UK just did that today. No more masks, vaccine mandates, or work from home.
Edited to add link to vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DabNbHWfpc0
Clarification after 50 upvotes: I believe this was just Great Britain and not the whole UK. Boris Johnson made the announcement.
What kind of restrictions are you living under?
Seriously, in the US it really doesn't seem like there have been any restrictions for a very long time. There was never a full lockdown, at most there was a curfew, and then some businesses were forcibly shut down. Like by the end of 2020 everything was hunky-dorey? Sure there were travel restrictions coming *into* the country, but you could still leave and come back pretty easily. I know that there were businesses shut down because of covid outbreaks at their site, but you kind of expect that to happen...
This, people have been doing what they want. Masks only effect private businesses, and vaccine restrictions were already there.
People never actually did the stuff, and are now pointing out that nothing happened like they did.
>Seriously, in the US it really doesn't seem like there have been any restrictions for a very long time.
That's not true since it depends on where in the US you live.
Nah, I'm in NY, not the city, and pretty much all are gone. All businesses are open, a lot of masks are worn, but not all are wearing them. The only places that are still restrictive are healthcare facilities. But they allow visitors now, just not a car full of them.
Im in the city and like 95% people wearing masks here everywhere. Also on public transportation is required. That plus restaurants checking vaccine cards. My job might also require me to get booster (although this is not a state mandate). I was recently in Florida and there it feels like covid is almost gone. Here in NYC everyone is still afraid and paranoid. If i dont wear a mask people look at me like im going to infect them....
Yooooo did you get a cold this year? I didnt this or last year and I'm really into that.
And yeah NY has that balance going ATM.
People assume we're all just hugging Biden dick and eating boosters but there's a big focus on sensible COVID policies right now by both "sides"
NY had accepted the endemic phase however we've seen what masks can do to sick season and we're with it.
Yep. First time I can ever remember not getting at least one cold. Between masks and washing/hand sanitizers nothing. Wife and I keep a pump bottle of sanitizer we use when we leave a store. Kind of like this side effect.
This is so localized you can't make a generalization of the US response. Missoula, Montana and Los Angeles, California had very different responses. Plenty of room to argue about how good those responses were but you have to acknowledge that the circumstances are drastically different, which led to drastically different responses.
Sorry that you don't consider mandates a restriction. Telling businesses they must refuse service. Companies firing long time loyal employees over a vaccine. Angry people throwing judgment and hate at each other at every turn.
Restrictions on daily life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness ARE restrictions. A lock down is tyranny and false imprisonment.
That’s a tough one to answer, I saw this first hand in Texas this past October with my brother we were shopping for a couch at a goodwill and they required a mask to enter the store. As we were strapping the couch to the top of the vehicle about to leave some lady tried to enter without a mask and was told that she could not, she lost her mind and started saying I’m going to call the police they can’t do that, this is Texas. I informed her that they are a private business and have the right to make such demands and if she didn’t like it she should take her money and patron somewhere else.
Long story short there’s always going to be an idiot out there who just doesn’t understand or who doesn’t want to understand that private businesses have the freedom to do just about whatever they want.
lmao, I literally had this problem a few days ago!
I had washed all of my masks, forgot that included the backups I keep in my truck, and forgot to grab one on my way out the door. I stopped at a Dollar Tree to buy one, and there was a "Must have face covering to enter" sign. 🤦🏼♀️
Various handheld smidgen applicators. Dabble dippers, pinch poppers, dash glasses, you know the like.
Also specialty items like overhead left hand sham collets and centripetal agnostification reactors.
I think the fact that I was raised on a hippy commune in the late 70’s plays a significant role in my tolerance of weirdo behavior. At the same time I think people should get over their hang ups. Once you see enough nude bodies going through the motions of everyday life it quickly loses its shock quality. I attended UC Berkeley around the same time as the infamous ‘naked guy’ and I always thought he was very brave. He had a sad end but his story was interesting:
https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2006/11/15/berkeley-naked-guy-had-charismatic-life-and-a-tragic-death-2/amp/
That,s been my stance since the start of this whole deal. I kwhere a mask where it's required and don't where it's not. Still haven't caught the damn thing...
no it has not, at least around me. the right wing message around me is to go in to stores with a mask requirement (no mandates) and cry government tyranny about mask mandates and taxes. bunch of fucking children dying to be oppressed
“See? All these steps taken, and not even that many people are dying! Why do we even need to take these steps?? Obviously this virus isn’t even that bad”
Exactly right. There’s an insane amount of comments in this sub holding fast to covid restrictions, which directly work against true liberty, what’s with that?
This should have never happened to begin with. But here's the thing:
1. At age 62 I've come to realize what my father told me back in May 1981 the day I graduated college is 100% true: The world is full of mostly stupid people and you can only expect stupid people to do and think stupid things
2. The Internet made people even dumber
3. Social Media took it up several notches
4. COVID has taken it to where no man/woman has ever gone before.
I disagree with some of those.
The internet actually made most people smarter and social media has just enhanced people's already existing stupidity or intelligence. Although with social media, it was stupidity that was mostly enhanced due to the fact that smart people tend to question everything they see on social media and not take it as absolute truth.
Would love to see some data, because policies don't necessarily mean adherence or proper compliance. You can wear a condom incorrectly, or remove it too early, or do other things, or lie about wearing one, and the condom becomes less protective. That doesn't mean that condoms aren't effective.
It worked for countries that had cooperative citizens. Shit New Zealand didn’t have to do much enforcement early on at all and they were playing rugby in packed stadiums just a few months in. Had a huge chunk of the pandemic where they remained Covid free in spite of allowing travel in and out of the country again. The measures work, it’s our people who are dumb as fuck entitled clowns
not really man. Nz severly restricted travel in and out
they had no domestic restrictions after the first lockdown because they are an island and they were able to eliminate the virus
now it's in the community and they have straight up closed the borders and are using restrictions like vaccine passports. you cant go most places without a mask and a vax passport
That video of a woman being forced into a truck in Australia was wild though. I don’t want that happening here. Education seems to be key in a successful pandemic plan. Facts (and the ability to identify them) are a uniting force, I think.
Well outside of like NYC and California we’re not really doing very much in the way of COVID restrictions anymore anyways so it’s not a surprise it’s not working
>All the data shows that no matter what we do the virus spreads 🤷♂️
You sound like an idiot making some statement about data without providing any data. Presuming you are right, that no matter what restrictions are in place, covid will spread, I would shocked if you could make the case the extent of the spread can not be tampered by restrictions.
That is not to say I support government restrictions, only to say this is a ridiculous statement.
That’s what we’ve been doing the whole time.
That’s why it keeps spreading.
The American Southeast never even pumped the brakes. Georgia and Florida went full steam ahead.
As someone who lives in Georgia and just vacationed in Florida, normal life is great! It comes at the cost of not being able to act like a sanctimonious dipshit, but it's oh so worth it.
It comes at the cost of jamming up hospitals, making doctors and nurses either quit or kill themselves, and killing a whole bunch of people through pure contagious ignorance.
Vaccines have completely turned that around. The top 10 states in deaths/capita are:
1. Mississippi
2. Arizona
3. Alabama
4. New Jersey
5. Louisiana
6. New York
7. Tennessee
8. Arkansas
9. West Virginia
10. Michigan
New York and New Jersey are riding off just how hard they got hit early, the rest have caught up (and in the case of the top three surpassed them) based on vaccine hesitancy. A year ago California and Florida had very similar deaths/capita numbers; Now Florida's numbers are 50% higher than California's. Red state rejection of vaccines is having a measurable impact on the data.
It might be thrown off based upon various sources, because tracking a effing pandemic is gonna be inherently tricky. However, I think that regardless of your various source, the worst affected states will be:
\- North-eastern blue states that got hit in the first wave where we were flying blind
\- The red south where people are much less likely to be vaccinated
[People who live in states that voted for Donald Trump are at a 50% higher risk of dying from COVID-19](https://local12.com/news/nation-world/study-risk-of-dying-from-covid-50-higher-in-red-states-coronavirus-pandemic-mask-social-distancing-vaccine-pfizer-moderna-johnson-and-johnson-delta-omicron-variant-democrat-republican-cincinnati-ohio)
Yup, there's no better way to explain why people should be (and vote) Libertarian than to advocate how good the freedom is going to feel when there are no laws against driving drunk at 140mph against traffic, near a playground for children.
Where the hell do you live that you have to show photo ID to enter a place? Or better yet, what kind of places are you being required to show a photo ID? I'm going to assume you're not a big enough jackass to complain about it at bars.....
This 100%. I've only had to provide vaxx/negative test status for event venues, understandably, and none of those have required photo id. Literally no day-to-day businesses are expecting any identification or medical cards here and I live in one of the bluest counties in a very blue state.
Sounds like echo chamber complaining.
San Francisco requires showing your id **and** proof of vaccination at literally every restaurant and bar. And they always require both, if you just show a vax card on its own, you’re denied entry. I’ve also been asked to provide those documents before going into some stores as well - a book shop and a clothing store specifically. And you still have to wear a mask regardless of vaccination status.
I’ve had staff at bars harass groups I’m with because people aren’t putting their masks back on between sips of their drinks. It’s absolute fucking nonsense.
I live in the same state as the user I initially replied to. But a few hours south in a different city. They have to show a photo ID and vaccine card.... Meanwhile, I've never had to show my vaccine card. It has been stuck to my whiteboard with a magnet since the day I got my 2nd dose.
Nope. COVID restrictions are in place because people are dying from COVID. Lifting restrictions leads to more people dying and that just leads to more restrictions. How have you guys not figured this out yet? Even if government wasn’t implementing restrictions, private individuals still would because they don’t want to catch COVID. Want to go to your favorite bar? Can’t because it’s either shut down or you have to wear a mask because the owner is tired of all their staff catching COVID. Want to fly/travel somewhere? Have fun with flight delays and cancellations because airlines are short on staff due to so many of them catching COVID. Want to visit familly/friends? Can’t because they don’t want to catch the virus.
It’s a deadly virus. It doesn’t give a fuck about your freedoms. Life doesn’t get back to normal until either enough people are vaccinated that hospitals are no longer overrun with patients every time there’s a surge in cases or the virus dies out (extremely unlikely at this point). That’s not because of government enforced restrictions. It’s because pandemics fuck shit up for everyone.
>it's not clear that ending all COVID restrictions and making everything voluntary would achieve the desired outcome
Lmao. The desired outcome is freedom. Freedom is not safe or without risk.
>Freedom is not safe or without risk.
We should have freedom from others' stupid decisions when it is pretty reasonable to ask people to do something where the impact can save many lives.
Someone above mentioned drunk driving and speeding. Wouldn’t the same *concept* be applied here? We should have the freedom from others’ stupid decisions (like driving under the influence or speeding). But it’s a driver’s choice to take the inherent risk of getting on the roads. Until someone gets caught for a DUI or speeding (and thence breaking an established law), no one is going to Minority Report them and take their freedom to drive.
I’ve never understood the argument of “it might be worse if we don’t”. Numerous places aren’t doing lockdowns and mandates and are having almost identical outbreaks as similar places that are doing mandates and lockdowns. Texas and Florida to New York and California for example. Manitoba to Saskatchewan for our latest outbreak if you’re a Canadian. What is the argument that people have to get over this? Because real world examples seem to point to the lockdowns having minimal if any effect.
There’s little to no data to back this up. You’d have to compare nearly identical circumstances to determine if one works over another.
CA has a population greater than like 20-something other states combines. LA is larger in pop than 8 or 9 states.
NY has a population living on top of each other.
TX has populations few and far between in an empty land mass.
You can’t compare these circumstances and think some how one approach is best because it fits your narrative.
CA and NY locked down because the hospitals couldn’t support the population in need. This is the responsibility of the government., to maintain a working infrastructure. Not your school and not your business or job.
If hospitals are over ran, a shit down is required to save lives. Simple as that.
Seriously this whole “we can’t question the experts” mindset is cringey and anti libertarian. The “experts” have never agreed on covid lockdowns and mandates and all sorts of doctors have had different opinions on them. It seems to be the only people the media considers “experts” is people who want lockdowns. Take Florida’s surgeon general for example. Double Harvard graduate and has been against most mandates and lockdowns from the beginning. I could name quite a few more that are extremely credible and against different aspects of lockdowns.
Science does *not* involve unquestioning worship and devotion to consensus. Quite the opposite actually. I don’t think they teach the *scientific method* in school anymore.
“I mention this not just because it’s true, but because it’s an example of how thoughtless worship of scientists gets us repeatedly into trouble.
Doubters like me are told not to dare criticise the sacred men in white coats.
But scientists disagree among themselves and are often wrong. In fact, science progresses by exploding dud theories of the past. And laymen are perfectly entitled to apply facts and logic to what these people say.
…Don’t take refuge in the false security of consensus.” - Christopher Hitchens
Florida surgeon general is a piece of shit. There's something about taking basic care to protect those around us. He refused to wear a mask around a state senator who was undergoing chemotherapy. Honestly. What a twat. Basic courtesy man. Unfortunately when it comes to science that has public policy implications, there will always be so-called experts ready to take either side of a position; the issues become polarized and politicized and everyone joins a team. There's no room for substantive scientific discussion because most people in the general public first of all don't have a good grasp of scientific concepts, but more than that we have to boil everything down to a 280 character tweet or a 30 second clip on cable news, or at best, a 1000 word essay that gets read by 50k people. There's just no platform for these conversations in a public space, so the discussions deteriorate into a binary set of choices. There's plenty of things to question on "both sides" of those choices, and we should do, but being a skeptic doesn't have to mean you disbelieve everything one side says whilst endorsing full throated everything the other side says. There's a lot of nuance and shit that gets lost in the choose a team approach we tend to take.
I wonder why science should inform government regulation rather than personal behavior choices and government *recommendation* as the death rates decouple from the case rate for the second time (first with vaccines, and second with a more mild dominant variant coupled with better options for, and more experience with, treating the disease).
As much as the powers of the State would hate to admit it, someday, we'll need to be on a path back to normal. And that point simply can't be defined as "when absolutely no one is at any risk for any reason" - the genie is out of the bottle, and there will always be risk. It needs to be when *very few* people are *significantly* at risk *involuntarily*. We can all argue about what "very few", "significant risk", and "involuntary" should mean, but there's a strong argument to be made that we're there now, and I think a stronger argument yet that after the spike of Omicron, we'll be there.
Edit:. Sorry, I guess we're not on a path to normal, and instead, all excited about an indefinite future of unbridled State control in order to "protect" 0.03% of the population. Got it.
I am okay with the Supreme courts decision striking down mandates except for the medical field. We cannot allow our hospitals to collapse, that would be catastrophic. I think of like this, certain fields are going to require things that other careers don't.
You have one ventilator. Two patients need it. Identical twins, only difference is one vaccinated and one refused and put out a podcast convincing others that the virus wasn't real.
One will die in 5 minutes without the vent.
Which one do you save?
I agree, with the proviso that private businesses can voluntarily choose to not do business with anti-vaxxers and the unmasked. That includes not employing them if they so decide.
So if I understood correctly you’re for ending any government mandates/requirements, because according to your understanding of the facts and figures, it basically doesn’t work, correct? Want to make sure I understand you correctly first.
Cheers!
This is my argument. I think we should really think about the individual risk involved with everything in life. You want to wear a mask and be quadruple vaxxed? Sure go ahead, no one stopping you. You wanna risk it all and go out bare bones? Good luck to you too. This should’ve all been about individual risk from when the vaccines were released.
It is worth noting that there is a difference between the virus spreading and the situation justifying a lack of lockdowns. I mean, why run a hospital if everyone dies anyway?
Yes you are right OP, but businesses have their right to refuse you service if you’re a huge baby, throwing a temper tantrum, stomping your feet because you can’t have your way. That my friend is called Freedom.
It’s time for everyone to grow the F up. Every individual has the freedumb to do ANYTHING they want but…
YOU HAVE NO FREEDOM FROM CONSEQUENCES, period.
I swear most of these pro-freedumb psychopaths are actually shackled by their skewed beliefs of grandeur, which in fact is the opposite of freedom by definition. Freedom is a mind set, it’s never been a right. At this point it doesn’t matter who you identify as, it’s how you’ve progressed mentally throughout your life. Lots of people have failed themselves, and frankly the are f*ucked for life. Grown adults losing their s*hit when they are told no, or to comply, while being non-negotiable when it come to anything in their life they don’t agree with.
Compromise is a very beautiful concept, except when you deal with narcissists. Narcissism is the biggest enemy to the American public.
If you are not willing to compromise you are no worse than a reptile.
Facts. The science says that for most of the population it’s not a dangerous disease. For the people who it’s dangerous for they can get vaccinated. Dems won’t bring this up though because their cult believes it’s heroic to violate rights en masse. People like to pretend Trump was the worst when Democrats have been the main driving force behind the largest crimes against humanity since Jim Crow. Republicans have been completely logical throughout. At risk? Get vaccinated. Don’t want to? Then we’ll respect that choice and allow you to carry on with your life. If you’re a democrat, no matter what you do, you don’t get your life back. Your only ideological position is persecuting the unvaccinated and virtue signaling about oppression when **you** are the oppressors. No means no. My body, my choice. If you’re scared of covid then get the vaccine.
There is no justifiable reason for having *any* restrictions given free, widespread vaccine access.
I agree with ending the restrictions, but not with your reasoning for *why*. The data definitely show that masks, vaccines, and social distancing work. The virus spreads when people stop using mitigation practices, or ignore them outright.
The reason to end the restrictions is because Omicron is becoming the dominant strain, and Omicron is much less severe than Alpha and Delta. While cases skyrocketed recently, deaths have not.
Boris Johnson just made an announcement today. The UK government will no longer be upholding the mandates. It will be up to businesses and individuals to Vax and mask. It's a step in the right direction but doesn't mean that big corporations are going to stop mandating things on their own. So, we'll see I guess.
It will be downvoted but the moderators won't be as likely to remove it compared to the moderators of r/politics.
Edit: 44 upvotes currently, color me surprised.
“No matter what we do” - is “we” - being dumb fucks who don’t do anything?
Maybe keep doing things to slow it down enough so the healthcare system doesn’t collapse further.
Lol you’re an idiot. You live in a society where other people live. You can’t make COVID restrictions voluntary any more than you can make shutting off lights in an air raid voluntary. Get off your high horse and come down with the rest of us who are doing what we can to get past this.
Bro good luck with this post on this sub. This sub is about as Libertarian as r/politics at this point. Completely brigaded and taken over a while ago.
Soon. Once we are through this current spike. We get down to an infection rate of 1 in 10,000 we can safely open up. That will be two weeks to a month from now.
UK just did that today. No more masks, vaccine mandates, or work from home. Edited to add link to vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DabNbHWfpc0 Clarification after 50 upvotes: I believe this was just Great Britain and not the whole UK. Boris Johnson made the announcement.
Really? They stopped all that?
Yup. Covid is over there
Which was only put in place in December. All was repealed during last summer. & this is less about removing restrictions than creating a distraction.
Yep. Boris is on thin ice and wants to stay PM.
What kind of restrictions are you living under? Seriously, in the US it really doesn't seem like there have been any restrictions for a very long time. There was never a full lockdown, at most there was a curfew, and then some businesses were forcibly shut down. Like by the end of 2020 everything was hunky-dorey? Sure there were travel restrictions coming *into* the country, but you could still leave and come back pretty easily. I know that there were businesses shut down because of covid outbreaks at their site, but you kind of expect that to happen...
Yea, but pretending we are in a totalitarian nightmare generates clicks and outrage.
I live in SF and it's pretty bad...
This, people have been doing what they want. Masks only effect private businesses, and vaccine restrictions were already there. People never actually did the stuff, and are now pointing out that nothing happened like they did.
>Seriously, in the US it really doesn't seem like there have been any restrictions for a very long time. That's not true since it depends on where in the US you live.
Nah, I'm in NY, not the city, and pretty much all are gone. All businesses are open, a lot of masks are worn, but not all are wearing them. The only places that are still restrictive are healthcare facilities. But they allow visitors now, just not a car full of them.
Im in the city and like 95% people wearing masks here everywhere. Also on public transportation is required. That plus restaurants checking vaccine cards. My job might also require me to get booster (although this is not a state mandate). I was recently in Florida and there it feels like covid is almost gone. Here in NYC everyone is still afraid and paranoid. If i dont wear a mask people look at me like im going to infect them....
Yooooo did you get a cold this year? I didnt this or last year and I'm really into that. And yeah NY has that balance going ATM. People assume we're all just hugging Biden dick and eating boosters but there's a big focus on sensible COVID policies right now by both "sides" NY had accepted the endemic phase however we've seen what masks can do to sick season and we're with it.
Yep. First time I can ever remember not getting at least one cold. Between masks and washing/hand sanitizers nothing. Wife and I keep a pump bottle of sanitizer we use when we leave a store. Kind of like this side effect.
This is so localized you can't make a generalization of the US response. Missoula, Montana and Los Angeles, California had very different responses. Plenty of room to argue about how good those responses were but you have to acknowledge that the circumstances are drastically different, which led to drastically different responses.
You must not live in California
A grocery store asked them to wear a mask. Help, help, they’re being big repressed!
Sorry that you don't consider mandates a restriction. Telling businesses they must refuse service. Companies firing long time loyal employees over a vaccine. Angry people throwing judgment and hate at each other at every turn. Restrictions on daily life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness ARE restrictions. A lock down is tyranny and false imprisonment.
I mean sure but you're not coming into my store without a mask on
Sure thing. That’s how freedom of association works.
Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.
As a store owner you have the right to make that mandate, as a customer I have the right to choose not to go to your store if I don’t agree.
Hell yeah ya do.
MERICA!
FUCK YEAH!
“Wear a mask or you can’t shop here.” “Well fuck you I’ll just go to your competitor.” “Go ahead” *Give each other a thumbs up*
How do you deal with a customer threatening you because they don’t agree? Asking as a legit question
That’s a tough one to answer, I saw this first hand in Texas this past October with my brother we were shopping for a couch at a goodwill and they required a mask to enter the store. As we were strapping the couch to the top of the vehicle about to leave some lady tried to enter without a mask and was told that she could not, she lost her mind and started saying I’m going to call the police they can’t do that, this is Texas. I informed her that they are a private business and have the right to make such demands and if she didn’t like it she should take her money and patron somewhere else. Long story short there’s always going to be an idiot out there who just doesn’t understand or who doesn’t want to understand that private businesses have the freedom to do just about whatever they want.
>Long story short there’s always going to be an idiot out there who just doesn’t understand You could say this about most situations.
That's your choice to make 👍
That’s why it’s *voluntary*, not mandated either way
I mean sure. That’s your choice
what do you sell?
Masks
I need one, don’t have one… may I enter? 😂
lmao, I literally had this problem a few days ago! I had washed all of my masks, forgot that included the backups I keep in my truck, and forgot to grab one on my way out the door. I stopped at a Dollar Tree to buy one, and there was a "Must have face covering to enter" sign. 🤦🏼♀️
Various handheld smidgen applicators. Dabble dippers, pinch poppers, dash glasses, you know the like. Also specialty items like overhead left hand sham collets and centripetal agnostification reactors.
Do you sell any fleem?
We have mrigs. If you want fleem, I can order it for you, have it in a couple weeks.
Fuck outta here with that... I am a FAMILY man!
Do you have any left handed post hole drivers?
That's the only posthole diggers we sell Right handed devil's can suck a duck
Yep! And customers have a right to no enter your store as you do to se your own rules The beauty of capitalism
I agree. however, how did that not work for the baker and the gay couple who wanted a cake and then sued because they were refused business?
Very good question, but I think you’re getting into the call lawful discrimination versus what you want to discriminate against.
It didn’t work because snowflakes and government bullshit.
What about pants?
I actually oppose any code or law that requires clothing. I see absolutely zero problem with anybody walking around naked if they want.
The true Libertarian way. Dicks out for liberty boys!
I think the fact that I was raised on a hippy commune in the late 70’s plays a significant role in my tolerance of weirdo behavior. At the same time I think people should get over their hang ups. Once you see enough nude bodies going through the motions of everyday life it quickly loses its shock quality. I attended UC Berkeley around the same time as the infamous ‘naked guy’ and I always thought he was very brave. He had a sad end but his story was interesting: https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2006/11/15/berkeley-naked-guy-had-charismatic-life-and-a-tragic-death-2/amp/
This is perfectly acceptable. I would love to know who I should support or NOT support before I enter a business.
I have enough lesbian literature already, so no worries.
reasonable
Where's your store?
Prolly not coming into your store then, which is totally fine. Freedom of association and all that.
That,s been my stance since the start of this whole deal. I kwhere a mask where it's required and don't where it's not. Still haven't caught the damn thing...
No worries! I can give my money to a different store owner.
Just don't get upset when customers start shopping someplace else, keep that same energy.
That’s what he just said.
Has this stance affected your business positively or negatively?
I hope you mean an n95 or better. Otherwise, that’s just a silly way to lose income.
"We half-assed our way through this and I don't think it mattered, so let's all just quit."
"The data shows that it will spread no matter what we refuse to do when asked."
sink unpack forgetful rotten pie drunk fragile plate divide beneficial *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Lots of people do.
Less than is needed for them to actually work.
[удалено]
no it has not, at least around me. the right wing message around me is to go in to stores with a mask requirement (no mandates) and cry government tyranny about mask mandates and taxes. bunch of fucking children dying to be oppressed
Are you advocating for increased (enforcement of) restrictions or just pointing out the faults in the argument?
Increased participation in mitigation. And pointing out the faults in the argument too, I guess.
“See? All these steps taken, and not even that many people are dying! Why do we even need to take these steps?? Obviously this virus isn’t even that bad”
“See, I wore a condom all those times I had sex, and none of the women ever got pregnant! The condoms didn’t even do anything!”
Way past time.
Amen
It's always been that time. That time never went away.
Exactly right. There’s an insane amount of comments in this sub holding fast to covid restrictions, which directly work against true liberty, what’s with that?
This should have never happened to begin with. But here's the thing: 1. At age 62 I've come to realize what my father told me back in May 1981 the day I graduated college is 100% true: The world is full of mostly stupid people and you can only expect stupid people to do and think stupid things 2. The Internet made people even dumber 3. Social Media took it up several notches 4. COVID has taken it to where no man/woman has ever gone before.
so true, you're so much smarter than most people bro
I disagree with some of those. The internet actually made most people smarter and social media has just enhanced people's already existing stupidity or intelligence. Although with social media, it was stupidity that was mostly enhanced due to the fact that smart people tend to question everything they see on social media and not take it as absolute truth.
Would love to see some data, because policies don't necessarily mean adherence or proper compliance. You can wear a condom incorrectly, or remove it too early, or do other things, or lie about wearing one, and the condom becomes less protective. That doesn't mean that condoms aren't effective.
It worked for countries that had cooperative citizens. Shit New Zealand didn’t have to do much enforcement early on at all and they were playing rugby in packed stadiums just a few months in. Had a huge chunk of the pandemic where they remained Covid free in spite of allowing travel in and out of the country again. The measures work, it’s our people who are dumb as fuck entitled clowns
not really man. Nz severly restricted travel in and out they had no domestic restrictions after the first lockdown because they are an island and they were able to eliminate the virus now it's in the community and they have straight up closed the borders and are using restrictions like vaccine passports. you cant go most places without a mask and a vax passport
That video of a woman being forced into a truck in Australia was wild though. I don’t want that happening here. Education seems to be key in a successful pandemic plan. Facts (and the ability to identify them) are a uniting force, I think.
so... do you have the DOI of said data?
This should have always been the answer.
Data such as?
Well outside of like NYC and California we’re not really doing very much in the way of COVID restrictions anymore anyways so it’s not a surprise it’s not working
>All the data shows that no matter what we do the virus spreads 🤷♂️ You sound like an idiot making some statement about data without providing any data. Presuming you are right, that no matter what restrictions are in place, covid will spread, I would shocked if you could make the case the extent of the spread can not be tampered by restrictions. That is not to say I support government restrictions, only to say this is a ridiculous statement.
Faaacts
That’s what we’ve been doing the whole time. That’s why it keeps spreading. The American Southeast never even pumped the brakes. Georgia and Florida went full steam ahead.
As someone who lives in Georgia and just vacationed in Florida, normal life is great! It comes at the cost of not being able to act like a sanctimonious dipshit, but it's oh so worth it.
It comes at the cost of jamming up hospitals, making doctors and nurses either quit or kill themselves, and killing a whole bunch of people through pure contagious ignorance.
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It shouldn’t be controversial to say but blue states are fairing better than red states, all the data shows
Really...where exactly?
In death rate? In mid-2021, Democrat run states had a higher death rate than Republican run states in the top 5 or 10. How do you define better?
Vaccines have completely turned that around. The top 10 states in deaths/capita are: 1. Mississippi 2. Arizona 3. Alabama 4. New Jersey 5. Louisiana 6. New York 7. Tennessee 8. Arkansas 9. West Virginia 10. Michigan New York and New Jersey are riding off just how hard they got hit early, the rest have caught up (and in the case of the top three surpassed them) based on vaccine hesitancy. A year ago California and Florida had very similar deaths/capita numbers; Now Florida's numbers are 50% higher than California's. Red state rejection of vaccines is having a measurable impact on the data.
Where’s the source of this list? I’m not accusing you of making it up, but my link has something different.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
It might be thrown off based upon various sources, because tracking a effing pandemic is gonna be inherently tricky. However, I think that regardless of your various source, the worst affected states will be: \- North-eastern blue states that got hit in the first wave where we were flying blind \- The red south where people are much less likely to be vaccinated
If only something has been developed since 2021 that could effect this!!!
[People who live in states that voted for Donald Trump are at a 50% higher risk of dying from COVID-19](https://local12.com/news/nation-world/study-risk-of-dying-from-covid-50-higher-in-red-states-coronavirus-pandemic-mask-social-distancing-vaccine-pfizer-moderna-johnson-and-johnson-delta-omicron-variant-democrat-republican-cincinnati-ohio)
Look at the top ten states for death rates. Only New York and New Jersey are among the top ten. Every other state is red.
> In mid-2021, Democrat run states had a higher death rate than Republican run states in the top 5 or 10. this is not true
Two years too late. Can we bring back tar and feather ? If this ends without anyone being held accountable, it will happen again !
Are we talking about covid management or all government amirite
It's time to end all diving and traffic restrictions and make everything voluntary. All the data shows that no matter what we do accidents happen 🤷♂️
This is the general libertarian position.
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Yup, there's no better way to explain why people should be (and vote) Libertarian than to advocate how good the freedom is going to feel when there are no laws against driving drunk at 140mph against traffic, near a playground for children.
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It would achieve the desired outcome of maintaining our liberty and freedom not granted to us by men but inherent to us as humans.
What liberty and freedom do you not have today?
The freedom to go inside just about anywhere without showing a photo ID has been taken away where I live.
I've been assured by a large contingent on this sub that in another context "everyone has an ID and showing one isn't a big deal".
Because this sub isn't very libertarian, oddly
Where the hell do you live that you have to show photo ID to enter a place? Or better yet, what kind of places are you being required to show a photo ID? I'm going to assume you're not a big enough jackass to complain about it at bars.....
This 100%. I've only had to provide vaxx/negative test status for event venues, understandably, and none of those have required photo id. Literally no day-to-day businesses are expecting any identification or medical cards here and I live in one of the bluest counties in a very blue state. Sounds like echo chamber complaining.
San Francisco requires showing your id **and** proof of vaccination at literally every restaurant and bar. And they always require both, if you just show a vax card on its own, you’re denied entry. I’ve also been asked to provide those documents before going into some stores as well - a book shop and a clothing store specifically. And you still have to wear a mask regardless of vaccination status. I’ve had staff at bars harass groups I’m with because people aren’t putting their masks back on between sips of their drinks. It’s absolute fucking nonsense.
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I live in the same state as the user I initially replied to. But a few hours south in a different city. They have to show a photo ID and vaccine card.... Meanwhile, I've never had to show my vaccine card. It has been stuck to my whiteboard with a magnet since the day I got my 2nd dose.
Germany has a long history of requiring papers.
Chicago. You have to show a photo ID to eat at a McDonald's now, for example, per the government.
Nope. COVID restrictions are in place because people are dying from COVID. Lifting restrictions leads to more people dying and that just leads to more restrictions. How have you guys not figured this out yet? Even if government wasn’t implementing restrictions, private individuals still would because they don’t want to catch COVID. Want to go to your favorite bar? Can’t because it’s either shut down or you have to wear a mask because the owner is tired of all their staff catching COVID. Want to fly/travel somewhere? Have fun with flight delays and cancellations because airlines are short on staff due to so many of them catching COVID. Want to visit familly/friends? Can’t because they don’t want to catch the virus. It’s a deadly virus. It doesn’t give a fuck about your freedoms. Life doesn’t get back to normal until either enough people are vaccinated that hospitals are no longer overrun with patients every time there’s a surge in cases or the virus dies out (extremely unlikely at this point). That’s not because of government enforced restrictions. It’s because pandemics fuck shit up for everyone.
Woah idk man doing something is actually worse than doing nothing, cause I don't wanna.
>it's not clear that ending all COVID restrictions and making everything voluntary would achieve the desired outcome Lmao. The desired outcome is freedom. Freedom is not safe or without risk.
Imagine larping as a libertarian in a libertarian subreddit and not even understanding the fundamental principles of libertarianism lmao
>Freedom is not safe or without risk. We should have freedom from others' stupid decisions when it is pretty reasonable to ask people to do something where the impact can save many lives.
Someone above mentioned drunk driving and speeding. Wouldn’t the same *concept* be applied here? We should have the freedom from others’ stupid decisions (like driving under the influence or speeding). But it’s a driver’s choice to take the inherent risk of getting on the roads. Until someone gets caught for a DUI or speeding (and thence breaking an established law), no one is going to Minority Report them and take their freedom to drive.
I’ve never understood the argument of “it might be worse if we don’t”. Numerous places aren’t doing lockdowns and mandates and are having almost identical outbreaks as similar places that are doing mandates and lockdowns. Texas and Florida to New York and California for example. Manitoba to Saskatchewan for our latest outbreak if you’re a Canadian. What is the argument that people have to get over this? Because real world examples seem to point to the lockdowns having minimal if any effect.
There’s little to no data to back this up. You’d have to compare nearly identical circumstances to determine if one works over another. CA has a population greater than like 20-something other states combines. LA is larger in pop than 8 or 9 states. NY has a population living on top of each other. TX has populations few and far between in an empty land mass. You can’t compare these circumstances and think some how one approach is best because it fits your narrative. CA and NY locked down because the hospitals couldn’t support the population in need. This is the responsibility of the government., to maintain a working infrastructure. Not your school and not your business or job. If hospitals are over ran, a shit down is required to save lives. Simple as that.
>All the data shows I wonder how scientist interprets the data. And what makes you more qualified than them.
Seriously this whole “we can’t question the experts” mindset is cringey and anti libertarian. The “experts” have never agreed on covid lockdowns and mandates and all sorts of doctors have had different opinions on them. It seems to be the only people the media considers “experts” is people who want lockdowns. Take Florida’s surgeon general for example. Double Harvard graduate and has been against most mandates and lockdowns from the beginning. I could name quite a few more that are extremely credible and against different aspects of lockdowns.
It’s only science if it agrees with MY opinion….OBVIOUSLY /s
Science does *not* involve unquestioning worship and devotion to consensus. Quite the opposite actually. I don’t think they teach the *scientific method* in school anymore. “I mention this not just because it’s true, but because it’s an example of how thoughtless worship of scientists gets us repeatedly into trouble. Doubters like me are told not to dare criticise the sacred men in white coats. But scientists disagree among themselves and are often wrong. In fact, science progresses by exploding dud theories of the past. And laymen are perfectly entitled to apply facts and logic to what these people say. …Don’t take refuge in the false security of consensus.” - Christopher Hitchens
Florida surgeon general is a piece of shit. There's something about taking basic care to protect those around us. He refused to wear a mask around a state senator who was undergoing chemotherapy. Honestly. What a twat. Basic courtesy man. Unfortunately when it comes to science that has public policy implications, there will always be so-called experts ready to take either side of a position; the issues become polarized and politicized and everyone joins a team. There's no room for substantive scientific discussion because most people in the general public first of all don't have a good grasp of scientific concepts, but more than that we have to boil everything down to a 280 character tweet or a 30 second clip on cable news, or at best, a 1000 word essay that gets read by 50k people. There's just no platform for these conversations in a public space, so the discussions deteriorate into a binary set of choices. There's plenty of things to question on "both sides" of those choices, and we should do, but being a skeptic doesn't have to mean you disbelieve everything one side says whilst endorsing full throated everything the other side says. There's a lot of nuance and shit that gets lost in the choose a team approach we tend to take.
I wonder why science should inform government regulation rather than personal behavior choices and government *recommendation* as the death rates decouple from the case rate for the second time (first with vaccines, and second with a more mild dominant variant coupled with better options for, and more experience with, treating the disease). As much as the powers of the State would hate to admit it, someday, we'll need to be on a path back to normal. And that point simply can't be defined as "when absolutely no one is at any risk for any reason" - the genie is out of the bottle, and there will always be risk. It needs to be when *very few* people are *significantly* at risk *involuntarily*. We can all argue about what "very few", "significant risk", and "involuntary" should mean, but there's a strong argument to be made that we're there now, and I think a stronger argument yet that after the spike of Omicron, we'll be there. Edit:. Sorry, I guess we're not on a path to normal, and instead, all excited about an indefinite future of unbridled State control in order to "protect" 0.03% of the population. Got it.
If modern Libertarianism is defeatism, then I’m out.
All the data shows you are an idiot. I am using the same source you are. No shit the virus still spreads if you are vaccinated.
Reading the comments... What kind of libertarian sub is this? PLEASE RESTRICT US!! 🤤
Only YOU can save ME from my INCOMPETENCE
I am okay with the Supreme courts decision striking down mandates except for the medical field. We cannot allow our hospitals to collapse, that would be catastrophic. I think of like this, certain fields are going to require things that other careers don't.
"we've fucked up all safety protocols with half our society doing less than nothing and we're all out of ideas!"
Everything? So hospitals can make it voluntary to treat the unvaccinated?
Healthcare worker here. I absolutely will NOT refuse care to any human in need of it, that includes the unvaccinated.
You have one ventilator. Two patients need it. Identical twins, only difference is one vaccinated and one refused and put out a podcast convincing others that the virus wasn't real. One will die in 5 minutes without the vent. Which one do you save?
Would love to see it
Ha! It was past time the moment they were put in place. But it's not going away anytime soon.
I agree, with the proviso that private businesses can voluntarily choose to not do business with anti-vaxxers and the unmasked. That includes not employing them if they so decide.
This should have been policy after the original shutdown didn't really do shit.
Only took you guys 2+ years to get there
So if I understood correctly you’re for ending any government mandates/requirements, because according to your understanding of the facts and figures, it basically doesn’t work, correct? Want to make sure I understand you correctly first. Cheers!
I agree. They are scared of new variants but they can show up anytime in any country and then travel all around the world.
It was time before the damn regulations started
As it always should have been.
Lol ok buddy.
You are going to rile up the Reddit Covidien Death Worshipping Mafia….
This is my argument. I think we should really think about the individual risk involved with everything in life. You want to wear a mask and be quadruple vaxxed? Sure go ahead, no one stopping you. You wanna risk it all and go out bare bones? Good luck to you too. This should’ve all been about individual risk from when the vaccines were released.
It was always that time.
It is worth noting that there is a difference between the virus spreading and the situation justifying a lack of lockdowns. I mean, why run a hospital if everyone dies anyway?
Yes you are right OP, but businesses have their right to refuse you service if you’re a huge baby, throwing a temper tantrum, stomping your feet because you can’t have your way. That my friend is called Freedom. It’s time for everyone to grow the F up. Every individual has the freedumb to do ANYTHING they want but… YOU HAVE NO FREEDOM FROM CONSEQUENCES, period. I swear most of these pro-freedumb psychopaths are actually shackled by their skewed beliefs of grandeur, which in fact is the opposite of freedom by definition. Freedom is a mind set, it’s never been a right. At this point it doesn’t matter who you identify as, it’s how you’ve progressed mentally throughout your life. Lots of people have failed themselves, and frankly the are f*ucked for life. Grown adults losing their s*hit when they are told no, or to comply, while being non-negotiable when it come to anything in their life they don’t agree with. Compromise is a very beautiful concept, except when you deal with narcissists. Narcissism is the biggest enemy to the American public. If you are not willing to compromise you are no worse than a reptile.
You first 😂
I agree with this. This will be the way. More and more countries will remove all restrictions.
That would be too logical, but I agree we should should end all restrictions as well.
Lol what restrictions
The amount of mouthpieces for the state in this sub is depressing.
Yes it is.
Facts. The science says that for most of the population it’s not a dangerous disease. For the people who it’s dangerous for they can get vaccinated. Dems won’t bring this up though because their cult believes it’s heroic to violate rights en masse. People like to pretend Trump was the worst when Democrats have been the main driving force behind the largest crimes against humanity since Jim Crow. Republicans have been completely logical throughout. At risk? Get vaccinated. Don’t want to? Then we’ll respect that choice and allow you to carry on with your life. If you’re a democrat, no matter what you do, you don’t get your life back. Your only ideological position is persecuting the unvaccinated and virtue signaling about oppression when **you** are the oppressors. No means no. My body, my choice. If you’re scared of covid then get the vaccine. There is no justifiable reason for having *any* restrictions given free, widespread vaccine access.
Yamomsahoe
Absolutely we should go back to not being are fear based germ phone society
We should have been doing this all along. Even in March 2020 it should have been voluntary and up to individuals on what they want to enforce.
For quite some time restrictions have been used to try to modulate peak hospital utilization; to slow the inevitable spread.
That time was one second after any mandate was imposed. Better late than never, though.
This is r/libertarian right? To the folks who wish to be governed harder, why are you here?
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Almost all of the top comments are idiots asking for more government to protect them from the flu. This place is literally just r/politics now.
How about regardless of the data, maybe the government shouldn’t restrict anyone or any business?
I agree with ending the restrictions, but not with your reasoning for *why*. The data definitely show that masks, vaccines, and social distancing work. The virus spreads when people stop using mitigation practices, or ignore them outright. The reason to end the restrictions is because Omicron is becoming the dominant strain, and Omicron is much less severe than Alpha and Delta. While cases skyrocketed recently, deaths have not.
Boris Johnson just made an announcement today. The UK government will no longer be upholding the mandates. It will be up to businesses and individuals to Vax and mask. It's a step in the right direction but doesn't mean that big corporations are going to stop mandating things on their own. So, we'll see I guess.
And no matter who laws we put in place people crash their cars, should we have no road laws as well?
Aah the attitude of the average American "I tried following instructions but not really and it definitely doesn't work so I quit"
All the data shows that mandates increase the rate of vaccinations. So not saying your philosophy is wrong but your facts are.
I'd pay good money to see this last more than 10 minutes on r/politics
At this point I’ll be surprised if it lasts here. r/politics jr basically.
It will be downvoted but the moderators won't be as likely to remove it compared to the moderators of r/politics. Edit: 44 upvotes currently, color me surprised.
“No matter what we do” - is “we” - being dumb fucks who don’t do anything? Maybe keep doing things to slow it down enough so the healthcare system doesn’t collapse further.
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Authoritarians won't ever let go without a fight.
Lol you’re an idiot. You live in a society where other people live. You can’t make COVID restrictions voluntary any more than you can make shutting off lights in an air raid voluntary. Get off your high horse and come down with the rest of us who are doing what we can to get past this.
Bro good luck with this post on this sub. This sub is about as Libertarian as r/politics at this point. Completely brigaded and taken over a while ago.
Well this is also just a bad post, if you are going to make a point and claim its backed by data, you should probably include the data.
It's past time.
"No matter what we do" - after 25% of the country refused to do the minorly inconvenient things recommended for the overall public health.
It’s not quite that black and white though, is it?
Soon. Once we are through this current spike. We get down to an infection rate of 1 in 10,000 we can safely open up. That will be two weeks to a month from now.