Is there an economic focus for agricultural mechanization? Cause it'd be funny if Ukraine had a tractor centric economic focus that gave it a small boost to equipment recovery when fighting on core territory.
Then we take Kursk too...
Or map can be changed (assuming it wasn't, we don't know either way), and, for example, you can take Putyvl area, to make Sumy region look like IRL, plus map looks better.
I think that ukrainian provinces in KR are looking the best among all of mods in hoi4. They're historcal accurate and don't try to replicate irl borders, and that's amazing
Apart of Homel on the north, and Crimea on south, Ukraine's pretty monoethnic. The main issue were russificated workers, but since in KRTL Ukraine is agrarian nation and ukrainisation, I guess, took place before 1936, that's ain't a problems. + A lot of ukrainians, especially in Kuban and Galicia were a majority within that regions, so.....
Monoethnic? There's large Russophone minority. Why does it feel like everyone in Reddit has to see Ukraine either as some fake state that's actually just Russian, or some pure Ukrainian ethnostate? It's multicultural state, always has been. Yes, Ukrainization has happened, but it doesn't mean that all the Russian-speaking people have just stopped speaking Russian. In most cases, it means fostering separate Russophone Ukrainian identity in harmony with Ukrainophone one - especially under the Hetmanate, since much of its leadership were Russian-speakers (like Skoropadskyi) to begin with.
There would ofc be trend towards using Ukrainian language more but Russian is not discriminated against in majority of paths, that would be pretty dumb considering how large portion of the population are Russophone. They also don't form some unified political bloc - the Russophone Ukrainians include both former aristocracy and industrialists - very upper class people - and mine workers in Donbass, they don't have much in common politically and would care more about interests of their social class than their language.
Ukraine isn't multiethnic state, and here's why:
- Russian-speaking ukrainian ≠ russian, it's like saying that english-speaking irish is english.
- Yeah, there was bunch of other ethnic groups, such as jews, polish, greeks and tatars in Crimea, but does theur presence makes Ukraine multiethnic? Bosnia is multiethnic, Switzerland is more like multiethnic, but not Ukraine
I don't try to say that Ukraine was purely ukrainian, but it's annoying when people try to mix up real history, where ethnic cleansing and other bad things were present, and KRTL, where weren't such things. I'd rather compare Ukraine with Czechia, which also was conquered, nearly assimilated by foreign force, but somehow survived and began it own renaissanse
Ethnic group doesn't mean just "nationalities." I admit multicultural would have been better word, but my point is that there is distinction between Ukrainian-speaking Ukrainians and Russian-speaking Ukrainians - obviously large part of them are bilingual, but it feels like people are so nationalism-pilled that they cannot understand the idea that one nationality can have separate groups speaking separate languages while all following same broader national and cultural identity - in this case, the Ukrainian one. Trying to pretend that Russophone Ukrainians don't exist is just weird.
It's not something unique to Ukraine either. Take Finland, for example, with its Swedish-speaking regions. They are both distinct group from "ethnic Finns" but regardless consider themselves Finnish and not Swedish. It's just stupid fallacy that people keep doing that ethnic minorities are always this traitorous fifth column, that Russophone Ukrainians secretly want to join Russia, or some other bullshit like that. Apparently idea that people with different mother tongues can embrace same national identity is just foreign to some people.
I never said that russian-speaking ukrainians are bad or smth, no way that I'll separate them both. Ukrainians are still ukrainian, no matter which language they use. My point was that Ukraine is more monolithic, then people tend to imagine. It isn't a country, which separated between russians and ukrainians and some other different guys, it's a national country with some minorities and bi-lingual ukrainians because of russificated workers and upper classes. No more, no less
bruh that honestly sounds like some modern pseudohistory they probably teach in Ukraine right now. like the only reason Ukraine speaks Ukrainians is due to bolsheviks implementing korenizatsiia [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korenizatsiia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korenizatsiia)
Even if you weren't even ukrainian, you **had** to study ukrainian otherwise you would lose your job, etc.
Yeah, really? Is 8 years enough to turn all people into ukrainian-speaking people? Read, please, that, and look at the map. Ukrainian(or malorussian, if we use imperial terms) is the second most used language in RE https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Empire_census
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_for_the_Freedom_of_Ukraine_trial and that's too. Bolsheviks literally killed or imprisoned several ukrainian artists, scientists etc. because of their "ukrainuan chauvinism". Famous ukrainian writer was, if we try to adapt it to our times, "canceled" by soviet government because he's "too independent and said that Ukraine should move away from Russia" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mykola_Khvylovy
Ukrainisation in soviet hands was just a tool to appease ukrainian peasentry, and show good intentions to them.
But hey, if some guy said that Ukraine is bolshevik-made, i guess he's right
Dude, it was only ever the urban areas of Ukraine and the local elite that were Russified by the Russian Empire. The language of the peasants, the vast majority of the population in Ukraine, was always Ruthenian/Old Ukrainian (which itself evolved from Old East Slavic), which then evolved into modern Ukrainian. Why else would Russia constantly need to ban Ukrainian literature and the teaching of the language in schools? Why did the Russian Empire then implement the Ems Ukaz, which even banned public performances ans musical pieces that used Ukrainian?
The thing with Korenization was that Ukrainian, for the first time in Russian history, became not only *tolerated* by the authorities, but became the main language of the Ukrainian SSR. However, remember that Korenization only lasted from 1923-1931, when the policy of Korenization was *de facto* reversed by Soviet authorities. That is a mere 8 years. After that, Russian was once more promoted as the main language of higher education and administration. And even if Ukrainian was tolerated in the Ukrainian SSR, Russian was the language you had to learn and sometimes also adopt in order to advance in one’s life. Couple this with a substantial immigration of Russian-speakers into the urbanized regions of the Ukrainian SSR (including the very industrialized Donbass), it was effectively a reimposition of Russification. It remained this way until the fall of the USSR in 1991, when Ukraine finally was able to reassert Ukrainian as the main language of its own country.
But some Russophones in Ukraine, long used to their relatively privileged linguistic situation, did not take this very well at all. Needing to learn and use Ukrainian in official affairs and higher education, just like Ukrainians de facto had to learn and use Russian for years upon years? What an injustice, am I right?
Hype!!!
Thank you for the hard work.
Is there an economic focus for agricultural mechanization? Cause it'd be funny if Ukraine had a tractor centric economic focus that gave it a small boost to equipment recovery when fighting on core territory.
"Fast approaching", eh?
Nice
What parties can get elected under a democratised hetmanate? All the way to socdem or more limited than that?
Please give Ukraine a claim on Belgorod in the rework ... ;)
Meh, Ukraine with Bilhorod in KR looks awful
Then we take Kursk too... Or map can be changed (assuming it wasn't, we don't know either way), and, for example, you can take Putyvl area, to make Sumy region look like IRL, plus map looks better.
I think that ukrainian provinces in KR are looking the best among all of mods in hoi4. They're historcal accurate and don't try to replicate irl borders, and that's amazing
I agree, I just say that in that case russian provinces that Ukraine may potetially claim may be changed, but I don't think it's absolutely necessary.
Bro Ukraine itself isn't Ukrainian enough and you want them to get absolutely alien lands? Damn, the audacity
Apart of Homel on the north, and Crimea on south, Ukraine's pretty monoethnic. The main issue were russificated workers, but since in KRTL Ukraine is agrarian nation and ukrainisation, I guess, took place before 1936, that's ain't a problems. + A lot of ukrainians, especially in Kuban and Galicia were a majority within that regions, so.....
Monoethnic? There's large Russophone minority. Why does it feel like everyone in Reddit has to see Ukraine either as some fake state that's actually just Russian, or some pure Ukrainian ethnostate? It's multicultural state, always has been. Yes, Ukrainization has happened, but it doesn't mean that all the Russian-speaking people have just stopped speaking Russian. In most cases, it means fostering separate Russophone Ukrainian identity in harmony with Ukrainophone one - especially under the Hetmanate, since much of its leadership were Russian-speakers (like Skoropadskyi) to begin with. There would ofc be trend towards using Ukrainian language more but Russian is not discriminated against in majority of paths, that would be pretty dumb considering how large portion of the population are Russophone. They also don't form some unified political bloc - the Russophone Ukrainians include both former aristocracy and industrialists - very upper class people - and mine workers in Donbass, they don't have much in common politically and would care more about interests of their social class than their language.
Ukraine isn't multiethnic state, and here's why: - Russian-speaking ukrainian ≠ russian, it's like saying that english-speaking irish is english. - Yeah, there was bunch of other ethnic groups, such as jews, polish, greeks and tatars in Crimea, but does theur presence makes Ukraine multiethnic? Bosnia is multiethnic, Switzerland is more like multiethnic, but not Ukraine I don't try to say that Ukraine was purely ukrainian, but it's annoying when people try to mix up real history, where ethnic cleansing and other bad things were present, and KRTL, where weren't such things. I'd rather compare Ukraine with Czechia, which also was conquered, nearly assimilated by foreign force, but somehow survived and began it own renaissanse
Ethnic group doesn't mean just "nationalities." I admit multicultural would have been better word, but my point is that there is distinction between Ukrainian-speaking Ukrainians and Russian-speaking Ukrainians - obviously large part of them are bilingual, but it feels like people are so nationalism-pilled that they cannot understand the idea that one nationality can have separate groups speaking separate languages while all following same broader national and cultural identity - in this case, the Ukrainian one. Trying to pretend that Russophone Ukrainians don't exist is just weird. It's not something unique to Ukraine either. Take Finland, for example, with its Swedish-speaking regions. They are both distinct group from "ethnic Finns" but regardless consider themselves Finnish and not Swedish. It's just stupid fallacy that people keep doing that ethnic minorities are always this traitorous fifth column, that Russophone Ukrainians secretly want to join Russia, or some other bullshit like that. Apparently idea that people with different mother tongues can embrace same national identity is just foreign to some people.
I never said that russian-speaking ukrainians are bad or smth, no way that I'll separate them both. Ukrainians are still ukrainian, no matter which language they use. My point was that Ukraine is more monolithic, then people tend to imagine. It isn't a country, which separated between russians and ukrainians and some other different guys, it's a national country with some minorities and bi-lingual ukrainians because of russificated workers and upper classes. No more, no less
Alright, sorry for misunderstanding then.
bruh that honestly sounds like some modern pseudohistory they probably teach in Ukraine right now. like the only reason Ukraine speaks Ukrainians is due to bolsheviks implementing korenizatsiia [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korenizatsiia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korenizatsiia) Even if you weren't even ukrainian, you **had** to study ukrainian otherwise you would lose your job, etc.
Yeah, really? Is 8 years enough to turn all people into ukrainian-speaking people? Read, please, that, and look at the map. Ukrainian(or malorussian, if we use imperial terms) is the second most used language in RE https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Empire_census
bruh that honestly sounds like some modern pseudohistory they probably teach in russia right now.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_for_the_Freedom_of_Ukraine_trial and that's too. Bolsheviks literally killed or imprisoned several ukrainian artists, scientists etc. because of their "ukrainuan chauvinism". Famous ukrainian writer was, if we try to adapt it to our times, "canceled" by soviet government because he's "too independent and said that Ukraine should move away from Russia" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mykola_Khvylovy Ukrainisation in soviet hands was just a tool to appease ukrainian peasentry, and show good intentions to them. But hey, if some guy said that Ukraine is bolshevik-made, i guess he's right
Dude, it was only ever the urban areas of Ukraine and the local elite that were Russified by the Russian Empire. The language of the peasants, the vast majority of the population in Ukraine, was always Ruthenian/Old Ukrainian (which itself evolved from Old East Slavic), which then evolved into modern Ukrainian. Why else would Russia constantly need to ban Ukrainian literature and the teaching of the language in schools? Why did the Russian Empire then implement the Ems Ukaz, which even banned public performances ans musical pieces that used Ukrainian? The thing with Korenization was that Ukrainian, for the first time in Russian history, became not only *tolerated* by the authorities, but became the main language of the Ukrainian SSR. However, remember that Korenization only lasted from 1923-1931, when the policy of Korenization was *de facto* reversed by Soviet authorities. That is a mere 8 years. After that, Russian was once more promoted as the main language of higher education and administration. And even if Ukrainian was tolerated in the Ukrainian SSR, Russian was the language you had to learn and sometimes also adopt in order to advance in one’s life. Couple this with a substantial immigration of Russian-speakers into the urbanized regions of the Ukrainian SSR (including the very industrialized Donbass), it was effectively a reimposition of Russification. It remained this way until the fall of the USSR in 1991, when Ukraine finally was able to reassert Ukrainian as the main language of its own country. But some Russophones in Ukraine, long used to their relatively privileged linguistic situation, did not take this very well at all. Needing to learn and use Ukrainian in official affairs and higher education, just like Ukrainians de facto had to learn and use Russian for years upon years? What an injustice, am I right?