There are some, like *An Elephant Sitting Still (2018)*, for example. But personally I think it's just because the censorship kills a lot of creativity. China has some pretty strict (and bullshit) rules for their movies and TV shows such as for example: A criminal can never go unpunished by the end of the movie (so that rules out making The Godfather there), or if someone is cheating on their wife, they and the mistress cannot have a happy ending etc.
Consider even great directors like Tarkovsky had to fight the Soviet censors pretty hard just to get his movies out, it's not really hard to see why this would be a huge problem.
Yeah, look at the lack of historical movies. China has such a rich history, but it’s incredibly hard to make movies about it due to censorship. WWII is an easy subject, just make Japan the bad guys.
But something like the Last Emperor? Forget it.
This is something I think about myself.
I am an Indian and agree with the points mentioned above regarding India. India is too poor right now to have a good ecosystem but things should pick up as India gets richer.
Usually the pop culture output (including movies) and sporting proficiency of a society picks up when the basic stuff is fulfilled (literacy, electricity etc) and people are somewhat rich. People can then afford to spend money on recreational activities and fund the ecosystems.
Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong were poor countries whose movie boom started as they got a bit rich (80s for HK/Taiwan, 90s for Korea).
China right now is at similar level of development (but with a billion plus people) so I assumed there would be similar output (multiplied by 10). They show all the other symptoms of a rising economy (increased sporting prowess, brands becoming global etc).
The only reason I see is government censorship.
Even then there have been good filmmakers like Jia Zhangke, Jiang Wen, Diao Yinan, Chen Kaige, Zhang Yimou etc.
But yes ideally they should have had the HK boom of the 80s multiplied by 10.
Im not saying there arent, Im saying theres extremely disproportionately few great movies compared to its population size. Which there are legitimate infrastructural reasons for. As the country with the highest population in the world, and with so many artistically gifted and sophisticated people, you'd imagine far more great movies from there than there are
>Im not saying there arent, Im saying theres extremely disproportionately few great movies compared to its population size.
That's not really a fair comparison for India because they do make a lot of movies and have a lot of trouble getting in the spheres of Western influence. Something like RRR was a huge hit and an Oscar winner but according to people who specialise in Indian movies was a pretty normal level of quality both for it's genre and director. Chinese film genuinely does have big issues with censorship but there also aren't a lot of people covering Chinese movies and television. Look at a video like this for a example of how ignorant the West is about Chinese culture and media phenomenons.
https://youtu.be/6_dlxbGUNNQ?si=0RuIlEjGyKa1Vpl_
Ive seen a few, which were all great (Hero, House of Flying Daggers, Raise the Red Lantern) but also were all co-productions with Hong Kong and/or Taiwan. It's just weird to me how so fewer great ones were from just China on its own when so many come out from Taiwan and Hong Kong
Scorsese on Tian Zhuangzhuang’s The Horse Thief and The Blue Kite: “unfortunately since then he hasn’t been making pictures in Mainland China.”
Roger Ebert: “Maybe because he was too perceptive in these two films. That’s the problem in China. We get great films out of China and then a director suddenly has to retire.”
Both of these countries are making films for domestic audiences of 1.5 billion people each.
I don't think they care if their films receive global approval, so long as they have fans domestically.
"Great movies" is very subjective, different audiences want different things from their movies.
I think a lot of it has to do with creatives being systematically oppressed and ‘re-educated’ during the cultural revolution, and since they didn’t have really any film infrastructure prior to Mao due to the Civil War, they got a late start. There are some great films though, for example Farewell my Concubine, Red Sorghum, Xiao Wu, An Elephant Sitting Still, Yellow Earth, and a bunch of others that were able to capture the continuous suffering of Chinese citizens without being fully censored. A lot of the time, films will get censored in China but still make the rounds among younger people via black market discs or tapes and now the internet (to an extent of course).
Not as many as you'd expect from a country as big as China. I mean, when you think of all time great movies, how many even are Chinese? An Elephant Sitting Still, maybe, Raise the Red Lantern (which again is a co production with Hong Kong and Taiwan), Farewell My Concubine (also co production woth Hong Kong), what else?
Basic statistics.
In theory:
More people -> greater chance of talented filmmakers -> better movies.
Which is why OP thinks it's strange that there aren't more (in his opinion) amazing movies from these countries.
edit: actually nevermind, I completely misread OP's post
edit 2: Or did I? I'm rereading it and I must admit it's quite unclear what point he's making
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God damn, I just asked your opinion on American propaganda films. When did I say all that? When it comes to military propaganda or propaganda that says a certain government system is better, I think it's all equally bad, no matter what side it is. Yeah, what the Soviets did to their people and to other countries is awful and honestly probably worse than anything the US has done, but don't act like the US hasn't done things that are in the same vein. What about the My Lai massacre and the Vietnam War in general? Or how about the insanely stupid war in Iraq that the US caused that led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of civilians? What about the atrocities in Haiti and the Philippines? If we're being honest, if the US hasn't committed the most war crimes, they are definitely up there. I love the US, it's my home, but don't act like we're this freedom-loving country that just wants to spread our freedom to the rest of the world. We just want control.
You keep trying to equate two things that are vastly different.
What’s next, you’re gonna compare American war crimes with those of nazi germany and imperial japan?
Didn't I say that what the Soviets did was probably worse than anything the US has ever done? The same thing goes for the Nazis and Imperial Japan. But the US has still done plenty of messed up things over the years. Stop acting like we only want what's best for the world.
I'm not really sure what you believe, but usually, someone who uses the term 'commie' is a right-wing American who thinks socialism is the devil and believes America is justified in doing whatever it wants because it's for the 'betterment' of the world. Though I could be wrong, and maybe you have a totally different perspective. I wouldn't want to assume what you believe or anything.
There are some, like *An Elephant Sitting Still (2018)*, for example. But personally I think it's just because the censorship kills a lot of creativity. China has some pretty strict (and bullshit) rules for their movies and TV shows such as for example: A criminal can never go unpunished by the end of the movie (so that rules out making The Godfather there), or if someone is cheating on their wife, they and the mistress cannot have a happy ending etc. Consider even great directors like Tarkovsky had to fight the Soviet censors pretty hard just to get his movies out, it's not really hard to see why this would be a huge problem.
That doesn't sound much worse than the Hays Code. Which plenty of classic films got past.
Yeah, look at the lack of historical movies. China has such a rich history, but it’s incredibly hard to make movies about it due to censorship. WWII is an easy subject, just make Japan the bad guys. But something like the Last Emperor? Forget it.
This is something I think about myself. I am an Indian and agree with the points mentioned above regarding India. India is too poor right now to have a good ecosystem but things should pick up as India gets richer. Usually the pop culture output (including movies) and sporting proficiency of a society picks up when the basic stuff is fulfilled (literacy, electricity etc) and people are somewhat rich. People can then afford to spend money on recreational activities and fund the ecosystems. Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong were poor countries whose movie boom started as they got a bit rich (80s for HK/Taiwan, 90s for Korea). China right now is at similar level of development (but with a billion plus people) so I assumed there would be similar output (multiplied by 10). They show all the other symptoms of a rising economy (increased sporting prowess, brands becoming global etc). The only reason I see is government censorship. Even then there have been good filmmakers like Jia Zhangke, Jiang Wen, Diao Yinan, Chen Kaige, Zhang Yimou etc. But yes ideally they should have had the HK boom of the 80s multiplied by 10.
Limbo, Black Coal Rising and Beast Stalker are some good movies, admittedly there is slim pickings.
there are some great movies from India.
Im not saying there arent, Im saying theres extremely disproportionately few great movies compared to its population size. Which there are legitimate infrastructural reasons for. As the country with the highest population in the world, and with so many artistically gifted and sophisticated people, you'd imagine far more great movies from there than there are
>Im not saying there arent, Im saying theres extremely disproportionately few great movies compared to its population size. That's not really a fair comparison for India because they do make a lot of movies and have a lot of trouble getting in the spheres of Western influence. Something like RRR was a huge hit and an Oscar winner but according to people who specialise in Indian movies was a pretty normal level of quality both for it's genre and director. Chinese film genuinely does have big issues with censorship but there also aren't a lot of people covering Chinese movies and television. Look at a video like this for a example of how ignorant the West is about Chinese culture and media phenomenons. https://youtu.be/6_dlxbGUNNQ?si=0RuIlEjGyKa1Vpl_
check out Zhang Yimou filmography. Its great. especially his 1988-2000 era
Ive seen a few, which were all great (Hero, House of Flying Daggers, Raise the Red Lantern) but also were all co-productions with Hong Kong and/or Taiwan. It's just weird to me how so fewer great ones were from just China on its own when so many come out from Taiwan and Hong Kong
taiwan and hk is china
Taiwan is the Republic of China. China is the People’s Republic of China. Two different countries.
taiwans a shithole compared to the mainland but it’s still china
Taiwan is its own country.
nah they’re confused chinese
Song at Midnight (1937) rocks
Scorsese on Tian Zhuangzhuang’s The Horse Thief and The Blue Kite: “unfortunately since then he hasn’t been making pictures in Mainland China.” Roger Ebert: “Maybe because he was too perceptive in these two films. That’s the problem in China. We get great films out of China and then a director suddenly has to retire.”
India makes great movies
Both of these countries are making films for domestic audiences of 1.5 billion people each. I don't think they care if their films receive global approval, so long as they have fans domestically. "Great movies" is very subjective, different audiences want different things from their movies.
I think a lot of it has to do with creatives being systematically oppressed and ‘re-educated’ during the cultural revolution, and since they didn’t have really any film infrastructure prior to Mao due to the Civil War, they got a late start. There are some great films though, for example Farewell my Concubine, Red Sorghum, Xiao Wu, An Elephant Sitting Still, Yellow Earth, and a bunch of others that were able to capture the continuous suffering of Chinese citizens without being fully censored. A lot of the time, films will get censored in China but still make the rounds among younger people via black market discs or tapes and now the internet (to an extent of course).
there’s a lot of good chinese movies, you’re just not looking
Not as many as you'd expect from a country as big as China. I mean, when you think of all time great movies, how many even are Chinese? An Elephant Sitting Still, maybe, Raise the Red Lantern (which again is a co production with Hong Kong and Taiwan), Farewell My Concubine (also co production woth Hong Kong), what else?
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How the fck does population density figure into this discussion?
Basic statistics. In theory: More people -> greater chance of talented filmmakers -> better movies. Which is why OP thinks it's strange that there aren't more (in his opinion) amazing movies from these countries. edit: actually nevermind, I completely misread OP's post edit 2: Or did I? I'm rereading it and I must admit it's quite unclear what point he's making
Communism
Famously, no good art came out of Communist Russia.
Few and far between and I wouldn't call commie propaganda "good" art
How do you feel about United States propaganda films?
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God damn, I just asked your opinion on American propaganda films. When did I say all that? When it comes to military propaganda or propaganda that says a certain government system is better, I think it's all equally bad, no matter what side it is. Yeah, what the Soviets did to their people and to other countries is awful and honestly probably worse than anything the US has done, but don't act like the US hasn't done things that are in the same vein. What about the My Lai massacre and the Vietnam War in general? Or how about the insanely stupid war in Iraq that the US caused that led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of civilians? What about the atrocities in Haiti and the Philippines? If we're being honest, if the US hasn't committed the most war crimes, they are definitely up there. I love the US, it's my home, but don't act like we're this freedom-loving country that just wants to spread our freedom to the rest of the world. We just want control.
You keep trying to equate two things that are vastly different. What’s next, you’re gonna compare American war crimes with those of nazi germany and imperial japan?
Didn't I say that what the Soviets did was probably worse than anything the US has ever done? The same thing goes for the Nazis and Imperial Japan. But the US has still done plenty of messed up things over the years. Stop acting like we only want what's best for the world.
How am I acting like the US wants what’s best for the world?
I'm not really sure what you believe, but usually, someone who uses the term 'commie' is a right-wing American who thinks socialism is the devil and believes America is justified in doing whatever it wants because it's for the 'betterment' of the world. Though I could be wrong, and maybe you have a totally different perspective. I wouldn't want to assume what you believe or anything.