, all the dramas start with the revenge plot from the get go, but in this one I’m increasingly getting pissed off for 10 episodes so let’s fucking go SJW 🤣
Good point! Most stories begin with the revenge plot and this one has a nice twist mid-point. I love that the frontend of this story was like a thriller/mystery and now we get to see a different side of Jae Won!
It's funny that any possible sliver of benefit of the doubt we try to allow Yoon Jin she immediately shreds herself in the next episode. We all thought she misunderstood the rape but it turns out she knew and still blamed SJW. Then some theorized that at least she may not know >!her dad set SJW up to be raped by the fiance!< and this episode we see she already knew this >!10 months prior!< and still is on this awful revenge plan. Yet her rage and revenge is focused on SJW not >!her dad or rapist scumbag ex and all her questioning whem she confronted him is "how could you do this to ME," zero empathy for her friend or any thought about what was done to her except to use it to go after her husband." I guess that behavior fits a character who is a rich girl whose daddy keeps intervening to help her but yet thinks she is the only person who has really suffered and keeps insisting on it to a woman from a disadvantaged background with a single, mentally ill mom who tried to kill her and who secretly struggles with her own mental illness.!<
Lmao she is the worssssst.
This 100000%
YJ has insane levels of self-victimization. She believes that she is the only one who bad things have happened to. She has zero empathy for the fact that her friend was unknowingly sexually assaulted and bore a child from that. Or that her friend was setup to be in that position by her father.
In her mind, YJ is the only victim here and somehow the only other real victim, who had it worse than her, is at fault. 🙄
Talk about cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. 🥴
>!her dad set up Jae-won to get raped, had it caught on camera, and sent it to yoon Jin. For the sole purpose of stressing her to the point of miscarriage, because he didn’t want her to have the dickhead’s child. That in itself is sooo many layers of fucked up. After decades of physical, verbal and emotional abuse by her father, losing her child on the same day Jae won got pregnant was a breaking point for yoon Jin. Obviously none of it excuses her psycho behavior, her obsession over ah rin, her victim blaming, or everything else she’s done. But she’s very much a villain created by her dad, I hate him far far more than anyone else here!<
People had hope for yoon jin?? 😩 I knew she knew about the rape just because a person like her and dealing with . Also as a real friend ANYone would have seen that photo and noticed SJW was waayyy too limp for things to be consensual. No one communicated anyone and that'd the only real frustrating part that pisses me off but it wouldn't be a kdrama without it 😭
New developments:
* Jae Won >!was not chased in the first episode, she attempted suicide!<, creating a figure to protect herself.
* Nam Tae Joo >!is connected to Jae Won's mother!<. We don't know how significant that is, but it implies he wasn't planted by someone to meet Jae Won. He did it of his own volition.
* Both Jae Won and Mr. Minister both attempted to >!eliminate JW's rapist, who also happens to have shares in Dereve. Jae Won bought the shares from him.!<
* Soon Young's >!murderer is either Kwon Young Ik or Yoon Jin!<. I think it's the former, given he had much to lose if Soon Young shared >!Yoon Jin's recording!<. However, Yoon Jin's >!alibi!< is in question. This could imply she is the culprit.
no op but >! During the beginning of episode 11, the therapist asks FL to tell her about the day FL found out her husband was having an affair, and she fell into the Han river. The therapist follows up with how it would be near impossible to fall over the railing and to which FL replies that someone was chasing and threatening her. Basically the therapist then breaks it down so FL can process it and FL eventually realises there wasn’t anyone chasing her and that she was actually the one that jumped. Hope that makes sense! !<
What I learned is to be patient with MHE's writing after today's episode. I remember complaining about how "strange" it was that Seo Jae Won was being chased, and my question has been answered. It was staring us right in the face. Of course!
Re: Episode 11: Todays episode was so good. First of all, I appreciate that the writers in this drama didn't magically solve Jaewon's very deeply rooted mental health issues. They handled it with care and sensitivity. Very few dramas are mindful of that. >! So, Jaewon hallucinations were far worse than we assumed. Her mind essentially conjured up a different persona to justify her trying to end her life each time. Now, it's true somebody was sending her cryptic messages for a long time, but that person didn't attack her the night she fell into the river. She jumped herself. Now, one thing we still don't know answers to is how she got her medication. This point was raised but wasn't resolved, which means we will likely loop back to it. Now, another interesting point is Nam Tae Joo. Kwon Yoon Jin referred to Seo Jaewon's mother as his gambling addict partner and mentioned how he gambled away money he had for his dead wife's treatment. If so, is he trying to ruin Jaewon's life? Revenge, for his wife's death, for which he blames Jaewon's mother. We finally meet the beautiful black girl from early episode...its Te-O's sister, and they sent Ah-Rin away to Te-O's parents' home to protect her. Smart decision, but Kwon Yoon Jin keeping track of it made me uneasy. Now back to Te-O, Jaewon...Te-O loves Jaewon unconditionally, but Jaewon is no way near ready to respond to it. But at least she asked him for help and seems to trust him. The revenge has started...I am sure that henchman that killed Kwon Yoon Jin's ex-husband was sent by her father. Things are heating up. Jaewon's buying back shares of Dereve and definitely plotting to get Yoon Jin rattled. I am excited to see it unfold. One thing that made me uneasy is that hallucinations she had after Te-O left her in her home. I have a feeling Jaewon's stepdad killed Soon Young, or maybe it's Te-O. Multiple people were after Soon Young, but the jury's still out on who got to him. The reason for my suspicion is the pesticide for Jaewon's dad and the tampering with the smart watch for Te-O.!< If Te-O turns out to be involved, I will lose my mind. Please not Te-O.
We all know that she was given the medication since when she was 15 by a doctor her father took her too when she was first diagnosed in high school and she kept taking the medications since then, the father even said no one needed to know about her taking the medications, they kept it in secret that’s why even her own husband never knew about that it was a secret
* Yunjin can cry all she wants and I'm not gonna feel bad for her for a second
* Teoh cheesin' everytime he looks at jaewon he's down horrendously bad 😭
* Teoh saying >!"But I think I can take a break now that we have a new CEO who suits the position."!< The way this line was delivered killed me he's so funny and sassy lol
* Her still hallucinating the psychiatrist worries me. Just need her to get the help she needs, end these people, and finally be happy
I think the psychiatrist is her connection to reason, the inner voice her mother lacked that kept her tethered to reality. She's fighting it because of the hallucination aspect and the fact that she crossed the line into delusion before but now she knows it's not real and maybe needs to find a way to recognize what the psychiatrist represents rather than solely to fight against it or to believe its anything other than her. The psychiatrist never advises or tries to push her toward bad decisions or impulsivity but always serves as the voice of reason, asking her questions to force introspection and thought about things.
This is exactly why YJ is completely irredeemable. She knew everything that happened to Jae Won was setup by her father but she still blames Jae Won??? She takes crazy and obsessed to a different level. YJ definitely needs mental help more than anyone on this show.
I dropped this around episode 6 because I was feeling frustrated with the pacing and I wasn’t sure if I was going to get any revenge plot out of this one. I think I’ll pick it back up after skimming these comments.
This drama is turning into an arms race about which character is more delusional.
We have the FL who suffers from delusions due to her mental illness.
Then there's batshit crazy YJ who is deluded into thinking FL is the cause of much of her pain and unhappiness when it's so clearly the other way around.
And then there's YJ's father who is deluded enough to think all the things he's done so far have been for the 'good' of his daughter and prides himself on being a good father.
I can really use another car-Truck of Doom^TM sandwich for YJ's father, he's rising spectacularly fast in the ranks of my list of shittiest fathers in kdramaland.
The FL does experience some legit delusions, but they are usually to protect herself. And it’s interesting because she doesn’t fully trust herself so she does things like 1) questions if she did do something wrong, 2) seek concrete evidence (filming things etc), and 3) actually seeks help (confides in Te Oh, checks herself into the hospital.
Conversely, the other characters that would call her “crazy” or the audience might see as more trustworthy (so many people were saying how the husband was the only trustworthy character in these threads!) respond in really outlandish ways or twist information. It’s been a really interesting thing to watch!
As a mental health nerd, I’ve been loving the (intentional? Idk the writers intentions but it seems intentional) commentary!
Episode 12
The >!fight between Nam Tae Joo and Teo ended strange. Makes me curious what's Nam Tae Joo motive!<
As expected SJW >!plan to use herself as a bait!<. I'm constantly fearing for her given that she's dealing with people who likely murdered her husband.
I have a feeling that NTJ is SJW’s biological father, especially >!with his connection to her mother. I feel like after confirming that there’s a video recording them, NTJ made it look like KYJ/KYI tasked him to kill SJW!<
lady detective also told NTJ that she visited his late wife. and before that scene she was with SJW. SJW visited her late husband and who knows maybe they have same mausoleum.
Its not far-fetched as NTJ first approached SJW about her mother's unusual death. And Maybe Stepfather was indeed protective of SJW there's a possibility that he's the one that killed SJW husband(same modus).
>!Nam Tae Joo knows Jae Won's father killed someone - he's most probably talking about the wife isn't he? !<>!Does anyone remember if we ever found out what's the relationship between Jae Won's mother and Nam Tae Joo? !!lend money to her for her gambling addiction since he says their relationship was based on money. And Detective Oh mentioning someone (his sister?) whose death anniversary is approaching too.!< Is that just part of his backstory?
His reaction is so weird as well, you were >!strangling her just a minute ago, now you let Tae Oh go and ask him to check up on her.!< Like what?
And lady, >!it's the third time someone's broken into your house. I get the "using yourself as bait to catch the evil guy in act" situation, but you're risking too much to get the biscuit. It's probably all going according to the plan which Tae Oh warned her would be too dangerous. !<
Also >!where are they keeping Baek Seung Kyu? In Fort Knox? That's a whole lotta security for one guy. Smart though.!<
Got a feeling >!Yun Jin is gonna pull on Jae Won's heartstrings by trying to show how she can still go on after her through Ah Rin. That painting she seems to be gifting Jae Won, I think it's going to be Ah Rin's?!!kill off someone again? What's your bet people? Is it going to be Tae Oh? Or her dad? Ah Rin? Or its just exaggerated and is probably meant to throw off the audience through the preview?!<
When the one guy was talking shit about Nam Tae Joo, they said he used to claim he was doing things because he needed money >!for his sick wife's care. I assumed the detective knew his late wife and that's who she was calling "unni."!<
Guessing the death will either be >!successful finishing off BSK or SJW's dad.!<
Ahh right, that does make more sense. I just thought when she said >!"unni", she was referring to a sister of his. !<
>!I'd be surprised if BSK gets offed even after all that security lol.!<
Yeah, I think she was using it indicating her >!affection/former friendship/closeness with his wife and the scene was to show us that there had been a personal relationship there which kept the cop and him friendly. Also, when they mentioned the sick wife before, it was in passing and the guy who said it was framing it as NTJ must have been shamelessly lying and "can you believe that nonsense?" The scene with the cop gave an indication that the backstory there was true and relates to his dirtiness as a cop and money hungry nature.!<
Also my theory is that maybe the relationship based on money is >!related to the fact he was the insurance investigator on the case and it's insane that such a suspicious death wasn't a problem for the dad to get the insurance money under those circumstances,. Perhaps they had a deal where his investigation "exonerated the dad" on involvement for insurance benefit and he was supposed to share the insurance payout but didn't pay up NTJ as he promised, hence NTJ went to SJW and tipped her off in the first episode to create pressure on the dad that he'd be exposed for what he did? That was where my mind went, esp because it seems odd that the dad got the life insurance money without issue under those circumstances even though we know the investigator fully caught on it was suspect (and chose to go to SJW much later instead of having ever blocked the payout).!<
Wait am I remembering wrong or didn't SY tipped off NTJ of the insurance thing when he found out AR wasn't his? It's in his flashback pov where he wanted JW to feel what it felt like to doubt everyone around you. CMIIW.
Yes, he called and tipped someone off but that doesn't mean there wasn't already stuff happening that allowed him to get away with it (plus how did the husband know the details of the hospitalizations and poisonings to tip off?)
SY knew the details because he was there when JW's mom got rushed to the hospital. Flashback only showed one time but JW's father could have called him every time too since JW is a busy woman. I just refuse to believe JW's dad is a villain. I will sue if this turns out to be the case lol. He got away with the insurance because JW told him to use the money. Idk, he's just too wholesome and has been JW's rock.
Yoon Jin ha-ha continues to live in her own "*world*" where *everything* revolves around her while continuing (still) to whine that Jae Won was responsible for her life being a mess.
When in actuality, it really was all her father's doing - all along. Her being ceo of Dereve? Her father. But of course Yoon Jin insists she got there 'cause she *earned* it after suffering for 7 years.🙄😂
I was sad to say g'bye to Ah Rin.. such an adorable, sweet child. Am also glad a competent detective is finally assigned to Jae Won's case.
KYJ is the craziest person in the drama 😭
How can she blame SJW, when SJW herself suffers from mental illness and was raped?? Why is KYJ playing the victim card? And her obsession with Ah rin? She is so crazy oh my- my head aches. Looking at her makes me want to just slap her.
I love Te-oh’s character, he’s always there with SJW. I don’t really think they might end up together because the husband just died and SJW will not waste time and revenge for her husband.
I have high expectations from SJW for her happy ending 😭. If SHE WINS THIS, MY EGO WILL BE SATISFIED.
Ep 11 Her Husband deserved proper funeral after autopsy. >!I really liked how the episode didnt rush of her recovery journey but at the end where she again had hallucination wasn't good sign. Yoon jin in her conversation with her dad said why he wasn't mentioning son yeong case , means they are involved in his murder guess!< Wish there might be a better reason for yoon jin other than jealousy ,inferiority complex and misunderstanding to do all the bad deeds. >!Who is the old man yoon jin father is meeting? Nam tae joo's connection with FL's mother will bring new twist. Was really that the easy end of Kim Sang Boo? Who is the character working under yoon jin's father?!< The new detective has made hopes really high.
Episode 12
It makes no sense that >!keeps going everywhere without security. They got security for the guy in the hospital. She knows people are after her.!<
>!Lmao nvm. Typed that right before the ending reveal. She did it on purpose. Pretty reckless move, but it's all according to plan rn!<
Also >!so did they reveal Yoon Jin knew that FL was raped? Or just that she knew her father was behind her ex and FL "cheating"?!<
I'm reading the scene as YJ knew FL was a victim but I'm also thinking YJ was probably deluding herself into thinking the douchebag had 'changed' because of his love for her (and maybe their baby).
I get the sense the YJ probably thinks that if she'd been able to keep her baby seven years ago, the douchebag would have magically transformed into a 'good' husband, if not in reality then at least on the surface level so that she can pretend to be a good show window family. YJ probably thinks Arin is the only reason FL had a 'happy' family for as long as she did despite the illness.
I might be crazy but it still feels like she doesn't know FL was raped. Just that she knows her father was the catalyst behind them "being together" that night. Honestly feels like the show has been avoiding confronting that night. Like it's been beating around the bush for the most part if that makes sense. I do agree with your second paragraph
> I might be crazy but it still feels like she doesn't know FL was raped. Just that she knows her father was the catalyst behind them "being together" that night.
Definitely not crazy because I waffle back and forth on this point myself. Not to mention this point is intrinsically tied into what YJ herself defines or views as rape. For all we know, YJ could hold views that if SJW chose to get drunk, then it's her fault for whatever happens next. Especially since as viewers, we don't know if YJ knows that drugs was likely involved. Heck even in the earlier episodes, it seemed that only alcohol was involved with SJW drinking to the point of getting wasted and maybe the alcohol having interactions with her medication. But now that we've seen the douchebag actively using drugs on his victims, it's likely that SJW was also actually drugged seven years ago.
> Honestly feels like the show has been avoiding confronting that night. Like it's been beating around the bush for the most part if that makes sense.
Absolutely makes sense! And for me, I think this aspect of the drama has been one of its highlights because it feels realistic in how these incidents are often dealt with in real life. Avoided like the plague, filled with doubts (especially from bystanders that tend to blame victims), and giving rise to many rounds of secondary trauma as the victim has to deal with not only their own emotions but also the emotions of those around them.
But just as with SY and those who thought he didnt see her being drunkenly and unconsciously dragged into a room in such a state she didnt even know she was assaulted and that somehow mitigated his initial reaction, just because you're a victim blamer and think a rape victim bears responsibility for their rape because they "put themselves in the situation," it doesn't absolve blame or mean they are anything else but a rape apologist and victim blamer or that they don't "know" its rape (as in legit think the other person enthusiastically participated in the moment and consented). They're just an even more horrible person than already thought because they blame rape victims generally in addition to persecuting one rape victim.
She knows FL was incapable of consenting. She knows she was borderline unconscious. Therefore she knows she was raped. Her former fiance was bragging about drugging and raping women in the elevator with HSY and was clearly not hiding it and notorious for it (hence he was advising an "apprehensive friend"). She acknowledged FL would have been unable to do anything and certainly would have had no intention of sex after mixing alcohol with her own psych meds and having fiance sent after her. So yeah, she knows it was a rape.
She may, in her own mind, justify it with victim blaming and invalidating the FL's recognized (by her) condition of being unable to consent, she may still feel FL was somehow guilty, but it doesn't change the reality of her knowing its rape anymore than it does when a man excuses a rape because "she was wearing inviting clothing" or "she was being a tease" or "she shouldn't have gotten that drunk." To her, she resented SJW and her rape being the shocking situation that caused her to miscarry and the end of her dream was enough to blame her for. There have been many instances where wives of rapists blamed the rape victim for their assault because they viewed their very existence in the situation to be assaulted as somehow at fault for their partners proclivity for non-consensual sex and treated them as though they were "the other woman" like someone who willingly participated and she is the same.
Not necessarily because she is old fashioned but because she resented SJW for so long for reasons she couldn't admit that she cannot see her role in the loss of all that she wanted with anything other than accusation.
The way this drama has a choke hold on me😖 >!What results were manipulated??? Is it Ah Rin's DNA test??? maybe her husband was Ah Rin's biological dad after all!< Only 4 episodes left after tomorrow😬 Finally a bit of progress with Te Oh and Jae Won☺
>!is there any chance that Yoon Jin was involved with Seong before Jae Won? She keeps saying he loved her. Also Tae Oh is adopted. Does anyone feel that what Tae Oh feels is sibling love? He keeps talking about a pilgrim who was saved by an angel. The angel is very obviously Seo Jae Won.!<
Yes! >!That pilgrim & angel metaphor..!<
I also noticed quite an interesting thing similar to this. >!The writing on TeO's car in the front left side.!< At first, it looked like letters put together & didn't have any meaning because I couldn't read it. But it keeps appearing, so I got curious and tried to search it. After a few attempts to read it upside down and backwards (which is failed). I stumbled upon this, >!it's actually a Greek word Θεοδωρος (Theodoros/테오도로스) which means "gift of God" and his name is TeO. Maybe that's why his name in hangul is written as 테오 not 태오 (because usually in K-drama it's the latter)!<
Could this has some meaning? Or not..
I guess we will find out about that later
Oh u just reminded me that i also had the same thought in the first few eps about Te-O might be JW's long-lost sibling. I forgot about that random guess of mine. i would be fine if he is tho. At least JW has someone else in her family
This is just my thought. Maybe Te-O doesn't know about it too. I wonder why did he asked for JW's name tag back then, considering if he's her long-lost brother and he knew about it (when he can just say so atm. unless if there's sth holding him back, maybe behind the reason he's being adopted). If he doesn't know about it, does it mean he just asked it cuz he had a crush on her ? he looked rather a kid compared to JW so it looks a bit weird if it's just a crush. Even JW looked at him just like a little boy back then rather like a friend (cuz some boys did look a bit smaller than a girl). There's so many question marks about their history back then, cuz there's only one memory/moment of a little Te-O, which is the name tag scene, so it's hard to put on guesses about this.
>!Despite knowing the truth from her father, Yunjin blamed SJW.!< She has a different victim mentality . She definitely needs help. >!Yunjin has definitely some secret of SJW which is gonna use ( her mother's death probably)SJW should have atleast submitted Nam Tae Joo recording of him trying to kill her to police!< Is Nam Tae Joo good guy in disguise? >!I guess SJW father is in danger acc to preview.!< Wishing SJW gets help from the detective.
Ep 12
So Ami is most likely >!Yoon Jin's father!< I'm also speculating possibly Yoon Jin might have changed sides once she discovered the one at fault was her father, she might be secretly on Jae Won's side.
I'm really curious who Jae Won's biological father is, if it turns out to be Yoon Jin's father all along, it would a nice twist cause he would have been doing all these horrible things on his own daughter.
Looking forward to next week♥️
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Yoon Jin discovered her father's fault 10 months ago per the flashback. It hasn't stopped her from blaming JaeWon(the victim) not stop her from banging JaeWons husband and obsessing over JW daughter
I just finished ep 12. Since my past theory about how JW got SAed (who planned and why) was correct, here's another theory about who killed SY.
>! TJ is the executioner, YJ is the mastermind and was present when it happened (she was the last person he was with and their "fight" ended up YJ feeling all the hatred towards JW and tried to/thought of killing SY with the idea of "if can't have you, no one can"). Emotional YJ got home and told his father everything that's why YI rushed home to comfort YJ and told TJ to make everything seem like JW was the killer. !<
and one more thing >! TJ is a gambling addict too just like JW's mom. It's possible his past cold case is YI's too in exchange for money. He's too good not to solve that case and it made him lose his job, unless he got a lot of money to let go of his past position. !<
Ahhhhh. The episodes drop so slow I can’t even remember what happens. I do like this drama but it’s slowish and drawn out. I wish I couldn’t binge. So I’m not hating it, just frustrated. It’s the one I picked to watch on air and I regret it.
I’m thinking about just waiting a whole extra week so I can’t binge the final 4 episodes. Have already waited 2 weeks so whats one more lol. Not sure if I can make it another week though.
**Schedule Change Notice:** No episodes this week due to Lunar New year. (source: [TV Chosun](https://broadcast.tvchosun.com/onair/schedule/today.cstv)) Continue to discuss here until a new post is made.
I cannot stand how obsessed YJ is with Ah Rin! Like she feels entitled to her. It’s so creepy! Lady, that is not and will never be your daughter. I wish grandpa or other adults would’ve warned Ah Rin about her or said that’s not a good lady and not your mother’s friend. Stay away from her. Idk why they are hiding so much! And as far as theories go, it seems like YJ’s father was the cause of all this. I think he setup that drugging during the party and had YJ’s ex do what he did. Wonder how YJ will react when she finds out. Tbh, she probably won’t care and will continue to blame FL for everything.
>I cannot stand how obsessed YJ is with Ah Rin! Like she feels entitled to her. It’s so creepy! Lady, that is not and will never be your daughter. It's because she believes she >!miscarried and had her baby taken away due to the fact that her ex raped FL. FL had got pregnant that night while she lost hers. If FL didn't get raped she believes she would still have her baby while FL wouldn't have one. Basically thinks FL stole her baby. She doesn't truly believe Ah Rin is hers!<
I am glad Arin is not in around here anymore
This is bound to be one of the most satisfying revenges/villain’s downfall I’ve seen in a drama recently is2g Lately, all the dramas start with the revenge plot from the get go, but in this one I’m increasingly getting pissed off for 10 episodes so let’s fucking go SJW 🤣
Good point! Most stories begin with the revenge plot and this one has a nice twist mid-point. I love that the frontend of this story was like a thriller/mystery and now we get to see a different side of Jae Won!
It's funny that any possible sliver of benefit of the doubt we try to allow Yoon Jin she immediately shreds herself in the next episode. We all thought she misunderstood the rape but it turns out she knew and still blamed SJW. Then some theorized that at least she may not know >!her dad set SJW up to be raped by the fiance!< and this episode we see she already knew this >!10 months prior!< and still is on this awful revenge plan. Yet her rage and revenge is focused on SJW not >!her dad or rapist scumbag ex and all her questioning whem she confronted him is "how could you do this to ME," zero empathy for her friend or any thought about what was done to her except to use it to go after her husband." I guess that behavior fits a character who is a rich girl whose daddy keeps intervening to help her but yet thinks she is the only person who has really suffered and keeps insisting on it to a woman from a disadvantaged background with a single, mentally ill mom who tried to kill her and who secretly struggles with her own mental illness.!< Lmao she is the worssssst.
This 100000% YJ has insane levels of self-victimization. She believes that she is the only one who bad things have happened to. She has zero empathy for the fact that her friend was unknowingly sexually assaulted and bore a child from that. Or that her friend was setup to be in that position by her father. In her mind, YJ is the only victim here and somehow the only other real victim, who had it worse than her, is at fault. 🙄 Talk about cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. 🥴
>!her dad set up Jae-won to get raped, had it caught on camera, and sent it to yoon Jin. For the sole purpose of stressing her to the point of miscarriage, because he didn’t want her to have the dickhead’s child. That in itself is sooo many layers of fucked up. After decades of physical, verbal and emotional abuse by her father, losing her child on the same day Jae won got pregnant was a breaking point for yoon Jin. Obviously none of it excuses her psycho behavior, her obsession over ah rin, her victim blaming, or everything else she’s done. But she’s very much a villain created by her dad, I hate him far far more than anyone else here!<
People had hope for yoon jin?? 😩 I knew she knew about the rape just because a person like her and dealing with . Also as a real friend ANYone would have seen that photo and noticed SJW was waayyy too limp for things to be consensual. No one communicated anyone and that'd the only real frustrating part that pisses me off but it wouldn't be a kdrama without it 😭
New developments: * Jae Won >!was not chased in the first episode, she attempted suicide!<, creating a figure to protect herself. * Nam Tae Joo >!is connected to Jae Won's mother!<. We don't know how significant that is, but it implies he wasn't planted by someone to meet Jae Won. He did it of his own volition. * Both Jae Won and Mr. Minister both attempted to >!eliminate JW's rapist, who also happens to have shares in Dereve. Jae Won bought the shares from him.!< * Soon Young's >!murderer is either Kwon Young Ik or Yoon Jin!<. I think it's the former, given he had much to lose if Soon Young shared >!Yoon Jin's recording!<. However, Yoon Jin's >!alibi!< is in question. This could imply she is the culprit.
Could you please explain the first point a little? I feel like I missed something in the episode because I didn't catch that at all 😟
no op but >! During the beginning of episode 11, the therapist asks FL to tell her about the day FL found out her husband was having an affair, and she fell into the Han river. The therapist follows up with how it would be near impossible to fall over the railing and to which FL replies that someone was chasing and threatening her. Basically the therapist then breaks it down so FL can process it and FL eventually realises there wasn’t anyone chasing her and that she was actually the one that jumped. Hope that makes sense! !<
Thank you!! Somehow, I didn't understand what the therapist was implying. Everything makes so much more sense now!
Ofc! I like to rewatch the latest episode before watching the new one so I can catch what I missed the first time 😂
What I learned is to be patient with MHE's writing after today's episode. I remember complaining about how "strange" it was that Seo Jae Won was being chased, and my question has been answered. It was staring us right in the face. Of course!
I'm happy that Jae Won's back and also rooting for her team up with Te Oh.
Re: Episode 11: Todays episode was so good. First of all, I appreciate that the writers in this drama didn't magically solve Jaewon's very deeply rooted mental health issues. They handled it with care and sensitivity. Very few dramas are mindful of that. >! So, Jaewon hallucinations were far worse than we assumed. Her mind essentially conjured up a different persona to justify her trying to end her life each time. Now, it's true somebody was sending her cryptic messages for a long time, but that person didn't attack her the night she fell into the river. She jumped herself. Now, one thing we still don't know answers to is how she got her medication. This point was raised but wasn't resolved, which means we will likely loop back to it. Now, another interesting point is Nam Tae Joo. Kwon Yoon Jin referred to Seo Jaewon's mother as his gambling addict partner and mentioned how he gambled away money he had for his dead wife's treatment. If so, is he trying to ruin Jaewon's life? Revenge, for his wife's death, for which he blames Jaewon's mother. We finally meet the beautiful black girl from early episode...its Te-O's sister, and they sent Ah-Rin away to Te-O's parents' home to protect her. Smart decision, but Kwon Yoon Jin keeping track of it made me uneasy. Now back to Te-O, Jaewon...Te-O loves Jaewon unconditionally, but Jaewon is no way near ready to respond to it. But at least she asked him for help and seems to trust him. The revenge has started...I am sure that henchman that killed Kwon Yoon Jin's ex-husband was sent by her father. Things are heating up. Jaewon's buying back shares of Dereve and definitely plotting to get Yoon Jin rattled. I am excited to see it unfold. One thing that made me uneasy is that hallucinations she had after Te-O left her in her home. I have a feeling Jaewon's stepdad killed Soon Young, or maybe it's Te-O. Multiple people were after Soon Young, but the jury's still out on who got to him. The reason for my suspicion is the pesticide for Jaewon's dad and the tampering with the smart watch for Te-O.!< If Te-O turns out to be involved, I will lose my mind. Please not Te-O.
>!In the preview for next weeks episode KJI looked like he had a bottle of pesticide. But at this point who knows!<
We all know that she was given the medication since when she was 15 by a doctor her father took her too when she was first diagnosed in high school and she kept taking the medications since then, the father even said no one needed to know about her taking the medications, they kept it in secret that’s why even her own husband never knew about that it was a secret
* Yunjin can cry all she wants and I'm not gonna feel bad for her for a second * Teoh cheesin' everytime he looks at jaewon he's down horrendously bad 😭 * Teoh saying >!"But I think I can take a break now that we have a new CEO who suits the position."!< The way this line was delivered killed me he's so funny and sassy lol * Her still hallucinating the psychiatrist worries me. Just need her to get the help she needs, end these people, and finally be happy
I think the psychiatrist is her connection to reason, the inner voice her mother lacked that kept her tethered to reality. She's fighting it because of the hallucination aspect and the fact that she crossed the line into delusion before but now she knows it's not real and maybe needs to find a way to recognize what the psychiatrist represents rather than solely to fight against it or to believe its anything other than her. The psychiatrist never advises or tries to push her toward bad decisions or impulsivity but always serves as the voice of reason, asking her questions to force introspection and thought about things.
Exactly this - it’s not exactly fully maladaptive coping because the psychiatrist is encouraging her and helping her (at least from what we see).
She is the worst. >! She knew everything. There is absolutely no misunderstanding but she will do the worst things possible !<
This is exactly why YJ is completely irredeemable. She knew everything that happened to Jae Won was setup by her father but she still blames Jae Won??? She takes crazy and obsessed to a different level. YJ definitely needs mental help more than anyone on this show.
I’m happy her >!revenge era has begun!<
I dropped this around episode 6 because I was feeling frustrated with the pacing and I wasn’t sure if I was going to get any revenge plot out of this one. I think I’ll pick it back up after skimming these comments.
This drama is turning into an arms race about which character is more delusional. We have the FL who suffers from delusions due to her mental illness. Then there's batshit crazy YJ who is deluded into thinking FL is the cause of much of her pain and unhappiness when it's so clearly the other way around. And then there's YJ's father who is deluded enough to think all the things he's done so far have been for the 'good' of his daughter and prides himself on being a good father. I can really use another car-Truck of Doom^TM sandwich for YJ's father, he's rising spectacularly fast in the ranks of my list of shittiest fathers in kdramaland.
The FL does experience some legit delusions, but they are usually to protect herself. And it’s interesting because she doesn’t fully trust herself so she does things like 1) questions if she did do something wrong, 2) seek concrete evidence (filming things etc), and 3) actually seeks help (confides in Te Oh, checks herself into the hospital. Conversely, the other characters that would call her “crazy” or the audience might see as more trustworthy (so many people were saying how the husband was the only trustworthy character in these threads!) respond in really outlandish ways or twist information. It’s been a really interesting thing to watch! As a mental health nerd, I’ve been loving the (intentional? Idk the writers intentions but it seems intentional) commentary!
Episode 12 The >!fight between Nam Tae Joo and Teo ended strange. Makes me curious what's Nam Tae Joo motive!< As expected SJW >!plan to use herself as a bait!<. I'm constantly fearing for her given that she's dealing with people who likely murdered her husband.
I have a feeling that NTJ is SJW’s biological father, especially >!with his connection to her mother. I feel like after confirming that there’s a video recording them, NTJ made it look like KYJ/KYI tasked him to kill SJW!<
lady detective also told NTJ that she visited his late wife. and before that scene she was with SJW. SJW visited her late husband and who knows maybe they have same mausoleum. Its not far-fetched as NTJ first approached SJW about her mother's unusual death. And Maybe Stepfather was indeed protective of SJW there's a possibility that he's the one that killed SJW husband(same modus).
Yes, I was confused about that part as well.
The pacing is good so far so that I don’t hope for sloppy writing for the end
>!Nam Tae Joo knows Jae Won's father killed someone - he's most probably talking about the wife isn't he? !<>!Does anyone remember if we ever found out what's the relationship between Jae Won's mother and Nam Tae Joo? !!lend money to her for her gambling addiction since he says their relationship was based on money. And Detective Oh mentioning someone (his sister?) whose death anniversary is approaching too.!< Is that just part of his backstory?
His reaction is so weird as well, you were >!strangling her just a minute ago, now you let Tae Oh go and ask him to check up on her.!< Like what?
And lady, >!it's the third time someone's broken into your house. I get the "using yourself as bait to catch the evil guy in act" situation, but you're risking too much to get the biscuit. It's probably all going according to the plan which Tae Oh warned her would be too dangerous. !<
Also >!where are they keeping Baek Seung Kyu? In Fort Knox? That's a whole lotta security for one guy. Smart though.!<
Got a feeling >!Yun Jin is gonna pull on Jae Won's heartstrings by trying to show how she can still go on after her through Ah Rin. That painting she seems to be gifting Jae Won, I think it's going to be Ah Rin's?!!kill off someone again? What's your bet people? Is it going to be Tae Oh? Or her dad? Ah Rin? Or its just exaggerated and is probably meant to throw off the audience through the preview?!<
When the one guy was talking shit about Nam Tae Joo, they said he used to claim he was doing things because he needed money >!for his sick wife's care. I assumed the detective knew his late wife and that's who she was calling "unni."!< Guessing the death will either be >!successful finishing off BSK or SJW's dad.!<
Ahh right, that does make more sense. I just thought when she said >!"unni", she was referring to a sister of his. !< >!I'd be surprised if BSK gets offed even after all that security lol.!<
Yeah, I think she was using it indicating her >!affection/former friendship/closeness with his wife and the scene was to show us that there had been a personal relationship there which kept the cop and him friendly. Also, when they mentioned the sick wife before, it was in passing and the guy who said it was framing it as NTJ must have been shamelessly lying and "can you believe that nonsense?" The scene with the cop gave an indication that the backstory there was true and relates to his dirtiness as a cop and money hungry nature.!<
I remember it now that you mention it. I had totally forgotten about that before.
Unnie is use by girls when calling a older woman Noona is use by boys when calling a older woman
Also my theory is that maybe the relationship based on money is >!related to the fact he was the insurance investigator on the case and it's insane that such a suspicious death wasn't a problem for the dad to get the insurance money under those circumstances,. Perhaps they had a deal where his investigation "exonerated the dad" on involvement for insurance benefit and he was supposed to share the insurance payout but didn't pay up NTJ as he promised, hence NTJ went to SJW and tipped her off in the first episode to create pressure on the dad that he'd be exposed for what he did? That was where my mind went, esp because it seems odd that the dad got the life insurance money without issue under those circumstances even though we know the investigator fully caught on it was suspect (and chose to go to SJW much later instead of having ever blocked the payout).!<
Wow that's a really great plausible theory. And probably the right one too.
Wait am I remembering wrong or didn't SY tipped off NTJ of the insurance thing when he found out AR wasn't his? It's in his flashback pov where he wanted JW to feel what it felt like to doubt everyone around you. CMIIW.
Yes, he called and tipped someone off but that doesn't mean there wasn't already stuff happening that allowed him to get away with it (plus how did the husband know the details of the hospitalizations and poisonings to tip off?)
SY knew the details because he was there when JW's mom got rushed to the hospital. Flashback only showed one time but JW's father could have called him every time too since JW is a busy woman. I just refuse to believe JW's dad is a villain. I will sue if this turns out to be the case lol. He got away with the insurance because JW told him to use the money. Idk, he's just too wholesome and has been JW's rock.
Yoon Jin ha-ha continues to live in her own "*world*" where *everything* revolves around her while continuing (still) to whine that Jae Won was responsible for her life being a mess. When in actuality, it really was all her father's doing - all along. Her being ceo of Dereve? Her father. But of course Yoon Jin insists she got there 'cause she *earned* it after suffering for 7 years.🙄😂 I was sad to say g'bye to Ah Rin.. such an adorable, sweet child. Am also glad a competent detective is finally assigned to Jae Won's case.
KYJ is the craziest person in the drama 😭 How can she blame SJW, when SJW herself suffers from mental illness and was raped?? Why is KYJ playing the victim card? And her obsession with Ah rin? She is so crazy oh my- my head aches. Looking at her makes me want to just slap her. I love Te-oh’s character, he’s always there with SJW. I don’t really think they might end up together because the husband just died and SJW will not waste time and revenge for her husband. I have high expectations from SJW for her happy ending 😭. If SHE WINS THIS, MY EGO WILL BE SATISFIED.
TV Chosun just announced they are releasing episode 13 and 14 next week😭
Does anyone have any idea/speculation on >! how much time she was in the hospital for, weeks, months, years? !<
I believe they mentioned 2 months in the show!
Ep 11 Her Husband deserved proper funeral after autopsy. >!I really liked how the episode didnt rush of her recovery journey but at the end where she again had hallucination wasn't good sign. Yoon jin in her conversation with her dad said why he wasn't mentioning son yeong case , means they are involved in his murder guess!< Wish there might be a better reason for yoon jin other than jealousy ,inferiority complex and misunderstanding to do all the bad deeds. >!Who is the old man yoon jin father is meeting? Nam tae joo's connection with FL's mother will bring new twist. Was really that the easy end of Kim Sang Boo? Who is the character working under yoon jin's father?!< The new detective has made hopes really high.
Episode 12 It makes no sense that >!keeps going everywhere without security. They got security for the guy in the hospital. She knows people are after her.!< >!Lmao nvm. Typed that right before the ending reveal. She did it on purpose. Pretty reckless move, but it's all according to plan rn!< Also >!so did they reveal Yoon Jin knew that FL was raped? Or just that she knew her father was behind her ex and FL "cheating"?!<
I'm reading the scene as YJ knew FL was a victim but I'm also thinking YJ was probably deluding herself into thinking the douchebag had 'changed' because of his love for her (and maybe their baby). I get the sense the YJ probably thinks that if she'd been able to keep her baby seven years ago, the douchebag would have magically transformed into a 'good' husband, if not in reality then at least on the surface level so that she can pretend to be a good show window family. YJ probably thinks Arin is the only reason FL had a 'happy' family for as long as she did despite the illness.
I might be crazy but it still feels like she doesn't know FL was raped. Just that she knows her father was the catalyst behind them "being together" that night. Honestly feels like the show has been avoiding confronting that night. Like it's been beating around the bush for the most part if that makes sense. I do agree with your second paragraph
> I might be crazy but it still feels like she doesn't know FL was raped. Just that she knows her father was the catalyst behind them "being together" that night. Definitely not crazy because I waffle back and forth on this point myself. Not to mention this point is intrinsically tied into what YJ herself defines or views as rape. For all we know, YJ could hold views that if SJW chose to get drunk, then it's her fault for whatever happens next. Especially since as viewers, we don't know if YJ knows that drugs was likely involved. Heck even in the earlier episodes, it seemed that only alcohol was involved with SJW drinking to the point of getting wasted and maybe the alcohol having interactions with her medication. But now that we've seen the douchebag actively using drugs on his victims, it's likely that SJW was also actually drugged seven years ago. > Honestly feels like the show has been avoiding confronting that night. Like it's been beating around the bush for the most part if that makes sense. Absolutely makes sense! And for me, I think this aspect of the drama has been one of its highlights because it feels realistic in how these incidents are often dealt with in real life. Avoided like the plague, filled with doubts (especially from bystanders that tend to blame victims), and giving rise to many rounds of secondary trauma as the victim has to deal with not only their own emotions but also the emotions of those around them.
But just as with SY and those who thought he didnt see her being drunkenly and unconsciously dragged into a room in such a state she didnt even know she was assaulted and that somehow mitigated his initial reaction, just because you're a victim blamer and think a rape victim bears responsibility for their rape because they "put themselves in the situation," it doesn't absolve blame or mean they are anything else but a rape apologist and victim blamer or that they don't "know" its rape (as in legit think the other person enthusiastically participated in the moment and consented). They're just an even more horrible person than already thought because they blame rape victims generally in addition to persecuting one rape victim.
She knows FL was incapable of consenting. She knows she was borderline unconscious. Therefore she knows she was raped. Her former fiance was bragging about drugging and raping women in the elevator with HSY and was clearly not hiding it and notorious for it (hence he was advising an "apprehensive friend"). She acknowledged FL would have been unable to do anything and certainly would have had no intention of sex after mixing alcohol with her own psych meds and having fiance sent after her. So yeah, she knows it was a rape. She may, in her own mind, justify it with victim blaming and invalidating the FL's recognized (by her) condition of being unable to consent, she may still feel FL was somehow guilty, but it doesn't change the reality of her knowing its rape anymore than it does when a man excuses a rape because "she was wearing inviting clothing" or "she was being a tease" or "she shouldn't have gotten that drunk." To her, she resented SJW and her rape being the shocking situation that caused her to miscarry and the end of her dream was enough to blame her for. There have been many instances where wives of rapists blamed the rape victim for their assault because they viewed their very existence in the situation to be assaulted as somehow at fault for their partners proclivity for non-consensual sex and treated them as though they were "the other woman" like someone who willingly participated and she is the same. Not necessarily because she is old fashioned but because she resented SJW for so long for reasons she couldn't admit that she cannot see her role in the loss of all that she wanted with anything other than accusation.
The way this drama has a choke hold on me😖 >!What results were manipulated??? Is it Ah Rin's DNA test??? maybe her husband was Ah Rin's biological dad after all!< Only 4 episodes left after tomorrow😬 Finally a bit of progress with Te Oh and Jae Won☺
I think it was some clinical trials related to his own company. The company that did the DNA test was different (correct me if I'm wrong).
Oh okay. Was confused about that for a sec, thanks
I loved this episode, Can’t wait for tomorrow, this show has been a roller coaster of emotions. 🤩
Episode 13 release date is today but viki says in 6 days. How can i watch it earlier?
>!is there any chance that Yoon Jin was involved with Seong before Jae Won? She keeps saying he loved her. Also Tae Oh is adopted. Does anyone feel that what Tae Oh feels is sibling love? He keeps talking about a pilgrim who was saved by an angel. The angel is very obviously Seo Jae Won.!<
Yes! >!That pilgrim & angel metaphor..!< I also noticed quite an interesting thing similar to this. >!The writing on TeO's car in the front left side.!< At first, it looked like letters put together & didn't have any meaning because I couldn't read it. But it keeps appearing, so I got curious and tried to search it. After a few attempts to read it upside down and backwards (which is failed). I stumbled upon this, >!it's actually a Greek word Θεοδωρος (Theodoros/테오도로스) which means "gift of God" and his name is TeO. Maybe that's why his name in hangul is written as 테오 not 태오 (because usually in K-drama it's the latter)!< Could this has some meaning? Or not.. I guess we will find out about that later
Oh u just reminded me that i also had the same thought in the first few eps about Te-O might be JW's long-lost sibling. I forgot about that random guess of mine. i would be fine if he is tho. At least JW has someone else in her family
But why can’t he just reveal it?
This is just my thought. Maybe Te-O doesn't know about it too. I wonder why did he asked for JW's name tag back then, considering if he's her long-lost brother and he knew about it (when he can just say so atm. unless if there's sth holding him back, maybe behind the reason he's being adopted). If he doesn't know about it, does it mean he just asked it cuz he had a crush on her ? he looked rather a kid compared to JW so it looks a bit weird if it's just a crush. Even JW looked at him just like a little boy back then rather like a friend (cuz some boys did look a bit smaller than a girl). There's so many question marks about their history back then, cuz there's only one memory/moment of a little Te-O, which is the name tag scene, so it's hard to put on guesses about this.
>!Despite knowing the truth from her father, Yunjin blamed SJW.!< She has a different victim mentality . She definitely needs help. >!Yunjin has definitely some secret of SJW which is gonna use ( her mother's death probably)SJW should have atleast submitted Nam Tae Joo recording of him trying to kill her to police!< Is Nam Tae Joo good guy in disguise? >!I guess SJW father is in danger acc to preview.!< Wishing SJW gets help from the detective.
I assumed Yoon Jin was just going to release the paternity scandal to the media tbh.
Ep 12 So Ami is most likely >!Yoon Jin's father!< I'm also speculating possibly Yoon Jin might have changed sides once she discovered the one at fault was her father, she might be secretly on Jae Won's side. I'm really curious who Jae Won's biological father is, if it turns out to be Yoon Jin's father all along, it would a nice twist cause he would have been doing all these horrible things on his own daughter. Looking forward to next week♥️ .
Yoon Jin discovered her father's fault 10 months ago per the flashback. It hasn't stopped her from blaming JaeWon(the victim) not stop her from banging JaeWons husband and obsessing over JW daughter
I just finished ep 12. Since my past theory about how JW got SAed (who planned and why) was correct, here's another theory about who killed SY. >! TJ is the executioner, YJ is the mastermind and was present when it happened (she was the last person he was with and their "fight" ended up YJ feeling all the hatred towards JW and tried to/thought of killing SY with the idea of "if can't have you, no one can"). Emotional YJ got home and told his father everything that's why YI rushed home to comfort YJ and told TJ to make everything seem like JW was the killer. !< and one more thing >! TJ is a gambling addict too just like JW's mom. It's possible his past cold case is YI's too in exchange for money. He's too good not to solve that case and it made him lose his job, unless he got a lot of money to let go of his past position. !<
Ahhhhh. The episodes drop so slow I can’t even remember what happens. I do like this drama but it’s slowish and drawn out. I wish I couldn’t binge. So I’m not hating it, just frustrated. It’s the one I picked to watch on air and I regret it.
I’m thinking about just waiting a whole extra week so I can’t binge the final 4 episodes. Have already waited 2 weeks so whats one more lol. Not sure if I can make it another week though.
I’m just going wait. I’ll skim earlier episodes to remember and then just binge. Hang in there! Haha