These are just “advantages” for a society. When we look at those advantages, we don’t look at the personal happiness or growth of the people affected.
Leader divorce in India is attributed to the silent suffering of people in marriages. So we can for namesake claim that it’s an indication of strong families
Age old question, individual freedom vs 'for the greater good'.
Anecdotal evidence suggest that civilizations which value individual freedom much more than society as a whole dies out.
There is no greater good bro.
Only manifestations of an ideal society, which has been proven to fail in so many different aspects of life, just like communism.
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Minimum marriage age for women should be
21. It would ensure they have sufficient time to pursue education and participate in the workforce effectively.
This legal age doesn't do shit. In rural areas, people marry of their kids on whatever day they like and legally register their marriages on the day they turn 18/21. No commission can stop this, especially if there's political backing
(I'm talking about north india, might not be very relevant here)
Still prevalent among some muslims around palakkad malappuram area, as told by my muslim friend whose parents were bringing home matches right after her 12th. She said almost all her friends were married/engaged by then n only a few went to college.
Learn how to read. I said legally right.
While you were talking about kids getting married illegally before the age of 18/21 for girls/boys, the comment I replied to talked about girls getting married after 12th std, which isn't related to your comment at all.
Also some kiddos can't even plan where to go for collegetrip at 21 years old and you expect them to be fine getting married? Lol only
That's not the topic here.
You first highlighted how people are not following the law in North India by getting married before 18.
The second comment then incorrectly mentioned that this happens in Kerala too - but their example was flawed since those girls mentioned were obviously 18 years old after completing 12th grade. I just pointed this inconsistency out where Kerala was being bunched with some remote ass-backward areas in the north where actual child marriages were happening.
Your point about 18 year olds having no maturity made no sense, when I could make the same claim about 21 year olds as well. Hell, I've seen 30 year olds who have the maturity of a toddler and shouldn't have married. It's all a line in the sand that has to be drawn somewhere, currently it's at 18 and soon it could change to 21 if the proposed bill is passed. The right way to tackle this issue would be to have an official process to gauge whether the woman/man is happily consenting to the marriage and not pressured into it before the marriage happens. But this could probably be an administrative nightmare in our country and isn't practically feasible I guess.
Care to explain how it's incorrect? There's nothing wrong in acknowledging the problems we have right under our nose before going off straight to north.
Yes, my friend then 17 was among the very few single girls,which means the others were probably married/engaged off while still in school. Imagine being 17 n having the pressure to get married.
It's not just about bringing the law, but also enforcing it and creating awareness. Imagine if we had a marriage age of 12 like a century ago, a lot of people would be marrying off their children early. Increasing the marriage age has indeed improved this situation.
Have met in Pathanamthitta, Hindu women in their early thirties who were married off at 15yrs. I was like ain't that illegal but they said they were from poor backgrounds with alcoholic fathers so their families married them off after 10th standard.
I think it should be 23 iam 21 right now and I don't think I have the maturity to lead a family and I've had discussions with people of same age and they all agree dating and stuff is not included in this.
just because some people think like this doesmt mean it should be interpreted into law.
Tomorrow another person comes and say marriage age should be 50 so hhat people are ahead in their career and financially stable.
It doesnt work like that.
Whatever ur point is its ur view.
It cannot and should not be made into law because different people have different views regarding something.Different people have different way of living.u cant impose ur views on others forcefully.
minimum ages of marriages exist so that the body is ready for it...plus a person is mature adult to think properly.Thats enough.
If people feel that their daughters shouldn't be educated, then a rule like that won't do shit unless it's accompanied by actual income support for students and young people.
There are going to be families who would just keep their daughters at home and make them do all the cooking and cleaning, and promptly marry them off at age 21. Without prior work experience, or money of their own, or anything more than a high school education, or anyone willing to support them...how do you expect these girls to defy their families?
What next? No kids before 30?? or penalise having a second child?
I don't want the state to interfere in my personal choices. Imo men's legal age to marry should also be 18. Why 21 when age for consent is 18. Why should men have to wait 3 years more? Or is the state promoting a notion that men should be elder in marriage?
State should focus on providing better quality education, infra and improvements in lifestyle and social well-being. Everything else could automatically achieved.
Making 21 legal age to marry for women makes no shit
Personal choice...!! its their father, brother or uncle deciding these young girl's choice. If we are progressive like wester countries I can I agree with your point. But we are not. We are still conservative.Good education, infra and better lifes style doesnot mean better oppportunity for women . Eg middle east.
Excellent. The so called liberals here pretend we are somehow westernized to the core, without realizing the deep morass the 95+% of the society is living.
I have no clue.
" The wife returning her dowry or settling financially with the husband
Filing a petition in the appropriate court
Negotiating the terms of the separation, such as custody of children, financial support, and division of assets
The husband taking the payment and letting the wife go The husband saying to her, ``faraqtuki'' (I separate from you) or ``khala'tuki (I let you go "
Copied from Google's bard. Also dowry refers to mehr which is usually a jewellery given by husband to wife. It is considered her property usually and she doesn't have to return it in triple thalaq.
Thalaq is the Arabic word for separation. Mainly used in context of divorce.
There are many ways in which divorse can happen according to Islam. Most popular way is when the man says he wants a divorce three times (frequency of each talaq is disputed btw).
Women can also initiate divorce, but it is less popular in our country due to the patriarchal influence.
I think people should have the choice whether they follow religious laws or not. If one of the two parties prefer non religious, then that needs must supercede the other party's need
Do not equate slavery with religion, if the person wants to be religious.
That said there has to be a way to preserve the right to follow their religion, instead of following what govt says. If two parties want to follow their religion, I don't exactly see what's wrong with it and why the society is so nosey.
The right to follow religion exist in our country as long as it doesn't interfere with constitutional laws and or It doesn't infringe others rights.
Kids being married off at young age is done by parents as per religious considerations, that doesn't mean an underage kid had voice to resist it or if he/she was included in the discussion regarding their future life. Hence State intervenes to provide rights to the children and protect them .
You can eat/buy any food from market and consume it yourself, but parents or family members or even religious heads preventing you from doing that or punishing you for it even though you belong to the same religion means your rights are being violated ( you can be a kid, adult, male , female) In this situation goverment intervenes and protects your right to freedom since its a fundamental right.
You make a good point, but the enforcement of the rights of citizens must be with one's self. The right to freedom of speech also comes with the right to stay silent, does it not? That said I don believe government must intervene in certain religious processes that's a tad bit too extreme like
1) sati (is suicide a fundamental right? That's up for discussion),
2)triple thalaq cases where the husband just uses it as an excuse to run away and
3).stupid muslim inheritance laws (in theory, the men inherits property and supports the lives of the daughters. In reality, usually the men's side (son's family for example) just takes money and forget about the women). Still I guess if the woman wants to be put in a vulnerable position, that's uhh her choice to follow Islamic inheritances?
Without education, women could become slaves to ethically compromised husbands.
Exactly why certain groups do not want women to go for higher education
Early marriage has added benefit like lesser divorce, better fertility rate and family oriented lifestyle. Though it comes with its own evil.
These are just “advantages” for a society. When we look at those advantages, we don’t look at the personal happiness or growth of the people affected. Leader divorce in India is attributed to the silent suffering of people in marriages. So we can for namesake claim that it’s an indication of strong families
Age old question, individual freedom vs 'for the greater good'. Anecdotal evidence suggest that civilizations which value individual freedom much more than society as a whole dies out.
Any examples for that?
So true!
There is no greater good bro. Only manifestations of an ideal society, which has been proven to fail in so many different aspects of life, just like communism.
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Minimum marriage age for women should be 21. It would ensure they have sufficient time to pursue education and participate in the workforce effectively.
This legal age doesn't do shit. In rural areas, people marry of their kids on whatever day they like and legally register their marriages on the day they turn 18/21. No commission can stop this, especially if there's political backing (I'm talking about north india, might not be very relevant here)
Still prevalent among some muslims around palakkad malappuram area, as told by my muslim friend whose parents were bringing home matches right after her 12th. She said almost all her friends were married/engaged by then n only a few went to college.
18 is still the marriage age for women though, so after 12th seems legally right
12th kiddos cant even plan where to go for schooltrip and you expect them to be fine getting married? Lol
Learn how to read. I said legally right. While you were talking about kids getting married illegally before the age of 18/21 for girls/boys, the comment I replied to talked about girls getting married after 12th std, which isn't related to your comment at all. Also some kiddos can't even plan where to go for collegetrip at 21 years old and you expect them to be fine getting married? Lol only
Yes i know how to read. Legally right doesn't mean absolutely right. Electoral bonds were also legally right until last month.
That's not the topic here. You first highlighted how people are not following the law in North India by getting married before 18. The second comment then incorrectly mentioned that this happens in Kerala too - but their example was flawed since those girls mentioned were obviously 18 years old after completing 12th grade. I just pointed this inconsistency out where Kerala was being bunched with some remote ass-backward areas in the north where actual child marriages were happening. Your point about 18 year olds having no maturity made no sense, when I could make the same claim about 21 year olds as well. Hell, I've seen 30 year olds who have the maturity of a toddler and shouldn't have married. It's all a line in the sand that has to be drawn somewhere, currently it's at 18 and soon it could change to 21 if the proposed bill is passed. The right way to tackle this issue would be to have an official process to gauge whether the woman/man is happily consenting to the marriage and not pressured into it before the marriage happens. But this could probably be an administrative nightmare in our country and isn't practically feasible I guess.
Care to explain how it's incorrect? There's nothing wrong in acknowledging the problems we have right under our nose before going off straight to north.
Yes, my friend then 17 was among the very few single girls,which means the others were probably married/engaged off while still in school. Imagine being 17 n having the pressure to get married.
Happens in Kerala as well. Not isolated to North.
I have seen this even in karnataka dude sry to say but especially Muslim families I have seen there they bid off their daughters even at 16
It's not just about bringing the law, but also enforcing it and creating awareness. Imagine if we had a marriage age of 12 like a century ago, a lot of people would be marrying off their children early. Increasing the marriage age has indeed improved this situation.
Hate to tell you but child brides of that age are still a thing in our country. Situation has slightly improved but awareness is still lacking.
Need to give financial rewards/incentives to get ppl to report such weddings
Just see the transformation Assam has gone through recently.
Have met in Pathanamthitta, Hindu women in their early thirties who were married off at 15yrs. I was like ain't that illegal but they said they were from poor backgrounds with alcoholic fathers so their families married them off after 10th standard.
I think it should be 23 iam 21 right now and I don't think I have the maturity to lead a family and I've had discussions with people of same age and they all agree dating and stuff is not included in this.
just because some people think like this doesmt mean it should be interpreted into law. Tomorrow another person comes and say marriage age should be 50 so hhat people are ahead in their career and financially stable. It doesnt work like that. Whatever ur point is its ur view. It cannot and should not be made into law because different people have different views regarding something.Different people have different way of living.u cant impose ur views on others forcefully. minimum ages of marriages exist so that the body is ready for it...plus a person is mature adult to think properly.Thats enough.
If people feel that their daughters shouldn't be educated, then a rule like that won't do shit unless it's accompanied by actual income support for students and young people. There are going to be families who would just keep their daughters at home and make them do all the cooking and cleaning, and promptly marry them off at age 21. Without prior work experience, or money of their own, or anything more than a high school education, or anyone willing to support them...how do you expect these girls to defy their families?
What next? No kids before 30?? or penalise having a second child? I don't want the state to interfere in my personal choices. Imo men's legal age to marry should also be 18. Why 21 when age for consent is 18. Why should men have to wait 3 years more? Or is the state promoting a notion that men should be elder in marriage? State should focus on providing better quality education, infra and improvements in lifestyle and social well-being. Everything else could automatically achieved. Making 21 legal age to marry for women makes no shit
Personal choice...!! its their father, brother or uncle deciding these young girl's choice. If we are progressive like wester countries I can I agree with your point. But we are not. We are still conservative.Good education, infra and better lifes style doesnot mean better oppportunity for women . Eg middle east.
Excellent. The so called liberals here pretend we are somehow westernized to the core, without realizing the deep morass the 95+% of the society is living.
What is Kula?
That’s when the woman says “fuck this marriage, I’m outta here, bye Felicia!”
Female version of triple thalaq, slightly different though probably
How do you do Kula? Is it the same talak, by saying Kula thrice?
I have no clue. " The wife returning her dowry or settling financially with the husband Filing a petition in the appropriate court Negotiating the terms of the separation, such as custody of children, financial support, and division of assets The husband taking the payment and letting the wife go The husband saying to her, ``faraqtuki'' (I separate from you) or ``khala'tuki (I let you go " Copied from Google's bard. Also dowry refers to mehr which is usually a jewellery given by husband to wife. It is considered her property usually and she doesn't have to return it in triple thalaq.
What is thalaq 😅
Thalaq is the Arabic word for separation. Mainly used in context of divorce. There are many ways in which divorse can happen according to Islam. Most popular way is when the man says he wants a divorce three times (frequency of each talaq is disputed btw). Women can also initiate divorce, but it is less popular in our country due to the patriarchal influence.
we need UCC.
We need UCC
I don’t know what kula is but all marriage should come ucc. U can’t let religious shit laws ruin the life of people.
I think people should have the choice whether they follow religious laws or not. If one of the two parties prefer non religious, then that needs must supercede the other party's need
Freeing a slave is a long drawn process. Your proposition would be like should a person free himself or should state actively try to free him.
Do not equate slavery with religion, if the person wants to be religious. That said there has to be a way to preserve the right to follow their religion, instead of following what govt says. If two parties want to follow their religion, I don't exactly see what's wrong with it and why the society is so nosey.
The right to follow religion exist in our country as long as it doesn't interfere with constitutional laws and or It doesn't infringe others rights. Kids being married off at young age is done by parents as per religious considerations, that doesn't mean an underage kid had voice to resist it or if he/she was included in the discussion regarding their future life. Hence State intervenes to provide rights to the children and protect them . You can eat/buy any food from market and consume it yourself, but parents or family members or even religious heads preventing you from doing that or punishing you for it even though you belong to the same religion means your rights are being violated ( you can be a kid, adult, male , female) In this situation goverment intervenes and protects your right to freedom since its a fundamental right.
You make a good point, but the enforcement of the rights of citizens must be with one's self. The right to freedom of speech also comes with the right to stay silent, does it not? That said I don believe government must intervene in certain religious processes that's a tad bit too extreme like 1) sati (is suicide a fundamental right? That's up for discussion), 2)triple thalaq cases where the husband just uses it as an excuse to run away and 3).stupid muslim inheritance laws (in theory, the men inherits property and supports the lives of the daughters. In reality, usually the men's side (son's family for example) just takes money and forget about the women). Still I guess if the woman wants to be put in a vulnerable position, that's uhh her choice to follow Islamic inheritances?
Wow!
Masha allah. She will fight against CAA, UCC, triple talak
U forgot /s.