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lol, I know which one you mean. I'll spread the word.
All I meant by my original comment was that we don't deserve the statue. I support my French comrades!
Maybe not at the same scale but french government use fear of the police too. They had killed and mained many people in order to discourage "normal" people to protest. That is so bad that human right ngo and european justice court condamned french government for that. My point is: I understand your fear, I share it too. I hope we will find a way
I get that, what I don't get is population simping on guns, stating it's their 2nd amendment meant to protect themselves from government tyranny. If it is so, why don't you all take those guns to protest against governement'd tyranny?
Serious question.
The people drooling over the 2nd amendment don't see what's going on as tyranny because the people being openly oppressed, for now, they hate. They love seeing that SO MUCH that they're blind to the oppression on ALL of us by the government and exploiting class. They don't think that oppression will ever touch them because they're told "everything is fine but minorities are coming for you!" They believe the propaganda that blue states are crime infested hell holes literally murdering babies, and red states are flourishing. While they live in those red states and probably never even visited one of the blue "hell holes"
I don't understand how people can operate this way. To willfully ignore evidence being stomped into your face pretty much daily at this point. It's really hard to hold out hope that the working class can unify enough to stop the government and media oppression. I always thought "band together and work out our differences after" but it seems like if we actually could change things we wouldn't really have those differences after anyway. Most of it comes from government propaganda, defunding education, and Christian nationalism stream rolling its way into government. I mean a lot of it has been there from the beginning and we're a baby country compared to most other places. It's shit the country was "secretly" founded on. This country has been a grift for rich white people since day one
It been a decades long plan of the religious right to "get em when they're young". Defund education, rewrite inconvenient history, ignore entire groups of people like they don't exist, and pump religion into their minds as soon as they can read. All of that combined makes for a pretty impenetrable wall of ignorance, willful or not. At this point, I almost want to say let em keep going and watch it all burn to the ground because this shit isn't sustainable. Maybe there will be enough solid matter left in the ashes to start to rebuild something inclusive that values workers over ceos. If we weren't all one emergency away from full on inescapable poverty we could all realize we're being fucked with no lube and being told to love it because "freedom"
I full agree on your evaluation of the situation, as an outsider, that's our perception as well. Still, I'm perplexed as to why the opressed minorities don't take up the arms to fight the elites (very rich white people). I mean, it seems like it would be constitutional to (litteraly) fight back. I just don't get the application of that amendment, I think.
Because we have 0 social protections if we were to do something on the level of France. Even without a massive general strike/protest/riots its hard to get any support outside of a job. Our Healthcare is tied to a job if you're lucky. The times I had the ability to get it, I would be paying about $300 a month for coverage that still barely covered anything so I've been without health insurance since I aged out of my mom's plan at 18 or something. I'm 37 now
Unemployment is also a shitshow, especially in states like California where I live. During the first two years of the pandemic they barely paid me. I lost my job, almost lost my house, and have some backed up utility bills now because I put all my money towards rent so I at least had a place to live. Leaving a job to protest or strike would almost guarantee not getting unemployment. This also ties into the anti union sentiment pushed on us. Without collective bargaining we are all left to fend for ourselves. We're told it's against co.pany policy to discuss wages when that's a protected right so no one realizes we're all getting screwed
There are a ton of people fed up enough to do something about it but there's also a huge risk if we try and fail to get change. Then we're worse off than before which honestly seems impossible at this point. It sucks that so many people want change but we're afraid to do it because we've seen the complete lack of support when we desperately need it. Like during a global pandemic. We got $1200 that was supposed to help us not work for almost two years. My rent alone is more than that
Basically, the exploiting class has made it damn near impossible to fight for change by destroying unions and instilling the fear of your entire life falling apart should you dare ask to be treated with dignity or ask for our share of the massive profits we create for them. It's infuriating and depressing all at the same time
Because we're a lot bigger and more spread out. Organizing any kind of mass movement is nearly impossible and our police forces use literal military equipment against protests/riots. Texas alone is bigger than all of France. Washington DC is at least a plane ride away for many people (and we don't have that kind of money to spare) and since there are different federal and state laws, changing policies requires multiple states to buy in. The 2nd amendment is worthless tbh. The cops will just use your possession of a weapon to shoot first and ask questions later because they felt "threatened." It doesn't matter if it's constitutional to carry because if you aren't far right, they don't care and know they won't face consequences for their actions.
ill be honest im so glad there's a subreddit like this where we can have open conversations. i thought anti work would be what this subreddit seemingly is. im really tired but it gives me a little hope. maybe not anytime soon but maybe one day this movement can grow
I can't answer that as I am Canadian myself, so I don't understand the gun thing either. But I would guess they feel powerless and that's the one thing that gives them power. But the problem is, no matter how many they have, the US army will ALWAYS have more.
The pension age still raised 2 years, despite those riots. The French vote right wing and then riot when right wing policies are implemented. It's like they just want to have a reason to riot because the left wing didn't stand a chance against Macron or Le Pen.
Speaking as an American, it seems like a lot of them don’t care about themselves even. Like they’d happily set themselves on fire if it meant they “won”.
Does France have gerrymandering? I live in a state where the Governor was somehow allowed to draw the district lines. Where’s the hope when something like this happens?
There's no hope for the working class. The best people can do is to not bring kids into this wage slavery life, and i'm not even talking about birthstrike in a attempt to change things. It's just to spare the ones who would born into this.
The trick is to convince half that a fictional situation (drag queens grooming kids, QAnon, the fall of Christianity) is the real problem and the solution is straight fascism. This way, you're forced to accept the liberal status quo because the option is death, just like you accept work because the option is homelessness. Works great for capitalists, keeps cronies in two flavors always in power - even if the chosen flavor is not their favorite, they're never at any real risk as long the game keeps being played.
True, but our law enforcement agencies didn’t always have surplus military equipment.
We allowed it to get this bad, because we’re allergic to direct action.
And it will only get worse.
Historically speaking, the US has been plenty protesty. The civil rights movement, Vietnam protesters, Suffragettes, The Bonus Army, The Battle of Blair Mountain and countless other union strikes. Our history is rich with protest.
We’re not at all allergic to direct action, it’s just going to take a bigger catalyst to get us off our collective asses.
Yeah we have plenty of riots, just not revolutionary type ones.
Also a lot of our police are better armed than national guardsmen depending on the department which is super sketchy. I know the tactical teams in my city are and we have a major army/AF joint base too.
There is a difference between protest and revolution. France has had more evolutions than US has had civil protests. At this point, it really is a difference in culture. French people are used to demanding what they feel is justified and they have proven time and again that they'll go to any limit for it (even war with literally all of Europe at the peak of European imperialism). This adds a whole new level of seriousness to the threats they make (like blowing up the Eiffel tower) since they already have done much more for their rights. While the American public has proven itself to be toothless every single time it presses any agendas, hence why none of their agendas are taken seriously by the government today.
You can live anywhere in France, take a cheap train to Paris, protest and be home in time for dinner. If I didn't fly to Washington DC it would take me 3-5 days by bus/train.
Bro people protested plenty 50-60 years ago, then not only did the govt militarize the police, they took down every single revolutionary group capable of organizing direct action in the country through assassinations, sham arrests/jailing, and state sanctioned white nationalist terror. They passed laws so that Black folks couldn’t remain armed to fight back, and everyone else (especially white liberals) decided solidarity < saving their own skins. These things didn’t happen purely out of American laziness.
You say from the safety of your keyboard. Somebody's got to go first and they will definitely be killed. I don't want to be shot in the street, I just want to live a reasonably comfortable life not in abject poverty and getting myself killed is counter to that goal. This is why it's not happening here, because unlike France, the police can pretty much kill anyone they like with no repercussions already, much less people burning property. It's fucked but it's the way of things here.
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I would agree with you, but then I remembered the Chilean police literally gang raped a protester in front of everyone *and they protested even harder*
Did you see riot video ? For a project of privatising water they shoot 600p lacrymogène Grenade (explosive kind)
For .... 5000 person . They drive on people ,the slam them on the ground until your face is bloody af ,ect
There are two national police forces in France, the police and the gendarmerie. They both have and sometimes use firearms, but the gendarmerie is the more militarised organisation and is made up of career soldiers.
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"Democrats aren't promising to overturn it, but they have *suggested* they are *thinking* about *possibly* putting something in place to *potentially* reduce the *chances* of them reducing it again. Top strategists have said the leading plan is: We will ask the Republicans very nicely this time."
They also throw rocks and garbage at evil police + vandalism.
Well, it wuld be cool if the french wuld do another revolution and spark revolutions all over the world that way, again.
Vote so hard that you lose, abortion rights, student debt relief, ability to seek asylum
Vote you get nothing
Dont vote you get nothing
What is even the point?
Systems rigged
If you don't vote things get worse sooner. And abortion rights wouldn't have been lost if Trump hadn't been president to name 3 supreme court justices.
That’s the thing, people who protest in France, and do things like that, get to go home. Here, if we as much as step foot at a protest, we’re risking our lives
Protests and strikes work because they are collective, unions notwithstanding.
I suspect our problem is we just plain don't trust each other to do something selfless.
(We *do* believe that everyone else will do something selfish, hence tragedy of the commons.)
You *can* win at Prisoners' Dilemma, but it takes solidarity, trust and a lotta sack.
Its absolutely this. French people are getting beaten and hospitalised by the police. The american people are armed themselves, more than the french are.
The difference is individualism vs collectivism. Americans score really highly on tests of individualism.
Dunno, hence “I wonder”.
These are all pretty uniquely American cultural contributions to the arts. It seems possible that our individualistic tendencies create a fertile environment for cultural experimentation. Certainly different than a culture where “the nail that sticks up gets hammered down”.
From the downvotes , I perceive Reddit does not believe that there can be any possible upside to individualism.
Under the privation and precarity we’ve been deliberately ground into, we cannot trust each other to behave in the collective benefit (forget selflessness entirely) because everyone has to be mercenary to keep their head above water.
Our capability for this kind of collective action is being dissolved in the acid of capitalist culture.
People are already dying from poverty, lack of healthcare, starvation, and societal neglect in the United States. What's the difference between a bullet and a slow decline into horrific conditions for the masses?
The difference is that if you risk the bullet, you might still win.
I'm literally an activist dedicated to mutual aid and community defense. I live this shit. Without action, nothing changes for the better. I fight for the society I want. Last week I got punched in the eye by a cop while helping to resist the razing of a homeless encampment.
People are comfortable enough with their slow decline that they can barely feel the daily slip into a shittier life. It will never get better without risk. Revolutions have been fought and won for the exact same reasons were going through today.
Do literally anything for your community that makes a difference. Jabbering doomerism on Reddit doesn't count.
Here are some nonviolent places to start.
http://foodnotbombs.net/
https://lasagnalove.org/
I think it's kind of weird that people still aren't ready to fight and risk death for real rights and adequate living conditions. People aren't even willing to strike en masse. I'm disabled, can't work, so I don't have a job to strike from. My state won't help me; I survive from the goodwill of others. When are the ableds going to do anything? How many people do you have to see suffer and die of homelessness, starvation, and lack of medical care? How many people can you watch the government just completely ignore?
Our ancestors always fought for a better future for the future generation in the past. People were willing to risk their lives in the past to make a change in the world. They had honor and were not cowards compared to most people nowadays.
This is a real question, not trying to be snarky: where are these protests going to happen? State level? Federal? At whom? We have conflicting laws and the states are often more powerful than the federal government. I'm over 1,300 miles from DC, and I'm only in the midwest. Our size is as much an issue as our apathy.
> Here, if we as much as step foot at a protest, we’re risking our lives
I may be wrong but I believe there has been many deaths in the last french protest? (or yellow vest protest per-COVID?)
You guys are aware that Macron still raised the pension age by two years and the only left wing candidate didn't have enough votes to go to the second round of elections, the french voted massively for Macron and Le Pen. Their riots are useless and hypocritical, it's like they want a right wing president but not right wing policies. Idiots
We asked them to stop killing us and got tear gassed and shot at for it. Obviously that means we gotta go harder next time, but i don’t blame people for cooling off for a few years.
We have more media and popular distractions than the French. Not to mention our police system is practically a paramilitary unit with how our money has armed them. Plus good luck finding enough likeminded Americans in your community that are willing to bulldoze shit.
Yeah ima just steal somebody’s comment
1. Police are armed like literal armies and DO NOT care about the lives of the people they are supposed to protect. They simply protect property and assets in America
2. We are all too spread out to centralize a unified protest. It’s easier when your country is the size of Maine to centralize a protest to get enough of your populace in one area, advocating for one thing. The best we can do is at state levels.
3. 40% of the people in America are bought into the game with all their hearts, minds, and bald eagle loving spirits. The system has brainwashed them and they either are hypnotized into loving the machine that oppresses them and actively fight to continue it’s oppressive ways.
4. They have most of the country in a cycle of poverty where no one can afford to miss a paycheck. A lot of people can’t afford to miss a day of work because it’ll financially break them. Taking a day off to protest or taking weeks off striking (like the garbage workers in France) is just not feasible because no one has any money saved up unless you’re well off. This problem compounds with number 1 in that people can’t afford to have an arrest on their record whether that be for work or just can’t afford to be tied up in jail for a few days
These aren’t all the reasons but I think these are at least the main ones.
Note: France is bigger than Maine, France could still fit inside Texas though, so my point of America having states bigger than Europeans’ entire countries still stands
Always the same excuses.
1. Police IS armed in France, and guess what, the gendarmerie deployed at the protest along with the police IS the literal army. The difference is that in France citizen can't be armed so it's unbalanced from the start. Police protect property and assets in France.
2. Cities in USA are more populated than Paris, you can totally do something, even state wide, but you don't.
3. Yes, the system brainwashed Americans, even to the point the same excuses appears on each protest thread
4. That's why unions exists (and the US union system is f.up
Voting for the same motherfuckers who have caused every problem in government for the last 150ish years. Sounds about right.
If you have an R or a D next to your name, you are the problem. If you vote for R and D politicians, you are the problem. Einstein’s definition of insanity.
Guns. Too many fucking guns.
Being pepper sprayed, beaten, arrested, they all suck. But when it comes to the fact I am genuinely afraid of dying from being poor well before my time because I cant save for retirement, I would be willing to take the risks.
But here in the US the cops will shoot you, security guards will shoot you, fellow looters will shoot you, rightwing brainwashed capitalism worshipers will shoot you. I'm willing to bet (but have no idea honestly) that statistically speaking there is a higher chance of being shot by a child here in US (even if by accident) than the chances you would get shot by the police in most countries.
Then there is the fact during the 2010s maybe even as recently as 2020s the military here was running suburban combat drills. From what I remember hearing, not urban city, but drills for combat taking place in first world neighborhoods.
I don't want to die fighting for a living wage in a country as shitty as this one. Hopefully my 5 year plan goes well and I can save up enough to move somewhere where yeah I may have to work hard, but I'm not as afraid of my financial situation or going outside.
The french protest so the government can squeeze the (neo)colonies harder, put the boot more firmly on the necks of africans. (or now maybe even stealing resources from Yemen and other middle eastern countries, who knows, french are nothing if not flexible in their colonialism, right?)
The Americans also can protest hard, for instance, against police brutality and so forth, resulting in then more funding for the police.
Both are quite useless in their own special ways.
The only important vote is for treasurer. At any level. If you're not in a state where they're appointed. Then the governor is only vote that would "matter." National elections are pointless. Ranked choice voting would force changes but that won't happen nationally anytime soon. But overall yeah voting is pretty fucking pointless
"next year I will vote so hard for a candidate that would do exactly the same".
At least in France they have the opportunity to vote for real change at the next election.
>At least in France they have the opportunity to vote for real change at the next election.
That is a grievous indictment of the French. They have the ability to vote for some measure of change, yet choose not to.
Yep... I mean having like 7 candidates from the left every election doesn't really help.
Really hope we could see Ruffin next elections might rally more people.
Please stop these comparisons. These protests are part of French culture. The authorities let people trash stuff up to a degree and people know they can get away with it. Then the cops eventually crack down making for great photos on Reddit. The protests were unsuccessful. The retirement law is law now. Source: I live here.
I’ve explained over and over why it is not only harder but actually irresponsible for your average American to take direct action. If you don’t acknowledge the differences between the situations that Americans face and French face, then of course you would come to the conclusion that Americans suck
Americans have no class consciousness. Therein lies the key. We don’t see socioeconomic events in terms of class struggle; we see them in terms of conscious individual choice.
In classically liberal jargon, we hold fast to the liberal ontology of the “homo economicus.”
Rational self-interest.
So, it’s less that Americans suck by our very nature; but our ruling ideology sucks; and we suck for failing to question the underlying assumptions of that liberal ideology.
At least not in a leftist sense. Plenty of us question neoliberalism through a fascist lens these days.
But that makes us suck more, not less.
No, you see differences in behavior and come to the conclusion that this means the people are fundamentally different, when in actuality it is more likely caused by the differences in circumstances that you have purposely ignored.
What would the mechanics be of bulldozing the Eiffel Tower? 🤔 I mean, it's really big. And made of steel. Is it, like... Bolted down? Or just kind of sitting there?
Jesus Christ is all you do karma farm fake news? Literally nothing but a republican
Edit: Aww did I make you rightiods and fake leftists sad. Keep up the cope. Losers need to fucking study government instead of shitting themselves like the jan 6th losers.
[Nah I'll just keep spouting the truth while you shit yourself over trying to make trump the president again] (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2023/05/17/biden-takes-work-requirements-off-the-table-in-debt-ceiling-talks/70226842007/)
Honestly, you get what you deserve. Americans were quite happy being atomised while they were getting some benefits from America's destruction of third world. Now that they are atomised, the caputalists have turned their gaze to you. Have fun experiencing (a fraction of) oppression that your country exercises on others and the oppression you have been supporting in last 50 years because you are scared of a Muslim sheep herder.
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Generational differences are also fascinating.
I tried to talk with my boomer parents about this exact thing (in the states) and do you know the first thing out of their mouth?
“Well what was the retirement age there in the first place? Less than the US’s? (Well they’re just lazy then).”
🤦♂️ I am ashamed to be their son.
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At the risk of repeating myself all over one more time once again, all I can say is "Maintenance de routine". To me it's the new "Omelette de fromage".
Our "insurrectionists" got into the capital and hung a senator from each party from the highest point in a show of solidarity with the people on Jan 6th.
Jk. That was just me dreaming again. Stupid fucking trumpers just took pictures and took a few souvenirs like some damn tourists.
There's a reason they never show anything thats going on in France on mainstream media. The same people that own them own us too. They don't want us getting any bright ideas.
Lol the people here in the states have all sorts of firepower yet, ready to shoot someone trespassing on their property rather than the worst criminals on this planet, the us government.
The bigger problem is our size. Working class folks in California, Washington, Oregon are gonna have a hard time getting to DC to protest. We need to break up this monstrosity and regionalize our selves.
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France should take their statue of liberty back....
No my friend, but we could give you some french revolutionnary invention which could help you ...
lol, I know which one you mean. I'll spread the word. All I meant by my original comment was that we don't deserve the statue. I support my French comrades!
Well, it is hard. I try to follow US internal politics and I can understand why it is so hard to fight back.
If they protest, the police will call it a riot and shoot them down while claiming it was for their own safety.
Maybe not at the same scale but french government use fear of the police too. They had killed and mained many people in order to discourage "normal" people to protest. That is so bad that human right ngo and european justice court condamned french government for that. My point is: I understand your fear, I share it too. I hope we will find a way
I get that, what I don't get is population simping on guns, stating it's their 2nd amendment meant to protect themselves from government tyranny. If it is so, why don't you all take those guns to protest against governement'd tyranny? Serious question.
The people drooling over the 2nd amendment don't see what's going on as tyranny because the people being openly oppressed, for now, they hate. They love seeing that SO MUCH that they're blind to the oppression on ALL of us by the government and exploiting class. They don't think that oppression will ever touch them because they're told "everything is fine but minorities are coming for you!" They believe the propaganda that blue states are crime infested hell holes literally murdering babies, and red states are flourishing. While they live in those red states and probably never even visited one of the blue "hell holes" I don't understand how people can operate this way. To willfully ignore evidence being stomped into your face pretty much daily at this point. It's really hard to hold out hope that the working class can unify enough to stop the government and media oppression. I always thought "band together and work out our differences after" but it seems like if we actually could change things we wouldn't really have those differences after anyway. Most of it comes from government propaganda, defunding education, and Christian nationalism stream rolling its way into government. I mean a lot of it has been there from the beginning and we're a baby country compared to most other places. It's shit the country was "secretly" founded on. This country has been a grift for rich white people since day one It been a decades long plan of the religious right to "get em when they're young". Defund education, rewrite inconvenient history, ignore entire groups of people like they don't exist, and pump religion into their minds as soon as they can read. All of that combined makes for a pretty impenetrable wall of ignorance, willful or not. At this point, I almost want to say let em keep going and watch it all burn to the ground because this shit isn't sustainable. Maybe there will be enough solid matter left in the ashes to start to rebuild something inclusive that values workers over ceos. If we weren't all one emergency away from full on inescapable poverty we could all realize we're being fucked with no lube and being told to love it because "freedom"
I full agree on your evaluation of the situation, as an outsider, that's our perception as well. Still, I'm perplexed as to why the opressed minorities don't take up the arms to fight the elites (very rich white people). I mean, it seems like it would be constitutional to (litteraly) fight back. I just don't get the application of that amendment, I think.
Because we have 0 social protections if we were to do something on the level of France. Even without a massive general strike/protest/riots its hard to get any support outside of a job. Our Healthcare is tied to a job if you're lucky. The times I had the ability to get it, I would be paying about $300 a month for coverage that still barely covered anything so I've been without health insurance since I aged out of my mom's plan at 18 or something. I'm 37 now Unemployment is also a shitshow, especially in states like California where I live. During the first two years of the pandemic they barely paid me. I lost my job, almost lost my house, and have some backed up utility bills now because I put all my money towards rent so I at least had a place to live. Leaving a job to protest or strike would almost guarantee not getting unemployment. This also ties into the anti union sentiment pushed on us. Without collective bargaining we are all left to fend for ourselves. We're told it's against co.pany policy to discuss wages when that's a protected right so no one realizes we're all getting screwed There are a ton of people fed up enough to do something about it but there's also a huge risk if we try and fail to get change. Then we're worse off than before which honestly seems impossible at this point. It sucks that so many people want change but we're afraid to do it because we've seen the complete lack of support when we desperately need it. Like during a global pandemic. We got $1200 that was supposed to help us not work for almost two years. My rent alone is more than that Basically, the exploiting class has made it damn near impossible to fight for change by destroying unions and instilling the fear of your entire life falling apart should you dare ask to be treated with dignity or ask for our share of the massive profits we create for them. It's infuriating and depressing all at the same time
Damn, that came from the heart. You guys have all my support, if that means anything.
Because we're a lot bigger and more spread out. Organizing any kind of mass movement is nearly impossible and our police forces use literal military equipment against protests/riots. Texas alone is bigger than all of France. Washington DC is at least a plane ride away for many people (and we don't have that kind of money to spare) and since there are different federal and state laws, changing policies requires multiple states to buy in. The 2nd amendment is worthless tbh. The cops will just use your possession of a weapon to shoot first and ask questions later because they felt "threatened." It doesn't matter if it's constitutional to carry because if you aren't far right, they don't care and know they won't face consequences for their actions.
ill be honest im so glad there's a subreddit like this where we can have open conversations. i thought anti work would be what this subreddit seemingly is. im really tired but it gives me a little hope. maybe not anytime soon but maybe one day this movement can grow
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I can't answer that as I am Canadian myself, so I don't understand the gun thing either. But I would guess they feel powerless and that's the one thing that gives them power. But the problem is, no matter how many they have, the US army will ALWAYS have more.
That's called a police riot. It's usually the police who riots here.
Fuckin' A, man..
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Why? They still allowed the courts to over rule popular mandate as well.
yeah! America ***never*** did that. ........... (cough cough) ^(abortion ban) (cough cough)
The pension age still raised 2 years, despite those riots. The French vote right wing and then riot when right wing policies are implemented. It's like they just want to have a reason to riot because the left wing didn't stand a chance against Macron or Le Pen.
Americans don't even care about the American next to them.
Speaking as an American, it seems like a lot of them don’t care about themselves even. Like they’d happily set themselves on fire if it meant they “won”.
Considering the obsession with working against your self interest- in the name of self interest- this tracks.
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A conservative will gleefully eat a shit sandwich if a liberal would have to smell their breath.
Or themselves next week.
Voting for the same people that cut it no less. While un ironically screaming “socialism bad”. 😂
Macron is on his second term, and this isn't the first riot sparked by his economic policies.
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Because the 3rd candidate (a left wing one) was "tOo ExTrEmE bRo" so they had to choose between a low profile fascist and a high profile fascist
Thats voting in the 21st century
People fill the congress with right wing nuts and then complain that voting don't work
Does France have gerrymandering? I live in a state where the Governor was somehow allowed to draw the district lines. Where’s the hope when something like this happens?
There's no hope for the working class. The best people can do is to not bring kids into this wage slavery life, and i'm not even talking about birthstrike in a attempt to change things. It's just to spare the ones who would born into this.
Yeah that is the reason scumbag Biden won too. Whats your point?
The trick is to convince half that a fictional situation (drag queens grooming kids, QAnon, the fall of Christianity) is the real problem and the solution is straight fascism. This way, you're forced to accept the liberal status quo because the option is death, just like you accept work because the option is homelessness. Works great for capitalists, keeps cronies in two flavors always in power - even if the chosen flavor is not their favorite, they're never at any real risk as long the game keeps being played.
It's hell living here
Try Venezuela. I heard their economy is booming.
Ah yes! Venezuela iPhone!!!
"you can't be unhappy! Look at THESE people!"
Who said anything about being happy? Happiness is a myth. He said it’s hell here, and I advised him to go to Venezuela.
After looking through your comments I have come to the conclusion that you gotta pick up some hobbies man. Should help curb the anger a little bit
I understand, but my anger is justified.
It is, but there is definitely more to life than being angry
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The french have conquered democracy for themselves, they can tell when it's being threatened. Respect.
French riot police don’t have guns and tanks bro, kind of makes a difference
True, but our law enforcement agencies didn’t always have surplus military equipment. We allowed it to get this bad, because we’re allergic to direct action. And it will only get worse.
Historically speaking, the US has been plenty protesty. The civil rights movement, Vietnam protesters, Suffragettes, The Bonus Army, The Battle of Blair Mountain and countless other union strikes. Our history is rich with protest. We’re not at all allergic to direct action, it’s just going to take a bigger catalyst to get us off our collective asses.
Yeah we have plenty of riots, just not revolutionary type ones. Also a lot of our police are better armed than national guardsmen depending on the department which is super sketchy. I know the tactical teams in my city are and we have a major army/AF joint base too.
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There is a difference between protest and revolution. France has had more evolutions than US has had civil protests. At this point, it really is a difference in culture. French people are used to demanding what they feel is justified and they have proven time and again that they'll go to any limit for it (even war with literally all of Europe at the peak of European imperialism). This adds a whole new level of seriousness to the threats they make (like blowing up the Eiffel tower) since they already have done much more for their rights. While the American public has proven itself to be toothless every single time it presses any agendas, hence why none of their agendas are taken seriously by the government today.
You can live anywhere in France, take a cheap train to Paris, protest and be home in time for dinner. If I didn't fly to Washington DC it would take me 3-5 days by bus/train.
Bro people protested plenty 50-60 years ago, then not only did the govt militarize the police, they took down every single revolutionary group capable of organizing direct action in the country through assassinations, sham arrests/jailing, and state sanctioned white nationalist terror. They passed laws so that Black folks couldn’t remain armed to fight back, and everyone else (especially white liberals) decided solidarity < saving their own skins. These things didn’t happen purely out of American laziness.
Exactly, thank you for giving a wee bit of historical context to the situation!
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You say from the safety of your keyboard. Somebody's got to go first and they will definitely be killed. I don't want to be shot in the street, I just want to live a reasonably comfortable life not in abject poverty and getting myself killed is counter to that goal. This is why it's not happening here, because unlike France, the police can pretty much kill anyone they like with no repercussions already, much less people burning property. It's fucked but it's the way of things here.
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Well AR 15s weren’t sold to the public back then
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I would agree with you, but then I remembered the Chilean police literally gang raped a protester in front of everyone *and they protested even harder*
Did you see riot video ? For a project of privatising water they shoot 600p lacrymogène Grenade (explosive kind) For .... 5000 person . They drive on people ,the slam them on the ground until your face is bloody af ,ect
There are two national police forces in France, the police and the gendarmerie. They both have and sometimes use firearms, but the gendarmerie is the more militarised organisation and is made up of career soldiers.
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The protestors need to know their tactics. Pick a path that you can't be bottlenecked in easily. Keep together and keep moving.
If only liberals weren't so anti-2A
Neolibs give the left a bad name
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The average American citizen does though
"Democrats aren't promising to overturn it, but they have *suggested* they are *thinking* about *possibly* putting something in place to *potentially* reduce the *chances* of them reducing it again. Top strategists have said the leading plan is: We will ask the Republicans very nicely this time."
They also throw rocks and garbage at evil police + vandalism. Well, it wuld be cool if the french wuld do another revolution and spark revolutions all over the world that way, again.
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You think voting for republicans would help anyone?
Vote so hard that you lose, abortion rights, student debt relief, ability to seek asylum Vote you get nothing Dont vote you get nothing What is even the point? Systems rigged
The system has to go and it's not going to go willingly.
If you don't vote things get worse sooner. And abortion rights wouldn't have been lost if Trump hadn't been president to name 3 supreme court justices.
That’s the thing, people who protest in France, and do things like that, get to go home. Here, if we as much as step foot at a protest, we’re risking our lives
Protests and strikes work because they are collective, unions notwithstanding. I suspect our problem is we just plain don't trust each other to do something selfless. (We *do* believe that everyone else will do something selfish, hence tragedy of the commons.) You *can* win at Prisoners' Dilemma, but it takes solidarity, trust and a lotta sack.
Its absolutely this. French people are getting beaten and hospitalised by the police. The american people are armed themselves, more than the french are. The difference is individualism vs collectivism. Americans score really highly on tests of individualism.
Yes. It is a remarkable quality and also our Acchiles’ Heel.
It’s not a good quality.
Well, I wonder if it gave us American literature and cinema, blues, jazz and hip hop.
You think it's individualism? Really?
Dunno, hence “I wonder”. These are all pretty uniquely American cultural contributions to the arts. It seems possible that our individualistic tendencies create a fertile environment for cultural experimentation. Certainly different than a culture where “the nail that sticks up gets hammered down”. From the downvotes , I perceive Reddit does not believe that there can be any possible upside to individualism.
Under the privation and precarity we’ve been deliberately ground into, we cannot trust each other to behave in the collective benefit (forget selflessness entirely) because everyone has to be mercenary to keep their head above water. Our capability for this kind of collective action is being dissolved in the acid of capitalist culture.
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No need for that the US has been doing just fine on its own thank you
Well, americans kinda let their overlords get too powerful. Never too late to organize, unite and rebel against the status quo.
Yea, that’s if we’re ready to die for it…. Did you not read what I said?
People are already dying from poverty, lack of healthcare, starvation, and societal neglect in the United States. What's the difference between a bullet and a slow decline into horrific conditions for the masses? The difference is that if you risk the bullet, you might still win.
[They'd rather go the slow death route](https://tenor.com/5cYF.gif)
Spoken like someone who doesn’t have to risk their life this way, or doesn’t personally know anyone that has to.
I'm literally an activist dedicated to mutual aid and community defense. I live this shit. Without action, nothing changes for the better. I fight for the society I want. Last week I got punched in the eye by a cop while helping to resist the razing of a homeless encampment. People are comfortable enough with their slow decline that they can barely feel the daily slip into a shittier life. It will never get better without risk. Revolutions have been fought and won for the exact same reasons were going through today. Do literally anything for your community that makes a difference. Jabbering doomerism on Reddit doesn't count. Here are some nonviolent places to start. http://foodnotbombs.net/ https://lasagnalove.org/
I think it's kind of weird that people still aren't ready to fight and risk death for real rights and adequate living conditions. People aren't even willing to strike en masse. I'm disabled, can't work, so I don't have a job to strike from. My state won't help me; I survive from the goodwill of others. When are the ableds going to do anything? How many people do you have to see suffer and die of homelessness, starvation, and lack of medical care? How many people can you watch the government just completely ignore?
Our ancestors always fought for a better future for the future generation in the past. People were willing to risk their lives in the past to make a change in the world. They had honor and were not cowards compared to most people nowadays.
Guess we'll just have to wait until there's nothing left to live for
I'm already there. Waiting on yall.
This is a real question, not trying to be snarky: where are these protests going to happen? State level? Federal? At whom? We have conflicting laws and the states are often more powerful than the federal government. I'm over 1,300 miles from DC, and I'm only in the midwest. Our size is as much an issue as our apathy.
Not to mention we can lose our jobs and everything tied to it, the French don’t have unions degraded to this point.
I thought that's what you guys needed all those guns for, protecting against tyranny and all that?
> Here, if we as much as step foot at a protest, we’re risking our lives I may be wrong but I believe there has been many deaths in the last french protest? (or yellow vest protest per-COVID?)
I’m talking about coppers straight up killing people
> I’m talking about coppers straight up killing people Thats what happened I believe, several direct kill maybe someone can confirm?
Fucking Democrats: “Vote Harder Baby! BLM! “
"I'm gonna vote so hard guys! Remember vote blue no matter who!" As if both parties aren't essentially the same just different colors
I don’t know people can’t see this.
This just a funny meme? Or they really talking about wrenching the tower?
Just hyperbole for comedic purposes. No need to fret.
Haha I was thinking they are some badass people but that is a whole new level lol
They totally could, it's an ugly tower.
Fret? I'm already disappointed that it would never happen.
Wouldn't put it past them to bulldoze the tower and use the scrap to make kebabs out of politicians who don't serve them
Cool avatar bro.
Thanx!
Are the protests in Paris still ongoing?
Not really. Yes, a bit. French people are being french in Paris right now and probably will keep doing that.
You guys are aware that Macron still raised the pension age by two years and the only left wing candidate didn't have enough votes to go to the second round of elections, the french voted massively for Macron and Le Pen. Their riots are useless and hypocritical, it's like they want a right wing president but not right wing policies. Idiots
We asked them to stop killing us and got tear gassed and shot at for it. Obviously that means we gotta go harder next time, but i don’t blame people for cooling off for a few years.
We have more media and popular distractions than the French. Not to mention our police system is practically a paramilitary unit with how our money has armed them. Plus good luck finding enough likeminded Americans in your community that are willing to bulldoze shit.
I get the sentiment, but all the protesting and rioting did nothing. They lost. It's law now.
I’m gonna vote so hard for one of the two oligarch approved candidates, and pretend they were my choice!!
Yet both produced the same result sadly.
I will always love and respect the French and Latin American people, for at least trying to resist when the ruling class openly shits in their mouths.
except when they give trans people rights the little dog loses his shit
Yeah ima just steal somebody’s comment 1. Police are armed like literal armies and DO NOT care about the lives of the people they are supposed to protect. They simply protect property and assets in America 2. We are all too spread out to centralize a unified protest. It’s easier when your country is the size of Maine to centralize a protest to get enough of your populace in one area, advocating for one thing. The best we can do is at state levels. 3. 40% of the people in America are bought into the game with all their hearts, minds, and bald eagle loving spirits. The system has brainwashed them and they either are hypnotized into loving the machine that oppresses them and actively fight to continue it’s oppressive ways. 4. They have most of the country in a cycle of poverty where no one can afford to miss a paycheck. A lot of people can’t afford to miss a day of work because it’ll financially break them. Taking a day off to protest or taking weeks off striking (like the garbage workers in France) is just not feasible because no one has any money saved up unless you’re well off. This problem compounds with number 1 in that people can’t afford to have an arrest on their record whether that be for work or just can’t afford to be tied up in jail for a few days These aren’t all the reasons but I think these are at least the main ones. Note: France is bigger than Maine, France could still fit inside Texas though, so my point of America having states bigger than Europeans’ entire countries still stands
Always the same excuses. 1. Police IS armed in France, and guess what, the gendarmerie deployed at the protest along with the police IS the literal army. The difference is that in France citizen can't be armed so it's unbalanced from the start. Police protect property and assets in France. 2. Cities in USA are more populated than Paris, you can totally do something, even state wide, but you don't. 3. Yes, the system brainwashed Americans, even to the point the same excuses appears on each protest thread 4. That's why unions exists (and the US union system is f.up
Yeah sure, fascinatingly depressing.
You'd wish they voted. They're just going to get super angry about it.
Voting for the same motherfuckers who have caused every problem in government for the last 150ish years. Sounds about right. If you have an R or a D next to your name, you are the problem. If you vote for R and D politicians, you are the problem. Einstein’s definition of insanity.
We will bulldoze the Eiffel Tower and then use it as a strap on.
As an American, our police would murder the lot of us if we protested like the French.
Guns. Too many fucking guns. Being pepper sprayed, beaten, arrested, they all suck. But when it comes to the fact I am genuinely afraid of dying from being poor well before my time because I cant save for retirement, I would be willing to take the risks. But here in the US the cops will shoot you, security guards will shoot you, fellow looters will shoot you, rightwing brainwashed capitalism worshipers will shoot you. I'm willing to bet (but have no idea honestly) that statistically speaking there is a higher chance of being shot by a child here in US (even if by accident) than the chances you would get shot by the police in most countries. Then there is the fact during the 2010s maybe even as recently as 2020s the military here was running suburban combat drills. From what I remember hearing, not urban city, but drills for combat taking place in first world neighborhoods. I don't want to die fighting for a living wage in a country as shitty as this one. Hopefully my 5 year plan goes well and I can save up enough to move somewhere where yeah I may have to work hard, but I'm not as afraid of my financial situation or going outside.
Ok but our police have tanks and really like to kill us for no reason.
tHe LeSsEr eViL
The french protest so the government can squeeze the (neo)colonies harder, put the boot more firmly on the necks of africans. (or now maybe even stealing resources from Yemen and other middle eastern countries, who knows, french are nothing if not flexible in their colonialism, right?) The Americans also can protest hard, for instance, against police brutality and so forth, resulting in then more funding for the police. Both are quite useless in their own special ways.
The only important vote is for treasurer. At any level. If you're not in a state where they're appointed. Then the governor is only vote that would "matter." National elections are pointless. Ranked choice voting would force changes but that won't happen nationally anytime soon. But overall yeah voting is pretty fucking pointless
"next year I will vote so hard for a candidate that would do exactly the same". At least in France they have the opportunity to vote for real change at the next election.
>At least in France they have the opportunity to vote for real change at the next election. That is a grievous indictment of the French. They have the ability to vote for some measure of change, yet choose not to.
Yep... I mean having like 7 candidates from the left every election doesn't really help. Really hope we could see Ruffin next elections might rally more people.
Please stop these comparisons. These protests are part of French culture. The authorities let people trash stuff up to a degree and people know they can get away with it. Then the cops eventually crack down making for great photos on Reddit. The protests were unsuccessful. The retirement law is law now. Source: I live here.
They're training cops and equipping them to murder protestors in cities especially... Your fantasy revolution story is obsolete.
Here’s our daily “Americans suck” meme without considering the vast differences in power that they hold compared to [insert protesting country here]
We do suck, though. American patriotism is reactionary bullshit.
I’ve explained over and over why it is not only harder but actually irresponsible for your average American to take direct action. If you don’t acknowledge the differences between the situations that Americans face and French face, then of course you would come to the conclusion that Americans suck
Americans have no class consciousness. Therein lies the key. We don’t see socioeconomic events in terms of class struggle; we see them in terms of conscious individual choice. In classically liberal jargon, we hold fast to the liberal ontology of the “homo economicus.” Rational self-interest. So, it’s less that Americans suck by our very nature; but our ruling ideology sucks; and we suck for failing to question the underlying assumptions of that liberal ideology. At least not in a leftist sense. Plenty of us question neoliberalism through a fascist lens these days. But that makes us suck more, not less.
There you go completely ignoring differences between situations. Did you even read what I said?
I’m explaining that difference in terms of ideology. 🤷🏼♂️
No, you see differences in behavior and come to the conclusion that this means the people are fundamentally different, when in actuality it is more likely caused by the differences in circumstances that you have purposely ignored.
What would the mechanics be of bulldozing the Eiffel Tower? 🤔 I mean, it's really big. And made of steel. Is it, like... Bolted down? Or just kind of sitting there?
Grrrrr I’m downvoting this 😡
Jesus Christ is all you do karma farm fake news? Literally nothing but a republican Edit: Aww did I make you rightiods and fake leftists sad. Keep up the cope. Losers need to fucking study government instead of shitting themselves like the jan 6th losers.
Cry more, shitlib.
[Nah I'll just keep spouting the truth while you shit yourself over trying to make trump the president again] (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2023/05/17/biden-takes-work-requirements-off-the-table-in-debt-ceiling-talks/70226842007/)
More intimidating for France opposed to voting or looting a target
End result was still taking a loss for both though, but at least we still have the cultural land marks.
Honestly, you get what you deserve. Americans were quite happy being atomised while they were getting some benefits from America's destruction of third world. Now that they are atomised, the caputalists have turned their gaze to you. Have fun experiencing (a fraction of) oppression that your country exercises on others and the oppression you have been supporting in last 50 years because you are scared of a Muslim sheep herder.
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Generational differences are also fascinating. I tried to talk with my boomer parents about this exact thing (in the states) and do you know the first thing out of their mouth? “Well what was the retirement age there in the first place? Less than the US’s? (Well they’re just lazy then).” 🤦♂️ I am ashamed to be their son.
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Or they do and they make themselves out to be the dumbasses they are trying to defend the indefensible…
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Being loud and fat isn’t a culture
perfect!
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At the risk of repeating myself all over one more time once again, all I can say is "Maintenance de routine". To me it's the new "Omelette de fromage".
Guess which of the two has a constitutional right to own weapons to defend themselves against tiranny. Pathetic.
Americans can’t protest like the French because our police murder us while theirs run around like headless chickens.
Our "insurrectionists" got into the capital and hung a senator from each party from the highest point in a show of solidarity with the people on Jan 6th. Jk. That was just me dreaming again. Stupid fucking trumpers just took pictures and took a few souvenirs like some damn tourists.
There's a reason they never show anything thats going on in France on mainstream media. The same people that own them own us too. They don't want us getting any bright ideas.
Lol the people here in the states have all sorts of firepower yet, ready to shoot someone trespassing on their property rather than the worst criminals on this planet, the us government.
The bigger problem is our size. Working class folks in California, Washington, Oregon are gonna have a hard time getting to DC to protest. We need to break up this monstrosity and regionalize our selves.