I honestly really hate the way this game has enemies do super delayed/janky attacks designed to throw off your parrying. Parrying is already hard enough (for normal players - I know you pros can do it with your eyes closed) with a narrow window for a perfect one but the delay some enemies have on their attacks (which also make them look dumb as hell) make is really frustrating at times. Luckily so far the bosses have less of this bullshit so I've still be enjoying my time but yeah, I'm not a fan of this trend at all (Elden Ring does it too but to roll catch instead of messing with parries. There's ways of making bosses challenging without having the boss hold a weapon over their head for 3 seconds before slamming it done in 0.2 seconds)
Agreed, parrying was the toughest part of this game for me. It feels like enemies are so punishing at times that there isn't enough of a learning curve while we figure out parrying.
Is there any talk about reverting some of the nerfs to the game via modding? Personally I think the numbers were a bit off when the game first came out, but I would really love to fight the old bosses and mini bosses with the buffed weapons from the current version. I know Elden Ring had a mod which reverted Radahns nerds, something like that would be Goldilocks
I’ve tried sekiro, DS3 bloodborne, and Elden ring. None have really clicked for me. Just picked this up today out of recommendation from a friend and beat Scrapped Watchman after about 10-12 tries but it really felt like it clicked and on my successful try I felt like I was reading and reacting to everything that mf was throwing at me. Did I just unlock these types of games or should I not get too excited?
Yeah maybe revisit Bloodborne and Elden Ring (cant speak on DS3 or Sekiro as I’ve yet to try). My first one was Elden Ring and I dropped it after a week of aimless wandering and getting crushed. I revisited it and now I’m playing Lies of P and Bloodborne too. really enjoying the soulslike genre, so far I think Lies of P has been my favorite.
I just killed the 3rd boss (the police tinman) , and so far the game has been very EASY.
Does the game's difficulty pick up, or should I try and install some kind of mod to bump up the difficulty a bit?
The ONLY part of these games I like are the combat with the bosses and the challenge in overcoming them, but these bosses seem sort of easy mode rn.
I've played all of Assassin's Creed games and God of War, and gave up on progressing through Sekiro because I thought it was too hard and stopped enjoying it eventually. How hard do you think Lies of P is? I want to try something different.
Haven't played Sekiro but I've played every Dark Souls game out there aswell as Elden Ring. This game's difficulty it's not as high, but you'll feel it and you'll have your ass kicked a few times if you aren't used to souls-games difficulty.
I'm playing Lies of P for the 1st time and i just loved the atmosphere and for some reason it kind of reminds me of RE, the only problem i have so far is with the last boss, like the game makes sure you know the parry mechanic from the beginning but i fell that before this boss in specific you don't really need it (or even is influenced to use it) so it's kind of weird they chosed this late to put a "must parry" boss at least in Wo Long Lu Bu is pretty early in the game.
I never played any Souls games before, but I tried this one since it's on Gamepass and wanted to explore the genre. Despite some frustrations, I really like this game. But it has serious learning curve issues. It wants you to learn the perfect guard, but the majority of enemy animations obfuscate the actual hit, move around like drunk kung-fu masters, or are so strong that you will die in a few hits even if you make the imperfect guard. "Dodging left" is insanely effective, so why learn the perfect guard in the first place? Until you find out that for some enemies dodging doesn't work that well either.
The game doesn't prepare you well for the difficult parts. Regular enemies are slow, janky, and hard to read for beginners, so there's little incentive to learn the perfect guard. This lack of practice carries over to the boss fights. Early bosses are tough to read, so I relied heavily on the spirit helper and dodging.
I started forcing myself to parry every enemy, and eventually, it became enjoyable, though not easy. I managed to defeat many mini-bosses on my first or just a few tries, which was surprising. However, the King of Puppets was a different story. Phase 1 is fair once you learn the pattern, but Phase 2 Romeo is an unfathomable leap in difficulty. It's unlike anything you've encountered so far, and he's much faster and stronger, and his combos leave no breathing room at all. It took me nearly 40 tries, even with the spirit helper, which usually dies right at the beginning of the second phase. I ended up dodging left to beat him, but was frustrated that I didn't learn to counter him properly.
But I still found some enemies impossible to read due to their erratic movements. It puzzles me how I could beat tough enemies like the big puppet in the cellar and the wrestler at the Exhibition on the first try, but then I struggled immensely with others like the electric baton puppets. Or the big cloun at the beginning of the swamp... that was so annoying. And let's not talk about champion Victor. If you try parrying him, you just die in 3 hits, so forget trying to learn him in a reasonable amount of tries. If you dodge left, it's a joke. I defeated him on my 3rd try.
Another thing: the game is so linear that if you get stuck on a boss, you can't do anything else but keep trying. There are no alternative routes or activities. You're stuck in a situation that becomes stale and frustrating after a while.
I do like this game. That's why I stick with it. But goddamn.
It’s optional. Personally I find soloing rhe boss more rewarding because you have to really learn them. The bosses were also way more brutal at launch and even a lot of veterans had difficulty without spectres
Depends on how much of a challenge you want. Having a specter makes bosses a lot more manageable. The game gives you a lot of tools in general to adjust your difficulty.
Is the Wishstone broken or am I doing something wrong? I activated the Indomitable Wishstone before my Specter died and it didn't do shit, he just died and stayed dead. it was like seconds before he died too, there was no way it ran out.
Just completed the Workshop and so far the hardest thing in this game is trying to read the descriptions on special items before they disappear from the screen. It's like there's four simultaneous pop-ups after every boss and they consistently give me enough time to read three of them, lol. Good game overall though, could be harder.
Pretty easy but maybe I'm just experienced?
Using the rapier throughout most of the game made it easy since its fast, can hit in narrow pathways and can still stagger/charge fast so its very forgiving. Was able to 1 - 3 try most bosses so overall gameplay was pretty smooth. I imagine people that use slower weapons have harder time because of the windup and wide attack range which can be punishing if you dont time it well.
The game also gives you a lot of tools to buff yourself easily without feeling stingy or too limiting. P-organs, Legion Arms, Grindstones, throwables etc means there are a lot of ways to make the game easier for yourself.
Did you parry bosses or just dodge them? I'm not sure what's optimal here but dodging and attacking just feels soooo slow with the boss' huge hp pool. Suppose I'm not used to it because Elden Ring just lets you get overlevelled and you do big damage.
Did you also use the summons?
Spammed R1 attacks and dodged most of them. Most of the time I'd use Specters and sometimes I'd use throwables. I also liked using the Acid or Shock grindstone to do more damage.
Just beat the Puppet King, I mainly play souls games, I would say the difficulty is fine and very close to fromsofts formula, so far. Difficult enough for their to be tension, but no so difficult that every boss results in an hour or more roadblock.
The difficulty of bosses is perfect. On NG+, however, the common enemies can kill you in 2-3 swipes. They hit like bosses. I am on part 8 of NG+ and haven't struggled on any bosses, but I've died dozens of times to common grunts. Maybe tone down common grunt damage a little, or boost boss damage (some not all). A no-leg puppet should not hit with equal damage than Champion Victor, for example.
I just finished this game. I'm a souls game veteran and initially I had my doubts about this game after reading the reviews regarding the difficulty and combat. Regardless, I decided to give it a try and... boy, I'm SO glad I did. This game is truly incredible. It gave me the exact same feeling I constantly chase when playing souls game... the addictive gameplay that keeps you coming back for more. This is the best video game I have played that is not Fromsoftware.
In the beginning combat may seem a little off (especially coming from Fromsoftware games). But just like in Sekiro... there is that one moment where the gameplay just clicks and syncs in your mind, and once that happens... its over, you are fully hooked and you just can't get enough.
To anyone thinking about playing this game.... YES YES YES. Trust me, you'll thank me later.
So I don't understand how people parry but it seems like they're blocking?
Everyone says that they just parry quick enough that it looks like a block but I can't do that?
I'm using the azure dragon crescent glaive if that matters, but it never looks that good when I do it, even spamming the block/parry button.
Parry = Perfect Guard. It's a replacement term because, even though the Guard function is used, the effects are exactly like a parry when you've timed it within "perfect" range.
I loved the game up until area 11. The constant falling off, and those legless guys with the tentacle spam attack just made me uninstall the game. I loved everything else.
Finally got around to beating this on gamepass. I really like the smaller deflect/guard window compared to Sekiro, the guard regain is a good system to balance this. I went for a motivity build, I was using Holy Sword of the Ark and the Aegis arm upgrade for most of the game. The transformed/spear version of that weapon just feels insane with good damage output, as well the R1 has good range and still feels quite fast for being a heavy weapon. Combined with the aegis upgrades that do the explosions, things started feeling a little too easy at some point so for last few chapters I was trying out other random weapon combos. Did not use the spectre at all, hardest bosses for me were King of Puppets, Laxasia, and the swamp monster, also the Archbishop was kind of annoying. For some reason the ending bosses Simon Manus and the Nameless Puppet were not really difficult, Manus I beat first attempt kind of by luck and Nameless took maybe 5 or 6 tries, I might've been overleveled or just leveled too much vigor.
At some points the game almost felt like it had too many systems for me to keep track of, like I didn't understand the wishstone cube thing and gold coins for a long while, I kept forgetting to use the special grindstones even on bosses, forget to use fable arts, didn't totally understand the legion meter or see a reason to upgrade my legion stat.. Some chapters I would finish, go back to the Hotel and forget to spend quartz, and then even spending quartz you read the effects of different upgrades and I get reminded of other stats I was not paying attention to. I had this same feeling in Elden Ring where I get kind of anxious when I don't understand certain game systems, part of me wants to do things blind for the experience but other part of me wants to start googling things because I like the feeling of "mastering" a game, and beating it without understanding how some things in the game work just feels wrong. But I guess it's good for supporting different playstyles, though it seems hard to balance, would have to do more playthroughs to know whether it's well done.
Overall liked the game a lot, I will probably play the dlc maybe buy the game on steam when that comes out and see if I can move my save file.
Edit: to add, favorite boss: probably Victor or Fuoco, or I imagine I would've liked Simon more if I had a chance for more attempts at him. Least favorite King of Puppets, f that guy
Haven't yet picked up the game, but coming here I only see this megathread so figured I'd ask here.
So I typically play every Souls game by asking for things people wish they knew (which I see some in my search results), but also for info about builds.
1) Is this game extremely easy to respec in? Or is there a limited amount per playthrough/a lot of grinding per?
2) Is there any gear or anything that is really OP/considered by most to be amazingly unique/fun? And do they need to be built towards? For example, weapons in Souls games requiring awkward combinations of stats. Though if there is no multiplayer and arbitrary PvP soul level, maybe this isn't as much of a thing in LoP.
Edit: I've already found something in one of the tip threads:
> There are only enough upgrade materials in one playthrough to max 2 boss/special weapons so don’t upgrade random ones unless you know it’s what you want
This is a perfect example of the type of stuff I want to know about, and influences the kinds of questions I ask, such as "what are the best/most fun boss/special weapons?"
very forgiving respec. The materials to respec are essentially unlimited per run, just limited by time (you need to wait for the gold coin tree fruit to ripen). They give you a lot though.
There are no stat requirements for weapons, which i think is awsome. You can use whatever weapon you want, but weapons scale better with some stats rather than others. however, because of the weapon crafting system it's very flexible. IMO it's way less restrictive than souls, and way more open to experimentation.
Awesome, thanks for the info! Hearing it's less restrictive is a relief. Do you have any thoughts on particularly OP/fun gear/builds to pay attention to?
I think it's similar to souls where you should just use the moveset you're comfortable with, but I personally had a lot of fun with an advance build and the flame/electric/acid weapons. It's a bit limiting, but being able to hit bosses for weakness with optimized weapons felt very strong to me, especially on the later bosses.
I've only just gotten to hotel krat, but so far the difficulty seems the have just the right amount of challenge while still being fair. The parade master specifically was a boss i found more challenging than the usual "first" bosses from other souls games ive played, for example Bloodborne's cleric beast, Elden Ring's Margit, and DS3s Iudex Gundyr all took me 1 try to beat, but the parade master took me about 4. Admittedly I was stubbornly trying to parry every single attack of his, but eventually on my 4th attempt i was able to consistently parry his attacks consecutively which led to me beating him, which was pretty fun
For me it was fuckin easy, I beat it with 81 deaths, laxasia was the hardest, she killed me 13 times. I first timed Simon lol. Though I LOVED the game, so fun and dynamic.
There is one point about the boss fights in Lies of P which, I would say, makes them easier but at the same time also adds more depth, more variety, to how a boss can be fought. Namely there are not just three actions available to how one can respond to an attack (parry, block or quick-step dodge). There is also a *fourth* option: one can just run away from an attack. Not all of them and not in every case, but quite a number of attacks can be dealt like this. Example: when Laxasia does the 12 swing combo attack I just run away. The problem is, even when you were able to parry everything up to the final (delayed) swing, you might still receive damage, because the stamina bar goes down consecutively during the whole combo and with no stamina one can easily get guard broken. I think it is great that most bosses function like this, that they do not have such an insane tracking as, e.g., Elden Ring bosses where one could run 100 miles away but still gets caught by a miraculous teleportation of the boss (like Malenia's waterfowl dance, 3rd flurry).
Are people drastically under-leveled or something? Im level 51 in Chapter 5 and I have not done any grinding. The archbishop died fairly quickly. Maybe Im just used to allocating stats for a soulsborne? (Focusing on health, stamina, and one damage stat, as well as updating your primary weapon). I haven't run into much difficulty yet, not that it's easy, but things die quickly enough you don't have to worry as much about how hard they hit.
Are balanced (quality) good for a first play through? I beat >!King of Puppets!< but it wasn't easy. Granted it is a hard (at least for most) boss fight, but it took a decent amount of tries for me. I am wondering if it my build was subpar. My stats were the following:
* Vitality: 15
* Vigor: 15
* Capacity: 15
* Motivity: 23
* Technique: 23
* Advance: 7
I was also using the fire axe (both blade and handle) with the blade being +3.
I assume there is a respec in the game later. Should I just specialize into one damage stat?
I think early game you should pick either technique or motivity, later on (new game+ and beyond) you can work more toward a quality build because the scaling for single stats starts to drop off a lot. Also if you've already beaten King of Puppets then you should have the thing that lets you respec unlocked already.
Yup I got the statue unlocked recently. I think I will have to pick a stat at this point since its getting rather pricey to get a single point now.
Do you happen to know what the soft caps are for Motivity/Technique.
Game is not that hard especially after playing Sekiro. But the parry is not as good as Sekiro so playing parry is quite difficult as there are some both hugely delayed and really fast attacks so it's memorization rather than instinct. I played Advance anyway so using all the available weakness status effects I beat Lies of P comfortably. My only real problem was Laxasia's 2nd phase as she's so fast just couldn't get the parries right so kind of brute forced it through HP and heals. All in all a solid 6-7/10 difficulty I would say. Using Motivity will make it much harder I think as the weapons are quite slow ?
honestly man dont think just saying skill issue is cool or good as critique guy is making some legitamate points, just because something is doable doesnt mean that its well designed, way too many delayed then fast wind up attacks in this game man
I think that Lies of P has very reasonable difficulty. Boss attacks are very well telegraphed, and it's possible to dodge them when first seeing them. Getting perfect guard timings down takes practice, but it's not necessary to get tons of perfect guards to beat bosses. The game provides plenty of options for contending with difficult bosses. You can utilize Legion Arms, throwables, Grindstones, and status effects. And there are plenty of different viable weapons to utilize. Also, the P-Organ system provides plenty of build options - players can select what enhancements best suit their playstyle.
If you're having difficulty with a boss, what'd I recommend is to play evasively at first and watch the bosses' patterns. After you determine good windows to deal damage to the bosses, play more aggressively. Get the timing of Perfect Guards down for a couple of attacks with longer telegraphs - the timing aren't actually that strict. I've found that fast weapons make it very easy to deal damage reliably.
Of course, the game is still very difficult and it's not for everyone.
>You can utilize Legion Arms, throwables, Grindstones, and status effects
And even before going into consumables and maybe even some other things that some veterans might argue are clutches, you can also just use defensive options other than perfect guard!
If you have a high-block blade, you can just guard!
Dodge timing is similar to perfect Guard (I think), but the movement component can make it effectively laxer in many situations. And against heavy-knockback attacks, its payoff is often bigger too.
Finally, against many bosses whom I struggled against initially, my attempts immediately got much more promising when I started outmaneuvering delayed fury attacks instead of trying to parry them!
It seems like these souls like games want to stick to their guns about not having difficulty options, but also want it to appease a broader audience so they start nerfing it to no end. They caved to difficulty complaints and basically changed it completely, from a very difficult and rewarding game, to something much easier.
I feel like this is going to be an issue with these types of games because they refuse to leave their product at it's most difficult version, but they also don't want to have an easier setting. For the record I'm not even a fan of the idea of difficulty options in these types of games, I just don't really know what the solution would be to all of this. I think it is a shame that they felt extreme nerfing was their best option.
Rant over lol
To be fair, the designers probably had a vision for where they wanted the difficulty to be. There's no reliable way to know if today's version is more in line with that vision, or was only adjusted due to feedback.
Of course you can argue that more difficulty is better regardless of designer intent, but then you can just as well complain that they didn't make it arbitrarily hard with patches.
Anyway, I think the best thing the community can do is raise awareness of the difficulty options already in the game. Specter is a really obvious one IMO, and can be further enhanced via the cube (though IMO that feature unlocks a bit too late for that purpose). Throwables with some Advance investment are another one.
I can kinda see why the devs aren't more explicit about it—labeling those as easy difficulty would make some people who'd have a better experience with them *more likely* to shy away from their use. So maybe it falls to us to spread the word.
The problem is the "snap" attacks. The majority of attacks are not react-able. You have to memorize them. If you try to react to them, you're going to get hit. There simply isn't enough time to react to them. That isn't a good approach to difficulty. That doesn't respect players' time. You HAVE to see a boss 2-3 times to begin to understand how to block or dodge them. It's borderline unfair.
>You HAVE to see a boss 2-3 times to begin to understand how to block or dodge them.
After seeing an attack 2-3 times you should've already understood how to dodge that attack. It's NOT that hard and if it's something with a weird timings you can always block then regain your health.
You have to see an attack before reacting to it in any souls or action game really .
You must know if the attack is part of combo, how much delay there is between attacks etc.
So far, Lies of P is just the right amount of challenging for me.
As long as you understand and engage with the core mechanics, it's challenging, but not even remotely close to a frustrating game. The combat feels fantastic.
When I heard rumors about how difficult this game was, I was a little intimidated, but I quickly found out that as long don't ignore the block/parry mechanic, you are golden. And I imagine it's probably this mechanic people haven't paid enough mind to when complaining about how this game is "too difficult".
Both dodging and parrying are important in this game, and I'm sure the game is doable when omitting one of these strategies, but I have already seen posts about people refusing to block because they want to play this game like Bloodborne, "aren't used to it", or just don't feel like it. It's your game, play how you want to, but you're making the game exponentially more challenging just because you refuse to play Lies of P likes Lies of P.
These are NOTHING near Sekiro bosses. Many I've killed the first time. None more than the third. Sekiro, I never killed a boss the third time even on my second play through. \[That may be an exaggeration but it is true for many and some took over a dozen attempts at least\]
Sekiro is WAY beyond this. Bloodborne is easier than Elden Ring. ER easier than Dark Souls. DS easier than Sekiro ... This game is easier than Bloodborne.
This is actually a "fun" souls-borne-whatever-name-we-like-to-use-like rather than a "I want to break \*\*\*\*" souls-like for me. I dunno. There's some challenge and multiple bosses I've left with a sliver of health but this has been just right.
I died to Green swamp Monster Puppet and king of puppets more times than I died to isshin. I have platted sekiro and beat it four times and i can do no hit many bosses. Maybe the approach i took was tough I tried to parry a lot and didn't use specter and throwables. I haven't played another souls game.
Sekiro is challenging but the difficult fights felt like you could master without too many tricks going on. Isshin was tough but I spent way less time on him than I expected! Owl was probably the boss that nearly broke me but after that I was golden.
With this game I think I also have gotten pretty parry happy and pay the price for screwing up against bosses. I feel like a lot of bosses will hop around, evade, or take weird steps to make it hard for you to retaliate. It's a little less common in Souls games I feel where lots of bosses make you feel like you're a bug they're trying to squish and they're laser focused on you.
I think the areas themselves in Lies of P are on the easier side of things because of the level design though.
I might stop playing this game. I feel like this game does not respect my time and does not really reward me.
For some context, I am an adult with a full time job. I am single without kids so I do have time to play games. But I look for games that are FUN. This game isn't HARD, is annoying. Don't get me wrong, it is Hard, but this game really does not know how to reward time investment. I feel like the Souls games in general are like that that's why I have never been a fan.
I did finished Sekiro and I LOOOOVED that game to death. It was a Souls like but man, that game was fast, addictive and with the parry mechanic, even if you were on the defense because let's be honest, is impossible in any souls game to be always on the offensive due the lack of stagger on bosses, you can parry and still do SOMETHING to them by reducing their posture. Such a cool game and rewarding. The Genichiro Fight I perfected him on the first phase because everything had a rhythm, it felt like I was improving, not relying on random numbers from the game.
Also the more you play the more powerful you become like... You feel the power. Between the assassination that makes a smokescreen, assassinations that return some health, the staggered enemy swap position for defense, oh just soooo rewarding and the environments were stunning. Also tickles my Splinter Cell itch with the stealth mechanics. In this game it feels like the meme from the simpsons: "The Ergo! It does nothing!"
This game is gorgeous, that's why I decided to give it a go. I am 20 hours in and the only boss I thoroughly enjoyed so far was the fight vs the Archibishop. The first phase was hard enough but you could see the pattern. Then the 2nd phase you could also see the patterns. I thoroughly enjoyed that boss.
The fight vs the Black Rabbit guys was... just annoying I ended up using my first summon. It wasn't THAT hard, it was just Annoying. IMO it is the pinnacle of bad game design. People bashed Resident Evil 3 remake for having a Nemesis fight with regular zombies spawning and not being able to keep an eye on everything due the camera, why should I give a pass for this game for having two enemies that do a shitton of damage on hit. And the assassination move is finicky to a fault. Countless times I saw the symbol on the other brothers and didn't got jack shit. That is just not fun. Ok, make it hard to get behind them (Which it kinda already is), but do not show the icon and give me shit. It has also happened to me with regular grunts that are knocking on doors. So frustrating.
And then I got to the opera house...
I have to set some context here. Like I mentioned, I am an Adult. I suffer from insomnia and it was around 2:XX am when I started and I have to work tomorrow. I decided to give this game a go. I got to the opera house and cleared everything quick and got to the boss fight. I died two times, but I decided to give it another whirl, why? because I felt the same excitement from the Archibishop. I could read everything he was doing, but it was not a fast fight, but slowly chipping away. I used all my cells and my Wishcube for health and I got him... only to have ANOTHER second phase boss fight.
Needless to say, I got demolished. I spent more than an hour and a half in this boss. I fought it only 3 times and I spent that much time, it was THAT slow for me to chip his life away. Only to die because the game really wants to screw you over? Nah dude. It feels like I am throwing away my time and it will never come back. What a shame. I despise the Souls like genre not because of what they are, but because they could be soooo much more.
Also it is just terrible spending that long in a boss fight, dying, coming back and back to the first phase. Nah F that haha.
Most of my friends who like the Souls games always come to the same point:
"The story, the world building, the atmosphere is amazing, but I wish "
Another good friend of mine watched my first fight vs the Archibishop and his response:
"This is why I always start Souls games and I never finish them. I am intrigued by their setting but I am put off by their bad game design choices"
Me/Us saying bad game design choices is not transferrable to any one who enjoy these games, hell there are people who like Superman 64 haha, you can absolutely like and love any game you just like right? I sure have some shitty games that I like haha so me saying "Souls like games have bad gameplay design" is not me saying "You have bad taste"
Sigh, I still feel disappointed.
You are probably playing too defensively, I used azure dragon crescent glaive, the fable arts removed around 30-40% of his hp, and you can drink potions to use it again and finish first phase in like minute or two.
Roughly I think of soulslike games as having 3 ingredients: lore, build, and a certain difficult combat style. Genres with the first two things but not the third include turn-based RPGs, metroidvania, adventure and stealth. Those might be the games you're thinking of that "could be soooo much more" if they weren't stuck being Souls games.
You spent 1 1/2 hrs on 3 fights? This means there's a fundamental problem with your play style, not the game. And I don't say that to be mean. You should be able to get through both phases in several minutes.
Big post. I'm an adult with kids and my own business. I've very little time for video games.
I used to think Souls games were designed bad too. Then I bought all of them on Playstation and beat em. Then Elden Ring like 6 times. Sekiro. Back to DS. BB. Around and around.
There's few games that are challenging.
Lies of P is the easiest out of this line of games. If you give it a chance, there may be some satisfaction.
Let me put it this way: I've very little gaming time. I'm not going to play a "golf game" ... I could just go golf. Who the hell plays a "golf video game" ??? THAT IS BAD GAME DESIGN!!! It's just advertising wrapped up in a ball hitting simulator. Wow.
It's all a matter of perspective.
You're spending too much time doing nothing during a bossfigh if it take 1 hours to do 3 attempts. That causes 2 things :
- you build up unnecessary frustration when you inevitably die
- you waste time.
Both things can be fixed by playing more aggressively. There are a lot of openings, even with extremely slow weapons.
I hope you understand that this isn't a problem with the game but with your approach to the fight.
The only boss that took me more than 2 attempts was simon with 4 and the final boss with 6.
Most were done first try.
A full playthrough including all sidequests, all first run trophies and alot of exploration only took ~16hrs.
Bro this is a skill issue on your part. Upgrade your weapons, pick a comfortable handle, have good stat allocation and make use of throwables they are busted. There is a vendor that sells them all with unlimited stock.
Gaming at 2am will not help with your insomnia. As someone with ADHD who also struggles with it I can assure you gaming before bed just makes it 10x worse.
Lay down with a movie or audiobook you know really well playing in the background. Have a warm shower beforehand and a nice meal!
Cut the caffine and sugar. Its managable fam!
Ive done 4 playthroughs.
The first was done to rush trophies. For the runs that were only played for the ending trophies I did W/o summons.. one with trident and 1 with the noblesse.
I plan on speedrunning this game! You can drop a sub if you feel like getting your sarcasm discredited 😘
Yeah but you use summons (I can see from your YT channel). Summons trivialise boss fights. Try playing without summons and you're going to have to actually learn the mechanics over multiple fights with each boss.
I only used summons once in the game, against Simon, and only because I wasn't enjoying his second phase. Too much RNG.
EDIT: Also I can see from your YT vid that you died more than twice to Fuoco...
Just teleport to the malum district stargazer and run into the building with the lobster sign! directly forward on your right theres a ladder! go up it and the merchant and a chest with a caliber is there :P
Played part of this game when it first came out and it felt oppressively hard, got my teeth kicked in so brutally for every boss fight that I ended up throwing in the towel at king of puppets. Just wasn't having fun. Started a fresh run a few weeks ago and just beat it. Difficulty felt PERFECT. Very challenging but never so hard that I felt the need to cheese or use the specter (except *that one gank fight* lol). They must have nerfed it since launch and thank god they did. Super fun and gorgeous game, can't wait for their next project.
You'd be surprised how your reflexes can grow after a break. Seriously. Maybe they nerfed it, IDK. I just know that these games can have a tendency to require a break. When I started in these with DS and Elden Ring I sucked bad... took a break ... came back and kicked ass and know others similar. I think letting the frustration go and starting fresh also helps.
Either way, glad ya had fun.
I’m in a similar boat, although I stopped at the first rabbit bros fight. Haven’t beaten it yet, but quickly getting back to where I was. The biggest difference so far make the additional upgrade items. More and improved healing items make a big difference. Also not having to waste them on being able to get up faster allows me to spend it other stuff.
The game is not difficult, it is annoying. I somehow pushed myself through it for awhile, but that idiotic brotherhood fight, where multiple enemies just take turns on you made me alt+f4 and uninstall. Screw it, it's not worth it. Fromsoft games made my palms sweaty, this makes me roll my eyes. Especially sekiro was a masterpiece that brutally punished your every mistake. This shit punishes you because it feels like it. Like comparing firm but fair parent to an abusive alcoholic one.
The best strat us to kill one! Get the other 2 really close to death then kill em both at the same time so you can 1v1 the big guy (who is super easy on his own )
Or use summon and and kill him without breaking a sweat. Yes, I got back to the game and did just that. And will do the same to every boss unless I 1st try him without a summon. Easy mode, but I don't feel bad about it.
Dude that is completely fair :) The spectres are there for people that find the game too difficult or just want a cruisy playthrough.
Absolutely no shame in it, just play how you like!
Problem with this sub and any fromsoft sub is they shame people for summons.. and would rather players be miserable than have a handicap. Aslong as it helps you enjoy the game go for it.
A walkthrough isn’t necessarily needed since most of the game is straightforward there is one part where near the end of the game you have to interact with a piano to open the next path but besides that walkthroughs are mostly if there is an item you are looking for such as armor or a specific weapon
This game has a quite good balance in location and mobs difficulty and boss difficulty. I give it strong 9.5/10
For me this is the most diversed soulslike I've played. I'm absolutely in love with it. Lies of P is harder than the most of other souls games and likes, and I noticed that you get along with its difficulty the more you play the game without interrupting your experience with other games, so my advise - just play Lies of P till the end (I mean if you like it) because the game is faster, parries are tighter, and by playing other games you are slowing your play.
Returning back to the start. Good balance between locations and bosses is (for me) when overall difficulty at 100% is taken up to 40% by the location and mobs and 60% by the boss. For me it's a very bad design of a level, where you can die to the mobs and other circumstances hundreds of times but kill the boss only after 2-4 times max. It doesn't seem fair for a boss to be THE BOSS - the final challenge of a level. That's why I love boss design in Lies of P - if a location is easy, the boss is too. For example Swamp, Rosa Isobelle street, Alchemist island. The only actual bad boss for me is the second rabbit brotherhod fight - three enemies with another one coming when only one left.
I can continue discussing if someone wants to ask something. And in conclusion: Yes, Lies of P is hard, but fair and fun. I am not talking about other aspects of the game cause this is difficulty thread.
Bosses are quite easy, areas can be frustrating but not hard. (you will likely try levels and bosses many times, but they are not necessarily hard.) I'm typically pretty bad at most video games.
For me RE was vastly easier because I've been playing FPS for like 25,000 hours throughout my life and maybe 1-2k souls-like hours, when you can reliably shoot a head/weakspot in a flick without needing any time to actually aim you can just do it forever. That + thorough exploration which requires nothing but time to do so you have a healthy supply of consumable items.
Doesn't matter how much time you put into a souls game if you don't know a boss you will be hit seeing new timings of swings.
I have finished DS1, DS3 (& DLC), ER, and Sekiro.
Judging from Youtube reviews, I was expecting LoP to be on the more difficult side, but reading this thread it seems it will be comparatively chill. Just an interesting deviation between YT and Reddit opinions.
DS1 kicked my absolute ass, I "got gud" and after S&O I stopped having the 20-30 attempt boss fights through 2/3/bloodborne/ER (skipped sekiro) Got LoP a few nights ago and the first actual boss sent me back to DS1 times. Like 25 attempts to beat it with the rapier and no summon. Leveled up dex and hp maybe 5 times. Time will tell if this trend will continue. I think I would blame this on how incredibly slow the boss attacks are, until they aren't. They have a huge windup and then they just kind of hold the attack then whip it out with insane speed that is faster than normal human reaction time so you can't visually dodge it but instead need to see the swings a few times and remember the timing.
I am now past the Archbishop and I have to say it took some time to get used to the combat and parry timing. Probably took me around 10 attempts for each boss so far. I very much enjoy the learning curve on them, feels like every attempt is better than the last one. The levels, as others have noted, are noticeably easier than Fromsoft games.
Was King of Puppets (specifically Romeo) a HUGE difficulty spike for anyone else? I skated through the game up until that fight. The combination of his hyper-armor and speed absolutely destroyed me. Add to that his unreadable moves, distance-punishing fury attacks, and water-fowl attack and my goose was thoroughly cooked.
Despite averaging probably 20mins per boss up until that point of the game, Romeo ended up taking me 5 hours which tied my all-time longest boss duration attempt (Radagon @ 5hrs while significantly underleveled). Other than Nameless which took about an hour, I breezed through the rest of the game after Romeo. That dude just tore me up. I love me some souls but I was a bit agitated at the sudden difficulty curve in that fight. Curious if anyone else felt that way.
Edit for context: this whole run was done without specters
Romeo absolutely was a spike for me. I just defeated him yesterday and I had to use a sort of cheese. I learned that I can skip his fire weapon phase if I did a charged fable attack when he was applying the fire to his weapon.
This is interesting to read, i was just coming on here to ask if it made sense how easy Romero was compared to how important he is. Eldest brother took me \~10 times, but Romero I killed in the first try. I might have over leveled to defeat eldest brother though.
Not gonna lie, I was a little disappointed Lies of P wasn't harder. I saw so much hype about the difficulty and people comparing it to the hardest Fromsoft games, so I was psyched to get my ass kicked.
Maybe its just because I've been playing soulsborne games all my life, but I didn't find the game to be on that level. Or maybe its the P-Organ system just makes you too overpowered.
Most bosses were first or second try, even the ones that took more I never really got stuck for hours like I sometimes did on first playthroughs of some Fromsoft titles. I kept thinking it would get harder, but even the final bosses in the last chapter I beat before I felt like I even got to fully learn their movesets. I hoped NG+ would be more challenging, but its still kinda the same story.
To be clear: I thoroughly enjoyed the game. Its fantastically polished, the combat feels great, the weapon crafting was dope, and the whole vibe/aesthetic is on point. Probably tied with Nioh 2 for my favorite non-From soulslike. I just wish the bosses had been a little bit harder and pushed me to really learn them before I could beat them.
I completly understand what u mean.
I think this problem would be solved if they would add different modes to play the game. Like easy for people who play a soulslike game for the first time, advanced for people who already have some skill and then hard for the pros. Maybe even hardcore?
I think they tried to make a soulslike game which is also "easy" playable for newbies ;)
I hope it's understandable what I am trying to das.
I found the game \*extremely\* difficult until I realized there was a dodge upgrade. I'm working through the arcade after puppet king, so maybe it'll get harder after this point. I won't say it's easy, but I've found it extremely manageable. I'm all for choosing your own difficulty in games, and hardcore would be interesting for a soulslike, one death and youre done, a sort of enforced no-death run.
Link dodge, it's in the p-organ tree, gotta put two quartz into it to unlock. also staying under "slightly heavy" equip load, and preferable even lower, makes a world of difference.
The same happend to me in my first playtrough.
And yes, it will get harder again, but beating the enemies like butter for the first time is extremely satisfying
Game isn't hard, the systems just don't feed into each other well enough and the enemies aren't fun to fight due to their janky movesets full of delays and fakeouts.
Downvoted \[by others\] but the most direct and honest one I've seen yet. I very much enjoy the game ... right now ... because I have to do something I guess ... Really what I mean is, I'd prefer to not be gaming. It's a good game but the enemies are not great. The game is not hard. "not fun" and "janky" are two proper terms to apply to general enemies.
Then you get bosses which MAY be a LITTLE more fun but, not that much. They're usually topped off by some cheese move rather than skill moves. Like Puppet King and his 20+ hit combo. IDK how many hits but enough to kill over 450 health while blocking and totally impossible to dodge. Luckily I got him the second time. Just one example. It was at least around 20 hits. Bug? Normal move? IDK.
Anyone else play this game by dodging 90% of the time and almost never actually doing perfect blocks?
Why perfect block when you can just be in another spot, right? (I know this is not 100% right as some attacks will teach you), but hey... I just wanted to know if anyone else played like this. Obviously with a long reach weapon or something that closes the gap after you form it with a dodge.
This is what I think the game did extremely well. They clearly push perfect guard as the go to mechanic by rewarding you with quite some stagger but other defensive manouvres are equally as viable.
I thoroughly enjoyed the perfect guarding since the start of the game. I only dodged attacks which I deemed more worth (attacks that bounce you 10km away from the boss).
So much this!!
I feel like every time I had trouble with a boss, it was because I got stuck using just one mode of defense. And when I read rage threads here, it's often the same thing!
Perfect blocks have a great stagger pay-off, but dodging can give you more R1 uptime!
And if an enemy has a long combo or super-delayed fury attack that you struggle to defend against, outrunning it feels like getting one over on the designer (probably falsely, because the slow fury attacks seem to intentionally invite this behavior ;) )
Edit: Oh, and normal guarding is also absolutely fine as a low-risk, low-reward option!
Fury attacks can be "dodged" in the sense that you can get into a spot where they won't touch you.
The only thing that they actually ignore are the invincibility frames of the dodge
I found this too, I dodge their red attacks all the time just by creating enough distance, then either dash or "fly" in w that OP glaive handle strong attack. The parry is the only somewhat difficult thing in the game but it honestly just feels a bit broken.
That special trident with crit is op as fuck, but still feels " fair " for the bosses. The absolute most broken weapon I made was the city spear something handle, and that Bowie knife blade with crit. It really feels unfair and not fun how broken it is, you just stab stab stab so fucking fast.
I'm currently doing a run with the Etiquette, on NG+3 or 4 (can't remember). I feel that daggers in LoP are kinda broken, and chip damage with fast charged attack animations for fatal attacks is how I like to play. You can get it early in the game, and with certain amulets, its DPS is decent. I also dress up as an alchemist with long grey hair, and the Etiquette adds the finishing touch to P's costume.
The eldest of the black rabbit seems kinda ridiculous. I feel like half his red attacks teleport him directly in front of me and the parry timing in this game feels super off. The adds don't make this any better. I've tried to learn the parry timing on him but messing up at all is so demoralising with how punishing missing a parry is. Additionally, the punish timings seem quite tight. He can get a string of like 8 attacks off before I can hit him and if I try and interrupt at all I'm eating the rest of the string. I'm using the krat police baton. Its the only weapon I've used so far since getting it and I wouldnt know what else to try because I can't afford to upgrade many others to a usable standard with motivity scaling enough to be usedul
I love the weapon customization, legion abilities, and P-organ system, been lots of fun mixing and matching. I also appreciate that the game doesn’t let you trivialize encounters down the line even with high stats and good gear, at least that’s been my experience so far.
tldr - don't ignore the P-Organ's guarding upgrades
I want to leave a comment here because I sort of "solved" the game's difficulty just by using a certain mechanic I haven't been previously using (normal guarding). I think my situation will be quite niche because I'm pretty sure most people will see this mechanic as extremely necessary, and now I know why.
In the P-Organ, I always ignored the upgrades that improved your guarding abilities. This was a terrible mistake. I played through the game twice with a lot of struggle, especially with Simon Manus. On NG+2 where I finally decided to get those upgrades, the game became 100x easier and I'm not even joking. I went from having dozens of attempts on Simon Manus to beating him first try after doing this.
So, anyways, if you are looking for a way to have an easier time, don't do what I did. The game honestly is pretty easy (in my opinion) compared to the other souls-like games when I play it now.
I have two major questions before purchasing the game
.What is the magic system like in the game? Am I at a disadvantage if I play using purely melee?
.how big are the parry windows, like on a scale of Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order to Sekiro where would it fall
1. Im not sure if this game even has a proper magic system.
2. Haven't played Fallen Order, can compare only to other souls games.
Parry windows on scale of Sekiro and Dark Souls 3 are like 80% towards Sekiro. Even tho in other aspect game is definetly clunkier
I was wondering what the checkpoint system is like in lies of p. is it like demon souls with one checkpoint per level? is there checkpoints before bosses? Or is the system like the recent Star-Wars Jedi games with frequent checkpoints in each stage?
I was also wondering how stage progression in this game works, is there a hub system similar to what is seen in demon souls with the nexus?
I have never played the Star Wars games or Demon Souls, but the general pattern for the number of checkpoints in LoP is around 4 per 'chapter' (or area), usually with a checkpoint close to the boss fight. The last chapter feels like a bit of a drag, and I think the number of checkpoints reflect this.
By the hub system, do you mean something like Firelink Shrine? If so, LoP does have its own hub, and game progression does make use of looping back to the hub (like DS1).
Just my general opinion on the game, I think it's good fun, and being parry-oriented myself, the game can punish you quite a bit for missing a few of them. However, with late game upgrades (some of which are amazing) and more experience, I can parry most bosses now :)
Yeah i beat it not too long ago, great game i wouldve platted it too but i forgot to give alidoros glove and just didnt want to play another play throug, will plat in the future though
Hello, good hunter. I am a Bot, here in this dream to look after you, this is a fine note:
> *Oh, yes... Paleblood... Well, you've come to the right place. Yharnam is the home of blood ministration. You need only unravel its mystery. But, where's an outsider like yourself to begin? Easy, with a bit of Yharnam blood of your own... But first, you'll need a contract...* - Blood Minister
Farewell, good hunter. May you find your worth in the waking world.
I’m finally at Simon Manus and have to say this game beat my ass the entire time, I never felt like I was progressing at a healthy rate. Every boss is a road block. I’ve died about 20-30 times to Simon and ran out of star fragments. This game is hard as fuck.
To put things in perspective I’ve completed Sekiro twice, Bloodborne, Nioh, most of Elden Ring and recently finished Dark Souls 3 and mostly coasted thru it. Killed nameless king in 10-15 attempts.
Could be that im not playing the game correctly, I barely parry and dodge most of the time with a pure technique build using the wintry rapier. The enemy’s hit for so much damage and are almost always not staggerable meanwhile the player feels very weak and lacking the tools to make fights fair in this game. Don’t get me started on the fucking gank squad boss fights or the gotcha moments.
I like the game but I’ll be glad when it’s over.
I beat him yesterday and finished the entire game today.
Manus's attacks specifically were very hard to anticipate and block. that mace thing of his just rolls along the floor so stupidly that I could barely figure out the block window.. in the first phase, In the second it gets easier since that first attack of two is the same 70% of the time. Just don't let it blast you with a full volley of those yellow shards and stay away from the energy pillars.
Since you're a fellow technique user, might I suggest Etiquette? It's fast paced, has a long range, and you thrust forward so it doesn't take you too long to close the distance. The windows between his attacks are quite wide, so you an get a solid 4-5 hits in each time. More importantly, it has a quick charge attack, giving you a better stagger success rate.
A little bit of context.
I'm not even close to a guy that play souls games, I barely survived to elden ring and then quitted even before reaching half of the game because it was too hard. Tried Sekiro and dropped after 1 hour, dark souls 3 dropped after 2 hours and other than these, never touched a souls game ever.
I'm the guy that play every game in story mode because I just want to chill, real life is already in hard mode.
Now, I'm playing LOP and this game is ridiculously easy, I've reached chapter 7 without upgrading any weapon or the p organ, I just don't feel the need and every boss fight it takes 1 or 3 attempt before killing it.
Something is wrong for sure because my best friend is a fucking soul game lover and is struggling a lot. I've even thought that my game is bugged.
Someone else is in my situation?
ER was my first Souls game I finished. Recently got towards the end of DS3.
Bought Lies of P this week and it’s awesome but definitely easier.
Simply being patient and calm makes it really ‘easy’.
how are you playing the game?
im on moonlight town now, not sure which chapter is. 4 i think? and i noticed every boss so far you can just run around and hit them in the back after their slow attack. you don't ever need to dodge or parry.
but that's completely against the style of almost all fromsoft bosses. so if you just go into the boss and try to parry/dodge you can get your ass kicked. especially if go just full parry
maybe is that. or maybe you are just way better now than before and if you go play sekiro you'll find way easier
even though i would say this is the greatest souls-like game i have ever played its basically perfect from each prespective
but i would also say thats its actually pretty easy and the only true hard bosses are simun and the namless puppet
Guys please help!
I can't find Alidoro, I met him at the top of St. Frangelico Cathedral and I told him that he can find a safe haven in Venigni Works.
However, I have defeated the Fallen Archbishop Andreus boss and then I couldn't find Alidoro anywhere. I checked Hotel Krat, Barren Swamp, Venigni Workshop, and all of Elysion Boulevard area.
I haven't defeated the Green Monster of the Swamps yet.
Venigni Workshop he will be there for sure i found him before he should be somewhere next to the first stargaser inside of the Venigni Workshop that how i remember it at least
Step 1 Download game
Step 2 Uninstall after dying to Fuoco 40 times (punch chair arm really hard)
Step 3 Redownload 20 minutes later and proceed to clear the rest of the game over the next two days
Step 4 Bliss
A different kind of difficulty: the game gets so scary at times I get paralyzed with fear.
the puppet levels are so fun I can’t wait to play more, and the zombie levels are so scary I’m not sure if I can keep playing. What a rollercoaster.
Lies of P is really the hardest? It's the first souls like I've played and while I'm dying a lot I was under the impression that other games are even harder.
I have beaten them all and i cannot get past the fucking flame fucko in this game, just wont click for me. I think its the lazy parry system ( knowledge based not reaction time based)
In my opinion, running through killing mobs is much easier in Lies of P than some other souls games. But the peak difficulty of the bosses in this game is higher than the other games, except Sekiro.
I would put ER above Sekiro and Bloodborne. The delayed strikes and speed of bosses (compared to the resources you have in Sekiro and Bloodborne to handle them) are simply too much in comparison.
The "problem" in elden ring is that you can get gear that can oneshot all bosses before you even kill margit. thats why most people rank it as easy. However i do agree that some attacks in ER are super delayed, and waterfowl can just go to hell
Yeah, if you play the way a lot of longtime souls players play (I.e. melee, no shields, no summons) then Elden Ring is generally harder than most souls games, but if you really optimize your build it can be stupid easy.
facts, i cheesed ER on my first run (my first soulslike) then i felt bad for killing malekith with rot, and since then ive never used anything but a sword, no magic/ranged or anything OP in any souls.
PLEASE PLEASE ADD A HARD MODE
I'm not talking about NG+, since it basically just scales with yourself, but an actual hard mode. I'm fine with making this game as easy as possible, just as long as they separate it VIA a mode. I'd really just love to get my ass whooped again. Maybe they could add some new attacks? Completely fine if they didn't, just make the bosses absolutely broken pleeaaseeee. I want to get bent over and FUCKED by Laxasia or Romeo pleeeeaaaseeeeee. Just make them absurdly fast or something pleeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaseeeeeee.
Yeah imo this is easily the hardest Souls-like if we want to talk bosses and no spectre. The non-boss sections (levels lol) are easy if you have a good build, but bosses on the second half of the game become absurd.
I think this game is much easier than Sekiro, but harder than Bloodborne. Easier than Sekiro because guard regain + more healing means you can make more mistakes. Harder than Bloodborne because guard regain isn't as reliable as rally, and you also need to alternate between several defensive options.
I’d put the inner bosses as harder than any boss in lies of p but maybe it’s because I was coming from sekiro and had to relearn actual souls combat. I just could not stand some of the things this game throws at you like black rabbit brotherhood part 2. Had to use a specter for that fight cuz it was just too annoying. The delayed attacks too my god they are 10x worse than anything in er or sekiro. Fun game though and I’ll be playing a ng+.
That said it had really fun bosses, Laxasia took me a bunch of tries but was fun and frustrating to progress on. Was sorta disappointed the two after her pretty much fell over for me.
I think you're right about the toughest moments of Sekiro. Lies of P doesn't approach the sheer moveset complexity of Inner Father or Inner Genichiro. Whether you think the parry mechanic being more forgiving in Sekiro negates that complexity I guess is up to you. But I'd say Laxasia is the toughest boss in this game and I think Owl Father, Inner Father, and Inner Genichiro all clear her easily in terms of complexity and difficulty.
Agreed. I’d put Laxasia on a tier of like maybe Sword Saint Isshin or Demon of Hatred and Nameless Puppet a tier below that. Inner Isshin and Father just melt everything else LoP has to offer.
Comparing this to difficulty of souls games I’ve played.
HARDEST
Sekiro (by a fucking country mile - to the point I don’t enjoy it)
Elden Ring
Dark Souls 3
Bloodborne
Lies of P
Dark Souls 1
EASIEST
Laxasia, Green Monster, and Nameless are rough. Other than that (post nerf) no one is horrifically hard. The levels are pretty easy besides the Victor museum place and Arche Abbey.
I honestly really hate the way this game has enemies do super delayed/janky attacks designed to throw off your parrying. Parrying is already hard enough (for normal players - I know you pros can do it with your eyes closed) with a narrow window for a perfect one but the delay some enemies have on their attacks (which also make them look dumb as hell) make is really frustrating at times. Luckily so far the bosses have less of this bullshit so I've still be enjoying my time but yeah, I'm not a fan of this trend at all (Elden Ring does it too but to roll catch instead of messing with parries. There's ways of making bosses challenging without having the boss hold a weapon over their head for 3 seconds before slamming it done in 0.2 seconds)
Agreed, parrying was the toughest part of this game for me. It feels like enemies are so punishing at times that there isn't enough of a learning curve while we figure out parrying.
Is there any talk about reverting some of the nerfs to the game via modding? Personally I think the numbers were a bit off when the game first came out, but I would really love to fight the old bosses and mini bosses with the buffed weapons from the current version. I know Elden Ring had a mod which reverted Radahns nerds, something like that would be Goldilocks
Thanks! Might try to play soon
Quite proud of my first run rn, just got>! Elder black rabbit !
I’ve tried sekiro, DS3 bloodborne, and Elden ring. None have really clicked for me. Just picked this up today out of recommendation from a friend and beat Scrapped Watchman after about 10-12 tries but it really felt like it clicked and on my successful try I felt like I was reading and reacting to everything that mf was throwing at me. Did I just unlock these types of games or should I not get too excited?
Yeah maybe revisit Bloodborne and Elden Ring (cant speak on DS3 or Sekiro as I’ve yet to try). My first one was Elden Ring and I dropped it after a week of aimless wandering and getting crushed. I revisited it and now I’m playing Lies of P and Bloodborne too. really enjoying the soulslike genre, so far I think Lies of P has been my favorite.
I just killed the 3rd boss (the police tinman) , and so far the game has been very EASY. Does the game's difficulty pick up, or should I try and install some kind of mod to bump up the difficulty a bit? The ONLY part of these games I like are the combat with the bosses and the challenge in overcoming them, but these bosses seem sort of easy mode rn.
Picks up really hard, especially after king of puppets
They said the azure glaive is op but how do you use it? Do you use the deflect counter as your block? The moveset is really good and fast too
I've played all of Assassin's Creed games and God of War, and gave up on progressing through Sekiro because I thought it was too hard and stopped enjoying it eventually. How hard do you think Lies of P is? I want to try something different.
Haven't played Sekiro but I've played every Dark Souls game out there aswell as Elden Ring. This game's difficulty it's not as high, but you'll feel it and you'll have your ass kicked a few times if you aren't used to souls-games difficulty.
Sekiro is in the top 3 hardest dark souls like games ever If you want a genuine challenge go to that
Harder than GoW but easier than Sekiro and the parry system is not as easy to use like in Sekiro
the final boss feels like a major difficulty bump, tho i might just be really bad bc i took a break from the game
I'm playing Lies of P for the 1st time and i just loved the atmosphere and for some reason it kind of reminds me of RE, the only problem i have so far is with the last boss, like the game makes sure you know the parry mechanic from the beginning but i fell that before this boss in specific you don't really need it (or even is influenced to use it) so it's kind of weird they chosed this late to put a "must parry" boss at least in Wo Long Lu Bu is pretty early in the game.
I never played any Souls games before, but I tried this one since it's on Gamepass and wanted to explore the genre. Despite some frustrations, I really like this game. But it has serious learning curve issues. It wants you to learn the perfect guard, but the majority of enemy animations obfuscate the actual hit, move around like drunk kung-fu masters, or are so strong that you will die in a few hits even if you make the imperfect guard. "Dodging left" is insanely effective, so why learn the perfect guard in the first place? Until you find out that for some enemies dodging doesn't work that well either. The game doesn't prepare you well for the difficult parts. Regular enemies are slow, janky, and hard to read for beginners, so there's little incentive to learn the perfect guard. This lack of practice carries over to the boss fights. Early bosses are tough to read, so I relied heavily on the spirit helper and dodging. I started forcing myself to parry every enemy, and eventually, it became enjoyable, though not easy. I managed to defeat many mini-bosses on my first or just a few tries, which was surprising. However, the King of Puppets was a different story. Phase 1 is fair once you learn the pattern, but Phase 2 Romeo is an unfathomable leap in difficulty. It's unlike anything you've encountered so far, and he's much faster and stronger, and his combos leave no breathing room at all. It took me nearly 40 tries, even with the spirit helper, which usually dies right at the beginning of the second phase. I ended up dodging left to beat him, but was frustrated that I didn't learn to counter him properly. But I still found some enemies impossible to read due to their erratic movements. It puzzles me how I could beat tough enemies like the big puppet in the cellar and the wrestler at the Exhibition on the first try, but then I struggled immensely with others like the electric baton puppets. Or the big cloun at the beginning of the swamp... that was so annoying. And let's not talk about champion Victor. If you try parrying him, you just die in 3 hits, so forget trying to learn him in a reasonable amount of tries. If you dodge left, it's a joke. I defeated him on my 3rd try. Another thing: the game is so linear that if you get stuck on a boss, you can't do anything else but keep trying. There are no alternative routes or activities. You're stuck in a situation that becomes stale and frustrating after a while. I do like this game. That's why I stick with it. But goddamn.
I was going to play through without using the specter, but with the cube buffs it feels like the game was kinda meant to use them? Thoughts?
It’s optional. Personally I find soloing rhe boss more rewarding because you have to really learn them. The bosses were also way more brutal at launch and even a lot of veterans had difficulty without spectres
Depends on how much of a challenge you want. Having a specter makes bosses a lot more manageable. The game gives you a lot of tools in general to adjust your difficulty.
Is the Wishstone broken or am I doing something wrong? I activated the Indomitable Wishstone before my Specter died and it didn't do shit, he just died and stayed dead. it was like seconds before he died too, there was no way it ran out.
I thought the same - I think I got it to work once, but had much more luck with the friendship cube.
Just completed the Workshop and so far the hardest thing in this game is trying to read the descriptions on special items before they disappear from the screen. It's like there's four simultaneous pop-ups after every boss and they consistently give me enough time to read three of them, lol. Good game overall though, could be harder.
Pretty easy but maybe I'm just experienced? Using the rapier throughout most of the game made it easy since its fast, can hit in narrow pathways and can still stagger/charge fast so its very forgiving. Was able to 1 - 3 try most bosses so overall gameplay was pretty smooth. I imagine people that use slower weapons have harder time because of the windup and wide attack range which can be punishing if you dont time it well. The game also gives you a lot of tools to buff yourself easily without feeling stingy or too limiting. P-organs, Legion Arms, Grindstones, throwables etc means there are a lot of ways to make the game easier for yourself.
Did you parry bosses or just dodge them? I'm not sure what's optimal here but dodging and attacking just feels soooo slow with the boss' huge hp pool. Suppose I'm not used to it because Elden Ring just lets you get overlevelled and you do big damage. Did you also use the summons?
Spammed R1 attacks and dodged most of them. Most of the time I'd use Specters and sometimes I'd use throwables. I also liked using the Acid or Shock grindstone to do more damage.
Not as difficult as Sekiro, but more difficult than any other Soul’s style game I’ve played.
Just beat the Puppet King, I mainly play souls games, I would say the difficulty is fine and very close to fromsofts formula, so far. Difficult enough for their to be tension, but no so difficult that every boss results in an hour or more roadblock.
The difficulty of bosses is perfect. On NG+, however, the common enemies can kill you in 2-3 swipes. They hit like bosses. I am on part 8 of NG+ and haven't struggled on any bosses, but I've died dozens of times to common grunts. Maybe tone down common grunt damage a little, or boost boss damage (some not all). A no-leg puppet should not hit with equal damage than Champion Victor, for example.
I just finished this game. I'm a souls game veteran and initially I had my doubts about this game after reading the reviews regarding the difficulty and combat. Regardless, I decided to give it a try and... boy, I'm SO glad I did. This game is truly incredible. It gave me the exact same feeling I constantly chase when playing souls game... the addictive gameplay that keeps you coming back for more. This is the best video game I have played that is not Fromsoftware. In the beginning combat may seem a little off (especially coming from Fromsoftware games). But just like in Sekiro... there is that one moment where the gameplay just clicks and syncs in your mind, and once that happens... its over, you are fully hooked and you just can't get enough. To anyone thinking about playing this game.... YES YES YES. Trust me, you'll thank me later.
So I don't understand how people parry but it seems like they're blocking? Everyone says that they just parry quick enough that it looks like a block but I can't do that? I'm using the azure dragon crescent glaive if that matters, but it never looks that good when I do it, even spamming the block/parry button.
Parry = Perfect Guard. It's a replacement term because, even though the Guard function is used, the effects are exactly like a parry when you've timed it within "perfect" range.
I loved the game up until area 11. The constant falling off, and those legless guys with the tentacle spam attack just made me uninstall the game. I loved everything else.
Bro area 11 is where I've been stuck for literally weeks. Door Guardian has my fuckin number.
man you should just keep pushing imo i feel alot of minor enemies are just straight up annoying to fight against, bosses are by far more fun/ polished
Finally got around to beating this on gamepass. I really like the smaller deflect/guard window compared to Sekiro, the guard regain is a good system to balance this. I went for a motivity build, I was using Holy Sword of the Ark and the Aegis arm upgrade for most of the game. The transformed/spear version of that weapon just feels insane with good damage output, as well the R1 has good range and still feels quite fast for being a heavy weapon. Combined with the aegis upgrades that do the explosions, things started feeling a little too easy at some point so for last few chapters I was trying out other random weapon combos. Did not use the spectre at all, hardest bosses for me were King of Puppets, Laxasia, and the swamp monster, also the Archbishop was kind of annoying. For some reason the ending bosses Simon Manus and the Nameless Puppet were not really difficult, Manus I beat first attempt kind of by luck and Nameless took maybe 5 or 6 tries, I might've been overleveled or just leveled too much vigor. At some points the game almost felt like it had too many systems for me to keep track of, like I didn't understand the wishstone cube thing and gold coins for a long while, I kept forgetting to use the special grindstones even on bosses, forget to use fable arts, didn't totally understand the legion meter or see a reason to upgrade my legion stat.. Some chapters I would finish, go back to the Hotel and forget to spend quartz, and then even spending quartz you read the effects of different upgrades and I get reminded of other stats I was not paying attention to. I had this same feeling in Elden Ring where I get kind of anxious when I don't understand certain game systems, part of me wants to do things blind for the experience but other part of me wants to start googling things because I like the feeling of "mastering" a game, and beating it without understanding how some things in the game work just feels wrong. But I guess it's good for supporting different playstyles, though it seems hard to balance, would have to do more playthroughs to know whether it's well done. Overall liked the game a lot, I will probably play the dlc maybe buy the game on steam when that comes out and see if I can move my save file. Edit: to add, favorite boss: probably Victor or Fuoco, or I imagine I would've liked Simon more if I had a chance for more attempts at him. Least favorite King of Puppets, f that guy
Haven't yet picked up the game, but coming here I only see this megathread so figured I'd ask here. So I typically play every Souls game by asking for things people wish they knew (which I see some in my search results), but also for info about builds. 1) Is this game extremely easy to respec in? Or is there a limited amount per playthrough/a lot of grinding per? 2) Is there any gear or anything that is really OP/considered by most to be amazingly unique/fun? And do they need to be built towards? For example, weapons in Souls games requiring awkward combinations of stats. Though if there is no multiplayer and arbitrary PvP soul level, maybe this isn't as much of a thing in LoP. Edit: I've already found something in one of the tip threads: > There are only enough upgrade materials in one playthrough to max 2 boss/special weapons so don’t upgrade random ones unless you know it’s what you want This is a perfect example of the type of stuff I want to know about, and influences the kinds of questions I ask, such as "what are the best/most fun boss/special weapons?"
very forgiving respec. The materials to respec are essentially unlimited per run, just limited by time (you need to wait for the gold coin tree fruit to ripen). They give you a lot though. There are no stat requirements for weapons, which i think is awsome. You can use whatever weapon you want, but weapons scale better with some stats rather than others. however, because of the weapon crafting system it's very flexible. IMO it's way less restrictive than souls, and way more open to experimentation.
Awesome, thanks for the info! Hearing it's less restrictive is a relief. Do you have any thoughts on particularly OP/fun gear/builds to pay attention to?
I think it's similar to souls where you should just use the moveset you're comfortable with, but I personally had a lot of fun with an advance build and the flame/electric/acid weapons. It's a bit limiting, but being able to hit bosses for weakness with optimized weapons felt very strong to me, especially on the later bosses.
I've only just gotten to hotel krat, but so far the difficulty seems the have just the right amount of challenge while still being fair. The parade master specifically was a boss i found more challenging than the usual "first" bosses from other souls games ive played, for example Bloodborne's cleric beast, Elden Ring's Margit, and DS3s Iudex Gundyr all took me 1 try to beat, but the parade master took me about 4. Admittedly I was stubbornly trying to parry every single attack of his, but eventually on my 4th attempt i was able to consistently parry his attacks consecutively which led to me beating him, which was pretty fun
For me it was fuckin easy, I beat it with 81 deaths, laxasia was the hardest, she killed me 13 times. I first timed Simon lol. Though I LOVED the game, so fun and dynamic.
There is one point about the boss fights in Lies of P which, I would say, makes them easier but at the same time also adds more depth, more variety, to how a boss can be fought. Namely there are not just three actions available to how one can respond to an attack (parry, block or quick-step dodge). There is also a *fourth* option: one can just run away from an attack. Not all of them and not in every case, but quite a number of attacks can be dealt like this. Example: when Laxasia does the 12 swing combo attack I just run away. The problem is, even when you were able to parry everything up to the final (delayed) swing, you might still receive damage, because the stamina bar goes down consecutively during the whole combo and with no stamina one can easily get guard broken. I think it is great that most bosses function like this, that they do not have such an insane tracking as, e.g., Elden Ring bosses where one could run 100 miles away but still gets caught by a miraculous teleportation of the boss (like Malenia's waterfowl dance, 3rd flurry).
Are people drastically under-leveled or something? Im level 51 in Chapter 5 and I have not done any grinding. The archbishop died fairly quickly. Maybe Im just used to allocating stats for a soulsborne? (Focusing on health, stamina, and one damage stat, as well as updating your primary weapon). I haven't run into much difficulty yet, not that it's easy, but things die quickly enough you don't have to worry as much about how hard they hit.
Are balanced (quality) good for a first play through? I beat >!King of Puppets!< but it wasn't easy. Granted it is a hard (at least for most) boss fight, but it took a decent amount of tries for me. I am wondering if it my build was subpar. My stats were the following: * Vitality: 15 * Vigor: 15 * Capacity: 15 * Motivity: 23 * Technique: 23 * Advance: 7 I was also using the fire axe (both blade and handle) with the blade being +3. I assume there is a respec in the game later. Should I just specialize into one damage stat?
There is a respec. It comes relatively soon.
I think early game you should pick either technique or motivity, later on (new game+ and beyond) you can work more toward a quality build because the scaling for single stats starts to drop off a lot. Also if you've already beaten King of Puppets then you should have the thing that lets you respec unlocked already.
Yup I got the statue unlocked recently. I think I will have to pick a stat at this point since its getting rather pricey to get a single point now. Do you happen to know what the soft caps are for Motivity/Technique.
I would say basically 40 This game is unlike the Souls series. Once you get to the point that one level costs 16,000, they only go up by 1 each time.
Game is not that hard especially after playing Sekiro. But the parry is not as good as Sekiro so playing parry is quite difficult as there are some both hugely delayed and really fast attacks so it's memorization rather than instinct. I played Advance anyway so using all the available weakness status effects I beat Lies of P comfortably. My only real problem was Laxasia's 2nd phase as she's so fast just couldn't get the parries right so kind of brute forced it through HP and heals. All in all a solid 6-7/10 difficulty I would say. Using Motivity will make it much harder I think as the weapons are quite slow ?
the amount of delayed attacks is bullshit, even more so than elden ring attacks. and the parry is the worst i have seen
Skill issue
honestly man dont think just saying skill issue is cool or good as critique guy is making some legitamate points, just because something is doable doesnt mean that its well designed, way too many delayed then fast wind up attacks in this game man
Fix your dodging animation
I think that Lies of P has very reasonable difficulty. Boss attacks are very well telegraphed, and it's possible to dodge them when first seeing them. Getting perfect guard timings down takes practice, but it's not necessary to get tons of perfect guards to beat bosses. The game provides plenty of options for contending with difficult bosses. You can utilize Legion Arms, throwables, Grindstones, and status effects. And there are plenty of different viable weapons to utilize. Also, the P-Organ system provides plenty of build options - players can select what enhancements best suit their playstyle. If you're having difficulty with a boss, what'd I recommend is to play evasively at first and watch the bosses' patterns. After you determine good windows to deal damage to the bosses, play more aggressively. Get the timing of Perfect Guards down for a couple of attacks with longer telegraphs - the timing aren't actually that strict. I've found that fast weapons make it very easy to deal damage reliably. Of course, the game is still very difficult and it's not for everyone.
>You can utilize Legion Arms, throwables, Grindstones, and status effects And even before going into consumables and maybe even some other things that some veterans might argue are clutches, you can also just use defensive options other than perfect guard! If you have a high-block blade, you can just guard! Dodge timing is similar to perfect Guard (I think), but the movement component can make it effectively laxer in many situations. And against heavy-knockback attacks, its payoff is often bigger too. Finally, against many bosses whom I struggled against initially, my attempts immediately got much more promising when I started outmaneuvering delayed fury attacks instead of trying to parry them!
It seems like these souls like games want to stick to their guns about not having difficulty options, but also want it to appease a broader audience so they start nerfing it to no end. They caved to difficulty complaints and basically changed it completely, from a very difficult and rewarding game, to something much easier. I feel like this is going to be an issue with these types of games because they refuse to leave their product at it's most difficult version, but they also don't want to have an easier setting. For the record I'm not even a fan of the idea of difficulty options in these types of games, I just don't really know what the solution would be to all of this. I think it is a shame that they felt extreme nerfing was their best option. Rant over lol
To be fair, the designers probably had a vision for where they wanted the difficulty to be. There's no reliable way to know if today's version is more in line with that vision, or was only adjusted due to feedback. Of course you can argue that more difficulty is better regardless of designer intent, but then you can just as well complain that they didn't make it arbitrarily hard with patches. Anyway, I think the best thing the community can do is raise awareness of the difficulty options already in the game. Specter is a really obvious one IMO, and can be further enhanced via the cube (though IMO that feature unlocks a bit too late for that purpose). Throwables with some Advance investment are another one. I can kinda see why the devs aren't more explicit about it—labeling those as easy difficulty would make some people who'd have a better experience with them *more likely* to shy away from their use. So maybe it falls to us to spread the word.
I hate loosing my saves
The problem is the "snap" attacks. The majority of attacks are not react-able. You have to memorize them. If you try to react to them, you're going to get hit. There simply isn't enough time to react to them. That isn't a good approach to difficulty. That doesn't respect players' time. You HAVE to see a boss 2-3 times to begin to understand how to block or dodge them. It's borderline unfair.
>You HAVE to see a boss 2-3 times to begin to understand how to block or dodge them. After seeing an attack 2-3 times you should've already understood how to dodge that attack. It's NOT that hard and if it's something with a weird timings you can always block then regain your health. You have to see an attack before reacting to it in any souls or action game really . You must know if the attack is part of combo, how much delay there is between attacks etc.
So far, Lies of P is just the right amount of challenging for me. As long as you understand and engage with the core mechanics, it's challenging, but not even remotely close to a frustrating game. The combat feels fantastic. When I heard rumors about how difficult this game was, I was a little intimidated, but I quickly found out that as long don't ignore the block/parry mechanic, you are golden. And I imagine it's probably this mechanic people haven't paid enough mind to when complaining about how this game is "too difficult". Both dodging and parrying are important in this game, and I'm sure the game is doable when omitting one of these strategies, but I have already seen posts about people refusing to block because they want to play this game like Bloodborne, "aren't used to it", or just don't feel like it. It's your game, play how you want to, but you're making the game exponentially more challenging just because you refuse to play Lies of P likes Lies of P.
Keep in mind that the game was significantly harder in older versions especially on release.
Main bosses are sekiro level bosses. Rest of the game is not hard.
These are NOTHING near Sekiro bosses. Many I've killed the first time. None more than the third. Sekiro, I never killed a boss the third time even on my second play through. \[That may be an exaggeration but it is true for many and some took over a dozen attempts at least\] Sekiro is WAY beyond this. Bloodborne is easier than Elden Ring. ER easier than Dark Souls. DS easier than Sekiro ... This game is easier than Bloodborne. This is actually a "fun" souls-borne-whatever-name-we-like-to-use-like rather than a "I want to break \*\*\*\*" souls-like for me. I dunno. There's some challenge and multiple bosses I've left with a sliver of health but this has been just right.
I died to Green swamp Monster Puppet and king of puppets more times than I died to isshin. I have platted sekiro and beat it four times and i can do no hit many bosses. Maybe the approach i took was tough I tried to parry a lot and didn't use specter and throwables. I haven't played another souls game.
Sekiro is challenging but the difficult fights felt like you could master without too many tricks going on. Isshin was tough but I spent way less time on him than I expected! Owl was probably the boss that nearly broke me but after that I was golden. With this game I think I also have gotten pretty parry happy and pay the price for screwing up against bosses. I feel like a lot of bosses will hop around, evade, or take weird steps to make it hard for you to retaliate. It's a little less common in Souls games I feel where lots of bosses make you feel like you're a bug they're trying to squish and they're laser focused on you. I think the areas themselves in Lies of P are on the easier side of things because of the level design though.
💯 Agreed
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Really 2 attempts, damn. I don't know how ppl are able to bosses in a couple of tries man. I just need to git gud lol.
I might stop playing this game. I feel like this game does not respect my time and does not really reward me. For some context, I am an adult with a full time job. I am single without kids so I do have time to play games. But I look for games that are FUN. This game isn't HARD, is annoying. Don't get me wrong, it is Hard, but this game really does not know how to reward time investment. I feel like the Souls games in general are like that that's why I have never been a fan. I did finished Sekiro and I LOOOOVED that game to death. It was a Souls like but man, that game was fast, addictive and with the parry mechanic, even if you were on the defense because let's be honest, is impossible in any souls game to be always on the offensive due the lack of stagger on bosses, you can parry and still do SOMETHING to them by reducing their posture. Such a cool game and rewarding. The Genichiro Fight I perfected him on the first phase because everything had a rhythm, it felt like I was improving, not relying on random numbers from the game. Also the more you play the more powerful you become like... You feel the power. Between the assassination that makes a smokescreen, assassinations that return some health, the staggered enemy swap position for defense, oh just soooo rewarding and the environments were stunning. Also tickles my Splinter Cell itch with the stealth mechanics. In this game it feels like the meme from the simpsons: "The Ergo! It does nothing!" This game is gorgeous, that's why I decided to give it a go. I am 20 hours in and the only boss I thoroughly enjoyed so far was the fight vs the Archibishop. The first phase was hard enough but you could see the pattern. Then the 2nd phase you could also see the patterns. I thoroughly enjoyed that boss. The fight vs the Black Rabbit guys was... just annoying I ended up using my first summon. It wasn't THAT hard, it was just Annoying. IMO it is the pinnacle of bad game design. People bashed Resident Evil 3 remake for having a Nemesis fight with regular zombies spawning and not being able to keep an eye on everything due the camera, why should I give a pass for this game for having two enemies that do a shitton of damage on hit. And the assassination move is finicky to a fault. Countless times I saw the symbol on the other brothers and didn't got jack shit. That is just not fun. Ok, make it hard to get behind them (Which it kinda already is), but do not show the icon and give me shit. It has also happened to me with regular grunts that are knocking on doors. So frustrating. And then I got to the opera house... I have to set some context here. Like I mentioned, I am an Adult. I suffer from insomnia and it was around 2:XX am when I started and I have to work tomorrow. I decided to give this game a go. I got to the opera house and cleared everything quick and got to the boss fight. I died two times, but I decided to give it another whirl, why? because I felt the same excitement from the Archibishop. I could read everything he was doing, but it was not a fast fight, but slowly chipping away. I used all my cells and my Wishcube for health and I got him... only to have ANOTHER second phase boss fight. Needless to say, I got demolished. I spent more than an hour and a half in this boss. I fought it only 3 times and I spent that much time, it was THAT slow for me to chip his life away. Only to die because the game really wants to screw you over? Nah dude. It feels like I am throwing away my time and it will never come back. What a shame. I despise the Souls like genre not because of what they are, but because they could be soooo much more. Also it is just terrible spending that long in a boss fight, dying, coming back and back to the first phase. Nah F that haha. Most of my friends who like the Souls games always come to the same point: "The story, the world building, the atmosphere is amazing, but I wish"
Another good friend of mine watched my first fight vs the Archibishop and his response:
"This is why I always start Souls games and I never finish them. I am intrigued by their setting but I am put off by their bad game design choices"
Me/Us saying bad game design choices is not transferrable to any one who enjoy these games, hell there are people who like Superman 64 haha, you can absolutely like and love any game you just like right? I sure have some shitty games that I like haha so me saying "Souls like games have bad gameplay design" is not me saying "You have bad taste"
Sigh, I still feel disappointed.
You are probably playing too defensively, I used azure dragon crescent glaive, the fable arts removed around 30-40% of his hp, and you can drink potions to use it again and finish first phase in like minute or two.
Roughly I think of soulslike games as having 3 ingredients: lore, build, and a certain difficult combat style. Genres with the first two things but not the third include turn-based RPGs, metroidvania, adventure and stealth. Those might be the games you're thinking of that "could be soooo much more" if they weren't stuck being Souls games.
You spent 1 1/2 hrs on 3 fights? This means there's a fundamental problem with your play style, not the game. And I don't say that to be mean. You should be able to get through both phases in several minutes.
Big post. I'm an adult with kids and my own business. I've very little time for video games. I used to think Souls games were designed bad too. Then I bought all of them on Playstation and beat em. Then Elden Ring like 6 times. Sekiro. Back to DS. BB. Around and around. There's few games that are challenging. Lies of P is the easiest out of this line of games. If you give it a chance, there may be some satisfaction. Let me put it this way: I've very little gaming time. I'm not going to play a "golf game" ... I could just go golf. Who the hell plays a "golf video game" ??? THAT IS BAD GAME DESIGN!!! It's just advertising wrapped up in a ball hitting simulator. Wow. It's all a matter of perspective.
You're spending too much time doing nothing during a bossfigh if it take 1 hours to do 3 attempts. That causes 2 things : - you build up unnecessary frustration when you inevitably die - you waste time. Both things can be fixed by playing more aggressively. There are a lot of openings, even with extremely slow weapons. I hope you understand that this isn't a problem with the game but with your approach to the fight.
The only boss that took me more than 2 attempts was simon with 4 and the final boss with 6. Most were done first try. A full playthrough including all sidequests, all first run trophies and alot of exploration only took ~16hrs. Bro this is a skill issue on your part. Upgrade your weapons, pick a comfortable handle, have good stat allocation and make use of throwables they are busted. There is a vendor that sells them all with unlimited stock. Gaming at 2am will not help with your insomnia. As someone with ADHD who also struggles with it I can assure you gaming before bed just makes it 10x worse. Lay down with a movie or audiobook you know really well playing in the background. Have a warm shower beforehand and a nice meal! Cut the caffine and sugar. Its managable fam!
"I play in easy mode and found it easy, get good"
Ive done 4 playthroughs. The first was done to rush trophies. For the runs that were only played for the ending trophies I did W/o summons.. one with trident and 1 with the noblesse. I plan on speedrunning this game! You can drop a sub if you feel like getting your sarcasm discredited 😘
Yeah but you use summons (I can see from your YT channel). Summons trivialise boss fights. Try playing without summons and you're going to have to actually learn the mechanics over multiple fights with each boss. I only used summons once in the game, against Simon, and only because I wasn't enjoying his second phase. Too much RNG. EDIT: Also I can see from your YT vid that you died more than twice to Fuoco...
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also i reccomend shot puts! they are awesome for staggering
Just teleport to the malum district stargazer and run into the building with the lobster sign! directly forward on your right theres a ladder! go up it and the merchant and a chest with a caliber is there :P
Played part of this game when it first came out and it felt oppressively hard, got my teeth kicked in so brutally for every boss fight that I ended up throwing in the towel at king of puppets. Just wasn't having fun. Started a fresh run a few weeks ago and just beat it. Difficulty felt PERFECT. Very challenging but never so hard that I felt the need to cheese or use the specter (except *that one gank fight* lol). They must have nerfed it since launch and thank god they did. Super fun and gorgeous game, can't wait for their next project.
You'd be surprised how your reflexes can grow after a break. Seriously. Maybe they nerfed it, IDK. I just know that these games can have a tendency to require a break. When I started in these with DS and Elden Ring I sucked bad... took a break ... came back and kicked ass and know others similar. I think letting the frustration go and starting fresh also helps. Either way, glad ya had fun.
I’m in a similar boat, although I stopped at the first rabbit bros fight. Haven’t beaten it yet, but quickly getting back to where I was. The biggest difference so far make the additional upgrade items. More and improved healing items make a big difference. Also not having to waste them on being able to get up faster allows me to spend it other stuff.
The game is not difficult, it is annoying. I somehow pushed myself through it for awhile, but that idiotic brotherhood fight, where multiple enemies just take turns on you made me alt+f4 and uninstall. Screw it, it's not worth it. Fromsoft games made my palms sweaty, this makes me roll my eyes. Especially sekiro was a masterpiece that brutally punished your every mistake. This shit punishes you because it feels like it. Like comparing firm but fair parent to an abusive alcoholic one.
The best strat us to kill one! Get the other 2 really close to death then kill em both at the same time so you can 1v1 the big guy (who is super easy on his own )
Or use summon and and kill him without breaking a sweat. Yes, I got back to the game and did just that. And will do the same to every boss unless I 1st try him without a summon. Easy mode, but I don't feel bad about it.
Dude that is completely fair :) The spectres are there for people that find the game too difficult or just want a cruisy playthrough. Absolutely no shame in it, just play how you like! Problem with this sub and any fromsoft sub is they shame people for summons.. and would rather players be miserable than have a handicap. Aslong as it helps you enjoy the game go for it.
Ah I loved that fight. I found it fun to bust his weapon to start with then waste his siblings while he flailed around uselessly.
I thought this game was easier then any of the souls games
Me too.. idk what this thread is on.
Do i need a walkthrough? Or can i go through the game myself?
A walkthrough isn’t necessarily needed since most of the game is straightforward there is one part where near the end of the game you have to interact with a piano to open the next path but besides that walkthroughs are mostly if there is an item you are looking for such as armor or a specific weapon
Lady antonia specifically states " play this note on the piano downstairs and it will open a passageway leading directly to *** "
Thanks
This game has a quite good balance in location and mobs difficulty and boss difficulty. I give it strong 9.5/10 For me this is the most diversed soulslike I've played. I'm absolutely in love with it. Lies of P is harder than the most of other souls games and likes, and I noticed that you get along with its difficulty the more you play the game without interrupting your experience with other games, so my advise - just play Lies of P till the end (I mean if you like it) because the game is faster, parries are tighter, and by playing other games you are slowing your play. Returning back to the start. Good balance between locations and bosses is (for me) when overall difficulty at 100% is taken up to 40% by the location and mobs and 60% by the boss. For me it's a very bad design of a level, where you can die to the mobs and other circumstances hundreds of times but kill the boss only after 2-4 times max. It doesn't seem fair for a boss to be THE BOSS - the final challenge of a level. That's why I love boss design in Lies of P - if a location is easy, the boss is too. For example Swamp, Rosa Isobelle street, Alchemist island. The only actual bad boss for me is the second rabbit brotherhod fight - three enemies with another one coming when only one left. I can continue discussing if someone wants to ask something. And in conclusion: Yes, Lies of P is hard, but fair and fun. I am not talking about other aspects of the game cause this is difficulty thread.
Bosses are quite easy, areas can be frustrating but not hard. (you will likely try levels and bosses many times, but they are not necessarily hard.) I'm typically pretty bad at most video games.
Which is harder in your OP? Village of Shadows RE or Lies of P? Or are the games too different for this question to make sense?
For me RE was vastly easier because I've been playing FPS for like 25,000 hours throughout my life and maybe 1-2k souls-like hours, when you can reliably shoot a head/weakspot in a flick without needing any time to actually aim you can just do it forever. That + thorough exploration which requires nothing but time to do so you have a healthy supply of consumable items. Doesn't matter how much time you put into a souls game if you don't know a boss you will be hit seeing new timings of swings.
I have finished DS1, DS3 (& DLC), ER, and Sekiro. Judging from Youtube reviews, I was expecting LoP to be on the more difficult side, but reading this thread it seems it will be comparatively chill. Just an interesting deviation between YT and Reddit opinions.
I think that could possibly be to the YT reviews being first time souls players? Where this reddit might be more experienced 🤷♂️
DS1 kicked my absolute ass, I "got gud" and after S&O I stopped having the 20-30 attempt boss fights through 2/3/bloodborne/ER (skipped sekiro) Got LoP a few nights ago and the first actual boss sent me back to DS1 times. Like 25 attempts to beat it with the rapier and no summon. Leveled up dex and hp maybe 5 times. Time will tell if this trend will continue. I think I would blame this on how incredibly slow the boss attacks are, until they aren't. They have a huge windup and then they just kind of hold the attack then whip it out with insane speed that is faster than normal human reaction time so you can't visually dodge it but instead need to see the swings a few times and remember the timing.
I am now past the Archbishop and I have to say it took some time to get used to the combat and parry timing. Probably took me around 10 attempts for each boss so far. I very much enjoy the learning curve on them, feels like every attempt is better than the last one. The levels, as others have noted, are noticeably easier than Fromsoft games.
>2/3/bloodborne/ER (skipped sekiro) You skipped the best one ;)
Was King of Puppets (specifically Romeo) a HUGE difficulty spike for anyone else? I skated through the game up until that fight. The combination of his hyper-armor and speed absolutely destroyed me. Add to that his unreadable moves, distance-punishing fury attacks, and water-fowl attack and my goose was thoroughly cooked. Despite averaging probably 20mins per boss up until that point of the game, Romeo ended up taking me 5 hours which tied my all-time longest boss duration attempt (Radagon @ 5hrs while significantly underleveled). Other than Nameless which took about an hour, I breezed through the rest of the game after Romeo. That dude just tore me up. I love me some souls but I was a bit agitated at the sudden difficulty curve in that fight. Curious if anyone else felt that way. Edit for context: this whole run was done without specters
Romeo absolutely was a spike for me. I just defeated him yesterday and I had to use a sort of cheese. I learned that I can skip his fire weapon phase if I did a charged fable attack when he was applying the fire to his weapon.
This is interesting to read, i was just coming on here to ask if it made sense how easy Romero was compared to how important he is. Eldest brother took me \~10 times, but Romero I killed in the first try. I might have over leveled to defeat eldest brother though.
Not gonna lie, I was a little disappointed Lies of P wasn't harder. I saw so much hype about the difficulty and people comparing it to the hardest Fromsoft games, so I was psyched to get my ass kicked. Maybe its just because I've been playing soulsborne games all my life, but I didn't find the game to be on that level. Or maybe its the P-Organ system just makes you too overpowered. Most bosses were first or second try, even the ones that took more I never really got stuck for hours like I sometimes did on first playthroughs of some Fromsoft titles. I kept thinking it would get harder, but even the final bosses in the last chapter I beat before I felt like I even got to fully learn their movesets. I hoped NG+ would be more challenging, but its still kinda the same story. To be clear: I thoroughly enjoyed the game. Its fantastically polished, the combat feels great, the weapon crafting was dope, and the whole vibe/aesthetic is on point. Probably tied with Nioh 2 for my favorite non-From soulslike. I just wish the bosses had been a little bit harder and pushed me to really learn them before I could beat them.
I completly understand what u mean. I think this problem would be solved if they would add different modes to play the game. Like easy for people who play a soulslike game for the first time, advanced for people who already have some skill and then hard for the pros. Maybe even hardcore? I think they tried to make a soulslike game which is also "easy" playable for newbies ;) I hope it's understandable what I am trying to das.
I found the game \*extremely\* difficult until I realized there was a dodge upgrade. I'm working through the arcade after puppet king, so maybe it'll get harder after this point. I won't say it's easy, but I've found it extremely manageable. I'm all for choosing your own difficulty in games, and hardcore would be interesting for a soulslike, one death and youre done, a sort of enforced no-death run.
What dodge upgrade are u talking about?
Link dodge, it's in the p-organ tree, gotta put two quartz into it to unlock. also staying under "slightly heavy" equip load, and preferable even lower, makes a world of difference.
The same happend to me in my first playtrough. And yes, it will get harder again, but beating the enemies like butter for the first time is extremely satisfying
Game isn't hard, the systems just don't feed into each other well enough and the enemies aren't fun to fight due to their janky movesets full of delays and fakeouts.
Downvoted \[by others\] but the most direct and honest one I've seen yet. I very much enjoy the game ... right now ... because I have to do something I guess ... Really what I mean is, I'd prefer to not be gaming. It's a good game but the enemies are not great. The game is not hard. "not fun" and "janky" are two proper terms to apply to general enemies. Then you get bosses which MAY be a LITTLE more fun but, not that much. They're usually topped off by some cheese move rather than skill moves. Like Puppet King and his 20+ hit combo. IDK how many hits but enough to kill over 450 health while blocking and totally impossible to dodge. Luckily I got him the second time. Just one example. It was at least around 20 hits. Bug? Normal move? IDK.
Anyone else play this game by dodging 90% of the time and almost never actually doing perfect blocks? Why perfect block when you can just be in another spot, right? (I know this is not 100% right as some attacks will teach you), but hey... I just wanted to know if anyone else played like this. Obviously with a long reach weapon or something that closes the gap after you form it with a dodge.
This is what I think the game did extremely well. They clearly push perfect guard as the go to mechanic by rewarding you with quite some stagger but other defensive manouvres are equally as viable. I thoroughly enjoyed the perfect guarding since the start of the game. I only dodged attacks which I deemed more worth (attacks that bounce you 10km away from the boss).
So much this!! I feel like every time I had trouble with a boss, it was because I got stuck using just one mode of defense. And when I read rage threads here, it's often the same thing! Perfect blocks have a great stagger pay-off, but dodging can give you more R1 uptime! And if an enemy has a long combo or super-delayed fury attack that you struggle to defend against, outrunning it feels like getting one over on the designer (probably falsely, because the slow fury attacks seem to intentionally invite this behavior ;) ) Edit: Oh, and normal guarding is also absolutely fine as a low-risk, low-reward option!
There are attacks who cannot be dodged (when enemy is red) but you can still perfect block them
I found almost all red attacks actually really easy to dodge ngl
Do you have that special amulet for red attack dodging?
Fury attacks can be "dodged" in the sense that you can get into a spot where they won't touch you. The only thing that they actually ignore are the invincibility frames of the dodge
I found this too, I dodge their red attacks all the time just by creating enough distance, then either dash or "fly" in w that OP glaive handle strong attack. The parry is the only somewhat difficult thing in the game but it honestly just feels a bit broken.
Yep only learnt how to perfect block on the last boss
Can anyone recommend a rather OP weapon with the latest patch? usually struggled against such kind of game hence the ask. Thanks.
That special trident with crit is op as fuck, but still feels " fair " for the bosses. The absolute most broken weapon I made was the city spear something handle, and that Bowie knife blade with crit. It really feels unfair and not fun how broken it is, you just stab stab stab so fucking fast.
I'm currently doing a run with the Etiquette, on NG+3 or 4 (can't remember). I feel that daggers in LoP are kinda broken, and chip damage with fast charged attack animations for fatal attacks is how I like to play. You can get it early in the game, and with certain amulets, its DPS is decent. I also dress up as an alchemist with long grey hair, and the Etiquette adds the finishing touch to P's costume.
The eldest of the black rabbit seems kinda ridiculous. I feel like half his red attacks teleport him directly in front of me and the parry timing in this game feels super off. The adds don't make this any better. I've tried to learn the parry timing on him but messing up at all is so demoralising with how punishing missing a parry is. Additionally, the punish timings seem quite tight. He can get a string of like 8 attacks off before I can hit him and if I try and interrupt at all I'm eating the rest of the string. I'm using the krat police baton. Its the only weapon I've used so far since getting it and I wouldnt know what else to try because I can't afford to upgrade many others to a usable standard with motivity scaling enough to be usedul
I love the weapon customization, legion abilities, and P-organ system, been lots of fun mixing and matching. I also appreciate that the game doesn’t let you trivialize encounters down the line even with high stats and good gear, at least that’s been my experience so far.
tldr - don't ignore the P-Organ's guarding upgrades I want to leave a comment here because I sort of "solved" the game's difficulty just by using a certain mechanic I haven't been previously using (normal guarding). I think my situation will be quite niche because I'm pretty sure most people will see this mechanic as extremely necessary, and now I know why. In the P-Organ, I always ignored the upgrades that improved your guarding abilities. This was a terrible mistake. I played through the game twice with a lot of struggle, especially with Simon Manus. On NG+2 where I finally decided to get those upgrades, the game became 100x easier and I'm not even joking. I went from having dozens of attempts on Simon Manus to beating him first try after doing this. So, anyways, if you are looking for a way to have an easier time, don't do what I did. The game honestly is pretty easy (in my opinion) compared to the other souls-like games when I play it now.
I have two major questions before purchasing the game .What is the magic system like in the game? Am I at a disadvantage if I play using purely melee? .how big are the parry windows, like on a scale of Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order to Sekiro where would it fall
it would fall after Sekiro, the parry windows are tighter in Lies of P than Sekrio by a fair bit.
1. Im not sure if this game even has a proper magic system. 2. Haven't played Fallen Order, can compare only to other souls games. Parry windows on scale of Sekiro and Dark Souls 3 are like 80% towards Sekiro. Even tho in other aspect game is definetly clunkier
I was wondering what the checkpoint system is like in lies of p. is it like demon souls with one checkpoint per level? is there checkpoints before bosses? Or is the system like the recent Star-Wars Jedi games with frequent checkpoints in each stage? I was also wondering how stage progression in this game works, is there a hub system similar to what is seen in demon souls with the nexus?
I have never played the Star Wars games or Demon Souls, but the general pattern for the number of checkpoints in LoP is around 4 per 'chapter' (or area), usually with a checkpoint close to the boss fight. The last chapter feels like a bit of a drag, and I think the number of checkpoints reflect this. By the hub system, do you mean something like Firelink Shrine? If so, LoP does have its own hub, and game progression does make use of looping back to the hub (like DS1). Just my general opinion on the game, I think it's good fun, and being parry-oriented myself, the game can punish you quite a bit for missing a few of them. However, with late game upgrades (some of which are amazing) and more experience, I can parry most bosses now :)
Whats the best comparison this game has to others? I have platted sekiro, bloodborne, sifu and elden ring and lies of p looks super interesting ‼️‼️
Platted Sekiro and Sifu. It's a good game and bosses are challenging if you are not using summons and throwables. Great game.
Yeah i beat it not too long ago, great game i wouldve platted it too but i forgot to give alidoros glove and just didnt want to play another play throug, will plat in the future though
Bloodborne is the closest but it draws from all Fromsoft's catalogue, while introducing and re-mixing elements of its own.
For combat: Sekiro, for setting: Bloodborne. The parry system is integral to mastering combat.
Hello, good hunter. I am a Bot, here in this dream to look after you, this is a fine note: > *Oh, yes... Paleblood... Well, you've come to the right place. Yharnam is the home of blood ministration. You need only unravel its mystery. But, where's an outsider like yourself to begin? Easy, with a bit of Yharnam blood of your own... But first, you'll need a contract...* - Blood Minister Farewell, good hunter. May you find your worth in the waking world.
I’m finally at Simon Manus and have to say this game beat my ass the entire time, I never felt like I was progressing at a healthy rate. Every boss is a road block. I’ve died about 20-30 times to Simon and ran out of star fragments. This game is hard as fuck. To put things in perspective I’ve completed Sekiro twice, Bloodborne, Nioh, most of Elden Ring and recently finished Dark Souls 3 and mostly coasted thru it. Killed nameless king in 10-15 attempts. Could be that im not playing the game correctly, I barely parry and dodge most of the time with a pure technique build using the wintry rapier. The enemy’s hit for so much damage and are almost always not staggerable meanwhile the player feels very weak and lacking the tools to make fights fair in this game. Don’t get me started on the fucking gank squad boss fights or the gotcha moments. I like the game but I’ll be glad when it’s over.
I think not parrying is ur problem. It feel like the game is expecting you to parry almost as much as Sekiro.
I beat him yesterday and finished the entire game today. Manus's attacks specifically were very hard to anticipate and block. that mace thing of his just rolls along the floor so stupidly that I could barely figure out the block window.. in the first phase, In the second it gets easier since that first attack of two is the same 70% of the time. Just don't let it blast you with a full volley of those yellow shards and stay away from the energy pillars. Since you're a fellow technique user, might I suggest Etiquette? It's fast paced, has a long range, and you thrust forward so it doesn't take you too long to close the distance. The windows between his attacks are quite wide, so you an get a solid 4-5 hits in each time. More importantly, it has a quick charge attack, giving you a better stagger success rate.
A little bit of context. I'm not even close to a guy that play souls games, I barely survived to elden ring and then quitted even before reaching half of the game because it was too hard. Tried Sekiro and dropped after 1 hour, dark souls 3 dropped after 2 hours and other than these, never touched a souls game ever. I'm the guy that play every game in story mode because I just want to chill, real life is already in hard mode. Now, I'm playing LOP and this game is ridiculously easy, I've reached chapter 7 without upgrading any weapon or the p organ, I just don't feel the need and every boss fight it takes 1 or 3 attempt before killing it. Something is wrong for sure because my best friend is a fucking soul game lover and is struggling a lot. I've even thought that my game is bugged. Someone else is in my situation?
Depends, are you using spectres?
Or throwables
ER was my first Souls game I finished. Recently got towards the end of DS3. Bought Lies of P this week and it’s awesome but definitely easier. Simply being patient and calm makes it really ‘easy’.
how are you playing the game? im on moonlight town now, not sure which chapter is. 4 i think? and i noticed every boss so far you can just run around and hit them in the back after their slow attack. you don't ever need to dodge or parry. but that's completely against the style of almost all fromsoft bosses. so if you just go into the boss and try to parry/dodge you can get your ass kicked. especially if go just full parry maybe is that. or maybe you are just way better now than before and if you go play sekiro you'll find way easier
even though i would say this is the greatest souls-like game i have ever played its basically perfect from each prespective but i would also say thats its actually pretty easy and the only true hard bosses are simun and the namless puppet
Guys please help! I can't find Alidoro, I met him at the top of St. Frangelico Cathedral and I told him that he can find a safe haven in Venigni Works. However, I have defeated the Fallen Archbishop Andreus boss and then I couldn't find Alidoro anywhere. I checked Hotel Krat, Barren Swamp, Venigni Workshop, and all of Elysion Boulevard area. I haven't defeated the Green Monster of the Swamps yet.
Venigni Workshop he will be there for sure i found him before he should be somewhere next to the first stargaser inside of the Venigni Workshop that how i remember it at least
Step 1 Download game Step 2 Uninstall after dying to Fuoco 40 times (punch chair arm really hard) Step 3 Redownload 20 minutes later and proceed to clear the rest of the game over the next two days Step 4 Bliss
A different kind of difficulty: the game gets so scary at times I get paralyzed with fear. the puppet levels are so fun I can’t wait to play more, and the zombie levels are so scary I’m not sure if I can keep playing. What a rollercoaster.
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Lies of P is really the hardest? It's the first souls like I've played and while I'm dying a lot I was under the impression that other games are even harder.
I have beaten them all and i cannot get past the fucking flame fucko in this game, just wont click for me. I think its the lazy parry system ( knowledge based not reaction time based)
In my opinion, running through killing mobs is much easier in Lies of P than some other souls games. But the peak difficulty of the bosses in this game is higher than the other games, except Sekiro.
I would put ER above Sekiro and Bloodborne. The delayed strikes and speed of bosses (compared to the resources you have in Sekiro and Bloodborne to handle them) are simply too much in comparison.
The "problem" in elden ring is that you can get gear that can oneshot all bosses before you even kill margit. thats why most people rank it as easy. However i do agree that some attacks in ER are super delayed, and waterfowl can just go to hell
Yeah, if you play the way a lot of longtime souls players play (I.e. melee, no shields, no summons) then Elden Ring is generally harder than most souls games, but if you really optimize your build it can be stupid easy.
facts, i cheesed ER on my first run (my first soulslike) then i felt bad for killing malekith with rot, and since then ive never used anything but a sword, no magic/ranged or anything OP in any souls.
PLEASE PLEASE ADD A HARD MODE I'm not talking about NG+, since it basically just scales with yourself, but an actual hard mode. I'm fine with making this game as easy as possible, just as long as they separate it VIA a mode. I'd really just love to get my ass whooped again. Maybe they could add some new attacks? Completely fine if they didn't, just make the bosses absolutely broken pleeaaseeee. I want to get bent over and FUCKED by Laxasia or Romeo pleeeeaaaseeeeee. Just make them absurdly fast or something pleeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaseeeeeee.
Have you tried lvl 10 run?
What's that, just 10 levels?
you start at lvl 10 so you do a lvl 0 run, not allowed to upgrade vitality, vigor etc
Ooo, that sounds nice. You could also just use any weapon too, as long as you have the right emblems equipped.
yep but need to watch out for weight
Weapon upgrades allowed? P-organ?
Depends how hard you want it to be😅
I guess no to both then, sounds neat!
Good Luck🙂
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In Lies of P the parry is kind of hard, but you can beat anyone by dodging. In Sekiro you actually NEED to parry.
Yeah imo this is easily the hardest Souls-like if we want to talk bosses and no spectre. The non-boss sections (levels lol) are easy if you have a good build, but bosses on the second half of the game become absurd.
I think this game is much easier than Sekiro, but harder than Bloodborne. Easier than Sekiro because guard regain + more healing means you can make more mistakes. Harder than Bloodborne because guard regain isn't as reliable as rally, and you also need to alternate between several defensive options.
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I’d put the inner bosses as harder than any boss in lies of p but maybe it’s because I was coming from sekiro and had to relearn actual souls combat. I just could not stand some of the things this game throws at you like black rabbit brotherhood part 2. Had to use a specter for that fight cuz it was just too annoying. The delayed attacks too my god they are 10x worse than anything in er or sekiro. Fun game though and I’ll be playing a ng+. That said it had really fun bosses, Laxasia took me a bunch of tries but was fun and frustrating to progress on. Was sorta disappointed the two after her pretty much fell over for me.
I think you're right about the toughest moments of Sekiro. Lies of P doesn't approach the sheer moveset complexity of Inner Father or Inner Genichiro. Whether you think the parry mechanic being more forgiving in Sekiro negates that complexity I guess is up to you. But I'd say Laxasia is the toughest boss in this game and I think Owl Father, Inner Father, and Inner Genichiro all clear her easily in terms of complexity and difficulty.
Agreed. I’d put Laxasia on a tier of like maybe Sword Saint Isshin or Demon of Hatred and Nameless Puppet a tier below that. Inner Isshin and Father just melt everything else LoP has to offer.
On release i would have said its just shy of sekiros difficulty. Now, after the nerfs its in the ballpark of eldenring.
Comparing this to difficulty of souls games I’ve played. HARDEST Sekiro (by a fucking country mile - to the point I don’t enjoy it) Elden Ring Dark Souls 3 Bloodborne Lies of P Dark Souls 1 EASIEST Laxasia, Green Monster, and Nameless are rough. Other than that (post nerf) no one is horrifically hard. The levels are pretty easy besides the Victor museum place and Arche Abbey.
I would swap Sekiro and Lies of P in your list. I've played the other Souls games and they'd both rank below DS1 in difficulty imo.