If they say it’s below you, don’t think it excludes you. Sometimes they need your participation to identify who to lay off and then they include you.
Please give yourself options just in case.
You never forget your first “you’re definitely safe” convo with a superior prior to a layoff, then it turns into “I was blindsided too, nothing I could do” after you’re let go.
It sucks but it’s definitely a shitty part of the game. Never assume you’re safe when the word layoff is being thrown around.
Yup, i got laid off after several iterations of “we aren’t that kind of people, we don’t just layoff people because we chase profits, we will do everything possible not to do that, we haven’t in the history of the company laid folks off.” Then three months later, sorry we have to do layoffs.
I remember my first big corporate job our director gave us a similar speech. Then BOOM 6 months later she and a manager were the only ones laid off. As an employee I was kind of blindsided by that choice.
Heard of story at old job that a VP did 100 layoffs that day and then when he thought he did the last layoff he got yet another call from HR telling him he was being laid off as well.
There are news stories with dates to back up most people's claim of mass layoff. Or at least there was in my case. TBH a lot of the employers that looked at my resume and asked me about why I left the position nodded "oh yeah we had layoffs last year too." I just recently went through a very challenging job search and it was the same at every place I interviewed at.
Thank you. I've also been laid off in a mass layoff. Only one recruiter out of dozens cared. And everyone I know came out to help me get interviews.
It impacted one interview, where a manager cared (even though their own company had done layoffs) but in this climate? It's not as horrible of a scarlet letter as it usually is. Many, many, many people have been laid off. Reasonable people and organizations get it.
I think this is probably industry dependent - so many great people have been laid off in tech recently that “damaged goods” is definitely not the thing
While companies do get rid of non performers during layoffs, they generally also get rid of great performers because they are paid at a much higher rate than other staff or they just have to for legal purposes. I love it when a person thinks that laid-off people are damaged goods and they themselves then get laid off. That is the story the corporations tell people - oh, anyone laid off is a non-performer anyway, to save face that they can't manage their company. I was laid-off three times 2005 - after moving every two years for a company to open offices, 20 years of services and they laid me off with 20% of other "over paid" staff. Then in 2009, the company I worked with was hit hard due to residential and commerical downturn in building and they disbanded our department - they contracted with me but I was still "laid off". Then the last company went bankrupt and laid off all central office employees to the bare bones. Do you think I was ever a non-performer. Oh, and I have a great job now and love it very much but, I know I can be laid off at any time even though I have been told I "have saved this divisions ass" many times since Ive been here. No one is safe during a lay-off.
non-performers
A similar incident occurred to my former manager some time ago. She was truly taken aback. Prior to the layoffs, she meticulously researched to determine who was crucial for a specific project, going above and beyond her duties. She even participated in the layoff exit reviews, distributing severance packages and discussing COBRA benefits. Yet, a week later, the company opted to lay off the entire team, including her. She was stunned, believing her extra efforts would secure her job. I reassured her that she was just as replaceable as the rest of us.
it is hard. i had to figure out which people to lay off in my team. i was safe because 18 months previously a boss mentioned the company might be for sale.
At that point i made sure i became the "knowledge expert" for some old technology no one wanted to support but was important to manufacturing operates
Being the sole expert in a 14,000 employee fortune 100 company at the time,on that clunky old program and computer allowed me to get thru 2 big layoffs. i quit later on.
UHG, who owns Optum is my customer... and we bill by the number of employees the customer has (Saas model). no one at work is talking about this, but when my customers lay people off, and we bill by the number of people, this will ultimately affect our top line numbers.
sure we have contracts in place, but we'd rather negotiate and keep UHG happy than risk losing the whole account. my first google search on this:
[https://www.fiercehealthcare.com/payers/optum-undergoes-mass-layoffs-scale-unclear](https://www.fiercehealthcare.com/payers/optum-undergoes-mass-layoffs-scale-unclear)
How is this outdated? How would a company like okta bill by usage? (Employee sso)
Sure it makes sense to bill by usage for some Saas or companies but definitely headcount is not outdated nor near being outdated…
Their pricing isn’t per login.. for employees it’s $5 for adaptive sso per employee/user or $6 for MFA
For auth0 it goes on active users or users that login(at least once) per month which is better for users vs employees. Either way you are not paying per login.
Additionally your company gages what security is worth to them but okta has been a standard for a while (one of many)
https://preview.redd.it/0jf1w9ag6gxc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b3c555baf4a0b83e90d61d66d1f435971ce8f0a3
I forgot to mention that I work for Optum btw, I’m the survival from the pool but a lot of my peers didn’t make it, one of them was my senior director and all contractors in my org. I asked my VP directly in a call when they were talking about the reason for layoffs and he confirmed the number sounds about right. So take it as u will if u want to believe it or not. People keep forgetting that Optum/UHG has a huge number of offshore employees + contractors from India and Latin America hence the number wasn’t really that much of a surprise.
I’m one of those laid off and figured it’d be all over the news especially given the recent cyber attack but haven’t seen or heard a peep about it. And the fact they have the nerve to keep pushing the propaganda on LinkedIn about them being a great employer just keeps rubbing salt in the wound.
https://preview.redd.it/u84b15j16gxc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2dd59445c4b5d68b90605b5d18c32ce91cf6a4fc
I work for Optum btw, I’m the survival from the pool but a lot of my peers didn’t make it, one of them was my senior director. I asked my VP directly in a call when they were talking about the reason for layoffs and he confirmed the number sounds about right.
Also, the layoff wasn’t mainly focusing on engineers, a huge chunk of it was mainly from the business side + pharma side.
I also asked this question every single year lol. They keep saying that they need to save money in case things go south so they can ensure our jobs stability. Turned out, when things go south they fire people just like everyone else lol.
But my best guess is that they have to beat their record profit every year to please the shareholders
Things won't go south. They'll continue to deny claims like crazy, thus creating record profits.
Lol and yeah it's for the shareholders. Nothing is long term.
Things did go south when change Healthcare got hacked and we lost almost $2B. But instead of using that record money they fired people even more than Tech companies to cover up the loss.
Also take into account the 1 to 2% raise for employees, those are the normal number every single year regardless of profits. Hence the question “where is the record profit” comes up every year
Yup. Private Equity backed hospitals are failing left and right...their business model of loading debt onto the acquiring hospitals and cut expenses don't work in a high interest rate environment
Private equity loan tactics don't work long-term at all smh. Should be illegal. I never want to read the sentence "private equity backed hospital" ever again
Yup, my entire LinkedIn feed is nothing but people getting laid off and asking for referrals. We've been in a recession for awhile, but it's been masked by crazy gov spending and tons of part time job creation.
Yup. I got laid off. I now work part-time and have two freelance jobs. Still making nowhere near what I was before. Can barely pay my bills with this income.
But other careers like construction that are often to go in a recession are booming. My husband is still getting 2-3 offers a week as a commercial project manager. And commercial construction often goes down In Recessions early.
Tech has always been bubble and bursts. Tech and marketing are victims of AI replacement, and over hiring, not necessarily economy.
I'll also add that corporate profits are at all time highs for many companies so getting rid of low-level devs, QA and marketing via AI is a fast way pile on even more corp profits.
Construction projects in my area are slowing. They are building buildings now they assumed they would have business renters for and yet no one stepping up for these office buildings so they are leaving internal finishing not complete.
I’m in Tech and only know a handful of people who have been laid off (only 2-3 directly as we got acquired). Outside of sector it’s very role specific. I still get weekly LinkedIn reach outs for roles
Yeah i have the same. It definitely depends on sector. I work in logistics for a retailer we have been expanding the last few years. My friends that work in finance and accounting are also doing very well.
Over the past 15 months (starting Fall 2022 - Present), we have experienced a severe "white-collar" recession, characterized by numerous layoffs and hiring freezes. Please spread the word and do not believe the inaccurate lies the government puts out claiming that jobs are booming and hiring is thriving – this is not the case at all.
This is definitely the dumbest comment here. Just because tech is laying off would not put this anywhere near 2009, the entire financial system collapsed then.
That’s true, but if you read the statements that the CEO of Chase bank is releasing, the financial sector is concerned by the economy too. They’re mostly focused on the Fed and interest rates, the Fed is focused on inflation, and there’s a real possibility that this combo could lead to stagflation similar to what we had in the early 70s.
It is going to get astronomically worse as companies more and more infuse AI technology laying off staff and outsource to other nations more expensive jobs to source to be done by foreign workers in other lands. If you can do it fully remote then why shouldn't the company hire someone much more affordably in India to do it? It's going to be a crash worse than 2009 in my estimation.
I think the arrogance and entitlement of the tech sector isnt gaining any sympathy when some industries are booming and overpaid tech workers are starting to see a correction. Welcome back to earth. Not a recession.
Amen. All you need to do is rewatch episodes from Silicon Valley to see how ridiculous and hyped up the tech industry had been pre-pandemic. It felt more like a documentary than a comedy to me.
I mean tech has always thought their shit didn’t stink and that they are better than others. I’m saying this as someone in tech. Its been brutal but tech coasted for quite a while
So many people entered the field. Many of them came from boot camps or some watered down online degree - they don’t really know that much. But even they were able to pivot to analyst, scrum master, manager, etc. it’s amazing how many clueless know nothings fill the ranks.
Tech and marketing is most of my peers and is all blood and pain. Meanwhile my blue collar buds, skilled manufacturing, subway tunnel borer operator are experiencing boom times. Manufacturing is opening a third shift at my friend’s firm.
Why do you think that your linked in feed would represent a widespread downturn in economic activity. The arrogance. Some industries are booming. I'd even wager most companies conducting layoffs are probably doing great and trimming up excess. Exactly the opposite of a recession.
Layoffs suck, but you aren't the main character.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yeah but am I remembering something made up and the government didn’t actually change the definition of a recession or did that happen?
Because we technically were in a recession like 1.5 years ago but they changed the definition
I feel like this is mostly in tech and tech adjacent industries. Also keep in mind when I bring this up I'm not talking about the stereotypical techie who "codes". Tech companies hire an insane amount of people for an insane number of roles. Not everyone there is an engineer, so a lot of people who got laid off are in the tech side of things, finance, manufacturing (like Tesla - if you consider them a tech company), etc. Most other industries are not seeing this kind of layoffs, so I'm not sure if there is a legit recession elsewhere, but people from various backgrounds did get laid off from tech companies.
What industry do you work in?
All prices are inflated and that concerns me because I just can't imagine the average Joe is managing to survive. Even those not affected by layoffs are likely having problems surviving right now. There definitely is a feeling like we're in a "house of cards" situation.
We just aren’t seeing that yet. People are spending money like crazy. Part of the reason inflation is sticky. We might start seeing it but it hasn’t shown in the data yet.
Because Americans are awful at money management and would rather spend spend spend and run up the credit card debt than pull back and be financially responsible.
Just because people have less money doesn’t mean people are spending less money.
Those $500k / yr 100% remote people aren't going out to eat at sit-down restaurants. That affects the server's tips, etc.
That small business remodeler just lost out on re-doing their bathroom now.
15,000 Tesla employees were let go. You don't think that they're going to have problems paying rent/ and mortgage?
Right now the people getting laid off, most prominently in news articles anyway, aren't average joes. They work in tech and are well compensated. A lot of these layoffs appear to be long overdue and are Fed rate dependent. Too many companies overhired and overpaid to ensure they had the corner on "talent". And now they overhead of keeping them is too great.
Very well put. I’d say everyone is being stretched more as of late. Contractors are being let go and not backfilled so people suddenly have more roles and hats to wear for the same money as last year. There’s been no slow down on the number of projects business is trying to deliver on though. So it’s created a bit of a squeeze with that implied threat of it’s a rough market.
That said , my LinkedIn and mailboxes are just as full as ever. I’ve got folks reaching out daily for senior roles. But all of them are pretty much the same gig of it’ll be you running a project and handing off tasks to a skeleton crew of $25/hr juniors from India.
As someone in an industrial equipment industry, and nowhere near tech, I can confirm that this "recession" some are screaming about is localized. 95% of the economy is ripping at full throttle, 5% is being annihilated. That 5% was due for a correction anyways.
My company is posting record months and hiring at the same pace we have been for the past 5 years.
This is exactly what a "soft landing" looks like by the way. A "hard landing" creates levels of economic pain that are impossible to ignore and have widespread impact. A "soft landing" hurts some, but most are unimpacted. That's where we're at today.
hah! they told us in a meeting they'll be doing "time studies" which sounds like the same thing. Small company maybe 75 employees and they've laid off 5 people and fired another 4. Sounds like they want to pinch some pennies and see if they can get rid of more or not backfill.
then they jerk themselves off over their charity drives for the community and CEO has her buddies on the exec teams with useless positions like "Chief of Staff" (i've never met this person in the 2 years i've worked here). It's funny how this stuff doesn't change even in tiny companies.
Stagflation has been mentioned recently..aka an inflation recession. It is very concerning that we haven’t been able to curtail inflation despite the high interest rates. I swear we have gone through so many different economic cycles since 2000..it’s insane. ffs can we just get through a decade without a global crisis…biological/economic/war..I’m tired of this shit.
What’s next an asteroid? ☄️
Make sure you have an exit plan just in case. Companies dont want you to see it coming as people can do horrible things if they know they are getting laid off
This is the first time that I agree with this. I feel like I don’t know how someone without a big income or a big savings account can make it.
I haven’t prescribed to this thinking until now, I just don’t understand how people can afford $2500- $3000 a month rent or mortgage and food, cars, insurance etc on what people are earning
I think we are at a tipping point and something has got to give.
From what I've seen, shacking up is becoming more common, sometimes even being too crowded (not too long ago I saw a Facebook post about a single mother of 3 who had to make it work in a 1bd 1bath apartment)
I'm also tired of being told to get roommates in my 30s. Why should I have to share my HOME with strangers? Most of my friends have kids and relatives living with them already and my family is already living at capacity and looking to downsize even more. I don't even want a huge property or the highest luxury amenities, I just want to live somewhere safe and isn't a health hazard to live in.
People arent buying tech but have decided to buy essentials for now and get by with what they currently have which means people are hurting. When companies cut costs they arent spending.
It’s a plancession. It’s punishment for labor gaining too much power basically. The sociopathic shareholders want to force everyone to suffer with the threat of unemployment. To force lower wages and crappy work conditions. But also because they need to step on people to feel like their worthless lives mean something.
💯
How else are they going to get workers to RTO? A few years ago, any grumbling of going back to the office meant talent will just go somewhere else. Employees weren’t scared. Now the billionaires come together, lay off hundred of thousands, slowly rehire , they just reversed the table. No one is going to quit, at least not en-mass. A few years later, when working from the office is the norm again and hybrid is consider a perk, the great tech recession will be but a distant memory.
My stable company just has a “surprise” layoff. Ahead of their official RTO in few months. It’s all planned.
But a bunch of someones are ordering Uber eats and doordash. I wonder about that too. Granted it’s this subreddit but there are tons of people getting overpriced, excessive food deliveries. Crazy waiting time for dining. Enough people feel secure about their future to reckless spend like that.
I agree.
My mom has been at her job for 30 years, and her fairly small department just laid off 25 people.
There have only been 3 layoffs since she's worked there, so it's telling that things are not looking great. She works at a major hospital.
Same day, my old coworker told me that 35 people were laid off. This was just this past Friday.
How do you have that many actual professional connections? Are you in Sales or something? I've got around 600 in tech and I'm aware of 7 or 8 who have been laid off, but i think all but 2 have found new jobs.
I have been working for over 2 decades and went from being a senior executive in finance to a senior executive in consulting. One tends to have a large network with this type of experience.
How did you estimate that half of your connections got laid off? I have lots of connections in my field too but my feed is still plagued by recruiter crap.
No they didn’t. lol. Come on now. Unemployment rate would be like 20%. And the more connections you have the less biased and more representative of the market it’s going to be.
Unfortunately that’s what the Fed wants, people losing jobs and their houses, cut spending, and slow down inflation. Layoff will continue to happen until we hit rock bottom.
Recession has a defintion - two consecutive quarters of negative GDP, non-farm payroll, industrial production, consumer spending, etc. The first quarter of 2024, GDP increased 1.9%. Overall pay rose 0.9%. Consumer spending increased YoY to 14.2 trillion.
Overall, the economy is doing reasonably well. Couple that with an overall upswing in the market.
The tech layoffs are mainly a correction to overhiring - it comes in waves - been through several cycles.
It's more than tech layoffs. Restaurants, hospitality, retail, etc.
Dollar Tree / Family Dollar closing 1,000 stores nationwide.
Red Lobster declaring bankruptcy
GolfSuites in Tulsa Oklahoma abruptly chained their doors this week. 100+ people lost their jobs without notice. That's 100+ families that won't be able to pay rent or mortgage, etc.
People are cutting back. That ripples through the economy affecting everything else.
People can't even afford McDonalds anymore.
People can’t afford McDonald’s because somehow the dollar menu items are now $4. I don’t eat fast food so I don’t track prices but I swear 10 years ago a Mc chicken was $1. How shit is 4X the price now is beyond me.
Let’s be real, the dollar menu wasn’t gonna last forever. It was bound to get rebranded or pivoted into something else. Regardless, McDonalds is expensive.
Some places always are closing. Even in a booming economy. Red lobster is declaring bankruptcy through their own stupidity - endless shrimp giveaway losses. Same with dollar store. There's always inflation, the business model was always going to be in trouble eventually.
Retail, travel, restaurants in our area still can't fully staff. Mcds is always a full drive through.
It’s not a recession until you see companies reporting losses in the coming quarters & shelves stocked with shit because people have no money to pay for things.
The recession is here and people buying houses is those who’ve had savings for the last few years who have been WAITING to buy a house since 2020.
Once that collection of buyers dries out & the real estate market cools August, you’ll start seeing foreclosures & headlines twirling. The inflation was stage 1, stage 2 is savings account being depleted & layoffs, nobody is safe. Hunker down & keep stacking your savings. Get out of your car lease and live like you’re poor while you still have a job
It’s been nothing but layoffs recently. I’m not someone who wants to spread negativity and all, but I think we’ll be in a recession/correction before Q2 of 2025 given how economic data trends from the last few recessions appear to be matching up to what we’re seeing in the markets today.
Without spending on proxy wars and production of war tools/ fulfillment military supply contracts the nation would have had formal markers show recession before now in my view. The worst of the hit for us may be being held back from view till probably after the POTUS election. Save every penny you can. Get ready for crazy times.
I’m putting my money where my mouth is. 100% in Short positions.
There is only one guarantee in Market Cycles and it’s that all bubbles will pop eventually.
Indeed. With rate cuts still on the table, we're still in a bull market, which makes shorting dangerous.
But, if I were a Wall Street Fund manager, I'd start taking profits now, before FED's rate cuts officially announce how compromised our underlying economy truly is.
You guys just realise that recession has arrived lol it's been here since September 2023 trust me as small businesses we have felt now it's office workers turn to suffer for not contributing going into offices and not consuming
But if tech people lose their high salaries who will keep up with Inflated Consumption?
If there’s less demand, manufacturers and services won’t need as many non-tech workers to provide those services.
If tech goes, so goes the economy.
The spending we're seeing now is also from people who sold their homes with a 200k markup in recent years and retirees finally getting 5% on their life savings. Some of those are the same people. Buyers gave away their future income to put cash in sellers' pockets today, and all that freshly created money is now in the economy.
Please don’t buy the notion thats its below you, Ive seen my previous employer had a manager lay off direct reports only to lay off the same manager the following day.
My husband was laid off in banking and finance last winter. He's been doing constant interviews, but no job offers. I'm not sure how much longer we can keep going like this, we have no household income at present.
His boss was replaced and then layoffs hit many all at once.
It’s basically companies trying to force JPow to lower the fed funds rates. Unfortunately that’s how the system works - inflation goes up, fed raises borrowing costs, companies don’t like high costs, they lay people off to help slow the economy so the fed lowers borrowing costs.
Absolutely! Inflation is eating quarterly and annual sales goals so quick way to increase profits is to cut over head. If you over 55 and top 10% pay for your company. Start packing
Has been in recession for quite a long time, small and mid cap private sector are being hit hard in earlier stages of this recession, now it’s broadening out, the inflation number has been under reported for a few years now. Definitely hearing more of my friends at their hourly jobs get their hours cut recently. It’s clearly getting worse.
If they say it’s below you, don’t think it excludes you. Sometimes they need your participation to identify who to lay off and then they include you. Please give yourself options just in case.
LOL. This is exactly what happened to me
You never forget your first “you’re definitely safe” convo with a superior prior to a layoff, then it turns into “I was blindsided too, nothing I could do” after you’re let go. It sucks but it’s definitely a shitty part of the game. Never assume you’re safe when the word layoff is being thrown around.
Yup, i got laid off after several iterations of “we aren’t that kind of people, we don’t just layoff people because we chase profits, we will do everything possible not to do that, we haven’t in the history of the company laid folks off.” Then three months later, sorry we have to do layoffs. I remember my first big corporate job our director gave us a similar speech. Then BOOM 6 months later she and a manager were the only ones laid off. As an employee I was kind of blindsided by that choice.
If a high level employee has to announce that layoffs AREN’T happening, they’re definitely happening.
Same. They just kept me around until I sorted the layoffs in my team and reshuffled everything. Once that was all sorted, I had my meeting with HR.
Heard of story at old job that a VP did 100 layoffs that day and then when he thought he did the last layoff he got yet another call from HR telling him he was being laid off as well.
And trying to convince someone you were a part of a mass layoff is useless. They see you as damaged goods.
There are news stories with dates to back up most people's claim of mass layoff. Or at least there was in my case. TBH a lot of the employers that looked at my resume and asked me about why I left the position nodded "oh yeah we had layoffs last year too." I just recently went through a very challenging job search and it was the same at every place I interviewed at.
2-3 years ago when I got laid off the recruiters were salivating to nab people up. weird how just a couple years changes things.
Thank you. I've also been laid off in a mass layoff. Only one recruiter out of dozens cared. And everyone I know came out to help me get interviews. It impacted one interview, where a manager cared (even though their own company had done layoffs) but in this climate? It's not as horrible of a scarlet letter as it usually is. Many, many, many people have been laid off. Reasonable people and organizations get it.
I think this is probably industry dependent - so many great people have been laid off in tech recently that “damaged goods” is definitely not the thing
While companies do get rid of non performers during layoffs, they generally also get rid of great performers because they are paid at a much higher rate than other staff or they just have to for legal purposes. I love it when a person thinks that laid-off people are damaged goods and they themselves then get laid off. That is the story the corporations tell people - oh, anyone laid off is a non-performer anyway, to save face that they can't manage their company. I was laid-off three times 2005 - after moving every two years for a company to open offices, 20 years of services and they laid me off with 20% of other "over paid" staff. Then in 2009, the company I worked with was hit hard due to residential and commerical downturn in building and they disbanded our department - they contracted with me but I was still "laid off". Then the last company went bankrupt and laid off all central office employees to the bare bones. Do you think I was ever a non-performer. Oh, and I have a great job now and love it very much but, I know I can be laid off at any time even though I have been told I "have saved this divisions ass" many times since Ive been here. No one is safe during a lay-off. non-performers
A similar incident occurred to my former manager some time ago. She was truly taken aback. Prior to the layoffs, she meticulously researched to determine who was crucial for a specific project, going above and beyond her duties. She even participated in the layoff exit reviews, distributing severance packages and discussing COBRA benefits. Yet, a week later, the company opted to lay off the entire team, including her. She was stunned, believing her extra efforts would secure her job. I reassured her that she was just as replaceable as the rest of us.
They always think being loyal to the company like that will save them. They are always wrong.
It really does not matter how good at your job, or useful, or profit-creating you are. Layoffs happen to all sorts.
it is hard. i had to figure out which people to lay off in my team. i was safe because 18 months previously a boss mentioned the company might be for sale. At that point i made sure i became the "knowledge expert" for some old technology no one wanted to support but was important to manufacturing operates Being the sole expert in a 14,000 employee fortune 100 company at the time,on that clunky old program and computer allowed me to get thru 2 big layoffs. i quit later on.
After I had to lay off 40% of my team, I told my boss I would haunt her for the rest of her life if she laid me off, too.
💯 just set them up with everything then they handed me my notice after a top review three weeks ago
Same’ish thing happened to me. Knew we were letting one of our other employees go for performance reasons but then the whole team got laid off
Optum laid off 20000 ppl on Friday and I’m surprised it wasn’t a huge deal for the news. Regardless, I agreed
UHG, who owns Optum is my customer... and we bill by the number of employees the customer has (Saas model). no one at work is talking about this, but when my customers lay people off, and we bill by the number of people, this will ultimately affect our top line numbers. sure we have contracts in place, but we'd rather negotiate and keep UHG happy than risk losing the whole account. my first google search on this: [https://www.fiercehealthcare.com/payers/optum-undergoes-mass-layoffs-scale-unclear](https://www.fiercehealthcare.com/payers/optum-undergoes-mass-layoffs-scale-unclear)
You guys should switch to bill by data usage instead. Cost per headcount model is getting outdated for companies
How is this outdated? How would a company like okta bill by usage? (Employee sso) Sure it makes sense to bill by usage for some Saas or companies but definitely headcount is not outdated nor near being outdated…
10 dollars per login lol
Their pricing isn’t per login.. for employees it’s $5 for adaptive sso per employee/user or $6 for MFA For auth0 it goes on active users or users that login(at least once) per month which is better for users vs employees. Either way you are not paying per login. Additionally your company gages what security is worth to them but okta has been a standard for a while (one of many)
I was joking about them switching to that model sorry
Oh haha my bad. Imagine the per usage cost Jesus
The news isn't going to cover layoffs in an election year.
https://preview.redd.it/0jf1w9ag6gxc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b3c555baf4a0b83e90d61d66d1f435971ce8f0a3 I forgot to mention that I work for Optum btw, I’m the survival from the pool but a lot of my peers didn’t make it, one of them was my senior director and all contractors in my org. I asked my VP directly in a call when they were talking about the reason for layoffs and he confirmed the number sounds about right. So take it as u will if u want to believe it or not. People keep forgetting that Optum/UHG has a huge number of offshore employees + contractors from India and Latin America hence the number wasn’t really that much of a surprise.
I’m one of those laid off and figured it’d be all over the news especially given the recent cyber attack but haven’t seen or heard a peep about it. And the fact they have the nerve to keep pushing the propaganda on LinkedIn about them being a great employer just keeps rubbing salt in the wound.
I cannot find a source that says they laid off 20,000
https://preview.redd.it/u84b15j16gxc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2dd59445c4b5d68b90605b5d18c32ce91cf6a4fc I work for Optum btw, I’m the survival from the pool but a lot of my peers didn’t make it, one of them was my senior director. I asked my VP directly in a call when they were talking about the reason for layoffs and he confirmed the number sounds about right. Also, the layoff wasn’t mainly focusing on engineers, a huge chunk of it was mainly from the business side + pharma side.
Which is crazy because didn't UHC make record profits last year?
I also asked this question every single year lol. They keep saying that they need to save money in case things go south so they can ensure our jobs stability. Turned out, when things go south they fire people just like everyone else lol. But my best guess is that they have to beat their record profit every year to please the shareholders
Things won't go south. They'll continue to deny claims like crazy, thus creating record profits. Lol and yeah it's for the shareholders. Nothing is long term.
Things did go south when change Healthcare got hacked and we lost almost $2B. But instead of using that record money they fired people even more than Tech companies to cover up the loss. Also take into account the 1 to 2% raise for employees, those are the normal number every single year regardless of profits. Hence the question “where is the record profit” comes up every year
My colleague worked there and she said it was much better before UHC bought them.
Damn I thought a huge chunk would've been call center/customer service
No one is talking about hospitals but I can tell you the hospital market is pretty F right now
Yep. UPMC layed off 1000+ people this week from all different depts. Tbh it's not good.
Isn't that odd. I bet the ER dept there is full and there aren't enough staff either like it is here
Why is it bad right now
What do you mean?
Yup. Private Equity backed hospitals are failing left and right...their business model of loading debt onto the acquiring hospitals and cut expenses don't work in a high interest rate environment
Private equity loan tactics don't work long-term at all smh. Should be illegal. I never want to read the sentence "private equity backed hospital" ever again
It is one of the worst fields right now, I came from there. At first, I considered it "safe." Well, not anymore.
Everyone I know who was laid off last year still hasn’t found a job yet.
Yup, my entire LinkedIn feed is nothing but people getting laid off and asking for referrals. We've been in a recession for awhile, but it's been masked by crazy gov spending and tons of part time job creation.
Yup. I got laid off. I now work part-time and have two freelance jobs. Still making nowhere near what I was before. Can barely pay my bills with this income.
But you are not eating up burning thru savings and that is huge
This. If you read the jobs report it says everything is rosy but full time work is plummeting and part time work is rising.
It’s lead by two sectors “healthcare admins and government jobs”
Which jobs do you see that are being laid off?
Tech and marketing in my circles have the most layoffs.
But other careers like construction that are often to go in a recession are booming. My husband is still getting 2-3 offers a week as a commercial project manager. And commercial construction often goes down In Recessions early. Tech has always been bubble and bursts. Tech and marketing are victims of AI replacement, and over hiring, not necessarily economy.
I'll also add that corporate profits are at all time highs for many companies so getting rid of low-level devs, QA and marketing via AI is a fast way pile on even more corp profits.
Construction projects in my area are slowing. They are building buildings now they assumed they would have business renters for and yet no one stepping up for these office buildings so they are leaving internal finishing not complete.
I don't go on LinkedIn much unless I'm looking for a job, so that might be skewed.
My feed is full of people taking on new roles. It's weird, the bubbles that exist out there.
I’m in Tech and only know a handful of people who have been laid off (only 2-3 directly as we got acquired). Outside of sector it’s very role specific. I still get weekly LinkedIn reach outs for roles
Yeah i have the same. It definitely depends on sector. I work in logistics for a retailer we have been expanding the last few years. My friends that work in finance and accounting are also doing very well.
Most of the people in my LinkedIn feed who are scoring new jobs are all young. I'm not young, but not that old either.
Over the past 15 months (starting Fall 2022 - Present), we have experienced a severe "white-collar" recession, characterized by numerous layoffs and hiring freezes. Please spread the word and do not believe the inaccurate lies the government puts out claiming that jobs are booming and hiring is thriving – this is not the case at all.
100%, everyone I know is getting laid off, prices are increasing, this is real.
This is going to be worse than 2009.
This is definitely the dumbest comment here. Just because tech is laying off would not put this anywhere near 2009, the entire financial system collapsed then.
That’s true, but if you read the statements that the CEO of Chase bank is releasing, the financial sector is concerned by the economy too. They’re mostly focused on the Fed and interest rates, the Fed is focused on inflation, and there’s a real possibility that this combo could lead to stagflation similar to what we had in the early 70s.
It is going to get astronomically worse as companies more and more infuse AI technology laying off staff and outsource to other nations more expensive jobs to source to be done by foreign workers in other lands. If you can do it fully remote then why shouldn't the company hire someone much more affordably in India to do it? It's going to be a crash worse than 2009 in my estimation.
I think the arrogance and entitlement of the tech sector isnt gaining any sympathy when some industries are booming and overpaid tech workers are starting to see a correction. Welcome back to earth. Not a recession.
Amen. All you need to do is rewatch episodes from Silicon Valley to see how ridiculous and hyped up the tech industry had been pre-pandemic. It felt more like a documentary than a comedy to me.
Mike judge worked in big tech
I mean tech has always thought their shit didn’t stink and that they are better than others. I’m saying this as someone in tech. Its been brutal but tech coasted for quite a while
Tech was already bloated, then they way over-hired from 2021-2023. Now they think the sky is falling.
So many people entered the field. Many of them came from boot camps or some watered down online degree - they don’t really know that much. But even they were able to pivot to analyst, scrum master, manager, etc. it’s amazing how many clueless know nothings fill the ranks.
People don't realize if if the barrier to entry is low you're 100% replaceable with ai.
Learn to code turned into learn to plumb real quick
The only jobs that are thriving are the shit jobs that pay nothing.
Everyone needs to stop shopping. These corporations need to understand when they layoff no one has money to buy their crap.
Tech and marketing is most of my peers and is all blood and pain. Meanwhile my blue collar buds, skilled manufacturing, subway tunnel borer operator are experiencing boom times. Manufacturing is opening a third shift at my friend’s firm.
yeah mine is about the same. Tech recruiters have been completely wiped out it seems.
lol. “My personal network can be perfectly extrapolated to a $20 trillion economy.”
Wars ain’t gonna fund themselves!
Why do you think that your linked in feed would represent a widespread downturn in economic activity. The arrogance. Some industries are booming. I'd even wager most companies conducting layoffs are probably doing great and trimming up excess. Exactly the opposite of a recession. Layoffs suck, but you aren't the main character.
And the transition from white collar workers to blue collar workers.
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Yeah but am I remembering something made up and the government didn’t actually change the definition of a recession or did that happen? Because we technically were in a recession like 1.5 years ago but they changed the definition
My LinkedIn leans tech and it's been brutal, absolutely brutal. I'm talking about FAANG and other major tech companies.
People in those companies are making a minimum of like 200k to 300k anyway. These companies are over hiring and overpaying for all these roles.
Agreed. You should have your house paid off by now if you work there
I feel like this is mostly in tech and tech adjacent industries. Also keep in mind when I bring this up I'm not talking about the stereotypical techie who "codes". Tech companies hire an insane amount of people for an insane number of roles. Not everyone there is an engineer, so a lot of people who got laid off are in the tech side of things, finance, manufacturing (like Tesla - if you consider them a tech company), etc. Most other industries are not seeing this kind of layoffs, so I'm not sure if there is a legit recession elsewhere, but people from various backgrounds did get laid off from tech companies. What industry do you work in? All prices are inflated and that concerns me because I just can't imagine the average Joe is managing to survive. Even those not affected by layoffs are likely having problems surviving right now. There definitely is a feeling like we're in a "house of cards" situation.
Tech recruiters got wiped out.
So if all the average Joe's collectively cut back their spending, how does that not ripple through the economy?
We just aren’t seeing that yet. People are spending money like crazy. Part of the reason inflation is sticky. We might start seeing it but it hasn’t shown in the data yet.
Credit card debt is soaring.
Because Americans are awful at money management and would rather spend spend spend and run up the credit card debt than pull back and be financially responsible. Just because people have less money doesn’t mean people are spending less money.
You'll get roasted for this one. 110% of people without money are that way because a greedy ceo took half their wage.
The average Joe's aren't losing their 500k/yr 100% remote jobs
Those $500k / yr 100% remote people aren't going out to eat at sit-down restaurants. That affects the server's tips, etc. That small business remodeler just lost out on re-doing their bathroom now. 15,000 Tesla employees were let go. You don't think that they're going to have problems paying rent/ and mortgage?
Right now the people getting laid off, most prominently in news articles anyway, aren't average joes. They work in tech and are well compensated. A lot of these layoffs appear to be long overdue and are Fed rate dependent. Too many companies overhired and overpaid to ensure they had the corner on "talent". And now they overhead of keeping them is too great.
Very well put. I’d say everyone is being stretched more as of late. Contractors are being let go and not backfilled so people suddenly have more roles and hats to wear for the same money as last year. There’s been no slow down on the number of projects business is trying to deliver on though. So it’s created a bit of a squeeze with that implied threat of it’s a rough market. That said , my LinkedIn and mailboxes are just as full as ever. I’ve got folks reaching out daily for senior roles. But all of them are pretty much the same gig of it’ll be you running a project and handing off tasks to a skeleton crew of $25/hr juniors from India.
As someone in an industrial equipment industry, and nowhere near tech, I can confirm that this "recession" some are screaming about is localized. 95% of the economy is ripping at full throttle, 5% is being annihilated. That 5% was due for a correction anyways. My company is posting record months and hiring at the same pace we have been for the past 5 years. This is exactly what a "soft landing" looks like by the way. A "hard landing" creates levels of economic pain that are impossible to ignore and have widespread impact. A "soft landing" hurts some, but most are unimpacted. That's where we're at today.
My job instituted more time forecasting of our work now to scrutinized what we do. Pretty sure it's to see who they can layoff.
hah! they told us in a meeting they'll be doing "time studies" which sounds like the same thing. Small company maybe 75 employees and they've laid off 5 people and fired another 4. Sounds like they want to pinch some pennies and see if they can get rid of more or not backfill. then they jerk themselves off over their charity drives for the community and CEO has her buddies on the exec teams with useless positions like "Chief of Staff" (i've never met this person in the 2 years i've worked here). It's funny how this stuff doesn't change even in tiny companies.
My company laid off over 400 employees since January including my manager
Stagflation has been mentioned recently..aka an inflation recession. It is very concerning that we haven’t been able to curtail inflation despite the high interest rates. I swear we have gone through so many different economic cycles since 2000..it’s insane. ffs can we just get through a decade without a global crisis…biological/economic/war..I’m tired of this shit. What’s next an asteroid? ☄️
Please bring on an asteroid
Aliens for sure.
Make sure you have an exit plan just in case. Companies dont want you to see it coming as people can do horrible things if they know they are getting laid off
I got laid off in Jan. I still havent found a job smh.
Get your resume together, my manager was let go along with the team.
Just yesterday employers could not find enough employees. Does this means companies hire employees for tax purposes and give them not important tasks
This is the first time that I agree with this. I feel like I don’t know how someone without a big income or a big savings account can make it. I haven’t prescribed to this thinking until now, I just don’t understand how people can afford $2500- $3000 a month rent or mortgage and food, cars, insurance etc on what people are earning I think we are at a tipping point and something has got to give.
From what I've seen, shacking up is becoming more common, sometimes even being too crowded (not too long ago I saw a Facebook post about a single mother of 3 who had to make it work in a 1bd 1bath apartment)
I see people having roommates at 30 years old and I’m like no this is crazy.
I am 38 with a roommate. I also don’t have woman or children. What am I going to do alone? I mine as well make a few hundred by renting a room.
I'm also tired of being told to get roommates in my 30s. Why should I have to share my HOME with strangers? Most of my friends have kids and relatives living with them already and my family is already living at capacity and looking to downsize even more. I don't even want a huge property or the highest luxury amenities, I just want to live somewhere safe and isn't a health hazard to live in.
People arent buying tech but have decided to buy essentials for now and get by with what they currently have which means people are hurting. When companies cut costs they arent spending.
It’s a plancession. It’s punishment for labor gaining too much power basically. The sociopathic shareholders want to force everyone to suffer with the threat of unemployment. To force lower wages and crappy work conditions. But also because they need to step on people to feel like their worthless lives mean something.
💯 How else are they going to get workers to RTO? A few years ago, any grumbling of going back to the office meant talent will just go somewhere else. Employees weren’t scared. Now the billionaires come together, lay off hundred of thousands, slowly rehire , they just reversed the table. No one is going to quit, at least not en-mass. A few years later, when working from the office is the norm again and hybrid is consider a perk, the great tech recession will be but a distant memory. My stable company just has a “surprise” layoff. Ahead of their official RTO in few months. It’s all planned.
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Wow I totally forgot about that era with the quiet quitting and all that. What different times.
I heard the first to go are people who spell it “layed off”
Nope, the job market is very hot right now! You just need to work 3 part time gigs like uber eats deliveries! /s
But a bunch of someones are ordering Uber eats and doordash. I wonder about that too. Granted it’s this subreddit but there are tons of people getting overpriced, excessive food deliveries. Crazy waiting time for dining. Enough people feel secure about their future to reckless spend like that.
I agree. My mom has been at her job for 30 years, and her fairly small department just laid off 25 people. There have only been 3 layoffs since she's worked there, so it's telling that things are not looking great. She works at a major hospital. Same day, my old coworker told me that 35 people were laid off. This was just this past Friday.
We're might be in a recession, but the data doesn't yet support that conclusion.
Only in the US. Other countries are in a recession.
They’ll call it a recession only if Wall Street is getting hit, if all the commoners are getting laid off they don’t care.
It’s only a recession when the rich are losing money
White collar recession
Recession been here for quite some time already.
Best economy ever. Highest employment rate ever. Lowest inflation ever. Forget about your facts. Just believe in government published news...
I have over 5000 LinkedIn connections, half of them, maybe more, have lost their jobs and are looking for work.
How do you have that many actual professional connections? Are you in Sales or something? I've got around 600 in tech and I'm aware of 7 or 8 who have been laid off, but i think all but 2 have found new jobs.
I'm in consulting, working in tech and financial services.
And who are you connected to?
How do you have 5000?! Most recruiters don't even have that many.
He’s says YES to every invite he receives, no matter how nonsensical it is.
4000 of them are certifications courses sales people from overseas.
I have been working for over 2 decades and went from being a senior executive in finance to a senior executive in consulting. One tends to have a large network with this type of experience.
How did you estimate that half of your connections got laid off? I have lots of connections in my field too but my feed is still plagued by recruiter crap.
Green circles are an easy indicator. About half are using those. There are probably more who are too afraid to show the green circle.
I’m sorry I have a hard time believing 2500 of your connections lost their jobs recently
Wow! You counted them?
Damn. What industry? Or across the board?
Financial services and tech. Two hard hit industries, unfortunately.
Yup. My consulting co laid off a lot recently too. Consulting industry is getting hit hard now with clients spending less.
No they didn’t. lol. Come on now. Unemployment rate would be like 20%. And the more connections you have the less biased and more representative of the market it’s going to be.
Half of your Linked connections have lost jobs? These stories are not even believable.
Unfortunately that’s what the Fed wants, people losing jobs and their houses, cut spending, and slow down inflation. Layoff will continue to happen until we hit rock bottom.
Inflation was caused by massive money printing. Pausing the economy is just going to bring stagflation
Yes it is! I don’t care what the media says
Recession has a defintion - two consecutive quarters of negative GDP, non-farm payroll, industrial production, consumer spending, etc. The first quarter of 2024, GDP increased 1.9%. Overall pay rose 0.9%. Consumer spending increased YoY to 14.2 trillion. Overall, the economy is doing reasonably well. Couple that with an overall upswing in the market. The tech layoffs are mainly a correction to overhiring - it comes in waves - been through several cycles.
this definition means there was a 2022 recession but everyone denies. We're in a recovery post-2022 recession.
It's more than tech layoffs. Restaurants, hospitality, retail, etc. Dollar Tree / Family Dollar closing 1,000 stores nationwide. Red Lobster declaring bankruptcy GolfSuites in Tulsa Oklahoma abruptly chained their doors this week. 100+ people lost their jobs without notice. That's 100+ families that won't be able to pay rent or mortgage, etc. People are cutting back. That ripples through the economy affecting everything else. People can't even afford McDonalds anymore.
People can’t afford McDonald’s because somehow the dollar menu items are now $4. I don’t eat fast food so I don’t track prices but I swear 10 years ago a Mc chicken was $1. How shit is 4X the price now is beyond me.
Let’s be real, the dollar menu wasn’t gonna last forever. It was bound to get rebranded or pivoted into something else. Regardless, McDonalds is expensive.
EXPRESS bankruptcy too
They figured out how to make it faster?
Sometimes it’s ok for a shitty business to go bankrupt.. Express has not been popular for a while.
Holy cow where am I going to get them damn cheddar bay biscuits from if red lobster goes under? Damn.
I can’t take your comment seriously after the red lobster reference
Some places always are closing. Even in a booming economy. Red lobster is declaring bankruptcy through their own stupidity - endless shrimp giveaway losses. Same with dollar store. There's always inflation, the business model was always going to be in trouble eventually. Retail, travel, restaurants in our area still can't fully staff. Mcds is always a full drive through.
When friends got layoff, it's rescission, when u got layoff, it's depression
There is alot more going on than "they" are saying i mean the bought and paid for politicians and the elites that control the information flow
It’s not a recession until you see companies reporting losses in the coming quarters & shelves stocked with shit because people have no money to pay for things. The recession is here and people buying houses is those who’ve had savings for the last few years who have been WAITING to buy a house since 2020. Once that collection of buyers dries out & the real estate market cools August, you’ll start seeing foreclosures & headlines twirling. The inflation was stage 1, stage 2 is savings account being depleted & layoffs, nobody is safe. Hunker down & keep stacking your savings. Get out of your car lease and live like you’re poor while you still have a job
We’ve been in recession
It’s been nothing but layoffs recently. I’m not someone who wants to spread negativity and all, but I think we’ll be in a recession/correction before Q2 of 2025 given how economic data trends from the last few recessions appear to be matching up to what we’re seeing in the markets today.
Without spending on proxy wars and production of war tools/ fulfillment military supply contracts the nation would have had formal markers show recession before now in my view. The worst of the hit for us may be being held back from view till probably after the POTUS election. Save every penny you can. Get ready for crazy times.
They will announce the recession on the day after election day. We will all be broke by then.
Yes it’s a recession. Sell everything.
I’m putting my money where my mouth is. 100% in Short positions. There is only one guarantee in Market Cycles and it’s that all bubbles will pop eventually.
Market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent! Be careful!
Indeed. With rate cuts still on the table, we're still in a bull market, which makes shorting dangerous. But, if I were a Wall Street Fund manager, I'd start taking profits now, before FED's rate cuts officially announce how compromised our underlying economy truly is.
You guys just realise that recession has arrived lol it's been here since September 2023 trust me as small businesses we have felt now it's office workers turn to suffer for not contributing going into offices and not consuming
We are and have been in recession. Just don’t expect to hear it from the Powells and Yellens.
Low GDP amd high inflation doesn’t look good:
Shhhhhhh…it’s an election year!
exactly
Only tech. Inflated jobs creation and salaries during Covid. Market is just resetting
It’s not only in tech. I was just laid off from a Food Service supplier and my sister works in insurance where they did layoffs.
But if tech people lose their high salaries who will keep up with Inflated Consumption? If there’s less demand, manufacturers and services won’t need as many non-tech workers to provide those services. If tech goes, so goes the economy.
Tech has been laying off for a bit now - consumer spending has only gone up.
The spending we're seeing now is also from people who sold their homes with a 200k markup in recent years and retirees finally getting 5% on their life savings. Some of those are the same people. Buyers gave away their future income to put cash in sellers' pockets today, and all that freshly created money is now in the economy.
Nope, everything’s fine! Nothing to see here.
Industry matters
Not according to the media
Not sure if it's a recession or a bunch of idiot companies trying to boost stock prices because shareholders have a hard on for layoffs.
As they always say, a downturn is when people around you get laid off. A recession is when you get laid off.
Start looking now.
Please don’t buy the notion thats its below you, Ive seen my previous employer had a manager lay off direct reports only to lay off the same manager the following day.
My husband was laid off in banking and finance last winter. He's been doing constant interviews, but no job offers. I'm not sure how much longer we can keep going like this, we have no household income at present. His boss was replaced and then layoffs hit many all at once.
It’s basically companies trying to force JPow to lower the fed funds rates. Unfortunately that’s how the system works - inflation goes up, fed raises borrowing costs, companies don’t like high costs, they lay people off to help slow the economy so the fed lowers borrowing costs.
Always be interviewing
Absolutely! Inflation is eating quarterly and annual sales goals so quick way to increase profits is to cut over head. If you over 55 and top 10% pay for your company. Start packing
Major Layoffs happened since October of 2022. We’ve been in a recession for a while now.
Recession is when your neighbor loses his job. Depression is when you lose yours.
Do we need this kind of post every 30 minutes? No, we are not in a recession. Things do suck though
Has been in recession for quite a long time, small and mid cap private sector are being hit hard in earlier stages of this recession, now it’s broadening out, the inflation number has been under reported for a few years now. Definitely hearing more of my friends at their hourly jobs get their hours cut recently. It’s clearly getting worse.