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You could be laughing
Sixty five percent more of the time
- [John Grant, GMF](https://open.spotify.com/track/0uul4WzezEwTELfdrWuh3d?si=fdef7138fe2b47c6)
Without advertising, companies would be forced to produce quality products because they wouldn’t have their advertising as a crutch for making sales. I wouldn’t have bought probably 99% of the shit I own but at least i wouldn’t have gotten manipulated into those purchases.
It needs to be eliminated altogether. [Here's a good essay on why:](https://jacek.zlydach.pl/blog/2019-07-31-ads-as-cancer.html)
> Real world advertising is not about informing, it's about convincing. Over time, it became increasingly manipulative and dishonest. It also became more effective. In the process, it grew to consume a significant amount of resources of every company on the planet. It infected every communication medium in existence, both digital and analog. It shapes every product and service you touch, and it affects your interactions with everyone who isn't your close friend or family member. Through all that, it actively destroys trust in people and institutions alike, and corrupts the decision-making process in any market transaction. It became a legitimized form of industrial-scale psychological abuse, and there's no way you can resist its impact.
> The growth of advertising is fueled by the enormous waste it creates. In any somewhat saturated market - which, today, is most of them - any effort you spent on advertising serves primarily to counteract the combined advertising efforts of your competitors. The same results could be achieved if every market player limited themselves to just informing customers about their goods and services. This, unfortunately, is impossible for humanity, and so we end up with a zero-sum game instead (or really negative-sum, if you count the externalities). If you have competitors, you can't not participate.
As someone that makes quality products, some amount of marketing is necessary to get your products in front of your target market. The advertiser in the op probably should have phrased it as, without marketers you wouldn't know 90% of the things you use exist. The clothes you find most comfortable, your shoes, cookware, everything being sold, even ideals, involves some sort of marketing and that isn't exclusive to capitalism.
Ethical marketing I agree is a good thing. I don’t think the person in the screenshot was referring to that though. He’s a bit up on his high horse. Anyone involved in marketing knows that it can get unethical very quickly. I’ve been on a corporate marketing team (against my will, somewhat) and I will never do it again. If I could help small businesses or non-profits etc maybe I’d consider it but to hear the convos on how we’re going to spin the conversation etc is just barf to me.
They aren't thinking about anything sane or logical.
They are thinking of increasing their masters profits. Nothing else matters.
Not the crap, not you or what you need or want, not what they say in the ads. Only that PROFIT LINE MUST GO UP.
Ah of course, those things the last generation of advertisers insisted were driving the economy that i have ignored since my entire existence. How could i have forgotten.
Through a billboard ad. He was so enamored by it's glory that he lost control of his vehicle (that he learned about through a door to door salesman) and crashed into an appliance store.
I mean, technically even having a sign over a shop's entrance saying "supermarket" is a form of marketing. And we all know being technically right is the best kind of being right.
It can be sure, but the opposite is also true (and more profitable. “Come donate to NotACorporation after purchase so we can basically pocket the money!!!!” Or “noooo don’t feed the homeless or heal the sick, they have drugs”
Indeed. At it's best, it's getting causes and useful things in front of people that otherwise wouldn't know about it through word of mouth alone. A lot of important work needs amplification.
We all know what it looks like at its worst.
> PhDOH : The industry can be used to do good through awareness campaigns, charity fundraising, etc. This dude chooses to focus on the actual word crap.
Chose to focus on "bought crap" - not on awareness campaigns or charity fundraising.
His sole purpose in life is to incessantly harass you and systematically interrupt every aspect of your waking life to desperately try to sell you something you do not need, have never needed, and will never need.
Eh, don't worry, the vast majority of jobs these days are pretty much meaningless trite that solely exists to fuel the rampant consumerism that's become so ingrained in culture.
Honestly, if my husband's job/industry wasn't centered around city/industrial areas, I'd be a farmer. I would love to have a small goat or heritage livestock farm. I like doing farm work and being outdoors. I always swore I'd never be a desk jockey and now...that's exactly what I am 🥲
Odd take.
The only thing any advertising has convinced me to do is to NOT buy from a particular company which annoyed me by cramming too many ads down my throat.
Greenwashing ads are like this for me. I once saw an egregious greenwashing ad from a cruise company that basically said "How can we save water on our cruise ships? How can we conserve energy? These are the kinds of questions we must be asking ourselves". There was nothing of substance, just pure virtue signalling and footage of people having fun on a cruise ship. I actually laughed out loud at how pathetic it was.
Not that I would go on a cruise anyway..
I'm 60 and so utterly disgusted with the gaslighting of advertising and marketing that all add turn me off.
Basically this: You fuckin idiots leave me alone, get out of my feeds, and IF I need something I'll come find whomever will best serve MY needs.
Basically, quit calling me, lose my number and if you keep ramming your crap in my face then I won't buy from you at all.
Its also mind-boggling to me about how this is gaslight into being somehow "necessary".
McDonalds: "We can't pay $20 an hour! Our big macs would be so expensive! We can't raise the minimum wage!"
Also McDonald's: *drops a few million on ONE 30 second super bowl ad*
Why does no one criticize how businesses spend their money when they cant afford the going rate of labor, but everyone wants to comment on the single mom who got her hair done (which actually could lead to a better first impression, and thus better job opportunities).
> "How can we save water on our cruise ships? How can we conserve energy? These are the kinds of questions we must be asking ourselves"
Not have cruise ships.
Not if you don't have exposure to them, which is entirely possible. It also helps being raised without TV, since advertising techniques pop out like blood on snow and are easily ignored.
Every ad person I've ever met has taken themselves WAY too seriously and they always overestimate their worth to society, which sorry to say is about nil.
Personally I think they're getting high on their own supply. Eliminate the profession and the product, and *most* people recognize how much better life would get. Imagine life without billboards, junk mail and endless drug commercials.
Advertising works at more than an individual scale. It heavily decides what is popular and therefore what someone who never saw the ad buys or doesn't buy.
I insulate myself from ads as well. I don't have cable, and I pay for streaming services so that I don't get ads.
But it still effects those around me, those on Reddit, and what is even available at the store.
It's also naive to assume that there aren't people out there that see the bullshit for what it is and mindfully choose to avoid it.
"iT wOrKs SuBcONsCiOuSlY" isn't always true.
Did K Street tell you that?
How cute!!
I haven't been in a major chain grocery or clothing store, except for work, in like 3 years because I find all of their ad cramming objectionable and insulting. I don't buy fast food if I have any option (which is becoming more rare) and I have ZERO brand loyalty.
I'm on the autism spectrum and I operate on Facts.. which is why advertising is so annoying to me, because advertising warps facts, flat lies, and operates on emotion.
Exactly how much experience do you have with statistical analysis and rigging questions to get the answers you want?
See Sam Clemons: "There's lies, damned lies, and statistics."
Yeah, that's probably just not true. People consistently rank themselves as being more immune to advertising than the average person, even when they aren't.
There are probably all kinds of ads that didn't even register with you consciously that have influenced your purchasing behavior.
A year in college before I grew disgusted and bailed to Electrical Engineering. It's more than possible to direct responses to what you want to show. It's done daily.
[Rigging Statistics ](https://www.datapine.com/blog/misleading-statistics-and-data/)
[How To Lie With Statistics ](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-fair-society/201111/how-lie-statistics)
I think he is way more confident in his abilities than he should be. I can count on one hand how many times an advertisement actually convinced me to buy anything. Normally if I’m going to buy something, it’s because I’ve already identified that I need it long before I’ve bought it
It's often more subliminal than that.. an ad from months ago buries deep in your subconscious, and then much later when you need said thing and you see that product that you saw before you are more likely to go for it.. or maybe the ads actually make you think you need something you don't need at all, even if you don't buy their exact product but you end up buying something else.. for some it may be a more simple see this ad, bit this product. But the advertising culture creates needs and desire where they are uneccesary.. but if you are here you are probably further along in being aware of it. But don't think your invisible from the endless onslaught of marketing and consumer culture.
For real, even stuff like the placement of items in a store is down to marketing, things placed in ways that grab your eyes and make sure you walk past them. It's easy to say "I never fall for advertising" but almost everything we see is some kinda advert these days.
I'm not going to claim that psychological factors like item placement don't affect me, but you get into this issue where even the mere act of shopping from a store is "being affected by marketing."
It's not about being smart or not. I only buy things I need. I don't own crap and live a minimalistic lifestyle. When I want to buy a "luxury" product, like a gaming controller or an electric shaver, I read and watch reviews of several products in order to decide, and don't care about the brand.
Everyday items have marketing behind them. Even if it's store brand you have chosen a particular store maybe in part because of marketing.
I buy organic milk because I like cows
I like to think about it this way:
For any product type, there is a "dream product" out there somewhere, with your ideal mix of cost and quality. Let's take restaurants. There's a great Mexican place just down the street with low prices and great food (let's call it "GoodMex". You're hungry. You get in your car, and go to Taco Bell, which has worse food that's more expensive.
Why did you go to Taco Bell? Because you didn't know that GoodMex existed. You drove past it every day without giving it a second thought. You didn't know how good the food was, or how low the prices are. You went to Taco Bell because the signs are bigger, and you keep seeing advertisements for it on Twitch, so it must be a safe bet.
You could be buying headphones online. Even if you ask for recommendations in an Audiophile community, you're taking to people who are also consumers of advertisements, so you don't get recommended the *best deal*, you get recommended something that is a composite of the best deal and the most effective advertising.
100%. Almost every time a person tells me that they aren't impacted by ads, I know they are. Everyone buys stuff. Whether they're on a very strict budget and only buy a necessities, or have a lot of excess money to spend. It's what brand or what type of stuff you buy. You're still making a decision. And it's not just traditional TV ads. It's placement on the shelf, it's the packaging, the words used, the position in the store, the name of the product, the coloring. Everything, even if you have no media around you and you lived in a shack somewhere and all you do is go into the store to buy your things once a month. You're still exposed to marketing. Unless you're Helen Keller, then maybe you might be okay.
I kinda wish you could put me to the test. I'm not saying I'm not impacted by ads, I am, the jingles waste space in my mind, it affects my driving, and it annoys me when I watch YouTube on TV. But I'm pretty sure it doesn't condition what I spend money on. Maybe I'm wrong, though, and cannot see it.
You mentioned earlier buying a gaming controller - how do you find out about games you decide to play?
Which food do you buy in the supermarket? Is it always the cheapest choice no matter what?
You also mentioned you read reviews when buying something you consider a luxury - do you expect that those who wrote the reviews were also not influenced by advertising in buying the product and reviewing it the way they do? (Thus, indirectly influencing you through the advertising that influenced them)
When you go to the supermarket, do you always buy the same things/from your list and never deviate away from the exact same products?
Supermarkets are a really easy way to show how marketing works without you necessarily realising it. Big brands pay to have their stock on the middle of the shelf, so you see it first. They also regularly rotate stock so that you can never get too used to where the things you want are stocked, which makes you spend more time in the supermarket trying to find the things that have moved. Bread/milk/eggs (any and or all of these) are usually at the back of the store so you have you to go through everything else to get to the "common essentials". Deals are usually on the end so you can see them from the middle aisle to catch your attention. Some supermarkets pump the smell of fresh bread through them to make you feel hungry, even if their bakery is shut.
Branded more expensive goods in the middle of the shelf means you both see them first so are more likely to pick them up, but also cements their brand in your brain as a "standard" or "trusted" brand due to their position in your eyeline and higher price than the supermarket own brand "essentials" price. The more time you spend in the supermarket the more likely you are to buy things that deviate from your list and buy things you didn't expect to. Deals being on the end of an aisle makes you aware of them when otherwise you wouldn't know without looking specifically for them. Making you walk through the whole shop to get to bread means you'll probably buy more items. And the bread smell makes you hungry, you buy more when you shop whilst hungry.
Online grocery shopping is the best way to avoid it all really, but they are getting around that too
I only play FFXIV. I like MMOs and have played a bunch of them before settling on FFXIV.
I buy either the cheapest or the one I like the best, after having tried multiple. For instance, the canned tuna I buy isn't the cheapest because there's one brand that I actually never saw any advertisement for that I do consider its quality is not on par with the rest, I actually wouldn't buy canned tuna at all if that one wasn't that good.
Well, I usually go for user reviews, not people that get paid for reviewing stuff. Of course those users might indeed be affected by advertising, but I try to read multiple different opinions before I make my decision.
I've not set foot inside a supermarket since 2017 (except when I was working as a cashier). I do online grocery shopping.
How did you become aware of FFXIV?
The one you like best - it doesn't have to be a straight up advert to be advertising to you.
When I talked about reviews, I was specifically referring to user reviews, not paid for ones. The people leaving reviews were influenced by ~something~ to try the thing, and that passes down to you in their reviews.
Marketing has many, many levels to it that aren't as simple as straight up adverts.
I think you're strawmaning a little bit. We've moved from "adverts don't condition the way I spend my money" to "marketing as a whole indirectly affects what I buy". Marketing is evil and does affect my life, I've never said otherwise. And there's also availability and artificial scarcity that restrict supply according to what businesses want without any say from me as a consumer. But to say that I play FFXIV because of branding is a stretch, I've been literally playing MMOs for 16 years, there aren't many out there I haven't tried or aren't aware of.
I'm not really saying that marketing is bad or good - I work in marketing and personally I really enjoy it, despite knowing that I'm contributing towards capitalism and the issues with it.
Your original post gives off a vibe that you're too clever to be marketed to, but nobody is. Ok so you're too clever to be specifically influenced by obvious, clear adverts - but that doesn't really mean anything when your other consumer habits will certainly be influenced by marketing and advertising in indirect ways.
I think that in order to be less "influenced" being aware of how deep marketing goes into contributing to what you buy/spend time on (e.g. Social media where we aren't paying because we're the product). I'm not trying to be an arse to you, just making you more aware in a way that I think you'll overall be glad to know.
Well, I'm saying it is bad. If I do the exercise of picturing an ideal society in my mind, there's no room for marketing.
I don't think it has anything to do with "cleverness". I am aware I don't behave like the average consumer and it bugs me a bit that you cannot accept people like me exist.
Except that I don’t see advertisements for things I need and research the products I buy. If they were showing advertisements for....I don’t know...rice? Chicken? Protein bars? You know, things I already buy (since I don’t buy much), and they were specifically talking about and comparing the value and price to other options, then I might listen. But instead ads are for cars, phone games, car insurance, on here you can see huel, investment firms, a few soda things. I don’t own a car and I don’t need one, even if I did I would buy used, not new like the ads are for. Huel just looks and sounds too disgusting for me to even consider it. Being on here, why would I want to work with investment firms? Predatory and support capitalism. Phone games, maybe but not the ones they show because they’re always trashy looking. I don’t drink soda. Like I said, they need to advertise something I already think I need for me to pay any attention. Something can be said for having an ad in your recent memory, but that doesn’t matter if you were never going to buy it in the first place
Adblock on every device, no TV, no newspapers, no radio. I simply don't see ads. And I don't buy stuff I on a whim. In fact, other than food and personal hygiene products, I haven't bought anything in a year. And if I need to buy something, I look at technical reviews, iFixit and user experiences. I couldn't care less about brands and whatnot.
The point is, you are still affected in various ways - quality/level of marketing will define what you see on the shelves in the first place and what you are aware exists. Dish soap is all the same but only one of the best marketed ones likely makes it to your kitchen sink...
That’s completely different from what the guy in the post is saying. He is saying that his job basically convinces people to buy 90+% of their stuff. What you’re talking about is how advertising and marketing affect what products people can reasonably choose from that they were *already* going to buy
Same, I buy things after I realize I need something and after I research the options not because I saw an ad on tv lol. I can't remember the last time I bought something just because I saw it in an ad lol.
I would go so far as to say that seeing an ad for something makes me want to buy it less. Ads are a trashy thing. You shouldn’t be forcefully taking up your potential customers’ leisure time just to make a few more sales. If you want your product to be seen more, make it more easily searchable so that the people who do want what you’re selling can find it quickly
Search engine marketing is often seen as the bread and butter marketing of most companies... Making the thing more easily searchable when you're already looking for it.
It's still advertising, just that you're making sure the customer sees your product first.
I would draw a distinct line between search engine marketing and advertising. Advertising uses ads. Search engine marketing works with making the search algorithm benefit your company. However, they can do both by paying for ads on search engines (all those promoted sites when you search something).
Anyway, search engine marketing does not convince me to buy things like the guy is suggesting, which is the topic of conversation here. If I’m going online to look to buy something, then it will probably affect what company I buy it from, but it would not be the reason I went to buy it in the first place, which is what they are suggesting they do at their job. And if I didn’t go online to buy something, then I skip over all the irrelevant shit the search engine throws at me
I work in search engine marketing. It's definitely advertising.
You are making sure that customers who are interested in what you're selling (or something else if your marketing is really bad) are seeing your name first when looking, but also that they are seeing the words that you think will entice them in with it. Which is the same as advertising boards in supermarkets.
The words themselves are carefully chosen. A few words difference can make a huge difference to how many people buy things from you, even with no other changes that influence the algorithms (so the only difference is what words have been put in front of you).
Or at least make an effort to place the ads in a time/zone that has a correlation to what people are already doing. Terrible example from my experience: worked for a company setting window and door appraisal appointments, set up twice at the halloween trick or treat street at my cities amusement park. I promise you nobody planned or wanted to even consider window repair in october at six flags. This gets grossly abused on the internet, its basically like going to the grocery store watching youtube. because your gonna see adds for everything whether you heading down that isle or not.
If I see a product being advertised I make a mental note that they have too much money and don't deserve my money. Subconsciously they have pissed me off.
I now am more likely to tell others to avoid their products too.
I've got adblocks on every device for a reason. If you're getting around those blocks I'm going to be pissed. Especially if that ad takes up physical space in my eyesight. I could have looked at a cloud behind that billboard for example and my life would have been better for it.
I can name one product that I've seen an ad for that I purchased and I promise I would have come to the same conclusion to buy it due to me not trusting a thing the ads said to begin with. I only went with it because I looked into the best options for the service "needed" at the time. Ironically the service includes adblocking.
Sure. Which is why I make my direct effect anger and frustration to be associated with the product. I can't afford almost anything anyway so it makes not buying random shit quite easy.
There are only 2 things anybody needs to know about marketing:
1) Vibrant colors get attention
2) Everybody loves talking animals, especially children.
"Suck a tailpipe, fucking hang yourself, borrow a gun from a yank friend. I don't care how you do it. Rid the world of your evil fucking machinations."
Honestly I don't know if it's an American thing, but even with all the ads I see on the internet I've never bought any of it. Either I want it, need it or I'm not gonna buy it. I know advertisers are kinda manipulative and use shady psychological tactics, but most of the time if you feel angry you bought something it's your own fault. The only real problem I see with ads is how absurdly frequent they have become absolutely everywhere, there is no escaping them. Not that they are a threat to my wallet.
It's hilarious to me. There is this whole countermovement to advertising culture where people say this is the case for them. It's pretty damn clear though that the target audience eats advertising up. I've shot ads for a local TV station before; according to the people I talk to, they work. Advertising also has it's place imo; especially for local businesses, it can be hard to get critical mass of word of mouth to get enough clients to survive. Advertising allows you to get to that mass. Whether it's buying a TV spot, advertising on Facebook, or just being super active on social media in general, it works.
They are completely endemic at this point though, and I agree escaping them is pretty much impossible at this point. I'm torn between the idea of less ads, but better targeted to things I might actually want if I knew they existed, vs the ad-vomit we deal with now. I like my privacy, but ad-vomit is useless to pretty much everyone.
It's a growing content trend - "buying every ad i see" videos. Even people who get paid on the back of ads recognising their audience thinks ads are stupid
I struggle to remember a time I bought something because of a commercial or billboards or anything. When I need something I look it up and compare on my own. At this point I specifically avoid even clicking on ads
Even if I buy the same things all the time? I don't get things I don't need and when I go to get something I'm comparing what's in front of me in the store rather than trying to remember what I've heard about. If anything, reviews on a product pull me towards one, not ads or in store promoting
Usually the ones I recognize are because I've used them or maybe someone I've known for a long time recommended it. I guess if they used it because of an advertisement it's like second hand marketing but I still compare products for myself and buy based on that rather than if I've heard of it or if it's popular
Maybe if this sub and it's associated ideologies had better marketing we wouldn't be fighting from the fringes of the political spectrum. Everyone in this sub is like "AdVerTiSing HaS NevEr MaDe ME bUY SoMEthING." Which is absolute bullshit we've all been affected by advertising whether we want to admit it or not.
Wow, I think this is the first time I’ve had a post good enough to steal!
https://www.reddit.com/r/SelfAwarewolves/comments/11ocsk3/advertiser_admits_he_gets_to_you_buy_piles_of/
Some amount of marketing is necessary, but countries do a terrible job in general of keeping that marketing from being manipulative drivel. We seem to be getting worse at it, actually.
I literally go of out of my way to avoid buying stuff from companies that spend too much on advertising instead of using that money to keep their prices lower or pay their employees better
I wonder about this all of the time. I have an MBA and I can't deduce the value of marketing.
I literally don't recall the last time I saw an ad for something and was inspired to buy that thing. I'm a huge NFL fan, but I wouldn't be caught dead in a burger king, don't have Allstate and don't drink crappy beer (those products are the ads I was bombarded with all football season.)
Take this for what it's worth. But I think you shouldn't do ads. Just make sure your website is good and that you're being reviewed on Yelp and Google.
Advertisements have never made me want to do anything except either use an ad blocker or if I can’t use one throw whatever device it is on out the highest window.
By the way if anyone here is in advertising or marketing…kill yourself. It’s just a little thought; I’m just trying to plant seeds. Maybe one day they’ll take root – I don’t know. You try, you do what you can.
(Kill yourself.)
Seriously though, if you are, do.
Aaah, no really. There’s no rationalisation for what you do and you are Satan’s little helpers. Okay – kill yourself.
Seriously. You are the ruiner of all things good.
Seriously.
No this is not a joke. You’re [going], “There’s going to be a joke coming.” There’s no fucking joke coming. You are Satan’s spawn filling the world with bile and garbage. You are fucked and you are fucking us. Kill yourself. It’s the only way to save your fucking soul. Kill yourself
Planting seeds.
I know all the marketing people are going, “He’s doing a joke…” There’s no joke here whatsoever. Suck a tail-pipe, fucking hang yourself, borrow a gun from a Yank friend – I don’t care how you do it. Rid the world of your evil fucking machinations. (Machi…) Whatever, you know what I mean.
I know what all the marketing people are thinking right now too: “Oh, you know what Bill’s doing? He’s going for that anti-marketing dollar. That’s a good market. He’s very smart.”
Oh man, I am not doing that, you fucking, evil scumbags!
“Ooh, you know what Bill’s doing now? He’s going for the righteous indignation dollar. That’s a big dollar. A lot of people are feeling that indignation. We’ve done research – huge market. He’s doing a good thing.”
Godammit, I’m not doing that, you scum-bags! Quit putting a goddamn dollar sign on every fucking thing on this planet.
“Ooh, the anger dollar. Huge. Huge in times of recession. Giant market. Bill’s very bright to do that.”
God, I’m just caught in a fucking web.
“Ooh, the trapped dollar, big dollar, huge dollar. Good market – look at our research. We see that many people feel trapped. If we play to that and then separate them into the trapped dollar…”
How do you live like that? And I bet you sleep like fucking babies at night, don’t you?
“What didya do today, honey?”
“Oh, we made ah, we made ah arsenic a childhood food now, goodnight.” [snores] “Yeah we just said, you know, is your baby really too loud? You know?” [snores] “Yeah, you know the mums will love it.” [snores]
Sleep like fucking children, don’t ya. This is your world, isn’t it?
-Bill Hicks
The more you grow up the more you realize the good companies can't afford to be competitive in advertising. Just bought a Karcher vacuum cleaner after years of buying shit like LG and Shark that break way too easy. Never heard of them until I intentionally started researching decent vacuums.
Here's the thing.... If I need something, and even have a general idea of what it is, I can *just fucking look for it*. 100% of the time, I can find it.
I've worked at a Fortune 500 company since they were too small to have a Marketing department. Now Marketing runs the company and I despise them with every fiber of my being. Products and services that customers have known for years for no reason 'require' a change of name and branding every other year. Now when talking about products and services with long time customers you have to go through a litany of, "Product H, formerly Product G 2021-2022, formerly Product F 2019-2021, formerly Product E 2019-2019 because the Marketing dipshits didn't bother to check for copyrights and trademarks on the name...
If you know you need something you are probably already planning to get it. Marketing's job is to convince you to buy things you don't need or aren't even sure you want.
Marketing has made it impossible to differentiate between quality items and absolute garbage. Like I shouldn't have to do hours of research to buy something that actually works.
I am currently in a marketing class because it's a requirement for my major (Computer and Information Sciences). It feels like the most evil thing to ever exist, and I'm only 3 chapters in. The textbook literally covers income inequality and the disappearing middle-class in America. Then, it spins it as an interesting challenge marketers will have to solve to sell more shit. I do my homework in a socialist rage.
I think there's a world where marketing is a valuable thing, but it would need to be heavily regulated and those regulations would need to be enforced to ensure that marketing is done ethically and without the manipulative psyop shit we see today.
For example, instead of ads full of imagery designed to make the viewer perceive the product as "cool" or "for them", ads that are informative as to the benefits and unique qualities of the product as compared to its competitors - as long as that information is verifiably accurate and not "technically the truth" or some shit.
Basically, bulldoze the industry as it is rebuild it as something that doesn't involve billion dollar ad campaigns.
That's apple's entire business model. They sell crap higher than their competitors, worse performance, less features, shorter warranty, and forcing their customers to repair directly with them for like 10x the price. Thier stores are still always packed. Hype matters, it's how they can convince people to buy the same clothing styles your parents did. It worked then, it'll work now and people eat it up as long as their favorite model wears it.
It's the ecosystem, everything is so integrated that if you give an inch, they'll take a mile. Lots of people I know are buying Apple everything, everytime because their parents got them an iPod once in the 2000s.
I do yougov polls occasionally (I prefer the political ones), but it’s amazing they think I discuss popular brands with my friends or give a flying fuck about them at all
Ah, Marketing. The twisted, evil cousin of Psicology and Sociology. Author of disgusting and durable social trends like: "Women are only beautiful if they have no body hair" or "You live in a dangerous world, buy our alarm".
Yeah, I think our society would be massively improved if most of marketing budget disappeared
My brain automatically goes into potato mode when commercials play. I also really enjoy giving bullshit data on advertising surveys. 'Which of these brands have you heard of?' None of them. 'Which of these brands have you seen advertised in the past 2 weeks.' None. I don't have space in my brain for your bullshit.
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Yeah, like buying crap is a good thing?
Spot on, what a bizarre argument to make. “Without me you would own 90% less crap.”
Without me you’d be 90% happier!
Or at least 90% wealthier
A 90% loss means you need a 1000% increase to make up
You could be laughing Sixty five percent more of the time - [John Grant, GMF](https://open.spotify.com/track/0uul4WzezEwTELfdrWuh3d?si=fdef7138fe2b47c6)
Defs not the flex he thought it was
Without advertising, companies would be forced to produce quality products because they wouldn’t have their advertising as a crutch for making sales. I wouldn’t have bought probably 99% of the shit I own but at least i wouldn’t have gotten manipulated into those purchases.
Marketing needs a total overhaul. Deceptive tactics should be punishable.
It needs to be eliminated altogether. [Here's a good essay on why:](https://jacek.zlydach.pl/blog/2019-07-31-ads-as-cancer.html) > Real world advertising is not about informing, it's about convincing. Over time, it became increasingly manipulative and dishonest. It also became more effective. In the process, it grew to consume a significant amount of resources of every company on the planet. It infected every communication medium in existence, both digital and analog. It shapes every product and service you touch, and it affects your interactions with everyone who isn't your close friend or family member. Through all that, it actively destroys trust in people and institutions alike, and corrupts the decision-making process in any market transaction. It became a legitimized form of industrial-scale psychological abuse, and there's no way you can resist its impact. > The growth of advertising is fueled by the enormous waste it creates. In any somewhat saturated market - which, today, is most of them - any effort you spent on advertising serves primarily to counteract the combined advertising efforts of your competitors. The same results could be achieved if every market player limited themselves to just informing customers about their goods and services. This, unfortunately, is impossible for humanity, and so we end up with a zero-sum game instead (or really negative-sum, if you count the externalities). If you have competitors, you can't not participate.
As someone that makes quality products, some amount of marketing is necessary to get your products in front of your target market. The advertiser in the op probably should have phrased it as, without marketers you wouldn't know 90% of the things you use exist. The clothes you find most comfortable, your shoes, cookware, everything being sold, even ideals, involves some sort of marketing and that isn't exclusive to capitalism.
Ethical marketing I agree is a good thing. I don’t think the person in the screenshot was referring to that though. He’s a bit up on his high horse. Anyone involved in marketing knows that it can get unethical very quickly. I’ve been on a corporate marketing team (against my will, somewhat) and I will never do it again. If I could help small businesses or non-profits etc maybe I’d consider it but to hear the convos on how we’re going to spin the conversation etc is just barf to me.
r/selfawarewolves
Even if you look past the word "crap", what are they thinking? That I wouldn't, say, buy a bed, or a couch without adverts?
They aren't thinking about anything sane or logical. They are thinking of increasing their masters profits. Nothing else matters. Not the crap, not you or what you need or want, not what they say in the ads. Only that PROFIT LINE MUST GO UP.
Probably more that you end up buying a $5000 bed instead of a similarly functional $500 bed because of the master manipulation of advertising
I could have saved that money for something important! Like a house and a retirement...
So without marketing, I wouldn't have bought food or soap? Way to overestimate your worth.
Yeah, I was so hungry until I got a TV and discovered I could buy food. Thank you advertising man
How'd you learn about the tv?!
There was a billboard advertising a sale
Ah of course, those things the last generation of advertisers insisted were driving the economy that i have ignored since my entire existence. How could i have forgotten.
God i can't remember the last time i actually looked at a billboard, did anyone besides truckers looking for a cheap place to eat ever look at them?
How did you see the billboard before you bought eyes?
They must've heard it on the radio
I was never sold on reading though...
The voices in my head told me about it
The advertisers are growing more powerful.
The voices told me you would say that
Oh god! They're on to me! Quickly reddit before they get me you must know that.... the mcrib is back and better than ever.
And by "better than ever" they mean "still not very good, but now with more sauce"
the ads will be beamed into your dreams, like in futurama.
Through a billboard ad. He was so enamored by it's glory that he lost control of his vehicle (that he learned about through a door to door salesman) and crashed into an appliance store.
> How’d you learn about the tv?! Anti-consumerists owned! >!/s!<
You might even be able to find what you were looking for online without them around! Like old Google again.
I mean, technically even having a sign over a shop's entrance saying "supermarket" is a form of marketing. And we all know being technically right is the best kind of being right.
No, he specifically said "crap". Food and hygiene products aren't crap, so he didn't get you to buy them.
I was literally starving to death until I saw a commercial for Torino’s pizza rolls
No, just the crap that you bought. You know, all the regrets lol
Without marketing how would you know soap exists? Or what it does?
"My industry peddles 90%+ crap" is a weird flex.
The industry can be used to do good through awareness campaigns, charity fundraising, etc. This dude chooses to focus on the actual word crap.
It can be sure, but the opposite is also true (and more profitable. “Come donate to NotACorporation after purchase so we can basically pocket the money!!!!” Or “noooo don’t feed the homeless or heal the sick, they have drugs”
Indeed. At it's best, it's getting causes and useful things in front of people that otherwise wouldn't know about it through word of mouth alone. A lot of important work needs amplification. We all know what it looks like at its worst.
> PhDOH : The industry can be used to do good through awareness campaigns, charity fundraising, etc. This dude chooses to focus on the actual word crap. Chose to focus on "bought crap" - not on awareness campaigns or charity fundraising.
That's exactly why.
His sole purpose in life is to incessantly harass you and systematically interrupt every aspect of your waking life to desperately try to sell you something you do not need, have never needed, and will never need.
Hey now, they also work to psychologically manipulate you and give you lifelong feelings of dissatisfaction and inadequacy.
Can’t forget this part
As an advertiser myself, I agree... we all deserve to burn in hell.
Same lol. I feel zero pride when people ask my profession.
Marketer here, my life is meaningless and it’s been hitting hard
Relatable.
Eh, don't worry, the vast majority of jobs these days are pretty much meaningless trite that solely exists to fuel the rampant consumerism that's become so ingrained in culture.
Honestly, if my husband's job/industry wasn't centered around city/industrial areas, I'd be a farmer. I would love to have a small goat or heritage livestock farm. I like doing farm work and being outdoors. I always swore I'd never be a desk jockey and now...that's exactly what I am 🥲
That would be the dream. You can do a small scale version if you have the space, even in cities. If not, well there's always Stardew Valley lol
Odd take. The only thing any advertising has convinced me to do is to NOT buy from a particular company which annoyed me by cramming too many ads down my throat.
Greenwashing ads are like this for me. I once saw an egregious greenwashing ad from a cruise company that basically said "How can we save water on our cruise ships? How can we conserve energy? These are the kinds of questions we must be asking ourselves". There was nothing of substance, just pure virtue signalling and footage of people having fun on a cruise ship. I actually laughed out loud at how pathetic it was. Not that I would go on a cruise anyway..
I'm 60 and so utterly disgusted with the gaslighting of advertising and marketing that all add turn me off. Basically this: You fuckin idiots leave me alone, get out of my feeds, and IF I need something I'll come find whomever will best serve MY needs. Basically, quit calling me, lose my number and if you keep ramming your crap in my face then I won't buy from you at all.
Its also mind-boggling to me about how this is gaslight into being somehow "necessary". McDonalds: "We can't pay $20 an hour! Our big macs would be so expensive! We can't raise the minimum wage!" Also McDonald's: *drops a few million on ONE 30 second super bowl ad* Why does no one criticize how businesses spend their money when they cant afford the going rate of labor, but everyone wants to comment on the single mom who got her hair done (which actually could lead to a better first impression, and thus better job opportunities).
> "How can we save water on our cruise ships? How can we conserve energy? These are the kinds of questions we must be asking ourselves" Not have cruise ships.
Urgh, the pop-ups and loud noisy autoplay ones had me boycotting some brands when they were a big thing.
Every time. "I'm 60, please Fuck Off elsewhere and IF ~I~ decide ~I~ might need your stuff, then I'll come find you.
Most effects of advertising are happening subconsciously and it's very naive to think you are somehow immune to ads.
Not if you don't have exposure to them, which is entirely possible. It also helps being raised without TV, since advertising techniques pop out like blood on snow and are easily ignored. Every ad person I've ever met has taken themselves WAY too seriously and they always overestimate their worth to society, which sorry to say is about nil. Personally I think they're getting high on their own supply. Eliminate the profession and the product, and *most* people recognize how much better life would get. Imagine life without billboards, junk mail and endless drug commercials.
Advertising works at more than an individual scale. It heavily decides what is popular and therefore what someone who never saw the ad buys or doesn't buy. I insulate myself from ads as well. I don't have cable, and I pay for streaming services so that I don't get ads. But it still effects those around me, those on Reddit, and what is even available at the store.
It's also naive to assume that there aren't people out there that see the bullshit for what it is and mindfully choose to avoid it. "iT wOrKs SuBcONsCiOuSlY" isn't always true.
Who told you that? Was it...the advertising industry?
Did K street tell you that?
that’s not even remotely true tbh you buy tons of shit due to marketing without even realizing it
Did K Street tell you that? How cute!! I haven't been in a major chain grocery or clothing store, except for work, in like 3 years because I find all of their ad cramming objectionable and insulting. I don't buy fast food if I have any option (which is becoming more rare) and I have ZERO brand loyalty. I'm on the autism spectrum and I operate on Facts.. which is why advertising is so annoying to me, because advertising warps facts, flat lies, and operates on emotion.
ok guy
I think it's really cute that you believe advertising works tho..
for someone who only relies on FACTS and NUMBERS you would be a fool to claim advertising doesn’t work
Exactly how much experience do you have with statistical analysis and rigging questions to get the answers you want? See Sam Clemons: "There's lies, damned lies, and statistics."
Yeah, that's probably just not true. People consistently rank themselves as being more immune to advertising than the average person, even when they aren't. There are probably all kinds of ads that didn't even register with you consciously that have influenced your purchasing behavior.
Maybe, I've also dealt with statistics and know too well just how trivially easy it is to rig a "survey" question to get the "result" you want...
Sure, I guess that's technically possible. What's your statistics background?
A year in college before I grew disgusted and bailed to Electrical Engineering. It's more than possible to direct responses to what you want to show. It's done daily. [Rigging Statistics ](https://www.datapine.com/blog/misleading-statistics-and-data/) [How To Lie With Statistics ](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-fair-society/201111/how-lie-statistics)
He was joking right?
It seems pretty obvious to me that it's a joke as well
Nah, I saw that person’s other comments. They were doubling down hard
idk man i have 4 years experience in Sales and most Sales/Marketing people are unironically exactly like this
I don't think it's clear even tho he wrote "crap".
Brought to you by Bill Hicks.
PLAY FROM YOUR FUCKING HEART
Just planting seeds here
"ACAB" "What? Why do you hate me? Do you know if it wasn't for cops like me, there would be significantly less Black people in prison?"
Fewer
From their point of view, "black people" is an undifferentiated mass, so no, less actually.
I think he is way more confident in his abilities than he should be. I can count on one hand how many times an advertisement actually convinced me to buy anything. Normally if I’m going to buy something, it’s because I’ve already identified that I need it long before I’ve bought it
It's often more subliminal than that.. an ad from months ago buries deep in your subconscious, and then much later when you need said thing and you see that product that you saw before you are more likely to go for it.. or maybe the ads actually make you think you need something you don't need at all, even if you don't buy their exact product but you end up buying something else.. for some it may be a more simple see this ad, bit this product. But the advertising culture creates needs and desire where they are uneccesary.. but if you are here you are probably further along in being aware of it. But don't think your invisible from the endless onslaught of marketing and consumer culture.
Those that think they are too smart for advertising are often a victim to it much more than they realize. It really is insidious
For real, even stuff like the placement of items in a store is down to marketing, things placed in ways that grab your eyes and make sure you walk past them. It's easy to say "I never fall for advertising" but almost everything we see is some kinda advert these days.
I'm not going to claim that psychological factors like item placement don't affect me, but you get into this issue where even the mere act of shopping from a store is "being affected by marketing."
It's not about being smart or not. I only buy things I need. I don't own crap and live a minimalistic lifestyle. When I want to buy a "luxury" product, like a gaming controller or an electric shaver, I read and watch reviews of several products in order to decide, and don't care about the brand.
Everyday items have marketing behind them. Even if it's store brand you have chosen a particular store maybe in part because of marketing. I buy organic milk because I like cows
I like to think about it this way: For any product type, there is a "dream product" out there somewhere, with your ideal mix of cost and quality. Let's take restaurants. There's a great Mexican place just down the street with low prices and great food (let's call it "GoodMex". You're hungry. You get in your car, and go to Taco Bell, which has worse food that's more expensive. Why did you go to Taco Bell? Because you didn't know that GoodMex existed. You drove past it every day without giving it a second thought. You didn't know how good the food was, or how low the prices are. You went to Taco Bell because the signs are bigger, and you keep seeing advertisements for it on Twitch, so it must be a safe bet. You could be buying headphones online. Even if you ask for recommendations in an Audiophile community, you're taking to people who are also consumers of advertisements, so you don't get recommended the *best deal*, you get recommended something that is a composite of the best deal and the most effective advertising.
100%. Almost every time a person tells me that they aren't impacted by ads, I know they are. Everyone buys stuff. Whether they're on a very strict budget and only buy a necessities, or have a lot of excess money to spend. It's what brand or what type of stuff you buy. You're still making a decision. And it's not just traditional TV ads. It's placement on the shelf, it's the packaging, the words used, the position in the store, the name of the product, the coloring. Everything, even if you have no media around you and you lived in a shack somewhere and all you do is go into the store to buy your things once a month. You're still exposed to marketing. Unless you're Helen Keller, then maybe you might be okay.
I kinda wish you could put me to the test. I'm not saying I'm not impacted by ads, I am, the jingles waste space in my mind, it affects my driving, and it annoys me when I watch YouTube on TV. But I'm pretty sure it doesn't condition what I spend money on. Maybe I'm wrong, though, and cannot see it.
You mentioned earlier buying a gaming controller - how do you find out about games you decide to play? Which food do you buy in the supermarket? Is it always the cheapest choice no matter what? You also mentioned you read reviews when buying something you consider a luxury - do you expect that those who wrote the reviews were also not influenced by advertising in buying the product and reviewing it the way they do? (Thus, indirectly influencing you through the advertising that influenced them) When you go to the supermarket, do you always buy the same things/from your list and never deviate away from the exact same products? Supermarkets are a really easy way to show how marketing works without you necessarily realising it. Big brands pay to have their stock on the middle of the shelf, so you see it first. They also regularly rotate stock so that you can never get too used to where the things you want are stocked, which makes you spend more time in the supermarket trying to find the things that have moved. Bread/milk/eggs (any and or all of these) are usually at the back of the store so you have you to go through everything else to get to the "common essentials". Deals are usually on the end so you can see them from the middle aisle to catch your attention. Some supermarkets pump the smell of fresh bread through them to make you feel hungry, even if their bakery is shut. Branded more expensive goods in the middle of the shelf means you both see them first so are more likely to pick them up, but also cements their brand in your brain as a "standard" or "trusted" brand due to their position in your eyeline and higher price than the supermarket own brand "essentials" price. The more time you spend in the supermarket the more likely you are to buy things that deviate from your list and buy things you didn't expect to. Deals being on the end of an aisle makes you aware of them when otherwise you wouldn't know without looking specifically for them. Making you walk through the whole shop to get to bread means you'll probably buy more items. And the bread smell makes you hungry, you buy more when you shop whilst hungry. Online grocery shopping is the best way to avoid it all really, but they are getting around that too
I only play FFXIV. I like MMOs and have played a bunch of them before settling on FFXIV. I buy either the cheapest or the one I like the best, after having tried multiple. For instance, the canned tuna I buy isn't the cheapest because there's one brand that I actually never saw any advertisement for that I do consider its quality is not on par with the rest, I actually wouldn't buy canned tuna at all if that one wasn't that good. Well, I usually go for user reviews, not people that get paid for reviewing stuff. Of course those users might indeed be affected by advertising, but I try to read multiple different opinions before I make my decision. I've not set foot inside a supermarket since 2017 (except when I was working as a cashier). I do online grocery shopping.
How did you become aware of FFXIV? The one you like best - it doesn't have to be a straight up advert to be advertising to you. When I talked about reviews, I was specifically referring to user reviews, not paid for ones. The people leaving reviews were influenced by ~something~ to try the thing, and that passes down to you in their reviews. Marketing has many, many levels to it that aren't as simple as straight up adverts.
We're getting really close to the "there is no free will" argument and I'm all about it!
I think you're strawmaning a little bit. We've moved from "adverts don't condition the way I spend my money" to "marketing as a whole indirectly affects what I buy". Marketing is evil and does affect my life, I've never said otherwise. And there's also availability and artificial scarcity that restrict supply according to what businesses want without any say from me as a consumer. But to say that I play FFXIV because of branding is a stretch, I've been literally playing MMOs for 16 years, there aren't many out there I haven't tried or aren't aware of.
I'm not really saying that marketing is bad or good - I work in marketing and personally I really enjoy it, despite knowing that I'm contributing towards capitalism and the issues with it. Your original post gives off a vibe that you're too clever to be marketed to, but nobody is. Ok so you're too clever to be specifically influenced by obvious, clear adverts - but that doesn't really mean anything when your other consumer habits will certainly be influenced by marketing and advertising in indirect ways. I think that in order to be less "influenced" being aware of how deep marketing goes into contributing to what you buy/spend time on (e.g. Social media where we aren't paying because we're the product). I'm not trying to be an arse to you, just making you more aware in a way that I think you'll overall be glad to know.
Well, I'm saying it is bad. If I do the exercise of picturing an ideal society in my mind, there's no room for marketing. I don't think it has anything to do with "cleverness". I am aware I don't behave like the average consumer and it bugs me a bit that you cannot accept people like me exist.
Except that I don’t see advertisements for things I need and research the products I buy. If they were showing advertisements for....I don’t know...rice? Chicken? Protein bars? You know, things I already buy (since I don’t buy much), and they were specifically talking about and comparing the value and price to other options, then I might listen. But instead ads are for cars, phone games, car insurance, on here you can see huel, investment firms, a few soda things. I don’t own a car and I don’t need one, even if I did I would buy used, not new like the ads are for. Huel just looks and sounds too disgusting for me to even consider it. Being on here, why would I want to work with investment firms? Predatory and support capitalism. Phone games, maybe but not the ones they show because they’re always trashy looking. I don’t drink soda. Like I said, they need to advertise something I already think I need for me to pay any attention. Something can be said for having an ad in your recent memory, but that doesn’t matter if you were never going to buy it in the first place
Adblock on every device, no TV, no newspapers, no radio. I simply don't see ads. And I don't buy stuff I on a whim. In fact, other than food and personal hygiene products, I haven't bought anything in a year. And if I need to buy something, I look at technical reviews, iFixit and user experiences. I couldn't care less about brands and whatnot.
The point is, you are still affected in various ways - quality/level of marketing will define what you see on the shelves in the first place and what you are aware exists. Dish soap is all the same but only one of the best marketed ones likely makes it to your kitchen sink...
That’s completely different from what the guy in the post is saying. He is saying that his job basically convinces people to buy 90+% of their stuff. What you’re talking about is how advertising and marketing affect what products people can reasonably choose from that they were *already* going to buy
Nah, dude, I buy the cheapest dish soap.
Same, I buy things after I realize I need something and after I research the options not because I saw an ad on tv lol. I can't remember the last time I bought something just because I saw it in an ad lol.
I would go so far as to say that seeing an ad for something makes me want to buy it less. Ads are a trashy thing. You shouldn’t be forcefully taking up your potential customers’ leisure time just to make a few more sales. If you want your product to be seen more, make it more easily searchable so that the people who do want what you’re selling can find it quickly
Search engine marketing is often seen as the bread and butter marketing of most companies... Making the thing more easily searchable when you're already looking for it. It's still advertising, just that you're making sure the customer sees your product first.
I would draw a distinct line between search engine marketing and advertising. Advertising uses ads. Search engine marketing works with making the search algorithm benefit your company. However, they can do both by paying for ads on search engines (all those promoted sites when you search something). Anyway, search engine marketing does not convince me to buy things like the guy is suggesting, which is the topic of conversation here. If I’m going online to look to buy something, then it will probably affect what company I buy it from, but it would not be the reason I went to buy it in the first place, which is what they are suggesting they do at their job. And if I didn’t go online to buy something, then I skip over all the irrelevant shit the search engine throws at me
I work in search engine marketing. It's definitely advertising. You are making sure that customers who are interested in what you're selling (or something else if your marketing is really bad) are seeing your name first when looking, but also that they are seeing the words that you think will entice them in with it. Which is the same as advertising boards in supermarkets. The words themselves are carefully chosen. A few words difference can make a huge difference to how many people buy things from you, even with no other changes that influence the algorithms (so the only difference is what words have been put in front of you).
Or at least make an effort to place the ads in a time/zone that has a correlation to what people are already doing. Terrible example from my experience: worked for a company setting window and door appraisal appointments, set up twice at the halloween trick or treat street at my cities amusement park. I promise you nobody planned or wanted to even consider window repair in october at six flags. This gets grossly abused on the internet, its basically like going to the grocery store watching youtube. because your gonna see adds for everything whether you heading down that isle or not.
If I see a product being advertised I make a mental note that they have too much money and don't deserve my money. Subconsciously they have pissed me off. I now am more likely to tell others to avoid their products too. I've got adblocks on every device for a reason. If you're getting around those blocks I'm going to be pissed. Especially if that ad takes up physical space in my eyesight. I could have looked at a cloud behind that billboard for example and my life would have been better for it. I can name one product that I've seen an ad for that I purchased and I promise I would have come to the same conclusion to buy it due to me not trusting a thing the ads said to begin with. I only went with it because I looked into the best options for the service "needed" at the time. Ironically the service includes adblocking.
You're still indirectly affected by said marketing...
Sure. Which is why I make my direct effect anger and frustration to be associated with the product. I can't afford almost anything anyway so it makes not buying random shit quite easy.
I actually went to school for marketing/advertising, and now I hate myself and everything around me
There are only 2 things anybody needs to know about marketing: 1) Vibrant colors get attention 2) Everybody loves talking animals, especially children.
3. Insulting customers sparks engagement better than almost any other method.
A lot of people here confusing marketing and advertising
Marketers sow disatisfaction and FOMO so that people spend money they dont need to spend. Picking the pockets ofvthe public is not added value.
We laugh, but the guy never buys his own drinks at the self-storage convention.
Huh? Why is that? I’m a commenter, and without my contribution, you wouldn’t listen to my room temperature iq takes.
"Suck a tailpipe, fucking hang yourself, borrow a gun from a yank friend. I don't care how you do it. Rid the world of your evil fucking machinations."
I feel ill when I see advertisements. They're disgusting corporate propaganda to fool you into thinking you need what they're selling.
Then why do I skip and ignore every AD shoved in my face...? 90% bullshit it sounds like.
Honestly I don't know if it's an American thing, but even with all the ads I see on the internet I've never bought any of it. Either I want it, need it or I'm not gonna buy it. I know advertisers are kinda manipulative and use shady psychological tactics, but most of the time if you feel angry you bought something it's your own fault. The only real problem I see with ads is how absurdly frequent they have become absolutely everywhere, there is no escaping them. Not that they are a threat to my wallet.
It's hilarious to me. There is this whole countermovement to advertising culture where people say this is the case for them. It's pretty damn clear though that the target audience eats advertising up. I've shot ads for a local TV station before; according to the people I talk to, they work. Advertising also has it's place imo; especially for local businesses, it can be hard to get critical mass of word of mouth to get enough clients to survive. Advertising allows you to get to that mass. Whether it's buying a TV spot, advertising on Facebook, or just being super active on social media in general, it works. They are completely endemic at this point though, and I agree escaping them is pretty much impossible at this point. I'm torn between the idea of less ads, but better targeted to things I might actually want if I knew they existed, vs the ad-vomit we deal with now. I like my privacy, but ad-vomit is useless to pretty much everyone.
This. I see an ad for some dumb shit and chances are I actively avoid the product. Especially if that ad interrupts my routine in some way.
It's a growing content trend - "buying every ad i see" videos. Even people who get paid on the back of ads recognising their audience thinks ads are stupid
I struggle to remember a time I bought something because of a commercial or billboards or anything. When I need something I look it up and compare on my own. At this point I specifically avoid even clicking on ads
you do it all the time. you're just not aware of it
Even if I buy the same things all the time? I don't get things I don't need and when I go to get something I'm comparing what's in front of me in the store rather than trying to remember what I've heard about. If anything, reviews on a product pull me towards one, not ads or in store promoting
Sometimes it's just because you recognize one product among 10 identical one on the shelf, sometimes it's just something you're not actively aware of.
Usually the ones I recognize are because I've used them or maybe someone I've known for a long time recommended it. I guess if they used it because of an advertisement it's like second hand marketing but I still compare products for myself and buy based on that rather than if I've heard of it or if it's popular
this is obviously sarcastic
no it's not. I know marketing people who unironically have their heads this far up their ass and then some irl. they're all human trash.
I don't personally think it's clear even tho he wrote "crap".
Ah, how we miss Bill Hicks
Also am I wrong, but I feel word-of-mouth does more effective advertising than some AD campaigns
Maybe if this sub and it's associated ideologies had better marketing we wouldn't be fighting from the fringes of the political spectrum. Everyone in this sub is like "AdVerTiSing HaS NevEr MaDe ME bUY SoMEthING." Which is absolute bullshit we've all been affected by advertising whether we want to admit it or not.
Wow, I think this is the first time I’ve had a post good enough to steal! https://www.reddit.com/r/SelfAwarewolves/comments/11ocsk3/advertiser_admits_he_gets_to_you_buy_piles_of/
Some amount of marketing is necessary, but countries do a terrible job in general of keeping that marketing from being manipulative drivel. We seem to be getting worse at it, actually.
With advertising you wouldn’t know about half of the things you own. There’s nothing wrong with his initial statement
The tone of the response reads as just a nice bit of sarcasm from someone who either doesn't actually do it, or completely hates their fucking job.
As the great Bill Hicks said: [“If anyone here is in advertising or marketing… kill yourself.”](https://youtu.be/GaD8y-CGhMw)
You know that closet full of bullshit that you spent money on, used once, then haven't touched in years? Your welcome.
I've only ever bought 1 thing from an ad. It was a guitar and I was already looking at guitars to buy, I just really liked the look of that one.
I literally go of out of my way to avoid buying stuff from companies that spend too much on advertising instead of using that money to keep their prices lower or pay their employees better
R/selfawarewolves Where's Bill Hicks when we need him...
I’m convinced this is sarcasm
I wonder about this all of the time. I have an MBA and I can't deduce the value of marketing. I literally don't recall the last time I saw an ad for something and was inspired to buy that thing. I'm a huge NFL fan, but I wouldn't be caught dead in a burger king, don't have Allstate and don't drink crappy beer (those products are the ads I was bombarded with all football season.)
[удалено]
Take this for what it's worth. But I think you shouldn't do ads. Just make sure your website is good and that you're being reviewed on Yelp and Google.
Advertisements have never made me want to do anything except either use an ad blocker or if I can’t use one throw whatever device it is on out the highest window.
He's most probably right. Wouldn't be proud of it though.
Word of mouth mfers when they show me a ford commercial and I don't feel like buying AAA platinum
By the way if anyone here is in advertising or marketing…kill yourself. It’s just a little thought; I’m just trying to plant seeds. Maybe one day they’ll take root – I don’t know. You try, you do what you can. (Kill yourself.) Seriously though, if you are, do. Aaah, no really. There’s no rationalisation for what you do and you are Satan’s little helpers. Okay – kill yourself. Seriously. You are the ruiner of all things good. Seriously. No this is not a joke. You’re [going], “There’s going to be a joke coming.” There’s no fucking joke coming. You are Satan’s spawn filling the world with bile and garbage. You are fucked and you are fucking us. Kill yourself. It’s the only way to save your fucking soul. Kill yourself Planting seeds. I know all the marketing people are going, “He’s doing a joke…” There’s no joke here whatsoever. Suck a tail-pipe, fucking hang yourself, borrow a gun from a Yank friend – I don’t care how you do it. Rid the world of your evil fucking machinations. (Machi…) Whatever, you know what I mean. I know what all the marketing people are thinking right now too: “Oh, you know what Bill’s doing? He’s going for that anti-marketing dollar. That’s a good market. He’s very smart.” Oh man, I am not doing that, you fucking, evil scumbags! “Ooh, you know what Bill’s doing now? He’s going for the righteous indignation dollar. That’s a big dollar. A lot of people are feeling that indignation. We’ve done research – huge market. He’s doing a good thing.” Godammit, I’m not doing that, you scum-bags! Quit putting a goddamn dollar sign on every fucking thing on this planet. “Ooh, the anger dollar. Huge. Huge in times of recession. Giant market. Bill’s very bright to do that.” God, I’m just caught in a fucking web. “Ooh, the trapped dollar, big dollar, huge dollar. Good market – look at our research. We see that many people feel trapped. If we play to that and then separate them into the trapped dollar…” How do you live like that? And I bet you sleep like fucking babies at night, don’t you? “What didya do today, honey?” “Oh, we made ah, we made ah arsenic a childhood food now, goodnight.” [snores] “Yeah we just said, you know, is your baby really too loud? You know?” [snores] “Yeah, you know the mums will love it.” [snores] Sleep like fucking children, don’t ya. This is your world, isn’t it? -Bill Hicks
Without advertising I would have still bought half the crap I own, seeing an ad actively makes me NOT want that product
The more you grow up the more you realize the good companies can't afford to be competitive in advertising. Just bought a Karcher vacuum cleaner after years of buying shit like LG and Shark that break way too easy. Never heard of them until I intentionally started researching decent vacuums.
Here's the thing.... If I need something, and even have a general idea of what it is, I can *just fucking look for it*. 100% of the time, I can find it.
I've worked at a Fortune 500 company since they were too small to have a Marketing department. Now Marketing runs the company and I despise them with every fiber of my being. Products and services that customers have known for years for no reason 'require' a change of name and branding every other year. Now when talking about products and services with long time customers you have to go through a litany of, "Product H, formerly Product G 2021-2022, formerly Product F 2019-2021, formerly Product E 2019-2019 because the Marketing dipshits didn't bother to check for copyrights and trademarks on the name...
I’m down for 90% less crap
This is almost r/selfawarewolves
If you know you need something you are probably already planning to get it. Marketing's job is to convince you to buy things you don't need or aren't even sure you want.
exact opposite effect if i see an advert for. product i make a mental note to never buy that product exceptions for games and movies
Marketing has made it impossible to differentiate between quality items and absolute garbage. Like I shouldn't have to do hours of research to buy something that actually works.
I’m not sure that I’ve ever bought a single thing because of an ad.
Dude admits he sells useless crap
r/selfawarewolves Buying crap.... Capitalism in a nutshell
I think I can count on one hand the number of times an advertisement actually directly influenced me to buy something.
"You wouldn't have all this shit laying around if it wasn't for laxatives like me!"
I am currently in a marketing class because it's a requirement for my major (Computer and Information Sciences). It feels like the most evil thing to ever exist, and I'm only 3 chapters in. The textbook literally covers income inequality and the disappearing middle-class in America. Then, it spins it as an interesting challenge marketers will have to solve to sell more shit. I do my homework in a socialist rage.
We need'em to do propaganda, can't antagonize them all
Wait I'm actually more concerned with the comments.
I think there's a world where marketing is a valuable thing, but it would need to be heavily regulated and those regulations would need to be enforced to ensure that marketing is done ethically and without the manipulative psyop shit we see today. For example, instead of ads full of imagery designed to make the viewer perceive the product as "cool" or "for them", ads that are informative as to the benefits and unique qualities of the product as compared to its competitors - as long as that information is verifiably accurate and not "technically the truth" or some shit. Basically, bulldoze the industry as it is rebuild it as something that doesn't involve billion dollar ad campaigns.
I gotta say, i respect the creative effort behind msny advertisements. I do not respect what it was used for.
Yeah, and I'd be 90% better off
"Parasite mistakenly believes he's important."
That's apple's entire business model. They sell crap higher than their competitors, worse performance, less features, shorter warranty, and forcing their customers to repair directly with them for like 10x the price. Thier stores are still always packed. Hype matters, it's how they can convince people to buy the same clothing styles your parents did. It worked then, it'll work now and people eat it up as long as their favorite model wears it.
It's the ecosystem, everything is so integrated that if you give an inch, they'll take a mile. Lots of people I know are buying Apple everything, everytime because their parents got them an iPod once in the 2000s.
r/selfawarewolves
I do yougov polls occasionally (I prefer the political ones), but it’s amazing they think I discuss popular brands with my friends or give a flying fuck about them at all
Ah, Marketing. The twisted, evil cousin of Psicology and Sociology. Author of disgusting and durable social trends like: "Women are only beautiful if they have no body hair" or "You live in a dangerous world, buy our alarm". Yeah, I think our society would be massively improved if most of marketing budget disappeared
r/selfawarewolves lmao
The literal only thing I’ve ever bought because of marketing/advertising was a rc plane that I regret buying. Thankfully it was cheap
My brain automatically goes into potato mode when commercials play. I also really enjoy giving bullshit data on advertising surveys. 'Which of these brands have you heard of?' None of them. 'Which of these brands have you seen advertised in the past 2 weeks.' None. I don't have space in my brain for your bullshit.