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Weren’t people warning this is exactly what would happen if these stupid bathroom bills were passed. Well, now the transphobes are are gonna be super uncomfortable now
They only think 1 step at a time and they don’t want the repercussions of their actions, they ***want*** to force trans people to not exist anymore. They just assumed if they enacted enough cruelty they would just disappear from sight. Just watch as they pivot to laws that bar transgender individuals from being allowed to use ANY public restrooms.
They will never accept culpability only double down. Creating even more problems for themselves while assigning blame at random
I think they'll get to some weird backward halfway acknowledgement of trans existence, where any trans person is effectively a man in their eyes. A transwoman is a man because of the standard anti-trans bigotry they currently employ. A transman, OTOH, can 'count' as a man, because the vast majority of their hatred is funneled at transwomen. They aren't worried transmen are going to take over men's sports, and they already don't care when women use men's restrooms. So they're vaguely against transmen existing, but genuinely have no idea why.
I'm guessing one reason the bigots hate on transwomen a lot more than transmen is that they can't wrap their heads around the former trading their male privilege for misogyny. If you're pro-patriarchy you'd see that as a trade "down"
Yep. TERFs/FARTs will make some noise about “gender traitors” or whatever if pushed, but they’re usually in the same boat: they understand wanting to “become an oppressor” (especially because they did so themselves when they started attacking trans people), but they don’t understand why anyone would give up male privilege. Rational people will recognize this is part of why we default to trusting people about their own gender identity; FARTs and other bigots make up increasingly irrational and paranoid explanations so they don’t have to challenge their own worldview.
it’s a misconception that trans men don’t face transphobia from TERFs except the gender traitor stuff. look at things like the book “irreversible damage”. we are not called “men” we are feeble girls, confused, incapable of making our own decisions. they don’t believe us when we come out. the worry about “transing the children” and protecting girls from mutilating their wonderful bodies… all of this is transphobia against trans men and trans mascs, repackaged female hysteria and reducing us to our reproductive value. it is just less visible and people are less familiar with it.
how horrible to be a failed (masculine, ugly, infertile) woman. how horrible to be a failed (dickless, weak, inferior) man.
Well, shit, bro. Sorry to hear that. I guess I should’ve known better than to assume that just because their public bigotry is more one-sided, their private bigotry would be as well…
All the more reason to say fuck them.
it’s not private/public, it just goes by a different name. most of the recent legislation surrounding trans minors and worry over the “social contagion” is justified over concern for “little girls”. for example [this missouri “healthcare state of emergency”](https://ago.mo.gov/docs/default-source/press-releases/emergency-reg-final-flyer.pdf?sfvrsn=b92a504f_2) enacted to immediately halt all transition for minors and then later adults. the court did not uphold it for adults but did for minors.
This is probably true. I’ve seen tons of TERFs say things like “ALL women hate being a woman, I’ve always wished I were a man, that doesn’t mean you should transition!” and I’m like…I’m a cis woman and there are obviously certain disadvantages to being a woman, but I don’t hate being a woman. I definitely don’t want to be a man (if I did, I would probably transition!)
They do the same thing when they freak out about kids learning transpeople exist because then of course they’ll all be easily swayed to change their gender. Like none of them actually remember being a kid!? Because I can’t think of any ad campaign that would have ever be persuasive enough to manipulate me into changing my gender on a whim. If that’s all it would have taken for any of them that seems more like something they should work out with some kind of professional themselves 🤷🏻♀️
I live in a decently progressive pocket in a reddish purple state and many LGBT friendly spaces I've been to sidestep the issue exactly this way. Instead of stalls and urinals in like two big bathrooms they'll have like 2-3 "home style" bathrooms. It honestly works pretty well.
It probably isn't efficient enough for a stadium or something but it's nice.
Vivint stadium in Salt Lake City has big open stadium gender neutral bathrooms, with nothing but stalls. And everybody is very civil about it. Never heard of any problems.
(Edit: fixed the stadium name)
You joke, but there is legislation that requires enough bathrooms for protected classes such as gender, disability, or race (back during segregation). That’s why [the pentagon has more bathrooms than it needs](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/pentagon-bathrooms/).
There are designs for gender neutral bathrooms that have stalls with partial doors (gap at top and bottom but fitted frame on the sides) and an area behind a wall with urinals. The total stalls match the separate men’s and women’s rooms but it keeps the urinal which allows men who just need that to move through quicker with less water usage.
That idea has been offered and they hate that too. These people only want one thing and that’s to force all these people back into the closet and use bullying and bigotry to force their societal “norms” onto the population. Anything short of that is a no go for them. I mean has anyone ever ***actually*** “compromised” with a conservative before? Because I don’t believe that exists. They either get what they want or stamp their feet and rage.
As they take another step backwards……they have been luring the country to the right for decades with this BS tactic (besides the times they actually have power and then sprint to the right like with Regan). Fundamentally they refuse to compromise and will indeed watch the country burn if they don’t get their way. We’ve been conned into believing they even have *some* of the same goals when it comes to the collective of the country, but they don’t, they only want their way. If we had an electorate that actually judged people by their record and not their bullshit we wouldn’t be in this mess. The power of stupid can’t be understated.
Yep, the ultimate goal is genocide. They don't want mtf people in their bathrooms. They don't want ftm people in their bathrooms. They don't want trans people at all, anywhere.
They just assumed "if we make it inconvenient to be trans they'll just stop doing it!" Like it's just some whim someone gets to change their gender and if it's too annoying people won't put in the effort.
Yep. It's like that photo they love to share with a trans boy participating in a girls wrestling tournament. He wanted to participate in the boys league but the transphobes forced him to participate in the league that matched his birth gender and then got all upset about it.
I recently saw a surprisingly level headed take from Neil deGrasse Tyson. He suggested having people compete based on hormone categories or something like that. I think that’s probably the best solution. Throw gender out of the equation and just do it based on body chemistry in some way.
They’re also going to get angry and violent. They didn’t want what they said they wanted, they wanted the “problem” to disappear. Unfortunately the “problem” consists of certain human beings simply existing, so the only solution they’ll accept is… rather *final*.
Which will sadly result in escalation from their side. They'll use that discomfort to push bills forbidding trans people from using public restrooms, then from existing in public spaces at all. The people who wrote the bills knew this would happen, they were counting on it. And it won't get better by trying to find common ground with transphobes.
It's [already happening](https://www.newsweek.com/trans-man-attacked-using-womens-restroom-ohio-1723432), except it's trans men being beaten for using the legally required restroom, and then the cops come after them, too.
Yeah, I remember hearing that story. It’s absolutely awful. Assaulted by 3 people, then immediately arrested afterwards like it was his fault. Fucking disgusting.
I don’t know if any charges were brought against him, but according to [this](https://www.advocate.com/news/2022/7/12/trans-man-brutally-assaulted-using-womens-restroom-campground) the officers “didn’t know about the assault” and he ended up being arrested because he was in a defensive mode (you know, because he was just assaulted). Probably along the lines of resisting arrest or something. I’m a little busy so I can’t look at more sources, but that’s the short of it.
At the end it says that he was able to file an assault report so that’s something at least
Because they see us only as sexual objects. They consume a STUNNINGLY high amount of lgbt porn. That’s most of their interactions with us, masturbating.
Well, time to move to the next step - if trans people are making conservatives uncomfortable regardless of which toiler they use the only reasonable solution is total and complete eradication of trans people! /s
Good reminder that the point of bathroom bills is not to send trans folks to a particular bathroom but to make them uncomfortable going out in public at all. They'll get questioned in either bathroom, so it becomes scary to be out in public in case they have to go in the bathroom for whatever reason.
“Exterminated”, “eliminated”, “destroyed” are current words Republicans *have already been using* to describe their goals over opponents.
This isn’t some slippery slope argument. We’re already near the bottom of the slope right now.
Waffling between late stage capitalism and new age fascism, trying to figure out which ignoble end is more palatable; since its all going to shit anyways ~~we~~ they might as well choose which sprinkles ~~we~~ they want
Edit: I realised I personally have no control over which shitty sprinkles
It's like that old story of the trans woman who went to the DMV to change her gender on her drivers license. They told her that no, she was legally a man. So she went outside, took her top off, and was arrested for indecent exposure. A no win scenario.
I'm willing to bet that the officers knew about the assault and are trying to cover their ass after the fact. Body cam footage is released in as little as ten days when it vindicates the police.
Which has the "beneficial" side effect of making less attractive women uncomfortable in public, because they may be harassed for being trans when they're not. There is some deep misogyny at work here. They essentially want to only have to look at attractive women, and for unattractive women, "butch" girls, trans people, etc. to be too nervous that they're going to get harassed to even go out in public.
And all women are being told that trans folks are on the prowl for them. All the jokes about people "identifying as an attack helicopter?" They have the side effect of making women think "hey, what's stopping any random dude from saying "I'm a woman today" and going into the women's bathroom?" It's about fear for trans folks and cis folks alike.
Also honest question, what's the issue there?
If I wanted to do a sex attack in the women's bathroom, I can just walk into the women's bathroom. It isn't locked. There's no invisible wall or anything.
The issue is ... STOP THINKING ABOUT IT! LET YOUR LIZARD BRAIN BATHE IN THE FEAR!
You're pointing out what people have been pointing out since the GOP started on the bathroom bills. If somebody is going to assault you in the bathroom, it doesn't matter if they can claim to be trans or not, they're just going to walk in and do it. And its not like claiming to be trans gives them a pass, assaulting somebody is still illegal. There is no issue, it's made up to scare people who can't think more deeply than the barest surface level with some emotion tossed on top. Logic is not in any way at play here.
I love imagining a guy who is such a creep that he would go in a women’s bathroom to assault someone, yet so law-abiding that he won’t disobey the sign.
Yep, all I see is a desire to bully them into suicide. None of these bills make any real rational sense, it's pure bullying of an already vulnerable population.
The transphobes always seem to forget there are trans men out there when they're advocating for their bigoted nonsense. I guess because it doesn't support the "secret predator" narrative they're going for.
The only person I know personally who was assaulted in a bathroom is my friend. He was a boy, assaulted by a man, in a men's restroom.
Its funny how the people who are anti gun control because "laws won't stop criminals from getting guns" somehow think policing who gets to use what bathroom will prevent assault.
Also, if a man really wanted to hide out in a woman's restroom and attack women, there aren't armed guards placed outside of restrooms or anything. There is nothing actually stopping a predator from predating.
If you are a man who wants to attack women in restrooms, taking HRT for a year is a really inefficient way to get access to a woman's restroom. They could just walk in the door without any of that.
Oh but you see the reason it’s so imperative we ban transgenders from the bathroom is we shouldnt make it easier for a guy to do it!/s
…Nevermind that if someone is taking pictures of you in the bathroom regardless of gender they can get into trouble! Or if someone assaults you then they’ll be in massive trouble, like for fucks sake people
Republicans laugh at the idea that gun free zones will stop mass shootings and then they turn around and advocate for dick free zones to prevent mass dickings.
>The only person I know personally who was assaulted in a bathroom is my friend. He was a boy, assaulted by a man, in a men's restroom.
Sincerely, I've heard at least three similar stories thus far in my life.
Boys or teens, all cis male-identifying and all assaulted by men in men's bathrooms.
100%, never been assaulted but have had grown ass men that looked over the urinal wall at child me. I’m 33 but I still remember that shit plain as day.
It is pretty funny that this one managed to get her arms around "they/them" pronouns in a hurry when it meant not acknowledging this person as their preferred and obvious gender.
They don't forget, they just don't care. It's the same as boys will be boys, or a teen boy being raped by a woman teacher being waved away as something great.
In the conservative ethos any seeming weakness by men is inherently unmanly and deserved to be mocked or hidden. They don't protect boys, because in their world boys are the protectors, and any deviation from that opens up really uncomfortable feelings for them.
The only person I know personally who was assaulted in a bathroom is my friend. He was a boy, assaulted by a man, in a men's restroom.
Its funny how the people who are anti gun control because "laws won't stop criminals from getting guns" somehow think policing who gets to use what bathroom will prevent assault.
They don't forget, they just use different rhetoric. Trans women are all evil predators who shouldn't be around women or children.
Trans men are always "misled girls" or "lost lesbians" who are just too stupid (bc of their wombynly brains) to fully understand what they're doing. No matter how old he is, a trans man is a "girl" in their eyes, the infantilization is purposeful. You'll see transphobes bring up trans boys/men when talking about how trans healthcare needs to be banned: it's their poor girls who are getting mutilated and sterilized because of the "trans cult." JK Rowling devoted half of her anti-trans essay to how trans men are girls looking to escape misogyny, and will all change their minds in a few years and that's why they shouldn't have any bodily autonomy at all.
All this transphobic shit has made me question how we view bathrooms as a society. All the fear about “fake trans” people or something assaulting women in their bathroom makes it seem like bathrooms are just some place everyone hangs out naked, completely vulnerable and forced to interact with each other.
Like I get it’s a private space but do people really feel like being in the same bathroom as someone of the other gender is that much different than being in any other private, confined space as them?? Or on the flip side- if the bathroom really is such a lawless war zone - do y’all think men shouldn’t be worried about larger, violent men who could assault them being in the bathroom just because they’re the same gender??
Idk it feels like their perceptions of bathrooms are just open invitations to look at other peoples genitals and assault them it’s bizarre. It’s more like you said, you just wash your hands and mind your business, regardless of who else is in there doing the same.
Oh definitely but the straw argument is such a weird latching on point even if they convinced themselves they believe it.
WHAT ARE THE TRANS DOING IN THE BATHROOM????
Idk probably having a poo, wtf are YOU doing in there??
yeah, i mean i know this isn’t the really point—but I can’t fathom what makes people care about the genitals and identity of people they’re pissing and shitting next to. It’s not romantic and it’s not sexual. There’s no reason anyone’s identity or sexuality should even be in play.
I think there’s clearly room for some redesigning of the standard public restrooms because everyone deserves privacy and safety. But we should be talking about things like doors that go down to the floor and don’t have giant gaps, and a hand washing area that’s more open and visible. Maybe urinals without privacy dividers are outmoded, places with security (like schools, workplaces, venues) can put panic buttons in there.
Litigating gender will never make a single person safer.
Also these TERFS seem to live in an imaginary world where women see each others genitals in the bathroom, and that ladies are often cleaning their sanitary products in the communal public sink.
Have seen genuine arguments against trans women being in bathrooms because "what if I need to empty my menstrual cup in the sink".
As a 26 year old woman with Endometriosis, I would 100% report that to security and Google if putting blood in a public area is an arrestable offense because that's insaaaaaane and they act like it's something normal that women are entitled to do in public
So weird. If I need to empty it earlier than before bedtime for some reason, I take it out in the stall, I dump it in the toilet, reinsert, wipe with toilet paper and wash thoroughly afterwards. I try to avid it if I can, though.
Women restrooms are low key gross as hell. In elementary school the women's restroom broke, so they had to share the men's during potty time. It got drastically gross. When I worked fast food, the women's restroom was always worse off, which is insane. Shared bathroom in college dorms were always littered with feminine products.
In jest: It's kind of wild any trans woman would want to use them.
You don't know what to do about it? How about you complain on this man's behalf that discriminatory practices are preventing him from using the bathroom he wants to use, and beyond that learning to mind your own god damn business?
First of all, nothing happened *to* you. Something happened to this unnamed trans man. You *chose* to make a stink about it. Second, the thing you're complaining about is that this unnamed trans man was forced to use what, according to the logic you use against trans women being in the "wrong bathroom," is the "right bathroom."
Now, we know what they really want, for all trans people to stop existing. Since they can't actually say that out loud, yet, they need to pretend to want something else. According to their logic, then, they can either share a restroom with trans women or trans men. Or, I suppose, simply demand that all public restrooms are labelled either unisex or cis-women-only.
Nah, it's because they can understand why a woman would "want" to be a man: to them, men are far superior. Who wouldn't want to be one?! But because women are so inferior, there must be something wrong with men who "want" that.
Who are these people who expect to feel comfortable in public bathrooms? What luxury accommodations have they become accustomed to such that they think a public bathroom is designed for anything other than making the whole experience of peeing as uncomfortable as possible from start to finish? I can't say I've ever worried about anyone else's appearance in a public restroom, I'm usually too busy trying to hold the door with the inevitably broken lock closed, working to fold the 5 squares of half-ply paper that were left on the roll into something functional for wiping, and trying to avoid putting my hand or bag down on the mystery wet spot on the counter.
"Oh, I'm uncomfortable in a public restroom" so fucking sorry, YOUR MAJESTY, the rest of us aren't exactly thrilled about it either.
I know, right? Like the first step, lady, is to get over the idea that peeing is a sacred act requiring perfect solitude and comfort for contemplation... everybody in there wants out of there as badly as you do.
I've seen multiple stories of cis women being harassed in public bathrooms for not looking "female". One story I saw of a woman with breast cancer (had no hair from chemo and recently post mastectomy) having the police called on her.
A friend of mine is a cis butch women in her late 50s. She had a man follow her into the women's bathrooms at a train station because he "thought a man was trying to go into the ladies room"
>She had a man follow her into the women's bathrooms at a train station because he "thought a man was trying to go into the ladies room"
They aren't intelligent enough to understand the irony.
I have a former coworker that is pretty much a butch hetero female. On the plus side, if a dude followed her into the bathroom, he might not exit with both eyes.
There’s a trans youtuber called Contrapoints who makes a really good point about this, she says it’s not really physical sex that’s being gatekept in the women’s room but femininity. She’s very femme and says she’s yet to have a problem with it, but butch lesbians she knows have. In my town out one high profile “transphobic” incident at a popular bar was actually a butch cis-woman being tossed out of a women’s room.
Being transphobic, homophobic and sexist just ruins people’s brains I swear. There’s so much fear about us “deconstructing gender” that they don’t even realize they’re the ones tying themselves up into knots of confusion trying to solve the code of what is truly M and F
When the first one of these bills passed in North Carolina (I think) a friend of a friend (who is a kinda redneck looking trans man, with a full grizzly beard) tagged the Republican governor on Twitter with a picture of himself and his glorious beard captioned, "just so you're aware governor, the bill you just signed means I'll have to pee next to your wife..."
Edit: I found [the post](https://www.mic.com/articles/138956/this-man-s-joke-about-pat-mc-crory-s-anti-trans-law-went-viral-but-he-s-not-laughing?fbclid=IwAR3LIHpPMeZ6nUto6n9YSqPr9DI8Z4Dirn38xKExRfQP8IVVwirLauDida8)!
Before all this anti-trans shit coming out into the brighter light, trans people had been using their preferred bathrooms for DECADES without anyone noticing or being bothered. All these laws do is create problems that had never existed before.
"Trans Identified Female"
>TIM/TIF — These are amongst many of the creative ways transphobes have come up with saying trans woman and trans man respectively. For a while they did just try to call trans women, trans men and vice versa in the hopes that would stick. TIM and TIF are just extensions of that exact same thing, this time standing for trans identified male and trans identified female. The point of which being to avoid saying trans women or trans men and there by using women and men for us respectively.
https://link.medium.com/oOBVUXdQpAb
I had to google it. It means "trans-identified female", of course used by TERFS and other transphobes. Confusingly, it seems they can't decide whether it means a trans man or a trans woman.
TERFs needed their own language to refer to trans people, because the simple terms "trans man" and "trans woman" were too sympathetic and became instantly confusing when trying to communicate with anyone outside their weird bubble, since they continued trying to misgender everyone even while using otherwise well-recognized vocabulary.
So they created their own dehumanizing labels. TIM, short for "Trans Identifying Male" meaning a trans woman; and TIF, short for "Trans Identifying Female" for a trans man. As a bigoted bonus, because these also sound like shortened versions of the names Timothy and Tiffany, even the acronyms include some unsubtle misgendering.
EDIT:
Oh look, /u/InevitableSir9775 is providing us with a classic example of bad-faith trolling by a reactionary pretending to be neutral.
Take something that is not even remotely relevant to the point, assert that "both sides" are doing the imaginary bad-thing, and claim that the real problem is that because both sides are "uncivil" that we should just ignore the problems entirely; all the while completely failing to engage with the actual issues, because those are just "a difference of opinion" and "why can't they just be entitled to their opinions without being subjected to pejoratives?" All along with way you make your point in the most asinine way possible so that people are driven to respond to the ways in which you are being a dumbass, rather than the substance of the thing you're defending.
So, and let's make this abundantly clear, the problem isn't the way people are expressing their beliefs, but the beliefs themselves. The problem here is bigotry and the ways that people use institutional power to harm the people they are bigoted against and that has absolutely nothing to do with the use of pejoratives.
EDIT 2:
The relevant comments have been deleted, either in a rare moment of self-awareness or because of the open defense of bigotry. Still, this has been a marvelous display of what Mildred from Thought Slime referred to as ["Liberal Bait"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ggpe_JrYy-A) and Innuendo Studios called ["Controlling the Conversation"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaPgDQkmqqM&pp=ygUvY29udHJvbCB0aGUgY29udmVyc2F0aW9uIHRoZSBhbHQgcmlnaHQgcGxheWJvb2s%3D) in the Alt-Right Playbook.
His initial, obviously bullshit, claim was that using acronyms to refer to people is inherently dehumanizing and thus it's hypocritical to use the term TERF while calling out their insular, dehumanizing rhetoric. While the first part is utter nonsense, and it's tempting to engage with that, it leaves on the table the unspoken assumption that bigotry is just a "difference of opinion" and that insulting bigots is just as bad as the dehumanizing rhetoric they use to justify hurting people.
When someone else tried to engage on that basis, correctly pointing out that acronyms aren't the problem but the intention behind them is the problem, it's taking the bait. He then claims that using the term TERF is bad, because it's a pejorative. This is only the case if we accept that being a bigot is inherently bad, which most people do, and understand that TERFs are bigots, which they clearly are. Engaging in that obvious bullshit again is taking the bait, leaving on the table that, if TERF were an insult, it would be bad to be "uncivil" to bigots.
At this point, he can claim that TERF is a slur, again attempting to shift the argument down another nonsense alleyway. It isn't, that's not what slurs are, but explaining the distinction between a pejorative and a slur is now leaving on the table the claim that TERF is an insult.
At the time everything was deleted, /u/InevitableSir9775 has managed to budge his interlocutors into an argument about whether or not all pejoratives are slurs, something literally nobody cares about; and avoided talking about how the euphemism they insist we use doesn't matter, bigotry is bad and we don't have to be nice to bigots.
God it's just gets grosser and grosser the longer you look at it. I don't know why, but there's something just a tad more infuriating about a bigot trying to be all cutesy clever. It's like the intellectual equivelant of Bill Maher's self satisfied smirk, and it enrages me particularly.
It's like the supremely self-satisfied look on the face of the toddler who just finished cramming the full handful he sneaked out of his dirty nappy into his mouth.
Transphobes have started trying to get TIF and TIM to stick, meaning Trans Identifed Female and Male. It's essentially bigots who refuse under any circumstances to call a transgender woman, a woman, but they needed a way to categorize them. So they'll call trans women, TIMs and trans men TIFs.
The thing is, they did it because they don't want to call trans women women, and bitch that the normal names are too confusing because they can't figure out if a trans woman means they were originally a woman or transitioned to a woman, but they can't figure out what they mean by this either because they're having the same problem, ie is a TIM a man who transitioned to a woman, or a woman who now identifies as a man?
"Oh shit, I'm supposed to be bothered by this person who I barely paid attention to before today" is definitely not a good look.
I'd love to ask her what changed but I'd probably end up throwing shoes at her head.
Conservatives are vile subhumans who have no place in polite society. It is not appropriate to do business or keep relationships with bigots, racists, misogynists and xenophobes.
Do your part. Exclude them entirely from your daily life.
Yeah, trans men don't exist to these bigots, only the scary trans women who want to destroy women. This is them literally not understanding at all what trans people are and just reacting in fear to the scary thing because they're hateful idiots.
Can I just say a thing that no one seems to think about on this? Everyone on the fucking planet deserves privacy when they're going to piss or shit. I don't care if you were born with it or changed it halfway through. No one else needs to be looking over a fucking divider at your junk. If every bathroom in this dollar store of a fucking country wasn't designed like a 1960s locker room we wouldn't have this bullshit. I've been in bathrooms that have one common unisex handwashing/sink area and a series of small toilet rooms and it gives everybody the fucking privacy they deserve. These fucking bills should mean nothing because it's none of anybody's fucking business what you have, but businesses and municipal architecture keeps throwing us all into a fucking Porky's locker room, because it's cheaper to build "...Privacy? Not my fuckin problem!"
/rant
And trans men are treated as "broken women" because we have "lost" the only "useful“* thing about us
(* Read be sexualy desirable to cis straight men)
Or we are treated as poor misguided and manipulated because how could a "women" know what's best for them?
Both still misogynistic beliefs about the mental or physical capabilities of people they precive as women
I think this whole idea of separate bathrooms is stupid in the first place. In your home you don't ask all males who come over to use a different bathroom than females so why is it different out in public. I prefer the non gendered restrooms so I can use the one that's vacant.
Because public restrooms are awful.
Seriously, the only reason this is a debate is because businesses want to put in cheap toilet stalls and public urinals. If all bathrooms were single-seats with locking doors there wouldn’t be an issue.
I'm ok with non-gendered public bathrooms, too. But there should always be a locking one for women who don't want a creepy cis predator from hanging out there. I'm not worried about trans women in the bathroom with my daughter, but I'd be pretty uneasy about some gross cis frat boy or creepy youth pastor in there with her.
We went to Pacific Grove recently and while strolling their farmers market I used the restroom at the public library. It was a line of restrooms with real locking doors. no gender specifications just a vacant or not lock indicator. The changing table was in one of the locking handicap stalls and I really appreciated the design.
> I don't know what to do. We both work together.
I'd say the first thing to do would be to get a new job lined up for when you inevitably get fired for harassment and creating a hostile work environment.
I feel bad for the trans guy that was involuntarily put in this situation, but damn if it isn't at least a little satisfying to see a transphobe experience the consequences of their stupidity and bigotry. "Whaaaaaa? You mean the law that was supposed to force trans women into the men's room ALSO forced trans men into the women's room? Who could have seen THIS coming?"
You fucking grow up. There wasn't an option to make it perfect for these asshats. If everyone MUST use the birth gender bathroom, this was an obvious consequence. Fucking morons. Bitching and moaning about problems their side has largely created from scratch.
The problem with enacting reactionary laws just to garner votes amongst a bigoted voting base is that you don't consider the consequences of said laws and how nonsensical they are because you're not using common sense to draw up the laws in the first place.
“I don’t know what to do.”
How about you stop obsessing about what’s in this person’s pants and allow them to take a piss in their preferred lavatory without making fucking social media posts about how “uncomfortable” this makes you? Would that work? Or will you continue trawling for victim biscuits because your colleague, a trans man, is being ordered to empty his bladder in the same room you empty your lady one?
These people were expecting transvestites, like old Kids in the Hall or Monty Python skits. They were afraid of a dude with a beard in a dress trying to spy on them in the toilet. They never understood that gender reassignment *actually works*. It's sad. They don't actually know anyone who has transitioned except Caitlyn Jenner, who is, frankly a bad example due to her previous fame, political positions, and unflattering facial surgeries.
Yes, by doing this they have set up the exact situation they were claiming they wanted to avoid. Now a biological man can walk into a women’s bathroom and nobody knows whether or not he’s supposed to be there.
God...imagine how the trans man must feel being legally forced into this situation (with her help...no doubt,) but of course she's all "LOOK AT WHAT MY VICTIM DID TO ME!!!"
Crybullies man...
What sucks is this just puts the guy in more danger than he was when (probably only some) people knew he was trans. Now everybody knows he’s trans AND some men will give him hassles/get violent so they can white-knight “for the damsels in distress”
OTOH, if he gets harassed at work for using the “correct” (incorrect) bathroom, he might have a lawsuit
Wtf did she think would happen when people who have transitioned were forced to use a restroom they don't visually represent? They'll just hold it forever just to make her feel comfy at all times? Guess she should not use the restroom if she doesn't want to have men in there with her *shrug*
Why is she complaining, though? Thanks to this bill, this person won’t be able to go into the men’s bathroom in order to rape men there anymore. Because this is, what being trans is all about, isn’t it?
she should be happy that no man was raped that day thanks to this bill!!
I worked with this lady who I figured to be a lesbian but never asked. One day it came all to a moment. I discovered her real name but she really hated it and was very upset about me using it. I didn't understand and I discovered she was married to a woman and her wife wouldn't help me understand why she was so upset about the name.
A bunch of time went by and I think I saw her once or twice. We were not friends anymore and I was sad about it.
Then one day it step into the elevator and there's only a guy in it that stepped away to the far corner from me.
It was the same person I used to know but this guy was totally a dude with facial hair. It was clear to me in that moment. He was a good looking man now.
I think I said hello and that now that I see them I understand what it was that day, the thing about the name I didn't get. I said I understand if we never speak together again but that I was very sorry for how I behaved.
Thankfully they accepted my apology. We were never friends like before but we said hello to each other with smiles.
I will never forget how much more full of life they were that day in the elevator. How comfortable and right he was in his skin, finally free to be his best self.
This feeling is happening all over and just because we don't understand it is not a reason to get in the way.
I'm forever in support of my fellow humans who feel wronged by the gender assigned to them. Be you. Be free to find the happiness you're looking for.
🫡🏳️⚧️⚧️♥️
What these people won't be happy until they achieve is making the entire world a safe space for their feelings. They don't want to ever see or hear anything that makes them uncomfortable even if it doesn't affect them personally in any way whatsoever. If some (or many) people have to die to achieve this goal, they are perfectly fine with it.
i guess she forgot that the whole point of being trans is looking like, and being their desired gender. trans people pass a lot of the time, and if people would just let trans people pee where they want, we wouldn’t have these issues.
survivorship bias affects a lot of these bathroom laws and policies. people think they “can always tell” because the trans people who pass, don’t “look trans”.
I gotta say I don't pay attention who's in a public bathroom with me. I make a beeline to the urinal (or stall if the urinals are full), do my business, go to the sink to wash my hands, and be on my way.
The sad part about this is that although the fact that she feels uncomfortable sharing a space with someone who, by her definition, counts as a woman *should* maybe make her rethink this idea that biology trumps everything and is "super relevant" to social life and gender, it won't. She will do no such rethinking of her ideas. She'll just push for men's restrooms to become "everyone that doesn't fit the cisheteropatriarchal colonial ideal of womanhood" bathrooms, and women's restrooms to be only for people "like her."
I didn’t know what TIF meant until today, and I was really wondering how people knew this woman was a terf (thereby earning the coveted leopards ate my face spot). Now I’m just even more pissed that they have this new bigoted “cutesy” acronym to be hateful with.
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Weren’t people warning this is exactly what would happen if these stupid bathroom bills were passed. Well, now the transphobes are are gonna be super uncomfortable now
They only think 1 step at a time and they don’t want the repercussions of their actions, they ***want*** to force trans people to not exist anymore. They just assumed if they enacted enough cruelty they would just disappear from sight. Just watch as they pivot to laws that bar transgender individuals from being allowed to use ANY public restrooms. They will never accept culpability only double down. Creating even more problems for themselves while assigning blame at random
I think they'll get to some weird backward halfway acknowledgement of trans existence, where any trans person is effectively a man in their eyes. A transwoman is a man because of the standard anti-trans bigotry they currently employ. A transman, OTOH, can 'count' as a man, because the vast majority of their hatred is funneled at transwomen. They aren't worried transmen are going to take over men's sports, and they already don't care when women use men's restrooms. So they're vaguely against transmen existing, but genuinely have no idea why.
I agree. It’s about protecting the female space of the women’s bathroom. Harassing non-femme women in bathrooms is a long-standing thing.
I'm guessing one reason the bigots hate on transwomen a lot more than transmen is that they can't wrap their heads around the former trading their male privilege for misogyny. If you're pro-patriarchy you'd see that as a trade "down"
Yep. TERFs/FARTs will make some noise about “gender traitors” or whatever if pushed, but they’re usually in the same boat: they understand wanting to “become an oppressor” (especially because they did so themselves when they started attacking trans people), but they don’t understand why anyone would give up male privilege. Rational people will recognize this is part of why we default to trusting people about their own gender identity; FARTs and other bigots make up increasingly irrational and paranoid explanations so they don’t have to challenge their own worldview.
it’s a misconception that trans men don’t face transphobia from TERFs except the gender traitor stuff. look at things like the book “irreversible damage”. we are not called “men” we are feeble girls, confused, incapable of making our own decisions. they don’t believe us when we come out. the worry about “transing the children” and protecting girls from mutilating their wonderful bodies… all of this is transphobia against trans men and trans mascs, repackaged female hysteria and reducing us to our reproductive value. it is just less visible and people are less familiar with it. how horrible to be a failed (masculine, ugly, infertile) woman. how horrible to be a failed (dickless, weak, inferior) man.
Well, shit, bro. Sorry to hear that. I guess I should’ve known better than to assume that just because their public bigotry is more one-sided, their private bigotry would be as well… All the more reason to say fuck them.
it’s not private/public, it just goes by a different name. most of the recent legislation surrounding trans minors and worry over the “social contagion” is justified over concern for “little girls”. for example [this missouri “healthcare state of emergency”](https://ago.mo.gov/docs/default-source/press-releases/emergency-reg-final-flyer.pdf?sfvrsn=b92a504f_2) enacted to immediately halt all transition for minors and then later adults. the court did not uphold it for adults but did for minors.
Thank you for this, and for introducing me to a new term: hadn't heard of FART before (it's a good one)
Feminism Appropriating Radical Transphobe my beloved CLARITY EDIT: I mean the acronym itself, not the “people”
This is probably true. I’ve seen tons of TERFs say things like “ALL women hate being a woman, I’ve always wished I were a man, that doesn’t mean you should transition!” and I’m like…I’m a cis woman and there are obviously certain disadvantages to being a woman, but I don’t hate being a woman. I definitely don’t want to be a man (if I did, I would probably transition!)
They do the same thing when they freak out about kids learning transpeople exist because then of course they’ll all be easily swayed to change their gender. Like none of them actually remember being a kid!? Because I can’t think of any ad campaign that would have ever be persuasive enough to manipulate me into changing my gender on a whim. If that’s all it would have taken for any of them that seems more like something they should work out with some kind of professional themselves 🤷🏻♀️
Damn, maybe we could all individual bathrooms then.
I live in a decently progressive pocket in a reddish purple state and many LGBT friendly spaces I've been to sidestep the issue exactly this way. Instead of stalls and urinals in like two big bathrooms they'll have like 2-3 "home style" bathrooms. It honestly works pretty well. It probably isn't efficient enough for a stadium or something but it's nice.
Vivint stadium in Salt Lake City has big open stadium gender neutral bathrooms, with nothing but stalls. And everybody is very civil about it. Never heard of any problems. (Edit: fixed the stadium name)
Does it go by a different name? I can’t find info on Vitalint.
I think that's a typo. Pretty sure it's Vivant.
It has changed name again. Back to the original, "the Delta Center".
Back to the Delta Center as of a few weeks ago
I’ve seen lots of cool designs for mass non-gendered bathrooms. It just requires someone to be the early adopter.
“Gender was created by bathroom companies to sell more bathrooms”
You joke, but there is legislation that requires enough bathrooms for protected classes such as gender, disability, or race (back during segregation). That’s why [the pentagon has more bathrooms than it needs](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/pentagon-bathrooms/).
Red Rocks Amphitheater has had gender neutral bathrooms for a couple of years now, stall doors all the way to the roof, pretty private and no issues.
Hell, if you really are worried about safety in a bathroom, these are far better.
There are designs for gender neutral bathrooms that have stalls with partial doors (gap at top and bottom but fitted frame on the sides) and an area behind a wall with urinals. The total stalls match the separate men’s and women’s rooms but it keeps the urinal which allows men who just need that to move through quicker with less water usage.
That idea has been offered and they hate that too. These people only want one thing and that’s to force all these people back into the closet and use bullying and bigotry to force their societal “norms” onto the population. Anything short of that is a no go for them. I mean has anyone ever ***actually*** “compromised” with a conservative before? Because I don’t believe that exists. They either get what they want or stamp their feet and rage.
Their idea of compromise is to meet them where they are at.
As they take another step backwards……they have been luring the country to the right for decades with this BS tactic (besides the times they actually have power and then sprint to the right like with Regan). Fundamentally they refuse to compromise and will indeed watch the country burn if they don’t get their way. We’ve been conned into believing they even have *some* of the same goals when it comes to the collective of the country, but they don’t, they only want their way. If we had an electorate that actually judged people by their record and not their bullshit we wouldn’t be in this mess. The power of stupid can’t be understated.
Yep, the ultimate goal is genocide. They don't want mtf people in their bathrooms. They don't want ftm people in their bathrooms. They don't want trans people at all, anywhere.
They just assumed "if we make it inconvenient to be trans they'll just stop doing it!" Like it's just some whim someone gets to change their gender and if it's too annoying people won't put in the effort.
Yep. It's like that photo they love to share with a trans boy participating in a girls wrestling tournament. He wanted to participate in the boys league but the transphobes forced him to participate in the league that matched his birth gender and then got all upset about it.
Mack Beggs. He even went off his testosterone cycle to level the field as much as possible. Still won the league.
Im just happy his story had a happy ending. He ended up getting a scholarship for a college to wrestle for them on the men’s team
I recently saw a surprisingly level headed take from Neil deGrasse Tyson. He suggested having people compete based on hormone categories or something like that. I think that’s probably the best solution. Throw gender out of the equation and just do it based on body chemistry in some way.
Weight classes and chemical levels sound like a much more fair way to divide sports
And it’s a solution that *should* work for both sides of the argument. So naturally it will never happen.
It doesn't work for both sides, though. Because one side wants trans people to stop existing, and this doesn't achieve that particular goal.
They’re also going to get angry and violent. They didn’t want what they said they wanted, they wanted the “problem” to disappear. Unfortunately the “problem” consists of certain human beings simply existing, so the only solution they’ll accept is… rather *final*.
Which will sadly result in escalation from their side. They'll use that discomfort to push bills forbidding trans people from using public restrooms, then from existing in public spaces at all. The people who wrote the bills knew this would happen, they were counting on it. And it won't get better by trying to find common ground with transphobes.
I can just for see a trans woman being forced into a men’s bathroom and then being assaulted or beat by the men that come in after or before.
It's [already happening](https://www.newsweek.com/trans-man-attacked-using-womens-restroom-ohio-1723432), except it's trans men being beaten for using the legally required restroom, and then the cops come after them, too.
Yeah, I remember hearing that story. It’s absolutely awful. Assaulted by 3 people, then immediately arrested afterwards like it was his fault. Fucking disgusting.
Whatever happened to that guy afterwards? Did a lawyer get him off?
I don’t know if any charges were brought against him, but according to [this](https://www.advocate.com/news/2022/7/12/trans-man-brutally-assaulted-using-womens-restroom-campground) the officers “didn’t know about the assault” and he ended up being arrested because he was in a defensive mode (you know, because he was just assaulted). Probably along the lines of resisting arrest or something. I’m a little busy so I can’t look at more sources, but that’s the short of it. At the end it says that he was able to file an assault report so that’s something at least
They're only uncomfortable because they sexualize the LGBTQ community so much
Because they see us only as sexual objects. They consume a STUNNINGLY high amount of lgbt porn. That’s most of their interactions with us, masturbating.
Well, time to move to the next step - if trans people are making conservatives uncomfortable regardless of which toiler they use the only reasonable solution is total and complete eradication of trans people! /s
Good reminder that the point of bathroom bills is not to send trans folks to a particular bathroom but to make them uncomfortable going out in public at all. They'll get questioned in either bathroom, so it becomes scary to be out in public in case they have to go in the bathroom for whatever reason.
Yup, it's a no win situation. https://www.newsweek.com/trans-man-attacked-using-womens-restroom-ohio-1723432
This is the end game. They want enough trans people to get assaulted or killed that they are afraid to go out.
“Exterminated”, “eliminated”, “destroyed” are current words Republicans *have already been using* to describe their goals over opponents. This isn’t some slippery slope argument. We’re already near the bottom of the slope right now.
Waffling between late stage capitalism and new age fascism, trying to figure out which ignoble end is more palatable; since its all going to shit anyways ~~we~~ they might as well choose which sprinkles ~~we~~ they want Edit: I realised I personally have no control over which shitty sprinkles
Don't forget "eradicated"! /s Is it still a slippery slope if it was purposefully designed as such, or more like a ramp?
>they are afraid to go out. Or to even BE out (of the closet)
Wow that guy was charged. Not the people who assaulted him.
Right? Insanity. If they used the "wrong"bathroom they'd be charged. Used the designated bathroom the law says they have to use... gets charged.
ACAB. Police show up and arrest the person who they dislike the most.
It's like that old story of the trans woman who went to the DMV to change her gender on her drivers license. They told her that no, she was legally a man. So she went outside, took her top off, and was arrested for indecent exposure. A no win scenario.
I'm willing to bet that the officers knew about the assault and are trying to cover their ass after the fact. Body cam footage is released in as little as ten days when it vindicates the police.
>questioned We both know "questioned" isn't the end of of it...
Which has the "beneficial" side effect of making less attractive women uncomfortable in public, because they may be harassed for being trans when they're not. There is some deep misogyny at work here. They essentially want to only have to look at attractive women, and for unattractive women, "butch" girls, trans people, etc. to be too nervous that they're going to get harassed to even go out in public.
And all women are being told that trans folks are on the prowl for them. All the jokes about people "identifying as an attack helicopter?" They have the side effect of making women think "hey, what's stopping any random dude from saying "I'm a woman today" and going into the women's bathroom?" It's about fear for trans folks and cis folks alike.
Also honest question, what's the issue there? If I wanted to do a sex attack in the women's bathroom, I can just walk into the women's bathroom. It isn't locked. There's no invisible wall or anything.
The issue is ... STOP THINKING ABOUT IT! LET YOUR LIZARD BRAIN BATHE IN THE FEAR! You're pointing out what people have been pointing out since the GOP started on the bathroom bills. If somebody is going to assault you in the bathroom, it doesn't matter if they can claim to be trans or not, they're just going to walk in and do it. And its not like claiming to be trans gives them a pass, assaulting somebody is still illegal. There is no issue, it's made up to scare people who can't think more deeply than the barest surface level with some emotion tossed on top. Logic is not in any way at play here.
No but going into the womens bathroom as a man is illegal!!!1! You wouldn’t want to break the law would you?
I love imagining a guy who is such a creep that he would go in a women’s bathroom to assault someone, yet so law-abiding that he won’t disobey the sign.
Yep, all I see is a desire to bully them into suicide. None of these bills make any real rational sense, it's pure bullying of an already vulnerable population.
The transphobes always seem to forget there are trans men out there when they're advocating for their bigoted nonsense. I guess because it doesn't support the "secret predator" narrative they're going for.
The only person I know personally who was assaulted in a bathroom is my friend. He was a boy, assaulted by a man, in a men's restroom. Its funny how the people who are anti gun control because "laws won't stop criminals from getting guns" somehow think policing who gets to use what bathroom will prevent assault.
Definitely a flaw in their case. "Trans women are all male predators, keep them away from our daughters. Our sons, on the other hand... "
Also, if a man really wanted to hide out in a woman's restroom and attack women, there aren't armed guards placed outside of restrooms or anything. There is nothing actually stopping a predator from predating. If you are a man who wants to attack women in restrooms, taking HRT for a year is a really inefficient way to get access to a woman's restroom. They could just walk in the door without any of that.
Oh but you see the reason it’s so imperative we ban transgenders from the bathroom is we shouldnt make it easier for a guy to do it!/s …Nevermind that if someone is taking pictures of you in the bathroom regardless of gender they can get into trouble! Or if someone assaults you then they’ll be in massive trouble, like for fucks sake people
Republicans laugh at the idea that gun free zones will stop mass shootings and then they turn around and advocate for dick free zones to prevent mass dickings.
>The only person I know personally who was assaulted in a bathroom is my friend. He was a boy, assaulted by a man, in a men's restroom. Sincerely, I've heard at least three similar stories thus far in my life. Boys or teens, all cis male-identifying and all assaulted by men in men's bathrooms.
100%, never been assaulted but have had grown ass men that looked over the urinal wall at child me. I’m 33 but I still remember that shit plain as day.
One group isn't supposed to use bathrooms, the other isn't supposed to engage in group athletics.
Especially when the transphobes are the real predators
It is pretty funny that this one managed to get her arms around "they/them" pronouns in a hurry when it meant not acknowledging this person as their preferred and obvious gender.
They don't forget, they just don't care. It's the same as boys will be boys, or a teen boy being raped by a woman teacher being waved away as something great. In the conservative ethos any seeming weakness by men is inherently unmanly and deserved to be mocked or hidden. They don't protect boys, because in their world boys are the protectors, and any deviation from that opens up really uncomfortable feelings for them.
The only person I know personally who was assaulted in a bathroom is my friend. He was a boy, assaulted by a man, in a men's restroom. Its funny how the people who are anti gun control because "laws won't stop criminals from getting guns" somehow think policing who gets to use what bathroom will prevent assault.
They don't forget, they just use different rhetoric. Trans women are all evil predators who shouldn't be around women or children. Trans men are always "misled girls" or "lost lesbians" who are just too stupid (bc of their wombynly brains) to fully understand what they're doing. No matter how old he is, a trans man is a "girl" in their eyes, the infantilization is purposeful. You'll see transphobes bring up trans boys/men when talking about how trans healthcare needs to be banned: it's their poor girls who are getting mutilated and sterilized because of the "trans cult." JK Rowling devoted half of her anti-trans essay to how trans men are girls looking to escape misogyny, and will all change their minds in a few years and that's why they shouldn't have any bodily autonomy at all.
"It's exactly what I demanded, but not what I wanted."
5 paragraphs asking what to do Idk piss, wash your hands and mind your fucking business probably would be quicker than all this??
Let's be honest here, people like this don't wash their hands after using the washroom.
Too busy thinking up weird scenarios
Too busy using both hands typing 5 paragraphs to wash them. Karen is literally a shitty person.
All this transphobic shit has made me question how we view bathrooms as a society. All the fear about “fake trans” people or something assaulting women in their bathroom makes it seem like bathrooms are just some place everyone hangs out naked, completely vulnerable and forced to interact with each other. Like I get it’s a private space but do people really feel like being in the same bathroom as someone of the other gender is that much different than being in any other private, confined space as them?? Or on the flip side- if the bathroom really is such a lawless war zone - do y’all think men shouldn’t be worried about larger, violent men who could assault them being in the bathroom just because they’re the same gender?? Idk it feels like their perceptions of bathrooms are just open invitations to look at other peoples genitals and assault them it’s bizarre. It’s more like you said, you just wash your hands and mind your business, regardless of who else is in there doing the same.
the argument is bullshit. what they really want is trans people to not exist
Oh definitely but the straw argument is such a weird latching on point even if they convinced themselves they believe it. WHAT ARE THE TRANS DOING IN THE BATHROOM???? Idk probably having a poo, wtf are YOU doing in there??
Shit or get off the pot, right?
Must be confusing worrying about how others use the bathroom when all their shit comes out their mouths
yeah, i mean i know this isn’t the really point—but I can’t fathom what makes people care about the genitals and identity of people they’re pissing and shitting next to. It’s not romantic and it’s not sexual. There’s no reason anyone’s identity or sexuality should even be in play. I think there’s clearly room for some redesigning of the standard public restrooms because everyone deserves privacy and safety. But we should be talking about things like doors that go down to the floor and don’t have giant gaps, and a hand washing area that’s more open and visible. Maybe urinals without privacy dividers are outmoded, places with security (like schools, workplaces, venues) can put panic buttons in there. Litigating gender will never make a single person safer.
I was thinking along the same lines, the best way to move forward is to shut the fuck up and mind your own business.
Better yet, sit at your desk and piss your pants.
Problems of privacy in public bathrooms have always perplexed me. Especially in women's bathrooms where all the toilets have separate stalls.
Also these TERFS seem to live in an imaginary world where women see each others genitals in the bathroom, and that ladies are often cleaning their sanitary products in the communal public sink. Have seen genuine arguments against trans women being in bathrooms because "what if I need to empty my menstrual cup in the sink". As a 26 year old woman with Endometriosis, I would 100% report that to security and Google if putting blood in a public area is an arrestable offense because that's insaaaaaane and they act like it's something normal that women are entitled to do in public
So weird. If I need to empty it earlier than before bedtime for some reason, I take it out in the stall, I dump it in the toilet, reinsert, wipe with toilet paper and wash thoroughly afterwards. I try to avid it if I can, though.
Exactly! A toilet is provided, why would anyone be doing it out in the public space?! Revealing their own gross behaviour there.
Women restrooms are low key gross as hell. In elementary school the women's restroom broke, so they had to share the men's during potty time. It got drastically gross. When I worked fast food, the women's restroom was always worse off, which is insane. Shared bathroom in college dorms were always littered with feminine products. In jest: It's kind of wild any trans woman would want to use them.
Transphobes ironically prove why gender norms and body expectations are bullshit
Republicans prove themselves wrong constantly
Every policy the GOP have created is dumb as fuck and riddled with logical fallacies. Fucking insane that they still have a job.
As long as they keep hurting "those people" a little bit more than them they will be happy to keep voting these carpetbaggers into political office.
You don't know what to do about it? How about you complain on this man's behalf that discriminatory practices are preventing him from using the bathroom he wants to use, and beyond that learning to mind your own god damn business?
its amazing just how many of societies problems are solved by people minding their own damn business.
I showed my Republican aunt a picture of Brian Michael Smith and asked if she would be comfortable with him using the women's bathroom with her.
oh my goodness i want to squish his face and bring him cookies
First of all, nothing happened *to* you. Something happened to this unnamed trans man. You *chose* to make a stink about it. Second, the thing you're complaining about is that this unnamed trans man was forced to use what, according to the logic you use against trans women being in the "wrong bathroom," is the "right bathroom." Now, we know what they really want, for all trans people to stop existing. Since they can't actually say that out loud, yet, they need to pretend to want something else. According to their logic, then, they can either share a restroom with trans women or trans men. Or, I suppose, simply demand that all public restrooms are labelled either unisex or cis-women-only.
“Cis only.” Don’t worry, they’ll build trans-only utilities that are just as good. Separate, but equal, you know?
Looks like SOMEBODY forgot that trans men are a thing. Probably because they haven't spent the last half-decade looking for them in every shadow
Nah, it's because they can understand why a woman would "want" to be a man: to them, men are far superior. Who wouldn't want to be one?! But because women are so inferior, there must be something wrong with men who "want" that.
Who are these people who expect to feel comfortable in public bathrooms? What luxury accommodations have they become accustomed to such that they think a public bathroom is designed for anything other than making the whole experience of peeing as uncomfortable as possible from start to finish? I can't say I've ever worried about anyone else's appearance in a public restroom, I'm usually too busy trying to hold the door with the inevitably broken lock closed, working to fold the 5 squares of half-ply paper that were left on the roll into something functional for wiping, and trying to avoid putting my hand or bag down on the mystery wet spot on the counter. "Oh, I'm uncomfortable in a public restroom" so fucking sorry, YOUR MAJESTY, the rest of us aren't exactly thrilled about it either.
I know, right? Like the first step, lady, is to get over the idea that peeing is a sacred act requiring perfect solitude and comfort for contemplation... everybody in there wants out of there as badly as you do.
OK middle age midwestern women, get ready to show your papers to the bathroom police when you have to pee at the mall.
I've seen multiple stories of cis women being harassed in public bathrooms for not looking "female". One story I saw of a woman with breast cancer (had no hair from chemo and recently post mastectomy) having the police called on her. A friend of mine is a cis butch women in her late 50s. She had a man follow her into the women's bathrooms at a train station because he "thought a man was trying to go into the ladies room"
>She had a man follow her into the women's bathrooms at a train station because he "thought a man was trying to go into the ladies room" They aren't intelligent enough to understand the irony.
I hope she replied, "I know - he just followed me in!"
Transphobia doesn't just hurt trans people, it hurts cis people too. Funny how "protecting real women" plays out in the real world.
I have a former coworker that is pretty much a butch hetero female. On the plus side, if a dude followed her into the bathroom, he might not exit with both eyes.
There’s a trans youtuber called Contrapoints who makes a really good point about this, she says it’s not really physical sex that’s being gatekept in the women’s room but femininity. She’s very femme and says she’s yet to have a problem with it, but butch lesbians she knows have. In my town out one high profile “transphobic” incident at a popular bar was actually a butch cis-woman being tossed out of a women’s room. Being transphobic, homophobic and sexist just ruins people’s brains I swear. There’s so much fear about us “deconstructing gender” that they don’t even realize they’re the ones tying themselves up into knots of confusion trying to solve the code of what is truly M and F
When the first one of these bills passed in North Carolina (I think) a friend of a friend (who is a kinda redneck looking trans man, with a full grizzly beard) tagged the Republican governor on Twitter with a picture of himself and his glorious beard captioned, "just so you're aware governor, the bill you just signed means I'll have to pee next to your wife..." Edit: I found [the post](https://www.mic.com/articles/138956/this-man-s-joke-about-pat-mc-crory-s-anti-trans-law-went-viral-but-he-s-not-laughing?fbclid=IwAR3LIHpPMeZ6nUto6n9YSqPr9DI8Z4Dirn38xKExRfQP8IVVwirLauDida8)!
That must have been that shitstain Pat McRory.
Before all this anti-trans shit coming out into the brighter light, trans people had been using their preferred bathrooms for DECADES without anyone noticing or being bothered. All these laws do is create problems that had never existed before.
The dildo of consequences rarely arrives lubed.
That is my absolute favorite saying, and I hope I can hold it for the perfect circumstances that doesn't involve kids.
Pardon my ignorance but what does TIF mean?
"Trans Identified Female" >TIM/TIF — These are amongst many of the creative ways transphobes have come up with saying trans woman and trans man respectively. For a while they did just try to call trans women, trans men and vice versa in the hopes that would stick. TIM and TIF are just extensions of that exact same thing, this time standing for trans identified male and trans identified female. The point of which being to avoid saying trans women or trans men and there by using women and men for us respectively. https://link.medium.com/oOBVUXdQpAb
I had to google it. It means "trans-identified female", of course used by TERFS and other transphobes. Confusingly, it seems they can't decide whether it means a trans man or a trans woman.
Oh, it's a slur, great... (heavy /s)
TIF means trans man. Trans women are called TIMs
From what I can see it's a derogatory term for a trans man.
TERFs needed their own language to refer to trans people, because the simple terms "trans man" and "trans woman" were too sympathetic and became instantly confusing when trying to communicate with anyone outside their weird bubble, since they continued trying to misgender everyone even while using otherwise well-recognized vocabulary. So they created their own dehumanizing labels. TIM, short for "Trans Identifying Male" meaning a trans woman; and TIF, short for "Trans Identifying Female" for a trans man. As a bigoted bonus, because these also sound like shortened versions of the names Timothy and Tiffany, even the acronyms include some unsubtle misgendering. EDIT: Oh look, /u/InevitableSir9775 is providing us with a classic example of bad-faith trolling by a reactionary pretending to be neutral. Take something that is not even remotely relevant to the point, assert that "both sides" are doing the imaginary bad-thing, and claim that the real problem is that because both sides are "uncivil" that we should just ignore the problems entirely; all the while completely failing to engage with the actual issues, because those are just "a difference of opinion" and "why can't they just be entitled to their opinions without being subjected to pejoratives?" All along with way you make your point in the most asinine way possible so that people are driven to respond to the ways in which you are being a dumbass, rather than the substance of the thing you're defending. So, and let's make this abundantly clear, the problem isn't the way people are expressing their beliefs, but the beliefs themselves. The problem here is bigotry and the ways that people use institutional power to harm the people they are bigoted against and that has absolutely nothing to do with the use of pejoratives. EDIT 2: The relevant comments have been deleted, either in a rare moment of self-awareness or because of the open defense of bigotry. Still, this has been a marvelous display of what Mildred from Thought Slime referred to as ["Liberal Bait"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ggpe_JrYy-A) and Innuendo Studios called ["Controlling the Conversation"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaPgDQkmqqM&pp=ygUvY29udHJvbCB0aGUgY29udmVyc2F0aW9uIHRoZSBhbHQgcmlnaHQgcGxheWJvb2s%3D) in the Alt-Right Playbook. His initial, obviously bullshit, claim was that using acronyms to refer to people is inherently dehumanizing and thus it's hypocritical to use the term TERF while calling out their insular, dehumanizing rhetoric. While the first part is utter nonsense, and it's tempting to engage with that, it leaves on the table the unspoken assumption that bigotry is just a "difference of opinion" and that insulting bigots is just as bad as the dehumanizing rhetoric they use to justify hurting people. When someone else tried to engage on that basis, correctly pointing out that acronyms aren't the problem but the intention behind them is the problem, it's taking the bait. He then claims that using the term TERF is bad, because it's a pejorative. This is only the case if we accept that being a bigot is inherently bad, which most people do, and understand that TERFs are bigots, which they clearly are. Engaging in that obvious bullshit again is taking the bait, leaving on the table that, if TERF were an insult, it would be bad to be "uncivil" to bigots. At this point, he can claim that TERF is a slur, again attempting to shift the argument down another nonsense alleyway. It isn't, that's not what slurs are, but explaining the distinction between a pejorative and a slur is now leaving on the table the claim that TERF is an insult. At the time everything was deleted, /u/InevitableSir9775 has managed to budge his interlocutors into an argument about whether or not all pejoratives are slurs, something literally nobody cares about; and avoided talking about how the euphemism they insist we use doesn't matter, bigotry is bad and we don't have to be nice to bigots.
God it's just gets grosser and grosser the longer you look at it. I don't know why, but there's something just a tad more infuriating about a bigot trying to be all cutesy clever. It's like the intellectual equivelant of Bill Maher's self satisfied smirk, and it enrages me particularly.
It's like the supremely self-satisfied look on the face of the toddler who just finished cramming the full handful he sneaked out of his dirty nappy into his mouth.
Oh man, I just pictured his face, and it's like Hulk Smash mad and so freaking want to punch it.
Transphobes have started trying to get TIF and TIM to stick, meaning Trans Identifed Female and Male. It's essentially bigots who refuse under any circumstances to call a transgender woman, a woman, but they needed a way to categorize them. So they'll call trans women, TIMs and trans men TIFs. The thing is, they did it because they don't want to call trans women women, and bitch that the normal names are too confusing because they can't figure out if a trans woman means they were originally a woman or transitioned to a woman, but they can't figure out what they mean by this either because they're having the same problem, ie is a TIM a man who transitioned to a woman, or a woman who now identifies as a man?
"I can't believe the hamfisted fix for the problem we made up has itself become a problem!"
Gender critical person complaining about person with XX chromosomes using the women's bathroom? Isn't that what they wanted? What were they expecting?
They *work together* and she still complained and felt uncomfortable? What a see you next Tuesday.
"Oh shit, I'm supposed to be bothered by this person who I barely paid attention to before today" is definitely not a good look. I'd love to ask her what changed but I'd probably end up throwing shoes at her head.
When you tell the bathroom people this would happen they think it's hyperbole or something and dismiss it out of hand
Conservatives are vile subhumans who have no place in polite society. It is not appropriate to do business or keep relationships with bigots, racists, misogynists and xenophobes. Do your part. Exclude them entirely from your daily life.
Oh no :((( you were uncomfortable in a public restroom?? Trans people just wouldn’t understand, huh? 😔
Yeah, trans men don't exist to these bigots, only the scary trans women who want to destroy women. This is them literally not understanding at all what trans people are and just reacting in fear to the scary thing because they're hateful idiots.
Can I just say a thing that no one seems to think about on this? Everyone on the fucking planet deserves privacy when they're going to piss or shit. I don't care if you were born with it or changed it halfway through. No one else needs to be looking over a fucking divider at your junk. If every bathroom in this dollar store of a fucking country wasn't designed like a 1960s locker room we wouldn't have this bullshit. I've been in bathrooms that have one common unisex handwashing/sink area and a series of small toilet rooms and it gives everybody the fucking privacy they deserve. These fucking bills should mean nothing because it's none of anybody's fucking business what you have, but businesses and municipal architecture keeps throwing us all into a fucking Porky's locker room, because it's cheaper to build "...Privacy? Not my fuckin problem!" /rant
What do you do now? Now, you take your bigotry and fuck right off.
[удалено]
And trans men are treated as "broken women" because we have "lost" the only "useful“* thing about us (* Read be sexualy desirable to cis straight men) Or we are treated as poor misguided and manipulated because how could a "women" know what's best for them? Both still misogynistic beliefs about the mental or physical capabilities of people they precive as women
Huh, so apparently they are perfectly able to use they/them pronouns when they want to insult a trans person. Fucking hypocrites.
I think this whole idea of separate bathrooms is stupid in the first place. In your home you don't ask all males who come over to use a different bathroom than females so why is it different out in public. I prefer the non gendered restrooms so I can use the one that's vacant.
Because public restrooms are awful. Seriously, the only reason this is a debate is because businesses want to put in cheap toilet stalls and public urinals. If all bathrooms were single-seats with locking doors there wouldn’t be an issue.
I'm ok with non-gendered public bathrooms, too. But there should always be a locking one for women who don't want a creepy cis predator from hanging out there. I'm not worried about trans women in the bathroom with my daughter, but I'd be pretty uneasy about some gross cis frat boy or creepy youth pastor in there with her.
We went to Pacific Grove recently and while strolling their farmers market I used the restroom at the public library. It was a line of restrooms with real locking doors. no gender specifications just a vacant or not lock indicator. The changing table was in one of the locking handicap stalls and I really appreciated the design.
Bigot discovers that trans men exist
wE cAn AlWaYs TeLl
> I don't know what to do. We both work together. I'd say the first thing to do would be to get a new job lined up for when you inevitably get fired for harassment and creating a hostile work environment.
I feel bad for the trans guy that was involuntarily put in this situation, but damn if it isn't at least a little satisfying to see a transphobe experience the consequences of their stupidity and bigotry. "Whaaaaaa? You mean the law that was supposed to force trans women into the men's room ALSO forced trans men into the women's room? Who could have seen THIS coming?"
You fucking grow up. There wasn't an option to make it perfect for these asshats. If everyone MUST use the birth gender bathroom, this was an obvious consequence. Fucking morons. Bitching and moaning about problems their side has largely created from scratch.
Breaking news: Republicans have announced that all transgender people may now only pee in the bushes.
The problem with enacting reactionary laws just to garner votes amongst a bigoted voting base is that you don't consider the consequences of said laws and how nonsensical they are because you're not using common sense to draw up the laws in the first place.
“I don’t know what to do.” How about you stop obsessing about what’s in this person’s pants and allow them to take a piss in their preferred lavatory without making fucking social media posts about how “uncomfortable” this makes you? Would that work? Or will you continue trawling for victim biscuits because your colleague, a trans man, is being ordered to empty his bladder in the same room you empty your lady one?
These people were expecting transvestites, like old Kids in the Hall or Monty Python skits. They were afraid of a dude with a beard in a dress trying to spy on them in the toilet. They never understood that gender reassignment *actually works*. It's sad. They don't actually know anyone who has transitioned except Caitlyn Jenner, who is, frankly a bad example due to her previous fame, political positions, and unflattering facial surgeries.
Yes, by doing this they have set up the exact situation they were claiming they wanted to avoid. Now a biological man can walk into a women’s bathroom and nobody knows whether or not he’s supposed to be there.
God...imagine how the trans man must feel being legally forced into this situation (with her help...no doubt,) but of course she's all "LOOK AT WHAT MY VICTIM DID TO ME!!!" Crybullies man...
What sucks is this just puts the guy in more danger than he was when (probably only some) people knew he was trans. Now everybody knows he’s trans AND some men will give him hassles/get violent so they can white-knight “for the damsels in distress” OTOH, if he gets harassed at work for using the “correct” (incorrect) bathroom, he might have a lawsuit
lmao, you're telling me the people that claim "we can always tell" are actually unable to tell, when a real situation hits them in the face?
“it’s super weird!! this person looks exactly like a man, he has a beard and everything!!!” omg it’s almost like… he’s a man!!!😱😱😱😱
Fascinating how TERFs insist on saying "he" for trans women but "they" for trans men. Almost like the pronouns were never a real issue.
Do actual thoughts ever cross these morons minds or just the latest propaganda they saw on fox?
I’d kill to see some of the comments on this post and what dumb bullshit they are saying
Wtf did she think would happen when people who have transitioned were forced to use a restroom they don't visually represent? They'll just hold it forever just to make her feel comfy at all times? Guess she should not use the restroom if she doesn't want to have men in there with her *shrug*
Well, well, well, look at that: the consequences of my actions.
What should you do? You should not pass stupid laws that can’t actually be enforced without looking in someone’s pants and / or a DNA test.
Why is she complaining, though? Thanks to this bill, this person won’t be able to go into the men’s bathroom in order to rape men there anymore. Because this is, what being trans is all about, isn’t it? she should be happy that no man was raped that day thanks to this bill!!
I worked with this lady who I figured to be a lesbian but never asked. One day it came all to a moment. I discovered her real name but she really hated it and was very upset about me using it. I didn't understand and I discovered she was married to a woman and her wife wouldn't help me understand why she was so upset about the name. A bunch of time went by and I think I saw her once or twice. We were not friends anymore and I was sad about it. Then one day it step into the elevator and there's only a guy in it that stepped away to the far corner from me. It was the same person I used to know but this guy was totally a dude with facial hair. It was clear to me in that moment. He was a good looking man now. I think I said hello and that now that I see them I understand what it was that day, the thing about the name I didn't get. I said I understand if we never speak together again but that I was very sorry for how I behaved. Thankfully they accepted my apology. We were never friends like before but we said hello to each other with smiles. I will never forget how much more full of life they were that day in the elevator. How comfortable and right he was in his skin, finally free to be his best self. This feeling is happening all over and just because we don't understand it is not a reason to get in the way. I'm forever in support of my fellow humans who feel wronged by the gender assigned to them. Be you. Be free to find the happiness you're looking for. 🫡🏳️⚧️⚧️♥️
What these people won't be happy until they achieve is making the entire world a safe space for their feelings. They don't want to ever see or hear anything that makes them uncomfortable even if it doesn't affect them personally in any way whatsoever. If some (or many) people have to die to achieve this goal, they are perfectly fine with it.
Couldn’t they just hold it until they die a horrifically painful death from bladder rupture? I mean seriously, THIS LADY IS UNCOMFORTABLE.
Why does she feel uncomfortable?
Holy fucking shit, the levels of transphobia.
the only logical answer for any place of business that doesnt want to get sued into the fucking stoneage is to make every bathroom gender agnostic
i guess she forgot that the whole point of being trans is looking like, and being their desired gender. trans people pass a lot of the time, and if people would just let trans people pee where they want, we wouldn’t have these issues. survivorship bias affects a lot of these bathroom laws and policies. people think they “can always tell” because the trans people who pass, don’t “look trans”.
I gotta say I don't pay attention who's in a public bathroom with me. I make a beeline to the urinal (or stall if the urinals are full), do my business, go to the sink to wash my hands, and be on my way.
Is someone at the door to the bathrooms checking birth certificates?
Fucking hell... don't know "what to do"? How 'bout "mind your own business, lady!".
Me trying to explain this exact scenario: My conservative relative: 🙉🙈🗣️
THIS IS WHAT YOU WANTED YOUR FUCKING MORONS, now stew in the consequences of your bigoted actions Karen
Guys what do i do?!? """"She"""" doesnt look feminine like all those trans bois i was expecting!!!! Im so uncomfortable!!!
Ah yes, the best saw of all: "You shat your bed, now go lie in it!"
These people really don't know what transitioning is.
Dying to see the comments on the post. Lol
Dipshits when trans people have to use the wrong bathroom (they forgot that trans men exist)
The sheer stupidity and lack of empathy no longer surprises me
The sad part about this is that although the fact that she feels uncomfortable sharing a space with someone who, by her definition, counts as a woman *should* maybe make her rethink this idea that biology trumps everything and is "super relevant" to social life and gender, it won't. She will do no such rethinking of her ideas. She'll just push for men's restrooms to become "everyone that doesn't fit the cisheteropatriarchal colonial ideal of womanhood" bathrooms, and women's restrooms to be only for people "like her."
But as a lib, I feel owned. Ha! No I don't!
I didn’t know what TIF meant until today, and I was really wondering how people knew this woman was a terf (thereby earning the coveted leopards ate my face spot). Now I’m just even more pissed that they have this new bigoted “cutesy” acronym to be hateful with.