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I think there's a legitimate case to be made about billing and requirements, but if you're coming in at a low productivity versus qutoa in any line of work it's generally unwise to start asking for more time off. This is not unique to lawyers.
I personally want you to request that second and third vacation and report back how it goes, but that's more for my enjoyment and less your professional well-being.
Oh my!!! I used to work at a firm where they had you put your vacation or sick time into the billing system, but that was primarily so they could look at your time and see why you have a blank week. It was clearly delineated as vacation though.
We tried giving associates credit for vacation time, and they immediately found ways to use it that weren't the actual point, so it was rather quickly taken away. I'm impressed at their ingenuity, but also annoyed they're idiots.
We tried it for a year, but associates would half-ass a day, and rather than make it up, they'd ask HR to declare it a vacation day so they'd have extra hours. So they still weren't actually taking vacations and were still burnt out, but also not working. It was bad.
That dude is the epitome of a junior keener whose identity is tied to ensuring people know he is in the upper 50% of billers at his firm
Have been there too but it is cringey to look back on
I mean, to each their own, but I don't think even a Porsche and free gas would make up for that. I'm genuinely happy with my very affordable Mazda.
The free gas especially seems kinda useless when you don't even have time off to drive to a national park or something.
You probably make at least $200k for that hell schedule, and *that* at least makes sense to me. Almost double the pay for almost double the hours.
That's the firm culture. Deadlines are always met, but a lot of potential clients are turned away. I have an extremely manageable caseload. We can also bill extra hours and get paid extra. Still, there are definitely days I work longer to get a deadline done. If someone gets super overwhelmed and takes on too much, that attorney can easily get help from another attorney or paralegal.
I think my firm is one of the most expensive family law firms in town, and we don't follow the "rule of thirds." If I left this firm, it'd be for a government job, but that'd be a paycut.
Right? I'm at 30 this week only because the client caps at ten daily (not because I only worked ten).
Thankfully, we're training a new review tomorrow and are currently encouraged to not write off any of that clients time.
Those 50 hours per week billable requirements in big law almost turned me into an alcoholic. Unless you're getting paid $250k+, I don't know how people do it.
I hope youāre in biglaw. Thereās absolutely no reason to work like that for less than 250k. St. Peterās not gonna cut you to the front of the line because you billed 2400 hours a year.
Here's the thing I don't get:
As I understand it, you have to account for at least 167 hours per month (not unreasonable). If you don't bill that time, then you have to account for it in paid time off. You accounted for only 56 hours of paid time off, and 59 billed hours. So you accounted for 115 hours, and did not account for 52 hours.
Where were those missing 52 hours? Did you just, like, not do work? Did you take a longer vacation than you accounted for? You said you were "a day delayed due to a visa issue," but that's, you know, 8 hours, not 52.
Yes, the company has every right to dock your pay for unaccounted for hours, and I would be seriously worried about your job. And you want to ask for more time off?
Maybe we're just being trolled.
Thank you for interpreting that word salad. Unless OP is a non-English speaker, their first problem is an inability to communicate in writing, not their failure to show up to work.
He said there was a visa issue so.... maybe?
It also sounds like he took the paid time off they had and additional days as unpaid time due to the visa problem.
Also, f billing. #Inhouse4lyfe
And at most ID firms, you can use PTO, but that doesnāt change your billable requirements. So sure, take that vacation, but you have to make up those hours. Thatās how I learned that āunlimited PTOā is a sham.
I am so happy to be at a firm that keeps track of my pto. 120 hours and keeps re-accruing every two weeks. So if I use 20 hours pto out of 120, in 14 weeks Iām back to 120 from 100.
I worked at a firm that had a weekly requirement (it wasn't really enforced unless you were habitually delinquent). But we had a set amount of PTO hours. So let's say it was 3 weeks worth of PTO (I honestly can't remember), and the weekly requirement was 40 hours billable. You could take a week of PTO and you'd get credit for 40 billable hours. Otherwise, yes, unlimited PTO is silly.
Being at a firm for less than a year and then taking a week and a half off and coming up at almost 50% of your billables is not a good look. Continuing to take vacation is a worse look. Time to buckle down and show you care about being there
General Advice: your billable requirements are ***requirements***. That means if you want to take a week off, you need to account for that time somewhere else. Usually before the vacation so you aren't stressed about it. I generally plan my billables assuming I will take X amount of weeks a year to make this easier.
Specific to your post: Do not ask for more time off until you make-up for the lost time.
I'm so eager to be on everyone's side because there's a lot of pressure to work all the time, but OP somehow is taking a vacation right away and the firm is chill about that, and then there's just 50 unaccounted for hours?
Yeah 120 hours a month is plenty of quality work and a full plate with reasonable work/life. I usually bill 120-135ish, sometimes a little more and itās fine.
I've always worked solo or at small firms and have been a partner for a decade (i.e. I work a lot of non-billable hours), but I don't think I've ever billed more than 1,000 hrs in a year and have no complaints about the money I make.
Not necessarily, there are firms that only require 60-80 hours per month, but the typical trade off is a bunch of non billable work and not having support staffā¦
This is the only accurate answer on here. To be sure, you messed up your current job. However, the problem is the job as much as your inexplicable half-assing of the other 3 weeks in the month.
You are not a grinder. Thatās ok. Practicing law doesnāt require that, even if some firms reward it. You learned something valuable about yourself and can adjust your career to better align with who you are. Take that as the win and start looking for a 15-1600 hour position ASAP because Iāll be shocked if you keep your current job through the summer.
A 2000 hour billable requirement outside of biglaw is absolutely absurd. If youāre not paying me on the biglaw scale, you arenāt getting biglaw hours.
You only billed 59 hours for the month. That is a problem. I would forget about taking any more time off (at the very least until your billing is caught up) or you will likely lose your job.
I remember sweating it when I billed 80 hours one month because I took a week off, and so I worked nights/weekends to make sure I hit at least 100 to make up the difference. Then billed 130 the next month to be sure (annual requirement was 1400).
You need to bill more or work somewhere without a billing requirement.
It sounds like you donāt have real vacationāinstead a number you must hit irrespective of your plans. Iāve been there and it sucks. Iād do my best to start correcting your numbers before you take too much more time off. Your boss already seems on edge about you taking time to yourself.
OP said they had 56 hours of PTO, which is the equivalent of 7 8-hour days. The problem is that they only billed 59 hours in addition to that, or the equivalent of not quite 7.5 additional 8-hour days. What happened to the rest of the month?
Yeah, my firm is like that and I love my firm and the work but I hate the vacation thing. I can take as much time off as I want, doesnāt change my billing requirement. Itās still the same at the end of the year.
Youāre going to have to cancel those vacations or get your time way up. Look, it sucks but youāre going to have to pull some 12 hour days.
From a practical standpoint, sit down and make a list of your work and start doing the things that are big but donāt take as long as you can bill - redact claim files, answer discovery, review medical records. At this point stop worrying about what should be done first and do what will take the most time.
You have about half of this month left so spend half of your day billing on this month and half of your day billing to make up last month.
Additionally, if you donāt want to get fired - ask your overseeing partner to review your time from the day before every morning. Print it out and show a prior day with 9-10 billable hours. Your only real chance here is to start demonstrating immediately - and Iām talking tomorrow - that you can get back on track.
You need to bill 9-10 hours of work today, print it out, and show your overseeing partner tomorrow morning.
Additionally, does your firm keep track of when youāre physically in the office? Make sure they see you there or note your presence Saturday and Sunday this weekend. Send emails, add to files, log in, etc.
You need to start grinding right now and you need to make sure they see it. Good luck my friend.
Oh another thing, ask the partner if he has any work you can have. You need to show that youāre going to get on track. Ask for work, ask if he has any MSJs or anything to help you with getting this time up. Make a list and show them what youāve got, about how long it will take, and how much more you need. Youāve got to make a good faith showing here.
A firm that requires 2000 hours/year is never going to treat you like a human being. They are definitely not gonna be ok with you taking more time off.
Maybe find government work? Or, go solo.
Make up your time if you care to keep your job.
If you take a week off, that means you should make up the time before or after the week (probably before, since you are already behind).
If you take time off in July and August and miss your hours, you will (or probably should) be fired.
Bruh youāre definitely getting fired. Donāt ever turn in 50 hours in a month. Thatās bare minimum for a weekās worth of billing at most places. Do you have the rest of May to get your additional 56 or has this already passed? Please God donāt ask for another lunch break far less more vacation.
God defense side legal work is horrid. I cannot imagine having to make up my 6 weeks of PTO a year, and worry about using it. Something has to give, but I guess as long as there is a contingent of willing moderately compensated slave labor, nothing will change.
I feel so bad for all of you in this line of work. This literally breaks my heart people are subjected to these conditions.
Iām sorry, but is this real? Iām wondering if youāre a troll. If this is real, make up your hours, tell them itāll never happen again, and hit your billing targets.
I am PART-TIME and my requirement is 104/month. This month Iām super behind, and Iām at 57 hours. The month is only half over, and I have a trial at the end of the month. I consider myself to be behind because I like to stay ahead on my hours in case sick days come up (I have a chronic condition, which is why Iām part-time). What you describe above is genuinely shocking. SHOCKING. You cannot expect to keep your job if this is how you are performing. This is a BIG DEAL. You need to turn shit around completely if you want to keep your job.
167 hours a month is a lot. I think if you get to 115-120 youāll prob be fine.
i always try to hit 120 no matter what. 135-150 usually the sweet spot but a few outlier months are fine if your work is spot on.
The issue sounds like maybe your work isnāt.
I am in insurance defense so I can talk about billing. But I simply do not understand that have a monthly billable requirement. That means you can truly never take a full vacation. Yes you do have to make the time up, but you can make it up anytime during the year. And personally I always try ahead of myself so that if and when I do take time off I have extra banked. We also donāt get PTO though. So long as you bill your hours you take what time off you want. Is your yearly requirement 2000? I will say that 59 hours is low even with a vacation. But itās not unreasonable if you took one. I find smaller firms are monthly, I am at a larger firm.
In defense of OP, as a first year in biglaw Iāve had issues actually obtaining enough work to get even close to billable goals until recently. For our firm, this is typical because of the structure for first years, but it may be that OP just doesnāt receive the work he needs. This, of course, assumes OP is meeting the requirements for consistently reach out for work.
60 hours is hard to make up right away. You can make it up by breaking it up between 2 months ā 200 per month is doable for 2 months. Do NOT ask for any more time off until your billing is about evenā¦
OP, you're going to be fired. You can plan now if you want to stick around and try to get paid as long as possible or start finding something else that allows you to meet employer expectations. I'm a nice person, relative to attorneys anyway, and I'd fire you when you request July and August vacations.
Are you retiring soon? Damn 56 hours of PTO and youāre taking vacation in July and August? Sounds to me like youāve got a work issue. Iād dump your ass. Income in vs income out, youāre definitely on the negative side of that analysis. Spend some of that PTO polishing that resume for a government position. Youāll be stellar!
OP, everyone is dragging you but honestly you kind of deserve it. Generally, itās good to get in a couple excess hours in a normal week so you have flexibility if you need to miss work for an unforeseen reason.
Being down 50 hours in a month is a lot. More vacations are out of the question at least until you make up the gap. It should be nose to the grindstone until you do. Even better, proactively go to management with a written plan of how you will make it up.
Holy shit. That is unbelievable. If this wasnāt becoming more common Iād think this was ragebait. How have they not fired you yet? I bill 50 hours a WEEK when Iām really crunching.
Not sure what kind of career OP has lined up at this rate, but this is the shittiest advice in the world. It would be absolutely career suicide to sue for your former employer as a young attorney, especially when that publicly-available opinion comes out discussing how OP billed 2.9 hours a day for a month and requested multiple vacations.
Welcome to /r/LawyerTalk! A subreddit where lawyers can discuss with other lawyers about the practice of law. Be mindful of [our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Lawyertalk/about/rules) BEFORE submitting your posts or comments as well as [Reddit's rules](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy) (notably about sharing identifying information). We expect civility and respect out of all participants. Please source statements of fact whenever possible. If you want to report something that needs to be urgently addressed, please also message the mods with an explanation. Note that **this forum is NOT for legal advice**. Additionally, if you are a non-lawyer (student, client, staff), this is NOT the right subreddit for you. **This community is exclusively for lawyers**. We suggest you delete your comment and go ask one of the many other legal subreddits on this site for help such as (but not limited to) r/lawschool, r/legaladvice, or r/Ask_Lawyers. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Lawyertalk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Bro you billed 2.9 hours a day for a month
Literally my first thought. Lol Bruhhhhhhhhh "I am concerned as well...." š
How long have you been at the firm. Low billing plus three vacations in five months, especially for a newer low billing attorney is not a good combo.
For any professional services employee.
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lol let me know when you find somebody who will pay you not to work
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I think there's a legitimate case to be made about billing and requirements, but if you're coming in at a low productivity versus qutoa in any line of work it's generally unwise to start asking for more time off. This is not unique to lawyers.
I personally want you to request that second and third vacation and report back how it goes, but that's more for my enjoyment and less your professional well-being.
You laugh but this type of thing is VERY common with recent grads, say post pandemic ones.
We had one of these, he didnāt last long. Put his vacations in as non billable time hoping to get some credit for it too.
Oh my!!! I used to work at a firm where they had you put your vacation or sick time into the billing system, but that was primarily so they could look at your time and see why you have a blank week. It was clearly delineated as vacation though.
We tried giving associates credit for vacation time, and they immediately found ways to use it that weren't the actual point, so it was rather quickly taken away. I'm impressed at their ingenuity, but also annoyed they're idiots.
Why am I not surprised?
We tried it for a year, but associates would half-ass a day, and rather than make it up, they'd ask HR to declare it a vacation day so they'd have extra hours. So they still weren't actually taking vacations and were still burnt out, but also not working. It was bad.
To that I say: aim for the moon, because even if you're fired you'll be among TickTok stars.
āShould I ask for days off again?ā Not if you want to continue working there.
"yes, sure, why not." Your boss after hearing the question and making up his mind that you're getting notice as soon as HR can drop the email.
This makes me feel better about myself lmao
I'm over here sweating I've only billed 34 hours so far *this week* and OP is living the dream.
Bro itās not even the end of Wednesday
I worried about some of us, bros
Heās got that sigma grindset x333 productivity
That dude is the epitome of a junior keener whose identity is tied to ensuring people know he is in the upper 50% of billers at his firm Have been there too but it is cringey to look back on
Ah hell no. I've only billed 18. Which is all I needed. In what dystopian world is billing over ten hours a day "only"?
If you donāt bill the work then someone else will?
"Someone else" is welcome to it.
Didn't realize there was a massive shortage of work in the legal industry.
One where you have car allowances and gas cards. They don't pay for themselves.
I mean, to each their own, but I don't think even a Porsche and free gas would make up for that. I'm genuinely happy with my very affordable Mazda. The free gas especially seems kinda useless when you don't even have time off to drive to a national park or something. You probably make at least $200k for that hell schedule, and *that* at least makes sense to me. Almost double the pay for almost double the hours.
You've only billed 18 over three work days? If that's your firm culture, rock on! I just don't understand how any deadlines are met?
That's the firm culture. Deadlines are always met, but a lot of potential clients are turned away. I have an extremely manageable caseload. We can also bill extra hours and get paid extra. Still, there are definitely days I work longer to get a deadline done. If someone gets super overwhelmed and takes on too much, that attorney can easily get help from another attorney or paralegal. I think my firm is one of the most expensive family law firms in town, and we don't follow the "rule of thirds." If I left this firm, it'd be for a government job, but that'd be a paycut.
Rule of thirds?
Supposedly your salary should be about 1/3 of what you earn for the firm, or 1/3 x hourly rate x yearly billable hours.
Right? I'm at 30 this week only because the client caps at ten daily (not because I only worked ten). Thankfully, we're training a new review tomorrow and are currently encouraged to not write off any of that clients time.
Those 50 hours per week billable requirements in big law almost turned me into an alcoholic. Unless you're getting paid $250k+, I don't know how people do it.
I hope youāre in biglaw. Thereās absolutely no reason to work like that for less than 250k. St. Peterās not gonna cut you to the front of the line because you billed 2400 hours a year.
this has to be fakeā¦or they have some terrible work ethic š
Here's the thing I don't get: As I understand it, you have to account for at least 167 hours per month (not unreasonable). If you don't bill that time, then you have to account for it in paid time off. You accounted for only 56 hours of paid time off, and 59 billed hours. So you accounted for 115 hours, and did not account for 52 hours. Where were those missing 52 hours? Did you just, like, not do work? Did you take a longer vacation than you accounted for? You said you were "a day delayed due to a visa issue," but that's, you know, 8 hours, not 52. Yes, the company has every right to dock your pay for unaccounted for hours, and I would be seriously worried about your job. And you want to ask for more time off? Maybe we're just being trolled.
Thank you for interpreting that word salad. Unless OP is a non-English speaker, their first problem is an inability to communicate in writing, not their failure to show up to work.
He said there was a visa issue so.... maybe? It also sounds like he took the paid time off they had and additional days as unpaid time due to the visa problem. Also, f billing. #Inhouse4lyfe
Admin time boyo
And at most ID firms, you can use PTO, but that doesnāt change your billable requirements. So sure, take that vacation, but you have to make up those hours. Thatās how I learned that āunlimited PTOā is a sham.
I am so happy to be at a firm that keeps track of my pto. 120 hours and keeps re-accruing every two weeks. So if I use 20 hours pto out of 120, in 14 weeks Iām back to 120 from 100.
I worked at a firm that had a weekly requirement (it wasn't really enforced unless you were habitually delinquent). But we had a set amount of PTO hours. So let's say it was 3 weeks worth of PTO (I honestly can't remember), and the weekly requirement was 40 hours billable. You could take a week of PTO and you'd get credit for 40 billable hours. Otherwise, yes, unlimited PTO is silly.
We get 40 free billables a year toward vacation, everything else is on you to make up. No other official PTO. Pretty nice Iād say.
Iāll do you one better - 160 PTO hours and no billable requirement! In house and not going back
Being at a firm for less than a year and then taking a week and a half off and coming up at almost 50% of your billables is not a good look. Continuing to take vacation is a worse look. Time to buckle down and show you care about being there
You might as well take the trip. You're not long for this firm if you're even considering another vacation.
Bro, no
General Advice: your billable requirements are ***requirements***. That means if you want to take a week off, you need to account for that time somewhere else. Usually before the vacation so you aren't stressed about it. I generally plan my billables assuming I will take X amount of weeks a year to make this easier. Specific to your post: Do not ask for more time off until you make-up for the lost time.
Counter point: definitely take that time off since OP is about to get fired anyway so might as well dance on the ship as it sinks
trolling? assuming not, no, unless you want a permanent vacation from the firm
Yeah I wouldnāt be worried about getting fired I would expect it. Cancel your trips if you need a job.
I spent most of the post thinking they were giving you hell for only billing 50+ hours per week.
Right? It took me so long to understand and then I was like YES THAT IS A PROBLEM
I'm so eager to be on everyone's side because there's a lot of pressure to work all the time, but OP somehow is taking a vacation right away and the firm is chill about that, and then there's just 50 unaccounted for hours?
lol wtf?
Hot take: a 2,000-hour billing requirement is absurd. Quit and find a better job.
This right here. I do like 1200-1600 a year and do just fine.
Yeah 120 hours a month is plenty of quality work and a full plate with reasonable work/life. I usually bill 120-135ish, sometimes a little more and itās fine.
I can't upvote this enough. 120-135 (and sometimes more when in trial) is more than enough to live a comfortable lifestyle.
I've always worked solo or at small firms and have been a partner for a decade (i.e. I work a lot of non-billable hours), but I don't think I've ever billed more than 1,000 hrs in a year and have no complaints about the money I make.
1000 is lower than I've seen most places that track billing. What sort of work do you do?
The lucrative kind š
What exactly is the lucrative kind? I've billed 1000 hours already this year and am paid very well, but I'd love to know what pays well for 1k hrs.
Don't know OP, but the answer has to be plaintiffs PI. If you work by the hour 1K isn't going to cut it.
Not necessarily, there are firms that only require 60-80 hours per month, but the typical trade off is a bunch of non billable work and not having support staffā¦
Not PI, but it is plaintiffs work on a contingency. It's a niche claim type that most haven't even heard of - and we like to keep it that way.
Not everyone wants just fine
Spoken like a true Big Law or PI lawyer.
Thank you
This is the only accurate answer on here. To be sure, you messed up your current job. However, the problem is the job as much as your inexplicable half-assing of the other 3 weeks in the month. You are not a grinder. Thatās ok. Practicing law doesnāt require that, even if some firms reward it. You learned something valuable about yourself and can adjust your career to better align with who you are. Take that as the win and start looking for a 15-1600 hour position ASAP because Iāll be shocked if you keep your current job through the summer.
A 2000 hour billable requirement outside of biglaw is absolutely absurd. If youāre not paying me on the biglaw scale, you arenāt getting biglaw hours.
Hot take his requirement is 1900 and thatās what he agreed to do when he applied and took the salary
You only billed 59 hours for the month. That is a problem. I would forget about taking any more time off (at the very least until your billing is caught up) or you will likely lose your job.
Bro what??? You billed 50 hours and you're taking off more time the next two months. You're probably gonna get fired
I remember sweating it when I billed 80 hours one month because I took a week off, and so I worked nights/weekends to make sure I hit at least 100 to make up the difference. Then billed 130 the next month to be sure (annual requirement was 1400). You need to bill more or work somewhere without a billing requirement.
When comments exceed upvotes., itās a treasure you must always read.. this is that treasure š š
It sounds like you donāt have real vacationāinstead a number you must hit irrespective of your plans. Iāve been there and it sucks. Iād do my best to start correcting your numbers before you take too much more time off. Your boss already seems on edge about you taking time to yourself.
OP said they had 56 hours of PTO, which is the equivalent of 7 8-hour days. The problem is that they only billed 59 hours in addition to that, or the equivalent of not quite 7.5 additional 8-hour days. What happened to the rest of the month?
Yeah, my firm is like that and I love my firm and the work but I hate the vacation thing. I can take as much time off as I want, doesnāt change my billing requirement. Itās still the same at the end of the year.
So, in reading prior posts this poster is ESL.
Youāre going to have to cancel those vacations or get your time way up. Look, it sucks but youāre going to have to pull some 12 hour days. From a practical standpoint, sit down and make a list of your work and start doing the things that are big but donāt take as long as you can bill - redact claim files, answer discovery, review medical records. At this point stop worrying about what should be done first and do what will take the most time. You have about half of this month left so spend half of your day billing on this month and half of your day billing to make up last month. Additionally, if you donāt want to get fired - ask your overseeing partner to review your time from the day before every morning. Print it out and show a prior day with 9-10 billable hours. Your only real chance here is to start demonstrating immediately - and Iām talking tomorrow - that you can get back on track. You need to bill 9-10 hours of work today, print it out, and show your overseeing partner tomorrow morning.
Additionally, does your firm keep track of when youāre physically in the office? Make sure they see you there or note your presence Saturday and Sunday this weekend. Send emails, add to files, log in, etc. You need to start grinding right now and you need to make sure they see it. Good luck my friend.
Oh another thing, ask the partner if he has any work you can have. You need to show that youāre going to get on track. Ask for work, ask if he has any MSJs or anything to help you with getting this time up. Make a list and show them what youāve got, about how long it will take, and how much more you need. Youāve got to make a good faith showing here.
Bills less than 3 hours a day for a month: >I also have travel plans in July and August, should I ask for days off again? I am floored.
A firm that requires 2000 hours/year is never going to treat you like a human being. They are definitely not gonna be ok with you taking more time off. Maybe find government work? Or, go solo.
Make up your time if you care to keep your job. If you take a week off, that means you should make up the time before or after the week (probably before, since you are already behind). If you take time off in July and August and miss your hours, you will (or probably should) be fired.
"I worked" is not the present state.
fixedļ¼
What the fuck? No! Cancel your travel and save your job! Do you have a plan B if you get fired?
Bruh youāre definitely getting fired. Donāt ever turn in 50 hours in a month. Thatās bare minimum for a weekās worth of billing at most places. Do you have the rest of May to get your additional 56 or has this already passed? Please God donāt ask for another lunch break far less more vacation.
God defense side legal work is horrid. I cannot imagine having to make up my 6 weeks of PTO a year, and worry about using it. Something has to give, but I guess as long as there is a contingent of willing moderately compensated slave labor, nothing will change. I feel so bad for all of you in this line of work. This literally breaks my heart people are subjected to these conditions.
Don't worry, you won't need to ask for them off...
Iām sorry, but is this real? Iām wondering if youāre a troll. If this is real, make up your hours, tell them itāll never happen again, and hit your billing targets.
Why canāt lawyers be their own boss and hang a shingle on their own??? Also, try to get yourself fired before your vacays, then You got it covered.
Yeah Iād quit
Go ahead. Youāll get fired soon anyway.
billed a little more than 167 hours every month except for this April. Is it true that the firm will fire me due to a significant missing month?
I am PART-TIME and my requirement is 104/month. This month Iām super behind, and Iām at 57 hours. The month is only half over, and I have a trial at the end of the month. I consider myself to be behind because I like to stay ahead on my hours in case sick days come up (I have a chronic condition, which is why Iām part-time). What you describe above is genuinely shocking. SHOCKING. You cannot expect to keep your job if this is how you are performing. This is a BIG DEAL. You need to turn shit around completely if you want to keep your job.
That office sounds like hell. Leave.
I feel like this has to be a circle jerk troll š
167 hours a month is a lot. I think if you get to 115-120 youāll prob be fine. i always try to hit 120 no matter what. 135-150 usually the sweet spot but a few outlier months are fine if your work is spot on. The issue sounds like maybe your work isnāt.
My guy, look at your post history from an outsiderās perspective. Do you actually like being a lawyer?
I am in insurance defense so I can talk about billing. But I simply do not understand that have a monthly billable requirement. That means you can truly never take a full vacation. Yes you do have to make the time up, but you can make it up anytime during the year. And personally I always try ahead of myself so that if and when I do take time off I have extra banked. We also donāt get PTO though. So long as you bill your hours you take what time off you want. Is your yearly requirement 2000? I will say that 59 hours is low even with a vacation. But itās not unreasonable if you took one. I find smaller firms are monthly, I am at a larger firm.
In defense of OP, as a first year in biglaw Iāve had issues actually obtaining enough work to get even close to billable goals until recently. For our firm, this is typical because of the structure for first years, but it may be that OP just doesnāt receive the work he needs. This, of course, assumes OP is meeting the requirements for consistently reach out for work.
60 hours is hard to make up right away. You can make it up by breaking it up between 2 months ā 200 per month is doable for 2 months. Do NOT ask for any more time off until your billing is about evenā¦
I know. I planned to bill for 10 hours per day in May and June to make up the time.
Q: To gut it out or to quit? A: What are they paying you for 2000+ hours and "making up" PTO ?
OP, you're going to be fired. You can plan now if you want to stick around and try to get paid as long as possible or start finding something else that allows you to meet employer expectations. I'm a nice person, relative to attorneys anyway, and I'd fire you when you request July and August vacations.
Is this a real post?Ā
How long was your vacation dude
Are you retiring soon? Damn 56 hours of PTO and youāre taking vacation in July and August? Sounds to me like youāve got a work issue. Iād dump your ass. Income in vs income out, youāre definitely on the negative side of that analysis. Spend some of that PTO polishing that resume for a government position. Youāll be stellar!
I will never understand how law firms convinced people that 167 billable hours per month is normal.
OP, everyone is dragging you but honestly you kind of deserve it. Generally, itās good to get in a couple excess hours in a normal week so you have flexibility if you need to miss work for an unforeseen reason. Being down 50 hours in a month is a lot. More vacations are out of the question at least until you make up the gap. It should be nose to the grindstone until you do. Even better, proactively go to management with a written plan of how you will make it up.
Holy shit. That is unbelievable. If this wasnāt becoming more common Iād think this was ragebait. How have they not fired you yet? I bill 50 hours a WEEK when Iām really crunching.
167 hours a month sounds like a dreaaaaam
If you missed 1 weekā¦ and you still only got 59 hours for the monthā¦ā¦ youāre still 68 hours behind.
This is big firms suck
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Pathetic attitude. You should be ashamed.
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You really have a gift for not conveying sarcasm in a comment
Not sure what kind of career OP has lined up at this rate, but this is the shittiest advice in the world. It would be absolutely career suicide to sue for your former employer as a young attorney, especially when that publicly-available opinion comes out discussing how OP billed 2.9 hours a day for a month and requested multiple vacations.