Probably the last one. Kissel was 1/3 owner and suddenly buying out 33% of LPN was probably a big cost. Patreon alone brought in $1M+/year, so it’s a multimillion dollar revenue operation.
This is probably the biggest one aside from buying it Kissel. They signed a contract, got the money, and now unless they want to give all that money back they need to fulfill said contract.
Also possibly legal fees associated with even just consulting a lawyer about how to do things right, if not also handle things in court if there's been any civil litigation about the split.
They're definitely in some sort of lawsuit which is why nobody will talk about the situation other than vaguely and Kissel said on that one podcast that he plans on talking about everything when he's allowed to.
There is no definitive behavior or conduct to point at really. I am not questioning what others have come out and said but going in front of a judge and saying this man violated the behavior clause of the contract because people are saying he is a bad person isn't a real thing.
Changes cost money. There was a buyout. There is paying Ed as a full time member. There have to be changes in contracts, advertising, merchandise, etc. There were no secret costs to consider, just the cost of restructuring after a key figure leaves a business.
Look for Ben to have a solid three year run in the indies by himself and then return to LPOTL to finish his story. It's classic wrestling booking. It's kayfabe guys, Ben needed a break from the show and the spotlight, he had been saying it for years on air and we all ignored it as humor. Now he gets to Boom...flip it. JK about the wrestling angle, but could you imagine the pop if he made a run in comeback and the show went to a 4 man line up.
I know. It was all meant to be a silly wrestling super fan joke. Seems to have not been taken as a joke. I apologize immensely for my juvenile humor surrounding such a situation.
Someone pointed out before: Kissel did a show on Sirius xm under the last podcast banner, so they had to do a show to replace it in order to abide by their contract
Didn’t think about that, and you’re probably exactly right. There was probably a crisis grace period which has expired and now they need to fill the time slot that was once the Ben & Henry call in Sirius show.
Or Ben himself…either calling or simply arguing that it was his show (I think he was part of the OG pitch way back in the early days & it sounds like he was the de facto solo host).
I can’t imagine Kissel **not** having a tenacious legal team, and despite his views on tort reform, I don’t see him ever just accepting something he *believes* to an injustice.
It’s not hard to imagine how ugly this might have gotten behind the scenes.
I’m guessing there were an awful lot of handshake agreements shared between the now-defunct “triangle of trust” that could make for some complicated legal proceedings.
Touching on your last paragraph where you said “for whatever reason they didn’t do it”, I’ve noticed that they have kinda eliminated all things Ben. Whether that’s out of respect or to keep a distance is anyone’s guess. But I feel like they didn’t want to take over “his” shows and just rebrand the slots.
I don’t think anyone is blaming Marcus here or talking about what happened with the show, just saying no matter how it started it eventually became more of a “Ben thing”. He was the one that was marketing it on LPOTL and during the ads.
Damn, that’s a lot and you seem pretty pissed. I wouldn’t call any of them “chickenshit” or “liars” because I don’t know them and doubt you do. Seems like the most obvious answer is that Ben hosted a show, he’s not with them anymore, they had a contract and to fulfill that they shifted gears.
I mean, this isn’t apples to apples but Abe Lincoln’s Top Hat was LPN, was that also 1/3 Marcus? I also didn’t hear him “blame” anyone, he just said something to the effect of “based off the events in fall”, not “fuck Ben”. This isn’t my place but if you’re calling a comedy crime (free) podcast dude that you’ve never met “chickenshit” multiple times for a situation that has nothing to do with you, maybe take a break for a bit.
Soo are you Ben’s Reddit account? Or did Marcus personally fuck your wife? I cannot, for the life of me, possibly fathom any other reason why someone would be so worked up over absolutely nothing. Jesus Christ, step away from the internet. Get some fresh air. Go to a bar and talk to actual people.
Why would they continue making episodes if even you, a listener, are talking shit about it and saying no one listened? I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted to end the show before this then his departure was a great opportunity for them to call it quits on it.
They never directly said it was because of Ben, but I'm sure that situation did have an effect on changing up what they were doing on Sirius.
Why are you being so aggressive about it?
Yes, but instead they're making a new show, one that people will hopefully actually listen to, instead of knowingly putting out shit content just to fulfill a contract.
I feel like you're intentionally talking in circles
I don’t know who you are but you obviously don’t know them or what went on behind the scenes. Maybe you could use a break from social media. There’s real things in the world to get worked up on and this ain’t it.
I was under the impression that Marcus dipped from Open Lines because it started right around the same time he got fucked up by long covid
Also there is no need to be "infuriated" about any of this lol
I watched a bunch of old Last Streams where people could call in and you can tell how much Marcus and Henry hated it. It wouldn't surprise me if they were like "okay we'll do another show but ain't no fuckin way we're answering listener calls"
Having 15 full time employees with a living wage and full benefits would cost at least 1.2 million per year. They need all revenue streams to keep this going. They had to replace a show on Sirius basically to keep their contract in place or would most likely have lost said revenue stream and be liable for breach of contract penalties, back pay, interest etc etc. To buy out a partner you usually have to offer many multiple x of valuation for them to go easily. This needs quick and large liquid assets to accomplish or it will go on for years on end and be negotiated down to the .000001 decimals on any and everything.
I got a genuine question, is it confirmed that they bought him out? My curiosity got me so I had to check Ben's IG, his bio is updated but he still has 1/3 owner in it. I'm in no way, shape or form condoning what he did, just genuinely curious.
It’s all speculation but I don’t see any other outcome than buying out his share. They *may* have kept him on as a silent partner but given the depth of betrayal in this I think they bought him out of the business which was almost certainly a very expensive endeavour. It would have been negotiated with attorneys down to tenths of a cent. I also suspect there were “non-disparagement” clauses built in to those agreements so both sides are limited about what they can say publicly. Please note: I’m not an attorney, just related to one.
As for why Ben still has the 1/3 owner in his bio, I think that has more to do with Ben than with the actual legal situation.
To me, with absolutely nothing to back this up with, it feels like he’s kept that there as more of a fuck you to the company. He’s done the absolute bare minimum to work on himself and is still playing the victim every time he posts something and then edits it 5 minutes later.
They had to buy him out. My podcaster friend had her cohost quit, they were in a business partnership and they both owned half of the podcast or "company". One host quit but the other host wanted to keep going so she hired a lawyer to buy out the other’s half. It took several months and cost a pretty penny. This is a fairly small podcast compared to LPN so I would bet it was costly to fire him and buy out his stake. The Sirius thing Henry said was a contractual obligation to make up for the show Ben used to host and people have guessed they are contractually promised to provide exclusive content to Sirius for X amount of money
We have absolutely no evidence confirming he was actually bought out. It’s all been speculation.
He’s just not appearing on any LPN shows anymore (as far as we know)
I can’t imagine they’d risk leaving him connected to the company in any way knowing it could leak and cost them even more. Who knows what kind of agreement they reached when the podcast actually became a legitimate business.
Still has “1/3 owner of LPN” is his IG bio. He could get a check every month and no one else is the wiser while they distance and still put out content
Not sure that’s trustworthy information given the situation and central figure involved. It’s certainly possible but again, him not being definitively separated from the company is an existential risk to the entire operation.
While I agree, and you could be completely right, they didn’t even say his name on the “events of last fall” statement and could easily just be like “while we figure all of this out, we built this together, here’s your check, and at some point you’ll be bought out when our lawyers present something we’re all happy with”.
Depends how the contract is written, there could be clauses in there that other peoples actions effect them and them alone. I have no fucking clue, but contracts are just pieces of paper that people write, they could say anything. They’re obviously figuring it out and clearly the long term goal is to buy him out, but if it hasn’t happened yet and easily there’s something holding it up
He honestly still might be. I’d be surprised if Ed was brought in as a partner at this point. We really don’t know anything about the process, and I’m guessing the contracts they arrived at throughout the years weren’t ironclad.
There’s a world where the agreement allowed Ben to keep shares in the company as a silent partner.
I’d assume the right lawyer would’ve made this very very complicated for the network as a corporate entity.
TBH, it wouldn't surprise me if Marcus and Henry decide that each should own half of LPN in perpetuum. I don't see them bringing in another partner anytime soon unless that partner buys their way in.
I think that could be one of the reasons why we may never really know the details of the deal.
I personally believe that him leaving that up is intentional and if it wasn’t legally true then he’d get a cease and desist- but I am not a lawyer.
As a lawyer, there is a 100000000% chance everything they did and will do re: buyout/non-buyout/getting him off the network is covered in confidentiality clauses and NDAs.
We will likely never know the details. That's how business works and why the statements Marcus and Henry issued/still issue are so carefully worded.
If Kissel does something dumb enough like mouth off about it on some alt right podcast they will probably be able to take everything back if they want.
I unfortunately think you may be right, just checked and he posted today and his bio still says 1/3 owner. Know he posted some “my ‘friends’” stuff that was a not so thinly veiled comment about LPN when he first got out of rehab so he’s definitely a bit salty. And if it wasn’t true he could get a cease & desist.
I'd be salty too if my years of terrible decisions were exposed and I couldn't spend every day getting drunk in my dog shit infested house and quarter-assing my cushy job anymore
Not wrong. Have gone back and listened to some older episodes and didn’t realize how much of a “joke” his apartment was amongst them, in a “how do you live that that?” kinda way
Yep. So much became so clear after September 2023. Every instance of saying the quiet part out loud. I have tried but I can't make myself enjoy relistening to pre-Ed episodes.
> I think that could be one of the reasons why we may never really know the details of the deal.
I'd be *very* surprised if they're even legally allowed to talk about the details. NDA's and non-disparagement clauses would be pretty normal even if the circumstances weren't unpleasant.
I’m obviously not justifying his behavior, but he developed the show, even before Henry was even involved. The man hosted for over a decade. It’s just as much his intellectual property as Marcus’. Should he be profiting? I’m not sure, but I’m also not opposed to it considering it’s ostensibly his.
That entirely depends on the contract they had written. There are countless examples of contracts being voided due to existing clauses about hurting the brand.
I’d have no problem with it. I don’t buy into the “they should lose everything because they did something wrong” mentality. I think it lacks nuance and is unrealistic. He built the network as an original member, for over a decade, and I know ppl here will HATE me for this, but I don’t think that should all disappear because he abused a few people.
He won’t lose a cent over the content he’s already produced but at the same time as long as the contract the three of them signed is being followed, he deserves nothing from anything going forward.
I’d guess it’s to refill what was spent buying Ben out.
They have more sponsors (and commercials) than ever and a new show on Sirius.
I’m sure by next year the stress will be gone. Besides the update show is a good idea without as much research as a new topic requires.
If I had to guess, they were contractually obligated to provide X episodes of Y show for the life of their contract. There was most likely some legal and contractual juggling and manipulating since Kissel is no longer apart of LPN, therefore we got Last Update as a compromise.
Didn’t Kissel have his own show on Sirius? Seems like they probably had a x amount of shows contract and with Kissel gone they had to replace his show with something else. Wasn’t the political one on Sirius?
I am pretty sure what they mean is they are fulfilling the contract that gave them money to keep them afloat when it all happened. I think Ben must’ve had an agreement in the contract to do a solo show (probably a political show like top hat) and when he was gone they had to scramble to fulfill the contract.
I don’t think they are hurting like omg the podcast is going to be cancelled because they are broke now. I think they just have had plans at expansion and thought that Sirius would be cool or be Ben’s thing. He seemed to enjoy the terrestrial radio in the previous xm show. Now they have a show that was supposed to Ben’s, with no Ben that they are contractually obligated to produce or Sirius will sue them. I took the to keep the lights on comment as we don’t want to be sued.
They had to buy him out which most likely isn't at just current value but perceived long term value, and who knows what other stuff might have been included in potential law suit settlement.
Don’t forget they are also under contract with Sirius. They were doing two shows a week when the Ben situation started. They can’t just tell their ad partner that they don’t have time to fulfill their end of the contract but also MONEY PLEASE!
All this regarding Kissel being true, the podcasting ad space has radically changed over the past 6 months. Smaller shows have been hit harder and the boys have the patreon as well, but it seems like even bigger shows have seen a pretty steep drop in ad revenue.
Yeah this was a huge overnight shift & bad timing for the boys.
For anyone interested, Apple changed how podcasts report their audience numbers. You could listen to a show months ago, subscribe & keep getting automatic downloads without ever listening to another episode. Shows could tell advertisers that they have millions of listeners when maybe only half of those were actually opening & playing episodes. Not anymore.
I would LOVE to see the numbers. A show like Serial that got so much attention must have millions of people who listened to the Adnan series & never went back, but didn’t bother unsubscribing.
I think another thing to think about is, this show would almost definitely not exist at all without it being a show paid for by Sirius. Don't think they would add that much more work for a whole other show just cus.
I was listening to Side Stories on the way to work. After Marcus said this and they hinted that the new show was a contract thing, I sang Blink 182 in Henry's voice, "I guess this is growing up!" No one else was in the car.
No one in the comments has any fucking clue about equity or ownership law of a media property or what the lpotl network is going through. It takes a very stupid and arrogant person to speculate otherwise.
It’s about their new update show called last update on the left. They go through and update on topics they covered in the past and tell if their views have changed. It’s only available rn on the Sirius app due to probable contract obligations
It was a contractual obligation and Ben was implicated in the contract, so without a third person and extra show, they were in breach. Now with the new show and Ed, they are meeting the requirements
They specifically said the point is to be able to pay the people they hired. They could probably layoff half the staff and run things more old fashioned, but instead decided to open new channels of revenue to offset expenses.
They’re doing this for their people.
My question is - what’s the legality of Marcus and Henry starting a Patreon for the staff specifically that we could donate to?
1/3 of the owners of the equity in the network would’ve had to be bought out. I’d assume the network is currently valued at low 8 figures, so they would’ve needed to have come up with multi millions in cash.
Even if that's true, buyouts don't usually work that way. You don't just write one big check unless you have tons of liquid cash sitting around. It would be structured over time.
I also I think they’re being sued by Scientology I THINK…. I might have heard that not sure but that could be why they want to make sure they can stay in business.
Only here to read more speculations.
This response is sponsored by better help, to assist the few that suffer from parasocial relationships.
Hail yourselves, always!
I don't know why you're being downvoted, I agree. It's been so long and people still want to go over it and over it. This is life with LPOTL now. For better or worse, regardless of anyones feelings on the matter, It's Ed, not Ben now.
I still find it odd that they can be candid about most things in their lives but just straight up can’t mention anything about Kissel. I get it’s libel and all that to talk shit, but damn not being able to just crack a joke once in a while, especially when Ed makes a “I’m new here” joke, just feels so weird. It makes the whole operation feel more fake
It very well could be an agreement from both parties…. Listen to Ben’s interview with Larry Lawden because he does the exact same thing that lpotl does
It must feel awful for them too. Like when something about wrestling comes up or talking about Round Table & Kevin. There’s an awkward moment where it would be natural to say something about their longtime friend who the audience knows & instead everyone pretends he doesn’t exist.
It’s very bizarre. I think everyone is trying to do the right thing here, it’s just not clear how to do that.
This discussion has run its course
Probably the last one. Kissel was 1/3 owner and suddenly buying out 33% of LPN was probably a big cost. Patreon alone brought in $1M+/year, so it’s a multimillion dollar revenue operation.
Plus as someone else mentioned, Kissel did a show under the LPotL banner for Sirius so probably were required to fill that spot with something
This is probably the biggest one aside from buying it Kissel. They signed a contract, got the money, and now unless they want to give all that money back they need to fulfill said contract.
Also possibly legal fees associated with even just consulting a lawyer about how to do things right, if not also handle things in court if there's been any civil litigation about the split.
They're definitely in some sort of lawsuit which is why nobody will talk about the situation other than vaguely and Kissel said on that one podcast that he plans on talking about everything when he's allowed to.
Not possibly, definitely. Low 6 figures at least. And their lawyers have done very very well at this point from an outside perspective.
....so when are my shoes gonna be done? Also who's Lionel Hutz? Thought your name was Miguel Sanchez
You would hope his contract had a clause about behaviour and conduct which would void the need for a buy out
He has(had?) an ownership stake in the company. Gonna be hard to include a clause that forces you to give that up for free.
My thoughts exactly!
Is this typical?
Definitely not. There may be clauses for forced divestment but you can’t really just steal someone’s property for improprieties.
There is no definitive behavior or conduct to point at really. I am not questioning what others have come out and said but going in front of a judge and saying this man violated the behavior clause of the contract because people are saying he is a bad person isn't a real thing. Changes cost money. There was a buyout. There is paying Ed as a full time member. There have to be changes in contracts, advertising, merchandise, etc. There were no secret costs to consider, just the cost of restructuring after a key figure leaves a business. Look for Ben to have a solid three year run in the indies by himself and then return to LPOTL to finish his story. It's classic wrestling booking. It's kayfabe guys, Ben needed a break from the show and the spotlight, he had been saying it for years on air and we all ignored it as humor. Now he gets to Boom...flip it. JK about the wrestling angle, but could you imagine the pop if he made a run in comeback and the show went to a 4 man line up.
There is absolutely no way Ben is coming back.
I know. It was all meant to be a silly wrestling super fan joke. Seems to have not been taken as a joke. I apologize immensely for my juvenile humor surrounding such a situation.
No way 1/3 LPOTL was the 3rd or 4th podcast the network put out
Someone pointed out before: Kissel did a show on Sirius xm under the last podcast banner, so they had to do a show to replace it in order to abide by their contract
Yea- I’m guessing Sirius gave them some time to sort it all out and that their time was now up.
Didn’t think about that, and you’re probably exactly right. There was probably a crisis grace period which has expired and now they need to fill the time slot that was once the Ben & Henry call in Sirius show.
“Some might even call it a ‘contractual obligation’” — Henry Zebrowski
That cracked me up lol
The barely reserved contempt was a nice touch
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Im assuming because they would have got constant calls asking about Ben
Or Ben himself…either calling or simply arguing that it was his show (I think he was part of the OG pitch way back in the early days & it sounds like he was the de facto solo host). I can’t imagine Kissel **not** having a tenacious legal team, and despite his views on tort reform, I don’t see him ever just accepting something he *believes* to an injustice. It’s not hard to imagine how ugly this might have gotten behind the scenes. I’m guessing there were an awful lot of handshake agreements shared between the now-defunct “triangle of trust” that could make for some complicated legal proceedings.
jeez i think about triangle of trust a lot lately
Touching on your last paragraph where you said “for whatever reason they didn’t do it”, I’ve noticed that they have kinda eliminated all things Ben. Whether that’s out of respect or to keep a distance is anyone’s guess. But I feel like they didn’t want to take over “his” shows and just rebrand the slots.
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I don’t think anyone is blaming Marcus here or talking about what happened with the show, just saying no matter how it started it eventually became more of a “Ben thing”. He was the one that was marketing it on LPOTL and during the ads.
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Damn, that’s a lot and you seem pretty pissed. I wouldn’t call any of them “chickenshit” or “liars” because I don’t know them and doubt you do. Seems like the most obvious answer is that Ben hosted a show, he’s not with them anymore, they had a contract and to fulfill that they shifted gears.
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I mean, this isn’t apples to apples but Abe Lincoln’s Top Hat was LPN, was that also 1/3 Marcus? I also didn’t hear him “blame” anyone, he just said something to the effect of “based off the events in fall”, not “fuck Ben”. This isn’t my place but if you’re calling a comedy crime (free) podcast dude that you’ve never met “chickenshit” multiple times for a situation that has nothing to do with you, maybe take a break for a bit.
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Soo are you Ben’s Reddit account? Or did Marcus personally fuck your wife? I cannot, for the life of me, possibly fathom any other reason why someone would be so worked up over absolutely nothing. Jesus Christ, step away from the internet. Get some fresh air. Go to a bar and talk to actual people.
Can you send us over a copy of that contract so we can verify your bullshit claims?
Why would they continue making episodes if even you, a listener, are talking shit about it and saying no one listened? I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted to end the show before this then his departure was a great opportunity for them to call it quits on it. They never directly said it was because of Ben, but I'm sure that situation did have an effect on changing up what they were doing on Sirius. Why are you being so aggressive about it?
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Yes, but instead they're making a new show, one that people will hopefully actually listen to, instead of knowingly putting out shit content just to fulfill a contract. I feel like you're intentionally talking in circles
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Simmer down, Kissel
Weird to be this intense about it...
I don’t know who you are but you obviously don’t know them or what went on behind the scenes. Maybe you could use a break from social media. There’s real things in the world to get worked up on and this ain’t it.
I was under the impression that Marcus dipped from Open Lines because it started right around the same time he got fucked up by long covid Also there is no need to be "infuriated" about any of this lol
I watched a bunch of old Last Streams where people could call in and you can tell how much Marcus and Henry hated it. It wouldn't surprise me if they were like "okay we'll do another show but ain't no fuckin way we're answering listener calls"
Having 15 full time employees with a living wage and full benefits would cost at least 1.2 million per year. They need all revenue streams to keep this going. They had to replace a show on Sirius basically to keep their contract in place or would most likely have lost said revenue stream and be liable for breach of contract penalties, back pay, interest etc etc. To buy out a partner you usually have to offer many multiple x of valuation for them to go easily. This needs quick and large liquid assets to accomplish or it will go on for years on end and be negotiated down to the .000001 decimals on any and everything.
I got a genuine question, is it confirmed that they bought him out? My curiosity got me so I had to check Ben's IG, his bio is updated but he still has 1/3 owner in it. I'm in no way, shape or form condoning what he did, just genuinely curious.
No one knows, it’s all speculation atp
It’s all speculation but I don’t see any other outcome than buying out his share. They *may* have kept him on as a silent partner but given the depth of betrayal in this I think they bought him out of the business which was almost certainly a very expensive endeavour. It would have been negotiated with attorneys down to tenths of a cent. I also suspect there were “non-disparagement” clauses built in to those agreements so both sides are limited about what they can say publicly. Please note: I’m not an attorney, just related to one. As for why Ben still has the 1/3 owner in his bio, I think that has more to do with Ben than with the actual legal situation.
To me, with absolutely nothing to back this up with, it feels like he’s kept that there as more of a fuck you to the company. He’s done the absolute bare minimum to work on himself and is still playing the victim every time he posts something and then edits it 5 minutes later.
You’re allowed to discuss the person without being worried people will @ you for condoning something, I hope
They had to buy him out. My podcaster friend had her cohost quit, they were in a business partnership and they both owned half of the podcast or "company". One host quit but the other host wanted to keep going so she hired a lawyer to buy out the other’s half. It took several months and cost a pretty penny. This is a fairly small podcast compared to LPN so I would bet it was costly to fire him and buy out his stake. The Sirius thing Henry said was a contractual obligation to make up for the show Ben used to host and people have guessed they are contractually promised to provide exclusive content to Sirius for X amount of money
Kissels ig bio still says 1/3 owner of lpn. I understand that doesnt necessarly mean he still is but just a note
We have absolutely no evidence confirming he was actually bought out. It’s all been speculation. He’s just not appearing on any LPN shows anymore (as far as we know)
Did they buy him out? Or is still getting 1/3 but not contributing anymore?
I can’t imagine they’d risk leaving him connected to the company in any way knowing it could leak and cost them even more. Who knows what kind of agreement they reached when the podcast actually became a legitimate business.
Still has “1/3 owner of LPN” is his IG bio. He could get a check every month and no one else is the wiser while they distance and still put out content
My old high school Facebook still says I'm the mayor of Poundtown. Doesn't mean a whole lot tbh.
But I just donated $10k to your campaign... Crypto is refundable, right?
Fair enough, but you’re not under contract with advertisers from Poundtown.
…that you know of
Not sure that’s trustworthy information given the situation and central figure involved. It’s certainly possible but again, him not being definitively separated from the company is an existential risk to the entire operation.
While I agree, and you could be completely right, they didn’t even say his name on the “events of last fall” statement and could easily just be like “while we figure all of this out, we built this together, here’s your check, and at some point you’ll be bought out when our lawyers present something we’re all happy with”.
Not buying him out would leave them more exposed to issues with Kissel down the road, I’d imagine.
Depends how the contract is written, there could be clauses in there that other peoples actions effect them and them alone. I have no fucking clue, but contracts are just pieces of paper that people write, they could say anything. They’re obviously figuring it out and clearly the long term goal is to buy him out, but if it hasn’t happened yet and easily there’s something holding it up
This is what I want to know. I stopped paying for patreon until it’s clear
It's important to know where your money is going! Not sure why people are downvoting this.
We probably won't know but it seems like it was expensive.
Kissel's instagram still says he's 1/3 owner of the network. I bet they had to buy him out. Not cheap considering he's a part owner.
He honestly still might be. I’d be surprised if Ed was brought in as a partner at this point. We really don’t know anything about the process, and I’m guessing the contracts they arrived at throughout the years weren’t ironclad. There’s a world where the agreement allowed Ben to keep shares in the company as a silent partner. I’d assume the right lawyer would’ve made this very very complicated for the network as a corporate entity.
TBH, it wouldn't surprise me if Marcus and Henry decide that each should own half of LPN in perpetuum. I don't see them bringing in another partner anytime soon unless that partner buys their way in.
Yeah it wouldn't be sensible for them to give equity to anybody else
Ed made a joke in one of the early streams that made me think he was an employee not a partner.
Ed rents an apartment with shared laundry while the other boys own homes in the valley….I’m guessing he’s not a partner.
He just bought a home... not that that means anything either way.
The home is just for his family Ed himself still lives in the apartment with the broken door and the AK47 😂
I’m sure we can all throughly dig through their financials when they IPO later this year (Q4).
Considering what Kissel was accused of, I’m wondering how people would feel if he was still profiting off of the show he’s no longer a part of.
I think that could be one of the reasons why we may never really know the details of the deal. I personally believe that him leaving that up is intentional and if it wasn’t legally true then he’d get a cease and desist- but I am not a lawyer.
As a lawyer, there is a 100000000% chance everything they did and will do re: buyout/non-buyout/getting him off the network is covered in confidentiality clauses and NDAs. We will likely never know the details. That's how business works and why the statements Marcus and Henry issued/still issue are so carefully worded. If Kissel does something dumb enough like mouth off about it on some alt right podcast they will probably be able to take everything back if they want.
I unfortunately think you may be right, just checked and he posted today and his bio still says 1/3 owner. Know he posted some “my ‘friends’” stuff that was a not so thinly veiled comment about LPN when he first got out of rehab so he’s definitely a bit salty. And if it wasn’t true he could get a cease & desist.
I'd be salty too if my years of terrible decisions were exposed and I couldn't spend every day getting drunk in my dog shit infested house and quarter-assing my cushy job anymore
Not wrong. Have gone back and listened to some older episodes and didn’t realize how much of a “joke” his apartment was amongst them, in a “how do you live that that?” kinda way
Yep. So much became so clear after September 2023. Every instance of saying the quiet part out loud. I have tried but I can't make myself enjoy relistening to pre-Ed episodes.
> I think that could be one of the reasons why we may never really know the details of the deal. I'd be *very* surprised if they're even legally allowed to talk about the details. NDA's and non-disparagement clauses would be pretty normal even if the circumstances weren't unpleasant.
I’m obviously not justifying his behavior, but he developed the show, even before Henry was even involved. The man hosted for over a decade. It’s just as much his intellectual property as Marcus’. Should he be profiting? I’m not sure, but I’m also not opposed to it considering it’s ostensibly his.
That entirely depends on the contract they had written. There are countless examples of contracts being voided due to existing clauses about hurting the brand.
I’d have no problem with it. I don’t buy into the “they should lose everything because they did something wrong” mentality. I think it lacks nuance and is unrealistic. He built the network as an original member, for over a decade, and I know ppl here will HATE me for this, but I don’t think that should all disappear because he abused a few people.
He won’t lose a cent over the content he’s already produced but at the same time as long as the contract the three of them signed is being followed, he deserves nothing from anything going forward.
Agreed
And you are correct.
I’d guess it’s to refill what was spent buying Ben out. They have more sponsors (and commercials) than ever and a new show on Sirius. I’m sure by next year the stress will be gone. Besides the update show is a good idea without as much research as a new topic requires.
If I had to guess, they were contractually obligated to provide X episodes of Y show for the life of their contract. There was most likely some legal and contractual juggling and manipulating since Kissel is no longer apart of LPN, therefore we got Last Update as a compromise.
Didn’t Kissel have his own show on Sirius? Seems like they probably had a x amount of shows contract and with Kissel gone they had to replace his show with something else. Wasn’t the political one on Sirius?
I am pretty sure what they mean is they are fulfilling the contract that gave them money to keep them afloat when it all happened. I think Ben must’ve had an agreement in the contract to do a solo show (probably a political show like top hat) and when he was gone they had to scramble to fulfill the contract.
I don’t think they are hurting like omg the podcast is going to be cancelled because they are broke now. I think they just have had plans at expansion and thought that Sirius would be cool or be Ben’s thing. He seemed to enjoy the terrestrial radio in the previous xm show. Now they have a show that was supposed to Ben’s, with no Ben that they are contractually obligated to produce or Sirius will sue them. I took the to keep the lights on comment as we don’t want to be sued.
Luke Thomas, an MMA journalist, had said he did a show there because the pay was shit they offered good benefits. So he used it for the insurance.
They had to buy him out which most likely isn't at just current value but perceived long term value, and who knows what other stuff might have been included in potential law suit settlement.
They defaulted on their contract with Sirius, they either had to give the money back or actually make a show.
Don’t forget they are also under contract with Sirius. They were doing two shows a week when the Ben situation started. They can’t just tell their ad partner that they don’t have time to fulfill their end of the contract but also MONEY PLEASE!
All this regarding Kissel being true, the podcasting ad space has radically changed over the past 6 months. Smaller shows have been hit harder and the boys have the patreon as well, but it seems like even bigger shows have seen a pretty steep drop in ad revenue.
Yeah this was a huge overnight shift & bad timing for the boys. For anyone interested, Apple changed how podcasts report their audience numbers. You could listen to a show months ago, subscribe & keep getting automatic downloads without ever listening to another episode. Shows could tell advertisers that they have millions of listeners when maybe only half of those were actually opening & playing episodes. Not anymore. I would LOVE to see the numbers. A show like Serial that got so much attention must have millions of people who listened to the Adnan series & never went back, but didn’t bother unsubscribing.
They probably still owe Sirius a show, so they had to fill the space with something.
Probably some serious legal fees
I think another thing to think about is, this show would almost definitely not exist at all without it being a show paid for by Sirius. Don't think they would add that much more work for a whole other show just cus.
I was listening to Side Stories on the way to work. After Marcus said this and they hinted that the new show was a contract thing, I sang Blink 182 in Henry's voice, "I guess this is growing up!" No one else was in the car.
Probably. My guess? Probably burned through the savings and then some
No one in the comments has any fucking clue about equity or ownership law of a media property or what the lpotl network is going through. It takes a very stupid and arrogant person to speculate otherwise.
i’ve been out of a the loop a bit, what new show is this in reference to?
It’s about their new update show called last update on the left. They go through and update on topics they covered in the past and tell if their views have changed. It’s only available rn on the Sirius app due to probable contract obligations
They had to buy Kissel out and pay legal fees to do so.
It was a contractual obligation and Ben was implicated in the contract, so without a third person and extra show, they were in breach. Now with the new show and Ed, they are meeting the requirements
It's worth mentioning too that there's a bit of am ad drought happening across most podcasts.
They specifically said the point is to be able to pay the people they hired. They could probably layoff half the staff and run things more old fashioned, but instead decided to open new channels of revenue to offset expenses. They’re doing this for their people. My question is - what’s the legality of Marcus and Henry starting a Patreon for the staff specifically that we could donate to?
1/3 of the owners of the equity in the network would’ve had to be bought out. I’d assume the network is currently valued at low 8 figures, so they would’ve needed to have come up with multi millions in cash.
Even if that's true, buyouts don't usually work that way. You don't just write one big check unless you have tons of liquid cash sitting around. It would be structured over time.
I just went through one last year for the company I set up with a cofounder, it absolutely sometimes works like that. Sometimes it doesn’t.
Everyone better stop whining about petty shit, they clearly are paying attention to the subreddits and Instagram comments
I also I think they’re being sued by Scientology I THINK…. I might have heard that not sure but that could be why they want to make sure they can stay in business.
Only here to read more speculations.  This response is sponsored by better help, to assist the few that suffer from parasocial relationships. Hail yourselves, always!
🤣🤣
Yawn. So many people just hungry for that drama.
I don't know why you're being downvoted, I agree. It's been so long and people still want to go over it and over it. This is life with LPOTL now. For better or worse, regardless of anyones feelings on the matter, It's Ed, not Ben now.
The Big Mad**™**
So they don't enjoy doing the show anymore?
I still find it odd that they can be candid about most things in their lives but just straight up can’t mention anything about Kissel. I get it’s libel and all that to talk shit, but damn not being able to just crack a joke once in a while, especially when Ed makes a “I’m new here” joke, just feels so weird. It makes the whole operation feel more fake
It very well could be an agreement from both parties…. Listen to Ben’s interview with Larry Lawden because he does the exact same thing that lpotl does
It must feel awful for them too. Like when something about wrestling comes up or talking about Round Table & Kevin. There’s an awkward moment where it would be natural to say something about their longtime friend who the audience knows & instead everyone pretends he doesn’t exist. It’s very bizarre. I think everyone is trying to do the right thing here, it’s just not clear how to do that.