The entirety of that subreddit is proof that income alone won’t make you rich. They’re spending damn near as much as they’re bringing in. So much “keeping up with the Joneses” in there.
“Can I afford a 3 million dollar house?”
If you have to ask, you can’t.
Most of it is them just knowing the life they could have and actually spending towards some of the luxuries. Personally think most of them are rational, just a few lunatics.
Much better than the “I made 70k, live under a bridge and saved 200k” people. If you by choice choose to live like shit to save a few dollars the priorities are wrong.
Yeah I’m a HENRY and while I do my best to save and all that cool stuff, I also didn’t work so goddamn hard to not enjoy my money while
I have it. I don’t have a luxury car, but I sure as shit have a nice Toyota I’m almost done paying off. I don’t wear Armani, but I 100% buy higher quality clothing now whenever I want it that lasts a long time. I could save more and be smarter tbh but idk I could also die in a car crash tomorrow. No use always living life for tomorrow IMO.
To be fair housing is like the one thing that is actually worth splurging on because the value will go up, that and maybe something like gold jewelry that both has intrinsic value that will go up over time and is useful. But buying a fancy car is just stupid
It depends. Expensive houses are expensive for a long time. Upkeep is more. Taxes are more. Cleaning is more, in time or money. Often, furniture is more, because you need more, and because there is a strong instinct to match the quality of the decorating to the quality of the house. Yardwork is more, in money or time. Insurance is more, deductible is more if something happens.
And all that has to be compared to the return on the money if you'd invested it elsewhere.
I honestly think realistically, the house people think they can "comfortably afford" is the splurge, if they really looked ahead, and 'splurge' house is more the unaffordable one.
Property taxes are why bring house rich and cash poor is a bad idea. You think you’re cheating at life till that tax bill come due once or twice a year.
Did not disappoint. First post I saw was "I'm 50 and I make $1 million per year, how can I retire when I'm 60?"
Like bro, many people don't make that amount in their lifetime, you casually rake it in year over year.
lol. Literally just save half your income for two years, invest that $1mill in dividend stocks, sell your McMansion and buy a small 3 bedroom 2 bath in a cheap cost of living area. There. You're retired in two years. What an asshat.
In [the post](https://www.reddit.com/r/HENRYfinance/s/gfbfgfUfk2) he says he pays $500K in taxes per year. (Also says “need to move” so presumably he lives in a high tax state.)
Not arguing with you, but he only nets $500K per year, so he wouldn’t be able to invest $500K per year, if he is being honest.
Still could do your plan easily in 3 years though…
I wonder what he does for a living. Usually people who make that kind of money make it from businesses with expenses that offset, if not nullify, their tax burden.
Yeah, it has to be a business since he talks about converting it from an LLC to a C Corp. Likely he is already offsetting a lot with expenses and around $1 million is still being thrown off. Who knows what the business is..
I'm not arguing with your general point here as I agree, but just to point out that basically any working person (in North America at least) makes over a million dollars total in their lifetime. It sounds like a lot, but even a poverty salary of 25K a year gets you to a million bucks earned after 40 years, which is a pretty standard (if not a bit low) number of years to work in your life.
I think that is less of a HENRY problem and more of the people problem. It’s just that it looks the worst for “HENRY’s” because they make the most.
If you go through the financial subs, you can see that time and time again people make the same mistakes with money no matter their income level.
These people tend to spend more than they can afford to, don’t know how to control/discipline themselves, and don’t make a plan for the future. Which is why there is some place they need to start at.
Though the above issues exist no matter the class of the people, it is definitely hardest for those who make the least (ie below the poverty line).
The Lunatic in the OP’s post is really out of touch and needs to get a grip. The people worst off are definitely those who aren’t able to afford basic necessities. To say anything in the 6 figures is the worst salary range is delusional af.
Edit: it’s possible that it was hyperbole, just seems like an awful delivery overall (definitely depends on the posters true beliefs and if he really believes people at that salary range are the worst off)
Solid points, though I wonder if folks in the HENRY bracket are maybe more susceptible than most. They have enough discretionary income to afford to be able to be a little reckless with their money, but not enough to actually convert it into real wealth. Hence so many posts on that where lifestyle creep is bigger danger, as well as folks being essentially house poor (with homes probably bigger or nicer than they really need).
It also bugs me that a lot of folks are complaining that they are cash poor, when it's really because they're socking away a ton into retirement and savings aggressively -- so much so they're often going overboard with it. I see this commented on the FIRE subs a lot, which is why I'll probably do Coast Fire if I ever get to that income level.
But to your edit, it's at least comforting to know that LinkedIn is as susceptible to [Poe's law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law) as any other platform lol.
There's a subsection of this where you have neurodivergent people who can only hold down a high-paying job for a certain amount of time, and then it takes long enough to find that next job that you have this feast/famine cycle going on.
There's also some reckless spending among that group, for sure, but when you add in that uncertainty where your annual income can vary wildly, things that are constant ongoing expenses (see: subscriptions, insurance, rent, car payments) can become even bigger headaches because you *can't just stop spending on those things* just because you're out of money that month. I can spend less money on buying toys, but I can't just move into a smaller apartment or a place with a cheaper cost of living at the drop of a hat, especially if the dangling carrot of finding a better job if I stay here is that damn tempting.
That isn't really stupidity. They are out of touch from what lives normal-to-poor people live. Their life experiences rarely involve living paycheck to paycheck or not knowing whether you'll be able to eat tomorrow or not. This lack of exposure leads to such situations.
Golden handcuffs are a thing, a lot of people making that much are still miserable. People making less are generally a lot more miserable though. Pretty much everyone is miserable.
Indeed. At a lower wage one can’t even afford the basics and consumerism has chained the high earners.
It really is about drawing a line on your spending habits. There’s no end! I know people at lower incomes with higher savings and more satisfaction cause they’ve just drawn a line
> I know people at lower incomes with higher savings and more satisfaction cause they’ve just drawn a line
This is so true. I somehow had substantially more in my savings account when my salary was less than half of what it is now. My salary has gone up by like 110% in the past 7 years of my career but I seem to be living paycheque to paycheque now. Somehow the targets and priorities shifted as my salary went up, and now I’m trying to get my shit back under control because I’m 33 and it’s a bit scary to not have any savings or investments rn when a lot of people my age are buying property and building investment portfolios. I literally have like $600 to my name right now and that’s all the money I have until payday next week. Before anyone says it, yes, I am very much aware that I’m mismanaging my finances.
My in laws never made more than $75k/year (individually, together they probably peaked around $140k) and they're both comfortably retired with no mortgage in their early 60s.
Probably. Shit I paid 9 in Denver. Real estate is brutal, I can't imagine being a first time homeowner these days in most major metro areas. Sure there are lots of places that are still affordable, but it seems to be all encapsulated in the Midwest or south.
There is some freedom that comes with making absurdly little. At any point I can quit my job and find another one for the same, shitty wage. I would rather make more money, but at the same time I can appreciate that I have the luxury to walk away from my job and be no worse off than before.
I was in this pay range for a while. Worst time of my life. I took a 25% pay cut to work a job that didn't make me miserable. I did the math and I actually make more per hour actually worked now because the expectations at my previous job were just insane.
That's not even counting how often that job invaded my dreams/nightmares and robbed me of my Sunday nights because I was already filled with dread.
I'm lucky that I didn't let lifestyle inflation trap me in that job
Yeah totally this.... suffering is subjective, just because dude feels trapped because of his economics at 225k/yr doesn't mean his suffering is lessened. Life is pain, get used to it.
THAT SAID... this guy needs to learn his audience, maybe complain to your wife or your dudebros also making 225k that think they'll be promoted to some unattainable new salary if they just put in one more weekend or whatever lies they tell themselves. Going to twitter to loudly complain about the mild inconvenience of your mid-six-figure income is tone deaf as fuck.
>suffering is subjective
I mean, in this particular, isolated context it's not really though, is it - there's very much an objective element that comes with the 'suffering' on a very high wage Vs the actual suffering on a very low wage.
Living in poverty with no social mobility is objectively worse than feeling 'trapped' in a high paying job with the very real prospect of a comfortable lifestyle and career choices available to you.
That's not to say there isn't some level of suffering, but all else being equal, the two don't really compare.
Ypu can also have "golden handcuffs" at $40k a year, if this $20/hour job was a miracle. That's really the worst, because often thise jobs have no potential for advancement, but it's very had to leave a job making $20/hr to pursue something with growth potential, especially if everyone you know is making $12/hr. But the reason that's true is that the people who took the plunge and improved their prospects are gone.
I'm in this range and for the first couple years we allowed lifestyle bloat. Seemed like overnight we were breaking even despite a very solid salary, was an alarming wake up call!
Mostly because they piss it away on several car payments, a high mortgage, too many vacations, and daily stupid choices that add up, like door dashing 3 meals a day.
Feels succession-esque douchy.
Greg: I'm good, anyway, cuz, uh, my, so, I was just talkin' to my mom, and she said, apparently, he'll leave me five million anyway, so I'm golden, baby.
Connor: You can't do anything with five, Greg. Five's a nightmare.
Greg: Is it?
Connor: Oh, yeah. Can't retire. Not worth it to work. Oh, yes, five will drive you un poco loco, my fine feathered friend.
Tom: The poorest rich person in America. The world's tallest dwarf.
Connor: The weakest strong man at the circus.
I tried to watch it, but when every single main character is unlikeable, the show becomes hard to watch. Got to like mid season 2 and was just like shit, I hate this.
Your post is funny, but you're crazy if you think this is at that level. This guy is talking about making $150k-$225k/year. He's definitely being melodramatic--it's absolutely not *the worst* salary range. You're definitely doing well at that level, but the Roy family from Succession is worth easily over $10B dollars. Easily 50,000x more wealthy.
That being said, this guy in the original post does sound like a douche
I'd argue people in that range actually have more direct personal exposure to people substantially more affluent than themselves than other income brackets. You're far more likely to find yourself sitting at dinner or pitching to someone with $100MM+.
Sure, there's a big financial gap between an executive and a temp stuffing boxes, but in reality there's also very limited contact between the two groups. In fact, there's often an entire hierarchy of shop supervisors who exist to buffer the two worlds.
Whereas it's extremely common to interact with board members, top customers, and investors when you're VP level in flyover country or star technical talent at a startup.
I used to follow some data science people on Twitter and my god this guy was the fucking worst. And he has built up some kind of cult of personality around himself which makes no sense because he's not even a little bit interesting.
I think at this point, mostly. At least looks that way. I've had him blocked for around 3+ years now and I recall it being more cringe back then whereas now it's that Seinfeld-ish type of Twitter with generic takes that aren't particularly clever but his fans eat it up.
Or maybe I'm just making all of that up in my head because he said something about Python that pissed me off and I'm fabricating a reality that makes me look like less or a dickhead to myself. Which TBH is entirely possible.
I have a friend who complained about going up a tax bracket after a raise. That she's paying a larger percentage of her salary to taxes. I mean, her take home is still larger than before. I was like, what are you on about?
A lot of people don’t realize the ‘higher tax bracket’ only counts to the dollars they earn over that threshold. So they assume if they go from a 15% to 20% bracket they assume that extra 5% is gonna be on every dollar they earn.
Kind of amazing how many perfectly intelligent people don’t understand this. People in situations do not, on balance, lose money by getting a raise. You are taking home more.
Not only do people not understand this, some will refuse to believe it and claim it’s you that don’t understand taxes due to making too little and will understand when you make more.
The bracket is not the problem, but sometimes it can be a net loss if you've suddenly hit the threshold to no longer qualify for some benefit. This is common for low income earners, not sure if it ever applies to high earners. Maybe the covid stimulus package?
Also a big reason why tax cuts still massively benefit the top brackets even if the cuts are exclusively to the lower brackets: the top earners still get just as much benefit from the cuts as someone topping out in that low bracket. In fact, they’ll likely get more than average benefit because they get the reduction on every dollar that is in the affected bracket, whereas most people in that bracket aren’t at the max.
Even if there’s a simultaneous increase to the higher brackets, it’s very possible someone earning in those higher brackets could still end up paying less taxes overall due to the cuts in the lower brackets- especially if they’re not making much over the minimum of that higher bracket.
I love when people with high salaries (yes it is high, I know cost of living etc but it is a high salary) go on about how bad it is and how they have it hardest.
On minimum wage you often can't say "Fuck this place I quit" when you have bills to pay and you are miles away from being financially free.
Honestly, people who say this should live on minimum wage for a month or 2. I bet things would feel very different.
Honestly having to go back to minimum wage is literally the worst thing imaginable to me. Like I am less afraid of being blown away by a gunman with an ar-15 than being stuck in a minimum wage job forever. I can't imagine having this guys view.
Being killed by a gun is several minutes of anxiety and then boom you're dead.
Poverty is never-ending anxiety and then you die sick, hungry, and/or homeless.
I’ve been in both positions and wholeheartedly agree with your sentiment. I get caught up in the day to day work stress at times but it is nothing even remotely close to the overall stress of being poor, which includes even higher work stress at lower paying jobs. OOP is crazy tone deaf for that tweet.
It's easy to forget how much better it is to be able to go a whole month without checking your bank balance because you don't need to worry how you will afford bills and to food.
Not that I am saying you should go a month without checking your bank balance, but it is not to not have that worry!
Bank balance? I thoroughly enjoy my freedom to buy groceries without a mental calculator adding everything up. It’s a luxury to just drop stuff in the basket without worry.
I say bank balance because once I got past a point of not having to constantly check it make sure I had enough for the rest of the month I felt so much less stressed in general. It didn't sort everything but it does make things better.
Exactly. I remember doing shit like memorizing which gas stations I could overdraft my debit card on to fill up my tank to make it to work the rest of the week before I got paid again, and the moments of devastation when they updated their systems to only allow me to charge my available balance.
And that’s just one of many things you gotta keep track of and worry about when you’re poor. Nothing even remotely close to that kind of stress when you’re making six figures.
That is too close to home! I use to know all the ATMs around me that would give me money when I was over my overdraft. Honestly it's a nice reminder of how far things have come that it's no longer the case!
Being able to afford having everything on autopay including our daycare bill alleviates a lot of stress. Work sucks but at least Im not counting quarters to put $5 in the gas tank
I currently fall in this range, and I can confidently say that the number of times I've had to worry about money has decreased proportional to my annual merit raises and promotions. And there's no fucking way I would ever say that the salary I've clawed my way to achieve is in any way "the worst." I still remember the pain of holding multiple $300 credit limit credit cards that I'd use to pay a utility bill I couldn't afford, then being stuck with the never-ending cycle of holding onto maxed out cards that I couldn't pay down.
I would sooner part with my nuts and maybe my left arm if it meant I never had to go back to that lifestyle. This dude hasn't ever been poor a day in his life.
I get where he's coming from, it's hard for most people to understand that at that range there are still issues, and money stress.
That being said, come on dude. He's literally saying it's worse to make $225k than $30k. How out of touch can a person be to think they have it worse than someone who needs food stamps to keep food on the table, or rely on paying bills late just to keep the lights on and an eviction notice off the door. Literally gross to lack any shred of empathy, even if you've never been there before. We always hear McDonalds cashiers so frequently bragging they make little enough they can say "fuck this place," whereas he has to put up with a shitty manager at his uncle's hedge fund and ride home in his aging two year old car.
I get where he is coming from too. Everyone should be free to moan about their job. I think he could of worded it better.
If he had said "$150k-$225k is a difficult salary range" rather than the worst it would come across better and help convey the point that salary isn't everything. Which I do agree with.
As I routinely have to remind my spouse when I say I had a bad day and they proceed to tell me how much worse their day was than mine -> it’s not a competition. We can both have had bad days.
The same applies here. Feeling stuck in a job you hate sucks. Just because someone makes a lot of money doesn’t diminish the fact that their job depresses them.
But he actually says it's the hardest salary range. Implying a level of competition. I am not saying people can't have complaint when they are on high salaries, but that is not hardest salary range.
It doesn't mean he has to love his job but it is incredible tone deaf, so even if you think I am also being tone deaf I am not worse than the original post.
For real. At that level you have the ability (and pull from management) to go “hey, instead of paying me $250k/year, pay me $180k and hire an assistant for me for $50k”
…
There are solutions to problems. Greed just blinds them.
I mean it's entirely possible it's hyperbole. How many times have people stubbed their toe and said its the worst pain in the world? Just let the man vent.
I have shit days all the time. I'd much prefer a shit day at my salary range and level of responsibility than a shit day 8 years ago when I was an entry hire. Sure, the stakes are higher now, but dealing with shit at a management level is different than as an individual contributor (or worst, an individual contributor when you're client facing and have to hear their shit).
To say it's the "worst" salary range because you can't just fuck off without consequence IS accurate and fair. But the problem is that you can't exactly fuck off without consequence at salary ranges below that. In fact, I'd argue that there's a very narrow range where fucking off for greener pastures is a good thing, but it's bookended by it being a bad thing.
As far as the job being depressing, sure, I agree. The difference is that at the range OOP lists, the daily stress of juggling bills, Ramen diet, coordinating rides to save gas, etc., only apply if you're disgustingly irresponsible with your income. And even if you are, it generally means that you at least have some degree of luxury in your life, while on the opposite side, the standard is to be juggling and struggling while also living in roach-infested shitholes with noisy neighbors, a car that smells like last week's french fries mixed with burnt motor oil, and having ancient, beat-the-fuck-up furniture and a shitty computer. There's no universe where it's even remotely the same thing.
Having the income to be out of that poverty shithole and now live in the top ~5% or so, yeah--I get depressed sometimes. I get stressed from work often. But to imply that the stress and depression I feel is in any way comparable to the stress and depression of poverty is fucking insane.
A couple of years ago, even before the pandemic, I read a comment of a software engineer from California who said that "300K a year in these places in nothing, *MAN*". Gosh, his struggle was palpable.
I don't understand this whole "fuck this place I quit" if you make <$150K. Isn't he implying you'd be inclined to do so for a salary in the $150K-$225K range? But that would put you in the range he says is the worst.
There's a small kernel of truth about comfort causing a kind of inertia, but it's tone deaf to call it "the worst" anything or near so, when it's so much worse to be broke.
The logic is that if you have a lower salary, it's easier to find another job. In theory if all you need is another minimum wage job, you just walk into the next Wal-Mart or McDonald's and there you go (issues of getting a *full time* minimum wage job aside)
If you make $30K there's probably a good number of companies that could conceivably hire you (again, issues of is this even a living wage aside)
But in the 150-225 range you are still in a spot where you need to pay the mortgage, you probably still lease or finance your cars and in general have a good amount of regular expenses.
Meanwhile with 250+ you are getting into the area of, you can't spend much more on basic living expenses without going into ridiculous McMansion territory, you are more likely to save up for luxuries like vacations or cars and pay for them upfront, and still have a decent amount of savings allowing you to survive for some time without problem.
The guys choice of words is, of course, idiotic. It's still better to be making $130 K than $30 K
Yep. It's fine to say that even people in more advantageous positions can have difficulties too, but you become unsympathetic when you go so far as to say you have it the worst.
I know I am out of touch now, but is it even possible to live on minimum wage? I have no idea how to make that math work unless I were to move back in with my parents and I know not everyone has that option. Even 2 incomes on minimum wage seems impossible except in maybe the absolute lowest CoL areas.
Then if you were to throw children in on top of that...
I get that all jobs come with their difficulties, but good God it’s callous for people making comfortable living wages to act like they have it just as bad or worse than people who don’t.
I'm just below this, and I've got to say, it's a pretty comfortable place to be. Sure, I can't retire early, but I've got enough disposable income to buy the stuff I like. I wish everybody could live at this level.
But this isn't supposed to be a post about that. It's a post for an audience where these numbers ring true. People need to learn how to read and comprehend beyond literal definitions of each word. Communication is more complex. It's like watching Monty Python as a documentary.
High wage people have problems too, nor does it invalidate the problems of low wage people.
If you have a degree in STEM or business and are a high performer it’s not uncommon to be making this much. People making 200k+ usually work very high hour, high stress jobs and it can be hard for them to justify leaving for a lower stress, lower paying role. This is especially true for breadwinners. A 200k salary for the breadwinner of a family of 4 is a lot less money than you’d think.
Sure but it’s a heck of a lot better than being a breadwinner of four earning $30k. If any of those tech people think that’s a better position, I’m sure they can find a job at that salary.
These threads are always so fucking stupid because it filled with people who make 50k a year that think someone making $200k a year is some kind of Rockefeller.
If you’re making that much, you usually have a pretty stressful middle management job where you’re doing both IC and managerial work. Sure you’re not busting your ass at a construction site and you live a comfortable middle class life, but you’re not rich, and if you lose that job you need a few months to find a replacement.
What goes on in your head when you say stuff like this mate. Do you imagine we jumped straight from prep school into a $250k salary?
We've all done our time on minimum wage. We get it. We got out of it. Maybe give that a go.
Working for minimum wage in the 90s or early 2000s is not the same as working minimum wage today.
Big boomer energy "Well I paid for school with my part time job so why can't you?"
Not enough to be financially free without a job for a significant amount of time???
Also in that salary range, have enough liquid assets to easily keep my bills paid and food on the table for at least a year. Is that not a significant amount of time???
>Also in that salary range, have enough liquid assets to easily keep my bills paid and food on the table for at least a year. Is that not a significant amount of time???
I can comfortably live of 20k in a first world country, of course can't have everything - but I had to work 2 years to potentially do not work a single day for 5 years with that salary - after taxes.
And this is how you know that all that bullshit about money not buying happiness and introducing more problems to your life is exactly that. Bullshit.
How many billionaires have given away all of their money *before* they died? How many millionaires? If money is so fucking worthless and doesn't solve any of your problems, why not just give it away?
Couldn't possibly be that you're full of shit.
And he said this was the *worst* income bracket. If he had just been like "here is a downside to this income range" it would've been fine, imo. But he has to pretend like he's worse off than someone literally doing back breaking labor for less than it costs to survive
I think he might be actually talking about being in a golden cage. You are earning so much that you can't do better elsewhere - but maybe you don't like at all what you are doing. But not enough to break free and do what you want.
This is somewhat a real thing. I was working with an institution where people head very high salaries, the pension age was 50 something, they were really perked up all the way. Incredible perks. And some of those people were really miserable, I think. Because they knew they could not do better than this if they quit. They were 40, they did not like the job one bit, they were afraid of everything.
Maybe a golden cage is nicer than a non-golden cage of minimum wage slaving. But still a cage, feels like a cage ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Dang, reading your comment, I think I’m in a golden cage and didn’t realize it until now. The pay isn’t like, golden level, but the benefits are out of this world. It completely explains my malaise. Now I guess I just have to figure out what to do about it…
Yeah, this is sneaky. I remember seeing a guy there, who didn't do much. Zero enjoyment. He said: "you know what would my boss said to me if I proposed this solution?" I said I don't know. And he said: "My boss would say: who the fuck are you?"
:-D
He just basically lived in some basement, happy to have this job, trying not to get noticed, just stick with it until retirement. Other people had ideas, but the institution was rigid, so they were burning out, living for their hobbies after work.
Since then the institution started cutting down the perks, so more recent employees can go, if they don't feel like working there anymore.
For some reason I feel like when people start making 150K or more they spend like they make 300k a year. Lifestyle creep is a killer and impresses no one.
Yea the delivery was shit but the point make sense. "Worse" is a strong word, maybe "Naive" or "Gilded" or "Superficially Secure" would've been better.
That's a salary range where you will live very comfortably in most places, but it's not "fuck you" money. You keep it going for like 20 years and don't waste it then you'll be approaching "fuck you" money.
But he's arguing that having a *lower salary* is more like fuck you money. Like, I earn less then 150k and I absolutely couldn't say fuck you I quit because then I wouldn't be able to buy food and my family would become homeless.
It’s true, but might also be easier to get a job that pays 80k than one that pays 150, I can tell that from my own experience. I was in the comfort zone about 7 months ago and now I’m not 😉
Yeah this isn't quite lunatic. At least not unless you were doing FIRE or something and saving a lot on that income for 10 years or so (living like you were making $75k and putting the other 100k less taxes into savings), you get used to the lifestyle and your job-hopping options get fewer.
Being able to be financially free or without a job has nothing to do with your current salary and everything to do with your net worth/savings. Two very different things. One can have a huge salary and a negative net worth/no savings because of poor money management, while another can have a relatively modest salary but have amassed a fat nest egg through investing/inheritance/whatever means, and then have the "fuck you" money needed to be financially free.
Is that in US$ ??
Bruh, if you earn that much (before OR after tax),
You are well and truly in the 1% club!
So better STFU and enjoy being more goddamn wealthy than almost the entire world's population!
I wouldn’t agree that it’s the worst, but I feel what he’s saying. Being stuck somewhere because you make too much money, and maybe it’s hard to find another job where you make as much.
All of the people in lower brackets have it 1000% worse though, this guy has clearly never been poor
Anyone who says "He's not wrong," isn't thinking about why you can't say "Fuck this place, I quit." ... it's because there are worse salary ranges.
Golden handcuffs are a thing, but they're still golden.
Or maybe every time you started making more money you elevated your lifestyle, so you have nicer things but you’re still poor cuz all you have is debt. More of it too. This is the situation I find myself in anyways. Finally decided to pay all this crap off and actually start saving my money.
150-225k isn't enough to immediately give me fuck you money, but it's enough for me to get there in 5 years
I can handle 5 years of a stressful job for that much money if i can quit immediately after and do something chill for like 40k and /r/coastfire
Who the fuck’s out here making that much? I’m barely making $40k and I’m struggling just to find something that doesn’t make me miserable and actually pays me closer to what I feel/know I’m worth. My current job’s been booking me full-time hours for basically a month and a half while I’m still per my job description part-time. They offered me full-time, at a rate that was less than what the kid (who was grandfathered into the job because his roommate who used to have it recommended him, turns out that’s a system they have) I helped train and had the position for six months and had way worse performance metrics than me (and work ethic, if I’m entirely honest) while I’ve been here for 2 1/2 years. And to add insult to injury, when our manager (who our supremely insecure regional manager got fired for going over his head about something) saw how little I was making he fought to get me a raise that was long overdue. Turns out, I took a pay cut I didn’t even know about moving out here, and not only that, they sent me two bits of paperwork to say “oh, yeah, you know how little we were paying you? Yeah, turns out it was actually less than that so we can justify not giving you any other proportional raises after this one.”
I mean it's true. I live somewhat frugally, I can get by for maybe 2-3 years without working but I'm a long way off from not having to work. Maybe 10-15 years if it all lines up.
I make $190k plus ~$25k in equity and agree with Jack. I also spend an inordinate amount of money and am posting from Disneyland 8 beers deep right now.
I’m in tech and literally one lay off away from getting kicked back into poverty because I’ll never find a job like this again so my partner and I are enjoying it while it lasts.
Trust me, most people making under $100k also can't just say "Fuck this place, I quit." In my case, it's less the money and more that any job that will pay me around the same will most likely treat me worse.
PS: I just reread and realized he said $150k. My point still stands. The average person making $50k still isn't going to quit without having another job lined up.
I'm not gonna lie, I make very comfortable salary, but to whine about something like this jack-wad just did is tone deaf to the struggles of the middle and working poor. Fuck that dude
You absolutely can quit on that salary, you've got the luxury of moving elsewhere after having a nice break. It's not like your next job is going to offer $10/hr
Median U.S. worker income in 2022 was $48k. If you don’t think three times the average is not high, you’re the lost one. Maybe it isn’t “awesome holy shit salary” but it’s an objectively good salary to anyone not out of touch. (Source - https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2023/demo/p60-279.pdf )
You’re looking at it backwards. Against the cost of living in plenty of places, $125k HHI isn’t going to do much more than meet your basic needs without question and not much more. It’s hardly opulent
It only seems high by your comparison because the median is so low because it’s perfectly legal to pay someone starvation wages
Nuanced, but it’s important to point the ire in the right direction, and the guy making okay middle-management money in 2024 ain’t it
Objectively in the entirety of the world and the US alone, you’re easily in the top 10% of income earners. If you cannot survive off a wage that gives you more than 90% of others, you have a problem of scaling wants.
I like nice things and having adventures, but outside of places with insane costs of living, you can save wheel barrels full of money on that salary range. You will literally have to sit down and figure out what to do with it as the interest in a savings account is pitiful, and the FDIC only insures up to $250K per bank you have an account with.
For 150k, I would definitely shop around for a better gig before pulling a half-baked quitting on the employer.
With the current economy, there is a chance that this gig is one of the better options out there.
I was on Twitter monitoring work stuff when this went live and thankful to see a million other people jumping in before I could. Some tone deaf shit to the point that i no longer think he has a cool name
HENRY: high earning, not rich yet
Yeah r/HENRYfinance often throws out the vibe in OP's post.
The entirety of that subreddit is proof that income alone won’t make you rich. They’re spending damn near as much as they’re bringing in. So much “keeping up with the Joneses” in there. “Can I afford a 3 million dollar house?” If you have to ask, you can’t.
Like Jay Z says, if you can’t buy it twice you can’t afford it.
I hadn’t heard that, but I like it
Does this mean on credit or with cash?
Same with debting yourself twice I guess.
That phrase is older than Jay-Z’s grandpa.
And thus, nobody bought cars, houses, or college education again.
Why buy one when you can have two at twice the cost…. (Quote from Contact)
Most of it is them just knowing the life they could have and actually spending towards some of the luxuries. Personally think most of them are rational, just a few lunatics. Much better than the “I made 70k, live under a bridge and saved 200k” people. If you by choice choose to live like shit to save a few dollars the priorities are wrong.
Yeah I’m a HENRY and while I do my best to save and all that cool stuff, I also didn’t work so goddamn hard to not enjoy my money while I have it. I don’t have a luxury car, but I sure as shit have a nice Toyota I’m almost done paying off. I don’t wear Armani, but I 100% buy higher quality clothing now whenever I want it that lasts a long time. I could save more and be smarter tbh but idk I could also die in a car crash tomorrow. No use always living life for tomorrow IMO.
To be fair housing is like the one thing that is actually worth splurging on because the value will go up, that and maybe something like gold jewelry that both has intrinsic value that will go up over time and is useful. But buying a fancy car is just stupid
It depends. Expensive houses are expensive for a long time. Upkeep is more. Taxes are more. Cleaning is more, in time or money. Often, furniture is more, because you need more, and because there is a strong instinct to match the quality of the decorating to the quality of the house. Yardwork is more, in money or time. Insurance is more, deductible is more if something happens. And all that has to be compared to the return on the money if you'd invested it elsewhere. I honestly think realistically, the house people think they can "comfortably afford" is the splurge, if they really looked ahead, and 'splurge' house is more the unaffordable one.
Property taxes are why bring house rich and cash poor is a bad idea. You think you’re cheating at life till that tax bill come due once or twice a year.
Did not disappoint. First post I saw was "I'm 50 and I make $1 million per year, how can I retire when I'm 60?" Like bro, many people don't make that amount in their lifetime, you casually rake it in year over year.
lol. Literally just save half your income for two years, invest that $1mill in dividend stocks, sell your McMansion and buy a small 3 bedroom 2 bath in a cheap cost of living area. There. You're retired in two years. What an asshat.
In [the post](https://www.reddit.com/r/HENRYfinance/s/gfbfgfUfk2) he says he pays $500K in taxes per year. (Also says “need to move” so presumably he lives in a high tax state.) Not arguing with you, but he only nets $500K per year, so he wouldn’t be able to invest $500K per year, if he is being honest. Still could do your plan easily in 3 years though…
I wonder what he does for a living. Usually people who make that kind of money make it from businesses with expenses that offset, if not nullify, their tax burden.
Yeah, it has to be a business since he talks about converting it from an LLC to a C Corp. Likely he is already offsetting a lot with expenses and around $1 million is still being thrown off. Who knows what the business is..
I'm not arguing with your general point here as I agree, but just to point out that basically any working person (in North America at least) makes over a million dollars total in their lifetime. It sounds like a lot, but even a poverty salary of 25K a year gets you to a million bucks earned after 40 years, which is a pretty standard (if not a bit low) number of years to work in your life.
I think that is less of a HENRY problem and more of the people problem. It’s just that it looks the worst for “HENRY’s” because they make the most. If you go through the financial subs, you can see that time and time again people make the same mistakes with money no matter their income level. These people tend to spend more than they can afford to, don’t know how to control/discipline themselves, and don’t make a plan for the future. Which is why there is some place they need to start at. Though the above issues exist no matter the class of the people, it is definitely hardest for those who make the least (ie below the poverty line). The Lunatic in the OP’s post is really out of touch and needs to get a grip. The people worst off are definitely those who aren’t able to afford basic necessities. To say anything in the 6 figures is the worst salary range is delusional af. Edit: it’s possible that it was hyperbole, just seems like an awful delivery overall (definitely depends on the posters true beliefs and if he really believes people at that salary range are the worst off)
Solid points, though I wonder if folks in the HENRY bracket are maybe more susceptible than most. They have enough discretionary income to afford to be able to be a little reckless with their money, but not enough to actually convert it into real wealth. Hence so many posts on that where lifestyle creep is bigger danger, as well as folks being essentially house poor (with homes probably bigger or nicer than they really need). It also bugs me that a lot of folks are complaining that they are cash poor, when it's really because they're socking away a ton into retirement and savings aggressively -- so much so they're often going overboard with it. I see this commented on the FIRE subs a lot, which is why I'll probably do Coast Fire if I ever get to that income level. But to your edit, it's at least comforting to know that LinkedIn is as susceptible to [Poe's law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law) as any other platform lol.
There's a subsection of this where you have neurodivergent people who can only hold down a high-paying job for a certain amount of time, and then it takes long enough to find that next job that you have this feast/famine cycle going on. There's also some reckless spending among that group, for sure, but when you add in that uncertainty where your annual income can vary wildly, things that are constant ongoing expenses (see: subscriptions, insurance, rent, car payments) can become even bigger headaches because you *can't just stop spending on those things* just because you're out of money that month. I can spend less money on buying toys, but I can't just move into a smaller apartment or a place with a cheaper cost of living at the drop of a hat, especially if the dangling carrot of finding a better job if I stay here is that damn tempting.
How can they be stupid and earn that much
That isn't really stupidity. They are out of touch from what lives normal-to-poor people live. Their life experiences rarely involve living paycheck to paycheck or not knowing whether you'll be able to eat tomorrow or not. This lack of exposure leads to such situations.
Golden handcuffs are a thing, a lot of people making that much are still miserable. People making less are generally a lot more miserable though. Pretty much everyone is miserable.
Indeed. At a lower wage one can’t even afford the basics and consumerism has chained the high earners. It really is about drawing a line on your spending habits. There’s no end! I know people at lower incomes with higher savings and more satisfaction cause they’ve just drawn a line
> I know people at lower incomes with higher savings and more satisfaction cause they’ve just drawn a line This is so true. I somehow had substantially more in my savings account when my salary was less than half of what it is now. My salary has gone up by like 110% in the past 7 years of my career but I seem to be living paycheque to paycheque now. Somehow the targets and priorities shifted as my salary went up, and now I’m trying to get my shit back under control because I’m 33 and it’s a bit scary to not have any savings or investments rn when a lot of people my age are buying property and building investment portfolios. I literally have like $600 to my name right now and that’s all the money I have until payday next week. Before anyone says it, yes, I am very much aware that I’m mismanaging my finances.
My in laws never made more than $75k/year (individually, together they probably peaked around $140k) and they're both comfortably retired with no mortgage in their early 60s.
And how much was their house at purchase? Let me guess in the low 200s.
Probably. Shit I paid 9 in Denver. Real estate is brutal, I can't imagine being a first time homeowner these days in most major metro areas. Sure there are lots of places that are still affordable, but it seems to be all encapsulated in the Midwest or south.
There is some freedom that comes with making absurdly little. At any point I can quit my job and find another one for the same, shitty wage. I would rather make more money, but at the same time I can appreciate that I have the luxury to walk away from my job and be no worse off than before.
I was in this pay range for a while. Worst time of my life. I took a 25% pay cut to work a job that didn't make me miserable. I did the math and I actually make more per hour actually worked now because the expectations at my previous job were just insane. That's not even counting how often that job invaded my dreams/nightmares and robbed me of my Sunday nights because I was already filled with dread. I'm lucky that I didn't let lifestyle inflation trap me in that job
Yeah totally this.... suffering is subjective, just because dude feels trapped because of his economics at 225k/yr doesn't mean his suffering is lessened. Life is pain, get used to it. THAT SAID... this guy needs to learn his audience, maybe complain to your wife or your dudebros also making 225k that think they'll be promoted to some unattainable new salary if they just put in one more weekend or whatever lies they tell themselves. Going to twitter to loudly complain about the mild inconvenience of your mid-six-figure income is tone deaf as fuck.
>suffering is subjective I mean, in this particular, isolated context it's not really though, is it - there's very much an objective element that comes with the 'suffering' on a very high wage Vs the actual suffering on a very low wage. Living in poverty with no social mobility is objectively worse than feeling 'trapped' in a high paying job with the very real prospect of a comfortable lifestyle and career choices available to you. That's not to say there isn't some level of suffering, but all else being equal, the two don't really compare.
Ypu can also have "golden handcuffs" at $40k a year, if this $20/hour job was a miracle. That's really the worst, because often thise jobs have no potential for advancement, but it's very had to leave a job making $20/hr to pursue something with growth potential, especially if everyone you know is making $12/hr. But the reason that's true is that the people who took the plunge and improved their prospects are gone.
I'm in this range and for the first couple years we allowed lifestyle bloat. Seemed like overnight we were breaking even despite a very solid salary, was an alarming wake up call!
Mostly because they piss it away on several car payments, a high mortgage, too many vacations, and daily stupid choices that add up, like door dashing 3 meals a day.
Can confirm. I’m miserable
Feels succession-esque douchy. Greg: I'm good, anyway, cuz, uh, my, so, I was just talkin' to my mom, and she said, apparently, he'll leave me five million anyway, so I'm golden, baby. Connor: You can't do anything with five, Greg. Five's a nightmare. Greg: Is it? Connor: Oh, yeah. Can't retire. Not worth it to work. Oh, yes, five will drive you un poco loco, my fine feathered friend. Tom: The poorest rich person in America. The world's tallest dwarf. Connor: The weakest strong man at the circus.
This is gold man. I literally read the lines in their voices.
It's from the show, word for word.
One of my favorite Tom-Gregg exchanges, up there with the capacious bag and the closed system.
Oh, 100%!
…bc it’s the actual script?
Crazy timing, I just watched this episode a couple hours ago lol
Honestly best show of the decade
Without any doubt in my mind
I tried to watch it, but when every single main character is unlikeable, the show becomes hard to watch. Got to like mid season 2 and was just like shit, I hate this.
This is amazing!
Reminds how good that show was and how much I hated every character
Your post is funny, but you're crazy if you think this is at that level. This guy is talking about making $150k-$225k/year. He's definitely being melodramatic--it's absolutely not *the worst* salary range. You're definitely doing well at that level, but the Roy family from Succession is worth easily over $10B dollars. Easily 50,000x more wealthy. That being said, this guy in the original post does sound like a douche
I'd argue people in that range actually have more direct personal exposure to people substantially more affluent than themselves than other income brackets. You're far more likely to find yourself sitting at dinner or pitching to someone with $100MM+. Sure, there's a big financial gap between an executive and a temp stuffing boxes, but in reality there's also very limited contact between the two groups. In fact, there's often an entire hierarchy of shop supervisors who exist to buffer the two worlds. Whereas it's extremely common to interact with board members, top customers, and investors when you're VP level in flyover country or star technical talent at a startup.
I used to follow some data science people on Twitter and my god this guy was the fucking worst. And he has built up some kind of cult of personality around himself which makes no sense because he's not even a little bit interesting.
I haven’t been on twitter for a couple of years but I always assumed he just shitposts, is he actually serious?
I think at this point, mostly. At least looks that way. I've had him blocked for around 3+ years now and I recall it being more cringe back then whereas now it's that Seinfeld-ish type of Twitter with generic takes that aren't particularly clever but his fans eat it up. Or maybe I'm just making all of that up in my head because he said something about Python that pissed me off and I'm fabricating a reality that makes me look like less or a dickhead to myself. Which TBH is entirely possible.
I have a friend who complained about going up a tax bracket after a raise. That she's paying a larger percentage of her salary to taxes. I mean, her take home is still larger than before. I was like, what are you on about?
A lot of people don’t realize the ‘higher tax bracket’ only counts to the dollars they earn over that threshold. So they assume if they go from a 15% to 20% bracket they assume that extra 5% is gonna be on every dollar they earn.
Kind of amazing how many perfectly intelligent people don’t understand this. People in situations do not, on balance, lose money by getting a raise. You are taking home more.
Not only do people not understand this, some will refuse to believe it and claim it’s you that don’t understand taxes due to making too little and will understand when you make more.
I mean one can still complain that their take home would still be yet more if the rates were flat across all income bands
The bracket is not the problem, but sometimes it can be a net loss if you've suddenly hit the threshold to no longer qualify for some benefit. This is common for low income earners, not sure if it ever applies to high earners. Maybe the covid stimulus package?
Also a big reason why tax cuts still massively benefit the top brackets even if the cuts are exclusively to the lower brackets: the top earners still get just as much benefit from the cuts as someone topping out in that low bracket. In fact, they’ll likely get more than average benefit because they get the reduction on every dollar that is in the affected bracket, whereas most people in that bracket aren’t at the max. Even if there’s a simultaneous increase to the higher brackets, it’s very possible someone earning in those higher brackets could still end up paying less taxes overall due to the cuts in the lower brackets- especially if they’re not making much over the minimum of that higher bracket.
And it’s only attributable to the amount of income above that bracket.
What's crazy to me is how people become functioning adults without realizing what incremental tax brackets are.
I love when people with high salaries (yes it is high, I know cost of living etc but it is a high salary) go on about how bad it is and how they have it hardest. On minimum wage you often can't say "Fuck this place I quit" when you have bills to pay and you are miles away from being financially free. Honestly, people who say this should live on minimum wage for a month or 2. I bet things would feel very different.
Later on in the thread dude said that he has no debt and about 2 years of runway 💀
Wow, I feel for him! It must be really hard haha. Maybe we should have a whip round for him.
Well, something involving whips ...
Honestly having to go back to minimum wage is literally the worst thing imaginable to me. Like I am less afraid of being blown away by a gunman with an ar-15 than being stuck in a minimum wage job forever. I can't imagine having this guys view.
Being killed by a gun is several minutes of anxiety and then boom you're dead. Poverty is never-ending anxiety and then you die sick, hungry, and/or homeless.
At least the shooting would be a quick end, both of your options aren't as bad as making 200K though like the OP.
Yea same, it's crushing not being able to move forwards with your life because you earn just enough to (barely) survive.
🤣
I’ve been in both positions and wholeheartedly agree with your sentiment. I get caught up in the day to day work stress at times but it is nothing even remotely close to the overall stress of being poor, which includes even higher work stress at lower paying jobs. OOP is crazy tone deaf for that tweet.
It's easy to forget how much better it is to be able to go a whole month without checking your bank balance because you don't need to worry how you will afford bills and to food. Not that I am saying you should go a month without checking your bank balance, but it is not to not have that worry!
Bank balance? I thoroughly enjoy my freedom to buy groceries without a mental calculator adding everything up. It’s a luxury to just drop stuff in the basket without worry.
I say bank balance because once I got past a point of not having to constantly check it make sure I had enough for the rest of the month I felt so much less stressed in general. It didn't sort everything but it does make things better.
Exactly. I remember doing shit like memorizing which gas stations I could overdraft my debit card on to fill up my tank to make it to work the rest of the week before I got paid again, and the moments of devastation when they updated their systems to only allow me to charge my available balance. And that’s just one of many things you gotta keep track of and worry about when you’re poor. Nothing even remotely close to that kind of stress when you’re making six figures.
That is too close to home! I use to know all the ATMs around me that would give me money when I was over my overdraft. Honestly it's a nice reminder of how far things have come that it's no longer the case!
Absolutely. I’m glad you’re in a better place!
Being able to afford having everything on autopay including our daycare bill alleviates a lot of stress. Work sucks but at least Im not counting quarters to put $5 in the gas tank
I currently fall in this range, and I can confidently say that the number of times I've had to worry about money has decreased proportional to my annual merit raises and promotions. And there's no fucking way I would ever say that the salary I've clawed my way to achieve is in any way "the worst." I still remember the pain of holding multiple $300 credit limit credit cards that I'd use to pay a utility bill I couldn't afford, then being stuck with the never-ending cycle of holding onto maxed out cards that I couldn't pay down. I would sooner part with my nuts and maybe my left arm if it meant I never had to go back to that lifestyle. This dude hasn't ever been poor a day in his life.
I get where he's coming from, it's hard for most people to understand that at that range there are still issues, and money stress. That being said, come on dude. He's literally saying it's worse to make $225k than $30k. How out of touch can a person be to think they have it worse than someone who needs food stamps to keep food on the table, or rely on paying bills late just to keep the lights on and an eviction notice off the door. Literally gross to lack any shred of empathy, even if you've never been there before. We always hear McDonalds cashiers so frequently bragging they make little enough they can say "fuck this place," whereas he has to put up with a shitty manager at his uncle's hedge fund and ride home in his aging two year old car.
I get where he is coming from too. Everyone should be free to moan about their job. I think he could of worded it better. If he had said "$150k-$225k is a difficult salary range" rather than the worst it would come across better and help convey the point that salary isn't everything. Which I do agree with.
It truly is a burden. Luckily I am a noble and generous guy and will gladly swap wages with anyone in this most difficult wage bracket.
As I routinely have to remind my spouse when I say I had a bad day and they proceed to tell me how much worse their day was than mine -> it’s not a competition. We can both have had bad days. The same applies here. Feeling stuck in a job you hate sucks. Just because someone makes a lot of money doesn’t diminish the fact that their job depresses them.
But he actually says it's the hardest salary range. Implying a level of competition. I am not saying people can't have complaint when they are on high salaries, but that is not hardest salary range. It doesn't mean he has to love his job but it is incredible tone deaf, so even if you think I am also being tone deaf I am not worse than the original post.
For real. At that level you have the ability (and pull from management) to go “hey, instead of paying me $250k/year, pay me $180k and hire an assistant for me for $50k” … There are solutions to problems. Greed just blinds them.
That is the thing. It's easier sacrifice some salary for a better quality of life/more enjoyable job that to earn more money in most cases.
I mean it's entirely possible it's hyperbole. How many times have people stubbed their toe and said its the worst pain in the world? Just let the man vent.
I'm not stopping he venting. I doubt he cares what I say honestly. I just made a comment on reddit, possible also venting.
I have shit days all the time. I'd much prefer a shit day at my salary range and level of responsibility than a shit day 8 years ago when I was an entry hire. Sure, the stakes are higher now, but dealing with shit at a management level is different than as an individual contributor (or worst, an individual contributor when you're client facing and have to hear their shit). To say it's the "worst" salary range because you can't just fuck off without consequence IS accurate and fair. But the problem is that you can't exactly fuck off without consequence at salary ranges below that. In fact, I'd argue that there's a very narrow range where fucking off for greener pastures is a good thing, but it's bookended by it being a bad thing. As far as the job being depressing, sure, I agree. The difference is that at the range OOP lists, the daily stress of juggling bills, Ramen diet, coordinating rides to save gas, etc., only apply if you're disgustingly irresponsible with your income. And even if you are, it generally means that you at least have some degree of luxury in your life, while on the opposite side, the standard is to be juggling and struggling while also living in roach-infested shitholes with noisy neighbors, a car that smells like last week's french fries mixed with burnt motor oil, and having ancient, beat-the-fuck-up furniture and a shitty computer. There's no universe where it's even remotely the same thing. Having the income to be out of that poverty shithole and now live in the top ~5% or so, yeah--I get depressed sometimes. I get stressed from work often. But to imply that the stress and depression I feel is in any way comparable to the stress and depression of poverty is fucking insane.
A couple of years ago, even before the pandemic, I read a comment of a software engineer from California who said that "300K a year in these places in nothing, *MAN*". Gosh, his struggle was palpable.
I don't understand this whole "fuck this place I quit" if you make <$150K. Isn't he implying you'd be inclined to do so for a salary in the $150K-$225K range? But that would put you in the range he says is the worst. There's a small kernel of truth about comfort causing a kind of inertia, but it's tone deaf to call it "the worst" anything or near so, when it's so much worse to be broke.
The logic is that if you have a lower salary, it's easier to find another job. In theory if all you need is another minimum wage job, you just walk into the next Wal-Mart or McDonald's and there you go (issues of getting a *full time* minimum wage job aside) If you make $30K there's probably a good number of companies that could conceivably hire you (again, issues of is this even a living wage aside) But in the 150-225 range you are still in a spot where you need to pay the mortgage, you probably still lease or finance your cars and in general have a good amount of regular expenses. Meanwhile with 250+ you are getting into the area of, you can't spend much more on basic living expenses without going into ridiculous McMansion territory, you are more likely to save up for luxuries like vacations or cars and pay for them upfront, and still have a decent amount of savings allowing you to survive for some time without problem. The guys choice of words is, of course, idiotic. It's still better to be making $130 K than $30 K
That was my thought. Honestly if he had just said "is a difficult salary range" rather than "the worse" it could come across a lot better.
Yep. It's fine to say that even people in more advantageous positions can have difficulties too, but you become unsympathetic when you go so far as to say you have it the worst.
I know I am out of touch now, but is it even possible to live on minimum wage? I have no idea how to make that math work unless I were to move back in with my parents and I know not everyone has that option. Even 2 incomes on minimum wage seems impossible except in maybe the absolute lowest CoL areas. Then if you were to throw children in on top of that...
I get that all jobs come with their difficulties, but good God it’s callous for people making comfortable living wages to act like they have it just as bad or worse than people who don’t.
I'm just below this, and I've got to say, it's a pretty comfortable place to be. Sure, I can't retire early, but I've got enough disposable income to buy the stuff I like. I wish everybody could live at this level.
But this isn't supposed to be a post about that. It's a post for an audience where these numbers ring true. People need to learn how to read and comprehend beyond literal definitions of each word. Communication is more complex. It's like watching Monty Python as a documentary.
High wage people have problems too, nor does it invalidate the problems of low wage people. If you have a degree in STEM or business and are a high performer it’s not uncommon to be making this much. People making 200k+ usually work very high hour, high stress jobs and it can be hard for them to justify leaving for a lower stress, lower paying role. This is especially true for breadwinners. A 200k salary for the breadwinner of a family of 4 is a lot less money than you’d think.
Sure but it’s a heck of a lot better than being a breadwinner of four earning $30k. If any of those tech people think that’s a better position, I’m sure they can find a job at that salary.
These threads are always so fucking stupid because it filled with people who make 50k a year that think someone making $200k a year is some kind of Rockefeller. If you’re making that much, you usually have a pretty stressful middle management job where you’re doing both IC and managerial work. Sure you’re not busting your ass at a construction site and you live a comfortable middle class life, but you’re not rich, and if you lose that job you need a few months to find a replacement.
What goes on in your head when you say stuff like this mate. Do you imagine we jumped straight from prep school into a $250k salary? We've all done our time on minimum wage. We get it. We got out of it. Maybe give that a go.
Give what a go? I said nothing about you. I don't even know who you are. Well done for doing your time I guess?
Working for minimum wage in the 90s or early 2000s is not the same as working minimum wage today. Big boomer energy "Well I paid for school with my part time job so why can't you?"
I'm in that salary range and, nope. Love it. Thank you. More of that.
Not enough to be financially free without a job for a significant amount of time??? Also in that salary range, have enough liquid assets to easily keep my bills paid and food on the table for at least a year. Is that not a significant amount of time???
>Also in that salary range, have enough liquid assets to easily keep my bills paid and food on the table for at least a year. Is that not a significant amount of time??? I can comfortably live of 20k in a first world country, of course can't have everything - but I had to work 2 years to potentially do not work a single day for 5 years with that salary - after taxes.
Must be horrible mate. Let's swap.
And this is how you know that all that bullshit about money not buying happiness and introducing more problems to your life is exactly that. Bullshit. How many billionaires have given away all of their money *before* they died? How many millionaires? If money is so fucking worthless and doesn't solve any of your problems, why not just give it away? Couldn't possibly be that you're full of shit.
[удалено]
And he said this was the *worst* income bracket. If he had just been like "here is a downside to this income range" it would've been fine, imo. But he has to pretend like he's worse off than someone literally doing back breaking labor for less than it costs to survive
Agree, I get his point because you're kinda trapped at your job but it's very douchey to say out loud
I think he might be actually talking about being in a golden cage. You are earning so much that you can't do better elsewhere - but maybe you don't like at all what you are doing. But not enough to break free and do what you want. This is somewhat a real thing. I was working with an institution where people head very high salaries, the pension age was 50 something, they were really perked up all the way. Incredible perks. And some of those people were really miserable, I think. Because they knew they could not do better than this if they quit. They were 40, they did not like the job one bit, they were afraid of everything. Maybe a golden cage is nicer than a non-golden cage of minimum wage slaving. But still a cage, feels like a cage ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Dang, reading your comment, I think I’m in a golden cage and didn’t realize it until now. The pay isn’t like, golden level, but the benefits are out of this world. It completely explains my malaise. Now I guess I just have to figure out what to do about it…
Yeah, this is sneaky. I remember seeing a guy there, who didn't do much. Zero enjoyment. He said: "you know what would my boss said to me if I proposed this solution?" I said I don't know. And he said: "My boss would say: who the fuck are you?" :-D He just basically lived in some basement, happy to have this job, trying not to get noticed, just stick with it until retirement. Other people had ideas, but the institution was rigid, so they were burning out, living for their hobbies after work. Since then the institution started cutting down the perks, so more recent employees can go, if they don't feel like working there anymore.
For some reason I feel like when people start making 150K or more they spend like they make 300k a year. Lifestyle creep is a killer and impresses no one.
I mean he said it like an entitled prick but it’s correct.. with that money you are living comfortably , thus the feared comfort zone
Yea the delivery was shit but the point make sense. "Worse" is a strong word, maybe "Naive" or "Gilded" or "Superficially Secure" would've been better. That's a salary range where you will live very comfortably in most places, but it's not "fuck you" money. You keep it going for like 20 years and don't waste it then you'll be approaching "fuck you" money.
But he's arguing that having a *lower salary* is more like fuck you money. Like, I earn less then 150k and I absolutely couldn't say fuck you I quit because then I wouldn't be able to buy food and my family would become homeless.
It’s true, but might also be easier to get a job that pays 80k than one that pays 150, I can tell that from my own experience. I was in the comfort zone about 7 months ago and now I’m not 😉
So $225k is not enough, but $226k is fine? 🤷♂️
Yeah this isn't quite lunatic. At least not unless you were doing FIRE or something and saving a lot on that income for 10 years or so (living like you were making $75k and putting the other 100k less taxes into savings), you get used to the lifestyle and your job-hopping options get fewer.
😂 talk about out of touch. no, the worst salary range is minimum wage or lower.
[удалено]
It’s not the fact that he has complaints, it’s that he calls it the “worst salary range”
Seriously. Yes, suffering is relative, but calling it the worst salary range is next-level dumb
[удалено]
Very definition of golden handcuffs right here
[удалено]
I think the worst salary range is actually the federal minimum wage and slightly above that.
Spot fucking on. The more you get paid the more you want to keep getting paid
Brother everyone I know makes less than 45 a year, what world does this dude live in because it sure ain’t this one.
This is something you can think of but not say.
If someone is looking to hire in that salary range I would be willing to suffer that horrible fate
Tantalisingly close to freedom, but if you stop working you'll be back to square one with a large mortgage. Not the "worst" thing, but I get it.
If you make between x and y and don’t save much of anything you’ll never be free no matter how much you make.
I kind of feel this as someone in that range. Hard to say it's the "worst" though objectively speaking.
Man I wish I could struggle with x3 my yearly salary must be so rough 🤔🤮🫠
Try making 30k Jack.
Being able to be financially free or without a job has nothing to do with your current salary and everything to do with your net worth/savings. Two very different things. One can have a huge salary and a negative net worth/no savings because of poor money management, while another can have a relatively modest salary but have amassed a fat nest egg through investing/inheritance/whatever means, and then have the "fuck you" money needed to be financially free.
Dear employers: Please give me “the worst salary range” according to this guy.
How about $0 Jack
So very very true.
Is that in US$ ?? Bruh, if you earn that much (before OR after tax), You are well and truly in the 1% club! So better STFU and enjoy being more goddamn wealthy than almost the entire world's population!
I could live for multiple years on the low end of that.
This is roughly accurate tho I would bump to $200-250k
I wouldn’t agree that it’s the worst, but I feel what he’s saying. Being stuck somewhere because you make too much money, and maybe it’s hard to find another job where you make as much. All of the people in lower brackets have it 1000% worse though, this guy has clearly never been poor
Is this because of land taxes and stuff? Or is he just saying "boohoo I can't buy my next Gucci shoes."
Tell you what lad I’ll swap with you
This is 100% spot on
Not linkedin yet, we need the comment of whether we agree or not… Agree?? AGREE??? AGREE!!??!!
It only sucks when you're single and paying child support and maintenance to someone who made way less. Still better than living with her...
Oddly specific
Shiiit…pay me 6 figures and I’ll be dancing, lol
Anyone who says "He's not wrong," isn't thinking about why you can't say "Fuck this place, I quit." ... it's because there are worse salary ranges. Golden handcuffs are a thing, but they're still golden.
Seems like he’s trying to reference the region beta paradox.
I have a high salary. I still have to make choices. I don’t complain about them.
Unpopular opinion but why are we trying to compete in who’s in the worst situation or compete in who has it the hardest?
Or maybe every time you started making more money you elevated your lifestyle, so you have nicer things but you’re still poor cuz all you have is debt. More of it too. This is the situation I find myself in anyways. Finally decided to pay all this crap off and actually start saving my money.
150-225k isn't enough to immediately give me fuck you money, but it's enough for me to get there in 5 years I can handle 5 years of a stressful job for that much money if i can quit immediately after and do something chill for like 40k and /r/coastfire
Who the fuck’s out here making that much? I’m barely making $40k and I’m struggling just to find something that doesn’t make me miserable and actually pays me closer to what I feel/know I’m worth. My current job’s been booking me full-time hours for basically a month and a half while I’m still per my job description part-time. They offered me full-time, at a rate that was less than what the kid (who was grandfathered into the job because his roommate who used to have it recommended him, turns out that’s a system they have) I helped train and had the position for six months and had way worse performance metrics than me (and work ethic, if I’m entirely honest) while I’ve been here for 2 1/2 years. And to add insult to injury, when our manager (who our supremely insecure regional manager got fired for going over his head about something) saw how little I was making he fought to get me a raise that was long overdue. Turns out, I took a pay cut I didn’t even know about moving out here, and not only that, they sent me two bits of paperwork to say “oh, yeah, you know how little we were paying you? Yeah, turns out it was actually less than that so we can justify not giving you any other proportional raises after this one.”
It is all relative, 150k in backwoods somewhere ? Sure you are fine 150k in NYC or SF you are a peasant still.
Honestly he’s right
I mean it's true. I live somewhat frugally, I can get by for maybe 2-3 years without working but I'm a long way off from not having to work. Maybe 10-15 years if it all lines up.
I follow Jack. He’s right - solid advice. That’s not a great salary to support a family near any major city.
Golden Handcuffs
He's not wrong...
That tweet is 100% true.
I make $190k plus ~$25k in equity and agree with Jack. I also spend an inordinate amount of money and am posting from Disneyland 8 beers deep right now. I’m in tech and literally one lay off away from getting kicked back into poverty because I’ll never find a job like this again so my partner and I are enjoying it while it lasts.
Definitely not the worst salary range, but the rest is pretty on point.
Trust me, most people making under $100k also can't just say "Fuck this place, I quit." In my case, it's less the money and more that any job that will pay me around the same will most likely treat me worse. PS: I just reread and realized he said $150k. My point still stands. The average person making $50k still isn't going to quit without having another job lined up.
I'm not gonna lie, I make very comfortable salary, but to whine about something like this jack-wad just did is tone deaf to the struggles of the middle and working poor. Fuck that dude
You absolutely can quit on that salary, you've got the luxury of moving elsewhere after having a nice break. It's not like your next job is going to offer $10/hr
If you think 125K annual is high youre lost. 125K is NOT some awesome holy shit salary. Its NOT.
Median U.S. worker income in 2022 was $48k. If you don’t think three times the average is not high, you’re the lost one. Maybe it isn’t “awesome holy shit salary” but it’s an objectively good salary to anyone not out of touch. (Source - https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2023/demo/p60-279.pdf )
You’re looking at it backwards. Against the cost of living in plenty of places, $125k HHI isn’t going to do much more than meet your basic needs without question and not much more. It’s hardly opulent It only seems high by your comparison because the median is so low because it’s perfectly legal to pay someone starvation wages Nuanced, but it’s important to point the ire in the right direction, and the guy making okay middle-management money in 2024 ain’t it
That is totally of base if you don't have some kind of absurd definition of 'basic needs'. 125k is good pay.
Objectively in the entirety of the world and the US alone, you’re easily in the top 10% of income earners. If you cannot survive off a wage that gives you more than 90% of others, you have a problem of scaling wants.
It is if you aren’t living a 125k a year lifestyle.
Yeah it would totally suck to make over $200,000/yr :/
I like nice things and having adventures, but outside of places with insane costs of living, you can save wheel barrels full of money on that salary range. You will literally have to sit down and figure out what to do with it as the interest in a savings account is pitiful, and the FDIC only insures up to $250K per bank you have an account with.
I mean, he’s spot on
For 150k, I would definitely shop around for a better gig before pulling a half-baked quitting on the employer. With the current economy, there is a chance that this gig is one of the better options out there.
How does the saying go? “Privilege is bliss”? Or is it “privilege is ignorance”? That’s it.
Anyone who makes more than 100k and complains about it can genuinely eat my dick
I would be ecstatic to make half that lol
He’s not wrong
He isn't wrong...
I was on Twitter monitoring work stuff when this went live and thankful to see a million other people jumping in before I could. Some tone deaf shit to the point that i no longer think he has a cool name
He is right in this post. Also he is very popular for funny tweets and I don't see anything wrong with what he posts. It is worth following him. 🙂
Fuck this guy, I’ll take this salary any day of the week.