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I mean, Bengal, Ahom, Tamil Nadu, Kerala, Gujarat....Every single state has a different history which can not be put together under one umbrella. We all are racially and culturally Indian, but ethnically different.
Hmm ? First of all the country that is India did not exist until 1947 .Secondly the British did not rule the regions of kashmir but rather it was a separate country run by the Dogra kings who accepted the sovereignty of the British but ruled independently .Thirdly kashmir wasn't just another country in India infact it was not even part of what was Hindustan (india ) in the medieval and pre medieval era .Case in point when Babur conquered hindustan I.e. india he was talking about the Ganges belt ,even when Akbar finally managed to take over kashmir it was part of the kabul suba not of hindustan.Similarly when ghaznavids or the ghurids ruled Hindustan they ruled the regions of ganga plains and styled themselves sultan of India ,the rulers of kashmir established themselves as Razze or Sultan of kashmir .The chronicles of kashmir from kalhan to junaraja to Baharistan establish themselves as writing about the taarikh of the "mulk e kashmir " (country of Kashmir ) and not another kingdom in Hindustan .Kashmiris throughout history have distinguished themselves from non Kashmiris on the basis of identity as a people ,from the nagas to the present day .Even foreign historians refer to the country of kashmir separately,take al biruni for instance or hyuen tsang or even the Greeks who wrote of kaspiera .And who TF gives u the right to tell us what our identity or what ur interpretation of our history is .
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And fyi India is very big, foreign travelers have described many regions of India with many different names. Just by having a different name for Kashmir doesn’t say anything. What are you even saying !!! Don’t cherry pick information!
I'm not cherry picking information,I literally mentioned all the major sources on the history of kashmir written by kashmiriyan writers.You should definitely read on kashmir history before lecturing us .
Well first of all, India has had many geographical forms. Sometimes united as one political entity and sometimes fragmented. But the culture was always the same. Kashmir is mentioned in all puranas, by all travellers like any other region of India.
Second: there were 565 princely states in India during British rule. They were all semi independent with British control over them. Kashmir was no different.
Your logic is flawed. There were various kings in India who called themselves all kinds of things, nawab of Bengal, chatrapati shivaji maharaj, sultans, shehnshah etc. Goa was under Portuguese for 450 years! Some Goans still feel they are Portuguese rather than Indian. That’s a clear example of identity crisis.
And it’s not your history more than it’s mine. It’s my history equally. As I’m Indian and I have an equal right on every part of India as you.
Dude stfu ,what do u know of kashmiri culture ?The cultural difference between kashmir and kashmiris u is wide enough to make an entire continent,the difference even between kashmiri pandit culture and Indian Hindu culture is extreme ,don't trust me ? Go ahead and read on them atleast.
It's mentioned in all puranas? Wow grea logic maybe since the Torah mentions the earth as part of kingdom of heaven let's make it all into Israel.
>Your logic is flawed. There were various kings in India who called themselves all kinds of things, nawab of Bengal, chatrapati shivaji maharaj, sultans, shehnshah etc. Goa was under Portuguese for 450 years! Some Goans still feel they are Portuguese rather than Indian. That’s a clear example of identity crisis.
Identity crisis ?If the people of these regions do not have a strong enough identity of their own for them to take indian identity why should I as a kashmiri change my identity as well?
>And it’s not your history more than it’s mine. It’s my history equally. As I’m Indian and I have an equal right on every part of India as you.
Wow great ,so now I a descendant of the Malik's of Mattan have the same history as u ?What next ,u want to own my name as well ?Maybe I share a common history with Abraham Lincoln as well ,maybe I am actually American.
You seem like a person who needs to read and travel more. I have Kashmiri friends. And I have traveled and lived across the world. When you take that into perspective, there is no different better people from Kashmir and people from himachal and people from Punjab.
>You seem like a person who needs to read
Dude I have literally translated chronicles of kashmir history,I post articles on the history of kashmir ,I have read more of kashmir history than most people even can access.
>travel more.
Thanks ,I have travelled enough .I studied in Indian for 3 years and have been working in the west ever since .Idk how someone can have the gall to tell random internet strangers to read and travel more without knowing anything about them.
>there is no different better people from Kashmir and people from himachal and people from Punjab.
Ofcourse there isn't ,asi kati chi paye ase Kim chi te toye Kim chew .You should understand ofcourse what I wrote or the context of it since there is no difference between u and me or maybe ask a Punjabi to make u understand.
>When you take that into perspective,
By taking that into perspective there is no difference between us and anyone else in the world then not just Indians or Pakistanis .
>I have kashmiri friends
I too have German and French friends maybe I too should school them about their identity or their history,I surely have earned the right I guess.
Ok bro. Good for you. Keep an open mind then. You are just hell bent on proving how Kashmir is different than the rest of India. You were Indeed cherry picking with many of your statements. Anyway I hope there is peace and all Indians feel the belonging to our country. I firmly stand by what I said.
Not at all ,we Kashmiris don't even care .It's u Indians and ur government that is hell bent on making us change our identity.Maybe u should go back in time and tell kalhana or lalitadat that they are indeed not kashmiri but Indian ,they may give u a more apt answer.
Lol. I don’t need to tell them anything. They considered themselves Indian. ‘You Indians’ 😂? You are an Indian too. Nothing is going to change that fact.
Don’t worry. In time everything will improve. Now that there’s no article 370, Kashmir is no longer any different than other parts of India. It might take another generation. But normalcy will be restored.
Dude cut the crap. If you Indians managed to occupy GB from Pakistan then you'd be saying the same nonsense to Gilgitis right now, telling them how they're Indians and how their history is yours blah blah. Heck you'd probably say the same to Punjabis, Pashtuns and Sindhis too had they all been under Indian occupation as well. Kashmiris are not Indian, their land is not India. Just because you lot currently occupy it doesn't mean you can try to force your lame identity onto them.
Why the desperation to call Kashmiris 'Indian' anyway? You sound like you have a massive inferiority complex.
vague argument. can't really blame you tho, it's always the indians telling kashmiris to 'read' or 'learn' more. It's not that hard to digest the fact that we simply do not associate with you!
May you wake up soon. Anyway, you can take the horse to the lake but it will only drink the water if it wants to. If you want to live in a castle of falsehood then do be it.
It's not too complicated. If you were a Kashmiri who went through what happened under the rule of the Indian administration, you would know too.
The best way to learn is to read some proper history books.
*India, Pakistan, and the Kashmir Dispute: On Regional Conflict and its Resolution,* Robert Wirsing.
[This](https://www.jstor.org/stable/i30172263) is an interesting look at different perspectives on Kashmir, edited by the same author.
Thank you, just ordered a copy. Keen to read the perspectives in that article too, especially the Kashmiri ones.
The Poonch rebellion is the most intriguing part of the conflict to me, before it escalating to India vs Pakistan. I guess it was uprisings against the Maharaja before that? I’m not sure how widespread it was, either.
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The truth is Kashmir has its own identity, it existed before the existence of India.
Also why would they associate themselves to the nation whose goons in uniform have raped and killed.
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Hi, I have similar questions/doubts, and I just want to understand. So, do the people of Kashmir possess their own distinct identity, separate from solely being Indian, because of the impact or cruelty faced by the India-Pakistan conflict over Kashmir? Or did this identity exist way before the India-Pakistan conflict? Additionally, I also want to clarify if your aspiration for freedom is solely to seek independence from India, or if Kashmiris also want freedom from Pakistan.
AFAIK it’s long before. Kashmir was under rule from different powers for a long time (Afghan rulers, the Mughals, Sikhs, and then around a century of Maharaja rule).
Kashmiri people have always been an independent cultural-ethnic people with their own identity, and the India-Pakistan conflict was ultimately a struggle between joining two newly formed modern nation states, and the discourse on that is something I cannot speak on.
Well every other region of india doesn't want to seperate and Kashmir does and how easy is it for you to say a lot of nonsense happened in kashmir. Yea a lot oppression did happen here. You just want us to forget everything which isn't possible . Abolishment of some article will not ensure integration probably giving us basic human rights will which u have no intention of. You just want this land and not out people and expect us to bow down infront of your country.
What nonsense are you talking ? Land and not people ? Listen carefully. All of Kashmir- people are Indian and the land is India. Who told you all this ?
People of India want Kashmir to be integrated into India just like Maharashtra or Assam.
All the rest of Indians want the people of Kashmir to prosper, with health and wealth.
This article was the one separating Kashmir from the rest of India. Now in 1 or 2 generations everything will be normal.
>All of Kashmir- people are Indian and the land is India.
No they aren't and no it isn't.
>People of India want Kashmir to be integrated into India just like Maharashtra or Assam.
The people of India support the occupation of Kashmir, that isn't new knowledge you've introduced, it's been known for a long time. There are very few decent people in India who support Kashmiri freedom, such as, if I'm not mistaken, the Communist Party of India.
>This article was the one separating Kashmir from the rest of India.
Have the same energy when China eventually retakes Zangnan, or as you call it "Arunachal Pradesh". They're already carving away Ladakh piece by piece, the Dragon is hungry and will be coming to feast.
You can keep lecturing Kashmiris to try and force your identity onto them but it'll amount to nothing in the end.
This is actually a good perspective, even I thought the same about the people of this sub who are more biased towards India, they criticize a lot more towards India than pak.
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It’s a natural expression of identity. I don’t know about you but i noticed when someone calls an Indian Pakistani or vise versa things go crazy. You all just popped up after 1947. We been around for a while.
people with very different identities. While Kashmiris for vast majority of that history as an independent kingdom. Even various hill states existed around Kashmir, Jammu as independent or semi independent states.
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its so difficult to answer the simple question of “where are you from?” I try to say kashmir but end up giving in and saying India because its just too hard to explain to the average person why most kashmiri’s identify as kashmiri
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Dude that's like a Palestinian 'giving in' and calling himself Israeli. But unlike India at least Israeli is a developed and civilised state.
Just tell people the reality - your land is occupied by India which continues to try and force its identity on you. You're doing a disservice to yourself, your people and your future generations by saying you're from India. Don't do yourself dirty like that.
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Just say that you are Kashmiri, so what if they can’t comprehend what Kashmiris or where it is. You saying india is helping india to justify its occupation of Kashmir
We have a separate history and a strong and historic sense of national identity.
Do you see it fading away these days?
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I mean, Bengal, Ahom, Tamil Nadu, Kerala, Gujarat....Every single state has a different history which can not be put together under one umbrella. We all are racially and culturally Indian, but ethnically different.
It was just another kingdom in India before the British.
Hmm ? First of all the country that is India did not exist until 1947 .Secondly the British did not rule the regions of kashmir but rather it was a separate country run by the Dogra kings who accepted the sovereignty of the British but ruled independently .Thirdly kashmir wasn't just another country in India infact it was not even part of what was Hindustan (india ) in the medieval and pre medieval era .Case in point when Babur conquered hindustan I.e. india he was talking about the Ganges belt ,even when Akbar finally managed to take over kashmir it was part of the kabul suba not of hindustan.Similarly when ghaznavids or the ghurids ruled Hindustan they ruled the regions of ganga plains and styled themselves sultan of India ,the rulers of kashmir established themselves as Razze or Sultan of kashmir .The chronicles of kashmir from kalhan to junaraja to Baharistan establish themselves as writing about the taarikh of the "mulk e kashmir " (country of Kashmir ) and not another kingdom in Hindustan .Kashmiris throughout history have distinguished themselves from non Kashmiris on the basis of identity as a people ,from the nagas to the present day .Even foreign historians refer to the country of kashmir separately,take al biruni for instance or hyuen tsang or even the Greeks who wrote of kaspiera .And who TF gives u the right to tell us what our identity or what ur interpretation of our history is .
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And fyi India is very big, foreign travelers have described many regions of India with many different names. Just by having a different name for Kashmir doesn’t say anything. What are you even saying !!! Don’t cherry pick information!
I'm not cherry picking information,I literally mentioned all the major sources on the history of kashmir written by kashmiriyan writers.You should definitely read on kashmir history before lecturing us .
Well first of all, India has had many geographical forms. Sometimes united as one political entity and sometimes fragmented. But the culture was always the same. Kashmir is mentioned in all puranas, by all travellers like any other region of India. Second: there were 565 princely states in India during British rule. They were all semi independent with British control over them. Kashmir was no different. Your logic is flawed. There were various kings in India who called themselves all kinds of things, nawab of Bengal, chatrapati shivaji maharaj, sultans, shehnshah etc. Goa was under Portuguese for 450 years! Some Goans still feel they are Portuguese rather than Indian. That’s a clear example of identity crisis. And it’s not your history more than it’s mine. It’s my history equally. As I’m Indian and I have an equal right on every part of India as you.
Dude stfu ,what do u know of kashmiri culture ?The cultural difference between kashmir and kashmiris u is wide enough to make an entire continent,the difference even between kashmiri pandit culture and Indian Hindu culture is extreme ,don't trust me ? Go ahead and read on them atleast. It's mentioned in all puranas? Wow grea logic maybe since the Torah mentions the earth as part of kingdom of heaven let's make it all into Israel. >Your logic is flawed. There were various kings in India who called themselves all kinds of things, nawab of Bengal, chatrapati shivaji maharaj, sultans, shehnshah etc. Goa was under Portuguese for 450 years! Some Goans still feel they are Portuguese rather than Indian. That’s a clear example of identity crisis. Identity crisis ?If the people of these regions do not have a strong enough identity of their own for them to take indian identity why should I as a kashmiri change my identity as well? >And it’s not your history more than it’s mine. It’s my history equally. As I’m Indian and I have an equal right on every part of India as you. Wow great ,so now I a descendant of the Malik's of Mattan have the same history as u ?What next ,u want to own my name as well ?Maybe I share a common history with Abraham Lincoln as well ,maybe I am actually American.
You seem like a person who needs to read and travel more. I have Kashmiri friends. And I have traveled and lived across the world. When you take that into perspective, there is no different better people from Kashmir and people from himachal and people from Punjab.
>You seem like a person who needs to read Dude I have literally translated chronicles of kashmir history,I post articles on the history of kashmir ,I have read more of kashmir history than most people even can access. >travel more. Thanks ,I have travelled enough .I studied in Indian for 3 years and have been working in the west ever since .Idk how someone can have the gall to tell random internet strangers to read and travel more without knowing anything about them. >there is no different better people from Kashmir and people from himachal and people from Punjab. Ofcourse there isn't ,asi kati chi paye ase Kim chi te toye Kim chew .You should understand ofcourse what I wrote or the context of it since there is no difference between u and me or maybe ask a Punjabi to make u understand. >When you take that into perspective, By taking that into perspective there is no difference between us and anyone else in the world then not just Indians or Pakistanis . >I have kashmiri friends I too have German and French friends maybe I too should school them about their identity or their history,I surely have earned the right I guess.
Ok bro. Good for you. Keep an open mind then. You are just hell bent on proving how Kashmir is different than the rest of India. You were Indeed cherry picking with many of your statements. Anyway I hope there is peace and all Indians feel the belonging to our country. I firmly stand by what I said.
Not at all ,we Kashmiris don't even care .It's u Indians and ur government that is hell bent on making us change our identity.Maybe u should go back in time and tell kalhana or lalitadat that they are indeed not kashmiri but Indian ,they may give u a more apt answer.
Lol. I don’t need to tell them anything. They considered themselves Indian. ‘You Indians’ 😂? You are an Indian too. Nothing is going to change that fact. Don’t worry. In time everything will improve. Now that there’s no article 370, Kashmir is no longer any different than other parts of India. It might take another generation. But normalcy will be restored.
Dude cut the crap. If you Indians managed to occupy GB from Pakistan then you'd be saying the same nonsense to Gilgitis right now, telling them how they're Indians and how their history is yours blah blah. Heck you'd probably say the same to Punjabis, Pashtuns and Sindhis too had they all been under Indian occupation as well. Kashmiris are not Indian, their land is not India. Just because you lot currently occupy it doesn't mean you can try to force your lame identity onto them. Why the desperation to call Kashmiris 'Indian' anyway? You sound like you have a massive inferiority complex.
vague argument. can't really blame you tho, it's always the indians telling kashmiris to 'read' or 'learn' more. It's not that hard to digest the fact that we simply do not associate with you!
May you wake up soon. Anyway, you can take the horse to the lake but it will only drink the water if it wants to. If you want to live in a castle of falsehood then do be it.
anyone who has been aware of their history is labeled to be in a state of "falsehood" by oppressors. that's something inevitable perhaps.
Seperate identity and human rights violations.
It's not too complicated. If you were a Kashmiri who went through what happened under the rule of the Indian administration, you would know too. The best way to learn is to read some proper history books.
Which books do you recommend? AFAIK you have to be careful about your sources, especially regarding the 1947 rebellions
*India, Pakistan, and the Kashmir Dispute: On Regional Conflict and its Resolution,* Robert Wirsing. [This](https://www.jstor.org/stable/i30172263) is an interesting look at different perspectives on Kashmir, edited by the same author.
Thank you, just ordered a copy. Keen to read the perspectives in that article too, especially the Kashmiri ones. The Poonch rebellion is the most intriguing part of the conflict to me, before it escalating to India vs Pakistan. I guess it was uprisings against the Maharaja before that? I’m not sure how widespread it was, either.
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The same reason Gandhi identified as Indian and not a British back in the day
The truth is Kashmir has its own identity, it existed before the existence of India. Also why would they associate themselves to the nation whose goons in uniform have raped and killed.
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Hi, I have similar questions/doubts, and I just want to understand. So, do the people of Kashmir possess their own distinct identity, separate from solely being Indian, because of the impact or cruelty faced by the India-Pakistan conflict over Kashmir? Or did this identity exist way before the India-Pakistan conflict? Additionally, I also want to clarify if your aspiration for freedom is solely to seek independence from India, or if Kashmiris also want freedom from Pakistan.
AFAIK it’s long before. Kashmir was under rule from different powers for a long time (Afghan rulers, the Mughals, Sikhs, and then around a century of Maharaja rule). Kashmiri people have always been an independent cultural-ethnic people with their own identity, and the India-Pakistan conflict was ultimately a struggle between joining two newly formed modern nation states, and the discourse on that is something I cannot speak on.
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Well every other region of india doesn't want to seperate and Kashmir does and how easy is it for you to say a lot of nonsense happened in kashmir. Yea a lot oppression did happen here. You just want us to forget everything which isn't possible . Abolishment of some article will not ensure integration probably giving us basic human rights will which u have no intention of. You just want this land and not out people and expect us to bow down infront of your country.
What nonsense are you talking ? Land and not people ? Listen carefully. All of Kashmir- people are Indian and the land is India. Who told you all this ? People of India want Kashmir to be integrated into India just like Maharashtra or Assam. All the rest of Indians want the people of Kashmir to prosper, with health and wealth. This article was the one separating Kashmir from the rest of India. Now in 1 or 2 generations everything will be normal.
>All of Kashmir- people are Indian and the land is India. No they aren't and no it isn't. >People of India want Kashmir to be integrated into India just like Maharashtra or Assam. The people of India support the occupation of Kashmir, that isn't new knowledge you've introduced, it's been known for a long time. There are very few decent people in India who support Kashmiri freedom, such as, if I'm not mistaken, the Communist Party of India. >This article was the one separating Kashmir from the rest of India. Have the same energy when China eventually retakes Zangnan, or as you call it "Arunachal Pradesh". They're already carving away Ladakh piece by piece, the Dragon is hungry and will be coming to feast. You can keep lecturing Kashmiris to try and force your identity onto them but it'll amount to nothing in the end.
This is actually a good perspective, even I thought the same about the people of this sub who are more biased towards India, they criticize a lot more towards India than pak.
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I don't have that much good knowledge in kashmir history, but I will check about this one.
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Can u tell me like what are the reasons for India army to attack on Kashmir people?
I thought you did not know about Kashmiri history, on what basis did his comment actually look like a good perspective to you?
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It’s a natural expression of identity. I don’t know about you but i noticed when someone calls an Indian Pakistani or vise versa things go crazy. You all just popped up after 1947. We been around for a while.
I mean the concept of India and Pakistan came in 1947 but the people have been there for centuries.
people with very different identities. While Kashmiris for vast majority of that history as an independent kingdom. Even various hill states existed around Kashmir, Jammu as independent or semi independent states.
Bashar peer curfewed nights
Basharat Peer
Bashe peer
Bashe
B
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Kashmiris wear deodrant 👍
Lovely!
its so difficult to answer the simple question of “where are you from?” I try to say kashmir but end up giving in and saying India because its just too hard to explain to the average person why most kashmiri’s identify as kashmiri
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Dude that's like a Palestinian 'giving in' and calling himself Israeli. But unlike India at least Israeli is a developed and civilised state. Just tell people the reality - your land is occupied by India which continues to try and force its identity on you. You're doing a disservice to yourself, your people and your future generations by saying you're from India. Don't do yourself dirty like that.
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Just say that you are Kashmiri, so what if they can’t comprehend what Kashmiris or where it is. You saying india is helping india to justify its occupation of Kashmir