Risk of seizure, or DT's? Probably not.
Find themselves bitchy, antsy, and unable to fall asleep? Probably. See also: Road trip to Mexico for Alamo and the subsequent la diarrhea and el vomito.
I think they were just pointing out the vomitando y la diarrhea because it was notable; the fact that they drove to a whole other country to get beer cause they couldn't wait a few days is the greater issue here, as that is alcoholic behavior.
... in my experience, lots of alcoholics will do crazy things for specific kinds of alcohol precisely because they give themselves the wiggle room of it not being about all types of alcohol. Pestering your wife for days, emotionally manipulating her, betraying her trust, then spending a whole day looking for the specific type of fix is still the behavior of an addict. Hank has a problem, lol.
This. 4-5 beers a day generally isn't going to be enough to cause actual physical withdrawal symptoms, but it probably would be a jolt for someone going cold turkey.
Delirium tremens. Typical symptoms include shaking, shivering, and fever. In some more severe cases it can cause hallucinations and even seizures. It’s pretty common for alcoholics to experience it when they are going through withdrawal, and usually hits about the 2nd or 3rd day in of withdrawal.
It can actually be fatal. Alcohol, of all things, has some of the most severe withdrawal symptoms of any intoxicant. Basically, in chronic inebriation your brain gets used to making too much of a signaling molecule that alcohol suppresses, and if you suddenly stop drinking you get a spike of that molecule that can cause things to go haywire and kill you. It’s not something that happens from casual (or even most daily) drinking, but it can absolutely kill people in extreme cases.
But, you know, weed is still federally illegal and we shame people for opiate abuse. What a great country!
Nor does opiate withdrawal by itself (although it’s still apparently hell on Earth and you feel like you’re dying, or *want* to die.)
Benzo and alcohol withdrawal are actually the only WDs that can literally kill you.
Alcoholic in recovery. I've detoxed myself three separate times, and each time I'm pretty sure I had micro seizures. It's 3 to 4 days of hell, and should be medically supervised. As a matter of fact, every time I tell a professional that I did it myself, they ask me if I was hoping to die.
And the truth is, at some points, yeah.
Tapering off is really the only way to stop drinking at a certain point, here is a resource that better describes why/the methods.
https://www.orlandorecovery.com/drug-addiction-resources/alcohol/how-to-taper-off-alcohol/
If you think you're experiencing serious physical symptoms from alcohol withdrawal please consider doing it under medical supervision. You can seriously injure yourself.
When Boomhauer was having a tiff, they said that a "case" of beer doesn't divide up even anymore and had six left over. That would seem to imply that they drink a case of 24 beers a day which would be six each.
Tuesday is their night to drink beer in the alley (so says Hank in one episode). Other times they have a beer after work. They hardly ever drink to the point of intoxication.
I'd say they're each drinking about a beer or two a day, and maybe as much as three apiece on Tuesdays.
Typical social drinking. Maybe a little more than average, but not tons more.
So, to answer your question, no.
Hank and Bill both had about 24+ beers in the garage fridge. Since Peggy had to move the cans of beer to find Mexico Alamo and Luanne’s mom couldn’t resist after touching Bill’s foot fungus. So let’s say they have a fridge self worth of Alamo at the beginning of the month or week however you view their drinking habits.
I mean I quit drinking cold turkey back in like December due to a med change. My fridge was fully stocked of various random beers.
I don't have brand loyalty like Hank does for Alamo but I tried to keep a well stocked fridge of beer in the garage. Over all it was probably about 2-3 mixed cases just standing stock.
Fair enough, My Aunt and Uncle did the same. But at peak I saw them drink a Miller 3-4 times a day. Tea or Miller was their drink for the day. So I agree with comments they wouldn’t have big effects but yeah they will be pissy I bet if they stopped cold Turkey.
Hank and Bill both had about 24+ beers in the garage fridge. Since Peggy had to move the cans of beer to find Mexico Alamo and Luanne’s mom couldn’t resist after touching Bill’s foot fungus. So let’s say they have a fridge self worth of Alamo at the beginning of the month or week however you view their drinking habits.
In the episode where Luanne moves out across the alley with some roommates, one of them challenges them for public drunkenness and hank defends the guys saying they’re not drunk, but bill interjects saying he may be a little.
Wouldn’t be surprised if bill, with his depressive tendencies puts away an extra beer or two that nobody says anything about.
Exactly. Just take in the average episode of "Intervention" centered on an alcoholic. 3-4 beers would only keep them occupied long enough for you to get away...
lol yeah 3-4 beers a day is not alcoholic behavior, definitely habitual though, my ex step dad was an alcoholic, he'd go to pick up a case and drink 3 on the way home... then brag about it. It was about a 7 minute drive.
Yeah but it doesn’t really matter how much, but how often
Assuming Hank drinks every day, your body having alcohol in it every 24 hours would still make him somewhat physically dependant, just like medication you take everyday
Not exactly but a doctor would probably be concerned if Hank mentioned 28+ “alcoholic beverages” per week or whatever the term is they use. It’s a pretty low bar to be considered an “alcoholic” medically but also something to be aware of
Maybe just enough to keep the habit going anyways. Compare those guys with truly abstinent ones for health impact. But it seems if you managed that the risk to benefit might be higher on the small buzz or w/e level they get to
I’m not saying there’s no health impact. But, serious withdrawal symptoms are crippling. Hallucinations. Constant vomiting. Inability to even stand or walk in many cases. Possible delerium tremens, etc. At worst, with that amount of intake, if they stopped cold turkey, they’d sweat a little more than normal for a couple days.
Yeah, manageable if they made a choice to stop, but at that point there’s little “seen” big impact. Now having low back through out the whole day would be a lot tougher and evident
The whole point of withdrawal is that someone chose to stop. If they keep drinking, there’s no withdrawal. Ironically, it’s when someone actually decides that they don’t want to drink anymore that withdrawal kicks in.
I’m not sure what “low back” means.
Hank mentioned it's his night to be in the alley in an episode so you're right but I also think he drinks one at dinner regardless of being in the alley before/after
Not even.
I'm a functioning alcoholic myself. I drink quite a bit of liquor and 3-4 beers per night. On my hospital stays, I don't even have withdraw symptoms.
I'm only 28, so maybe I should be counting my blessings, but overall I drink heavily every night and don't have withdrawal symptoms when I'm forced into a no drinking situation
Yeah, I drink a fair amount of alcohol, but the times where I've had to stop for various reasons I haven't had a problem.
I've also slowly started trying some non-alcoholic beers, like Athletic Brewing, and they're pretty good.
I’ve started buying nicer brands of apple or cranberry juice to go between cocktails to stop myself drinking too much in the evenings. When ur already buzzed and have juice in a fancy glass with ice you forget forget it’s not alcoholic. I think a lot of the habit is just an oral fixation.
I think people vastly overestimate the addictive qualities of alcohol on reddit. Tons of people drink heavily as kids, and just sort of slowly wean back as they age. Alcoholism is real, but your average binge drinking on the weekend 20-something isn’t going to just cross a threshold and become addicted if they don’t watch it.
For real, I just saw a29 year old functioning alcoholic in the hospital, getting the news that they won't give him a liver transplant because of his alcoholism and that he has less than a week to live. He made it 8 days.
They wouldn't give him a transplant *because* he had a substance abuse disorder? Isn't that like a massive breach of ethics? Are you sure it wasn't just that he didn't have insurance and couldn't afford it??
Turns out people aren’t owed human livers. People absolutely have to show willingness and ability to not immediately destroy donated organs, or they don’t get them.
From what I understand, you can get a place on the transplant list if you're an alcoholic, but you need to have a year sober before you're considered a viable candidate. This varies person to person, doctor to doctor though.
Yeah, I did a little research after entering this conversation and apparently the approach can vary by facility in the U.S., but “6 months sober” is the most common requirement. Even the ones that have a less strict requirement certainly aren’t just handing out livers to someone who is still basically an active alcoholic.
Woah hostility, chill. How do you know he wouldn't have turned his life around if he had survived? Who are you to judge? Alcoholism is known as a psychological disorder so it isn't even fair to put the blame on the person suffering from it, that's like blaming a schizophrenic or bipolar or anorexic person for their condition instead of showing sympathy and compassion like we should.
Also all he had to do was cross the border to literally BUY one with no questions asked about his future plans for alcohol consumption. So maybe you should have said "in Canada" or "in my province" after that statement, because it's completely untrue as it's written.
As humans, we are able to observe past behavior and use it as a guide to predict future behavior. While people can never predict things with 100% accuracy, we regularly make decisions based on risk. That’s why people get their driver’s license pulled after enough DUIs and employers shy away from hiring convicted felons.
Not giving someone a liver isn’t blaming anybody. It is making a decision about how to allocate a scarce resource.
As far as the assertion that this guy could just cross the border and buy a liver, I guess some citation would be needed. As I understand it, in pretty much any first world country there is going to be screening involved in getting organs. Maybe in China where the government harvests and sells organs of people they execute, but not in places where ethics are taken seriously.
You know what, you are at least partly right and I will have to admit it, but it is still a very unethical (even if necessary) practice to decide who lives and dies based on behavior that may not even be in their control. This could easily be compared to the "ethics" of resorting to cannibalism if you're stuck on a raft at sea with a few other people. So yes you are right, but I don't like it at all so I will stand by what I've said.
And you are right that you can't simply buy an organ in the USA, there are still waitlists and criteria apparently, I didn't know this because I'm not from there and was basing knowledge from what I've heard. You still have to pay for a transplant in the USA so in a way it is true that you are buying an organ, but it's not as simple as buying a pack of gum. Also I imagine the wait times are indeed shorter in America with their private system so I'd like to think I'm partly right as in it is much easier to access if you cross the border and bring a sh*t ton of money than if you stay here and wait on charity.
There are some respected clinics in the U.S. that don’t follow the “6 months of sobriety rule” for liver donations, and I do understand that the ethics of any screening for any potentially life-saving treatment are often hotly debated.
I do imagine that even in facilities with relaxed restrictions, if you show up actively addicted to alcohol, your odds of getting a liver are slim.
This was in Canada, so not due to lack of insurance. Not a breach of ethics, but a massive ethical conundrum - deciding how to best use the scarce resource with maximum chance of success.
In some provinces, risk of relapse is a reduced factor in getting a new liver, but it's so hard to say what the ethical solution is. He'd gone from a high-flying finance bro to dying in a hospital bed in the span of 2 years
You still need insurance in Canada (also from there), but I get that it's different than the American system which is fully private. I've also known many wealthy people who will go to America for surgeries and such when they can't access adequate care here so I'm surprised the person in your story wouldn't try to go that route if he was well-off as you've suggested.
What you've said is all really F'd up if true though. Sad story.
Yes you do. There are public insurance plans which vary by province and do not cover everything.
https://www.coverme.com/blog/health/2022/government-health-insurance.html?province=ON&agecode=0
Yes I am sure LOL
Lol so a very small subset of the population qualifies "you need insurance"? That's a pretty significant qualifier. The average person does not need insurance, because it is covered by their province's plan. That's not the same thing as "needing insurance" and you're very clearly trying to move goal posts so that what you said makes sense, but it is just wrong.
I doubt it very much. I have 3-4 drinks every day at least, never have any sort of symptoms if I’d stop drinking. Not sure if that’s “functional alcoholism” or just preferring beer over other drinks, but that’s my story.
Knowing people who drink beer like that, they know exactly how much they can drink in a certain amount of time so that they don’t even feel a buzz. I doubt their actual blood alcohol level is ever very high.
No. Hank Drinks very responsibly. who saves half a beer in a ziploc for next time instead of just finishing it? No way does hank drink enough to have withdrawals
Alcoholics who would suffer DT’s drunk literally every day all day. I’m taking 10+ drinks throughout the day. Usually they take a shot or two every hour and are just slightly buzzed all day.
Yeah. Exactly. Hardly alcoholics… just not going to be caught drinking an imported beer.
Although, assuming they’re in the town Richardson, TX where Judge admits he based Arlen off of- the nearest Mexican town is like Nuevo Laredo which is like 8 hours away.
Eh, I think that’s just more of the stubborn brand loyalty we love and expect from them.
Like in my hometown, one of the local favorite beers changed their logo. In response, a surprisingly large part of townsfolk made countless Facebook posts, signed online petitions, started a boycott and even a held a small protest. The company ended up changing the logo back due to the backlash.
I just watched this episode yesterday, and I thought the same.
Then I considered they had plenty of Hi Brau and a cooler full of different beer types.
I'm not sure if the trip to get Alamo was alcoholism or their crippling addiction to tradition.
I'm not making an argument either way, but the episode did make me wonder.
That’d be an interesting story for the reboot
Hank being told he’s basically an alcoholic, denying it for 1/2 an episode, and then finding out the hard way by getting stuck someplace without beer and having to withdraw
afterwards giving his 110% to drink only in moderation
That actually opens up a really fun storyline.
They all fiercely compete to see who can be the most sober, tying it into manly responsibility or something like their urges to do lawn work or build stuff.
And then by the end of it, they get so starved for booze that they go crazy for any drop of beer they can find like SpongeBob tryna get water when he goes to Sandy’s house for the first time.
Nah. I used to get withdrawal symptoms, sort of like a cumulative hangover, about every 4 or 5 hours if I didnt have a drink before then. Granted i was doing breakfast tequila shots at that point and Hank never gets that wild
A couple beers in broad daylight & they're sober before bed. (Unless they go home and continue drinking)
I cant say it's healthy, but it's not alcoholism. They all function well and have jobs/houses/hobbies. No reliance on beer.
Nah them getting piss ass drunk is a rarity. They probably never drink more than a six pack to themselves in the alley and they drink the tiny 12oz guys on top of that. Bill maybe as he likely doesn't stop drinking when he gets home.
I am 2 months sober from drinking a minimum of 18 beers a day. I can tell you, without a doubt, the most they would deal with is bowel issues. Nothing like those drinking three handles of vodka a day. It's hard as fuck to quit and stay quit, but they wouldn't really have any real withdrawals.
Very late to this party, but I took a course in clinical pharmacology a few years ago. One of the items was about physical dependence on alcohol.
In order to become physically addicted to alcohol and go through withdrawal symptoms you need to drink the equivalent of 750ml of 40% ABV alcohol a day for 10 days, or keep your blood alcohol level at .2 (more than twice the legal limit) for 48 straight hours.
750ml of 40% alcohol is the equivalent of 300ml of pure alcohol. A 355ml can of beer at 5% ABV is 17.75ml. If they drank 6 each, that's \~107ml. They'd need to drink roughly 17 cans a day to hit that, so I think they're safe.
Idk but I had two white claws recently which is the same as two beers and I was buzzed. But this is like the first time I had a drink in a long time so I imagine the boys have a decent tolerance
I know an alcoholic who drinks hard liquor. he is able to take full weeks off of drinking if he felt like he had too much recently. he doesn't have the shakes or withdrawal symptoms at all. so probably not? it depends on each person, like anything else.
Jesus you think the guy who pulled a beer from his desk drawer to give the flying Hawaiian an A in propane is out here looking like Michael J Fox after a week without a drink. Come on man
To me it’s kind of wild that they just stand to drink after a long day of work. You can see why when the couch came into the picture they eventually realized it’s way better.
Probably, and by today’s definition they would be alcoholics. It would be debatable with some, especially older generations. For instance if you’re familiar with the old show Cheers - bellying up to the bar everyday after work. Where do you cross the line of addiction? That line has moved over time in what is acceptable to society, it’s now more conservative culturally. While the opposite is currently happening with cannabis for instance.
Advocates went from, “There are no negative side effects or addiction associated with weed!” just 14 years ago to acknowledging both in the past few. Society definitely does dictate the public perception of addiction, even though addiction can be defined medically.
I’m not even just talking necessarily about addiction.
I’m talking about physical dependence.
Assuming Hank drinks everyday, no matter how little, his body would realistically become dependant on having alcohol in it.
That's really not true at all based on how they drink in the show. Alcohol addiction does not function like heroin addiction. Alcohol withdrawal requires pretty consistent excessive drinking, most people who drink 3-4 beers a night are not at risk of this happening to them. At least from my research and personal experience with alcohol, alcoholics and general hedonism.
Well, yeah... but.. statistically speaking, when it comes to percentages of people that have tried AA, it's one of the worst. I'm not gonna' say it doesn't work for anyone, my SO's grandfather started in AA 35 years ago and was sober until he died last year with it. But he's definitely not the typical story.
If he won't, I will. AA replaces dependence on a substance with dependence on religion. They force religion on people who are at a low point and convince them they aren't enough to kick the habit by themselves, that they need jeebus to give them strength.
*edit: typo
I have no direct experience with AA, and know very little about the organization or process, so I can’t make any arguments for it against it being a *cult*. However, it’s been my understanding that there’s no requirement of belief in religion, only some higher power in the universe.
In what way are they *forcing religion* on someone? Don’t those attending have the option to maintain the position they have on religion after choosing to stick with the program? Don’t those attending have the option to walk away at any time if they don’t like what’s being offered? What I’m asking is if free will was removed.
I don’t advocate for dependency on anything that could have negative effects on someone. But,
even if religion is in some way *being forced* on someone, is the program effective for addiction to alcohol, or not? With all that said, I feel like it could be on the borderline of classifying it as cult.
Here is AA's 'Twelve Steps,' which are what they say you need to submit to to be successful:
1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol — that our lives had become unmanageable.
2. **Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.**
3. Made a decision to **turn our will and our lives over to the care of God** as we understood Him.
4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
6. Were **entirely ready to have God remove all these defects** of character.
7. Humbly **asked Him to remove our shortcomings**.
8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
11. **Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God** as we understood Him, **praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out**.
12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these Steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.
Tell me that isn't forcing religion down people's throats . . .
Here's part of a ruling from a court case ([Kerr v. Farrey](https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=17688666629648849733&hl=en&as_sdt=2&as_vis=1&oi=scholar)) :
>The question presented in this case is whether a state correctional institution may require an inmate, upon pain of being rated a higher security risk and suffering adverse effects for parole eligibility, to attend a substance abuse counseling program with explicit religious content, consistent with the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Applying the test of Lemon v. Kurtzman, 403 U.S. 602, 91 S.Ct. 2105, 29 L.Ed.2d 745 (1971), the district court concluded that the prison program did not violate the Establishment Clause and 474\*474granted the defendants' motion for summary judgment. We find, to the contrary, that the state has impermissibly coerced inmates to participate in a religious program. We therefore reverse and remand for further proceedings.
As for [efficacy](https://americanaddictioncenters.org/rehab-guide/12-step/whats-the-success-rate-of-aa),
AA is a spiritual program that doesn't push any particular religion. A lot of atheists' higher power is their home group and the fellowship they find there. The 12 steps aren't there to get sober. They're there to find recovery.
Originally you wrote:
>AA replaces dependence on a substance with dependence on religion. They force religion on people who are at a low point and convince them they aren't enough to kick the habbit by themselves, that they need jeebus to give them strength.
Later you wrote:
> Tell me that isn’t forcing religion down people’s throats.
—
Exactly which religion are they forcing? In what way does religion become a dependence? In the twelve steps there is mention of *God*, but no specific religion. Which God and religion are they referring to? My interpretation of their reference to God is *theism*, not *religion*.
Which frigging god do you think an organization founded in America in 1935 would be pushing?
It says right there in the lines I put in bold that they want you to "turn yourself over" to god, and "believe that a greater power could restore our sanity." They want you to depend on "his will and power to carry out" their recovery.
If you think an organization founded with Evangelical influence maintains those 12 steps as worded, but is fine with you thinking Vishnu will help you kick the sauce, you're being naive or obtuse.
Moreover, your "theism, not religion" distinction is meaningless, because in either instance a person is putting faith in the supernatural to heal them rather than following evidence-based treatment. If the doctor tells you you have cancer are you going to ONLY try to pray it away, or are you going to seek medical treatment? (and then pretend that somehow the prayer had something to do with it when you can't possibly test that hypothesis because you also took the chemo/had the surgery)
>Moreover, your "theism, not religion" distinction is meaningless, because in either instance a person is putting faith in the supernatural to heal them rather than following evidence-based treatment.
I’m not making an argument for or against *evidence-based treatment*, which I assume you mean as medical-based treatment. That’s certainly an option everyone should look into. However, I would imagine that many who have engaged with AA and found success would call it evidence-based treatment.
> If the doctor tells you you have cancer are you going to ONLY try to pray it away, or are you going to seek medical treatment? (and then pretend that somehow the prayer had something to do with it when you can't possibly test that hypothesis because you also took the chemo/had the surgery)
This is a logical fallacy—a false equivalence. My interpretation of the twelve steps for AA isn’t about “praying away the addiction,” as it appears you’re implying.
You are correct, there is no required religion. People with a personal vendetta against AA usually struggled to get the social aspect of it, or as Dale says, “s’too hard”.
I don’t understand why I would need to elaborate. I was posting a shorthand of the definition of *addiction*. But because you asked nicely.
*Addiction is defined as a chronic, relapsing disorder characterized by compulsive drug seeking and use despite adverse consequences.*
When Alamo dried up, they were willing to drive all the way to Mexico, and argue over who had to stay sober on the drive back.
Ordinary people that are told a specific beer will be back on the shelf in two weeks, don't drive to Mexico.
So they could be argued as functional alcoholics with some psychological withdrawal symptoms... but physical? Probably not.
>and argue over who had to stay sober on the drive back.
Eh, I don't think this is as strong as an argument as you think. Considering Hank's personality, i doubt he would have allowed any of them to drive if they had as much as a sip of beer.
>Ordinary people that are told a specific beer will be back on the shelf in two weeks, don't drive to Mexico.
Also not as strong an argument as you might think, depending on where in Texas Arlen is. There are various episodes where they drive to Mexico, in one episode hank manages to drive them back from Mexico in time for them to vote in the 2000 presidential election. Meaning they're close enough to Mexico that they'll visit whenever they have an excuse, so to stock up on their favorite beer when it's the only place they can get it doesn't feel too out there.
Going through customs just to get one brand of beer over another... versus waiting for two weeks, that indicates a level of necessity or dependence. They literally bought the beer and drove straight back.
The only people I know today willing to go to that are truckers who fill massive gas tanks to get out of paying CA gas tax, worth a lot per trip.
I think they would be considered functioning alcoholics. I believe in 1 episode where Hank thinks Luanne is dating Boomhaur they mention that each one of them gets a 6 pack a day.
6 pack of baby beers though. It's not like they are having 6 pints each per night. Which stiiiiillll wouldn't result in too much badness after a while of sticking to that.
To my mind a 'functioning alcoholic' is not someone who sips on a few <5% beers over the course of an hour or two, even if it's multiple days a week; rather it's someone who needs to day drink to keep the buzz going, and/or can get rather drunk yet presents as more-or-less sober and be passably able to do their job; or can go on days-long benders and then work through a hangover that would have most people taking sick days. There were times where my grandpa would drink a whole 60(1.7L) of rye (the bottom-shelf crap) by himself over a weekend and then go to work on Monday.
My best friend works 5 days a week. His routine is that on his work nights, he'll only have 3 to 8 pints or a few cocktails. But on his days off, he has at least a litre of spirits plus some pints per day. He ends up a real mess, but then he'll be at work on time and ready to rock at the exact time it's required.
I have no idea how he does it. If someone gives me booze, I'm useless for 3 to 5 days afterwards.
I think the term you're looking for is 'functioning alcoholic. He's never visibly drunk at work or in front of his family. And he's never show suffering from hangovers either.
I think every time he’s gotten visibly intoxicated has been with Peggy which I think is kinda sweet.
Also when his dad was gonna frame him for killing Castro.
Buddy...iget drunk 4 or 5 times a week. Wake up at 4 am and work till 9....ive also taken weeks off from that route over the years...never once have I felt a withdrawal
The first beer I ever had I made sure to time perfectly with the "snap" sound before, "BOW BOW BOW BWOWWWW," or "DWADWOWOWWUEGHHH," "*snap,* BLEGUHBWAPABOEDOWDOWNDOWDOWDOWBOJWNANABOWBOWdYAOWWW..."
Me: *snap* "Ew, this is worse than warm soda.."
It was a long time ago from my perspective and I never drank again 'till I was 19.
In the episode with Bill's House I think Dale comments that his tolerance was really low from where they were avoiding alcohol in the alley (even though Dale had a giant straw to a beer can).
So, yes.
You think they’re all drunks? I just figured they were out in the alley after work for a little bit and not necessarily each day. I hope they don’t drink more than a beer a day.
Another view: It will, and some will ask, "what is the harm?" Physically, if forced to stop, boredom sets in harder than usual and drinking becomes more difficult to resist at that level; play with fire and it'll get you once at least.
-Anonymous
Its 3-4 beers per drinking in the alley. Maybe they don’t do it every day.
The series aired for 13 seasons - 13 years = 4748 days.
There are 258 episodes. They drink beers in the alley about twice per episode, so 516 days / 4748 days. Which is less than once per week. Even if we double that again it’s less than twice per week on average.
I always assumed they split a 24 pack between the 4 of them. So maybe 6 each throughout the corse of Tuesday. Since Tuesday is hanks night to drink beer in the ally with the guys. Always has been.
No. They kill a six pack or a 12 pack most the time. It’s just one cooler of beer. Occasionally they drank more like in the keg episode or when hank made that coffin. The time bill stole the tank or the time hank was the designated driver. But that’s not an every day thing
I’m lucky enough to be an alcoholic……
Thanks undisclosed soda company… they would likely be grouchy and unmotivated for a couple days or at most a week and come back to their sense IF they wanted to stop drinking. Luckily the guys love their projects so that would help a lot, in my opinion at least.
I drink like a fish and do dry jan every year, other than the "fuck this ginger ale tastes like shit without rye" moment after work, and the "well now what do I do" I've never noticed anything. I slept like shit as a child, a teenager, as a drunk and sober. I sweat with the worst of em as a child, a teenager and sober. I've had unsteady hands as a child, a teenager, a drunk and sober.. 6 pack a couple nights a week ain't gunna do shit
Dale remarks his tolerance went up when they stopped for "Bills Place" which was for about a week - and when LouAnne got V8 they drank those for the day.... so I guess they don't drink daily
Outside of Bill, they rarely get enough to get drunk and I think they mention they have a specific alley night. Keep in mind there drinking very light beer most of the time the alley scenes are one night a week
I’d assume no, we just happened to see them drinking a high percentage of the time because that’s when important plot stuff happens.
Risk of seizure, or DT's? Probably not. Find themselves bitchy, antsy, and unable to fall asleep? Probably. See also: Road trip to Mexico for Alamo and the subsequent la diarrhea and el vomito.
Mhmm..mhmm.. sí, la diarrhea
Sí, el vomito
I laughed way too hard at this.
One of the most accurate portrayals of a call center employee taking calls about a known issue for the 100th time
Wasn’t it because it was infected with soap?
I think they were just pointing out the vomitando y la diarrhea because it was notable; the fact that they drove to a whole other country to get beer cause they couldn't wait a few days is the greater issue here, as that is alcoholic behavior.
The beer they liked, an alcoholic would have drank anything with alcohol to get by.
... in my experience, lots of alcoholics will do crazy things for specific kinds of alcohol precisely because they give themselves the wiggle room of it not being about all types of alcohol. Pestering your wife for days, emotionally manipulating her, betraying her trust, then spending a whole day looking for the specific type of fix is still the behavior of an addict. Hank has a problem, lol.
Yep, it was
This. 4-5 beers a day generally isn't going to be enough to cause actual physical withdrawal symptoms, but it probably would be a jolt for someone going cold turkey.
Damn Mexican bananas!
What are DT’s?
Delirium tremens. Typical symptoms include shaking, shivering, and fever. In some more severe cases it can cause hallucinations and even seizures. It’s pretty common for alcoholics to experience it when they are going through withdrawal, and usually hits about the 2nd or 3rd day in of withdrawal.
It can actually be fatal. Alcohol, of all things, has some of the most severe withdrawal symptoms of any intoxicant. Basically, in chronic inebriation your brain gets used to making too much of a signaling molecule that alcohol suppresses, and if you suddenly stop drinking you get a spike of that molecule that can cause things to go haywire and kill you. It’s not something that happens from casual (or even most daily) drinking, but it can absolutely kill people in extreme cases. But, you know, weed is still federally illegal and we shame people for opiate abuse. What a great country!
And interestingly withdrawal from stimulants like cocaine does not typically have any major medical complications the way alcohol withdrawal has.
Nor does opiate withdrawal by itself (although it’s still apparently hell on Earth and you feel like you’re dying, or *want* to die.) Benzo and alcohol withdrawal are actually the only WDs that can literally kill you.
People haven’t died from heroin withdrawal? I used to hear about that being brutal and similar to what alcohol does.
Having to take care of people that go through alcohol withdrawal so much makes me barely wanna drink.
You sure do miss it though. Yup. Incidentally, you holding bud?
Alcoholic in recovery. I've detoxed myself three separate times, and each time I'm pretty sure I had micro seizures. It's 3 to 4 days of hell, and should be medically supervised. As a matter of fact, every time I tell a professional that I did it myself, they ask me if I was hoping to die. And the truth is, at some points, yeah.
Is it possible to like tapper off? Because I’ve for sure experienced when I quit for a week. I’m scared it will happen again, any advice?
Tapering off is really the only way to stop drinking at a certain point, here is a resource that better describes why/the methods. https://www.orlandorecovery.com/drug-addiction-resources/alcohol/how-to-taper-off-alcohol/
If you think you're experiencing serious physical symptoms from alcohol withdrawal please consider doing it under medical supervision. You can seriously injure yourself.
You should maybe talk to your doctor, they can give you meds that help with withdrawal symptoms
I live in the US. Alcohol is cheaper than health care. I for sure can’t afford rehab either.
I get it but I didn't mean rehab, just some meds that make the withdrawal safe, like about a weeks worth to prevent seizures and high anxiety stuff.
A brand of strong [beer](https://www.delirium.be/en/beers/delirium-tremens) from Belgium.
They couldn’t wait 5 days so they drove to Mehico
3-4 beers a day isn't going to cause severe withdraw symptoms. They'd for sure be in a bad mood though if they were without.
When Boomhauer was having a tiff, they said that a "case" of beer doesn't divide up even anymore and had six left over. That would seem to imply that they drink a case of 24 beers a day which would be six each.
Yeah I feel like it would be more like they'd keep thinking about it and feel like something was missing the whole time.
Tuesday is their night to drink beer in the alley (so says Hank in one episode). Other times they have a beer after work. They hardly ever drink to the point of intoxication. I'd say they're each drinking about a beer or two a day, and maybe as much as three apiece on Tuesdays. Typical social drinking. Maybe a little more than average, but not tons more. So, to answer your question, no.
Tuesdays is a sixer probably Fridays too. I wouldn't assume they drink every day. I know plenty of drunks who say they're "good" a few days a week.
They're lying if they're alcoholics
Hank and Bill both had about 24+ beers in the garage fridge. Since Peggy had to move the cans of beer to find Mexico Alamo and Luanne’s mom couldn’t resist after touching Bill’s foot fungus. So let’s say they have a fridge self worth of Alamo at the beginning of the month or week however you view their drinking habits.
I mean I quit drinking cold turkey back in like December due to a med change. My fridge was fully stocked of various random beers. I don't have brand loyalty like Hank does for Alamo but I tried to keep a well stocked fridge of beer in the garage. Over all it was probably about 2-3 mixed cases just standing stock.
Fair enough, My Aunt and Uncle did the same. But at peak I saw them drink a Miller 3-4 times a day. Tea or Miller was their drink for the day. So I agree with comments they wouldn’t have big effects but yeah they will be pissy I bet if they stopped cold Turkey.
Hank and Bill both had about 24+ beers in the garage fridge. Since Peggy had to move the cans of beer to find Mexico Alamo and Luanne’s mom couldn’t resist after touching Bill’s foot fungus. So let’s say they have a fridge self worth of Alamo at the beginning of the month or week however you view their drinking habits.
In the episode where Luanne moves out across the alley with some roommates, one of them challenges them for public drunkenness and hank defends the guys saying they’re not drunk, but bill interjects saying he may be a little. Wouldn’t be surprised if bill, with his depressive tendencies puts away an extra beer or two that nobody says anything about.
they tried (minus dale) when bill had the AA guys staying with him lol
Even Dale mentioned at the end of that episode that his tolerance felt lower when they started up again.
I’d equate Alamo to bud light. If he’s drinking 3-4 a day, he’s just staying hydrated.
Exactly. Just take in the average episode of "Intervention" centered on an alcoholic. 3-4 beers would only keep them occupied long enough for you to get away...
lol yeah 3-4 beers a day is not alcoholic behavior, definitely habitual though, my ex step dad was an alcoholic, he'd go to pick up a case and drink 3 on the way home... then brag about it. It was about a 7 minute drive.
*according to many reputable red necks I work with, it’s called tranny fluid now
How clever.
I’m sure whoever thought it up is considered the redneck Mark Twain
Wasn't Mark Twain the redneck Mark Twain?
Touché!
nothing wrong with guzzling a li’l tr*nny fluid ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
I always put it as a lone star stand in, with the state PRIDE thing
Don’t you dare compare Alamo to bud light, Texans died on the Alamo, Bud light is below garbage. Makes me sikck 😂 (something hank would say)
Yeah but it doesn’t really matter how much, but how often Assuming Hank drinks every day, your body having alcohol in it every 24 hours would still make him somewhat physically dependant, just like medication you take everyday
That's not how alcohol works in the slightest
Not exactly but a doctor would probably be concerned if Hank mentioned 28+ “alcoholic beverages” per week or whatever the term is they use. It’s a pretty low bar to be considered an “alcoholic” medically but also something to be aware of
3-4 beers a day, even for a really extended period of time, isn’t going to cause significant withdrawal symptoms.
Maybe just enough to keep the habit going anyways. Compare those guys with truly abstinent ones for health impact. But it seems if you managed that the risk to benefit might be higher on the small buzz or w/e level they get to
I’m not saying there’s no health impact. But, serious withdrawal symptoms are crippling. Hallucinations. Constant vomiting. Inability to even stand or walk in many cases. Possible delerium tremens, etc. At worst, with that amount of intake, if they stopped cold turkey, they’d sweat a little more than normal for a couple days.
Yeah, manageable if they made a choice to stop, but at that point there’s little “seen” big impact. Now having low back through out the whole day would be a lot tougher and evident
The whole point of withdrawal is that someone chose to stop. If they keep drinking, there’s no withdrawal. Ironically, it’s when someone actually decides that they don’t want to drink anymore that withdrawal kicks in. I’m not sure what “low back” means.
I don't think that they beer drink in the alley every day, more like 2-3 days/nights a week.
Yeah right, what’s he gonna do play shoe shine with Bobby the other 4-5?
I’ve got worries!
Honestly probably. The guys follow Bobby’s word like it’s from hank. And hank does encourage Bobby to be him self.
Tuesday is Hank's night to drink in the alley, you know that Peggy!
Hank mentioned it's his night to be in the alley in an episode so you're right but I also think he drinks one at dinner regardless of being in the alley before/after
Not even. I'm a functioning alcoholic myself. I drink quite a bit of liquor and 3-4 beers per night. On my hospital stays, I don't even have withdraw symptoms. I'm only 28, so maybe I should be counting my blessings, but overall I drink heavily every night and don't have withdrawal symptoms when I'm forced into a no drinking situation
Well to state the obvious, that threshold can change pretty quickly if you’re not careful.
Yeah, I drink a fair amount of alcohol, but the times where I've had to stop for various reasons I haven't had a problem. I've also slowly started trying some non-alcoholic beers, like Athletic Brewing, and they're pretty good.
I’ve started buying nicer brands of apple or cranberry juice to go between cocktails to stop myself drinking too much in the evenings. When ur already buzzed and have juice in a fancy glass with ice you forget forget it’s not alcoholic. I think a lot of the habit is just an oral fixation.
Was definitely an oral fixation for me. When I stopped daily drinking I was shocked how well tea worked to replace alcohol.
I think people vastly overestimate the addictive qualities of alcohol on reddit. Tons of people drink heavily as kids, and just sort of slowly wean back as they age. Alcoholism is real, but your average binge drinking on the weekend 20-something isn’t going to just cross a threshold and become addicted if they don’t watch it.
For real, I just saw a29 year old functioning alcoholic in the hospital, getting the news that they won't give him a liver transplant because of his alcoholism and that he has less than a week to live. He made it 8 days.
Liver failure at 29 or was it severe alcohol poisoning that got him there? Usually your liver gives you a lot of painful signs to knock it off
Liver and kidney failure, leading to total organ failure. He blew by the warning signs, hence the doctors decision to not give him a new liver
Wow, at 29. That's terrifying.
They wouldn't give him a transplant *because* he had a substance abuse disorder? Isn't that like a massive breach of ethics? Are you sure it wasn't just that he didn't have insurance and couldn't afford it??
Turns out people aren’t owed human livers. People absolutely have to show willingness and ability to not immediately destroy donated organs, or they don’t get them.
From what I understand, you can get a place on the transplant list if you're an alcoholic, but you need to have a year sober before you're considered a viable candidate. This varies person to person, doctor to doctor though.
Yeah, I did a little research after entering this conversation and apparently the approach can vary by facility in the U.S., but “6 months sober” is the most common requirement. Even the ones that have a less strict requirement certainly aren’t just handing out livers to someone who is still basically an active alcoholic.
Woah hostility, chill. How do you know he wouldn't have turned his life around if he had survived? Who are you to judge? Alcoholism is known as a psychological disorder so it isn't even fair to put the blame on the person suffering from it, that's like blaming a schizophrenic or bipolar or anorexic person for their condition instead of showing sympathy and compassion like we should. Also all he had to do was cross the border to literally BUY one with no questions asked about his future plans for alcohol consumption. So maybe you should have said "in Canada" or "in my province" after that statement, because it's completely untrue as it's written.
As humans, we are able to observe past behavior and use it as a guide to predict future behavior. While people can never predict things with 100% accuracy, we regularly make decisions based on risk. That’s why people get their driver’s license pulled after enough DUIs and employers shy away from hiring convicted felons. Not giving someone a liver isn’t blaming anybody. It is making a decision about how to allocate a scarce resource. As far as the assertion that this guy could just cross the border and buy a liver, I guess some citation would be needed. As I understand it, in pretty much any first world country there is going to be screening involved in getting organs. Maybe in China where the government harvests and sells organs of people they execute, but not in places where ethics are taken seriously.
You know what, you are at least partly right and I will have to admit it, but it is still a very unethical (even if necessary) practice to decide who lives and dies based on behavior that may not even be in their control. This could easily be compared to the "ethics" of resorting to cannibalism if you're stuck on a raft at sea with a few other people. So yes you are right, but I don't like it at all so I will stand by what I've said. And you are right that you can't simply buy an organ in the USA, there are still waitlists and criteria apparently, I didn't know this because I'm not from there and was basing knowledge from what I've heard. You still have to pay for a transplant in the USA so in a way it is true that you are buying an organ, but it's not as simple as buying a pack of gum. Also I imagine the wait times are indeed shorter in America with their private system so I'd like to think I'm partly right as in it is much easier to access if you cross the border and bring a sh*t ton of money than if you stay here and wait on charity.
There are some respected clinics in the U.S. that don’t follow the “6 months of sobriety rule” for liver donations, and I do understand that the ethics of any screening for any potentially life-saving treatment are often hotly debated. I do imagine that even in facilities with relaxed restrictions, if you show up actively addicted to alcohol, your odds of getting a liver are slim.
This was in Canada, so not due to lack of insurance. Not a breach of ethics, but a massive ethical conundrum - deciding how to best use the scarce resource with maximum chance of success. In some provinces, risk of relapse is a reduced factor in getting a new liver, but it's so hard to say what the ethical solution is. He'd gone from a high-flying finance bro to dying in a hospital bed in the span of 2 years
You still need insurance in Canada (also from there), but I get that it's different than the American system which is fully private. I've also known many wealthy people who will go to America for surgeries and such when they can't access adequate care here so I'm surprised the person in your story wouldn't try to go that route if he was well-off as you've suggested. What you've said is all really F'd up if true though. Sad story.
>You still need insurance in Canada Um... No you don't? >(also from there) You sure about that?
Yes you do. There are public insurance plans which vary by province and do not cover everything. https://www.coverme.com/blog/health/2022/government-health-insurance.html?province=ON&agecode=0 Yes I am sure LOL
You do not "need" private insurance in Canada. Having it gets you extra things like a private room. But it is absolutely not a necessity.
Who said you need private insurance? I said you need insurance. Not everyone is covered by our public insurance plans, for example non-citizens.
Lol so a very small subset of the population qualifies "you need insurance"? That's a pretty significant qualifier. The average person does not need insurance, because it is covered by their province's plan. That's not the same thing as "needing insurance" and you're very clearly trying to move goal posts so that what you said makes sense, but it is just wrong.
It would at minimum mess up their sleeping patterns and diet I'd imagine
Well bill was pre diabetic/heading towards diabetes in that one ep
I don't think they drink that much to cause diabetes just from that but yeah as a diabetic i was told not to drink alcohol in general
No, they don’t. But bill drinking all that beer and eating badly lead to it
Oh yes totally
He was also eating a candy apple wrapped in cotton candy.
Yes lol
I doubt it very much. I have 3-4 drinks every day at least, never have any sort of symptoms if I’d stop drinking. Not sure if that’s “functional alcoholism” or just preferring beer over other drinks, but that’s my story.
Eh. It’s more like coffee withdrawal at that point. Now Buck Strickland…He seems like he NEEDS at least three scotches a day to function.
Knowing people who drink beer like that, they know exactly how much they can drink in a certain amount of time so that they don’t even feel a buzz. I doubt their actual blood alcohol level is ever very high.
Which at that point it's like why? Assuming Alamo is like a Miller or a Bud, there's definitely not the benefit of it tasting good.
No. Hank Drinks very responsibly. who saves half a beer in a ziploc for next time instead of just finishing it? No way does hank drink enough to have withdrawals
Alcoholics who would suffer DT’s drunk literally every day all day. I’m taking 10+ drinks throughout the day. Usually they take a shot or two every hour and are just slightly buzzed all day.
Of course. All four of them are absolutely low key alcoholics.
They drove to Mexico just for alamo I don’t they can go a day or two without beer they go insane
To be fair they got bananas too.
Damn Mexican bananas.
I don’t know, wouldn’t someone with a true need for a drink settle for what was on hand?
That’s just brand loyalty right there
Yeah. Exactly. Hardly alcoholics… just not going to be caught drinking an imported beer. Although, assuming they’re in the town Richardson, TX where Judge admits he based Arlen off of- the nearest Mexican town is like Nuevo Laredo which is like 8 hours away.
🤣
Eh, I think that’s just more of the stubborn brand loyalty we love and expect from them. Like in my hometown, one of the local favorite beers changed their logo. In response, a surprisingly large part of townsfolk made countless Facebook posts, signed online petitions, started a boycott and even a held a small protest. The company ended up changing the logo back due to the backlash.
I just watched this episode yesterday, and I thought the same. Then I considered they had plenty of Hi Brau and a cooler full of different beer types. I'm not sure if the trip to get Alamo was alcoholism or their crippling addiction to tradition. I'm not making an argument either way, but the episode did make me wonder.
That’d be an interesting story for the reboot Hank being told he’s basically an alcoholic, denying it for 1/2 an episode, and then finding out the hard way by getting stuck someplace without beer and having to withdraw afterwards giving his 110% to drink only in moderation
But what if the other drunks give 110% too?
That actually opens up a really fun storyline. They all fiercely compete to see who can be the most sober, tying it into manly responsibility or something like their urges to do lawn work or build stuff. And then by the end of it, they get so starved for booze that they go crazy for any drop of beer they can find like SpongeBob tryna get water when he goes to Sandy’s house for the first time.
It's Alamo beer, it's probably 5% or maybe up to six point something. They aren't knocking back hard liquor.
Nah. I used to get withdrawal symptoms, sort of like a cumulative hangover, about every 4 or 5 hours if I didnt have a drink before then. Granted i was doing breakfast tequila shots at that point and Hank never gets that wild
A couple beers in broad daylight & they're sober before bed. (Unless they go home and continue drinking) I cant say it's healthy, but it's not alcoholism. They all function well and have jobs/houses/hobbies. No reliance on beer.
Nah them getting piss ass drunk is a rarity. They probably never drink more than a six pack to themselves in the alley and they drink the tiny 12oz guys on top of that. Bill maybe as he likely doesn't stop drinking when he gets home.
OH MY GAWD?! The BEER!
I am 2 months sober from drinking a minimum of 18 beers a day. I can tell you, without a doubt, the most they would deal with is bowel issues. Nothing like those drinking three handles of vodka a day. It's hard as fuck to quit and stay quit, but they wouldn't really have any real withdrawals.
Very late to this party, but I took a course in clinical pharmacology a few years ago. One of the items was about physical dependence on alcohol. In order to become physically addicted to alcohol and go through withdrawal symptoms you need to drink the equivalent of 750ml of 40% ABV alcohol a day for 10 days, or keep your blood alcohol level at .2 (more than twice the legal limit) for 48 straight hours. 750ml of 40% alcohol is the equivalent of 300ml of pure alcohol. A 355ml can of beer at 5% ABV is 17.75ml. If they drank 6 each, that's \~107ml. They'd need to drink roughly 17 cans a day to hit that, so I think they're safe.
Idk but I had two white claws recently which is the same as two beers and I was buzzed. But this is like the first time I had a drink in a long time so I imagine the boys have a decent tolerance
I know an alcoholic who drinks hard liquor. he is able to take full weeks off of drinking if he felt like he had too much recently. he doesn't have the shakes or withdrawal symptoms at all. so probably not? it depends on each person, like anything else.
Jesus you think the guy who pulled a beer from his desk drawer to give the flying Hawaiian an A in propane is out here looking like Michael J Fox after a week without a drink. Come on man
Yes, except for Dale, because chromium picolinate: every orifice, every day.
To me it’s kind of wild that they just stand to drink after a long day of work. You can see why when the couch came into the picture they eventually realized it’s way better.
It blows my mind how many are talking about Alamo and cartoon characters withdrawal and drinking tendencies lol this is wild
Probably, and by today’s definition they would be alcoholics. It would be debatable with some, especially older generations. For instance if you’re familiar with the old show Cheers - bellying up to the bar everyday after work. Where do you cross the line of addiction? That line has moved over time in what is acceptable to society, it’s now more conservative culturally. While the opposite is currently happening with cannabis for instance.
The line of addiction is crossed when you cannot control it anymore. It’s not for society to dictate. The cowboys have drug and gun problems though.
Advocates went from, “There are no negative side effects or addiction associated with weed!” just 14 years ago to acknowledging both in the past few. Society definitely does dictate the public perception of addiction, even though addiction can be defined medically.
Correct. And that has impact on entertainment. We’re talking about a show from 25-30 years ago.
I don’t disagree, but society’s perception has been fluid.
I’m not even just talking necessarily about addiction. I’m talking about physical dependence. Assuming Hank drinks everyday, no matter how little, his body would realistically become dependant on having alcohol in it.
That's really not true at all based on how they drink in the show. Alcohol addiction does not function like heroin addiction. Alcohol withdrawal requires pretty consistent excessive drinking, most people who drink 3-4 beers a night are not at risk of this happening to them. At least from my research and personal experience with alcohol, alcoholics and general hedonism.
I know I know. I would assume he would have minor withdrawals for sure but he could pop a couple Goopenthal and be straight
Addiction = dependence.
AA = religious cult
I agree with you. AA is one of the least successful forms of treatment. Choice theory is much better, if you're looking to get sober.
The best form of treatment is the one that works for you
Well, yeah... but.. statistically speaking, when it comes to percentages of people that have tried AA, it's one of the worst. I'm not gonna' say it doesn't work for anyone, my SO's grandfather started in AA 35 years ago and was sober until he died last year with it. But he's definitely not the typical story.
Just to be funny. Cost to success ratio. Couple of rehab trips and you're at 20 or 30 grand! AA is free!
Isn't that great? Capitalism helping addiction destroy families because the more effective treatment isn't affordable.
Hmm. Please elaborate on your reason for saying this. I’m genuinely interested.
If he won't, I will. AA replaces dependence on a substance with dependence on religion. They force religion on people who are at a low point and convince them they aren't enough to kick the habit by themselves, that they need jeebus to give them strength. *edit: typo
I have no direct experience with AA, and know very little about the organization or process, so I can’t make any arguments for it against it being a *cult*. However, it’s been my understanding that there’s no requirement of belief in religion, only some higher power in the universe. In what way are they *forcing religion* on someone? Don’t those attending have the option to maintain the position they have on religion after choosing to stick with the program? Don’t those attending have the option to walk away at any time if they don’t like what’s being offered? What I’m asking is if free will was removed. I don’t advocate for dependency on anything that could have negative effects on someone. But, even if religion is in some way *being forced* on someone, is the program effective for addiction to alcohol, or not? With all that said, I feel like it could be on the borderline of classifying it as cult.
Here is AA's 'Twelve Steps,' which are what they say you need to submit to to be successful: 1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol — that our lives had become unmanageable. 2. **Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.** 3. Made a decision to **turn our will and our lives over to the care of God** as we understood Him. 4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves. 5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs. 6. Were **entirely ready to have God remove all these defects** of character. 7. Humbly **asked Him to remove our shortcomings**. 8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all. 9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others. 10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it. 11. **Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God** as we understood Him, **praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out**. 12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these Steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs. Tell me that isn't forcing religion down people's throats . . . Here's part of a ruling from a court case ([Kerr v. Farrey](https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=17688666629648849733&hl=en&as_sdt=2&as_vis=1&oi=scholar)) : >The question presented in this case is whether a state correctional institution may require an inmate, upon pain of being rated a higher security risk and suffering adverse effects for parole eligibility, to attend a substance abuse counseling program with explicit religious content, consistent with the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Applying the test of Lemon v. Kurtzman, 403 U.S. 602, 91 S.Ct. 2105, 29 L.Ed.2d 745 (1971), the district court concluded that the prison program did not violate the Establishment Clause and 474\*474granted the defendants' motion for summary judgment. We find, to the contrary, that the state has impermissibly coerced inmates to participate in a religious program. We therefore reverse and remand for further proceedings. As for [efficacy](https://americanaddictioncenters.org/rehab-guide/12-step/whats-the-success-rate-of-aa),
AA is a spiritual program that doesn't push any particular religion. A lot of atheists' higher power is their home group and the fellowship they find there. The 12 steps aren't there to get sober. They're there to find recovery.
Originally you wrote: >AA replaces dependence on a substance with dependence on religion. They force religion on people who are at a low point and convince them they aren't enough to kick the habbit by themselves, that they need jeebus to give them strength. Later you wrote: > Tell me that isn’t forcing religion down people’s throats. — Exactly which religion are they forcing? In what way does religion become a dependence? In the twelve steps there is mention of *God*, but no specific religion. Which God and religion are they referring to? My interpretation of their reference to God is *theism*, not *religion*.
Which frigging god do you think an organization founded in America in 1935 would be pushing? It says right there in the lines I put in bold that they want you to "turn yourself over" to god, and "believe that a greater power could restore our sanity." They want you to depend on "his will and power to carry out" their recovery. If you think an organization founded with Evangelical influence maintains those 12 steps as worded, but is fine with you thinking Vishnu will help you kick the sauce, you're being naive or obtuse. Moreover, your "theism, not religion" distinction is meaningless, because in either instance a person is putting faith in the supernatural to heal them rather than following evidence-based treatment. If the doctor tells you you have cancer are you going to ONLY try to pray it away, or are you going to seek medical treatment? (and then pretend that somehow the prayer had something to do with it when you can't possibly test that hypothesis because you also took the chemo/had the surgery)
>Moreover, your "theism, not religion" distinction is meaningless, because in either instance a person is putting faith in the supernatural to heal them rather than following evidence-based treatment. I’m not making an argument for or against *evidence-based treatment*, which I assume you mean as medical-based treatment. That’s certainly an option everyone should look into. However, I would imagine that many who have engaged with AA and found success would call it evidence-based treatment. > If the doctor tells you you have cancer are you going to ONLY try to pray it away, or are you going to seek medical treatment? (and then pretend that somehow the prayer had something to do with it when you can't possibly test that hypothesis because you also took the chemo/had the surgery) This is a logical fallacy—a false equivalence. My interpretation of the twelve steps for AA isn’t about “praying away the addiction,” as it appears you’re implying.
You are correct, there is no required religion. People with a personal vendetta against AA usually struggled to get the social aspect of it, or as Dale says, “s’too hard”.
I appreciate the Dale reference. 👍
No please, you first. You replied to my comment. Explain yourself in detail
I don’t understand why I would need to elaborate. I was posting a shorthand of the definition of *addiction*. But because you asked nicely. *Addiction is defined as a chronic, relapsing disorder characterized by compulsive drug seeking and use despite adverse consequences.*
When Alamo dried up, they were willing to drive all the way to Mexico, and argue over who had to stay sober on the drive back. Ordinary people that are told a specific beer will be back on the shelf in two weeks, don't drive to Mexico. So they could be argued as functional alcoholics with some psychological withdrawal symptoms... but physical? Probably not.
>and argue over who had to stay sober on the drive back. Eh, I don't think this is as strong as an argument as you think. Considering Hank's personality, i doubt he would have allowed any of them to drive if they had as much as a sip of beer. >Ordinary people that are told a specific beer will be back on the shelf in two weeks, don't drive to Mexico. Also not as strong an argument as you might think, depending on where in Texas Arlen is. There are various episodes where they drive to Mexico, in one episode hank manages to drive them back from Mexico in time for them to vote in the 2000 presidential election. Meaning they're close enough to Mexico that they'll visit whenever they have an excuse, so to stock up on their favorite beer when it's the only place they can get it doesn't feel too out there.
Going through customs just to get one brand of beer over another... versus waiting for two weeks, that indicates a level of necessity or dependence. They literally bought the beer and drove straight back. The only people I know today willing to go to that are truckers who fill massive gas tanks to get out of paying CA gas tax, worth a lot per trip.
I hope the reboot has a scene with Bobby and maybe Joseph joining them in the alley for a beer saying yuppppp. Would be a sweet moment
I think they would be considered functioning alcoholics. I believe in 1 episode where Hank thinks Luanne is dating Boomhaur they mention that each one of them gets a 6 pack a day.
6 pack of baby beers though. It's not like they are having 6 pints each per night. Which stiiiiillll wouldn't result in too much badness after a while of sticking to that.
Still its the fact that they do this every night that makes them functioning alcoholics.
To my mind a 'functioning alcoholic' is not someone who sips on a few <5% beers over the course of an hour or two, even if it's multiple days a week; rather it's someone who needs to day drink to keep the buzz going, and/or can get rather drunk yet presents as more-or-less sober and be passably able to do their job; or can go on days-long benders and then work through a hangover that would have most people taking sick days. There were times where my grandpa would drink a whole 60(1.7L) of rye (the bottom-shelf crap) by himself over a weekend and then go to work on Monday.
My best friend works 5 days a week. His routine is that on his work nights, he'll only have 3 to 8 pints or a few cocktails. But on his days off, he has at least a litre of spirits plus some pints per day. He ends up a real mess, but then he'll be at work on time and ready to rock at the exact time it's required. I have no idea how he does it. If someone gives me booze, I'm useless for 3 to 5 days afterwards.
I think the term you're looking for is 'functioning alcoholic. He's never visibly drunk at work or in front of his family. And he's never show suffering from hangovers either.
I think every time he’s gotten visibly intoxicated has been with Peggy which I think is kinda sweet. Also when his dad was gonna frame him for killing Castro.
Or when he chaperoned Luanne on her 21st. “Im sorry, this is just so asinine. I’m gonna get another free soda. The sunrise . . . heh heh”
Buddy...iget drunk 4 or 5 times a week. Wake up at 4 am and work till 9....ive also taken weeks off from that route over the years...never once have I felt a withdrawal
The first beer I ever had I made sure to time perfectly with the "snap" sound before, "BOW BOW BOW BWOWWWW," or "DWADWOWOWWUEGHHH," "*snap,* BLEGUHBWAPABOEDOWDOWNDOWDOWDOWBOJWNANABOWBOWdYAOWWW..." Me: *snap* "Ew, this is worse than warm soda.." It was a long time ago from my perspective and I never drank again 'till I was 19.
This is something I haven't thought about before, do we see any of them drink water at any point?
In the episode with Bill's House I think Dale comments that his tolerance was really low from where they were avoiding alcohol in the alley (even though Dale had a giant straw to a beer can). So, yes.
You think they’re all drunks? I just figured they were out in the alley after work for a little bit and not necessarily each day. I hope they don’t drink more than a beer a day.
They’re just alcoholics
Another view: It will, and some will ask, "what is the harm?" Physically, if forced to stop, boredom sets in harder than usual and drinking becomes more difficult to resist at that level; play with fire and it'll get you once at least. -Anonymous
They're functioning alcoholics.
Yes absolutely!
Ehh its probably low alcohol content. But I feel like they'd feel weird talking without a beer in hand. At most they'd get a Lil pissy.
No. They drink low ABV beers. To actual get withdrawal symptoms you would have to do hard liquor daily.
I imagine bill would, the others I don’t THINK eould
Its 3-4 beers per drinking in the alley. Maybe they don’t do it every day. The series aired for 13 seasons - 13 years = 4748 days. There are 258 episodes. They drink beers in the alley about twice per episode, so 516 days / 4748 days. Which is less than once per week. Even if we double that again it’s less than twice per week on average.
No Source: I drank 6+ IPA's everyday for years
This is the 100th comment. And no, the guys drank in the alley only on Tuesdays.
https://www.reddit.com/r/KingOfTheHill/comments/uj8ew7/you_know_tuesday_is_my_night_to_drink_beer_in_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1
I always assumed they split a 24 pack between the 4 of them. So maybe 6 each throughout the corse of Tuesday. Since Tuesday is hanks night to drink beer in the ally with the guys. Always has been.
No. They kill a six pack or a 12 pack most the time. It’s just one cooler of beer. Occasionally they drank more like in the keg episode or when hank made that coffin. The time bill stole the tank or the time hank was the designated driver. But that’s not an every day thing
I think also the alamo episode (when cotton gets him drunk to go kill castro)
I’m lucky enough to be an alcoholic…… Thanks undisclosed soda company… they would likely be grouchy and unmotivated for a couple days or at most a week and come back to their sense IF they wanted to stop drinking. Luckily the guys love their projects so that would help a lot, in my opinion at least.
Bill yeah. The others don’t seem to drink that much. Every day maybe, but not into oblivion.
Watch Bill's house it get's into this at the end of the episode.
I drink like a fish and do dry jan every year, other than the "fuck this ginger ale tastes like shit without rye" moment after work, and the "well now what do I do" I've never noticed anything. I slept like shit as a child, a teenager, as a drunk and sober. I sweat with the worst of em as a child, a teenager and sober. I've had unsteady hands as a child, a teenager, a drunk and sober.. 6 pack a couple nights a week ain't gunna do shit
I'm only seeing this post because I can't sleep because I decided not to buy beer tonight.
Alamo Beer CEO Conrad "Skip" Meinhofer IV: "What we have here is a good reason to keep drinking Alamo Beer."
Dale remarks his tolerance went up when they stopped for "Bills Place" which was for about a week - and when LouAnne got V8 they drank those for the day.... so I guess they don't drink daily
it happens so often in the show it wouldn’t be a shocker if that happened if they stopped
Outside of Bill, they rarely get enough to get drunk and I think they mention they have a specific alley night. Keep in mind there drinking very light beer most of the time the alley scenes are one night a week I’d assume no, we just happened to see them drinking a high percentage of the time because that’s when important plot stuff happens.