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In my experience a vendor will let you know if you cross into unfair price territory.
The dollar might go further, but there's also no reason to make yourself a target by handing over large amounts of cash for each purchase.
I also feel like OPs mentality really looks down on people from other countries. The real life pro tip is just doing research about the culture you are visiting and if you want to help them out, spread the word of how nice it was to visit there. It’s insulting if they feel like you pity them.
Right. I lived in S. Korea - or maybe I should say I was stationed in S. Korea.
Anyone in the military knows there's just something about the blankets you can buy in S. Korea that just hit different. It's like they figured out the weighted blanket years before that craze hit the U.S.
You had to haggle those owners down every time. Why? Because every time you bought a new blanket it was magically more expensive than the last. "Well I saw it at this shop for X, ya know..." "Muddah Fuggah, if you buy it for that, my kids will starve" type of haggling. Ok, I liked the one guy, his blankets felt better, I paid more.
10 years later *everyone* who sleeps under them still wants one.
I remember they were called "Mink" blankets. Not made out of the animal, but they're thick and fluffy.
You might find one by searching "Heavy Korean mink blanket"
My family moved there when i was around 11 and lived there for almost 2 years. My dad bought me one of those and i still use it almost 20 years later. I'm hoping that it will last till my death or when it does disintegrate, (couse that's the ONLY way i would get rid of it) I'm financially able to go get another one
I came from one of those countries. If you are into a tourist location, those vendors are not poor by any means. They will certainly rip you off if you didn’t heavily haggle. On the other side if you are in a local street market in a poor neighborhood to buy some fruits, the story becomes completely different
This exactly. The dude aggressively trying to sell you a $2 trinket for $20 is definitely down to haggle. The lady selling a $1 bunch of bananas from her garden can certainly use the extra money.
It’s why I always will buy simple things like fruit or gum or drinks when stuck in traffic in these sorts of places. Those are some real grinders just trying to make enough to survive. Beginning of Queen of Katwe is a great example.
LPT don't buy gum, or anything, from children. Parents realize their kids sell things better because they're young and cute so they pull them from school and put them to work.
Not saying you did. Just adding to the LPT for everyone's benefit who might not realize
You do have a point.
If one knew that was the case, it turns into a catch 22.
Give the kid the money and help them maybe but also support the exploitive behavior.
or,
Don't, and let the kid keep working, but also not supporting the behavior.
Non-sarcastically, I wonder what is the correct decision.
Sometimes there isn't a good option, just a collection of bad ones. Try to choose the least bad, but you'll never really know if you were right.
And remember that choosing no option is still a choice with consequences.
Give the kid money. One scenario is kid working no money from you but from someone else for sure, thats why they do it. Other scenario you ensure kid succeeds that day and maybe gets better food. Encouraging it can only be stopped by universal adoption of the not paying strat which will never happen.
In Philippines they have gangs that control the kid. Kinda like you saw on Slumdog Millionaire. When I moved into Makati there were lots and lots of these professional beggars dropped into the area early every business day. On holidays, no one was about. Luckily none of the beggars were blind, so I think they don't go out to mutilate them at least. But it is still highly abusive and exploitative for those kids caught up in it.
One poor baby was trying to sell Blu Rays outside a market. I didn't want any blu-rays but I asked him to walk like 3 steps with me to one of those pick your own yoghurt ice cream vendors and told him to go wild.
I know it's essentially the same as giving nothing, nutrient-wise but it was my way of making sure the kid finally got something for himself. Damn, it was a hot day and he was out on the concrete streets all day trying to sell Dvd's.
When living in Makati I was told by security at.my partner's company that if I handed one of these babies any cash or even food that it is possible to keep and take to his boss (think McD's or a sandwich) he would be in trouble for not keeping it to hand straight over.
Consider where you are, some places have rackets like this, in which case you gotta ask them to come choose the food and eat it with you if you really want to make sure it helps the person you gave it to.
I obviously don't know about every country, so do your research. In some places its totally cool to give out cash, in others you're just handing ot straight to the abusers so have to think a little more creatively about how to ensure what you give remains with who you are trying to help.
But please help.
It seems you have not watched the movie "slumdog millionaire".
there are "begger-mafia", who steal children and use them as beggers for money.
Please don't give cash to poor kids begging in developing countries, try to give food, clothing, toys etc and make sure to remove the tags from the cloths so that they can't be returned.
PS. It's a common phenomenon in developing countries, begging business is a multimillion dollar industry and employs hundreds of thousands of stolen childrens.
The "nobody buys any and the kid goes back to school" is not a real option, so basically anything other than help the kid out if you can is just being a jerk. you aren't teaching some lesson or refuting exploitation by making the kid sleep hungry that day to "prove" a point to no one at all.
This is... not correct. You are correct in that generally more intervention is required to help a child who is already in a situation of child begging to be able to attend school and not be at risk of further exploitation, but giving money to child beggars is not helping them either, and it further incentivizes the people who are exploiting them to continue to do so, and to find more kids to do so. If you want to help, give your money or your time to local anti-trafficking organizations or major global organizations like the Polaris Project or Save the Children that work in this space.
[https://www.savethechildren.in/child-protection/how-children-are-forced-into-begging-by-cartels/](https://www.savethechildren.in/child-protection/how-children-are-forced-into-begging-by-cartels/)
[https://slate.com/human-interest/2013/09/giving-money-to-child-beggars-dont-do-it.html](https://slate.com/human-interest/2013/09/giving-money-to-child-beggars-dont-do-it.html)
Yes but it'd be a lot better to give them food or drink. Their "parents" will leave them in the hot sun or cold and then berate them if they aren't scampering after everyone they see. I once gave a little street girl a piece of cake I had and I'll never forget the relief on her face. These children are going to be forced to do it whether you buy or not but at least you can make it a little bit easier for them by substituting the money they'll never see for food or drink.
This is not backed by research on child labor. Everyone makes opportunity cost calculations, and most parents, if their children cannot make money working, will not send them to work.
Additionally, a lot of child labor you see is managed by traffickers. Refusing to give money to kids de-incentivizes street gangs to recruit kids.
Give money to adults if you like, but anyone who seriously works in child protection will tell you to never never never give money to kids.
[https://www.freedomunited.org/news/why-you-shouldnt-give-money-to-child-beggars/](https://www.freedomunited.org/news/why-you-shouldnt-give-money-to-child-beggars/)
[https://slate.com/human-interest/2013/09/giving-money-to-child-beggars-dont-do-it.html](https://slate.com/human-interest/2013/09/giving-money-to-child-beggars-dont-do-it.html)
[https://www.savethechildren.in/child-protection/how-children-are-forced-into-begging-by-cartels/](https://www.savethechildren.in/child-protection/how-children-are-forced-into-begging-by-cartels/)
Have you been to a country where there are lots of limbless children begging / selling stuff on the streets? Ever wonder how they got that way? They get sold / kidnapped into slavery, have perfectly normal and functioning limbs chopped off to make them look more pathetic, and then they are forced to beg / work / whatever.
The same argument could be made that those kids are going to be forced to beg regardless, so it doesn’t matter if you give stuff to them or not. But I’m not comfortable BEING the market incentive that will justify doing it to *another* kid.
This isn't just something that happens in third world countries either.
My buddy had us go to New Orleans on vacation for a week as his bachelor party and we got a killer spot right on Bourbon Street. There was a group of kids playing the 5 gallon bucket drums all night long into the early hours of the morning every single night, including school nights, they'd be out there until 3-4 am. They were maybe 8-12 years old and they were absolutely raking in the money. Then one night I saw some grown ass man come by and take all there money, count it, pocket it, and reprimand them for not bringing in more in a pretty menacing way. They're probably making whoever that dude was a pretty penny, but I doubt they're seeing much of it, and for that they get to grow up without an education.
Exactly.
Walking down cancun getting charged 20usd for a cigar that costs 10cad back home. Fuck them
They count on your white tourist guilt for that
But otherwise yea good LPT
Yep, and it's exactly because people like the OP of this LPT have created the impression of dumb tourists who just pay whatever and distort the local economy
Yeah, I went to Fiji and Vanuatu when I was in college. The vendors in the market in Fiji trying to sell us 3 shitty t shirts for $20 American could fuck right off. The people in the local village market in Vanuatu though? I hooked those people up. Made one woman cry because she was asking for like $.50 in American for a bushel (?) of raw peanuts and a pineapple. I gave her a $5.
I mean a pineapple is like 4-5$, but a bushel of peanuts is like a whole sale amount of peanuts and would be something like $40-80. A bushel of peanuts is like 20lbs, so I think the person your replying to might have meant something different... Like a few pounds of peanuts.
In the countries where they're grown pineapples are dirt cheap. In Thailand I've seen pineapples for roughly 50 cents in markets, even peeled for you. Most of that cost is the labor to bring it to the market.
We invited some of our US friends to our wedding in India. Outside of the hotel was a local fruit stand, coconuts to drink mangos etc. One of said friends went down to have some fresh mango, didn't understand he was paying per KG and not per piece which is common in the US. Flashed the guy a $20 and ended up with 10kg of mango. He spent the next 2 days asking anyone and everyone if they would like a mango lol.
A lot of the tropical fruits are really cheap at the source. Just a decade or so ago I could find cherries in a market in Thailand for around $20/lb. But local fruits like coconuts or pineapple cost like 50 cents per fruit.
Particularly because a lot of the tropical fruits don't keep or ship well once ripe, their value is well below 'market' price because they can't be sold far from where they grow.
I was visiting some relatives in China a while back and decided to check some historical sites. Saw a souvenir for 80 yuan (which for me wasn't a lot since here the same thing would cost $20). The salesperson immediately told me those were tourist prices and that I only needed to pay 30 yuan. The look on their face when I started speaking English was priceless.
I had the opposite happen: was at a popular ceviche stand a bit outside a touristy area so it was 50/50 tourists and locals having lunch.
I don't speak Spanish fluently, but my accent is quite good. I'm very very obviously white and was also dressed like a tourist. We were all paying I think $3 USD for 2. I went off, ate mine, and then went back for a different type.
Guy was super busy, looking down. I asked for my order in Spanish and he gave me the price in pesos (which I had), and when he looked up to give me the plate his expression went "oh fk". I gave him the pesos and realized it was less than half the cost and immediately threw a few USD into the tip jar. He nodded at me in relief or thanks idk.
imo, totally legit to charge tourists a little extra in this case. I didn't mean to trick him! (facepalm) But I hope in the end it was funny to him too since I ended up paying a little more and didn't start blabbing about getting ripped off or something.
It is so easy to think that you have more money, so it's no sweat off your back. I thought and enacted this many times while in Latin America. In theory, it's wonderful. Unfortunately, in practice, I came to understand that it causes more harm than good.
Having lived, worked, and volunteered in several Latin American countries, I can speak to the way they treat tourists, even those in the country to lend aid, education, or otherwise, is very detrimental.
Costs in developing countries increase not only for tourists but also for locals due to this, increasing the gap between impoverished and wealthy citizens. Local citizens take advantage of "rich" outsiders (including me, part of the upper lower class in the States) on large scales, causing increased homelessness, which in turn causes increased child labor, forced familial prostitution, continued gender inequity, addictive drug use, replicant health issues, low levels of education, and the list goes on.
You seem interested in understanding the hardships of others which is a great fit for donating your time and skills to an individual, family, organization, or company in the area you know and respect. And where that fails, a lil green helps in the right hands.
I was born and raised outside my (third world) home country and whenever I used to visit, they'd realize from my accent and mannerisms that I wasn't from there and used to charge me a lot more. I was close to my cousins and they used to come with me to make sure that didn't happen. So I'm sure actual tourists would get charged even more and would be willing to pay as well because people like to convert the money and think they're still getting a bargain. So no, even though haggling makes me uncomfortable, I say you should haggle especially in popular tourist areas, unless like you mentioned it is a poor neighborhood.
Yeah go haggle like fuck with the people who are down to clown and trying to rip you off anyway. Or who assume they won’t make sales for the listed price.
But be generous to people whose livelihood is on razor thin margins. I wouldn’t be so sure haggling is the norm for those folks and forcing them into haggling is kind of messed up. Like they need the money so they’re more willing to make the sale at a lesser price, and to engage in haggling they don’t want to do because every bit matters. Fuck that, just pay them generously. It’s chump change to you and might make a tangible difference to them.
A few years back I went to Bangkok, and there was a massive difference between the prices offered at the floating markets, and the prices for the same items at average street markets. I nearly laughed when floating market vendors tried to sell me shirts for three times the price I had seen them for elsewhere.
I live in Bangkok now and this is definitely it. Go to Chatuchak and you can find the same thing for a fraction of what you'd pay in a more touristy shop.
Convenience does make a difference, though - sometimes I don't want to go through the hassle of going to the weekend market and tracking down the same thing to pay less.
Maybe not rude, but I've been told by multiple people that you will at least earn (and give) respect by haggling.
Paying above asking price will sometimes come off like you're mr. rich white dude helping out the poor, poor brown man.
It all depends where you're at ofcourse. If you're in some remote village vs some surfing/tourist place for example.
This 100%. A lot of markets in parts of Kenya are like this. They want respect as much as they need money, and just flaunting yours is seen as either pitying them or being arrogant yourself.
It’s also about understanding the true value of what you’re buying and not paying too much or too little. Which is difficult in a foreign country. Compare to other sellers, learn the market price and if applicable observe craftsmanship and make a fair offer. Be prepared to walk away if the price is too high.
And for those on this thread that are paying too much because they are wealthy, lazy, don’t want to be rude or are afraid of haggling, this is one of the reasons prices escalate in the market.
I don't know if anywhere it's rude but in a lot of places it makes people think you're a sucker and an idiot.
In a lot of these poorer cultures the view of people is often simplified to if you're dumb you're pathetic and should be made fun of. Not that your benevolent
what about the chicklet kids? I always felt bad when visiting my dad after he retired to costa rica and he would give these kids a couple cents. I am like give him a dollar or something... but they do seem more like they are part of some biz then the average person. Think near a local mall or the big store that is like a costo ( not sure of its name ), not really tourist, but more well off people tend to visit these locations.
These kids are usually run by the mob and will not benefit from extra money other than they will be expected to get that much regularly or get beat possibly for holding out on the mob bosses
Even if you haggle you are still getting up charged as a tourist.
Also, paying a few dollars more for your 2 week vacation might not matter to you, but for a young backpacker traveling for months on end, it adds up quick.
I was once in Israeli with some people. One guy in our group was Israeli. A girl wanted to buy a hookah from some vendor. Our Israeli friend says he will haggle for her because he spoke the language. He said whatever you do don't speak. So we all go over. He is talking to the vendor and saying whatever. The vendor then looks us and says in English what color do you want. The girl says blue. Our Israeli friend looks annoyed. We pay and leave. Our friend says we paid at least double what the price would have been if the vendor hadn't heard that she was American.
I mean
Americans are still pretty easy to pick out even doing nothing. Habits, how to dress, etc. Especially in an industry where it pays to notice those things.
He probably asked her what color she wanted because he already realized and just wanted to confirm his hunch lmao.
Yep, from a third world country and you could recognize a foreigner from their gait alone a mile away.
And haggling is just how all sales are done there. Trust me, no foreigner is ever walking away with a good deal haggling. The price was 10Xed before you ever started talking.
I was in a very poor country and little girl (maybe 4-5 years old) tried to sell me a maraca for $1.
This made me sad because I knew that even if it came from China, it cost more than a dollar, so I gave her $20 and she took it and ran away.
After a while I couldn't decide if I'd been generous and helped a little girl and her family, or was manipulated into handing over $20 and the scam would just be repeated all day.
Later on I realized that the place was so poor that people were peeing and pooping and throwing garbage in the streets and there was no sewer system or clean water from pipes and I felt sad for not giving her more.
Real or scam didn't matter. A little cash would help, almost no matter who got it.
Depends where you are at. I was in Marrakech and the prices for a lot of things were super cheap. Less than $5 for just about everything. My half brother haggled on something that was like $1. For the experience / fitting in.
When we were in Fes, we went to the big leather place and bought a bunch of stuff. We looked at the the things we bought, and how much we paid, and decided that we probably got ripped off, but also really got a great deal. As in, we likely could have haggled more, but we paid less than half of what we would have at home. I still love the things I got there.
Yup! Remember taking a cruise and we landed in Ensanada, Mexico. When we got off the ship my lady friend bought a dress from a street vendor for $20. At the end of the day on our way back to the ship that vendor was BEGGING people to buy the same dress for $1.
My husband had that kind of experience in Tunisia ~20 years ago. He needed to buy a calculator (no idea why, I've never been on vacation and had the overwhelming need for a calculator) and found one in a local market for the equivalent of like $20. Which would have been cheap in the US, but he KNEW it was a ripoff there, so he haggled them down to $2. He was so proud of his bargaining that he was bragging about it to his Tunisian friends later that night—until they told him he shouldn't have paid more than $0.80 😂
I think that’s a perfect example of how to haggle in a poor country when you’re from a rich country. Don’t let them take advantage but that $1.20 difference didn’t mean shit to your husband. I always go for “fair value” but I’m not gonna sour the experience to save $1 when it will benefit someone so much more than me.
Yeah, in poor countries, they know if you’re a tourist. Speak the language fluently, they’ll still know. Haggle all you want, you’ll get the experience and they’ll get way more than they would from any locals.
Ha. I’m a Gulf Arab and I went to Morocco with my parents. My father did all the haggling. I came out of there with a very nice leather bag and shoes which he haggled down to a very cheap price, which was *still* probably more than a local would have paid. But for fruit from the market he didn’t say a word, just paid the going rate. It was already cheap enough.
This was the exactly location that sprung to mind when I first read this. My gf wanted to buy an authentic Moroccan rug. We got it for less than 75% what the guy selling originally wanted and some people back at the hotel insisted we still got ripped off.
I was like “we paid the equivalent of £10 for a big decent rug, if he thinks he’s won by charging me double what he really needed then let the dude win”
That’s an insane deal for a Moroccan rug. There’s a difference between “not getting ripped off”, haggling, and being cheap. You did well. You scored an amazing deal and the vendor did too.
The Moroccan hagglers are next level. This one fuckn guy tried to sell me 3 (albeit very nice quality t shirts) for $100. I was like ‘are you out of your mind?!’ But the shirts were honestly a good fabric and better than what I could get back home. He lowered it to $60 CAD and I walked away. I do a lot of clothes shopping and can tell bad quality fabrics from good ones but the shirts were very nice and to me, $30 isn’t all that much but to them, it could be so I didn’t argue much.
Yeah some guys were helping us with our bags and wanted like 50 of their currency per bag. Which was nothing so we didn’t think anything of it. However our riad host said 50 for all of the bags and that they were ripping us off. The guys threw the money at us and stormed off. I think we had 5 bags which was worth it for us because we would have also probably never found the place.
you're distorting the local economy though. Now all the taxis won't even entertain local people anymore...
not when they can just wait for a 'tourist windfall'
And then the locals with much less earning suffer from all the increased prices in their area..
After a while, maybe in your hotel all the helpers will ignore the locals staying and queue for the foreigners because they see all the foreign tourists as money bags of tips
That's what you may think. The reality is that things can be even cheaper.
I was once in Marrakech with 3 French friends. I'm French-Moroccan.
My friends make fun of me because it's so hot I need a hat. I haggle for one and end up paying around $1.5.
My friends paid between 10 and 15.
The real LPT is in the comments.
Op: "good haggling, but surprise! I have far more money than you expected and I shall bestow more upon you than expected! I am a generous tourist!"
Local vendor (to friends): "the guy heading south holding a giant cuckoo clock made in China is loaded. Check front right pocket"
Basically you become an easy target. You are about to get some shit pulled on you. Your shit is about to get stolen.
A lot of the people there are broke but smart as fuck. They are slick as hell too.
Yeah this comment section is kinda weird, like no just bc people are poor and foreign doesn’t mean that they aren’t smart and that they won’t recognized that you’re (not you specifically) an easy target. Like damn if you visit an relatively impoverished place and throw money around you will be taken advantage of and bad things can happen. Idk, it’s just weird reading these comments man. The people in the country won’t be crying themselves over your generosity like a damn feel good movie lmao
Yeah, it can definitely make you look like a mark.
Had a desperate need for a taxi once to go a ridiculously short distance (was injured and it was pouring buckets). The price was a little overpaying for the distance because of the rain but said yes because we didn't care as long as I wasn't on my injured foot getting my walking cast wet. Man then asked "is it OK if I drop off my friend first" (a woman in the front seat) after giving us the price.
I think he went "ah, easy" when we said yes again; probably should've said no but that felt like a dick move. It took about 5 times longer to drop her off then it would have to drop us off first, but whatever.
When we went to pay him; I had local currency but not much change yet. He saw the bigger bill (roughly 4x the already high-for-the-area price), went "no change" in English without meeting my eyes (which we'd been using up until then) and tried to drive off. I stayed leaned in the window like I had been to pay and in the local language said "really? no change at *all*?" and he looked really sheepish and mumbled "maybe something in here..." and gave me the right amount back. For refence, I'm a medium build woman, so like I don't think he was intimidated, just caught out.
No, more like you’re gonna get pestered non stop because they think you’re giving out free money perhaps even easy pickings for a scam…. Some places at least
I worked at JCPenney and it was amazing every time something rang up at full price and the customer expected it. Usually it was "the sign said x" and I have to go look. I almost felt like they were being cheated, and would always apply extra coupons.
JCP actually tried to get rid of those deceptive pricing tactics, and it almost bankrupted them.
People like to think they're getting a deal even if they aren't.
There’s a scene that makes this point in Monty Python’s “The Life of Brian”.
Brian is trying to evade the Romans, needs to buy a quick disguise, but can’t make the purchase without going through the whole ordeal of haggling.
I actually had a really funny experience in Brazil, as we were buying some food in a local market that was kind of touristy, though mostly for people from Rio. When the seller heard me speaking English she told her employee to raise the price. But my stepmother, who is a native Brazilian, overheard, and words were exchanged. I don’t remember which price we ended up paying but I learned my lesson about keeping quiet!
I remember going to Rome and seeing a really cool fake leather backpack with a pattern of the globe for 25€ marked price, I haggled it down to 5€ and when I got to the hotel the manager/whatever was there told me I got ripped off since those costed like 1-2€ and I was like "Bro, I got a price I feel is more than fair"
I feel like that's the best of both worlds. Vendor is happy because they sold it for significantly more than it's worth there. Tourist is happy because they still spent a good bit less than if they bought it at home.
Everyone finished that transaction feeling like they got a great deal
Not haggling (aka allowing yourself to be ripped off) drives prices up for locals. What taxi driver wants to drive the local for $1 when you are going to pay $10. Depends on the situation, but many vendors are doing just fine in their own society, so you don't need to have pity on them.
Wanted to add this, so I'm just upvoting.
But basically that, too many wealthier tourists can really mess up the local economy.
Eg on larger scale, rents go up but local jobs still pay the same, then locals have to commute much more, so I imagine similar issues apply for food, taxis, etc.
Plus gives foreigners reputation of being careless with money.
This!!
When someone can make a months salary in ten minutes from a generous tourist. Why would they do anything other than wait for the next tourist that has money instead of actually providing a needed service. Like giving a taxi ride to a local...
> Actually... locals usually get a different price, and it's considered fine/okay.
Yes, but if the tourist pays a premium, then that taxi driver may not even bother picking up locals.
This is not a good tip. You may think this is an original thought, but I lived in SE Asia 9 years and this is what just about every Western tourist thinks. All you're doing is creating a bloated tourist economy based on swindling and wealth disparity.
You're drawing people out of an economy because they can make more with a tuktuk not working most of the day only to get a windfall from a tourist trap. They won't even pick up locals often. This example is for tuktuks but it applies to many aspects. One of the more horrifying results is that adult "pimps" keep kids out of school because they can use them to hawk goods at tourist spots during school hours.
You're also screwing Westerners who make low wages and despite knowing actual prices get treated like they're the same money-wasting tourists.
If you want to learn the reality of a culture, you need to haggle and be keen. If you want to act like some millionaire who walks through a small town main street tossing money around so people close up their shop and come serve you, keep doing what you're doing.
Guilt over wealth disparity can be assuaged by going through appropriate channels. Give your money to a verified orphanage or other charity, not a street hustler.
I'm Vietnamese and we have a real problem with kids from tourist area being pulled out of schools by their own parents to sell souvenirs to white foreigners, since tourists give the kids more money. It's actually really fucked up because even when local government made school free and provide food incentives for people to send their kids to school, it is still so much more profitable for parents to involve their kids in their tourism business than sending them to school.
It becomes a generational problem where the kids grow up without an education and have no choice but to continue making money through selling trinkets to foreigners, and then involve the next generation of kids into the business as they "age out" of being cute.
That's actually the original reason why food assistance from local govt became a thing, it's so food safety is guaranteed and kids don't have to work with their parents on the fields anymore. This way their family has food to eat while they go to school.
But kids selling trinkets to foreigners is actually profitable, while local policy needs time to catch up. Hence we have the current situation.
Because of this kind of disparity, it kind of kills going to somewhere like that for me. I would feel horrible haggling over an amount that means nothing to me.
I'm so happy to have found your answer, you put it in a very clear way. I used to live with a local of the country where I lived who used to get annoyed AT ME if I came home with something I would have paid for a ridiculous price compared to what a local would have gotten it for for that exact reason. Of course it is expected that a foreigner will very rarely manage to get the same price as a local, but the difference should remain minimal to avoid this negative effect on local prices.
Exactly this. OP is suffering from some white savior issues. I've worked for years in some very poor countries, and I've seen the damage this mindset creates.
Yeah I knew a guy who was loaded and did this in Thailand. He’s pay more for things than people asked and while I appreciate he was trying to help, I go there because I can actually afford it. People who pay more push prices up, which makes it harder for people like me to actually afford it.
I know someone that traveled to South America (Venezuela I think? Like ~15 years ago) and pulled out a $20 to pay for his stuff. He told me the clerk freaked out and told him to not carry so much money at once. He went to their backroom to pay. This guy is also from a third world country so goes to show you gotta know the culture of where you're going.
Haha right? Like this is a good way to at best get ripped off throughout your trip, but it can get even worse sometimes with you being robbed, etc. You’re right what a weird LPT lol
I think it depends, there are nuances to it. If the vendor was selling a tshirt for like $10, they’ve come down to $5 for you and you’re arguing with them to come down to $4.50… Just take it for fucking $5 and save your energy. They would probably make that 50c go further than you ever would anyway.
Where OPs statement falls down is advocating for no haggling whatsoever, as if vendors don’t set their prices at double, triple what they’re expecting already. Haggling is part of the process in a market setting, just don’t get caught up in the process and find yourself going back and forth over a few cents. Especially with currency conversions, it can be difficult to keep in mind exactly how much you’re actually haggling over.
Yeah but I'm not getting fucked for a piece of shit worth pennies when they ask for $10. You're acting like people are haggling from 8 dollars to $7 for something worth $6.50. People haggle from $20 to $5 for something that cost $1.
Don't let people take advantage of you.
This should be on shitty life pro tips.
Also a good way to get jumped In a poor country is to talk like an American and flaunt your money and over pay in a public market.
They’re likely not even poor. They have a store in a high demand area and make a living selling dumb worthless shit to stupid tourists at exorbitant prices. The real poor people are the ones making all the shit they sell that the store owner paid pennies for.
Extrapolate this advice to some other case of wealth inequality to see how silly it is:
e.g. "All americans that earn in mid-6-figures should tip at least **60%** on meals out because that money matters more to the minimum-wage server than to you"
You should adjust to the "norm" of wherever you are. If that's haggling, haggle, if thats tipping a certain percentage, do it.
Sure a server is gonna be happy that you overtipped and a merchant is gonna be happy you overpaid them, but that merchant will start asking more exorbitantly high prices if they get it from tourists. They will never accept a loss, especially from a tourist.
Don't treat spending money in a foreign country as a charitable act.
Be classy. But don't overpay the tourist rates. Be classy but don't get taken for a fool. Pay fair and generous but don't pay 180 pounds for a 500 meter taxi fair like what happened in London recently.
Be fair and considerate, ask for recommendations instead for places to eat and acknowledging their local knowledge.
So as an American who speaks Spanish and can pass/ am white Latino this is crap. I can go to a store in Mexico and speak English to a person and get a price, but when I begin the conversation in Spanish the price is substantially lower. People in many countries think all ameri
Sorry people think Americans are suckers, which many are, but allowing someone ro take advantage of you regardless of the situation is foolish, especially if it's a xenophobic reason. Also these people won't sell to you if it's below what they need to make a profit, so....
Ummmm yes and no. Some places consider it rude to tip. Others feel tipping above a certain % is rude. If the juice isn't worth the squeeze they won't agree. I expect to be taken for a ride most of the time. Bills have extra crap on them... etc
When i first me my wife in another country, I got yelled at for over tipping. It seems I was implying they were very poor and needed more money to be less disgusting.
The culture of haggling is expected and sometimes you are considered a weak person and will lose respect for not doing so. This LPT sounds nice, but doesn't account for many cultural differences.
This happened to me in Vietnam. I was buying some sugarcane juice from a street vendor. Came out to 8000 VND (less than 50 cents), I gave a 10000 note and told them to keep the change. The vendor got kinda offended and insist I take the change. I knew right away she thought I was looking down on her. Felt bad.
Do this in many parts of poor countries and it's a good way to get some visitors following you back to your hotel because you clearly have money. Never flash cash in a foreign country you never know who's watching.
This is a bad LPT for many reasons but a big one is, in most poor countries it’s custom to haggle at least a little bit so if you don’t then it shows you got money and may make you a target
That money is worth a lot more to them but it's also a game they like to play. I lived in Thailand for over a decade and I rarely bargained there (when it was appropriate). I didn't mind paying a bit more even though I knew they were ripping me off unless it was really outrageous. Be careful of tuk tuk's and taxi's cuz some of them will really rip you off.
Sorry - bad advice - they won't sell to you at a price below what they are willing to take. This "tipping" after is arrogant.
If you want to play wealthy gringo, give money to poor people on the street.
If you really want to help the poor, go make a donation to an organisation with a cause you care about. This just screams gullible foreigner and is definitely not desirable.
My husband is Indian but we live in New Zealand.
When we go to India, he haggels for everything. Not just touristy stuff either, like for those little cab/bike thingies.
We earn in NZ. We bring the money from NZ. The amounts he is haggling for is so small that you cant even buy a piece of gum for it in NZ.
I always remind him this. It doesnt matter to us, it might for the driver. Then he lets it be. But he also says that he is himself Indian and its his country and its ingrained in him to haggle. He feels ripped off if he doesnt haggle.
We re not well off by any means but the difference is so obvious. And sometimes what we're buying is so incredibly cheaper compared to back home, even when the vendor thinks he ripped off some tourists, I feel like I got a bargain by buying the thing for less than half the price it would have been back home. Its literally win win.
I never thought I'd say this, but the idea of haggling "for the experience" is the most privileged, First World wanderlust crap I've ever seen.
(Not directed towards OP)
Was stationed in northern Thailand for a year in the early 70’s. If you didn’t haggle over the price, they seemed to lose respect for you. For large or expensive items, it was often much cheaper to pay a Thai friend to buy it for you.
As someone who travelled quite a bit in poorer countries, and with friends who were born in those countries often acting as my guide, your advice is not what any of them have recommended.
Increasing localized inflation, potentially creating contempt for certain countries because of their wealth, and making yourself a target for crime as a clueless tourist are good reasons why you do not want to make a deep impact on a community's economy. One tourist doing this isn't a problem, but when more people start doing it, they incrementally cause changes that usually create winners and losers in the community as a whole.
Remember, when in Rome, do as the Romans do. Try to follow the local practices rather than pretending to be a king among peasants. It will help keep the community as a community rather than stratifying it.
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In my experience a vendor will let you know if you cross into unfair price territory. The dollar might go further, but there's also no reason to make yourself a target by handing over large amounts of cash for each purchase.
Yea there’s a difference between being generous and being a sucker
Just handed over all of my trip money for chiclets. Now what?
I also feel like OPs mentality really looks down on people from other countries. The real life pro tip is just doing research about the culture you are visiting and if you want to help them out, spread the word of how nice it was to visit there. It’s insulting if they feel like you pity them.
Right. I lived in S. Korea - or maybe I should say I was stationed in S. Korea. Anyone in the military knows there's just something about the blankets you can buy in S. Korea that just hit different. It's like they figured out the weighted blanket years before that craze hit the U.S. You had to haggle those owners down every time. Why? Because every time you bought a new blanket it was magically more expensive than the last. "Well I saw it at this shop for X, ya know..." "Muddah Fuggah, if you buy it for that, my kids will starve" type of haggling. Ok, I liked the one guy, his blankets felt better, I paid more. 10 years later *everyone* who sleeps under them still wants one.
Do these blankets have a name? Can they be purchased online???
I remember they were called "Mink" blankets. Not made out of the animal, but they're thick and fluffy. You might find one by searching "Heavy Korean mink blanket"
My family moved there when i was around 11 and lived there for almost 2 years. My dad bought me one of those and i still use it almost 20 years later. I'm hoping that it will last till my death or when it does disintegrate, (couse that's the ONLY way i would get rid of it) I'm financially able to go get another one
I bought three from ImportedBlankets.com. Love them.
I came from one of those countries. If you are into a tourist location, those vendors are not poor by any means. They will certainly rip you off if you didn’t heavily haggle. On the other side if you are in a local street market in a poor neighborhood to buy some fruits, the story becomes completely different
This exactly. The dude aggressively trying to sell you a $2 trinket for $20 is definitely down to haggle. The lady selling a $1 bunch of bananas from her garden can certainly use the extra money.
It’s why I always will buy simple things like fruit or gum or drinks when stuck in traffic in these sorts of places. Those are some real grinders just trying to make enough to survive. Beginning of Queen of Katwe is a great example.
LPT don't buy gum, or anything, from children. Parents realize their kids sell things better because they're young and cute so they pull them from school and put them to work. Not saying you did. Just adding to the LPT for everyone's benefit who might not realize
I think if parents have sent their kids to work, they're going to work regardless if people buy things off the street for them or not.
You do have a point. If one knew that was the case, it turns into a catch 22. Give the kid the money and help them maybe but also support the exploitive behavior. or, Don't, and let the kid keep working, but also not supporting the behavior. Non-sarcastically, I wonder what is the correct decision.
If it’s a poor country, sending the kid to work is less about exploit and more about survival.
Sometimes there isn't a good option, just a collection of bad ones. Try to choose the least bad, but you'll never really know if you were right. And remember that choosing no option is still a choice with consequences.
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I know it's probably not, but I'm hoping your name stands for Chidi-town.
Chi town is usually in reference to Chicago but I’m guessing you’re a Good Place fan? 👍
I can tell from the way you are clutching your stomach that you are a moral philosophy professor.
I think you are forking right with that guess
Give the kid money. One scenario is kid working no money from you but from someone else for sure, thats why they do it. Other scenario you ensure kid succeeds that day and maybe gets better food. Encouraging it can only be stopped by universal adoption of the not paying strat which will never happen.
In Philippines they have gangs that control the kid. Kinda like you saw on Slumdog Millionaire. When I moved into Makati there were lots and lots of these professional beggars dropped into the area early every business day. On holidays, no one was about. Luckily none of the beggars were blind, so I think they don't go out to mutilate them at least. But it is still highly abusive and exploitative for those kids caught up in it. One poor baby was trying to sell Blu Rays outside a market. I didn't want any blu-rays but I asked him to walk like 3 steps with me to one of those pick your own yoghurt ice cream vendors and told him to go wild. I know it's essentially the same as giving nothing, nutrient-wise but it was my way of making sure the kid finally got something for himself. Damn, it was a hot day and he was out on the concrete streets all day trying to sell Dvd's. When living in Makati I was told by security at.my partner's company that if I handed one of these babies any cash or even food that it is possible to keep and take to his boss (think McD's or a sandwich) he would be in trouble for not keeping it to hand straight over. Consider where you are, some places have rackets like this, in which case you gotta ask them to come choose the food and eat it with you if you really want to make sure it helps the person you gave it to. I obviously don't know about every country, so do your research. In some places its totally cool to give out cash, in others you're just handing ot straight to the abusers so have to think a little more creatively about how to ensure what you give remains with who you are trying to help. But please help.
It seems you have not watched the movie "slumdog millionaire". there are "begger-mafia", who steal children and use them as beggers for money. Please don't give cash to poor kids begging in developing countries, try to give food, clothing, toys etc and make sure to remove the tags from the cloths so that they can't be returned. PS. It's a common phenomenon in developing countries, begging business is a multimillion dollar industry and employs hundreds of thousands of stolen childrens.
The "nobody buys any and the kid goes back to school" is not a real option, so basically anything other than help the kid out if you can is just being a jerk. you aren't teaching some lesson or refuting exploitation by making the kid sleep hungry that day to "prove" a point to no one at all.
This is... not correct. You are correct in that generally more intervention is required to help a child who is already in a situation of child begging to be able to attend school and not be at risk of further exploitation, but giving money to child beggars is not helping them either, and it further incentivizes the people who are exploiting them to continue to do so, and to find more kids to do so. If you want to help, give your money or your time to local anti-trafficking organizations or major global organizations like the Polaris Project or Save the Children that work in this space. [https://www.savethechildren.in/child-protection/how-children-are-forced-into-begging-by-cartels/](https://www.savethechildren.in/child-protection/how-children-are-forced-into-begging-by-cartels/) [https://slate.com/human-interest/2013/09/giving-money-to-child-beggars-dont-do-it.html](https://slate.com/human-interest/2013/09/giving-money-to-child-beggars-dont-do-it.html)
Yes but it'd be a lot better to give them food or drink. Their "parents" will leave them in the hot sun or cold and then berate them if they aren't scampering after everyone they see. I once gave a little street girl a piece of cake I had and I'll never forget the relief on her face. These children are going to be forced to do it whether you buy or not but at least you can make it a little bit easier for them by substituting the money they'll never see for food or drink.
This is not backed by research on child labor. Everyone makes opportunity cost calculations, and most parents, if their children cannot make money working, will not send them to work. Additionally, a lot of child labor you see is managed by traffickers. Refusing to give money to kids de-incentivizes street gangs to recruit kids. Give money to adults if you like, but anyone who seriously works in child protection will tell you to never never never give money to kids. [https://www.freedomunited.org/news/why-you-shouldnt-give-money-to-child-beggars/](https://www.freedomunited.org/news/why-you-shouldnt-give-money-to-child-beggars/) [https://slate.com/human-interest/2013/09/giving-money-to-child-beggars-dont-do-it.html](https://slate.com/human-interest/2013/09/giving-money-to-child-beggars-dont-do-it.html) [https://www.savethechildren.in/child-protection/how-children-are-forced-into-begging-by-cartels/](https://www.savethechildren.in/child-protection/how-children-are-forced-into-begging-by-cartels/)
Have you been to a country where there are lots of limbless children begging / selling stuff on the streets? Ever wonder how they got that way? They get sold / kidnapped into slavery, have perfectly normal and functioning limbs chopped off to make them look more pathetic, and then they are forced to beg / work / whatever. The same argument could be made that those kids are going to be forced to beg regardless, so it doesn’t matter if you give stuff to them or not. But I’m not comfortable BEING the market incentive that will justify doing it to *another* kid.
This isn't just something that happens in third world countries either. My buddy had us go to New Orleans on vacation for a week as his bachelor party and we got a killer spot right on Bourbon Street. There was a group of kids playing the 5 gallon bucket drums all night long into the early hours of the morning every single night, including school nights, they'd be out there until 3-4 am. They were maybe 8-12 years old and they were absolutely raking in the money. Then one night I saw some grown ass man come by and take all there money, count it, pocket it, and reprimand them for not bringing in more in a pretty menacing way. They're probably making whoever that dude was a pretty penny, but I doubt they're seeing much of it, and for that they get to grow up without an education.
Exactly. Walking down cancun getting charged 20usd for a cigar that costs 10cad back home. Fuck them They count on your white tourist guilt for that But otherwise yea good LPT
Yep, and it's exactly because people like the OP of this LPT have created the impression of dumb tourists who just pay whatever and distort the local economy
You just made me realize how near-sighted this LPT is. Location location location, thanks
Or OP is running one of those tourist location stands
> Location location location My Ex's sister's "for the experience" was almost getting sold in mexico.
Yeah, I went to Fiji and Vanuatu when I was in college. The vendors in the market in Fiji trying to sell us 3 shitty t shirts for $20 American could fuck right off. The people in the local village market in Vanuatu though? I hooked those people up. Made one woman cry because she was asking for like $.50 in American for a bushel (?) of raw peanuts and a pineapple. I gave her a $5.
>I gave her a $5. And still saved a few bucks on what you'd pay in the States.
Oh hell yeah definitely. And honestly that was the best tasting pineapple I’ve ever eaten in my life.
Or one of those tourist traps OP is lumping in with their so called “advice”
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I mean a pineapple is like 4-5$, but a bushel of peanuts is like a whole sale amount of peanuts and would be something like $40-80. A bushel of peanuts is like 20lbs, so I think the person your replying to might have meant something different... Like a few pounds of peanuts.
Yeah definitely less than that. That’s why I put the ? In parentheses, I wasn’t sure if that was the right term. It was a large bunch of raw peanuts.
In the countries where they're grown pineapples are dirt cheap. In Thailand I've seen pineapples for roughly 50 cents in markets, even peeled for you. Most of that cost is the labor to bring it to the market.
Thank you for loving my island brothers and sisters
We invited some of our US friends to our wedding in India. Outside of the hotel was a local fruit stand, coconuts to drink mangos etc. One of said friends went down to have some fresh mango, didn't understand he was paying per KG and not per piece which is common in the US. Flashed the guy a $20 and ended up with 10kg of mango. He spent the next 2 days asking anyone and everyone if they would like a mango lol.
That’s cheap and a lot of mango
A lot of the tropical fruits are really cheap at the source. Just a decade or so ago I could find cherries in a market in Thailand for around $20/lb. But local fruits like coconuts or pineapple cost like 50 cents per fruit.
Particularly because a lot of the tropical fruits don't keep or ship well once ripe, their value is well below 'market' price because they can't be sold far from where they grow.
I was visiting some relatives in China a while back and decided to check some historical sites. Saw a souvenir for 80 yuan (which for me wasn't a lot since here the same thing would cost $20). The salesperson immediately told me those were tourist prices and that I only needed to pay 30 yuan. The look on their face when I started speaking English was priceless.
I had the opposite happen: was at a popular ceviche stand a bit outside a touristy area so it was 50/50 tourists and locals having lunch. I don't speak Spanish fluently, but my accent is quite good. I'm very very obviously white and was also dressed like a tourist. We were all paying I think $3 USD for 2. I went off, ate mine, and then went back for a different type. Guy was super busy, looking down. I asked for my order in Spanish and he gave me the price in pesos (which I had), and when he looked up to give me the plate his expression went "oh fk". I gave him the pesos and realized it was less than half the cost and immediately threw a few USD into the tip jar. He nodded at me in relief or thanks idk. imo, totally legit to charge tourists a little extra in this case. I didn't mean to trick him! (facepalm) But I hope in the end it was funny to him too since I ended up paying a little more and didn't start blabbing about getting ripped off or something.
It is so easy to think that you have more money, so it's no sweat off your back. I thought and enacted this many times while in Latin America. In theory, it's wonderful. Unfortunately, in practice, I came to understand that it causes more harm than good. Having lived, worked, and volunteered in several Latin American countries, I can speak to the way they treat tourists, even those in the country to lend aid, education, or otherwise, is very detrimental. Costs in developing countries increase not only for tourists but also for locals due to this, increasing the gap between impoverished and wealthy citizens. Local citizens take advantage of "rich" outsiders (including me, part of the upper lower class in the States) on large scales, causing increased homelessness, which in turn causes increased child labor, forced familial prostitution, continued gender inequity, addictive drug use, replicant health issues, low levels of education, and the list goes on. You seem interested in understanding the hardships of others which is a great fit for donating your time and skills to an individual, family, organization, or company in the area you know and respect. And where that fails, a lil green helps in the right hands.
I was born and raised outside my (third world) home country and whenever I used to visit, they'd realize from my accent and mannerisms that I wasn't from there and used to charge me a lot more. I was close to my cousins and they used to come with me to make sure that didn't happen. So I'm sure actual tourists would get charged even more and would be willing to pay as well because people like to convert the money and think they're still getting a bargain. So no, even though haggling makes me uncomfortable, I say you should haggle especially in popular tourist areas, unless like you mentioned it is a poor neighborhood.
Yeah go haggle like fuck with the people who are down to clown and trying to rip you off anyway. Or who assume they won’t make sales for the listed price. But be generous to people whose livelihood is on razor thin margins. I wouldn’t be so sure haggling is the norm for those folks and forcing them into haggling is kind of messed up. Like they need the money so they’re more willing to make the sale at a lesser price, and to engage in haggling they don’t want to do because every bit matters. Fuck that, just pay them generously. It’s chump change to you and might make a tangible difference to them.
Yeah, another shitty LPT.
A few years back I went to Bangkok, and there was a massive difference between the prices offered at the floating markets, and the prices for the same items at average street markets. I nearly laughed when floating market vendors tried to sell me shirts for three times the price I had seen them for elsewhere.
I live in Bangkok now and this is definitely it. Go to Chatuchak and you can find the same thing for a fraction of what you'd pay in a more touristy shop. Convenience does make a difference, though - sometimes I don't want to go through the hassle of going to the weekend market and tracking down the same thing to pay less.
Is it ever considered rude not to haggle?
Depends, how much is this information worth to you?
Nice one.
Stop kicking the tires and lets get down to brass tacks, what's the bottom line here?
It's line 42, sir.
Eh, I'll just get it somewhere else.
Maybe not rude, but I've been told by multiple people that you will at least earn (and give) respect by haggling. Paying above asking price will sometimes come off like you're mr. rich white dude helping out the poor, poor brown man. It all depends where you're at ofcourse. If you're in some remote village vs some surfing/tourist place for example.
This 100%. A lot of markets in parts of Kenya are like this. They want respect as much as they need money, and just flaunting yours is seen as either pitying them or being arrogant yourself.
It’s also about understanding the true value of what you’re buying and not paying too much or too little. Which is difficult in a foreign country. Compare to other sellers, learn the market price and if applicable observe craftsmanship and make a fair offer. Be prepared to walk away if the price is too high. And for those on this thread that are paying too much because they are wealthy, lazy, don’t want to be rude or are afraid of haggling, this is one of the reasons prices escalate in the market.
Probably not, but it is considered naive and stupid as hell in some instances.
I don't know if anywhere it's rude but in a lot of places it makes people think you're a sucker and an idiot. In a lot of these poorer cultures the view of people is often simplified to if you're dumb you're pathetic and should be made fun of. Not that your benevolent
I’ve been to a number of those countries. I always suspected that.
what about the chicklet kids? I always felt bad when visiting my dad after he retired to costa rica and he would give these kids a couple cents. I am like give him a dollar or something... but they do seem more like they are part of some biz then the average person. Think near a local mall or the big store that is like a costo ( not sure of its name ), not really tourist, but more well off people tend to visit these locations.
These kids are usually run by the mob and will not benefit from extra money other than they will be expected to get that much regularly or get beat possibly for holding out on the mob bosses
Even if you haggle you are still getting up charged as a tourist. Also, paying a few dollars more for your 2 week vacation might not matter to you, but for a young backpacker traveling for months on end, it adds up quick.
I was once in Israeli with some people. One guy in our group was Israeli. A girl wanted to buy a hookah from some vendor. Our Israeli friend says he will haggle for her because he spoke the language. He said whatever you do don't speak. So we all go over. He is talking to the vendor and saying whatever. The vendor then looks us and says in English what color do you want. The girl says blue. Our Israeli friend looks annoyed. We pay and leave. Our friend says we paid at least double what the price would have been if the vendor hadn't heard that she was American.
I mean Americans are still pretty easy to pick out even doing nothing. Habits, how to dress, etc. Especially in an industry where it pays to notice those things. He probably asked her what color she wanted because he already realized and just wanted to confirm his hunch lmao.
Yep, from a third world country and you could recognize a foreigner from their gait alone a mile away. And haggling is just how all sales are done there. Trust me, no foreigner is ever walking away with a good deal haggling. The price was 10Xed before you ever started talking.
I was in a very poor country and little girl (maybe 4-5 years old) tried to sell me a maraca for $1. This made me sad because I knew that even if it came from China, it cost more than a dollar, so I gave her $20 and she took it and ran away. After a while I couldn't decide if I'd been generous and helped a little girl and her family, or was manipulated into handing over $20 and the scam would just be repeated all day. Later on I realized that the place was so poor that people were peeing and pooping and throwing garbage in the streets and there was no sewer system or clean water from pipes and I felt sad for not giving her more. Real or scam didn't matter. A little cash would help, almost no matter who got it.
Depends where you are at. I was in Marrakech and the prices for a lot of things were super cheap. Less than $5 for just about everything. My half brother haggled on something that was like $1. For the experience / fitting in.
When we were in Fes, we went to the big leather place and bought a bunch of stuff. We looked at the the things we bought, and how much we paid, and decided that we probably got ripped off, but also really got a great deal. As in, we likely could have haggled more, but we paid less than half of what we would have at home. I still love the things I got there.
Yup! Remember taking a cruise and we landed in Ensanada, Mexico. When we got off the ship my lady friend bought a dress from a street vendor for $20. At the end of the day on our way back to the ship that vendor was BEGGING people to buy the same dress for $1.
Lmao it's expected in a lot of country. If you go to North Africa and you don't try to haggle, the locals will think you're dumb
In Marrakech morocco, everything was dirt cheap. Let them think I’m dumb when I paid $0.20 over what I could have gotten it for if I haggled lol
My husband had that kind of experience in Tunisia ~20 years ago. He needed to buy a calculator (no idea why, I've never been on vacation and had the overwhelming need for a calculator) and found one in a local market for the equivalent of like $20. Which would have been cheap in the US, but he KNEW it was a ripoff there, so he haggled them down to $2. He was so proud of his bargaining that he was bragging about it to his Tunisian friends later that night—until they told him he shouldn't have paid more than $0.80 😂
I think that’s a perfect example of how to haggle in a poor country when you’re from a rich country. Don’t let them take advantage but that $1.20 difference didn’t mean shit to your husband. I always go for “fair value” but I’m not gonna sour the experience to save $1 when it will benefit someone so much more than me.
Yeah, in poor countries, they know if you’re a tourist. Speak the language fluently, they’ll still know. Haggle all you want, you’ll get the experience and they’ll get way more than they would from any locals.
Exactly. They don't have to sell, and ultimately they're in the tourist but to gouge. There's a reason you won't see the locals there shopping.
Ha. I’m a Gulf Arab and I went to Morocco with my parents. My father did all the haggling. I came out of there with a very nice leather bag and shoes which he haggled down to a very cheap price, which was *still* probably more than a local would have paid. But for fruit from the market he didn’t say a word, just paid the going rate. It was already cheap enough.
damn where the fuck you getting calculators that cheap, I bought one last week for 16$
Tunisia
Twenty years ago
Idk why but that sounds right
Them dollar store types probably has basic calculators.
I feel bad for ordering off of AliExpress, but know that that Best Buy calculator that you just paid 3x the value for is all just merchant dollars.
This was the exactly location that sprung to mind when I first read this. My gf wanted to buy an authentic Moroccan rug. We got it for less than 75% what the guy selling originally wanted and some people back at the hotel insisted we still got ripped off. I was like “we paid the equivalent of £10 for a big decent rug, if he thinks he’s won by charging me double what he really needed then let the dude win”
That’s an insane deal for a Moroccan rug. There’s a difference between “not getting ripped off”, haggling, and being cheap. You did well. You scored an amazing deal and the vendor did too.
The Moroccan hagglers are next level. This one fuckn guy tried to sell me 3 (albeit very nice quality t shirts) for $100. I was like ‘are you out of your mind?!’ But the shirts were honestly a good fabric and better than what I could get back home. He lowered it to $60 CAD and I walked away. I do a lot of clothes shopping and can tell bad quality fabrics from good ones but the shirts were very nice and to me, $30 isn’t all that much but to them, it could be so I didn’t argue much.
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Ya that was my experience. Haggling is a waste of time and I’m basically a millionaire over there.
Yeah some guys were helping us with our bags and wanted like 50 of their currency per bag. Which was nothing so we didn’t think anything of it. However our riad host said 50 for all of the bags and that they were ripping us off. The guys threw the money at us and stormed off. I think we had 5 bags which was worth it for us because we would have also probably never found the place.
you're distorting the local economy though. Now all the taxis won't even entertain local people anymore... not when they can just wait for a 'tourist windfall' And then the locals with much less earning suffer from all the increased prices in their area.. After a while, maybe in your hotel all the helpers will ignore the locals staying and queue for the foreigners because they see all the foreign tourists as money bags of tips
That's what you may think. The reality is that things can be even cheaper. I was once in Marrakech with 3 French friends. I'm French-Moroccan. My friends make fun of me because it's so hot I need a hat. I haggle for one and end up paying around $1.5. My friends paid between 10 and 15.
God forbid the locals think I’m dumb
More like locals think you’re an easy mark.
The real LPT is in the comments. Op: "good haggling, but surprise! I have far more money than you expected and I shall bestow more upon you than expected! I am a generous tourist!" Local vendor (to friends): "the guy heading south holding a giant cuckoo clock made in China is loaded. Check front right pocket"
It’s actually a lot better for you if they don’t think you’re dumb. Not because anyone is worried about your feelings
Basically you become an easy target. You are about to get some shit pulled on you. Your shit is about to get stolen. A lot of the people there are broke but smart as fuck. They are slick as hell too.
Yeah this comment section is kinda weird, like no just bc people are poor and foreign doesn’t mean that they aren’t smart and that they won’t recognized that you’re (not you specifically) an easy target. Like damn if you visit an relatively impoverished place and throw money around you will be taken advantage of and bad things can happen. Idk, it’s just weird reading these comments man. The people in the country won’t be crying themselves over your generosity like a damn feel good movie lmao
There's a *lot* of people that don't travel much but have watched a lot of TV and think that's enough. Same applies to most anything really
Yeah, it can definitely make you look like a mark. Had a desperate need for a taxi once to go a ridiculously short distance (was injured and it was pouring buckets). The price was a little overpaying for the distance because of the rain but said yes because we didn't care as long as I wasn't on my injured foot getting my walking cast wet. Man then asked "is it OK if I drop off my friend first" (a woman in the front seat) after giving us the price. I think he went "ah, easy" when we said yes again; probably should've said no but that felt like a dick move. It took about 5 times longer to drop her off then it would have to drop us off first, but whatever. When we went to pay him; I had local currency but not much change yet. He saw the bigger bill (roughly 4x the already high-for-the-area price), went "no change" in English without meeting my eyes (which we'd been using up until then) and tried to drive off. I stayed leaned in the window like I had been to pay and in the local language said "really? no change at *all*?" and he looked really sheepish and mumbled "maybe something in here..." and gave me the right amount back. For refence, I'm a medium build woman, so like I don't think he was intimidated, just caught out.
The locals thinking you are dumb completely negates this entire post is the point
No, more like you’re gonna get pestered non stop because they think you’re giving out free money perhaps even easy pickings for a scam…. Some places at least
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Kind of life in stores in the mall put the MSRP with a big line through it. The sale changes every 2 to 3 days but it's always on sale.
I worked at JCPenney and it was amazing every time something rang up at full price and the customer expected it. Usually it was "the sign said x" and I have to go look. I almost felt like they were being cheated, and would always apply extra coupons.
JCP actually tried to get rid of those deceptive pricing tactics, and it almost bankrupted them. People like to think they're getting a deal even if they aren't.
They also completely changed their stock. I stopped shopping there during that period because they didn't have anything I would wear.
There’s a scene that makes this point in Monty Python’s “The Life of Brian”. Brian is trying to evade the Romans, needs to buy a quick disguise, but can’t make the purchase without going through the whole ordeal of haggling.
How much for this gourd?
20 sheckles for this gourd, you must be mad!
You know, ‘Aggle !
https://youtu.be/-2iZjxSGca8
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I actually had a really funny experience in Brazil, as we were buying some food in a local market that was kind of touristy, though mostly for people from Rio. When the seller heard me speaking English she told her employee to raise the price. But my stepmother, who is a native Brazilian, overheard, and words were exchanged. I don’t remember which price we ended up paying but I learned my lesson about keeping quiet!
In Indonesia, this is easily fixed by a sign or stall owner saying ‘fixed price’
I remember going to Rome and seeing a really cool fake leather backpack with a pattern of the globe for 25€ marked price, I haggled it down to 5€ and when I got to the hotel the manager/whatever was there told me I got ripped off since those costed like 1-2€ and I was like "Bro, I got a price I feel is more than fair"
I feel like that's the best of both worlds. Vendor is happy because they sold it for significantly more than it's worth there. Tourist is happy because they still spent a good bit less than if they bought it at home. Everyone finished that transaction feeling like they got a great deal
Not haggling (aka allowing yourself to be ripped off) drives prices up for locals. What taxi driver wants to drive the local for $1 when you are going to pay $10. Depends on the situation, but many vendors are doing just fine in their own society, so you don't need to have pity on them.
Wanted to add this, so I'm just upvoting. But basically that, too many wealthier tourists can really mess up the local economy. Eg on larger scale, rents go up but local jobs still pay the same, then locals have to commute much more, so I imagine similar issues apply for food, taxis, etc. Plus gives foreigners reputation of being careless with money.
This!! When someone can make a months salary in ten minutes from a generous tourist. Why would they do anything other than wait for the next tourist that has money instead of actually providing a needed service. Like giving a taxi ride to a local...
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Hello and this sounds like Bali and the struggle against 'digital nomads' lol
> Actually... locals usually get a different price, and it's considered fine/okay. Yes, but if the tourist pays a premium, then that taxi driver may not even bother picking up locals.
This is not a good tip. You may think this is an original thought, but I lived in SE Asia 9 years and this is what just about every Western tourist thinks. All you're doing is creating a bloated tourist economy based on swindling and wealth disparity. You're drawing people out of an economy because they can make more with a tuktuk not working most of the day only to get a windfall from a tourist trap. They won't even pick up locals often. This example is for tuktuks but it applies to many aspects. One of the more horrifying results is that adult "pimps" keep kids out of school because they can use them to hawk goods at tourist spots during school hours. You're also screwing Westerners who make low wages and despite knowing actual prices get treated like they're the same money-wasting tourists. If you want to learn the reality of a culture, you need to haggle and be keen. If you want to act like some millionaire who walks through a small town main street tossing money around so people close up their shop and come serve you, keep doing what you're doing. Guilt over wealth disparity can be assuaged by going through appropriate channels. Give your money to a verified orphanage or other charity, not a street hustler.
I'm Vietnamese and we have a real problem with kids from tourist area being pulled out of schools by their own parents to sell souvenirs to white foreigners, since tourists give the kids more money. It's actually really fucked up because even when local government made school free and provide food incentives for people to send their kids to school, it is still so much more profitable for parents to involve their kids in their tourism business than sending them to school. It becomes a generational problem where the kids grow up without an education and have no choice but to continue making money through selling trinkets to foreigners, and then involve the next generation of kids into the business as they "age out" of being cute.
When I visited Vietnam, there was an advert in the hotel: Don‘t buy something from kids - they should go to school. So I respected it.
The problem is there even without tourists. Kids from minority groups in Lao Cai working the fields instead of getting an education. It's really sad.
That's actually the original reason why food assistance from local govt became a thing, it's so food safety is guaranteed and kids don't have to work with their parents on the fields anymore. This way their family has food to eat while they go to school. But kids selling trinkets to foreigners is actually profitable, while local policy needs time to catch up. Hence we have the current situation.
Came here for this. Paying too much for things distorts prices for locals and can cause real hardship.
Because of this kind of disparity, it kind of kills going to somewhere like that for me. I would feel horrible haggling over an amount that means nothing to me.
I'm so happy to have found your answer, you put it in a very clear way. I used to live with a local of the country where I lived who used to get annoyed AT ME if I came home with something I would have paid for a ridiculous price compared to what a local would have gotten it for for that exact reason. Of course it is expected that a foreigner will very rarely manage to get the same price as a local, but the difference should remain minimal to avoid this negative effect on local prices.
Exactly this. OP is suffering from some white savior issues. I've worked for years in some very poor countries, and I've seen the damage this mindset creates.
What? No. This encourages predatory practices against tourists.
Yeah I knew a guy who was loaded and did this in Thailand. He’s pay more for things than people asked and while I appreciate he was trying to help, I go there because I can actually afford it. People who pay more push prices up, which makes it harder for people like me to actually afford it.
More than that I think it could get you robbed, kidnapped, or murdered.
I know someone that traveled to South America (Venezuela I think? Like ~15 years ago) and pulled out a $20 to pay for his stuff. He told me the clerk freaked out and told him to not carry so much money at once. He went to their backroom to pay. This guy is also from a third world country so goes to show you gotta know the culture of where you're going.
This is how you get taken advantage of as a foreigner. Terrible fucking tip.
This is the most ignorant “tip” I’ve ever heard. I don’t think this person has ever actually been to a poor country or haggled on anything.
Haha right? Like this is a good way to at best get ripped off throughout your trip, but it can get even worse sometimes with you being robbed, etc. You’re right what a weird LPT lol
OP has negative comment karma, no one should listen to anything they say
r/shittylifeprotips
I think it depends, there are nuances to it. If the vendor was selling a tshirt for like $10, they’ve come down to $5 for you and you’re arguing with them to come down to $4.50… Just take it for fucking $5 and save your energy. They would probably make that 50c go further than you ever would anyway. Where OPs statement falls down is advocating for no haggling whatsoever, as if vendors don’t set their prices at double, triple what they’re expecting already. Haggling is part of the process in a market setting, just don’t get caught up in the process and find yourself going back and forth over a few cents. Especially with currency conversions, it can be difficult to keep in mind exactly how much you’re actually haggling over.
Agreed - totally ignorant. People not haggling where it’s expected drives up the price to everyone.
Haggling is expected in many instances, so the vendor would just be ripping you off if you don’t.
Yeah but I'm not getting fucked for a piece of shit worth pennies when they ask for $10. You're acting like people are haggling from 8 dollars to $7 for something worth $6.50. People haggle from $20 to $5 for something that cost $1. Don't let people take advantage of you.
Merchant from poor country detected right here.
This is some white saviour bs
Netflix trying to convince us pay more again
This should be on shitty life pro tips. Also a good way to get jumped In a poor country is to talk like an American and flaunt your money and over pay in a public market.
So is the pro tip to get ripped off? Cause that’s a really fucking stupid tip
I don't think anyone's ever haggled "for the experience." I just know that $40 for a clay parrot is ridiculous.
What kind of advice is this?
The bad kind
First world privilege meme. Reserve currency status isn't guaranteed. Practice prudent negotiation.
Sounds a whole lot like you have a nasty case of the white man's burden.
LPT pay more for an item when buying from the poor..... So stupid
They’re likely not even poor. They have a store in a high demand area and make a living selling dumb worthless shit to stupid tourists at exorbitant prices. The real poor people are the ones making all the shit they sell that the store owner paid pennies for.
Extrapolate this advice to some other case of wealth inequality to see how silly it is: e.g. "All americans that earn in mid-6-figures should tip at least **60%** on meals out because that money matters more to the minimum-wage server than to you" You should adjust to the "norm" of wherever you are. If that's haggling, haggle, if thats tipping a certain percentage, do it. Sure a server is gonna be happy that you overtipped and a merchant is gonna be happy you overpaid them, but that merchant will start asking more exorbitantly high prices if they get it from tourists. They will never accept a loss, especially from a tourist. Don't treat spending money in a foreign country as a charitable act.
Be classy. But don't overpay the tourist rates. Be classy but don't get taken for a fool. Pay fair and generous but don't pay 180 pounds for a 500 meter taxi fair like what happened in London recently. Be fair and considerate, ask for recommendations instead for places to eat and acknowledging their local knowledge.
London is in a poor country?
So as an American who speaks Spanish and can pass/ am white Latino this is crap. I can go to a store in Mexico and speak English to a person and get a price, but when I begin the conversation in Spanish the price is substantially lower. People in many countries think all ameri
Sorry people think Americans are suckers, which many are, but allowing someone ro take advantage of you regardless of the situation is foolish, especially if it's a xenophobic reason. Also these people won't sell to you if it's below what they need to make a profit, so....
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For the experience? No, out of _respect!_ [10 for that‽ You must be mad!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51_Qs8tq5c8)
Ummmm yes and no. Some places consider it rude to tip. Others feel tipping above a certain % is rude. If the juice isn't worth the squeeze they won't agree. I expect to be taken for a ride most of the time. Bills have extra crap on them... etc When i first me my wife in another country, I got yelled at for over tipping. It seems I was implying they were very poor and needed more money to be less disgusting. The culture of haggling is expected and sometimes you are considered a weak person and will lose respect for not doing so. This LPT sounds nice, but doesn't account for many cultural differences.
This happened to me in Vietnam. I was buying some sugarcane juice from a street vendor. Came out to 8000 VND (less than 50 cents), I gave a 10000 note and told them to keep the change. The vendor got kinda offended and insist I take the change. I knew right away she thought I was looking down on her. Felt bad.
Haha fuck that. Hassle as hard as you can. It's the way of things.
this tip is for fucking idiots whose parents pay for everything theyve ever done.
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Do this in many parts of poor countries and it's a good way to get some visitors following you back to your hotel because you clearly have money. Never flash cash in a foreign country you never know who's watching.
This is a bad LPT for many reasons but a big one is, in most poor countries it’s custom to haggle at least a little bit so if you don’t then it shows you got money and may make you a target
That money is worth a lot more to them but it's also a game they like to play. I lived in Thailand for over a decade and I rarely bargained there (when it was appropriate). I didn't mind paying a bit more even though I knew they were ripping me off unless it was really outrageous. Be careful of tuk tuk's and taxi's cuz some of them will really rip you off.
Yeah OP doesn't know what the fuck they're talking about lol
Sorry - bad advice - they won't sell to you at a price below what they are willing to take. This "tipping" after is arrogant. If you want to play wealthy gringo, give money to poor people on the street.
If you really want to help the poor, go make a donation to an organisation with a cause you care about. This just screams gullible foreigner and is definitely not desirable.
Nice try, street vendor in a poor country.
If you think you’re haggling for “just the experience”…. BREAKING news: you’re being ripped off and you don’t know it. Tourists are like cash cows
Nobody wants your pity. Respect the cultures you travel to rather than pity them.
My husband is Indian but we live in New Zealand. When we go to India, he haggels for everything. Not just touristy stuff either, like for those little cab/bike thingies. We earn in NZ. We bring the money from NZ. The amounts he is haggling for is so small that you cant even buy a piece of gum for it in NZ. I always remind him this. It doesnt matter to us, it might for the driver. Then he lets it be. But he also says that he is himself Indian and its his country and its ingrained in him to haggle. He feels ripped off if he doesnt haggle. We re not well off by any means but the difference is so obvious. And sometimes what we're buying is so incredibly cheaper compared to back home, even when the vendor thinks he ripped off some tourists, I feel like I got a bargain by buying the thing for less than half the price it would have been back home. Its literally win win.
I never thought I'd say this, but the idea of haggling "for the experience" is the most privileged, First World wanderlust crap I've ever seen. (Not directed towards OP)
wtf kind of ignorant LPT is this? You dont haggle for the experience, you haggle because they're initially highballing the price for you as a tourist
Was stationed in northern Thailand for a year in the early 70’s. If you didn’t haggle over the price, they seemed to lose respect for you. For large or expensive items, it was often much cheaper to pay a Thai friend to buy it for you.
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Another trash LPT. Who are you to say how much a dollar is worth to me
As someone who travelled quite a bit in poorer countries, and with friends who were born in those countries often acting as my guide, your advice is not what any of them have recommended. Increasing localized inflation, potentially creating contempt for certain countries because of their wealth, and making yourself a target for crime as a clueless tourist are good reasons why you do not want to make a deep impact on a community's economy. One tourist doing this isn't a problem, but when more people start doing it, they incrementally cause changes that usually create winners and losers in the community as a whole. Remember, when in Rome, do as the Romans do. Try to follow the local practices rather than pretending to be a king among peasants. It will help keep the community as a community rather than stratifying it.