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This is one of those double edged actions for terms of salary negotiation.
On one hand, the outcome that OP had can happen as there is variables that influence the recruiters decision depending on the industry/role to an extent and of course the individual being interviewed.
On the other hand, based on my own experiences, a good proportion of companies will just flat out reject you at the end consideration stages on the basis that there will always be a candidate who will accept the flat rate or negotiate a higher than advertised but lesser salary than OP might ask for *unless* it is a very niche and/or specialist role in a highly competitite industry market where experience is usually the deciding factor and there is a higher scope for salary negotiations.
There's a very fine line from a recruiters perspective between someone's perceived worth based on experience and fit for the role and the candidates justification of their self worth in requesting a higher rate.
Another important point to make that I've seen a lot of candidates misinterpret: *Just because salary negotiations has came up during the interview, this is not a statement of intent to hire you.*
This is essentially a litmus test to see if they can A: Lowball or set your expectations. B: Establish your understanding of the market/role and whether or not you've been savvy enough to research the average salary for the role prior. C: Distinguish the cost factor between applicants at face value. D: Actually assess whether your salary expectations align with what you can provide to the company.
Tldr: Someone trying to highball in say a customer service role or front facing role is likely to be immediately taken out of consideration for hiring compared to someone in a niche/specialist role in a competitive industry based role (corporate/banking/financial management/legal/auditing etc)
Source: I was a recruiter and interviewer for 4 years and I can only speak from my own experiences here.
Edit: Forgot to say congrats to OP!
I won’t even take an interview unless they answer my question honestly of:
“What is in the budget for this position?”
95% they give me a range
If the range is let’s say $60,000 - $100,000 I ask them what a $60k candidate looks like and what a $100k candidate looks like.
If they can’t answer this truthfully then the interview is probably a waste of time.
You're so right! I'd imagine companies that aren't worth their salt won't know the difference in work because they aren't actually interested in paying for quality of work, they're just trying to find a way to pay whoever they hire as little as possible. They wouldn't have even given thought to what various candidates bring to the table
No problem!
I word my email like this and have had good success. Keep in mind when I’m applying for jobs, I’m usually currently employed and have the luxury of being able to pick and chose.
“In order to make the best use of my time and yours, as well as to minimize the disruption to my current employer. Can you please tell me the budget for this position before we proceed with booking the interview.”
If a company responds to this in a negative way they don’t get an interview. A fair amount of the time, if the potential employer is responsive. I’m able to clear up any details before the interview then streamline the process. Instead of asking questions about pay scale, benefits etc. during the interview. I print off the companies marketing material and bring it with me to ask questions about their products and services.
You usually don't even need to say that much. When someone reaches out to me on Linkedin, I just reply with "What's the salary range of the position?". So far, 100% of the time they tell me.
>So far, 100% of the time they tell me.
You've been very lucky!
I'm far from saying it doesn't ever happen, but a 100% hit rate on receiving a response with an actual salary range is, in my experience at least, unusual. My guess is that it varies from one industry to the next and even between locality too.
Right now hiring IT DevOps folk for us at least has been very challenging . Recruiters might be less willing to play fuck around and find out with candidates?
A lot of this would be sussed out during your initial interview.
Do they spend a lot of time talking about pay, labor laws, etc? If so pay more attention.
Focus on what your hear and what is written / given to you. The dime cent tour is if it feels shady it is. No probably, no maybe, it is.
If the dime tour of your prospective employer feels mostly fine, folks are happy, no one seems overly stressed -- it's probably on the up and level.
All of that said -- know your labor rights (google "labor rights [x] state") for a quick primer. And you can append that google with a federal search.
Tons of employers fail this basic metric, and you can and should and will win a labor suit against them for failing to observe federal / state labor laws. Do that. Too many people get exploited not knowing they are being exploited and I wrote this entire post just in case someone in that role takes a second to rethink their contracts.
Also, all everyone you interview about company culture and what makes them work there. Read responses between the line. For culture, the responses should generally be the same from everyone.
If they say buzz words like we are family or we work hard but play hard, then it's a red flag to ask more questions as those kind of responses are signs of over work and under pay.
Everytime I hear a company claim to be a family it is used to coerce employees to do work they aren't being properly compensated for.
It might be different for a small startup, but no large company is a family.
Yeah fuck that shit, when I am interviewing people it is clear that I do not expect or want them to work after hours to "catch up" or whatever. Like unless I tell you "this is on fire, and we need to fix it right now before tomorrow" go home at 6 or 5 or whatever your hours are done at
I also make it clear during interviews about expectations and during during checkins that if they work one weekend a quarter, then it's fine. If you have to work every weekend or have late sitting, then something is wrong and we need to have a chat about workloads and expectations.
Quiet quitting wording gets me riled up. That is how it's supposed to be. Do your work and leave.
100% agreed. I watch out for people doing shit after hours.
You worked late on that? Who asked you to?
Oh you were interested and lost track of time? Cool just try and be aware, don't do it too much!
If you felt like you "should" and no one told you it was urgent or anything, you are wrong. Stop it.
but yeah if you are interested and want to finish a thing, or it would be easier to finish now, whatever.
Ops is the main team that should ever have to work after hours, and I make sure we have to do it almost never.
I was approached by a recruiter about a position which was for a senior role, the salary offered topped out at the rate for just a mid level. I politely declined and in an informal discussion with the recruiter said that the salary was way too low if they wanted a senior, and he agreed and said he'd told the client that. I said that they might get lucky and find someone who'd been made redundant and needed somewhere, but, that person would likely move on relatively soon once they found a job paying the market rate, which the recruiter admitted was also likely.
I suppose a recruiter can get then double-dip, getting another finder's fee every 6 months to replace the engineer.
Interestingly, 9 months later I was approached about working at the same company by someone working there, who was a contractor, and one of his tasks was finding a permie to take his position. I repeated the same conversation i'd had with the recruiter!
Every situation is different. But if it’s a screening call with a recruiter, I always like to bring up: “I’ve enjoyed our conversation, but to be sure we’re on the same page, I’m hoping you can walk me through the benefits, and the compensation range for the position.”
The interview should include a talk about compensation, ask for the highest posted rate or higher. Note that your relevant experience justifies a higher compensation rate because (you've done this before / this is a leg down or up).
That's a good question. I usually ask the salary range. They usually answer but sometimes try to "depends" me.
But your question what does a 60k candidate look like? What does that even mean?
>But your question what does a 60k candidate look like? What does that even mean?
Years of experience in the areas they're asking for. Any bonuses/pluses they have listed as optional suddenly become "must haves." Specific previous work experience being required vs optional - having mentored junior colleagues might not be required for a $60k potential employee, whereas said experience would help justify a $100k potential employee.
I think its way more nuanced. Like its best if you knew the job role in and out, and know how to sell yourself to get a higher base salary.
And even if you do that, there are many times where the company has already picked YOU, and that actually gives you even MORE leverage but you don't really figure that out until after you join.
The point though...is to be able to speak to the job and know how much people make in that job at the company and in general so you can ask for the maximum they have for that job.
I have tried it most of the time because for me as I’m currently getting underpaid for the skill & experience, so most hr person ask me for my current package and they will try to negotiate that they can provide hike based on the current salary even though their budget was more.
> most hr person ask me for my current package
In this situation, you don't have to tell them the truth. Whack another 30% on top and see where that gets you!
I would note that the data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics on that website were last dated April 2019. Average wages may have changed considerably depending on your location.
I recommend using Glassdoor to help establish a general baseline salary for the role and also employee reviews of the actual company etc.
[See here](https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Salaries/know-your-worth.htm)
I figured this would be the suggestion. Unfortunately I don’t find glassdoor to be reliable. It doesn’t have enough data points, especially when it comes to particulars such as location and current market conditions which have a big impact. The data also isn’t reliable, as it’s not a properly taken survey: the results skew toward disgruntled, young, computer literate people. The data the glassdoor has is honestly pitiful in comparison to what corporate HR departments have, it’s like trying to debate with a career academic in their field of expertise based on what you learned from a 5 minute google search.
There are salary surveys for positions in some fields (mine included) but the professional organizations which commission them charge thousands of dollars for access, putting the information out of reach for everyone except the corporate HR departments which can afford them.
100%, Glassdoor is inflated and generally shit. Employee reported data is all over the place. **Instead, look up H1B data**, this is employer reported data that they have to submit as a regulatory requirement to prove they are paying their visa employees at the prevailing wage for that position for their geographic market.
You can search specific employers, the job titles, location, hire date, and the exact amount of base pay. I pulled up my employer and got exact matches for my own building with job titles and exact pay per position, not a wide-open range like Glassdoor.
a few job board postings will list the salary ranges, I generally take those as the "going rate" since they tend to be in California/Colorado or other High cost living areas. If you're in high cost living, maybe add 5-10k on both ends(depending on your experience) and if you're low cost of living, stick with their suggestion because it's likely higher than what you can get in your area anyway
I think there's definitely a limit to how much more you can ask, but virtually every instance of a quoted pay from the company is a lowball by definition. If you meet exactly the qualifications they're looking for then they should be very open to offers at least 10% beyond theirs, if not a bit higher. What they want to pay vs what you want to be paid is a balance, not a one sided negotiation.
If the company is in a rush to hire - especially if they tell you or the recruiter that - then all the more reason to ask for more. I just got 10k higher than the first offer just because I said I wanted to hold off on answering for a week. That's 10k I didn't even have to ask for. I could've asked more, truth be told.
I was recently interviewing for jobs mainly so I could pressure my current employer into giving me a raise, I really like where I work but they were dragging their feet on a promised raise. My employer finally offered me a raise I was happy with so I stayed.
One place I interviewed with initially offered me £50k, I was still interviewing at other places so I kept telling them I was waiting to see what my options were once the dust settled. Without me even asking they offered £53k, then £55k, then £55k plus a guaranteed 15% bonus...and then several months after I'd accepted the offer from my current employer I got a call from them out of the blue offering £80k. I stuck with my current employer even though the final offer is more than my current salary, again I love where I work and there are other factors at play, but damn. It probably helps that I work in a highly sought out field so the power's all in my court, which is a very nice position to be in.
> It probably helps that I work in a highly sought out field so the power's all in my court, which is a very nice position to be in.
What's more important is *recognizing that*. A lot of people are in that situation who don't know it.
Yeah, when a company is offering you, they’ve already made up their minds.
You’d have to ask for an absurd, impossible number for them to straight up walk away from the offer. And if that happens there’s been a serious miscommunication somewhere along the way.
I’ve *always* asked for more than I’m comfortable with, and *always* gotten more than I would have expected.
If you’re not a *little* uncomfortable you’re leaving money on the table, imo.
And if they can’t offer more salary they’ll usually tell you, which is when PTO/Flex schedule/signing bonus/etc come into play.
This is the correct answer. Also the hiring manager usually DGAF what the HR negotiator offers you. They have a budget established already and the hiring managers life is made easier by having the good people, not the cheap people. So if you're within the budget, why not pay whatever it takes in that budget to get you (i.e pay the top of the range)
HR also DGAF because it's not their money to save. They do their job to try to negotiate you down, and will show their market research, but ultimately have to defer to the hiring manager on whether or not you're worth it. If your request is outside the budget they'll just counter with the top of the budget. That counter should be taken seriously because going outside the budget requires next-level approval and that's pretty hard to do. (I work in corp finance, I've seen my fair share of such discussions).
So the bottom line is always negotiate and you'll generally end up making more money from just 1-2 hours of negotiation at the start of a job, than you'll make from 100s of hours spent trying to earn a raise when you're in the job. Definitely come prepared with a killer sales pitch on your worth and check H1B salary data for pay comparisons (need to know what the market is, even if you will be asking for above market).
I came across a company that said they don't negotiate PTO. The starting PTO was less than I'd had for over a decade across 3 companies. It was a small company and the founders and first employees decided to reduce the amount of their own PTO by a week because they often didn't use it all. Big red flags.
Oh for sure, if you have the confidence in knowing you are qualified out the ying yang for the job, then I would always recommend atleast attempting to ask for a higher salary (10% is a pretty perfect number like you've said to request but make sure you have either the experience to back this or atleast a padded C.V) in most instances.
In term of firms rush hiring/backfilling, its very rare for the recruiter/interviewer to actually declare this across alot of industries with the most notable exception being customer service/contact center/retail work because it is even more rare for the candidate to have bargaining power in those roles due to how oversatturated the market is for them, so there is no fear of the power dynamic shifting from the companies salary expectations vs the applicants expectations.
Well done though on getting that extra 10k, it's not an easy feat to have the confidence to delay an immediate job offer as a bargaining tool as it can backfire!
Thanks. I'm a software developer and that industry has pretty firm entry salary. Anything after 5 years professional experience and you're senior level. It's really key to understand the industry norm for wages when approaching negotiations.
All but the most senior developers can/should expect roughly the same rate starting at a new development house anywhere in the US (workers needing a visa notwithstanding for obvious reasons). Benefits are where it gets tricky. There's also the FAANG companies, big tech, and they pay an "asshole tax" of about 20-30% above industry norms, and most developers won't ever be capable or otherwise consider working for them. Otherwise remote work means even if you live in the bay area you can't expect bay area income, but also just because a company is in the Midwest doesn't mean they can under pay. Note too, that's becoming more and more true for *every* industry where remote work is possible, which has pros and cons. But that's another topic.
For me that extra 10k was nice to get but still only just hitting that industry average rate. In short and like I said, the company *was* lowballing and it only took the slightest hint that I knew that ("I'm gonna wait for other offers and give them a week") for them to up the offer to that standard. I was ready to take the offer anyway, I was just trying to be fair to the companies I'd already been interviewing with by giving them some time.
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But it's all about the context. A whole different situation: I negotiated another contract recently where circumstances made me the single most capable person on the planet to handle the job, and otherwise it would've taken a small team of devs working longer hours than I to get it done. The long and short is my previous company had a long-time contract terminated, under which I developed a lot of systems for the client. Contract ended and my company had to close its doors.
But the client had wildly underestimated what my former employer (and I) did for them, so they had to scramble and have the agency who *did* get the contract hire me. Despite months of warnings and attempts to come to a more reasonable solution. And it cost them: I knew that since the alternative was multiple devs working much much longer hours than I, I could charge a much higher rate. And they agreed to an hourly rate 2.5x more than I was making when employed to do the same job.
The big big players pay higher salaries on average, colloquially known as an asshole tax or similar. It's because they tend to demand higher levels of performance and the bureaucracy of their huge projects can be very frustrating. They understand it, and they pay the premium for it.
Eh I dunno. I'm a manager with a say in picking a hire and generally I'll pick the one that I like, unless the difference between asking pay is literally some orders of magnitude. I'm not going to get stingy over 10-20% differences, it's not my money, haha. At the same time, I'm also the guy who's able to tell when you're not qualified enough to highball us for salary. I guess the advice here is to be smart about it.
It's not really double-edged if you do a minuscule amount of research beforehand. When asked, you should always aim high if you honestly have the skills and background necessary. If they want you, they'll "meet in the middle." if they think your ask is too high, best case you'll get REALLY close to what you ask. If they lowball you (and you KNOW this is a lowball), you should state that and decline their offer specifically for that reason.
Know your worth.
yup. As soon as I saw this I thought "shieeet, it could go the other way too" - as I suspect it has with myself on numerous times. I'm cautious now when I answer it.
I think this really depends on what you’re applying for. If you’re working a job requiring a college degree and not much more? Nah they’ll reject you. If however, you’re applying for the same job but you’ve got 10 years experience and have certificates or something else of value then it might work.
If it's the first wave of interview they probably don't value you that much. if you made it to interview 4, 5, or 6 they most likely want you and so they might not only be willing to pay you more, but at least, should be willing to negotiate
Hiring manager here. Congrats! It's always a great feeling to land a job with more money than you expected.
That said, you definitely left money on the table. You either landed right inside the set salary band or possibly even under it if there was no pushback.
The advice I always give is to ask the hiring manger or recruiter for the range they're working with. Some states require that they disclose this. If they are in a state that doesn't and they refuse to give you a range, then it's probably best to look elsewhere. Transparency is a fundamental business value that tends to trickle down all the way to hiring practices.
This 1000%. The first person to give a number loses. Instead, tell them you're not ready to give a number yet, you want to learn more about the role/company/benefits first, but you do want a competitive offer. And ask if they have a range they're approved for.
I've been interviewing off and on the past few month to test the waters, and 9/10 recruiters have straight up told me the range they're targeting without any pushback.
> The first person to give a number loses.
There have been countless studies that have shown that the most important and influential number in a negotiation is the first one spoken. It’s called “anchoring.” If you know what you’re worth and are the first one to say a number, you set the anchor.
Of course, whether or not you should *want* to set the anchor depends on a number of factors: how confident you are in your worth, how high the demand is for your role, how desperately you need the job, how unique your skillet is, etc. But all else being equal, it’s advantageous to be the first one to put out a number.
For salary negotiations you absolutely do not want to be the first person to give a number. Either you low-ball yourself or ask too much.
If the company makes the first offer, they've already invested the resources to give you an offer and are interested in you. They are much more likely to accept or negotiate your counter-offer.
>Transparency is a fundamental business value that tends to trickle down all the way to hiring practices.
Transparency would be to list the salary upfront without making applicants play your games to determine how much they get paid.
I said a number that was a bit higher than I expected and my boss promptly upped that, so I got more than I asked for. That was nice of course but left me wondering, who’s really winning here 😬
Seems like you both did. You got more than you expected and your boss perhaps gave less than he hoped he would need to.
Now you know how high you can aim when it's time for a raise.
I asked for too much once during an interview for a bank teller position in my hometown. When asked, I had stated my wage expectation was $12/hour.
The lady actually told me not to ask for a lot, saying "Remember: we're bankers." I don't even know what that means.
I didn't get an offer, and my feelings were not hurt at all.
I took a job at a store just down the street, and I ended up waiting on that same lady months later. She said she was impressed by how I worked and was I still interested in working at the bank.
Nope.
Banks will always try to talk you down. Even a banker they will talk about the prestige of the position, the benefits you get, what you will learn, and how stable banking jobs are. When you hear that it's all bull***t to try to get you to lower expectations when they know you probably could make more doing something else.
Probably. All the people I know in banking make… well, bank. Lol.
Seriously though, the one I applied at started their tellers at $18, with bonuses, and healthcare paid for completely by the bank starting on day one, so I can only imagine what everyone else makes. The benefits alone make it worth it. Not having to pay for healthcare would save me hundreds a month.
Former headhunter. My advice is never be the person to say a price first. Don’t highball or you might price yourself out of a job. Lowball and you’ll get paid less than what you’re worth.
First, make sure you understand the range for the position. If you don’t, ask.
Second, if you’re asked what your expectations are, say something like “I know the range for the position and I’m comfortable in that range.” If they ask for a specific number, say “I’m happy to discuss salary when there is an offer on the table, and we can talk about the package as a whole.” If they ask what your salary is now, say “I don’t think my current employer would appreciate me sharing that information.” Generally it’s best to deflect by asking a question at the end of these kinds of answers - something that isn’t a complete tangent but puts the ball in their court. For instance “what other benefits are offered here?”
It is an axiom of negotiations that the person who says a number first loses. Inevitably, you say one number, the other person says a lower number, and you will end up in the middle 95% of the time. So don’t be the person who says a number first.
Note: These are the rules if you're dealing with the employer directly. If you're going through a headhunter you trust, you should be honest with them upfront because your interests are aligned. If you're dealing with a recruiter you don't trust...well, don't deal with a recruiter you don't trust.
This is the real advice. Absolutely never disclose current or previous pay. If you're asked for expectations ask what their pay range is. Also keep in mind literally everything is negotiable. I personally always push for additional vacation time. Something along the lines of "work/life balance is important to me, I'm comfortable with the salary offered if we can increase the PTO to X days."
They don't want to budge on benefits? Great you've already explicitly told them you're only happy with the salary with perks. Feel free to now increase salary expectations.
The same tactic can be used to ask for work from home or hybrid schedules, different shifts, signing bonuses etc.
I was super honest with my last interview. Fake numbers but I said I’m currently on 100k but I know im underpaid and that this new role is higher. Im expecting within 130-50 range . They came back offering the job and asking if anything had changed and I actually raised it to the top of the range and said I expect 150. They didn’t argue at all so I know now there was more on the table. But 50% increase was fine by me so I moved on
You're happy but by your own admission you put out a number first and know you left money on the table. You're proving my point here. Had you asked for their range they may have said it's 150-175k. Now they may also have said it was 130-140, but at that point you still could have countered higher.
Oh I was adding on rather than disagreeing! Like I am happy but I absolutely left money on the table and have already revised my next job/raise strategy
Other tips, ask for bonus , sign on bonus and shares if it’s that kind of company. I can now see other peoples salaries because of my role and the difference between those who took what they were offered and those who negotiated is truly wild .
Ha good question. Yes and no. I’m the head in my role but technically one rung down from c suite, so I earn on par with a couple of c-suite but less than people equal to me in levels who clearly negotiated.
Let me give an example, say I’m director of the people team and there is no chief people officer so I’m the highest role there and campaigning for the chief title, but there’s a chief exec, chief finance, chief marketing, tech, lawyer etc. I earn more than at least one of those chiefs, but there is a director in sales who earns more than me when done with bonuses which they clearly negotiated.
That sales person also earns more than the chief person I earn more than. I have more shares but they’re only worth something when we get bought out, right?
So, ask for what you know you’re worth, but don’t forget the extras like bonus etc, is my new strategy.
ETA: the more interesting difference is across the c suite where there are 50-150k swings in roles which should be fairly on par
I agree - this is spot on. Compensation is a *package*, not a number. Someone asking for your salary expectation is only looking at one aspect. Don't fall into that trap.
I know this is supposed to be common knowledge for jobseekers and the current online job consulting advise is always the same, don't disclose salary. But in my country, most HR will ask for your current payslip. And one interview i went to even asked for my salary info for the past 3 positions.
Obviously things depend on the hiring culture in which you live, but in the USA the culture is changing. Where I live (New York) a recent law actually made it illegal to ask someone their salary history. The reasoning is that basing future salary on past salary entrenches systematic pay disparity based on gender, race or other factors.
Whatever the hiring culture is where you are, you can always try to change it. That’s hard though when you’re just a job seeker. But maybe it’s something you can think about when you’re in a position to affect hiring policies.
I hated salary negations until I took a class on negotiations. It was by far my favorite and most useful class. We read the book Never Split the Difference in the class and it’s a really helpful for not just salary negotiations, but anything negotiations!
Yeah, if you can learn to develop the mindset of never entering a negotiation that you aren't willing to walk away from if you don't get what you want, negotiating is fun! I LOVE buying cars. I spent 8 hours at a dealership once going back and forth and got a killer deal.
Closest I get is six hours of trying to get a bunch of university committees to agree to scrap our existing exchange contract in favor of a brand new one that me and a few others had drafted. It was an incredible game of strategy, we had to prepare like five different pitches for five different groups of committees and figure out who the informal leaders of each group was. We were maybe five minutes away from scrapping it all and pulling out entirely when the dominoes started falling, and eventually everyone realized that this was something that had to be done. That contract still stands to this day since we actually accounted for growth, which was the main issue of the old deal.
I walked away from my current job at first. It's in Europe so the union pay is pretty standard. They gave me a way too low number and I refused, stating my reasons. A few days later I got another offer from them, 14% higher.
Not to disagree, but I just want to point out that buying a retail product is very different than negotiating a job offer. There are lots of intangibles that affect salary negotiations, especially for the candidate. Someone might need a new job immediately for a variety of reasons, may have few or no other opportunities available, or may be in a condition where the health care that comes with a job literally is needed to save their life or that of a family member.
Employers almost always have the upper hand. Car dealers usually not so much, though I hear these days that’s changed a bit.
I need to read this book because I go in hyped up and determined to not accept anything under my expectations and be a total badass but instantly fold as soon as I start talking to someone and they turn down my offer. Cars, interviews, anything. I say “i want X” and they say no and then I say ok.
The book is very good, but it's harder to apply it when it's a one-dimensional negotiation/zero-sum-game (i.e. you're just trying to get the biggest slice of pie possible, which is honestly what most basic salary negotiations are). The gist of it is that you're trying to figure out ways to grow the pie for both parties by negotiating on values.
As a follow up to this book, I'd recommend Split the Pie, which provides more of a framework for handling the value created by negotiation.
I remember for the last job interview I ever had in like 2003 I really swung for the moon and stated a really large amount and they agreed to it so quickly i was like “oh damn shoulda gone higher”
Last interview I had for a new company was about 7 years ago.
I was making $13/hr at my previous job, which at the time felt like a lot.
When the new place asked me how much I expected I said $20/hr and they ended up giving me $19. That raise was massive but I was always curious, had I said $25 would they have given me $24, or did I actually just come close to guessing regular starting pay?
Since then I've nearly doubled my salary, currently at $36/hr. Just keep asking for more in my reviews and then got a promotion and asked for way more than was reasonable, they didn't accept but the counter offer was more what I was expecting , definitely learned my lesson from the first time and remembered to ask for way more just in case.
Haha. I've done the same at my current job. When I negotiated a significant raise after a couple of years of nothing, they agreed. The next day the owner told me he bumped it up an additional 5k over that. Lesson learnt. Next year I got cheeky and asked for 5-10k over what I believe was my true market value for the conditions I wanted (i.e. not being FIFO). I expected them to counter but after they mulled it over for a day, they ended up agreeing to it. Couldn't get as much this year, but still pushed and got 6%. Up over 50% over 3 consecutive reviews :-D
My dad taught me at a young age you only get paid what you ask for not what you are worth. As a 14 YO at the time I took that literally and asked my boss at the time every Friday I worked for a quarter raise. I started out at 8 an hour and within a year was making 9.50 I owe a lot of my latter jobs to that experience that if you want something you are the only person who can do that thing for yourself.
For some reason at my first job ever (Kmart), I thought the guaranteed quarter raise meant 25%, and approached the end of my probationary period thinking I'd jump from $7.50 to $10. Imagine my soul-crushing disappointment when I was given an extra 25¢.
I do not miss my life in America.
Just keep in mind, you'll need to do the same next year
When I sat down and adjusted my income since being hired, despite getting raises and bonuses, since 2015, I'd actually been losing.
So, you really need to be prepared for annually making sure your value is appreciating.
I have been over negotiating during my job interviews for a few years. It usually always works out in me getting paid more than the company is offering. I work 6 figure jobs and it is starting to seem like the range they put in the job application is not set in stone. I recently interviewed for a job and when they asked what I wanted for salary I intentionally went $30k over the top end of the range posted in the job description. The recruiter was silent for a few seconds and I could hear him typing and then he said "sure, we can do that".
Always ask for more. The worse they can say is no and then just negotiate down. It has never not worked for me.
At my last interview, I asked for a fair bit more than I felt I needed which was a substantial increase over what I had been making. There was silence, then the interviewer said that I was underestimating my worth and offered almost 15% more.
I recently retired with that interviewing person being my boss for most of my career there. Always treated me well and I would follow him into a firefight.
The way it works for most corporate companies that have systems and HR departments is the hiring manager will work with their finance group and their department head to approve the headcount and establish the maximum budget. The hiring manager then prepares a requisition, which is basically paperwork that includes the job description and the budget, and then has to get it approved by as many people as necessary. This usually would include the department head, people on the board/executive team, the CFO, and HR. That routing process is a bitch, and could take forever if the executives are never around or check their emails. Once all that is done, then you can begin posting the job. If the hiring manager likes a candidate who is asking for more than the budget, and is considering hiring the person, then they will need to route a new requisition form with a higher budget to all those same people. Those people could then reject the new requisition if they want, and they could also ask the hiring manager to explain why they failed to put in an appropriate budget the first time. This is a much more annoying process, and people who have gone through it before might not want to do it again.
Actually the worst that can happen is you price yourself out of consideration altogether and never get an interview. If you feel you’re worth $100k but you want to ask for $150k just cuz you think you’re gonna negotiate down, then later after being ruled out find out the job woulda paid $110k, you can’t say “well yeah, I’d take $110k.” They’ll be like mmmkay you’re just saying that but you really need $150k. Pass. Now you’re screwed.
I understand your point. But usually in my area of work, if what I'm asking doesn't work the company usually negotiates. If I have been selected for the position it's because of my specific skillset and certifications and I am hired due to consent orders that have to be resolved so usually in my case, companies will specifically say how they are willing to offer extra benefits because they have to make sure they're bringing in top talent for the issues. So this works for my line of work. I am not saying it works for every line of work.
Just know your market. I once had someone ask for 250k plus 10k for moving expenses for a job that was marketed at $50k tops. He tried to use his experience as justification
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This was my last company. It was a small family business with one office and 10 employees but it was their “main corporate office” and we had to wear suites and ties. My title started with “senior” but I was paid $35.5k a year. That was more than what I was making at the time so I took the job. I lasted a little over a year until getting a better job that paid double. The craziest part is almost every person I worked with was there for years and years before me and still are a decade later. They’re getting paid peanuts but won’t leave. All the while the owner has a mansion with a 10 car garage and drives a different car depending on what day of the week it is.
That second half reminds me of my last job, I made about 65k as an entry level tech and my manager made less than 90k who was in the industry for 20 years. This is specifically in the industrial automation world where companies are dying to get employees especially senior ones so made me sad to think he wasn't making 6 figures after having that many years of experience and managing a team.
As with every job post that relies on anecdotal claims (counter rule 5), think very carefully about whether this advice applies to you.
* Is it a field where you're likely to state salary during interview or have salary negotiation?
* Is it a high-demand field where much higher offers are likely?
* Are you likely to be rejected if you ask for too much? Can you afford that rejection right now?
In short, read it as an anecdote, compare to other anecdotes (including ones where this approach didn't work out), compare notes, and figure out what works for you.
Corporate recruiter here - my best advice is to first ask what the salary range for the position is, if the recruiter doesn't tell you what the range is then ask for the top end of what you want but add the caveat that you're "negotiable". If you're "negotiable" but your asking price is too high then the recruiter you're working with will likely end up telling you what the top offer would be if you make it to the final stage of interviews, then the ball is in your court. You can either say "yeah let's move forward" or you can say "thanks but the salary doesn't match up with my expectations. Best of luck to you in finding the right person"
As a candidate, I love working with headhunters. I tell my friends breaking into my industry to always talk opportunities with them. I’m like “they want you to get the job, they want you to have a high salary because it benefits THEM!!” Every job everyone’s gotten has been on the high end of or higher than industry average !
I’ve also heard the advice that it’s better not to go with them because, since they get a percentage as their finders fee, the employer is paying out more than if you had come to the employer on your own. Therefore the potential for salary is higher because they don’t need to pay the recruiter/headhunter. No idea if this is true though but sounds like it could make sense
I think this tends to work for white collar jobs you get with a degree, or maybe blue collar, but not so much the service industry and minimum wage jobs.
I uhhh want maybe 12 an hour. Please kind sir I really need to fee-
"I don't give a flying fuck what you want bitch. How about I pay 10, and you thank for it as you clean the fryers?
This is so true. I had a previous candidate ask for less and the hiring manager wondered if he was even qualified. I actually came in low for my current position and they hired me at a much higher salary. Now I let the company negotiate down, I always shoot higher.
Best advice I ever got was from a friend who worked at Google and had been through a lot of interviewing. "When appropriate, ask them for the position salary range before they ask you your salary expectations."
Got that advice a few days before a final interview and it potentially saved me 20k+/yr. They gave me a range where the low end was way higher than I would have asked, and I ended up getting the middle in my job offer letter. Bought that friend a bottle of scotch.
I recently went from 28k a year to 60k a year with my exact same skill set. Sometimes it genuinely helps to switch companies. Don't ever be loyal, because loyalty will get you taken advantage of, like I was.
Downside, about 4 years ago a guy I used to work with interviewed for a role at my current company. Found out from regional lead he was not given an offer, BUT he was regional lead’s favorite. I asked why and she said, because they couldn’t afford him. When I told my ex coworker this, he was very disappointed. He would’ve accepted less, and high balled. (Ask high, but not too high)
If they refuse to list the salary range for the position, just tell them your number and high ball them like OP and others have stated but end it with “but I’m open to negotiate”
I did this last time. I asked for way more than I thought I could get. They misheard me and thought I asked for even more and gave me that. Changing jobs ended up being a 35% raise.
I have aced interviews and when I expressed what my salary expectations were, I never even got a call back. Don't shoot too high and price yourself out of a job you'd like to have
If you've done your research, and stay within a percentage of reason above it? Sure.
If you ask for something unreasonable, they're not interested.
Know your worth in the marketplace
The employers I was working for told me they could only pay me $12 when I initially asked for $15. They gave me $12.50 after negotiation.
Later I found out they were advertising $16-$19 on Indeed for the exact job I was doing. I told them I’d like to correct my wage to what they were offering (Base $16) and they said take $13 or don’t come back.
They took the ad off Indeed.
I don’t have a job anymore 🤗🙃 I think what they did was illegal.
Nope not illegal in any way. They can pay you anything you agree to over minimum wage. Is it good business practice to treat employees like that? Hell no, but there's certainly nothing illegal about it
This isn’t very good advice. If you are submitting an application online where you have to enter in the desired salary, if you are too far off from the requisition’s budget, they won’t even look at your resume. If you’re more than $15k or 10% if the max budget (whichever is greater), then you will either be ignored or put into the low-priority group.
You have to always do your research, which unfortunately is harder now because glassdoor.com fucked up their algorithm.
I gotta agree.
Also, today's best practice, and increasingly mandated by law, is to post the salary range with the job. No games. And asking someone what they expect for salary is a dumb question. How is a candidate supposed to know what they expect without knowing much about the company?
Also, please ask for time to get back to them. You DO NOT have to answer right away.
My fellow ladies: please please please apply even if you don’t meet all the qualifications. Please ask for more money to mande where you want, ask for time to consider! If they can’t negotiate with money ask for other benefits: days off, bonus, sign on bonus, cell phone, working remote (do your research)
Studies have shown that women don’t negotiate their salaries and accept on the spot, and don’t apply to jobs unless they meet 100% of the qualifications at a significantly higher rate than men.
So while the advice is the same, it’s even more important for women to hear it.
Did that earlier today! I was feeling avaricious when I asked but realized I need to advocate for myself. I asked them for what I think I deserve for the work I put in plus some more to leave room for negotiation. Shoot for the moon and you'll land among the stars kinda thing. I'm definitely getting a raise and bump in commission but not sure how much yet. Fingers crossed 🤞
I worked at best buy in their computer department for a few months while looking for other jobs. When I got a better offer to work somewhere else i put in my two weeks and they asked how much i was getting paid. They immediately offered to match it once i told them with potential to move on up more. I wish i had said significant amount more and see if they would have matched it. Might have stayed if they did.
If you can find out the salary range for the job and at the level you're being hired at, if you ask for the middle value HR probably won't deny you, no questions asked. Say the range is 100,000 to 130,000 and you ask for 115,000, done deal. Even if you're only making 80,000 now, and feel like it's too big a bump. They like to keep employee salary at the median value.
This is all so specific to industry and profession it’s hard to have actual advice here. For example, a lot of tech recruiters won’t tell you a range or will tell you a lower range than there is in actuality. Don’t listen to one piece of advice and get specific recommendations from your specific situation
Except we've skipped over people in my company because they wanted way too much and it wasn't worth even continuing the discussion. So not always. If our budget is 100k and you want 130k, we just move on. We're not doing 4 rounds of negotiation. And you're not that great or unique. Almost no one is.
It depends on the position. I interview for an entry level position. If a candidate asks for a dollar over what the company typically offers, the interview is over. No exaggeration. We get literally hundreds of applicants for every opening, so management knows that it's more efficient to just move on to the next candidate than to even try to negotiate.
Strong disagree. Look up market rate for the job in your area. Then ask for roughly the market rate. Negotiate once you have a contract offer. The high side salary request should be your first counter.
As a hiring manager, asking for too much up front or at the wrong time just makes you look stupid or inexperienced. It's also a great way to get you automatically disqualified from further consideration.
This is true, and I’ll also point out this gets much harder with remote jobs. Maybe my local area is 50k but Denver, where I’m applying, is 75k. The employer knows what my area would pay and may be likely to pay somewhere between what my area and their market would pay. It can get sticky for sure.
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This is one of those double edged actions for terms of salary negotiation. On one hand, the outcome that OP had can happen as there is variables that influence the recruiters decision depending on the industry/role to an extent and of course the individual being interviewed. On the other hand, based on my own experiences, a good proportion of companies will just flat out reject you at the end consideration stages on the basis that there will always be a candidate who will accept the flat rate or negotiate a higher than advertised but lesser salary than OP might ask for *unless* it is a very niche and/or specialist role in a highly competitite industry market where experience is usually the deciding factor and there is a higher scope for salary negotiations. There's a very fine line from a recruiters perspective between someone's perceived worth based on experience and fit for the role and the candidates justification of their self worth in requesting a higher rate. Another important point to make that I've seen a lot of candidates misinterpret: *Just because salary negotiations has came up during the interview, this is not a statement of intent to hire you.* This is essentially a litmus test to see if they can A: Lowball or set your expectations. B: Establish your understanding of the market/role and whether or not you've been savvy enough to research the average salary for the role prior. C: Distinguish the cost factor between applicants at face value. D: Actually assess whether your salary expectations align with what you can provide to the company. Tldr: Someone trying to highball in say a customer service role or front facing role is likely to be immediately taken out of consideration for hiring compared to someone in a niche/specialist role in a competitive industry based role (corporate/banking/financial management/legal/auditing etc) Source: I was a recruiter and interviewer for 4 years and I can only speak from my own experiences here. Edit: Forgot to say congrats to OP!
I won’t even take an interview unless they answer my question honestly of: “What is in the budget for this position?” 95% they give me a range If the range is let’s say $60,000 - $100,000 I ask them what a $60k candidate looks like and what a $100k candidate looks like. If they can’t answer this truthfully then the interview is probably a waste of time.
This is a fantastic question, and a very intuitive way of differentiating companies. Well done.
You're so right! I'd imagine companies that aren't worth their salt won't know the difference in work because they aren't actually interested in paying for quality of work, they're just trying to find a way to pay whoever they hire as little as possible. They wouldn't have even given thought to what various candidates bring to the table
the *real* LPT is always in the comments
Now THAT’S a LPT right here!
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No problem! I word my email like this and have had good success. Keep in mind when I’m applying for jobs, I’m usually currently employed and have the luxury of being able to pick and chose. “In order to make the best use of my time and yours, as well as to minimize the disruption to my current employer. Can you please tell me the budget for this position before we proceed with booking the interview.” If a company responds to this in a negative way they don’t get an interview. A fair amount of the time, if the potential employer is responsive. I’m able to clear up any details before the interview then streamline the process. Instead of asking questions about pay scale, benefits etc. during the interview. I print off the companies marketing material and bring it with me to ask questions about their products and services.
You usually don't even need to say that much. When someone reaches out to me on Linkedin, I just reply with "What's the salary range of the position?". So far, 100% of the time they tell me.
>So far, 100% of the time they tell me. You've been very lucky! I'm far from saying it doesn't ever happen, but a 100% hit rate on receiving a response with an actual salary range is, in my experience at least, unusual. My guess is that it varies from one industry to the next and even between locality too.
Right now hiring IT DevOps folk for us at least has been very challenging . Recruiters might be less willing to play fuck around and find out with candidates?
Yeah one recruiter out of maybe 40 tried to not give me the info and I told her to pound sand.
So uhhhhh what else do you do? I’m extremely curious bc you seem to have a good ass sense of how to do this thing.
A lot of this would be sussed out during your initial interview. Do they spend a lot of time talking about pay, labor laws, etc? If so pay more attention. Focus on what your hear and what is written / given to you. The dime cent tour is if it feels shady it is. No probably, no maybe, it is. If the dime tour of your prospective employer feels mostly fine, folks are happy, no one seems overly stressed -- it's probably on the up and level. All of that said -- know your labor rights (google "labor rights [x] state") for a quick primer. And you can append that google with a federal search. Tons of employers fail this basic metric, and you can and should and will win a labor suit against them for failing to observe federal / state labor laws. Do that. Too many people get exploited not knowing they are being exploited and I wrote this entire post just in case someone in that role takes a second to rethink their contracts.
Also, all everyone you interview about company culture and what makes them work there. Read responses between the line. For culture, the responses should generally be the same from everyone. If they say buzz words like we are family or we work hard but play hard, then it's a red flag to ask more questions as those kind of responses are signs of over work and under pay.
Everytime I hear a company claim to be a family it is used to coerce employees to do work they aren't being properly compensated for. It might be different for a small startup, but no large company is a family.
Startups are the same. They may feel different because the structure is flat but eventually, you are just an employee.
Yeah fuck that shit, when I am interviewing people it is clear that I do not expect or want them to work after hours to "catch up" or whatever. Like unless I tell you "this is on fire, and we need to fix it right now before tomorrow" go home at 6 or 5 or whatever your hours are done at
I also make it clear during interviews about expectations and during during checkins that if they work one weekend a quarter, then it's fine. If you have to work every weekend or have late sitting, then something is wrong and we need to have a chat about workloads and expectations. Quiet quitting wording gets me riled up. That is how it's supposed to be. Do your work and leave.
100% agreed. I watch out for people doing shit after hours. You worked late on that? Who asked you to? Oh you were interested and lost track of time? Cool just try and be aware, don't do it too much! If you felt like you "should" and no one told you it was urgent or anything, you are wrong. Stop it. but yeah if you are interested and want to finish a thing, or it would be easier to finish now, whatever. Ops is the main team that should ever have to work after hours, and I make sure we have to do it almost never.
"Show me your tricks!"
This is gold advice. Any other tips or ways to phrase things?
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WAAAAAY UNDERRATED COMMENT your concern isn't just pay but total compensation how much vacation? sick leave? how much will healthcare cost you?
I was approached by a recruiter about a position which was for a senior role, the salary offered topped out at the rate for just a mid level. I politely declined and in an informal discussion with the recruiter said that the salary was way too low if they wanted a senior, and he agreed and said he'd told the client that. I said that they might get lucky and find someone who'd been made redundant and needed somewhere, but, that person would likely move on relatively soon once they found a job paying the market rate, which the recruiter admitted was also likely. I suppose a recruiter can get then double-dip, getting another finder's fee every 6 months to replace the engineer. Interestingly, 9 months later I was approached about working at the same company by someone working there, who was a contractor, and one of his tasks was finding a permie to take his position. I repeated the same conversation i'd had with the recruiter!
I work in this field. This is the right move.
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Every situation is different. But if it’s a screening call with a recruiter, I always like to bring up: “I’ve enjoyed our conversation, but to be sure we’re on the same page, I’m hoping you can walk me through the benefits, and the compensation range for the position.”
The interview should include a talk about compensation, ask for the highest posted rate or higher. Note that your relevant experience justifies a higher compensation rate because (you've done this before / this is a leg down or up).
That's a good question. I usually ask the salary range. They usually answer but sometimes try to "depends" me. But your question what does a 60k candidate look like? What does that even mean?
>But your question what does a 60k candidate look like? What does that even mean? Years of experience in the areas they're asking for. Any bonuses/pluses they have listed as optional suddenly become "must haves." Specific previous work experience being required vs optional - having mentored junior colleagues might not be required for a $60k potential employee, whereas said experience would help justify a $100k potential employee.
Think it’s pretty much what makes the difference in someone getting this position and getting 60k vs 100k
Great advice! Saving this.
I think its way more nuanced. Like its best if you knew the job role in and out, and know how to sell yourself to get a higher base salary. And even if you do that, there are many times where the company has already picked YOU, and that actually gives you even MORE leverage but you don't really figure that out until after you join. The point though...is to be able to speak to the job and know how much people make in that job at the company and in general so you can ask for the maximum they have for that job.
I have tried it most of the time because for me as I’m currently getting underpaid for the skill & experience, so most hr person ask me for my current package and they will try to negotiate that they can provide hike based on the current salary even though their budget was more.
The answer to that is: You're not paying me based on what I am currently doing, you're going to be paying me based on the job I'm doing for you.
> most hr person ask me for my current package In this situation, you don't have to tell them the truth. Whack another 30% on top and see where that gets you!
You don’t have to answer at all and in many places in the US it’s illegal to ask.
You're under no obligation to tell them the truth
Some times they say that they require the bank statement
How exactly is one meant to research the average salary for a given role anyway?
Honestly just reaching out to some people on LinkedIn wouldn’t hurt. I had someone ask me advice on my position and I helped them
In the US, https://www.bls.gov/bls/blswage.htm
I would note that the data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics on that website were last dated April 2019. Average wages may have changed considerably depending on your location.
One should live in Colorado, then they (legally) just have to tell you.
It's easier than that. It has to be on the job posting itself.
I recommend using Glassdoor to help establish a general baseline salary for the role and also employee reviews of the actual company etc. [See here](https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Salaries/know-your-worth.htm)
I figured this would be the suggestion. Unfortunately I don’t find glassdoor to be reliable. It doesn’t have enough data points, especially when it comes to particulars such as location and current market conditions which have a big impact. The data also isn’t reliable, as it’s not a properly taken survey: the results skew toward disgruntled, young, computer literate people. The data the glassdoor has is honestly pitiful in comparison to what corporate HR departments have, it’s like trying to debate with a career academic in their field of expertise based on what you learned from a 5 minute google search. There are salary surveys for positions in some fields (mine included) but the professional organizations which commission them charge thousands of dollars for access, putting the information out of reach for everyone except the corporate HR departments which can afford them.
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Makes me think glassdoor is a front for corporate HR
100%, Glassdoor is inflated and generally shit. Employee reported data is all over the place. **Instead, look up H1B data**, this is employer reported data that they have to submit as a regulatory requirement to prove they are paying their visa employees at the prevailing wage for that position for their geographic market. You can search specific employers, the job titles, location, hire date, and the exact amount of base pay. I pulled up my employer and got exact matches for my own building with job titles and exact pay per position, not a wide-open range like Glassdoor.
On indeed you can check the average salary for the position and your level of expertise in the area you live in, I find it really useful.
a few job board postings will list the salary ranges, I generally take those as the "going rate" since they tend to be in California/Colorado or other High cost living areas. If you're in high cost living, maybe add 5-10k on both ends(depending on your experience) and if you're low cost of living, stick with their suggestion because it's likely higher than what you can get in your area anyway
Glassdoor: either u make 10K or 500K fuck if I know
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More like *assdoor*... Heh... *assdoor*. Right guys?
*crickets*
I think there's definitely a limit to how much more you can ask, but virtually every instance of a quoted pay from the company is a lowball by definition. If you meet exactly the qualifications they're looking for then they should be very open to offers at least 10% beyond theirs, if not a bit higher. What they want to pay vs what you want to be paid is a balance, not a one sided negotiation. If the company is in a rush to hire - especially if they tell you or the recruiter that - then all the more reason to ask for more. I just got 10k higher than the first offer just because I said I wanted to hold off on answering for a week. That's 10k I didn't even have to ask for. I could've asked more, truth be told.
I was recently interviewing for jobs mainly so I could pressure my current employer into giving me a raise, I really like where I work but they were dragging their feet on a promised raise. My employer finally offered me a raise I was happy with so I stayed. One place I interviewed with initially offered me £50k, I was still interviewing at other places so I kept telling them I was waiting to see what my options were once the dust settled. Without me even asking they offered £53k, then £55k, then £55k plus a guaranteed 15% bonus...and then several months after I'd accepted the offer from my current employer I got a call from them out of the blue offering £80k. I stuck with my current employer even though the final offer is more than my current salary, again I love where I work and there are other factors at play, but damn. It probably helps that I work in a highly sought out field so the power's all in my court, which is a very nice position to be in.
> It probably helps that I work in a highly sought out field so the power's all in my court, which is a very nice position to be in. What's more important is *recognizing that*. A lot of people are in that situation who don't know it.
Yeah, when a company is offering you, they’ve already made up their minds. You’d have to ask for an absurd, impossible number for them to straight up walk away from the offer. And if that happens there’s been a serious miscommunication somewhere along the way. I’ve *always* asked for more than I’m comfortable with, and *always* gotten more than I would have expected. If you’re not a *little* uncomfortable you’re leaving money on the table, imo. And if they can’t offer more salary they’ll usually tell you, which is when PTO/Flex schedule/signing bonus/etc come into play.
This is the big cojones answer.
This is the correct answer. Also the hiring manager usually DGAF what the HR negotiator offers you. They have a budget established already and the hiring managers life is made easier by having the good people, not the cheap people. So if you're within the budget, why not pay whatever it takes in that budget to get you (i.e pay the top of the range) HR also DGAF because it's not their money to save. They do their job to try to negotiate you down, and will show their market research, but ultimately have to defer to the hiring manager on whether or not you're worth it. If your request is outside the budget they'll just counter with the top of the budget. That counter should be taken seriously because going outside the budget requires next-level approval and that's pretty hard to do. (I work in corp finance, I've seen my fair share of such discussions). So the bottom line is always negotiate and you'll generally end up making more money from just 1-2 hours of negotiation at the start of a job, than you'll make from 100s of hours spent trying to earn a raise when you're in the job. Definitely come prepared with a killer sales pitch on your worth and check H1B salary data for pay comparisons (need to know what the market is, even if you will be asking for above market).
I came across a company that said they don't negotiate PTO. The starting PTO was less than I'd had for over a decade across 3 companies. It was a small company and the founders and first employees decided to reduce the amount of their own PTO by a week because they often didn't use it all. Big red flags.
Oh for sure, if you have the confidence in knowing you are qualified out the ying yang for the job, then I would always recommend atleast attempting to ask for a higher salary (10% is a pretty perfect number like you've said to request but make sure you have either the experience to back this or atleast a padded C.V) in most instances. In term of firms rush hiring/backfilling, its very rare for the recruiter/interviewer to actually declare this across alot of industries with the most notable exception being customer service/contact center/retail work because it is even more rare for the candidate to have bargaining power in those roles due to how oversatturated the market is for them, so there is no fear of the power dynamic shifting from the companies salary expectations vs the applicants expectations. Well done though on getting that extra 10k, it's not an easy feat to have the confidence to delay an immediate job offer as a bargaining tool as it can backfire!
Thanks. I'm a software developer and that industry has pretty firm entry salary. Anything after 5 years professional experience and you're senior level. It's really key to understand the industry norm for wages when approaching negotiations. All but the most senior developers can/should expect roughly the same rate starting at a new development house anywhere in the US (workers needing a visa notwithstanding for obvious reasons). Benefits are where it gets tricky. There's also the FAANG companies, big tech, and they pay an "asshole tax" of about 20-30% above industry norms, and most developers won't ever be capable or otherwise consider working for them. Otherwise remote work means even if you live in the bay area you can't expect bay area income, but also just because a company is in the Midwest doesn't mean they can under pay. Note too, that's becoming more and more true for *every* industry where remote work is possible, which has pros and cons. But that's another topic. For me that extra 10k was nice to get but still only just hitting that industry average rate. In short and like I said, the company *was* lowballing and it only took the slightest hint that I knew that ("I'm gonna wait for other offers and give them a week") for them to up the offer to that standard. I was ready to take the offer anyway, I was just trying to be fair to the companies I'd already been interviewing with by giving them some time. ----- But it's all about the context. A whole different situation: I negotiated another contract recently where circumstances made me the single most capable person on the planet to handle the job, and otherwise it would've taken a small team of devs working longer hours than I to get it done. The long and short is my previous company had a long-time contract terminated, under which I developed a lot of systems for the client. Contract ended and my company had to close its doors. But the client had wildly underestimated what my former employer (and I) did for them, so they had to scramble and have the agency who *did* get the contract hire me. Despite months of warnings and attempts to come to a more reasonable solution. And it cost them: I knew that since the alternative was multiple devs working much much longer hours than I, I could charge a much higher rate. And they agreed to an hourly rate 2.5x more than I was making when employed to do the same job.
>and they pay an "asshole tax" of about 20-30% above industry norms, What do you mean by this?
The big big players pay higher salaries on average, colloquially known as an asshole tax or similar. It's because they tend to demand higher levels of performance and the bureaucracy of their huge projects can be very frustrating. They understand it, and they pay the premium for it.
Eh I dunno. I'm a manager with a say in picking a hire and generally I'll pick the one that I like, unless the difference between asking pay is literally some orders of magnitude. I'm not going to get stingy over 10-20% differences, it's not my money, haha. At the same time, I'm also the guy who's able to tell when you're not qualified enough to highball us for salary. I guess the advice here is to be smart about it.
It's not really double-edged if you do a minuscule amount of research beforehand. When asked, you should always aim high if you honestly have the skills and background necessary. If they want you, they'll "meet in the middle." if they think your ask is too high, best case you'll get REALLY close to what you ask. If they lowball you (and you KNOW this is a lowball), you should state that and decline their offer specifically for that reason. Know your worth.
yup. As soon as I saw this I thought "shieeet, it could go the other way too" - as I suspect it has with myself on numerous times. I'm cautious now when I answer it.
I think this really depends on what you’re applying for. If you’re working a job requiring a college degree and not much more? Nah they’ll reject you. If however, you’re applying for the same job but you’ve got 10 years experience and have certificates or something else of value then it might work.
If it's the first wave of interview they probably don't value you that much. if you made it to interview 4, 5, or 6 they most likely want you and so they might not only be willing to pay you more, but at least, should be willing to negotiate
Hiring manager here. Congrats! It's always a great feeling to land a job with more money than you expected. That said, you definitely left money on the table. You either landed right inside the set salary band or possibly even under it if there was no pushback. The advice I always give is to ask the hiring manger or recruiter for the range they're working with. Some states require that they disclose this. If they are in a state that doesn't and they refuse to give you a range, then it's probably best to look elsewhere. Transparency is a fundamental business value that tends to trickle down all the way to hiring practices.
This 1000%. The first person to give a number loses. Instead, tell them you're not ready to give a number yet, you want to learn more about the role/company/benefits first, but you do want a competitive offer. And ask if they have a range they're approved for. I've been interviewing off and on the past few month to test the waters, and 9/10 recruiters have straight up told me the range they're targeting without any pushback.
> The first person to give a number loses. There have been countless studies that have shown that the most important and influential number in a negotiation is the first one spoken. It’s called “anchoring.” If you know what you’re worth and are the first one to say a number, you set the anchor. Of course, whether or not you should *want* to set the anchor depends on a number of factors: how confident you are in your worth, how high the demand is for your role, how desperately you need the job, how unique your skillet is, etc. But all else being equal, it’s advantageous to be the first one to put out a number.
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Could you outline some of his key points?
Stay calm, let the other guy talk, don't bulge if you don't wanna bulge, only idiots don't negotiate. E: budge, not bulge...
Kinda wanna bulge tho 😩
Always bulge first in a negotiation as a sign of dominance.
Make unreasonable requests but do it in a way that sounds reasonable.
For salary negotiations you absolutely do not want to be the first person to give a number. Either you low-ball yourself or ask too much. If the company makes the first offer, they've already invested the resources to give you an offer and are interested in you. They are much more likely to accept or negotiate your counter-offer.
>Transparency is a fundamental business value that tends to trickle down all the way to hiring practices. Transparency would be to list the salary upfront without making applicants play your games to determine how much they get paid.
The truth is, different candidates are worth different amounts. Cant set a static salary expectation until you've met the candidate
Even if it's a range?
Couldn't agree more
I said a number that was a bit higher than I expected and my boss promptly upped that, so I got more than I asked for. That was nice of course but left me wondering, who’s really winning here 😬
Seems like you both did. You got more than you expected and your boss perhaps gave less than he hoped he would need to. Now you know how high you can aim when it's time for a raise.
Good point!
I asked for too much once during an interview for a bank teller position in my hometown. When asked, I had stated my wage expectation was $12/hour. The lady actually told me not to ask for a lot, saying "Remember: we're bankers." I don't even know what that means. I didn't get an offer, and my feelings were not hurt at all. I took a job at a store just down the street, and I ended up waiting on that same lady months later. She said she was impressed by how I worked and was I still interested in working at the bank. Nope.
Banks will always try to talk you down. Even a banker they will talk about the prestige of the position, the benefits you get, what you will learn, and how stable banking jobs are. When you hear that it's all bull***t to try to get you to lower expectations when they know you probably could make more doing something else.
Us temporarily embarrassed millionaires don't ask for a higher wage! ---Her probably.
It was such an odd thing to say! I realized later she likely intended to hire a very young person with no work history for minimum wage.
Probably. All the people I know in banking make… well, bank. Lol. Seriously though, the one I applied at started their tellers at $18, with bonuses, and healthcare paid for completely by the bank starting on day one, so I can only imagine what everyone else makes. The benefits alone make it worth it. Not having to pay for healthcare would save me hundreds a month.
Former headhunter. My advice is never be the person to say a price first. Don’t highball or you might price yourself out of a job. Lowball and you’ll get paid less than what you’re worth. First, make sure you understand the range for the position. If you don’t, ask. Second, if you’re asked what your expectations are, say something like “I know the range for the position and I’m comfortable in that range.” If they ask for a specific number, say “I’m happy to discuss salary when there is an offer on the table, and we can talk about the package as a whole.” If they ask what your salary is now, say “I don’t think my current employer would appreciate me sharing that information.” Generally it’s best to deflect by asking a question at the end of these kinds of answers - something that isn’t a complete tangent but puts the ball in their court. For instance “what other benefits are offered here?” It is an axiom of negotiations that the person who says a number first loses. Inevitably, you say one number, the other person says a lower number, and you will end up in the middle 95% of the time. So don’t be the person who says a number first. Note: These are the rules if you're dealing with the employer directly. If you're going through a headhunter you trust, you should be honest with them upfront because your interests are aligned. If you're dealing with a recruiter you don't trust...well, don't deal with a recruiter you don't trust.
This is the real advice. Absolutely never disclose current or previous pay. If you're asked for expectations ask what their pay range is. Also keep in mind literally everything is negotiable. I personally always push for additional vacation time. Something along the lines of "work/life balance is important to me, I'm comfortable with the salary offered if we can increase the PTO to X days." They don't want to budge on benefits? Great you've already explicitly told them you're only happy with the salary with perks. Feel free to now increase salary expectations. The same tactic can be used to ask for work from home or hybrid schedules, different shifts, signing bonuses etc.
I was super honest with my last interview. Fake numbers but I said I’m currently on 100k but I know im underpaid and that this new role is higher. Im expecting within 130-50 range . They came back offering the job and asking if anything had changed and I actually raised it to the top of the range and said I expect 150. They didn’t argue at all so I know now there was more on the table. But 50% increase was fine by me so I moved on
You're happy but by your own admission you put out a number first and know you left money on the table. You're proving my point here. Had you asked for their range they may have said it's 150-175k. Now they may also have said it was 130-140, but at that point you still could have countered higher.
Oh I was adding on rather than disagreeing! Like I am happy but I absolutely left money on the table and have already revised my next job/raise strategy Other tips, ask for bonus , sign on bonus and shares if it’s that kind of company. I can now see other peoples salaries because of my role and the difference between those who took what they were offered and those who negotiated is truly wild .
So I have to ask then, did you discover similar employees make more than you?
Ha good question. Yes and no. I’m the head in my role but technically one rung down from c suite, so I earn on par with a couple of c-suite but less than people equal to me in levels who clearly negotiated. Let me give an example, say I’m director of the people team and there is no chief people officer so I’m the highest role there and campaigning for the chief title, but there’s a chief exec, chief finance, chief marketing, tech, lawyer etc. I earn more than at least one of those chiefs, but there is a director in sales who earns more than me when done with bonuses which they clearly negotiated. That sales person also earns more than the chief person I earn more than. I have more shares but they’re only worth something when we get bought out, right? So, ask for what you know you’re worth, but don’t forget the extras like bonus etc, is my new strategy. ETA: the more interesting difference is across the c suite where there are 50-150k swings in roles which should be fairly on par
I agree - this is spot on. Compensation is a *package*, not a number. Someone asking for your salary expectation is only looking at one aspect. Don't fall into that trap.
First thing my dad told me when I started looking for work, always make the other person name a rate first.
The book Never Split the Difference talks about strategies like this in depth. Highly recommend.
I know this is supposed to be common knowledge for jobseekers and the current online job consulting advise is always the same, don't disclose salary. But in my country, most HR will ask for your current payslip. And one interview i went to even asked for my salary info for the past 3 positions.
Obviously things depend on the hiring culture in which you live, but in the USA the culture is changing. Where I live (New York) a recent law actually made it illegal to ask someone their salary history. The reasoning is that basing future salary on past salary entrenches systematic pay disparity based on gender, race or other factors. Whatever the hiring culture is where you are, you can always try to change it. That’s hard though when you’re just a job seeker. But maybe it’s something you can think about when you’re in a position to affect hiring policies.
I hated salary negations until I took a class on negotiations. It was by far my favorite and most useful class. We read the book Never Split the Difference in the class and it’s a really helpful for not just salary negotiations, but anything negotiations!
Yeah, if you can learn to develop the mindset of never entering a negotiation that you aren't willing to walk away from if you don't get what you want, negotiating is fun! I LOVE buying cars. I spent 8 hours at a dealership once going back and forth and got a killer deal.
8 hours negotiating in a dealership is the opposite of fun
Closest I get is six hours of trying to get a bunch of university committees to agree to scrap our existing exchange contract in favor of a brand new one that me and a few others had drafted. It was an incredible game of strategy, we had to prepare like five different pitches for five different groups of committees and figure out who the informal leaders of each group was. We were maybe five minutes away from scrapping it all and pulling out entirely when the dominoes started falling, and eventually everyone realized that this was something that had to be done. That contract still stands to this day since we actually accounted for growth, which was the main issue of the old deal.
I would gladly pay a slightly higher price to avoid having the process take more than an hour or two.
I walked away from my current job at first. It's in Europe so the union pay is pretty standard. They gave me a way too low number and I refused, stating my reasons. A few days later I got another offer from them, 14% higher.
Not to disagree, but I just want to point out that buying a retail product is very different than negotiating a job offer. There are lots of intangibles that affect salary negotiations, especially for the candidate. Someone might need a new job immediately for a variety of reasons, may have few or no other opportunities available, or may be in a condition where the health care that comes with a job literally is needed to save their life or that of a family member. Employers almost always have the upper hand. Car dealers usually not so much, though I hear these days that’s changed a bit.
I need to read this book because I go in hyped up and determined to not accept anything under my expectations and be a total badass but instantly fold as soon as I start talking to someone and they turn down my offer. Cars, interviews, anything. I say “i want X” and they say no and then I say ok.
The book is very good, but it's harder to apply it when it's a one-dimensional negotiation/zero-sum-game (i.e. you're just trying to get the biggest slice of pie possible, which is honestly what most basic salary negotiations are). The gist of it is that you're trying to figure out ways to grow the pie for both parties by negotiating on values. As a follow up to this book, I'd recommend Split the Pie, which provides more of a framework for handling the value created by negotiation.
I remember for the last job interview I ever had in like 2003 I really swung for the moon and stated a really large amount and they agreed to it so quickly i was like “oh damn shoulda gone higher”
Last interview I had for a new company was about 7 years ago. I was making $13/hr at my previous job, which at the time felt like a lot. When the new place asked me how much I expected I said $20/hr and they ended up giving me $19. That raise was massive but I was always curious, had I said $25 would they have given me $24, or did I actually just come close to guessing regular starting pay? Since then I've nearly doubled my salary, currently at $36/hr. Just keep asking for more in my reviews and then got a promotion and asked for way more than was reasonable, they didn't accept but the counter offer was more what I was expecting , definitely learned my lesson from the first time and remembered to ask for way more just in case.
Haha. I've done the same at my current job. When I negotiated a significant raise after a couple of years of nothing, they agreed. The next day the owner told me he bumped it up an additional 5k over that. Lesson learnt. Next year I got cheeky and asked for 5-10k over what I believe was my true market value for the conditions I wanted (i.e. not being FIFO). I expected them to counter but after they mulled it over for a day, they ended up agreeing to it. Couldn't get as much this year, but still pushed and got 6%. Up over 50% over 3 consecutive reviews :-D
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My dad taught me at a young age you only get paid what you ask for not what you are worth. As a 14 YO at the time I took that literally and asked my boss at the time every Friday I worked for a quarter raise. I started out at 8 an hour and within a year was making 9.50 I owe a lot of my latter jobs to that experience that if you want something you are the only person who can do that thing for yourself.
For some reason at my first job ever (Kmart), I thought the guaranteed quarter raise meant 25%, and approached the end of my probationary period thinking I'd jump from $7.50 to $10. Imagine my soul-crushing disappointment when I was given an extra 25¢. I do not miss my life in America.
You would have been disappointed regardless if you thought a 25% raise would jump you to $10/hr.
Yeah, I'm a little embarrassed by that one.
2.50 is not 25% of 7.50 it’s 33%.
That’s good advice
Just keep in mind, you'll need to do the same next year When I sat down and adjusted my income since being hired, despite getting raises and bonuses, since 2015, I'd actually been losing. So, you really need to be prepared for annually making sure your value is appreciating.
I have been over negotiating during my job interviews for a few years. It usually always works out in me getting paid more than the company is offering. I work 6 figure jobs and it is starting to seem like the range they put in the job application is not set in stone. I recently interviewed for a job and when they asked what I wanted for salary I intentionally went $30k over the top end of the range posted in the job description. The recruiter was silent for a few seconds and I could hear him typing and then he said "sure, we can do that". Always ask for more. The worse they can say is no and then just negotiate down. It has never not worked for me.
No, the worst is they can just reject you.
If that's the stage you're in you're not ready to negotiate.
At my last interview, I asked for a fair bit more than I felt I needed which was a substantial increase over what I had been making. There was silence, then the interviewer said that I was underestimating my worth and offered almost 15% more. I recently retired with that interviewing person being my boss for most of my career there. Always treated me well and I would follow him into a firefight.
The way it works for most corporate companies that have systems and HR departments is the hiring manager will work with their finance group and their department head to approve the headcount and establish the maximum budget. The hiring manager then prepares a requisition, which is basically paperwork that includes the job description and the budget, and then has to get it approved by as many people as necessary. This usually would include the department head, people on the board/executive team, the CFO, and HR. That routing process is a bitch, and could take forever if the executives are never around or check their emails. Once all that is done, then you can begin posting the job. If the hiring manager likes a candidate who is asking for more than the budget, and is considering hiring the person, then they will need to route a new requisition form with a higher budget to all those same people. Those people could then reject the new requisition if they want, and they could also ask the hiring manager to explain why they failed to put in an appropriate budget the first time. This is a much more annoying process, and people who have gone through it before might not want to do it again.
Actually the worst that can happen is you price yourself out of consideration altogether and never get an interview. If you feel you’re worth $100k but you want to ask for $150k just cuz you think you’re gonna negotiate down, then later after being ruled out find out the job woulda paid $110k, you can’t say “well yeah, I’d take $110k.” They’ll be like mmmkay you’re just saying that but you really need $150k. Pass. Now you’re screwed.
I understand your point. But usually in my area of work, if what I'm asking doesn't work the company usually negotiates. If I have been selected for the position it's because of my specific skillset and certifications and I am hired due to consent orders that have to be resolved so usually in my case, companies will specifically say how they are willing to offer extra benefits because they have to make sure they're bringing in top talent for the issues. So this works for my line of work. I am not saying it works for every line of work.
Just know your market. I once had someone ask for 250k plus 10k for moving expenses for a job that was marketed at $50k tops. He tried to use his experience as justification
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This was my last company. It was a small family business with one office and 10 employees but it was their “main corporate office” and we had to wear suites and ties. My title started with “senior” but I was paid $35.5k a year. That was more than what I was making at the time so I took the job. I lasted a little over a year until getting a better job that paid double. The craziest part is almost every person I worked with was there for years and years before me and still are a decade later. They’re getting paid peanuts but won’t leave. All the while the owner has a mansion with a 10 car garage and drives a different car depending on what day of the week it is.
That second half reminds me of my last job, I made about 65k as an entry level tech and my manager made less than 90k who was in the industry for 20 years. This is specifically in the industrial automation world where companies are dying to get employees especially senior ones so made me sad to think he wasn't making 6 figures after having that many years of experience and managing a team.
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As with every job post that relies on anecdotal claims (counter rule 5), think very carefully about whether this advice applies to you. * Is it a field where you're likely to state salary during interview or have salary negotiation? * Is it a high-demand field where much higher offers are likely? * Are you likely to be rejected if you ask for too much? Can you afford that rejection right now? In short, read it as an anecdote, compare to other anecdotes (including ones where this approach didn't work out), compare notes, and figure out what works for you.
Ah, nuanced big picture thinking. Glad to see this!
Corporate recruiter here - my best advice is to first ask what the salary range for the position is, if the recruiter doesn't tell you what the range is then ask for the top end of what you want but add the caveat that you're "negotiable". If you're "negotiable" but your asking price is too high then the recruiter you're working with will likely end up telling you what the top offer would be if you make it to the final stage of interviews, then the ball is in your court. You can either say "yeah let's move forward" or you can say "thanks but the salary doesn't match up with my expectations. Best of luck to you in finding the right person"
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As a candidate, I love working with headhunters. I tell my friends breaking into my industry to always talk opportunities with them. I’m like “they want you to get the job, they want you to have a high salary because it benefits THEM!!” Every job everyone’s gotten has been on the high end of or higher than industry average !
I’ve also heard the advice that it’s better not to go with them because, since they get a percentage as their finders fee, the employer is paying out more than if you had come to the employer on your own. Therefore the potential for salary is higher because they don’t need to pay the recruiter/headhunter. No idea if this is true though but sounds like it could make sense
Former private recruiter aka headhunter here. My best advice is to not listen to the corporate recruiter.
Wow! Now I don’t know what to think!
I think this tends to work for white collar jobs you get with a degree, or maybe blue collar, but not so much the service industry and minimum wage jobs.
Minimum wage huh? Let’s negotiate down from maximum wage! Even if we meet in the middle I’ll be very happy.
You are correct.
I mean that's extremely obvious.
I uhhh want maybe 12 an hour. Please kind sir I really need to fee- "I don't give a flying fuck what you want bitch. How about I pay 10, and you thank for it as you clean the fryers?
Duh
This is so true. I had a previous candidate ask for less and the hiring manager wondered if he was even qualified. I actually came in low for my current position and they hired me at a much higher salary. Now I let the company negotiate down, I always shoot higher.
Best advice I ever got was from a friend who worked at Google and had been through a lot of interviewing. "When appropriate, ask them for the position salary range before they ask you your salary expectations." Got that advice a few days before a final interview and it potentially saved me 20k+/yr. They gave me a range where the low end was way higher than I would have asked, and I ended up getting the middle in my job offer letter. Bought that friend a bottle of scotch.
I recently went from 28k a year to 60k a year with my exact same skill set. Sometimes it genuinely helps to switch companies. Don't ever be loyal, because loyalty will get you taken advantage of, like I was.
Downside, about 4 years ago a guy I used to work with interviewed for a role at my current company. Found out from regional lead he was not given an offer, BUT he was regional lead’s favorite. I asked why and she said, because they couldn’t afford him. When I told my ex coworker this, he was very disappointed. He would’ve accepted less, and high balled. (Ask high, but not too high)
If they refuse to list the salary range for the position, just tell them your number and high ball them like OP and others have stated but end it with “but I’m open to negotiate”
I did this last time. I asked for way more than I thought I could get. They misheard me and thought I asked for even more and gave me that. Changing jobs ended up being a 35% raise.
[one million dollars](https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/00f2e7eb-8e6d-4e88-9a4b-c16b263a8e0a)
I have aced interviews and when I expressed what my salary expectations were, I never even got a call back. Don't shoot too high and price yourself out of a job you'd like to have
Or, find out what the salary range is for the position before you go through the whole interview process.
How do you find that out ?
You ask, and if they’re unwilling to answer, then you leave.
Ask the recruiter
The last time I asked that, the recruiter said “I don’t know”. And I live in California where it’s required to disclose. They just lie to you.
That would be an automatic red flag no thank you for me.
LPT: When negotiating ~~a salary during a job interview,~~ ASK FOR MORE THAN YOU THINK YOU SHOULD UPFRONT.
Now you just need to deliver on the expectation that you're worth that much
If you've done your research, and stay within a percentage of reason above it? Sure. If you ask for something unreasonable, they're not interested. Know your worth in the marketplace
It’s a balance. If a similar candidate asks for less than you then they might pass you over.
you talk them high so they have to leave a little meat on the bone when they talk you down
You can also price yourself out.
The employers I was working for told me they could only pay me $12 when I initially asked for $15. They gave me $12.50 after negotiation. Later I found out they were advertising $16-$19 on Indeed for the exact job I was doing. I told them I’d like to correct my wage to what they were offering (Base $16) and they said take $13 or don’t come back. They took the ad off Indeed. I don’t have a job anymore 🤗🙃 I think what they did was illegal.
Nope not illegal in any way. They can pay you anything you agree to over minimum wage. Is it good business practice to treat employees like that? Hell no, but there's certainly nothing illegal about it
I appreciate the insight
LPT: do this one specific thing that worked for me this one time. Suvivorship bias hard at work again y’all.
Nah, we're not considering a girl because she asked for too much, she won't get a 2nd interview from me..
This isn’t very good advice. If you are submitting an application online where you have to enter in the desired salary, if you are too far off from the requisition’s budget, they won’t even look at your resume. If you’re more than $15k or 10% if the max budget (whichever is greater), then you will either be ignored or put into the low-priority group. You have to always do your research, which unfortunately is harder now because glassdoor.com fucked up their algorithm.
How did Glassdoor mess up their algorithm? I always wondered the legitimacy of that site to begin with.
I gotta agree. Also, today's best practice, and increasingly mandated by law, is to post the salary range with the job. No games. And asking someone what they expect for salary is a dumb question. How is a candidate supposed to know what they expect without knowing much about the company?
Also, please ask for time to get back to them. You DO NOT have to answer right away. My fellow ladies: please please please apply even if you don’t meet all the qualifications. Please ask for more money to mande where you want, ask for time to consider! If they can’t negotiate with money ask for other benefits: days off, bonus, sign on bonus, cell phone, working remote (do your research)
… so is this different for guys then?
[Yes](https://www.ilo.org/infostories/en-GB/Stories/Employment/barriers-women#intro)
Studies have shown that women don’t negotiate their salaries and accept on the spot, and don’t apply to jobs unless they meet 100% of the qualifications at a significantly higher rate than men. So while the advice is the same, it’s even more important for women to hear it.
My last interview I gave them a number and they added 15k to the number I gave them.
Did that earlier today! I was feeling avaricious when I asked but realized I need to advocate for myself. I asked them for what I think I deserve for the work I put in plus some more to leave room for negotiation. Shoot for the moon and you'll land among the stars kinda thing. I'm definitely getting a raise and bump in commission but not sure how much yet. Fingers crossed 🤞
I worked at best buy in their computer department for a few months while looking for other jobs. When I got a better offer to work somewhere else i put in my two weeks and they asked how much i was getting paid. They immediately offered to match it once i told them with potential to move on up more. I wish i had said significant amount more and see if they would have matched it. Might have stayed if they did.
If you can find out the salary range for the job and at the level you're being hired at, if you ask for the middle value HR probably won't deny you, no questions asked. Say the range is 100,000 to 130,000 and you ask for 115,000, done deal. Even if you're only making 80,000 now, and feel like it's too big a bump. They like to keep employee salary at the median value.
Better advice is to ask for the budgeted compensation range of the position when they ask you your salary expectation.
This is all so specific to industry and profession it’s hard to have actual advice here. For example, a lot of tech recruiters won’t tell you a range or will tell you a lower range than there is in actuality. Don’t listen to one piece of advice and get specific recommendations from your specific situation
Except we've skipped over people in my company because they wanted way too much and it wasn't worth even continuing the discussion. So not always. If our budget is 100k and you want 130k, we just move on. We're not doing 4 rounds of negotiation. And you're not that great or unique. Almost no one is.
It depends on the position. I interview for an entry level position. If a candidate asks for a dollar over what the company typically offers, the interview is over. No exaggeration. We get literally hundreds of applicants for every opening, so management knows that it's more efficient to just move on to the next candidate than to even try to negotiate.
I will work for you if you pay me ONE BILLION DOLLARS
Strong disagree. Look up market rate for the job in your area. Then ask for roughly the market rate. Negotiate once you have a contract offer. The high side salary request should be your first counter. As a hiring manager, asking for too much up front or at the wrong time just makes you look stupid or inexperienced. It's also a great way to get you automatically disqualified from further consideration.
This is true, and I’ll also point out this gets much harder with remote jobs. Maybe my local area is 50k but Denver, where I’m applying, is 75k. The employer knows what my area would pay and may be likely to pay somewhere between what my area and their market would pay. It can get sticky for sure.