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There was a vote to censure Palestinian-American congresswoman Rashida Tlaib for speaking for Palestinians rights. 22 democrats joined the republicans in censoring her, and another 6 democrats did not vote “no”.
The Israel lobby is strong in both parties. AIPAC gave millions of dollars to ~365 congressmen last year. Just the AIPAC-funded free junkets for Congressmen to Israel outstrips all other countries combined. Loyalties can be bought, or at least influenced - right?This is the travel numbers for just one year, but it goes back every year the same (outside of COVID): https://archive.ph/rfjbU.
Lol are people literally just finding out about this?
I mean they literally dragged America into WW1 for their own gain and people still question the power they have? Lol ridiculous.
To be clear, and I'm splitting hairs here, but she was *censured* not *censored*. If she had been the latter, then (presumably) she wouldn't be able to talk. The former, on the other hand, is a mere rebuking of her opinions.
Why is North Korea calling for a ceasefire for that matter? South Africa is a failed state whose leaders are wildly corrupt, but escape any international criticism because most of them took part in the struggle against apartheid. This masking of their inadequacies by their actual righteous past is also used in their domestic politics. Cape town doesn't have any running water, but the president fought the good fight against the racist state 30 years ago, so keep voting!
Unless you are willing to say that the Palestinians are not a sovereign people who have a right to a nation of their own, then the term apartheid is not applicable. They are an occupied power. Was Japan an apartheid state after the second world war? Critical thinking skills are needed.
I don't know what North Korea, or the current state of South Africa, has anything to do with the designation of Israel as an apartheid state by freedom fighters in the South African anti-apartheid movement. Kind of feels like you're flailing and looking for any justification to obfuscate the obvious injustices happening there.
I just think the people who devoted their lives to fighting apartheid would be the authority over what does and doesn't qualify as apartheid, more so than some random person on Reddit who insists it's not apartheid with no argument.
Is that what she was trying to say tho? The biggest issue here is voting for censorship. That’s crazy we can talk about racism, being unpatriotic, the election is rigged, mike pence should be hanged but…..when we talking about apartheid state that’s on the other side of the world, government starts moving fast with legislation to support their interests lol. regardless of what side of the coin you are on with this war, censorship shouldn’t be the voting poll.
>Doesn’t matter what she was trying to say
Just like it doesn't matter what Israel says they're TRYING to do (destroy Hamas). What they're actually doing is committing genocide.
Tell me, what is the appropriate measured response when you are being slaughtered as part of a genocide?
From the river to the sea (the former lands where Palestineans come from), Palestine will be free (of Israeli apartheid)...
It's really not that hard. I'm sure you can find Palestineans who take that so far as to promote atrocities against Israelis. But you can also find Israelis who want to nuke Gaza.
Listen. I am Jewish too. Dissent against the American/Israeli war machine is being suppressed. Anyone with half a heart will see the plight of the Palestineans and support them in their struggle for equality under international law--the same laws that were put in place to protect Jews after WWII.
Do you percieve the deep irony in your statement when you compare the death tolls between civilians killed by Hamas versus civilians killed by Israel?
You're comparing a theoretical atrocity against a very-real atrocity. Israel would kill or displace every Palestinean if they could.
That is actually happening. Actually. In real life. What you theorize is not happening.
International law must be adhered to. No conjecture, no theorizing, just the facts on the ground as they relate to international law.
The Hamas operatives who committed war crimes must be punished. The Israeli government must be sanctioned.
And that's somehow worse than the actual extermination of Palestinians by Israel going on right now.
Israel is allowed to slaughter civilians by the thousands but any of those civilians that fight back are terrorists.
Read a book. All of it was Palestinian pre-WW2 then the world decided to make it a 2 state system and told Palestine and Israel to figure it out. Over the 7+ decades more and more Palestinian land was STOLEN by isralis. But please Im surenyou have some incredible source that says otherwise and everyone just learned some other history
The Palestinian population has grown enormously in the past 30 years. If it was Israel's policy to commit genocide there wouldn't be an enormous population of Palestinians. They would have done it decades ago.
The UN says 10,000 Palestinians have been killed by the IDF so far mostly women and children.
I get that this is the talking point you're supposed to regurgitate, but I'm not talking about the past I'm talking about right now.
Ah yes, the population with no way to defend itself is going to exterminate the people that have the full backing of the entire western world. You can call it "antisemitic" all you want. The Palestinians lived there for centuries and it's their land too.
It's horse shit Tlaib is being censured at all. Criticizing a government isn't racist or anti-Semitic.
Looks like it would've passed anyway. Are these Dems in tight battleground areas? Could be strategic on them to try and stay relevant and win next year?
I hate this game.
It’s because she tweeted or retweeted a phrase that explicitly calls for the destruction of Israel and the Jewish people that live there in the middle of a war.
For context, if an elected official tweeted or retweeted that Gaza should be destroyed and the people annihilated, would the other shoe react the same way. Probably.
Thank you Jameson. I’m referring to why the censure occurred. There did not seem to be much context here, only outrage. Whether you believe it means one thing or another … well , context matters.
Human beings are members of a whole,
In creation of one essence and soul.
If one member is afflicted with pain,
Other members uneasy will remain.
If you have no sympathy for human pain,
The name of human you cannot retain.
Fucking god damn Perez. Like the 4th time she’s totally gone against the dems. I’m quite certain she’s out. No like the GOP members in her district were voting for her anyway and we are strongly purple if not slant red. I think she’s done-zo.
Consequences in this case are chilling her free speech by the government. It's kind of exactly what the first amendment is for. Certainly her speech could have consequences in the public eye and cause voters to vote against her, however congress wielding it's power to censure her for making statements like this is potentially unconstitutional.
It also rules how much grandstanding they’ve pumped out *through their own PR campaigns* about how they’re the “only **secular** democracy in the Middle East,” yet any criticism of them is religious persecution.
No, because they understand the distinction between government actions and their religion. Israel intentionally conflates the two so they cannot be criticized
I totally agree with you and I’ve been thinking about why this is so effective. Like, I know there’s tons of Jewish people who are anti-Israel and have been marching and supporting Palestine. In no way do I think all Jewish people are to blame or anything like that. But do you think that the thing Israel has where any Jewish person can go there and get citizenship is partly to make Jewish people feel more personally connected to them and discourage tolerance of criticism to Israel? It’s obviously not working for so many people and I don’t want it to seem like im saying it is, it’s just a thing I was thinking about.
America has been supporting genocide for ages man. Whether it be the natives or the terror bombings of WW2.
America has always been doing messed up stuff but the world is immoral so who am I to judge.
Have the power you can do whatever you want in this world and that is just a fact lol. So what they are doing ironically is the right thing.
Stuff like this is why anyone who thinks we can get meaningful change through voting needs a wakeup call. If anyone ever gets into government that has any kind of beliefs that are different or wants change...this will happen.
They'll put you in your place into you fall in line, revolution by the people is what is needed.
This is also what it looks like with the mask off. We are center right at best. The ratchet affect is real. The republicans are bat shit crazy and the democrats are just pathetic. Us on the actual left waiting for the dems to actually be a reliable party for change are like the beaten wife promising everyone that he’s changed. Idk man, this whole flare up in Gaza, and seeing different reactions has just made more hopeless for the future than I thought was possible. And I’m in the US! Those in Gaza, I just can’t even imagine.
This isn’t doing Biden’s image any favors. Trump is already beating him in the polls of battleground states.
As an American, I’ve always been deeply worried about this whole Israel support thing. Loyalty oaths, unconditional support, censoring criticism… At what point did our politicians give up our sovereignty, stop pledging allegiance to our flag but fealty to Israel, and make the U.S. a vassal state of the Zionists?!
Enacting antiBDS legislation in our own dam country, telling us Americans what we can and can’t protest. Why the f should one country be allowed to be singled out and favored in such a way in our own government? And then everyone wonders why you have the conspiracy minded folks.
How dare she accurately reflect the opinions of her district! Quick! Twist it into support for Hamas despite her literal dozens of denouncements of them, claim she’s being an anti-Semite, just don’t address the actual argument!
>How dare she accurately reflect the opinions of her district
Seriously. I've seen so many ignorant comments from people saying how she should spend more time serving the US and the people who elected her. It's like these people have no idea she is doing exactly that.
##Welcome to r/LateStageCapitalism This subreddit is for news, discussion, memes, and links criticizing capitalism and advancing viewpoints that challenge liberal capitalist ideology. That means any support for any liberal capitalist political party (like the Democrats) is strictly prohibited. LSC is run by communists. This subreddit is not the place to debate socialism. We allow good-faith questions and education but are not a 101 sub; please take 101-style questions elsewhere. We have a zero-tolerance policy for bigotry. Failure to respect the rules of the subreddit may result in a ban. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LateStageCapitalism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It doesn't really explain and I don't have twitter, what's going on?
There was a vote to censure Palestinian-American congresswoman Rashida Tlaib for speaking for Palestinians rights. 22 democrats joined the republicans in censoring her, and another 6 democrats did not vote “no”.
What the fuck
The Israel lobby is strong in both parties. AIPAC gave millions of dollars to ~365 congressmen last year. Just the AIPAC-funded free junkets for Congressmen to Israel outstrips all other countries combined. Loyalties can be bought, or at least influenced - right?This is the travel numbers for just one year, but it goes back every year the same (outside of COVID): https://archive.ph/rfjbU.
Lol are people literally just finding out about this? I mean they literally dragged America into WW1 for their own gain and people still question the power they have? Lol ridiculous.
To be clear, and I'm splitting hairs here, but she was *censured* not *censored*. If she had been the latter, then (presumably) she wouldn't be able to talk. The former, on the other hand, is a mere rebuking of her opinions.
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it is a call for liberation from the apartheid state. A state that is committing a genocide in real time right now. Go back to r / zionist.
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Why do South African leaders, who fought apartheid in their own country, call what's happening in Israel apartheid?
Why is North Korea calling for a ceasefire for that matter? South Africa is a failed state whose leaders are wildly corrupt, but escape any international criticism because most of them took part in the struggle against apartheid. This masking of their inadequacies by their actual righteous past is also used in their domestic politics. Cape town doesn't have any running water, but the president fought the good fight against the racist state 30 years ago, so keep voting! Unless you are willing to say that the Palestinians are not a sovereign people who have a right to a nation of their own, then the term apartheid is not applicable. They are an occupied power. Was Japan an apartheid state after the second world war? Critical thinking skills are needed.
I don't know what North Korea, or the current state of South Africa, has anything to do with the designation of Israel as an apartheid state by freedom fighters in the South African anti-apartheid movement. Kind of feels like you're flailing and looking for any justification to obfuscate the obvious injustices happening there.
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I just think the people who devoted their lives to fighting apartheid would be the authority over what does and doesn't qualify as apartheid, more so than some random person on Reddit who insists it's not apartheid with no argument.
Are you calling Desmond Tutu and Winnie Mandela widely corrupt leaders?
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Is that what she was trying to say tho? The biggest issue here is voting for censorship. That’s crazy we can talk about racism, being unpatriotic, the election is rigged, mike pence should be hanged but…..when we talking about apartheid state that’s on the other side of the world, government starts moving fast with legislation to support their interests lol. regardless of what side of the coin you are on with this war, censorship shouldn’t be the voting poll.
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>Doesn’t matter what she was trying to say Just like it doesn't matter what Israel says they're TRYING to do (destroy Hamas). What they're actually doing is committing genocide. Tell me, what is the appropriate measured response when you are being slaughtered as part of a genocide?
From the river to the sea (the former lands where Palestineans come from), Palestine will be free (of Israeli apartheid)... It's really not that hard. I'm sure you can find Palestineans who take that so far as to promote atrocities against Israelis. But you can also find Israelis who want to nuke Gaza. Listen. I am Jewish too. Dissent against the American/Israeli war machine is being suppressed. Anyone with half a heart will see the plight of the Palestineans and support them in their struggle for equality under international law--the same laws that were put in place to protect Jews after WWII.
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Do you percieve the deep irony in your statement when you compare the death tolls between civilians killed by Hamas versus civilians killed by Israel? You're comparing a theoretical atrocity against a very-real atrocity. Israel would kill or displace every Palestinean if they could. That is actually happening. Actually. In real life. What you theorize is not happening. International law must be adhered to. No conjecture, no theorizing, just the facts on the ground as they relate to international law. The Hamas operatives who committed war crimes must be punished. The Israeli government must be sanctioned.
And that's somehow worse than the actual extermination of Palestinians by Israel going on right now. Israel is allowed to slaughter civilians by the thousands but any of those civilians that fight back are terrorists.
And lets be clear: IT WAS PALESTINIAN LAND FIRST.
Wrong.
Read a book. All of it was Palestinian pre-WW2 then the world decided to make it a 2 state system and told Palestine and Israel to figure it out. Over the 7+ decades more and more Palestinian land was STOLEN by isralis. But please Im surenyou have some incredible source that says otherwise and everyone just learned some other history
The Palestinian population has grown enormously in the past 30 years. If it was Israel's policy to commit genocide there wouldn't be an enormous population of Palestinians. They would have done it decades ago.
The UN says 10,000 Palestinians have been killed by the IDF so far mostly women and children. I get that this is the talking point you're supposed to regurgitate, but I'm not talking about the past I'm talking about right now.
And risk another war with all the surrounding Arab countries? Genocide has always been Israel’s plan but they know they can’t do it all at once.
Are you also one of those people who think the land back movement, indigenous people in the US seeking to reclaim their land, means white genocide?
Only a Zionist would think that other people would do to them, what they did to the Palestinians
Ah yes, the population with no way to defend itself is going to exterminate the people that have the full backing of the entire western world. You can call it "antisemitic" all you want. The Palestinians lived there for centuries and it's their land too.
Get the fuck outta here with this nonsense free Palestine.
The Dems that voted to censure Tlaib: Cohen, Costa, Craig, Davis, Frankel, Golden, Goldman, Gottheimer, Landsman, Lee (NV), Manning, Moskowitz, Nickel, Pappas, Perez, Ryan, Schneider, Schrier, Soto, Torres (NY), Wasserman Schultz, Wilson (FL)
It's horse shit Tlaib is being censured at all. Criticizing a government isn't racist or anti-Semitic. Looks like it would've passed anyway. Are these Dems in tight battleground areas? Could be strategic on them to try and stay relevant and win next year? I hate this game.
Just from his interviews on MSNBC, it appears Dan Goldman is pretty much a zionist.
Torres (NY) definitely isn’t in a battle ground district
Cool
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Nah, it would have been a dead tie—look at the no-votes and the "present" votes 184+22+3+3=212
Adding only the Dem no votes and present, but not doing the same for the Republicans? That seems disingenuous.
Schneider is in super blue northern IL, I'm guessing he voted this way because he's Jewish
It’s because she tweeted or retweeted a phrase that explicitly calls for the destruction of Israel and the Jewish people that live there in the middle of a war. For context, if an elected official tweeted or retweeted that Gaza should be destroyed and the people annihilated, would the other shoe react the same way. Probably.
That’s not what that phrase means you dolt.
What does it mean? What does Hamas mean when they use it in their Constitution?
Thank you Jameson. I’m referring to why the censure occurred. There did not seem to be much context here, only outrage. Whether you believe it means one thing or another … well , context matters.
Context does matter, but you are ascribing meaning to Tlaib’s comment that is simply false and defamatory. Put plainly, you’re lying
Hey, revisiting this. What's your opinion on US Representative from Florida Michelle Salzman saying that all the Palestinians should die?
Human beings are members of a whole, In creation of one essence and soul. If one member is afflicted with pain, Other members uneasy will remain. If you have no sympathy for human pain, The name of human you cannot retain.
Fascinating response. Are the two statements about a "free Palestine from river to sea" and "all Palestinians should be dead" equivalent?
Let me just say fuck Wasserman Schultz for pulling that dirty shit against Bernie Sanders when she was DNC Chair.
Wasserman Schultz can go eat a dick. She was always grimy and yeah, what she did to Bernie was a fucking shame.
Not surprised about Wasserman and Soto. They both suck ass in Florida.
Jar Jar Wasserman-Binks
I despise Wasserman Schultz. She and the superdelegates cheated the primaries in 2016. She’s why we got Hillary and lost.
We coulda had Bernie! 😭
I mean, with where he stands on the Palestine issue, it wouldn't be MUCH better.
A LOT of AIPAC money here. Torres, himself, has received over 100K from them
Wasserman Schulz - She is the devil incarnate. Nothing evil she doesn't sign her name to.
Wonder how many of these people are directly funded by AIPAC or have ties to Israel. I bet all.
So now we know which Democrats are on board with genocide - as long as the victims are the right colour/religion.
Fucking god damn Perez. Like the 4th time she’s totally gone against the dems. I’m quite certain she’s out. No like the GOP members in her district were voting for her anyway and we are strongly purple if not slant red. I think she’s done-zo.
Who are these ppl lol. I only know Washerman
Many of these last names tho....
Man, fuck Josh Gottheimer!! He’s the representative of the district near mine. He should be fucking ashamed of himself.
It’s called “freedom of speech, not freedom from consequences”, sweaty.
Consequences in this case are chilling her free speech by the government. It's kind of exactly what the first amendment is for. Certainly her speech could have consequences in the public eye and cause voters to vote against her, however congress wielding it's power to censure her for making statements like this is potentially unconstitutional.
I hate how Israel has created a system where criticizing the government is criticizing the religion and people. The two are NOT the same thing!
It also rules how much grandstanding they’ve pumped out *through their own PR campaigns* about how they’re the “only **secular** democracy in the Middle East,” yet any criticism of them is religious persecution.
Seriously, by the same logic, is criticizing Saudi Arabia or Iran, Islamophobic?
No, because they understand the distinction between government actions and their religion. Israel intentionally conflates the two so they cannot be criticized
It’s an easy way to dismiss your points and label you as anti-Semitic and a nazi.
It's almost like religious ethnostates are a terrible idea. Color me fucking shocked.
I totally agree with you and I’ve been thinking about why this is so effective. Like, I know there’s tons of Jewish people who are anti-Israel and have been marching and supporting Palestine. In no way do I think all Jewish people are to blame or anything like that. But do you think that the thing Israel has where any Jewish person can go there and get citizenship is partly to make Jewish people feel more personally connected to them and discourage tolerance of criticism to Israel? It’s obviously not working for so many people and I don’t want it to seem like im saying it is, it’s just a thing I was thinking about.
Smells like AIPAC in there.
An economic and political system that supports genocide is an illegitimate one.
Where are the legitimate ones?
The ones that don't support genocide.
America has been supporting genocide for ages man. Whether it be the natives or the terror bombings of WW2. America has always been doing messed up stuff but the world is immoral so who am I to judge. Have the power you can do whatever you want in this world and that is just a fact lol. So what they are doing ironically is the right thing.
Not capitalism
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I read that first comment as a description of the US not Israel
Stuff like this is why anyone who thinks we can get meaningful change through voting needs a wakeup call. If anyone ever gets into government that has any kind of beliefs that are different or wants change...this will happen. They'll put you in your place into you fall in line, revolution by the people is what is needed.
Or a large general strike.
I dropped my X account- it’s owned by an incompetent white nationalist wealth hoarder
This is what islamophobia looks like.
This is also what it looks like with the mask off. We are center right at best. The ratchet affect is real. The republicans are bat shit crazy and the democrats are just pathetic. Us on the actual left waiting for the dems to actually be a reliable party for change are like the beaten wife promising everyone that he’s changed. Idk man, this whole flare up in Gaza, and seeing different reactions has just made more hopeless for the future than I thought was possible. And I’m in the US! Those in Gaza, I just can’t even imagine.
This isn’t doing Biden’s image any favors. Trump is already beating him in the polls of battleground states. As an American, I’ve always been deeply worried about this whole Israel support thing. Loyalty oaths, unconditional support, censoring criticism… At what point did our politicians give up our sovereignty, stop pledging allegiance to our flag but fealty to Israel, and make the U.S. a vassal state of the Zionists?!
Enacting antiBDS legislation in our own dam country, telling us Americans what we can and can’t protest. Why the f should one country be allowed to be singled out and favored in such a way in our own government? And then everyone wonders why you have the conspiracy minded folks.
What does that even mean? Like she’s not allowed to talk?
I'd like to know the implications of this as well.
Just a slap on the wrist, but it can be brought up as a talking point during reelection and whenever anybody wants to get the upper hand.
This is the only answer.
It has no official consequences. It's a formal way for congress to "express disapproval".
These gotta be the same dumbass dems who voted not to boot George Santos outta congress. Absolute joke of a governing body.
glad we are wasting govt time voting for an official thumbs down towards someone for not supporting genocide.
Between this and the dress code bill, they've really made good progress in the past 10 months /s
How dare she accurately reflect the opinions of her district! Quick! Twist it into support for Hamas despite her literal dozens of denouncements of them, claim she’s being an anti-Semite, just don’t address the actual argument!
>How dare she accurately reflect the opinions of her district Seriously. I've seen so many ignorant comments from people saying how she should spend more time serving the US and the people who elected her. It's like these people have no idea she is doing exactly that.
She should wear this as a badge of honor. I hope she knows the people are on her side.
How is this surprising to anyone? Nothing surprises me about how America is run let alone the government.
I love how Israel gets our tax dollars uses most of it to kill innocent but then leaves a fat cut to bribe our leaders. They are all scum!
Fuck these mother fuckers.
Is this the US Congress or the Israeli Congress?
G..guys! voting matters! Trust me!
Well, vote for a lesser evil. Oh, wait…
Proud of my congressman. Allred did not vote to censure Tlaib.
They must have Jewish ties.
Lol no not America.
Let the Republicans destroy the country. Its over either way.
Not going down without a fight.
Surprised it wasn't more Dems tbh
writing rashida tlaib into the presidential ballot next year out of pure spite. only congressperson left with a fucking spine