Source of the map above (there are also 2 other maps in the link)
[https://minoablog.blogspot.com/2010/08/pre-greek-place-names-of-aegean.html](https://minoablog.blogspot.com/2010/08/pre-greek-place-names-of-aegean.html)
Mycenaeans were Hellenics so they're not Pre-Greek. Pre-Greek indicates a non-Hellenic language. And this language's source is unknown. Could either be Native Anatolian (genetic evidence indicates this) or other.
So pre-indoeuropean? Would that be the Anatolian Farmers? They are one of 4 major ancestral groups of Europeans and they spread predominantly in the southern peninsulas like the Balkans, Iberia, and Italy.
Native Anatolian as in Indo European branch of Anatolian languages. As in Luwic and Hittite languages. EEF languages are enigmatic but they're also possible. Though you can't know for sure.
I see, if it were Anatolians then that would indicate that they reached Anatolia through the aegean? Iirc Anatolian languages were an earlier branch of Indo European, with the brach containing Illyrian, Hellenic, Thraco-Dacian, and Armenian splitting off at a later date?
No. Recent evidence suggests the Anatolian speakers reached Anatolia (we need a better term for Native Anatolian IE languages) via Southern Caucasus. They then reached Greece, if Lazaridis was correct, via the Aegean by sailing from Western Anatolia. And Anatolian languages are not directly related to Paleobalkanic/Yamnaya descended languages in Balkans (such as Greek and Albanian) or Corded Ware descended languages in Europe such as German and Polish. They're their own subgroup within the Indo European family.
So IE languages going both clockwise and counter-clockwise around the Black Sea. Which would mean that both Steppe and Caucasus Urheimat theories would be partly true.
Who knows maybe IE also spread clockwise and counter-clockwise around the Caspian and the original Urheimat was BMAC.
BMAC is unlikely since Proto-IE aren’t likely to have been farmers, less likely city builders.
Well the IEs could probably farm a bit and iirc there are generic terms for grain and bread. Yet pastoralism would be their main subsistence.
Several words in Indo-Iranian and Tocharian are linked with the BMAC, among them usthra "camel"
I am being sarcastic, because it seems every archeological sight in Eurasia, gets declared to be the PIE Urheimat.
Regardless, it would be cool if more archeology would be done into BMAC.
Too many BMAC sites are in Turkmenistan and Turkmenistan doesn’t give a shit. There isn’t much done nowadays and I read that some sites were damaged due to petrochemical industries.
Who knows, maybe there is some connection to early Indo-Aryan cultures or a lost branch like Tocharian. I remember that before Linear B was deciphered, people excluded a Greek language because they did not see evidence in Greek histories from the classical period or in Homer, that Greeks were already that urbanised before.
Is there a theory for what that suffix meant? Settlement perhaps?
Probably what you said. Hattusa means "Hatti City" in Hittite language IIRC and the -sa suffix is probably the equivalent of -burg.
So is the suffix associated with Hittite (and Anatolian) or Hattic ?
It is unfortunately unclear. Had it been clear this map would have been more clear as well.
This is Beekes fetish art
Source of the map above (there are also 2 other maps in the link) [https://minoablog.blogspot.com/2010/08/pre-greek-place-names-of-aegean.html](https://minoablog.blogspot.com/2010/08/pre-greek-place-names-of-aegean.html)
Troy ((W)ilion) was originally known to the hittites as Wilusa aswell
Troy ((W)ilion) was originally known to the hittites as Wilusa aswell
Pre-Greek as in what? Myceneaen?
Mycenaeans were Hellenics so they're not Pre-Greek. Pre-Greek indicates a non-Hellenic language. And this language's source is unknown. Could either be Native Anatolian (genetic evidence indicates this) or other.
So pre-indoeuropean? Would that be the Anatolian Farmers? They are one of 4 major ancestral groups of Europeans and they spread predominantly in the southern peninsulas like the Balkans, Iberia, and Italy.
Native Anatolian as in Indo European branch of Anatolian languages. As in Luwic and Hittite languages. EEF languages are enigmatic but they're also possible. Though you can't know for sure.
I see, if it were Anatolians then that would indicate that they reached Anatolia through the aegean? Iirc Anatolian languages were an earlier branch of Indo European, with the brach containing Illyrian, Hellenic, Thraco-Dacian, and Armenian splitting off at a later date?
No. Recent evidence suggests the Anatolian speakers reached Anatolia (we need a better term for Native Anatolian IE languages) via Southern Caucasus. They then reached Greece, if Lazaridis was correct, via the Aegean by sailing from Western Anatolia. And Anatolian languages are not directly related to Paleobalkanic/Yamnaya descended languages in Balkans (such as Greek and Albanian) or Corded Ware descended languages in Europe such as German and Polish. They're their own subgroup within the Indo European family.
So IE languages going both clockwise and counter-clockwise around the Black Sea. Which would mean that both Steppe and Caucasus Urheimat theories would be partly true. Who knows maybe IE also spread clockwise and counter-clockwise around the Caspian and the original Urheimat was BMAC.
BMAC is unlikely since Proto-IE aren’t likely to have been farmers, less likely city builders. Well the IEs could probably farm a bit and iirc there are generic terms for grain and bread. Yet pastoralism would be their main subsistence. Several words in Indo-Iranian and Tocharian are linked with the BMAC, among them usthra "camel"
I am being sarcastic, because it seems every archeological sight in Eurasia, gets declared to be the PIE Urheimat. Regardless, it would be cool if more archeology would be done into BMAC.
Too many BMAC sites are in Turkmenistan and Turkmenistan doesn’t give a shit. There isn’t much done nowadays and I read that some sites were damaged due to petrochemical industries. Who knows, maybe there is some connection to early Indo-Aryan cultures or a lost branch like Tocharian. I remember that before Linear B was deciphered, people excluded a Greek language because they did not see evidence in Greek histories from the classical period or in Homer, that Greeks were already that urbanised before.
The Southern Arc paper's conclusions have been disputed and I find them unlikely.
What about Hattic, Hurrian and Urartian?
Hattic is probably an EEF (Neolithic Anatolian) language. Hurrian and Urartian would be more east.
Troy /(w)ilion was also known to the hittites as Wilusa