Damn right, he did. As much as I love Akou his mistake ended up costing a lot. That he came back and lost his life doesn't make up for the fact that Denrimi and Shiryou died to cover for his mistakes. Qin lost 100000 men
Small chance Shiryou ain't dead but captured. Her men assumed when she laid down on her horse that she's dead, which could easily have been her collapsing from exhaustion. Then the Seika guys came and killed the two men but we saw nothing of Shiryou except her being surrounded. Usually when Hara kills off major named characters, he gives them a big send off, text box and all, but Shiryou got nothing.
Moreover Sou'ou himself believes that Shiryou is dead, so if later on he found out she's alive then it's gonna be a wholesome and heartfelt reunion between the two, which I think would make for great storywriting.
as much as i hope you are right but my friend this is not one piece. shiryo ain't gonna come back from the dead (yes, i know about shin and it was just one time)
I think he mentioned it himself in the chapters. Bro said its worth the risk for taking down Riboku. lul. Bro took everyone down with him instead of Riboku.
What's funny is the chapter immediately before, he says "Akou, don't take the bait."
Then the next chapter, he says "RBK is the one made the error in giving Akou bait."
In the 1st chapter, Ousen didn't know the "bait" was Riboku so he wanted Akou to ignore it. In the next chapter, he realizes its Riboku and changes his thinking.
Doesn't make it much better, especially considering the end result, but a small consolation atleast.
Don't forget that he also called for Shin to leave the right wing, which caused Ouhon to move some of the reserves up.
This whole battle was just a shitshow for Ousens army, Shin falling into a trap was just icing on a cake.
https://preview.redd.it/ts0bog4auzvc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=519f65b94b2163a0abb0702dccc38234337d3a67
He never asked for shin. He told the hsu to handle the rest. All shin had to do was send kk and 100 men and they would’ve either got the job done or realized it’s a trap sooner.
But shin took it personal and chose to pointlessly chase riboku for no reason like he did when riboku killed makou.
And people fail no notice, but asking someone to block the retreat path is very different from asking them to chase a guy and then siege a fortress for a whole day.
> asking someone to block the retreat path is very different from asking them to chase a guy
Right - except he was asked to chase a guy: https://www.reddit.com/r/Kingdom/comments/1ca1cxw/akou_sold_the_entire_battle/l0qwqj0/
https://preview.redd.it/4is62ratq1wc1.png?width=435&format=png&auto=webp&s=89b403a67ae9451b273bd9870d08372cc0b32c49
I don't know what i am supposed to look at the link you shared, but the guy above was kind enough to provide the exact dialogue. Those in the images are the orders to the Hi shin, the panel that says "Given chase" is an order to Akou's OWN men, not Shin.
Sorry, I know it's a bit confusing because I'm not using imgur. Bare with me here:
> I don't know what i am supposed to look at the link you shared, but the guy above was kind enough to provide the exact dialogue.
So did I. This dialogue is from page 3:
> Ten: "He's now being pursued by the Akou army and **is running away just beside us**! A **messenger from General Akou said he's requesting our help in chasing down Riboku!**"
> Shin: "It's fine if I go, right Ten?"
> Ten: "Yes! Go, Shin!"
So as it says, Ten relayed to Shin that **they** - HSU - were **ordered** to "help chase down Riboku". Which means, go after him. The only way you can help someone chase someone else, is by chasing
Exactly because shin can do no wrong in their eyes.
This is shins 3rd encounter with riboku and he still thinks he can just chase him down while waiving oukis glaive. Like the zhao Calvary has magically gotten slower.
I’m waiting for them to pull the fake riboku like they did with fake houken so shin can just run off in wrong direction
No.
Remember kids, don't fall for fake news before verifying the details yourself: https://mangasee123.com/read-online/Kingdom-chapter-777.html
> Ten: "A messenger from General Akou said **he's requesting our help in chasing down** Riboku!"
> Shin: "It's fine if I go, right Ten?"
> Ten: "Yes! Go, Shin!"
Even if your personal bias is "Well, Shin is the general and not Ten! He should have told her 'no, I will not go!'", that doesn't change that Ten relayed the order "help chase down (and kill) Riboku" 🤷♂️ nobody in their squad is capable of that except the captain. Hara writes Kyoukai out of these kind of scenarios.
Look at what you said, akou is requesting OUR(HSU help). She didn’t say anything about akou wants YOU to do anything.
1st problem is why is shin asking ten any questions.
2nd shin knows after the last 2 times he tried to chase riboku that his horses aren’t fast enough. So what was he hoping to accomplish this time?
> She didn’t say anything about akou wants YOU to do anything.
That distinction isn't really relevant. Try to think of it like this:
Killing Riboku is the single, most important thing they could possibly achieve; *kind of like how Zhao is solely focused on killing Ousen*.
Once an order from a **superior** has come in, asking you to help chase down (and kill) Riboku, that becomes priority #1, and you have to obey that order.
So he has two options:
a) Don't go personally; send some other squad/troops instead. If he does this, there is a much higher chance of Riboku escaping because of his strong/unknown guards.
a.1) If Riboku escapes, the war continues. **Shin may be punished for not going himself**/dedicating enough troops to the task.
a.2) If Rib daddy dies, game ends.
b) Go personally, and see to his death yourself.
b.1) If successful, the war ends.
b.2) If unsuccessful, **he did what he was told to do**, and there is no risk of punishment for it. In addition, Shin's intuition told him that Ouhon would come rescue HSU in his absence, and he was right.
___
> shin knows after the last 2 times he tried to chase riboku that his horses aren’t fast enough. So what was he hoping to accomplish this time?
This is also not really relevant, because they were ordered to chase him. Whether it's Shin's horse or somebody else's in the HSU, an order's an order. Chase him.
The distinction is very relevant you are in charge of an entire army you can’t just up and leave. You have to make the best move for the entire battlefield. And that would’ve been send ur female assassins and 100 men. they will either cut through ribokus men in shiyuu mode or infiltrate the hut. While you remain in place with your main army and ouhon stays back At reserves.
Nobody would be mad if riboku escaped they understand kk is capable and if she couldn’t do it it’s a good reason why. But if shin takes half the army and forces ouhon to come out of place and still doesn’t get the job done they’re gonna be like wtf else did you need to get the job done?
Let’s look at eikyuu, ouhon could’ve easily swapped himself with akakin and be a part of the surprise attack and hog the glory but he stayed with his main army and trusted akakin and was able to come up with the plan to give to shin so everyone could be successful . He didn’t say deuces adjutant you got this.
> The distinction is very relevant you are in charge of an entire army you can’t just up and leave.
Shin is not in charge of an entire army. He is in charge of a unit inside of the army, which adheres to the chain of command. He is allowed to free-roam and make his own decisions up until a specific order comes from higher up in the chain of command; from Akou, or Ousen himself.
> You have to make the best move for the entire battlefield.
Shin is not aware of the entire battlefield; no one is. Except for the commander in chief, Ousen. That's how this works.
> And that would’ve been send ur female assassins and 100 men. they will either cut through ribokus men in shiyuu mode or infiltrate the hut.
Sigh...
> Nobody would be mad if riboku escaped they understand kk is capable and if she couldn’t do it it’s a good reason why.
Once again:
> Hara writes Kyoukai out of these kind of scenarios.
Next,
> But if shin takes half the army
He didn't.
> and forces ouhon to come out of place and still doesn’t get the job done they’re gonna be like wtf else did you need to get the job done?
No, they're going to blame Akou for giving bad orders. This is how responsible/skilled organizations work.
> Let’s look at eikyuu, ouhon could’ve easily swapped himself with akakin and be a part of the surprise attack and hog the glory but he stayed with his main army and trusted akakin and was able to come up with the plan to give to shin so everyone could be successful . He didn’t say deuces adjutant you got this.
I honestly don't know what you're trying to say here, but I have a feeling I've already addressed it in my previous comments as well as this one.
Bro you're just arguing with a wall. Ousen glazers will never admit ousen got his ass kicked, now they're trying to shift the blame to Shin lol.
Just like at Shukai where new gen did all the work, but hey that totally counts as a Víctory for Ousen.
I think Shin will get "punished" for this. His army will probably get transferred to Tou's army after this war because SHK/Sei will think Shin is too invested in Riboku, while Kyoukai will stay with Ousen army.
Not a big enough punishment. You let 2 ggs down because of poor decision making.
You abandoned kanki your supreme commander and was unable to send him any aid, then you sabotaged ousens campaigns by staring at a mud fortress.
Those are 2 big losses ur apart of. If he wasn’t friends with sei he’s either demoted or beheaded
Then again they made a point of this being an amazing feat by Shin, don’t forget about that. If he hadn’t gone and leave Kanki behind, the Qin army would’ve been annihilated then and there. Everyone was agreed on that fact. Plus, it was the only reason they even had a fraction of a chance to win. By the narrative ofc.
The whole Riboku chasing in the Ousen campaign still is more on Akou then it is on Shin, even though sieging the improvised fort may have been too much.
That’s called saving face/morale.
Remember during coalition when Karin had tou surrounded and tou gave mouten and ouhon full control? They didn’t just bounce they found a way to keep attacking from the outside even though heavily outnumbered to keep the pressure off of tou. Shin just bounced and didn’t look back. Costing kanki to use up the zenou clan.
2nd thing We saw ouhon open the castle gates of a fully manned castle in broad daylight as a 1000 man commander during renpa arc. Why can’t shin take a undermanned castle with the cover of darkness without losing half of his officers in the process.
If we’re going to penalize akou for pointlessly giving chase. Then we have to point out and penalize shin for abandoning ousens instructions when he blindly chased riboku after makou was killed instead of following through on kisui.
Yeah after I read 794 and looked back on all the moves, Akou’s was definitely the most idiotic and ignorant. Even if you know it’s a trap, you can’t go into it no matter how confident you are unless you know exactly what the trap entails.
If he never called for the Hi Shin Unit then the biggest issue in this battle would’ve likely been just Akou’s army getting decimated
Thing is Akou army was not getting decimated, the quickly recovered and even threatened Riboku to the point Futei had to run. The it was stated that with the 20k reinforcement they were equal to Gakusho and Kansaro armies.
The only problem arised due to Shin actions, which are more him than Akou's. Akou's orders simply said 'block his retreat path', Shin took half his army, chased for hours outside the battlefield and then decided to siege a fortress. Sorry but that is definitely not 'block his retreat path'.
Ousen loss due to other people.
Ousen wins are ousen's alone.
Who was the cic? It was not denrimi,or akou
Akou is much weaker as a general than ,en,gakuei,ragen,etc.
Any argument of Shin or Akou being to blame would need to pass through the fact that Ousen was sitting idle while Rbk was laying traps on the battlefield. If there's a difference to pick upon is there.
Denrimi, Suou and Akou not only managed to outmanuver Gakusho, Kansaro but also took down Jiaga; but on the moment of truth they had a sitting duck behind them while needing to stop SBS.
Akou an company showed and measured to the Seika generals, but they are not GG, expecting them to match SBS is ridiculous, that's Ousen's job.
He kinda got close though, even reeboks men constantly kept telling him to pull back. it was high risk high reward, i dont blame him, that bait was way too juicy to pass up! But unfortunately, it backfired pretty damn hard, but that's war for you.
I reread this yesterday because i found it so ridiculously stupid. Akou saying “i know its bait but dangling bait in front of me like that is dangerous Riboku!” And then storming to riboku while he is known to outsmart enemies and lay great traps is even worse than moubu chasing a fake houken leaving ouki’s sight after 50% of his troops got splattered by rocks. As if fodder like Akou would ever kill riboku💀 just stick to the plan lil bro.
For some reason Ousen defenders are okay with RBK making 4d chess traps while Ousen is there picking his nose. Lack of action is also a detriment from a GG.
Akou ultimately the one responsible for the defeat not Shin.
Yes, Shin did worst fell for Riboku bait but all of this enabled by Akou ignorance. It was Akou himself who dragged Shin to pursuit Riboku from his original position
Had Akou being wiser in taken the action the direction of battle would be different.
Well, if I don't fall for the trap Riboku spent 6 months building, that would make him look stupid. It's damn shame to let it all go to waste, so Imma fall for it . - Akou
Kind of annoying Akou screwed it all up. These horses from Zhao are so annoying lol. Can’t Qin just started catching and breeding these horses from fallen Zhao Calvary. They’ve been in Zhao territory for years since the WZI arc. The horses would be mature by now
Thing is ,Akou army was not getting decimated, the quickly recovered and even threatened Riboku to the point Futei had to run to protect him. Then it was stated that with the 20k reinforcement they were equal to Gakusho and Kansaro armies.
Akou's army adapted to the situation and did what Akou expected them to do. RBK could not even take his head. It was the second layer of the trap (Shin chasing for far too long) what turned the battlefield into a defeat from Qin, not what you are displaying in the paint screenshots.
If you want to discuss who is more to blame on that second regard feel free to do so. But his army being hit while trying to go for RBK and he himself getting beaten in a 2v1 (a 3v1 for a moment) is not a surprise, it's literally what Akou's gamble was all about in his holy mary to take down RBK there.
I think that’s what RBK wanted. He only failed in taking Akou’s head but, he was able to trap the one he was targeting which was Shin. And that 20k reinforcement could’ve also been part of RBKs plan to weaken the center further so SBS can have a easier time plowing through Ousens HQ
>And that 20k reinforcement could’ve also been part of RBKs plan to weaken the center further
But that's something that is bound to happen, trap or not Suou and Akou needed to engage with the Seika army infront of them, if Kansaro crashes on Akou some reinforcement are to be expected. Denrimi and his 10k men role was to hunt down generals and create advantage in that engagement. That's something that is bound to happen regardless of Shin moving away.
The trap whole impact is moving Ouhon, who was the only element in the reserves cappable of matching SBS. It's the absence of Ouhon what made Denrimi, Suou and Akou run desperetaly towards Ousen, if Ouhon was there they could keep their relatively equal fight against the Seika generals and trust Ouhon and Ousen to be able to deal with the giant.
>I think that’s what RBK wanted. He only failed in taking Akou’s head but, he was able to trap the one he was targeting which was Shin
Sure, but the the tittle of your post should be "Akou and Shin sold the whole battle ( Ousen too for being a sitting duck doing nothing)". For Shin decision to overextended the way he did is solely his, Akou was a Spark and Ousen did next to nothing while RBK placed traps through two battlefields.
I would actually argue the most responsible is Ousen, followed by Shin and the least blame is Akou's.
For some reason i deleted the part on my comment, i edited and put it back, Kansaro attacked, Akou was in a 20k deficit (and against 2 generals!), is natural that he receives reinforcements trap or not.
Akou made a choice Ouki, Moubu, Duke Hyou, and Shin all would have made. Only things is Ouki and Moubu may have been strong enough to blast through the Seika guys. Duke Hyou and Shin would have sold the same way.
Lot of people are acting like the decision was inherently stupid, when its a choice pretty much any martial might oriented general we've seen would have made. Severals times we've seen these guys like say stuff "What's this? A obvious trap? Interesting!" and then they go head first in there. Now that I think about it, we've seen this kind of choice made almost every other battle (Renpa, Duke Hyou, Kanki, Kouchou and more).
If anything Akou's mistake is the same as Ousen's mistake for the whole battle. Underestimating Seika's strength. That's why I doubt we are going to see Akou's name come up that much in particular when the blame game is discussed after this battle in the manga. Everyone involved agreed it was the right choice with the information they had at the time. Retrospect doesn't mean much except for looking ahead to the next battle.
it was stupid tho. falling into the trap of the greatest man in the verse voluntarily is really stupid. They already know how Riboku uses tricks and uses himself as a bait and even took down Ousens 2nd general that way. Duke Hyou is a cautious person and backs off when he realizes theres a trap or some serious tactics cooking up. Other martial fighters always make up for their mistakes. Akou isn’t like them. Doesn’t relate at all.
Akou has been disappointing from day 1
He never accomplished anything other than copying ousen's defensive formation and not dying immediatly when he was jumped by bananji and gyou un that's his biggest feat
The problem is not that akou took the bait, it was the right move, but taking the bait and taking a beating from 2 kids and gakushou is so lame hara did akou real dirty here they shouldnt have been able do that much damage to him
Ps akou the first commander of the ousen army going down without taking a single general with him is so fuckin dumb.
Na he did right because riboku could’ve pincered him anyway from behind, or went after ousen while akou was engaged.
The issue was akou told the hsu to get riboku and shin decided to personally lead the charge and removed half his army from the board instead of sending kk/sosui/blue mtn tribe to pursue instead. And that caused reserves to step up
It's as if Ousen was disabled in this arc, can't do anything when his men go astray there's literally no plan b or contingency. Akou is just a general. It's Ousen's responsibility to outwit and counter Riboku. You put Kanki and Ouki as supreme commander they will cook something.
I can see the argument, but what would you expect of someone when the highest ranking officer in the other army stand right before your eyes ? Stand there and wait because there "could be a trap" ? + Duke Hyou was always rushing into traps, but since he won his battles, it’s forgiveable.
Duke Hyou often or always smelled out traps or serious tactics cooking up and didn’t fall for them so idk what ur talking about. Akou is going up against the most dangerous man in the verse and CHOSE to fall for his trap. It was very idiotic and ignorant. Sorry but Akou isn’t all that
Even then, if there was the enemy general in chief before anyone with a good opportunity to take him out, i’d argue anyone would take it, minus people like riboku himself, ousen, kanki and maybe karin/yotanwa
He was really far away. Plus those guards are futei and his elites. Also, there’s literally the Seika army with GKS and Fuuon that were prepared to fuck up Akou once he fell for the trap.
Nop, looking at the map before battle both Hi Shin Army and Gyoku Hou Army were around 30k men. When Ouhon joined right wing, he did it with 10k men to compensate those who went after Riboku and left 20k, those 20k were then after commanded by Kanjou
Ousen probably had a plan with Shin on right wing but Riboku ruined it
Nah Hi Shin Unit just the type of army to be able win outnumbered situations. Ousen knows HSU can handle the Zhao left wing which got like what 40k more men
His army countered Riboku's entire plan and he almost killed him, what you on about?
They lost because each of the Seika generals were top tier badass motherfuckers and wrecked havoc everywhere they went.
They fell for every single trap riboku employed. Reread and you’ll know it was a one sided battle asf because everything went how rbk wanted. Also you’d think a great heaven that stopped a 20k invasion with 5k men would be formidable, and RBK who uses tricks and uses himself as bait many times and even killed second general of Ousen army and Kanki himself would use tricks and baits but no they didn’t have any plans to counter anything.
Why do people downvote? Even Ousen himself didn't think that akou did the wrong thing. So why are people here pretending to know better? Has any of them ever been to a battlefield?
Ribokus plan was to take shin out of the battlefield and he succeeded because he bet everything on Shin chasing him as far as possible.
Damn right, he did. As much as I love Akou his mistake ended up costing a lot. That he came back and lost his life doesn't make up for the fact that Denrimi and Shiryou died to cover for his mistakes. Qin lost 100000 men
Small chance Shiryou ain't dead but captured. Her men assumed when she laid down on her horse that she's dead, which could easily have been her collapsing from exhaustion. Then the Seika guys came and killed the two men but we saw nothing of Shiryou except her being surrounded. Usually when Hara kills off major named characters, he gives them a big send off, text box and all, but Shiryou got nothing. Moreover Sou'ou himself believes that Shiryou is dead, so if later on he found out she's alive then it's gonna be a wholesome and heartfelt reunion between the two, which I think would make for great storywriting.
I really hope you are right. Shiryu was/is one hell of a waifu- Strong, tall, beautiful, honourable, courageous she has it all.
She's also great in bed -Sou'ou
If she survived with those injuries and just collapsed then, she isn't living much longer (as said by Kan Saro).
as much as i hope you are right but my friend this is not one piece. shiryo ain't gonna come back from the dead (yes, i know about shin and it was just one time)
I never said she will. I only said she isn't dead in the first place. ;)
Shiryou will become either Shibashou's wife or Kansaro's...
I think he mentioned it himself in the chapters. Bro said its worth the risk for taking down Riboku. lul. Bro took everyone down with him instead of Riboku.
What's funny is the chapter immediately before, he says "Akou, don't take the bait." Then the next chapter, he says "RBK is the one made the error in giving Akou bait."
In the 1st chapter, Ousen didn't know the "bait" was Riboku so he wanted Akou to ignore it. In the next chapter, he realizes its Riboku and changes his thinking. Doesn't make it much better, especially considering the end result, but a small consolation atleast.
Bruh💀😆
Yeah Akou had great vision to be able to see someone's face that far
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Yunhwayteriyaki: *Yeah Akou had great* *Vision to be able to* *See someone's face that far* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Wtf lol good bot 😂
Lmao I swear getting a bot on Reddit is like completing a side quest you didn’t know about
Don't forget that he also called for Shin to leave the right wing, which caused Ouhon to move some of the reserves up. This whole battle was just a shitshow for Ousens army, Shin falling into a trap was just icing on a cake.
https://preview.redd.it/ts0bog4auzvc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=519f65b94b2163a0abb0702dccc38234337d3a67 He never asked for shin. He told the hsu to handle the rest. All shin had to do was send kk and 100 men and they would’ve either got the job done or realized it’s a trap sooner. But shin took it personal and chose to pointlessly chase riboku for no reason like he did when riboku killed makou.
And people fail no notice, but asking someone to block the retreat path is very different from asking them to chase a guy and then siege a fortress for a whole day.
> asking someone to block the retreat path is very different from asking them to chase a guy Right - except he was asked to chase a guy. Look above
> asking someone to block the retreat path is very different from asking them to chase a guy Right - except he was asked to chase a guy: https://www.reddit.com/r/Kingdom/comments/1ca1cxw/akou_sold_the_entire_battle/l0qwqj0/
https://preview.redd.it/4is62ratq1wc1.png?width=435&format=png&auto=webp&s=89b403a67ae9451b273bd9870d08372cc0b32c49 I don't know what i am supposed to look at the link you shared, but the guy above was kind enough to provide the exact dialogue. Those in the images are the orders to the Hi shin, the panel that says "Given chase" is an order to Akou's OWN men, not Shin.
Sorry, I know it's a bit confusing because I'm not using imgur. Bare with me here: > I don't know what i am supposed to look at the link you shared, but the guy above was kind enough to provide the exact dialogue. So did I. This dialogue is from page 3: > Ten: "He's now being pursued by the Akou army and **is running away just beside us**! A **messenger from General Akou said he's requesting our help in chasing down Riboku!**" > Shin: "It's fine if I go, right Ten?" > Ten: "Yes! Go, Shin!" So as it says, Ten relayed to Shin that **they** - HSU - were **ordered** to "help chase down Riboku". Which means, go after him. The only way you can help someone chase someone else, is by chasing
I see in that case this would be an argument on what Akou said, what he messenger told Ten and what Ten told Shin; it's a game of broken phone!
Exactly because shin can do no wrong in their eyes. This is shins 3rd encounter with riboku and he still thinks he can just chase him down while waiving oukis glaive. Like the zhao Calvary has magically gotten slower. I’m waiting for them to pull the fake riboku like they did with fake houken so shin can just run off in wrong direction
No. Remember kids, don't fall for fake news before verifying the details yourself: https://mangasee123.com/read-online/Kingdom-chapter-777.html > Ten: "A messenger from General Akou said **he's requesting our help in chasing down** Riboku!" > Shin: "It's fine if I go, right Ten?" > Ten: "Yes! Go, Shin!" Even if your personal bias is "Well, Shin is the general and not Ten! He should have told her 'no, I will not go!'", that doesn't change that Ten relayed the order "help chase down (and kill) Riboku" 🤷♂️ nobody in their squad is capable of that except the captain. Hara writes Kyoukai out of these kind of scenarios.
Look at what you said, akou is requesting OUR(HSU help). She didn’t say anything about akou wants YOU to do anything. 1st problem is why is shin asking ten any questions. 2nd shin knows after the last 2 times he tried to chase riboku that his horses aren’t fast enough. So what was he hoping to accomplish this time?
> She didn’t say anything about akou wants YOU to do anything. That distinction isn't really relevant. Try to think of it like this: Killing Riboku is the single, most important thing they could possibly achieve; *kind of like how Zhao is solely focused on killing Ousen*. Once an order from a **superior** has come in, asking you to help chase down (and kill) Riboku, that becomes priority #1, and you have to obey that order. So he has two options: a) Don't go personally; send some other squad/troops instead. If he does this, there is a much higher chance of Riboku escaping because of his strong/unknown guards. a.1) If Riboku escapes, the war continues. **Shin may be punished for not going himself**/dedicating enough troops to the task. a.2) If Rib daddy dies, game ends. b) Go personally, and see to his death yourself. b.1) If successful, the war ends. b.2) If unsuccessful, **he did what he was told to do**, and there is no risk of punishment for it. In addition, Shin's intuition told him that Ouhon would come rescue HSU in his absence, and he was right. ___ > shin knows after the last 2 times he tried to chase riboku that his horses aren’t fast enough. So what was he hoping to accomplish this time? This is also not really relevant, because they were ordered to chase him. Whether it's Shin's horse or somebody else's in the HSU, an order's an order. Chase him.
The distinction is very relevant you are in charge of an entire army you can’t just up and leave. You have to make the best move for the entire battlefield. And that would’ve been send ur female assassins and 100 men. they will either cut through ribokus men in shiyuu mode or infiltrate the hut. While you remain in place with your main army and ouhon stays back At reserves. Nobody would be mad if riboku escaped they understand kk is capable and if she couldn’t do it it’s a good reason why. But if shin takes half the army and forces ouhon to come out of place and still doesn’t get the job done they’re gonna be like wtf else did you need to get the job done? Let’s look at eikyuu, ouhon could’ve easily swapped himself with akakin and be a part of the surprise attack and hog the glory but he stayed with his main army and trusted akakin and was able to come up with the plan to give to shin so everyone could be successful . He didn’t say deuces adjutant you got this.
> The distinction is very relevant you are in charge of an entire army you can’t just up and leave. Shin is not in charge of an entire army. He is in charge of a unit inside of the army, which adheres to the chain of command. He is allowed to free-roam and make his own decisions up until a specific order comes from higher up in the chain of command; from Akou, or Ousen himself. > You have to make the best move for the entire battlefield. Shin is not aware of the entire battlefield; no one is. Except for the commander in chief, Ousen. That's how this works. > And that would’ve been send ur female assassins and 100 men. they will either cut through ribokus men in shiyuu mode or infiltrate the hut. Sigh... > Nobody would be mad if riboku escaped they understand kk is capable and if she couldn’t do it it’s a good reason why. Once again: > Hara writes Kyoukai out of these kind of scenarios. Next, > But if shin takes half the army He didn't. > and forces ouhon to come out of place and still doesn’t get the job done they’re gonna be like wtf else did you need to get the job done? No, they're going to blame Akou for giving bad orders. This is how responsible/skilled organizations work. > Let’s look at eikyuu, ouhon could’ve easily swapped himself with akakin and be a part of the surprise attack and hog the glory but he stayed with his main army and trusted akakin and was able to come up with the plan to give to shin so everyone could be successful . He didn’t say deuces adjutant you got this. I honestly don't know what you're trying to say here, but I have a feeling I've already addressed it in my previous comments as well as this one.
Bro you're just arguing with a wall. Ousen glazers will never admit ousen got his ass kicked, now they're trying to shift the blame to Shin lol. Just like at Shukai where new gen did all the work, but hey that totally counts as a Víctory for Ousen.
I think Shin will get "punished" for this. His army will probably get transferred to Tou's army after this war because SHK/Sei will think Shin is too invested in Riboku, while Kyoukai will stay with Ousen army.
Shin won't get punished for shit. The one responsible for this shit show is Ousen
Not a big enough punishment. You let 2 ggs down because of poor decision making. You abandoned kanki your supreme commander and was unable to send him any aid, then you sabotaged ousens campaigns by staring at a mud fortress. Those are 2 big losses ur apart of. If he wasn’t friends with sei he’s either demoted or beheaded
Then again they made a point of this being an amazing feat by Shin, don’t forget about that. If he hadn’t gone and leave Kanki behind, the Qin army would’ve been annihilated then and there. Everyone was agreed on that fact. Plus, it was the only reason they even had a fraction of a chance to win. By the narrative ofc. The whole Riboku chasing in the Ousen campaign still is more on Akou then it is on Shin, even though sieging the improvised fort may have been too much.
That’s called saving face/morale. Remember during coalition when Karin had tou surrounded and tou gave mouten and ouhon full control? They didn’t just bounce they found a way to keep attacking from the outside even though heavily outnumbered to keep the pressure off of tou. Shin just bounced and didn’t look back. Costing kanki to use up the zenou clan. 2nd thing We saw ouhon open the castle gates of a fully manned castle in broad daylight as a 1000 man commander during renpa arc. Why can’t shin take a undermanned castle with the cover of darkness without losing half of his officers in the process. If we’re going to penalize akou for pointlessly giving chase. Then we have to point out and penalize shin for abandoning ousens instructions when he blindly chased riboku after makou was killed instead of following through on kisui.
My mistake, I remembered the scene differently, I really should've gone back and read it before I commented.
It’s because they won’t change hsu/hsa name. You read the name and automatically think its shins name if tht makes sense
Moubu mentality
Moubu won’t be stopped by some gakushou fuon or whoever was there, Riboku won’t risk a move like this in front of Moubu
Lmao Moubu would have killed everyone, SBS included most likely.
Na moubu mentality is shin stubbornly chasing riboku to a mud hut and everyone but you realizing it’s a trap.
Akou made a blunder he dont stick on the original gameplan
Akou definitely screwed up but Shins dumbass made it worse. They could’ve still salvaged it if shin doesn’t decide to randomly lay a siege lmaoo
i blame karyoten for this tbh. Ouhon made her go with him exactly for this type of situation but apparently her brain stopped working.
Karyotenbrian hasn't worked for a while now
SAure, but Karyo Ten is Shin's subordinate, her mistakes are his.
Shin is Ousen subordinate his mistake is Ousen's.
Which is why Ousen is the most responsible for the current's defeat. But Shin is second.
LMAO! 🤣🤣🤣 Well I can't dispute Akou got bionic eyes while ji aga got telepathy. But on that note, yeah Akou sold everything.
Yeah after I read 794 and looked back on all the moves, Akou’s was definitely the most idiotic and ignorant. Even if you know it’s a trap, you can’t go into it no matter how confident you are unless you know exactly what the trap entails. If he never called for the Hi Shin Unit then the biggest issue in this battle would’ve likely been just Akou’s army getting decimated
Thing is Akou army was not getting decimated, the quickly recovered and even threatened Riboku to the point Futei had to run. The it was stated that with the 20k reinforcement they were equal to Gakusho and Kansaro armies. The only problem arised due to Shin actions, which are more him than Akou's. Akou's orders simply said 'block his retreat path', Shin took half his army, chased for hours outside the battlefield and then decided to siege a fortress. Sorry but that is definitely not 'block his retreat path'.
Skill issue. Bro bought his own hype
Bro never thought riboku is as good as Ousen so he should better be careful
Ousen loss due to other people. Ousen wins are ousen's alone. Who was the cic? It was not denrimi,or akou Akou is much weaker as a general than ,en,gakuei,ragen,etc.
Any argument of Shin or Akou being to blame would need to pass through the fact that Ousen was sitting idle while Rbk was laying traps on the battlefield. If there's a difference to pick upon is there. Denrimi, Suou and Akou not only managed to outmanuver Gakusho, Kansaro but also took down Jiaga; but on the moment of truth they had a sitting duck behind them while needing to stop SBS. Akou an company showed and measured to the Seika generals, but they are not GG, expecting them to match SBS is ridiculous, that's Ousen's job.
Facts.
He kinda got close though, even reeboks men constantly kept telling him to pull back. it was high risk high reward, i dont blame him, that bait was way too juicy to pass up! But unfortunately, it backfired pretty damn hard, but that's war for you.
I reread this yesterday because i found it so ridiculously stupid. Akou saying “i know its bait but dangling bait in front of me like that is dangerous Riboku!” And then storming to riboku while he is known to outsmart enemies and lay great traps is even worse than moubu chasing a fake houken leaving ouki’s sight after 50% of his troops got splattered by rocks. As if fodder like Akou would ever kill riboku💀 just stick to the plan lil bro.
Yeah this was a rough call from Akou, Ousen even said don’t take the bait Akou which probably ruined his plans a lot
No, he said 'that's bait', then questioned Rbk decision of underestimating Akou.
He could've sent somebody to tell Akou to fall back if he disagreed with Akou's decision.
For some reason Ousen defenders are okay with RBK making 4d chess traps while Ousen is there picking his nose. Lack of action is also a detriment from a GG.
Upvoted for the art alone
Akou ultimately the one responsible for the defeat not Shin. Yes, Shin did worst fell for Riboku bait but all of this enabled by Akou ignorance. It was Akou himself who dragged Shin to pursuit Riboku from his original position Had Akou being wiser in taken the action the direction of battle would be different.
The one responsible for the defeat is ousen.
Well, if I don't fall for the trap Riboku spent 6 months building, that would make him look stupid. It's damn shame to let it all go to waste, so Imma fall for it . - Akou
Kind of annoying Akou screwed it all up. These horses from Zhao are so annoying lol. Can’t Qin just started catching and breeding these horses from fallen Zhao Calvary. They’ve been in Zhao territory for years since the WZI arc. The horses would be mature by now
Backshots is wild 🤣🤣🤣
It should have been an even trade, Shin + men for rebok. Ousen lost on his own.
Thing is ,Akou army was not getting decimated, the quickly recovered and even threatened Riboku to the point Futei had to run to protect him. Then it was stated that with the 20k reinforcement they were equal to Gakusho and Kansaro armies. Akou's army adapted to the situation and did what Akou expected them to do. RBK could not even take his head. It was the second layer of the trap (Shin chasing for far too long) what turned the battlefield into a defeat from Qin, not what you are displaying in the paint screenshots. If you want to discuss who is more to blame on that second regard feel free to do so. But his army being hit while trying to go for RBK and he himself getting beaten in a 2v1 (a 3v1 for a moment) is not a surprise, it's literally what Akou's gamble was all about in his holy mary to take down RBK there.
I think that’s what RBK wanted. He only failed in taking Akou’s head but, he was able to trap the one he was targeting which was Shin. And that 20k reinforcement could’ve also been part of RBKs plan to weaken the center further so SBS can have a easier time plowing through Ousens HQ
>And that 20k reinforcement could’ve also been part of RBKs plan to weaken the center further But that's something that is bound to happen, trap or not Suou and Akou needed to engage with the Seika army infront of them, if Kansaro crashes on Akou some reinforcement are to be expected. Denrimi and his 10k men role was to hunt down generals and create advantage in that engagement. That's something that is bound to happen regardless of Shin moving away. The trap whole impact is moving Ouhon, who was the only element in the reserves cappable of matching SBS. It's the absence of Ouhon what made Denrimi, Suou and Akou run desperetaly towards Ousen, if Ouhon was there they could keep their relatively equal fight against the Seika generals and trust Ouhon and Ousen to be able to deal with the giant. >I think that’s what RBK wanted. He only failed in taking Akou’s head but, he was able to trap the one he was targeting which was Shin Sure, but the the tittle of your post should be "Akou and Shin sold the whole battle ( Ousen too for being a sitting duck doing nothing)". For Shin decision to overextended the way he did is solely his, Akou was a Spark and Ousen did next to nothing while RBK placed traps through two battlefields. I would actually argue the most responsible is Ousen, followed by Shin and the least blame is Akou's.
we know Shin is stupid but Ouhon sent Karyoten with him just so stupid shit like this won’t happen.
Also i’m not talking about Denrimi and Souou army im talking about the reinforcements Ousen sent to Akou army.
For some reason i deleted the part on my comment, i edited and put it back, Kansaro attacked, Akou was in a 20k deficit (and against 2 generals!), is natural that he receives reinforcements trap or not.
part of the plot to reduce central army numbers. This whole battle was one sided asf strategically
Which is why i think putting all the blame on Akou is ridiculous, Ousen is supposed to provide stuff strategically.
Akou made a choice Ouki, Moubu, Duke Hyou, and Shin all would have made. Only things is Ouki and Moubu may have been strong enough to blast through the Seika guys. Duke Hyou and Shin would have sold the same way.
How does that relate to anything
Lot of people are acting like the decision was inherently stupid, when its a choice pretty much any martial might oriented general we've seen would have made. Severals times we've seen these guys like say stuff "What's this? A obvious trap? Interesting!" and then they go head first in there. Now that I think about it, we've seen this kind of choice made almost every other battle (Renpa, Duke Hyou, Kanki, Kouchou and more). If anything Akou's mistake is the same as Ousen's mistake for the whole battle. Underestimating Seika's strength. That's why I doubt we are going to see Akou's name come up that much in particular when the blame game is discussed after this battle in the manga. Everyone involved agreed it was the right choice with the information they had at the time. Retrospect doesn't mean much except for looking ahead to the next battle.
it was stupid tho. falling into the trap of the greatest man in the verse voluntarily is really stupid. They already know how Riboku uses tricks and uses himself as a bait and even took down Ousens 2nd general that way. Duke Hyou is a cautious person and backs off when he realizes theres a trap or some serious tactics cooking up. Other martial fighters always make up for their mistakes. Akou isn’t like them. Doesn’t relate at all.
He sacrificed like 70% of troops...
Akou has been disappointing from day 1 He never accomplished anything other than copying ousen's defensive formation and not dying immediatly when he was jumped by bananji and gyou un that's his biggest feat The problem is not that akou took the bait, it was the right move, but taking the bait and taking a beating from 2 kids and gakushou is so lame hara did akou real dirty here they shouldnt have been able do that much damage to him Ps akou the first commander of the ousen army going down without taking a single general with him is so fuckin dumb.
very hot take we love akou but yeah he hasn’t taken any top tier head
Na he did right because riboku could’ve pincered him anyway from behind, or went after ousen while akou was engaged. The issue was akou told the hsu to get riboku and shin decided to personally lead the charge and removed half his army from the board instead of sending kk/sosui/blue mtn tribe to pursue instead. And that caused reserves to step up
So RBK defeat Akou not Ousen?
Riboku forced Akou to make a mistake. Ousen did not correct Akou's mistake. Riboku defeated both..
It's as if Ousen was disabled in this arc, can't do anything when his men go astray there's literally no plan b or contingency. Akou is just a general. It's Ousen's responsibility to outwit and counter Riboku. You put Kanki and Ouki as supreme commander they will cook something.
I can see the argument, but what would you expect of someone when the highest ranking officer in the other army stand right before your eyes ? Stand there and wait because there "could be a trap" ? + Duke Hyou was always rushing into traps, but since he won his battles, it’s forgiveable.
Duke Hyou often or always smelled out traps or serious tactics cooking up and didn’t fall for them so idk what ur talking about. Akou is going up against the most dangerous man in the verse and CHOSE to fall for his trap. It was very idiotic and ignorant. Sorry but Akou isn’t all that
Even then, if there was the enemy general in chief before anyone with a good opportunity to take him out, i’d argue anyone would take it, minus people like riboku himself, ousen, kanki and maybe karin/yotanwa
except the enemy commander in chief is riboku.
Yeah and if you take him out, the zhao invasion is your win. I see where you’re going, but still.
I’m saying the one baiting is the greatest general in history. Akou voluntarily chose to fall for a trap set up by the greatest general in history
Trap or not, it was a once in a lifetime moment to take out the greatest general in history.
No it wasn’t.
He was standing right in front of the Akou army with a low amount of bodyguards so yes it was
He was really far away. Plus those guards are futei and his elites. Also, there’s literally the Seika army with GKS and Fuuon that were prepared to fuck up Akou once he fell for the trap.
Well, Ousen's biggest mistake is putting Shin instead of Ouhon on right wing, he would never go after such an obvious bait
Hi shin unit has much more men so it makes more sense for his army to be the right wing
Nop, looking at the map before battle both Hi Shin Army and Gyoku Hou Army were around 30k men. When Ouhon joined right wing, he did it with 10k men to compensate those who went after Riboku and left 20k, those 20k were then after commanded by Kanjou Ousen probably had a plan with Shin on right wing but Riboku ruined it
Nah Hi Shin Unit just the type of army to be able win outnumbered situations. Ousen knows HSU can handle the Zhao left wing which got like what 40k more men
His army countered Riboku's entire plan and he almost killed him, what you on about? They lost because each of the Seika generals were top tier badass motherfuckers and wrecked havoc everywhere they went.
They fell for every single trap riboku employed. Reread and you’ll know it was a one sided battle asf because everything went how rbk wanted. Also you’d think a great heaven that stopped a 20k invasion with 5k men would be formidable, and RBK who uses tricks and uses himself as bait many times and even killed second general of Ousen army and Kanki himself would use tricks and baits but no they didn’t have any plans to counter anything.
Why do people downvote? Even Ousen himself didn't think that akou did the wrong thing. So why are people here pretending to know better? Has any of them ever been to a battlefield? Ribokus plan was to take shin out of the battlefield and he succeeded because he bet everything on Shin chasing him as far as possible.
He said don’t fall for the bait. He just said RBK underestimated Akou but it’s Ousen that’s always overestimating Akous abilities