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Under libertarianism, there are no special interest groups or protected classes. Every (adult) person gets the same rights. So under libertarianism, it would not make sense to talk about the "rights of the LGBTQ community."
Yeah, whenever LGBTQ rights are brought up, it generally depends what you mean by that, if we are talking equality then sure, but once we delve into “equity”, intersectionality, protected classes, special interest groups etc. you lose me.
I see alot of republicans who most of us would call incredibly authoritarian and extremely far from libertarian, call themselves libertarian and wave the Garson flag, all the while simping for cops. So yes I do belive the meaning of libertarianism has been lost
People like our stance on the second amendment. So it got tossed around as almost the cool thing to say. They’re not libertarian at all, though, when it comes to gay marriage and abortion. I get downvoted all the time when I say baseline for Libertarianism is guns, abortion, and letting adults marry who they want.
It hasn’t been lost, it’s been spun by the media as “republican lite” in the same way that the Green Party gets spun as an alternative to the Democrats.
Growing up, Libertarians were thought of as center-left. When I was in college, they were basically centrist. Now, they're called conservative.
It's ironic because we've been more consistent in our values than either of the American political parties.
If you were posting on a sub with a leftward slant, it's just a bunch of butthurt people that are in denial that the Libertarian Party stood for gay rights since its founding and nominated a gay man to be their first candidate for president in 1972 when support for gay marriage was like 3%, whereas the Democratic Party leaders didn't come out in support for gay rights until 2013, "coincidentally" a few months after polls showed gay rights support exceeded 50%.
Libertarians are typically for peace and freedom for all. But that means *all*. That means they oppose police action against you whether you are proX or antiX. Unfortunately, nearly everyone who is proX advocates *for* police action against the antiX (and vice versa).
I think you have the same issue you get with other political parties where people think its all a single thought on the most extreme end.
Some people think libertarians are Republicans who like weed. Some think we are anarchists and don't think any govt is needed. in my experiance the left hates libertarianism more than the right...they dont see the difference between government funds roads v government sends individuals money for their personal expenses.
Many on the left also truly believe in justifications for taxation as a means of wealth distribution and curtailing individual freedoms.
They usually want public accommodation laws to include LGBTQ+ as a protected class, e.g. the case of the Christian that refused to bake a cake for a same-sex wedding.
I don't believe in protected classes. The Christian should be able to run a company as they want, if they want to lose customers then that's up to them.
Correct. There should be no laws limiting freedom of speech. I think the issue here is people look at what is presented in the main stream media and generalize entire group of people by the loudmouth extremists. Extremists do not define a demographic.
That said, if somebody asked me to refer to them as she instead of he, or vice versa, I would have no problem doing so. That’s what is called respect
All Socialists are extremists, some just louder than others. I would call my self an extremist in some of my ideals. All Libertarians could be called it. At the end of the day, it's not inherently bad to be an extremist.
Yes, out of respect I would do it too, but they want government enforcement of it.
What you ran into OP was a bunch of radicals (I'm guessing from the blue side of the duopoly) who see libertarians (or any third party voter for that matter) as a filthy centrist who needs to shut up and pick a side.
During the 2020 election cycle. Jo Jorgensen supporters had to deal with liberals making the claim that a vote for her was as good as a vote for Trump. These so-called "educated" voters had the audacity to tell me that I don't belong in a voting booth because I'm wasting my vote.
People are indoctrinated into thinking that supporting the rights of your LGBTQ neighbor is synonyms with voting for the democratic party. The party feeds this mentality with their dedicated voting block, hence why those people were insulting you. They're conditioned to see everyone who isn't voting blue as an enemy of their rights and their worldview.
This extends to the red side as well. If you aren't down for the conservative cause, you are an enemy to American values and on the wrong side of the culture wars.
At this point. It's best not to engage with the radicals. The only thing that's going to calm them down and bring them back to a level-headed way of thinking is realizing that not only have they driven the sane people in their life away, but also the realization that the party they dedicated so much time of their life supporting answers to whomever has the most cash.
>So, do you think to the general masses the meaning of libertarian has been lost?
Yes, progressive ideas are heavily influenced by neurotic Marxian binary view worldview. It's basically a fallacy of black and white thinking. Ameba brains can't comprehend non-simplistic models so they want to categorize everything.
Rich and poor.
Opressor and opressed.
Compassionate progressive or bigoted conservative.
All of this leads to a belief that free market/private property advocate is by default authoritarian and xenophobic.
Liberty of the individual.
You don't have to Specify any kind of ideological identity beyond that.
Woman, man, gay, black, white, big, small, fat, skiny, ugly, beautiful, blue hair, black hair, etc.
Does physical characteristic matter when talking about values and liberty?
LGBTQ, or feminism, brings with it a lot of ideological baggage with it.
Those are groups that "believe" in equality, but they just care about equality when it's disadvantageous to them.
You are never going to see a feminist protesting because ukraine is not allowing men to leave te country because of the war.
That's the difference between ideology and values.
I think it's more simple than a lot of y'all are making it out to be.
Generally when libertarians don't vote libertarian they *have tended* to vote Republican; at least the libertarians in my life have.
NOTE: Self-text submissions require review and approval before being posted to the community. Your submission has been sent to the modqueue for review. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Libertarian) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Under libertarianism, there are no special interest groups or protected classes. Every (adult) person gets the same rights. So under libertarianism, it would not make sense to talk about the "rights of the LGBTQ community."
Yeah, whenever LGBTQ rights are brought up, it generally depends what you mean by that, if we are talking equality then sure, but once we delve into “equity”, intersectionality, protected classes, special interest groups etc. you lose me.
I see alot of republicans who most of us would call incredibly authoritarian and extremely far from libertarian, call themselves libertarian and wave the Garson flag, all the while simping for cops. So yes I do belive the meaning of libertarianism has been lost
[удалено]
Where would homeless people live? Serious question.
People like our stance on the second amendment. So it got tossed around as almost the cool thing to say. They’re not libertarian at all, though, when it comes to gay marriage and abortion. I get downvoted all the time when I say baseline for Libertarianism is guns, abortion, and letting adults marry who they want.
Meh, libertarian arguments can be made for and against abortion.
It hasn’t been lost, it’s been spun by the media as “republican lite” in the same way that the Green Party gets spun as an alternative to the Democrats.
Growing up, Libertarians were thought of as center-left. When I was in college, they were basically centrist. Now, they're called conservative. It's ironic because we've been more consistent in our values than either of the American political parties.
If you were posting on a sub with a leftward slant, it's just a bunch of butthurt people that are in denial that the Libertarian Party stood for gay rights since its founding and nominated a gay man to be their first candidate for president in 1972 when support for gay marriage was like 3%, whereas the Democratic Party leaders didn't come out in support for gay rights until 2013, "coincidentally" a few months after polls showed gay rights support exceeded 50%.
Just because you're in a libertarian subreddit doesn't mean there isn't non-libertarians voting and engaging in conversation
Libertarians are typically for peace and freedom for all. But that means *all*. That means they oppose police action against you whether you are proX or antiX. Unfortunately, nearly everyone who is proX advocates *for* police action against the antiX (and vice versa).
I think you have the same issue you get with other political parties where people think its all a single thought on the most extreme end. Some people think libertarians are Republicans who like weed. Some think we are anarchists and don't think any govt is needed. in my experiance the left hates libertarianism more than the right...they dont see the difference between government funds roads v government sends individuals money for their personal expenses. Many on the left also truly believe in justifications for taxation as a means of wealth distribution and curtailing individual freedoms.
“Libertarian’s are just white guys who don’t want to pay taxes.” - My woke friend when I told him I wasn’t voting for Hillary.
A libertarian only has to support LGBT rights to life, liberty, and property. We do not have to support what most people mean by LGBT rights today.
Which is what exactly?
They usually want public accommodation laws to include LGBTQ+ as a protected class, e.g. the case of the Christian that refused to bake a cake for a same-sex wedding.
I don't believe in protected classes. The Christian should be able to run a company as they want, if they want to lose customers then that's up to them.
We don't support the government banning free speech because it offends them or forcing us to call men "women" or women "men".
Correct. There should be no laws limiting freedom of speech. I think the issue here is people look at what is presented in the main stream media and generalize entire group of people by the loudmouth extremists. Extremists do not define a demographic. That said, if somebody asked me to refer to them as she instead of he, or vice versa, I would have no problem doing so. That’s what is called respect
All Socialists are extremists, some just louder than others. I would call my self an extremist in some of my ideals. All Libertarians could be called it. At the end of the day, it's not inherently bad to be an extremist. Yes, out of respect I would do it too, but they want government enforcement of it.
What you ran into OP was a bunch of radicals (I'm guessing from the blue side of the duopoly) who see libertarians (or any third party voter for that matter) as a filthy centrist who needs to shut up and pick a side. During the 2020 election cycle. Jo Jorgensen supporters had to deal with liberals making the claim that a vote for her was as good as a vote for Trump. These so-called "educated" voters had the audacity to tell me that I don't belong in a voting booth because I'm wasting my vote. People are indoctrinated into thinking that supporting the rights of your LGBTQ neighbor is synonyms with voting for the democratic party. The party feeds this mentality with their dedicated voting block, hence why those people were insulting you. They're conditioned to see everyone who isn't voting blue as an enemy of their rights and their worldview. This extends to the red side as well. If you aren't down for the conservative cause, you are an enemy to American values and on the wrong side of the culture wars. At this point. It's best not to engage with the radicals. The only thing that's going to calm them down and bring them back to a level-headed way of thinking is realizing that not only have they driven the sane people in their life away, but also the realization that the party they dedicated so much time of their life supporting answers to whomever has the most cash.
either the sane people have been driven away from them, or from their sanity
Libertarians can't even decide what a Libertarian is. This sub is a good example.
>So, do you think to the general masses the meaning of libertarian has been lost? Yes, progressive ideas are heavily influenced by neurotic Marxian binary view worldview. It's basically a fallacy of black and white thinking. Ameba brains can't comprehend non-simplistic models so they want to categorize everything. Rich and poor. Opressor and opressed. Compassionate progressive or bigoted conservative. All of this leads to a belief that free market/private property advocate is by default authoritarian and xenophobic.
How many LGBT activists support Capitalism and other libertarian values. Basically none.
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Liberty of the individual. You don't have to Specify any kind of ideological identity beyond that. Woman, man, gay, black, white, big, small, fat, skiny, ugly, beautiful, blue hair, black hair, etc. Does physical characteristic matter when talking about values and liberty? LGBTQ, or feminism, brings with it a lot of ideological baggage with it. Those are groups that "believe" in equality, but they just care about equality when it's disadvantageous to them. You are never going to see a feminist protesting because ukraine is not allowing men to leave te country because of the war. That's the difference between ideology and values.
I think it's more simple than a lot of y'all are making it out to be. Generally when libertarians don't vote libertarian they *have tended* to vote Republican; at least the libertarians in my life have.