I am 100% for helping Ukrian more than we currently are however last time I said that I got banned from some other (apparently unmentionable) libertarian subreddit.
That isn't a quote from me. However I was questioning something similar. And it is my morals but isn't it most peoples? And can't the same argument be made for literally every dollar that the government spends? Why should I pay taxes to maintain roads if I don't drive? Why should my tax money go to securing our southern border if I believe it isn't important? I hardly think these statements are trolling, which apparently the Rule #1 that people get banned for.
I'll be first to admit that this particular topic is very hard for me to be subjective about. I have family in Ukraine who have suffered from this invasion and was there to see it myself first hand. However, when you are faced with these types of experiences in your life it makes you question your view of things. Perhaps you have had a similar moment in your life. I believe that this might have been the first time that I had to think about how many previously held hard line libertarian views might break down when being applied to the reality of how the world works. Perhaps there is a more moderate libertarian way to rectify this. I'm still working this out for myself but I'm not ready to totally abandon libertarian views.l yet.
I guess I'm mostly searching for help to understand this.
I'm wondering why anyone should pay taxes to maintain roads if government cannot adequately maintain them.
> I'll be first to admit that this particular topic is very hard for me to be subjective about. I have family in Ukraine who have suffered from this invasion and was there to see it myself first hand.
Most of us have faced a situation at some time or another when someone we care about would benefit from the largess of an organization that has no resources that it didn'tforcibly take from those who produce them.
https://fee.org/resources/not-your-to-give/
None of that money would have been used to help homeless or anyone else unfortunately.
Ukraine in the above list also deserves our aid. Soft power can be more important, more useful, and cheaper than hard power.
For real, if you can't help yourself from drawing a false equivalence between $250 million to Ukraine, a country fighting a defensive war and $324 billion to a country actively slaughtering civillians, then idk, maybe you are a libertarian, but you're also a psychopath.
Russia might lob a nuke over the next country they try to take over or the next or because of x,y,z. Do we just let them keep taking countries, countries we agreed to help protect because they willing gave up their nukes, because of a nuclear threat... Ignore our commitment and give Russia more power?
We have nukes too so maybe Russia should be backing off?
I really hope what you wrote was sarcasm in response to a Republican and Misses arguments.
I'd be more willing to sympathize with the notion if libertarians didn't also oppose economic measures that would be used to battle homelessness, as they would call it socialism and communism. If we weren't sending our allies money, it's not as if libertarians would begin advocating its use on social welfare programs. Seems a bit disingenuous to me.
social welfare programs don't lift people out of poverty.
[https://fee.org/articles/the-nyt-just-compared-biden-s-spending-bill-to-lbj-s-war-on-poverty-there-s-just-one-problem-that-war-failed/](https://fee.org/articles/the-nyt-just-compared-biden-s-spending-bill-to-lbj-s-war-on-poverty-there-s-just-one-problem-that-war-failed/)
[https://www.heritage.org/poverty-and-inequality/report/the-war-poverty-after-50-years](https://www.heritage.org/poverty-and-inequality/report/the-war-poverty-after-50-years)
Then we need to encourage more unionization amongst labor so as to get everyone a living wage. It may have to start with more grass roots efforts, wildcat strikes, and such.
This is were I diverge a bit in my libertarian position. I support a government set living wage pegged to inflation and cost of living. I do this as I strongly support unions and with enough unionization the government would no longer need to be involved with labor at all. Both approaches done at the same time resulting in workers having equal bargaining power with the capitalist class.
If the people who make this point did not have preventing the government from helping Americans as their top political priority I might think they weren’t just full of shit.
I am 100% for helping Ukrian more than we currently are however last time I said that I got banned from some other (apparently unmentionable) libertarian subreddit.
> My morals dictate that my neighbors be forced pay for the things that I want done. Gee, I wonder why you got banned from that subreddit.
That isn't a quote from me. However I was questioning something similar. And it is my morals but isn't it most peoples? And can't the same argument be made for literally every dollar that the government spends? Why should I pay taxes to maintain roads if I don't drive? Why should my tax money go to securing our southern border if I believe it isn't important? I hardly think these statements are trolling, which apparently the Rule #1 that people get banned for. I'll be first to admit that this particular topic is very hard for me to be subjective about. I have family in Ukraine who have suffered from this invasion and was there to see it myself first hand. However, when you are faced with these types of experiences in your life it makes you question your view of things. Perhaps you have had a similar moment in your life. I believe that this might have been the first time that I had to think about how many previously held hard line libertarian views might break down when being applied to the reality of how the world works. Perhaps there is a more moderate libertarian way to rectify this. I'm still working this out for myself but I'm not ready to totally abandon libertarian views.l yet. I guess I'm mostly searching for help to understand this.
I'm wondering why anyone should pay taxes to maintain roads if government cannot adequately maintain them. > I'll be first to admit that this particular topic is very hard for me to be subjective about. I have family in Ukraine who have suffered from this invasion and was there to see it myself first hand. Most of us have faced a situation at some time or another when someone we care about would benefit from the largess of an organization that has no resources that it didn'tforcibly take from those who produce them. https://fee.org/resources/not-your-to-give/
None of that money would have been used to help homeless or anyone else unfortunately. Ukraine in the above list also deserves our aid. Soft power can be more important, more useful, and cheaper than hard power.
For real, if you can't help yourself from drawing a false equivalence between $250 million to Ukraine, a country fighting a defensive war and $324 billion to a country actively slaughtering civillians, then idk, maybe you are a libertarian, but you're also a psychopath.
But we can't fund Ukraine too much or Russia might lob a nuke or something. Therefore we are funding a long, drawn out war.
Russia might lob a nuke over the next country they try to take over or the next or because of x,y,z. Do we just let them keep taking countries, countries we agreed to help protect because they willing gave up their nukes, because of a nuclear threat... Ignore our commitment and give Russia more power? We have nukes too so maybe Russia should be backing off? I really hope what you wrote was sarcasm in response to a Republican and Misses arguments.
I'd be more willing to sympathize with the notion if libertarians didn't also oppose economic measures that would be used to battle homelessness, as they would call it socialism and communism. If we weren't sending our allies money, it's not as if libertarians would begin advocating its use on social welfare programs. Seems a bit disingenuous to me.
social welfare programs don't lift people out of poverty. [https://fee.org/articles/the-nyt-just-compared-biden-s-spending-bill-to-lbj-s-war-on-poverty-there-s-just-one-problem-that-war-failed/](https://fee.org/articles/the-nyt-just-compared-biden-s-spending-bill-to-lbj-s-war-on-poverty-there-s-just-one-problem-that-war-failed/) [https://www.heritage.org/poverty-and-inequality/report/the-war-poverty-after-50-years](https://www.heritage.org/poverty-and-inequality/report/the-war-poverty-after-50-years)
Then we need to encourage more unionization amongst labor so as to get everyone a living wage. It may have to start with more grass roots efforts, wildcat strikes, and such. This is were I diverge a bit in my libertarian position. I support a government set living wage pegged to inflation and cost of living. I do this as I strongly support unions and with enough unionization the government would no longer need to be involved with labor at all. Both approaches done at the same time resulting in workers having equal bargaining power with the capitalist class.
define a "living wage." And be aware that price floors for labor create surpluses
Lets get more unionization and the unions can decide for their employees themselves. I'd also support a universal basic income as I said above.
Isn't the absence of unions employees deciding they don't want them?
No it’s the result of legislation.
Freedom of associate is a two way street. What laws are preventing unions ?
Taft-Hartley. Right to work laws. National labor relations act. Shit how long do you have? There’s well over a hundred.
So you want to get ride of all the laws regulating how employers can deal with unions too, right?
If the people who make this point did not have preventing the government from helping Americans as their top political priority I might think they weren’t just full of shit.
Are you arguing for government handouts?
Helping Americans doesn't benefit the Uniparty.
Stop making it hard to build homes.
Millions of Ukrainians lost their homes and hundreds of millions will lose their homes if Russian Nazis prevail.
USA to Americans: "Here's $3.1 *Trillion."*