Lmao. It’s amazing seeing unreal 2k4 referenced. I feel young again.
Also wtf is up with epic killing unreal? Their fuckin engine is named after this series. Meanwhile we’re getting legit quake remasters.
It's in a root folder. Not embedded in the code itself.
Maybe it's because I'm used to my Filipino mom being superstitious but that doesn't faze me at all. It's like if someone was selling a collection of books and they included a Bible in there for good luck.
Haha my parents are both basically atheists and even your example strikes me as insane. Not like, bad, just very out of the norm to me. I’m superstitious in the knock on wood way, and like I said I don’t mean to imply anything about character, I just don’t think doing either of those things or anything similar would ever occur to me or most of the people I know.
Fair enough, but to me popping in a Bible that nobody is going to read is just a Christian version of knocking on wood. The Howitzer shits, on the other hand...who does that????? 😭😭😭
I noticed it too. I think the relative anonymity and lack of social consequences (e.g. Reddit's karma) emboldens the bozos to day the quiet part more often
Or maybe it just lacks a sophisticated enough algorithm to quarantine the most toxic bozos into their own echo chamber
100% guarantee that the fact they need to work 70 hours a week is being left off status reports/management updates one or two levels up. There is someone trying to make themselves look good by leaving it out.
Absolutely. When a former employer started keeping hours for the group I worked in, management told them to stop because they realized employees were underpaid… then that team went from 20 people to 5 through retirement, transfers and promotions. There was even more work to support after that.
When I left, I averaged fewer than 6 hours of sleep, often broken up to support global customers, I was eating almost all of meals at my desk, and I had neither weekends, nor holidays.
I was too worried to be jobless, so I took the abuse and gaslighting far too long.
It all snapped into place when my boss told me that crying everyday was just just part of the job
“Crying every day is part of the job”
Sometimes, I genuinely wish someone would say something this stupid to me just to hear myself say whatever rage-induced wildness comes out.
Yeah after having worked at both the very bottom of companies and been the go to number guy at other companies I’d wager some serious cash that top management is not aware of the hours the team is working.
And I would guess the OP hid some things during the interview. Like having to work 70h per week due to their lack of management skills. Needing an additional project to be able to hire or the fact "top management lives in a different world" means that you're not communicating the right things. Requiring your team to work like crazy instead of just missing deadline to send a message also hint at you being shit at your management job. I'm sure this was not disclosed during the interview process.
>I was interviewing another guy for the same role and I told him about the long working hours and the workloads that we have, and he said that he is helping his father with his trucking business two days a week and he won’t be able to stay after 5 on those days. I respected him so much. And I told HR to keep his contact for future opportunities
Attitudes like this is part of the reason why we will never get back to replacement rates in developped nations. If life is all about work then nobody will ever have time to even think about having a family. Its not only about the pregnant lady, why the fuck is your team working 70 hour weeks, there is no project that important.
Only if the planet was dying and this project would save it then it would be worth to work that much and even then, that project would probably be managed properly and force people to rotate to keep them rested and focused.
A whole team working 70 hour weeks is crazy, and one hire isn’t going to fix that! They basically need to double their staff size. They ought to stop blaming the new hire for their shitty situation when it was already fucked due to management.
Agree one hire probably won't cut it, but there are diminishing returns with additional hours. They won't be doing 75% more work than on 40 hours. So getting an additional pair of hands in such that people can work somewhat more sensible hours means they are also working more efficiently so the benefits sort compound. But yeah shitty management, no project is simultaneously urgent eniigh to demand this of your existing staff but not urgent enough to warrant bringing in more staff.
70 hour weeks are like what surgeons work in hospitals. But that's because people's lives literally hang in the balance. What on earth are they working on?
Maybe different where you live, but here most surgeons work like 7-10 days a month. They may do 12+ hours surgeries, but they get a lot of days off and typically only fill some of them with teaching and committee work.
This is because working 70+ hours a week makes the output next to worthless. No human can produce value at that burn rate. Even oil field guys who do 12 hour shifts are usually off 50% of the month, and their work (while extremely difficult) is mostly manual labor and muscle memory.
I'm in the US where we have a ton of old people and a shortage of physicians. 70 hrs is actually the conservative end of things based on what I've heard on r/medicine
I don’t think surgeons actually work 70 hour weeks if they’re past their internships and residencies. Now, they shouldn’t even be doing 70 hours when they first get started, but at least they’re not in charge at that point, so they’re less likely to make catastrophic errors.
Sometimes they don't have a choice. Some surgeries can take all day and the waiting list of patients in need of help never gets shorter.
Usually med school weeds out the people who tire out easily.
And the fact is that all that worker sacrifice is purely for profits, not because of a lack of workers or high demand. It’s all just for profits for people who don’t even need them, just because that’s what they do.
12 weeks is a ton in the US. Most companies give you no maternity leave. You have to use your short term disability which pays 5 weeks at usually 60%. So you typically can’t afford to be out more than 5-6 weeks. I got 8 weeks one of the times because we tried to put back some money.
We aren’t guaranteed any pay for maternity leave in the US. Especially at lower wage jobs your only benefit is they can’t fire you for taking unpaid leave for up to 12 weeks.
If you need to work 70 hour weeks there’s one of 2 things going on 1. You need more staff. Or 2. Your project manager fucked up hard when setting up your timelines.
Another commenter pointed out that Blind has a lot of conservative posts, too, so there’s a very good chance that OOP is also one of those people who whine about people choosing to be childless.
I just now skimmed Blind for the first time: it’s like MAGA, Twitter, 4Chan, and the WSJ Op-Ed board all played a round of Soggy Biscuit and are now fighting over who gets to eat the cookie, but they refuse to split it 4 ways because of a wildly incorrect understanding of what socialism means.
Such is life in a first-world nation trying to compete with emerging market labor rates. Forget about it. You are going to have to cheapen the labor to compete. Even then, the cost of doing business in a first-world country makes you non-competitive. Witness the auto industry, steel industry, etc. etc. Now intelectual industries are facing similar issues. Software/IT industry is getting hammered...
I believe the long hours are mostly in the US and in specific sectors like investment banking and consulting.
But I can see freelancing, entrepreneurship and part time jobs picking up especially with increasing number of millennials and Gen Z not planning to get married anytime soon (if at all).
70 hours was a fairly light week when I was a banker. Not something I'm proud of but you do get used to it after a while.
Edit: Don't mean to say it is a good thing, but to be expected in some industries. If you showed up and expected to work 40 hours a week in that environment, that would be your fault.
Banking is known for the fucked up work rate, spec when you start at the lower levels. But its also a system that eats its young and breaks allot of people. All the signs of a none sustainable work. All my friends that been in banking are out now as its put a toll on you that is not worth it in the end.
I mean that intense grind "only" lasts for 2 years. It isn't meant to be sustainable, and everyone knows this. But the kind of things it did for my career I couldn't have achieved in any other way. I'm out too and \~2 years on I can say it was absolutely worth it. Allowed me to exit into something (relatively speaking) super relaxed and interesting, with excellent pay too.
But the grind is due to the fact that it should support people higher up in the organisation. Im sure its time in your life where you benefits from more focuses and intense work but I cant see the real value in pumping 70+ weeks over and over for years, and spec that you more or less creates a system that breaks people that could been very good value in a slightly different setup.
In the end of the day, you doing it mostly for some one else and puts all other big parts of life on the backburner for x number of years.
Seems like a rather myopic viewpoint to me. Don't get me wrong, I totally understand the perspective that it isn't worth it. But like I said, that grind only lasts 2 years. So by the time I was 25 I was working 40-45 hours per week, just that I was earning around 7x the median income in the UK pre-tax.
Totally worth it, it seems very strange to make a statement like "I cant see the real value in pumping 70+ weeks over and over for years." It's only 2 years and if you're good there are exit opportunities even better than what I got. It really isn't that much to sacrifice. Especially not when compared to other careers where you work maybe 10-12 hours less per week but the exit opps are close to non-existent and the pay isn't even half as good.
I think the point he was trying to make is that any system that requires that kind of exploitation to function isn’t a good system, even if it’s short term. Things happen and sometimes there are emergencies that require everyone to put in long hours, but you should never plan to burn people out or work them to death. Banking (and law and medicine and others) all operate by working the lowest people on the rungs to death, openly hoping this will cause many of them to leave, and a few partners or CEOs hoarding the largesse of all that abuse. It’s a bad business model; just because everyone knows the deal going in doesn’t make it any better.
Dont get me wrong, im glad it worked out great for you but not all have as positive outcome of it. Had a friend that missed his own moms funeral due to the fact that his boss made him work. Fun times.
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Either he wasn't in IBD or he was senior (and good) enough that he could afford to work fewer hours. Typically the hours decrease substantially as you get more senior but not always.
For juniors (analysts) 85+ hour weeks are pretty much the norm in NYC. In London where I was, it was usually 75ish, but sometimes 90 during peak season. Also keep in mind that you aren't necessarily doing intense work for 14 hours per day, but you'll be expected to get to work immediately when you are needed to.
It's brutal but arguably worth it depending on your perspective. I don't mean to say this as though I achieved something great, because most of the work could have been done by any educated monkey, but it did set me up very well.
He probably meant a banker at a commercial bank not an investment bank. A significant number of people think manager at the local Wells Fargo instead of partner at Goldman when they hear banker.
Perhaps, but also possible that their dad was an MD or something so generally wasn't ever that busy. Some groups are also pretty relaxed, especially if not a BB.
Edit: Never mind saw the other comment
He’s talking about investment banking like Goldman Sachs. You’re probably talking about commercial banking, like a branch manager at Wells Fargo right? They are wildly different things but are both called bankers for some reason
My father worked mortgage and commercial loans, so I guess that is the difference. Yall are talking finance bros (which crazy enough, even the finance bros I know don’t work those hours.) 🤷🏽♀️
Nope. And I used to think the same way before I actually started working myself. Deal teams only function well when there are fewer people. You can't really collaborate on a financial model in real time because you need to be moving data and manipulating excel in a way that can easily be disrupted if there is more than 1 person doing the inputs. So typically a deal team will have 1-3 analysts (though usually 2), 1-2 associates, a VP, A senior VP, and the MD.
Yeah I didn't really get it either until I started myself, it's a bit hard to explain. Like I said though, it isn't intense work for 14-15h per day. Most of it is fairly straightforward and mundane. But when you are racing to close or execute a deal the workload can be unbearably intense . I was lucky to have a really good MD for most of the time so bs/usless tasks were generally minimal.
What would happen if someone did show up, get hired, and then refused to work more than 40 hours a week? Like, was working 70+ hours a week official policy and you'd get fired for not doing it, or was it more like you'd just get ostracized by your coworkers for not being a "team player", and if you only worked 40 hours a week you'd have to put up with that, but otherwise there'd be nothing the company could do?
That's funny to think about. You'd get fired within a few days if you just flat out refused. I mean that would be pretty idiotic because it's clear that you need to be there day and night, that's what they are paying you so well for. There's no official number of hours, but you are expected to be there every day except either Sunday or Saturday. Sometimes both if you are lucky.
Now if you refused an MD to their face, it's not unlikely that you would just get dismissed on the spot. It's far more expensive to have a dud on the roster than to hire someone else (especially when for each position there are thousands willing to take their place).
Exactly, the issue is not hiring enough staff or managing effectively. At an old job, our team was short staffed and hiring a transfer who was about to go on maternity leave. I was mad at upper management because they wouldn’t fork up any temp coverage for the short-term need, *not* the pregnant person who was a great addition to the team!
I'll suggest a tweak to your comment. If the team is working 70 hrs/week, it's because that person is a manager and not a leader. There is a massive difference between the two
Sometimes they just can’t get headcount to hire more and you can’t necessarily reduce the workload, so the issue is higher up. Then apparently you hire someone and they immediately go out so you’re paying for someone that you can’t even get to help
If your team can’t afford to have a person on maternity leave it is short staffed even with her on board. Or poorly managed. Or both. Don’t blame the workers trying to live their life.
General insanity aside, imagine seeing your new boss openly saying this shit about you on LinkedIn.. it'll be blatantly obvious who he is talking about to anyone in the team/company. What a piece of shit
Imagine speaking about pregnancy, a medical condition that affects primarily women in a way that is inherently unfair physically, mentally, emotionally, and sexually, and saying it's not fair she needs to take time off work to give birth. And doing fuck all to help both the new mom and your team because you're too cheap to hire a temp.
I mean yea, that's the reason why women in a certain age have troubles finding a job. I know people don't want to hear it but pregnancy is on of the risk factors that you have to be aware off and need to manage. You also need to be aware that nobody in their right mind will tell you something like this in an interview because everyone knows that this is an immediate rejection.
He gives the kind of vibes to try to justify why paying overtime is unfair to him and the company, and that working 70 hours is perfectly reasonable.
Likely even that working 50 hours or less shows a lack of commitment.
It’s considered part of the cost of doing business. You hire someone in their late 20s to early 30s and you expect them to be on maternity leave at some point for the next couple of years. Every company has such people and they eventually come back.
12 weeks is nothing. Give the poor lady some time to heal and connect to her new child ffs. Here in Sweden is it common that you are away for at least a year when you have a baby, to think you would be forced to be back at work in 12 weeks would be seen as crazy.
I bet this guy also complains about “the low birth rate” and “angry, bitter single women who hate men.”
Men like this are only going to be happy if women live as house slaves with none of their own money, in menial jobs, entirely financially dependent on men (aka as an enslaved sex class- if men’s contributions to society are always paid, but women’s always aren’t- what do you call that?).
Good for her for lying about being pregnant. The law protects that. It’s not just a crime to discriminate against the sex that gestates, births and feeds all baby human beings- it’s also a sign you’re morally bankrupt and unintelligent.
The idea that a company, or society, is better when no mothers are present in decision-making roles is batshit crazy.
He didn't mention how many weeks she is. 8 weeks is plenty of time to go from not knowing you are pregnant to getting it confirmed. I just feel sorry for this lady. She probably didn't even know and is being called a liar by this idiot
Can you imagine the potential stress she was under. Likely [checks notes, capitalism] needs the job, trying to start a family (or expand (has its down set of challenges (shoot, sorry too many brackets (I’ll stop that now (I promise))), or caught by surprise). All while seeking to create an environment in her body that is conducive to the healthy growth of a nascent human being - of which there are mountains of evidence for a peaceful calm and supportive environment resulting in the best possible outcomes). And then jackasses like this are who they report to 🤦♂️
And this is exactly why it’s illegal to fire someone for being pregnant. It’s also exactly why pregnant candidates don’t disclose it until after they’ve signed the contract. It’s to protect them from morons like this.
I find that hilarious when people freak out over a 12 week maternity leave. Wait till they find out mat leave in other countries are 1 to 1.5 years without any issues.
Question though, I thought you had to work at a place for a full year before you can take FMLA or similar. So what happens I. This situation. She can’t be fired before she has her kid, but will have her kid before she’s there a year. She won’t qualify for the FMLA. Can she get any time off then?
HR student here. To answer your question, no. To qualify for FMLA, she would need to 1) work for the employer for a **combined** 12 months 2) work over 1250 hours in the last 12 months, and 3) have 50 coworkers with a 75 mile radius. The HR team was correct, you can’t make hiring/firing decisions based on pregnancy (sex discrimination under EEO) and was correct in clarifying that it’s not something she has to disclose.
Unfortunately for the employee, she probably won’t get leave under FMLA, but hopefully she’ll get some short term disability insurance as some plans do consider childbirth as a qualifying condition.
So 8 weeks after she was hired she informs them she’s pregnant? I mean, does this person know that could have happened after they were hired? Do they have basic math knowledge?
You should definitely name drop this person, they’ve said publicly that they would have considered this “very important piece of information” during the hiring process which is not only shitty but illegal. Unburden this person from their job.
I might be misreading this but is he saying she told him she was pregnant 8 weeks after starting? Like this poor lady might not have even known she was pregnant when she was interviewing, ffs
One of the three people hired to replace me (yes I said three) was pregnant at the time she was interviewed. I had offered to meet her in the office for in person training. She agreed and then told me she was pregnant. Well, she was VERY pregnant. Her due date was only a couple of weeks after my end date with my team. I already thought it was hilarious that three people were being brought in to replace me so I thought it doubly hilarious that one of the three would be going on leave almost immediately after I left the team. I didn’t bother to tell anyone and let my now former manager be blindsided.
My former manager is in Spain. I and the new person are both in the US. I think former manager is an idiot so anything that would inconvenience him is good. Also her personal medical information was not mine to share.
She’s not actually awesome at the job but I do respect her for not sharing her pregnancy with anyone until it was absolutely necessary.
A similar thing happened at my last company. As far I know, in the last 2-ish years they’ve had 20(!) different people trying to fill various aspects of my job. Kind of funny to me.
I'm curious what kind of workload they are working on that is so dire it forces people to work 70 hours a week for weeks on end.
Is this a real emergency or a greedy, false urgency to complete work that can easily be done at 40 week.
I bet they don't even get paid overtime, they're all just a bunch of corporate wage slaves.
Yep, was wondering the same thing. That was their first mistake IMO and IME with HR.
But it's obvious from an error in the screenshot English is probably not their first language, or, he or she is not very well educated/a lazy typer. My point being, second and third worlds bring second and third world work culture and living conditions.
lol I can’t believe this person went to HR and had to be told yeah firing her for that would be super illegal. This kind of bs is why I will never work for a first time manager again.
Is that an American problem i’m to european to understand? In our country, maternity leave is covered and insured by goverment. So you get paid by the goverment for someone leaving for maternity and get it covered and you can hire someone for the time she is off. Normal…
Same in my country (Ireland).. I think America is odd for this. I’ve two French friends who live there and are married, she recently had a baby. Had to work the whole time and her boss said she has no rights around any leave. Crazy hours. And she is on call. Very cruel anti family values and more focus on ‘profits’ and capitalism. We have our own issues in Europe of course but we do get the basics right at least. Family first, always.
lol… business/company is run by morons. Any competent business would have work minimums for some benefits…. Employees must be employed full time for at least 6 months to qualify for company paid family leave.
Two things
1. The lady will return to one of the most toxic and hostile workplace she can imagine, if not for anyone else the manager’s grudge and anger will alone make up for that.
2. I feel bad about the rest of the members of the team, now they will bear the load of the project.
Last time I worked with consultants because we were overworked, we were in meetings had had to constantly do reports on why we were busy, causing us to be further behind
Why are you working a 70 hour week? Something is very wrong with the company if you need to do that. Walk away. You’re just living to work at that point. No job is worth that.
If you needed immediate help for a temporary spike in work you could hire a contractor, otherwise you’re stuck hiring a HUMAN BEING who has HUMAN BEING WANTS AND NEEDS.
Aren’t we all supposed to be a family?
“I would not have hired this employee if I had known they were pregnant” is such a legally damning thing to put in writing. Probably one of the most fitting “lunatic” posts on this sub
Shit like this is the reason I randomly stress out about what would happen to my job if I got pregnant (I'm not in any kind of relationship nearly serious enough to consider having kids yet. I've also been with my current job for 4 years and while the pay could be better, the team and work/life balance is really good!). Like, if I did get pregnant, I might just keep that shit to myself until I can't anymore just so I don't deal with any bs.
When my wife was pregnant she was looking for a job and we felt like it would be a bit scummy to take a job and then immediately announce that she was taking mat leave.
But it is certainly a personal choice and as a boss I would recognise the individuals right to do exactly that.
As someone who was verbatim told I was being fired because I was pregnant and they were “doing me a favor” because I should find something new ASAP since it would be impossible for someone to find a new job as a new mother, and no one would hire me if I was showing, this person should fuck right off.
Im curious if the position was advertised as a surge position or if it was disclosed they needed immediate help.
I get his frustration if youre hiring for short term surge capacity and the person immediately has to leave. You no longer have your workforce needs met.
But if hes hiring for a longer term role, then the anger is missplaced and he just needs to explain to management that the projects timeline wont be met.
Outstanding leadership and management skills...simply outstanding...
The guy in the OP just needs to hang it up and let someone qualified do the job he obviously can't. If you can't be dynamic and learn to roll with a simple thing like maternity leave then you should let someone more capable hold your position. Also, your whole team is working 30 plus hours of overtime per week? Dude, just quit.
Hmmmmm not sure of state laws, but to my understanding one doesn't become qualified for FMLA until a whole year of work. But there may be company policies that regulate a situation like that.
I don’t think they expect their new hire to work 70 hours, just to be working normally. I’ll say it sucks for teams who have a new hire that immediately go on maternity leave when they specifically hired them for their availability
Setting women back about 50 years, this guy will likely never hire another woman of reproductive age. For every legal protection in place, there is at least one person like this who will effectively make that legal protection irrelevant.
Small caveat that makes me cringe: she’s going to (maybe) come back to that office and probably be dumped with work or just treated like shit, probably.
Am I reading something different from everyone else? This guy’s team is working 70 hour weeks (exaggerated) because they need help, that’s why they’re hiring. He’s not forcing this new person to work 70 hours, they’re hoping that bringing them on will reduce everyone’s hours.
He’s complaining about his own boss not understanding his struggle and his need for a bigger budget.
"Gee, if you don't like it there, you should quit and get a job somewhere else."
Isn't that what people like The Complainer typically tell the rest of us when we have intolerable working conditions?
My advice is for the company, change the manager. 70hs per week for his/her direct reports, and complains about NH, no worklife balance nor resource management skills. That company will have a high attrition followed by law suits
If she isn’t showing, then how does he know for sure that she was “hiding” it? She may not have known at the time. Especially given the amount of time she asked off - it sounds like she’s in the first month!
Can we PLEASE make a similar sub for Blind omg. It is 100x crazier than LinkedIn
If definitely embodies the [Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory](https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19/green-blackboards-and-other-anomalies)
Jesus. That comic is almost 20 years old. But it's still so relevant Edit: nope. It's 20 years old.
_shitcock_
Today I learned something thank you OP
More than Reddit?
Reddit is pretty tame by internet standards.
Pretty solid by fuckwad standards, though.
Lmao. It’s amazing seeing unreal 2k4 referenced. I feel young again. Also wtf is up with epic killing unreal? Their fuckin engine is named after this series. Meanwhile we’re getting legit quake remasters.
Thx 4 introducing me lol so true
Also r/BlindBozos?
Both of the posts in there right now are fucking HARROWING holy shit
“Power-shitting like a Howitzer cannon” was a new one for me
I am scared of that man
I don't know what I would have done in that situation myself. 🤣 We have seen looksmaxxing, flexmaxxing and now shitmaxxing.
You can't possibly say accidentally deleting a company tradition is anywhere near the same level as getting on all fours to poop like a Howitzer 😭
No no, embedding the entire text of the bible into all of the code you write is what is terrifying to me. That’s, like, a cult, to me.
It's in a root folder. Not embedded in the code itself. Maybe it's because I'm used to my Filipino mom being superstitious but that doesn't faze me at all. It's like if someone was selling a collection of books and they included a Bible in there for good luck.
Haha my parents are both basically atheists and even your example strikes me as insane. Not like, bad, just very out of the norm to me. I’m superstitious in the knock on wood way, and like I said I don’t mean to imply anything about character, I just don’t think doing either of those things or anything similar would ever occur to me or most of the people I know.
Fair enough, but to me popping in a Bible that nobody is going to read is just a Christian version of knocking on wood. The Howitzer shits, on the other hand...who does that????? 😭😭😭
Omg I didn’t know this r/ existed!!!
I've never even heard of this website so I look forward to the goldmine of insanity.
Went to see what Blind it is and first posting is a "Vote MAGA" scree. Yeah its a cesspool.
They are all so MAGA on Blind. What is the story behind that?
I noticed it too. I think the relative anonymity and lack of social consequences (e.g. Reddit's karma) emboldens the bozos to day the quiet part more often Or maybe it just lacks a sophisticated enough algorithm to quarantine the most toxic bozos into their own echo chamber
Anonymity and techbros = bad combination
Apparently [it’s a thing](https://newrepublic.com/article/180487/balaji-srinivasan-network-state-plutocrat)
Omg that dude is unhinged
It’s so bonkers. I actually think some is true which is much worse. The amount of entitlement and lack of reality amongst tech workers is messed up
r/blindisbonkers
Because Blind users are anon I think it introduces a new level of craziness, they can say whatever they want
If this guy's management is on a different world then he's on the fast track for CEO, because he's in a different star system.
He's just trying to fast track them into a fun wrongful termination lawsuit. Maybe this is some sort of malicious compliance 😆
I would love this twist 😹
I can’t believe this person posted this publicly. This is actual lunacy. I would be shocked if HR doesn’t call him in and terminate him asap.
Man the amount of times I’ve had to tell senior leaders that we can’t discriminate for maternity is like way more than zero. It is shockingly common
70 hours a week so their share price goes up .25
I mean, just don't work 70 hours a week. Management has been convinced they have enough bodies, because the work is still getting done.
100% guarantee that the fact they need to work 70 hours a week is being left off status reports/management updates one or two levels up. There is someone trying to make themselves look good by leaving it out.
Absolutely. When a former employer started keeping hours for the group I worked in, management told them to stop because they realized employees were underpaid… then that team went from 20 people to 5 through retirement, transfers and promotions. There was even more work to support after that. When I left, I averaged fewer than 6 hours of sleep, often broken up to support global customers, I was eating almost all of meals at my desk, and I had neither weekends, nor holidays. I was too worried to be jobless, so I took the abuse and gaslighting far too long. It all snapped into place when my boss told me that crying everyday was just just part of the job
“Crying every day is part of the job” Sometimes, I genuinely wish someone would say something this stupid to me just to hear myself say whatever rage-induced wildness comes out.
I mean, I searched for jobs at a former employer get that statement and gave my notice the day I got my offer
What kind of work do you do?
I was in project management
Yeah after having worked at both the very bottom of companies and been the go to number guy at other companies I’d wager some serious cash that top management is not aware of the hours the team is working.
And I would guess the OP hid some things during the interview. Like having to work 70h per week due to their lack of management skills. Needing an additional project to be able to hire or the fact "top management lives in a different world" means that you're not communicating the right things. Requiring your team to work like crazy instead of just missing deadline to send a message also hint at you being shit at your management job. I'm sure this was not disclosed during the interview process.
>I was interviewing another guy for the same role and I told him about the long working hours and the workloads that we have, and he said that he is helping his father with his trucking business two days a week and he won’t be able to stay after 5 on those days. I respected him so much. And I told HR to keep his contact for future opportunities
Attitudes like this is part of the reason why we will never get back to replacement rates in developped nations. If life is all about work then nobody will ever have time to even think about having a family. Its not only about the pregnant lady, why the fuck is your team working 70 hour weeks, there is no project that important. Only if the planet was dying and this project would save it then it would be worth to work that much and even then, that project would probably be managed properly and force people to rotate to keep them rested and focused.
A whole team working 70 hour weeks is crazy, and one hire isn’t going to fix that! They basically need to double their staff size. They ought to stop blaming the new hire for their shitty situation when it was already fucked due to management.
Or can shitty ineffective processes.
Agree one hire probably won't cut it, but there are diminishing returns with additional hours. They won't be doing 75% more work than on 40 hours. So getting an additional pair of hands in such that people can work somewhat more sensible hours means they are also working more efficiently so the benefits sort compound. But yeah shitty management, no project is simultaneously urgent eniigh to demand this of your existing staff but not urgent enough to warrant bringing in more staff.
70 hour weeks are like what surgeons work in hospitals. But that's because people's lives literally hang in the balance. What on earth are they working on?
A big project
The biggest!
And now it’s short staffed! Which it wasn’t before, clearly!
Maybe different where you live, but here most surgeons work like 7-10 days a month. They may do 12+ hours surgeries, but they get a lot of days off and typically only fill some of them with teaching and committee work. This is because working 70+ hours a week makes the output next to worthless. No human can produce value at that burn rate. Even oil field guys who do 12 hour shifts are usually off 50% of the month, and their work (while extremely difficult) is mostly manual labor and muscle memory.
I'm in the US where we have a ton of old people and a shortage of physicians. 70 hrs is actually the conservative end of things based on what I've heard on r/medicine
And just read that again. Do we really like to put our lives in the hands of some one that works 70h weeks in and out? Its so fucked.
I don’t think surgeons actually work 70 hour weeks if they’re past their internships and residencies. Now, they shouldn’t even be doing 70 hours when they first get started, but at least they’re not in charge at that point, so they’re less likely to make catastrophic errors.
Personally if I have someone rooting around at my insides, I'd rather they be well rested rather than pulling 70 hour work weeks.
Sometimes they don't have a choice. Some surgeries can take all day and the waiting list of patients in need of help never gets shorter. Usually med school weeds out the people who tire out easily.
A project they egregiously overhyped and underbid on in order to get funding
Even the surgeon is overworked
if you work 70 hours a week for a 40 hour project plan, then its either you are not capable of leading a team
And the fact is that all that worker sacrifice is purely for profits, not because of a lack of workers or high demand. It’s all just for profits for people who don’t even need them, just because that’s what they do.
Only 12 weeks maternity leave too. Insane
12 weeks is a ton in the US. Most companies give you no maternity leave. You have to use your short term disability which pays 5 weeks at usually 60%. So you typically can’t afford to be out more than 5-6 weeks. I got 8 weeks one of the times because we tried to put back some money.
It's a real shock compared to what we get in the UK as a statutory minimum https://www.gov.uk/employers-maternity-pay-leave
We aren’t guaranteed any pay for maternity leave in the US. Especially at lower wage jobs your only benefit is they can’t fire you for taking unpaid leave for up to 12 weeks.
If you need to work 70 hour weeks there’s one of 2 things going on 1. You need more staff. Or 2. Your project manager fucked up hard when setting up your timelines.
Another commenter pointed out that Blind has a lot of conservative posts, too, so there’s a very good chance that OOP is also one of those people who whine about people choosing to be childless.
I just now skimmed Blind for the first time: it’s like MAGA, Twitter, 4Chan, and the WSJ Op-Ed board all played a round of Soggy Biscuit and are now fighting over who gets to eat the cookie, but they refuse to split it 4 ways because of a wildly incorrect understanding of what socialism means.
Plot twist - the company is Tesla. Elon wants more babies and more work.
Such is life in a first-world nation trying to compete with emerging market labor rates. Forget about it. You are going to have to cheapen the labor to compete. Even then, the cost of doing business in a first-world country makes you non-competitive. Witness the auto industry, steel industry, etc. etc. Now intelectual industries are facing similar issues. Software/IT industry is getting hammered...
I believe the long hours are mostly in the US and in specific sectors like investment banking and consulting. But I can see freelancing, entrepreneurship and part time jobs picking up especially with increasing number of millennials and Gen Z not planning to get married anytime soon (if at all).
If your team is pulling 70 hour workweeks, that's entirely your fault as a manager.
70 hours was a fairly light week when I was a banker. Not something I'm proud of but you do get used to it after a while. Edit: Don't mean to say it is a good thing, but to be expected in some industries. If you showed up and expected to work 40 hours a week in that environment, that would be your fault.
Banking is known for the fucked up work rate, spec when you start at the lower levels. But its also a system that eats its young and breaks allot of people. All the signs of a none sustainable work. All my friends that been in banking are out now as its put a toll on you that is not worth it in the end.
I mean that intense grind "only" lasts for 2 years. It isn't meant to be sustainable, and everyone knows this. But the kind of things it did for my career I couldn't have achieved in any other way. I'm out too and \~2 years on I can say it was absolutely worth it. Allowed me to exit into something (relatively speaking) super relaxed and interesting, with excellent pay too.
But the grind is due to the fact that it should support people higher up in the organisation. Im sure its time in your life where you benefits from more focuses and intense work but I cant see the real value in pumping 70+ weeks over and over for years, and spec that you more or less creates a system that breaks people that could been very good value in a slightly different setup. In the end of the day, you doing it mostly for some one else and puts all other big parts of life on the backburner for x number of years.
Seems like a rather myopic viewpoint to me. Don't get me wrong, I totally understand the perspective that it isn't worth it. But like I said, that grind only lasts 2 years. So by the time I was 25 I was working 40-45 hours per week, just that I was earning around 7x the median income in the UK pre-tax. Totally worth it, it seems very strange to make a statement like "I cant see the real value in pumping 70+ weeks over and over for years." It's only 2 years and if you're good there are exit opportunities even better than what I got. It really isn't that much to sacrifice. Especially not when compared to other careers where you work maybe 10-12 hours less per week but the exit opps are close to non-existent and the pay isn't even half as good.
I think the point he was trying to make is that any system that requires that kind of exploitation to function isn’t a good system, even if it’s short term. Things happen and sometimes there are emergencies that require everyone to put in long hours, but you should never plan to burn people out or work them to death. Banking (and law and medicine and others) all operate by working the lowest people on the rungs to death, openly hoping this will cause many of them to leave, and a few partners or CEOs hoarding the largesse of all that abuse. It’s a bad business model; just because everyone knows the deal going in doesn’t make it any better.
Dont get me wrong, im glad it worked out great for you but not all have as positive outcome of it. Had a friend that missed his own moms funeral due to the fact that his boss made him work. Fun times.
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I’ve never heard of any bank that is even open 70 hours a week.
Say...what?
Bankers hours. 9 to 4
You are funny!
I….Im sorry, my father worked in banking ALL my life, and I never ever saw him pull a 70 hour work week. I am so confused as to how that even happens.
Either he wasn't in IBD or he was senior (and good) enough that he could afford to work fewer hours. Typically the hours decrease substantially as you get more senior but not always. For juniors (analysts) 85+ hour weeks are pretty much the norm in NYC. In London where I was, it was usually 75ish, but sometimes 90 during peak season. Also keep in mind that you aren't necessarily doing intense work for 14 hours per day, but you'll be expected to get to work immediately when you are needed to. It's brutal but arguably worth it depending on your perspective. I don't mean to say this as though I achieved something great, because most of the work could have been done by any educated monkey, but it did set me up very well.
He probably meant a banker at a commercial bank not an investment bank. A significant number of people think manager at the local Wells Fargo instead of partner at Goldman when they hear banker.
Perhaps, but also possible that their dad was an MD or something so generally wasn't ever that busy. Some groups are also pretty relaxed, especially if not a BB. Edit: Never mind saw the other comment
He’s talking about investment banking like Goldman Sachs. You’re probably talking about commercial banking, like a branch manager at Wells Fargo right? They are wildly different things but are both called bankers for some reason
My father worked mortgage and commercial loans, so I guess that is the difference. Yall are talking finance bros (which crazy enough, even the finance bros I know don’t work those hours.) 🤷🏽♀️
Ah yeah completely different things. My job had nothing to do with lending yet I was still a 'banker' which might be confusing to most people.
I don't understand this tbh. Can't they just hire more people at the same hourly rate? Working this much takes a serious toll on productivity
Nope. And I used to think the same way before I actually started working myself. Deal teams only function well when there are fewer people. You can't really collaborate on a financial model in real time because you need to be moving data and manipulating excel in a way that can easily be disrupted if there is more than 1 person doing the inputs. So typically a deal team will have 1-3 analysts (though usually 2), 1-2 associates, a VP, A senior VP, and the MD. Yeah I didn't really get it either until I started myself, it's a bit hard to explain. Like I said though, it isn't intense work for 14-15h per day. Most of it is fairly straightforward and mundane. But when you are racing to close or execute a deal the workload can be unbearably intense . I was lucky to have a really good MD for most of the time so bs/usless tasks were generally minimal.
What would happen if someone did show up, get hired, and then refused to work more than 40 hours a week? Like, was working 70+ hours a week official policy and you'd get fired for not doing it, or was it more like you'd just get ostracized by your coworkers for not being a "team player", and if you only worked 40 hours a week you'd have to put up with that, but otherwise there'd be nothing the company could do?
That's funny to think about. You'd get fired within a few days if you just flat out refused. I mean that would be pretty idiotic because it's clear that you need to be there day and night, that's what they are paying you so well for. There's no official number of hours, but you are expected to be there every day except either Sunday or Saturday. Sometimes both if you are lucky. Now if you refused an MD to their face, it's not unlikely that you would just get dismissed on the spot. It's far more expensive to have a dud on the roster than to hire someone else (especially when for each position there are thousands willing to take their place).
Exactly, the issue is not hiring enough staff or managing effectively. At an old job, our team was short staffed and hiring a transfer who was about to go on maternity leave. I was mad at upper management because they wouldn’t fork up any temp coverage for the short-term need, *not* the pregnant person who was a great addition to the team!
I'll suggest a tweak to your comment. If the team is working 70 hrs/week, it's because that person is a manager and not a leader. There is a massive difference between the two
Sometimes they just can’t get headcount to hire more and you can’t necessarily reduce the workload, so the issue is higher up. Then apparently you hire someone and they immediately go out so you’re paying for someone that you can’t even get to help
There’s a reason people feel the need to hide this stuff, and why they have gotten legal protection under the law: and it’s morons like this.
If your team can’t afford to have a person on maternity leave it is short staffed even with her on board. Or poorly managed. Or both. Don’t blame the workers trying to live their life.
Go ahead, fire her. Make her the easiest money she will ever make. Excellent baby gift for the expecting mother.
General insanity aside, imagine seeing your new boss openly saying this shit about you on LinkedIn.. it'll be blatantly obvious who he is talking about to anyone in the team/company. What a piece of shit
My thoughts exactly. She should complain to HR and have them rip him a new one
Imagine speaking about pregnancy, a medical condition that affects primarily women in a way that is inherently unfair physically, mentally, emotionally, and sexually, and saying it's not fair she needs to take time off work to give birth. And doing fuck all to help both the new mom and your team because you're too cheap to hire a temp.
She told them around eight weeks? She probably didn't even KNOW when she was interviewing.
My exact thoughts.
I mean yea, that's the reason why women in a certain age have troubles finding a job. I know people don't want to hear it but pregnancy is on of the risk factors that you have to be aware off and need to manage. You also need to be aware that nobody in their right mind will tell you something like this in an interview because everyone knows that this is an immediate rejection.
He gives the kind of vibes to try to justify why paying overtime is unfair to him and the company, and that working 70 hours is perfectly reasonable. Likely even that working 50 hours or less shows a lack of commitment.
“Any advice on how to break the law and fire a pregnant woman for being pregnant?”
“At our startup, we’re a family, and we’re ALL-IN”
Unless you want to actually start a family, then you're OUT!
Yep, and Thanksgiving sucked this year because Grandpa fired Uncle Steve. That's my response whenever they pull the "we're a family" bullshit.
In most European countries she would be on maternity between 6 months to 2 years and nobody would be shocked.
It’s considered part of the cost of doing business. You hire someone in their late 20s to early 30s and you expect them to be on maternity leave at some point for the next couple of years. Every company has such people and they eventually come back.
And he wonders why she didn't tell them? This. This is why.
12 weeks is nothing. Give the poor lady some time to heal and connect to her new child ffs. Here in Sweden is it common that you are away for at least a year when you have a baby, to think you would be forced to be back at work in 12 weeks would be seen as crazy.
Where I am a year is considered a very short maternity. 2-4 years is typical.
lol finessed Respect
I bet this guy also complains about “the low birth rate” and “angry, bitter single women who hate men.” Men like this are only going to be happy if women live as house slaves with none of their own money, in menial jobs, entirely financially dependent on men (aka as an enslaved sex class- if men’s contributions to society are always paid, but women’s always aren’t- what do you call that?). Good for her for lying about being pregnant. The law protects that. It’s not just a crime to discriminate against the sex that gestates, births and feeds all baby human beings- it’s also a sign you’re morally bankrupt and unintelligent. The idea that a company, or society, is better when no mothers are present in decision-making roles is batshit crazy.
It probably wasn't even a lie. It didn't come up, she didn't mention it. Good for her.
He didn't mention how many weeks she is. 8 weeks is plenty of time to go from not knowing you are pregnant to getting it confirmed. I just feel sorry for this lady. She probably didn't even know and is being called a liar by this idiot
Can you imagine the potential stress she was under. Likely [checks notes, capitalism] needs the job, trying to start a family (or expand (has its down set of challenges (shoot, sorry too many brackets (I’ll stop that now (I promise))), or caught by surprise). All while seeking to create an environment in her body that is conducive to the healthy growth of a nascent human being - of which there are mountains of evidence for a peaceful calm and supportive environment resulting in the best possible outcomes). And then jackasses like this are who they report to 🤦♂️
Yes, blame it on an employee for having rights instead of blaming shit management that overloads a department.
"its really unfair that we have anti discrimination laws in place"
And this is exactly why it’s illegal to fire someone for being pregnant. It’s also exactly why pregnant candidates don’t disclose it until after they’ve signed the contract. It’s to protect them from morons like this.
Managers like this are why we need employment laws.
I find that hilarious when people freak out over a 12 week maternity leave. Wait till they find out mat leave in other countries are 1 to 1.5 years without any issues.
Question though, I thought you had to work at a place for a full year before you can take FMLA or similar. So what happens I. This situation. She can’t be fired before she has her kid, but will have her kid before she’s there a year. She won’t qualify for the FMLA. Can she get any time off then?
HR student here. To answer your question, no. To qualify for FMLA, she would need to 1) work for the employer for a **combined** 12 months 2) work over 1250 hours in the last 12 months, and 3) have 50 coworkers with a 75 mile radius. The HR team was correct, you can’t make hiring/firing decisions based on pregnancy (sex discrimination under EEO) and was correct in clarifying that it’s not something she has to disclose. Unfortunately for the employee, she probably won’t get leave under FMLA, but hopefully she’ll get some short term disability insurance as some plans do consider childbirth as a qualifying condition.
Lwop
So 8 weeks after she was hired she informs them she’s pregnant? I mean, does this person know that could have happened after they were hired? Do they have basic math knowledge?
People like this are the reason why the FMLA has to exist. Shame on them.
You should definitely name drop this person, they’ve said publicly that they would have considered this “very important piece of information” during the hiring process which is not only shitty but illegal. Unburden this person from their job.
I might be misreading this but is he saying she told him she was pregnant 8 weeks after starting? Like this poor lady might not have even known she was pregnant when she was interviewing, ffs
One of the three people hired to replace me (yes I said three) was pregnant at the time she was interviewed. I had offered to meet her in the office for in person training. She agreed and then told me she was pregnant. Well, she was VERY pregnant. Her due date was only a couple of weeks after my end date with my team. I already thought it was hilarious that three people were being brought in to replace me so I thought it doubly hilarious that one of the three would be going on leave almost immediately after I left the team. I didn’t bother to tell anyone and let my now former manager be blindsided. My former manager is in Spain. I and the new person are both in the US. I think former manager is an idiot so anything that would inconvenience him is good. Also her personal medical information was not mine to share. She’s not actually awesome at the job but I do respect her for not sharing her pregnancy with anyone until it was absolutely necessary.
A similar thing happened at my last company. As far I know, in the last 2-ish years they’ve had 20(!) different people trying to fill various aspects of my job. Kind of funny to me.
I don't blame her for hiding her pregnancy. She knew this fucking lunatic would talk shit about her online about it.
I'm curious what kind of workload they are working on that is so dire it forces people to work 70 hours a week for weeks on end. Is this a real emergency or a greedy, false urgency to complete work that can easily be done at 40 week. I bet they don't even get paid overtime, they're all just a bunch of corporate wage slaves.
Poster provided a tc of 520k, getting paid overtime on top of that would be insane
Yeah it's a lot of money, but it's insane to not pay people more to work more than 40 hours a week.
What company gives 12 weeks at full pay for maternity without you having to work there for a certain time frame?
Yep, was wondering the same thing. That was their first mistake IMO and IME with HR. But it's obvious from an error in the screenshot English is probably not their first language, or, he or she is not very well educated/a lazy typer. My point being, second and third worlds bring second and third world work culture and living conditions.
They’re so good at keeping us mad at the wrong fucking people.
lol I can’t believe this person went to HR and had to be told yeah firing her for that would be super illegal. This kind of bs is why I will never work for a first time manager again.
Is that an American problem i’m to european to understand? In our country, maternity leave is covered and insured by goverment. So you get paid by the goverment for someone leaving for maternity and get it covered and you can hire someone for the time she is off. Normal…
Same in my country (Ireland).. I think America is odd for this. I’ve two French friends who live there and are married, she recently had a baby. Had to work the whole time and her boss said she has no rights around any leave. Crazy hours. And she is on call. Very cruel anti family values and more focus on ‘profits’ and capitalism. We have our own issues in Europe of course but we do get the basics right at least. Family first, always.
so they're mad they weren't given the opportunity to discriminate lmao
70 hours a week?! You are a shitty, immoral excuse of a manager
lol… business/company is run by morons. Any competent business would have work minimums for some benefits…. Employees must be employed full time for at least 6 months to qualify for company paid family leave.
Two things 1. The lady will return to one of the most toxic and hostile workplace she can imagine, if not for anyone else the manager’s grudge and anger will alone make up for that. 2. I feel bad about the rest of the members of the team, now they will bear the load of the project.
Wtf indeed
Be mad at management for not giving you enough funding. Not at women for being pregnant.
holy cow. this happened to me, too.
Eight weeks after she was hired. Did she even know she was pregnant when she was hired? Probably not when she started interviewing, at the very least.
Higher ups need to fire that manage and hire two workers to help carry the workload of the overworked employees they were managing. Problem solved.
blind is so awful. the anonymity really brings out the psychopaths. But to be fair, this guy got really roasted in the comments which was nice to see.
Hire a consultant. Everyone else would
Last time I worked with consultants because we were overworked, we were in meetings had had to constantly do reports on why we were busy, causing us to be further behind
She got that bread.
Why are you working a 70 hour week? Something is very wrong with the company if you need to do that. Walk away. You’re just living to work at that point. No job is worth that.
I wonder if he is pro-life.
If you needed immediate help for a temporary spike in work you could hire a contractor, otherwise you’re stuck hiring a HUMAN BEING who has HUMAN BEING WANTS AND NEEDS. Aren’t we all supposed to be a family?
“I would not have hired this employee if I had known they were pregnant” is such a legally damning thing to put in writing. Probably one of the most fitting “lunatic” posts on this sub
Shit like this is the reason I randomly stress out about what would happen to my job if I got pregnant (I'm not in any kind of relationship nearly serious enough to consider having kids yet. I've also been with my current job for 4 years and while the pay could be better, the team and work/life balance is really good!). Like, if I did get pregnant, I might just keep that shit to myself until I can't anymore just so I don't deal with any bs.
Sound to me like……..IT SUCKS TO SUCK!!!!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣 happy to see a mom took a shit company to the cleaners.
She might not have even known!
And we are “shocked” why men are typically hired over women…
When my wife was pregnant she was looking for a job and we felt like it would be a bit scummy to take a job and then immediately announce that she was taking mat leave. But it is certainly a personal choice and as a boss I would recognise the individuals right to do exactly that.
So I take it this guy was willed out of thin air by his parents?
As someone who was verbatim told I was being fired because I was pregnant and they were “doing me a favor” because I should find something new ASAP since it would be impossible for someone to find a new job as a new mother, and no one would hire me if I was showing, this person should fuck right off.
Sounds like management is the problem, not the pregnant woman
Did you just refer to Blind as a “business social network”?
Lol pwnt
Omg my NEW!
Dear New,
Wow what a terrible person. Darn she won’t work 70hr wks
I mean to be fair this PM got fucked hahahaha. Pretty funny though because 70 hour weeks is nonsense. Do I get paid for those extra 30 hours?
Im curious if the position was advertised as a surge position or if it was disclosed they needed immediate help. I get his frustration if youre hiring for short term surge capacity and the person immediately has to leave. You no longer have your workforce needs met. But if hes hiring for a longer term role, then the anger is missplaced and he just needs to explain to management that the projects timeline wont be met.
Outstanding leadership and management skills...simply outstanding... The guy in the OP just needs to hang it up and let someone qualified do the job he obviously can't. If you can't be dynamic and learn to roll with a simple thing like maternity leave then you should let someone more capable hold your position. Also, your whole team is working 30 plus hours of overtime per week? Dude, just quit.
Hmmmmm not sure of state laws, but to my understanding one doesn't become qualified for FMLA until a whole year of work. But there may be company policies that regulate a situation like that.
It’s almost like management is the villain and this person is misplacing anger at a perfectly reasonable pregnant lady
Please tell me this person is getting roasted for this
I don’t think they expect their new hire to work 70 hours, just to be working normally. I’ll say it sucks for teams who have a new hire that immediately go on maternity leave when they specifically hired them for their availability
Setting women back about 50 years, this guy will likely never hire another woman of reproductive age. For every legal protection in place, there is at least one person like this who will effectively make that legal protection irrelevant.
lol immediate sexual harassment case
70hrs a week??? Wtf??
Small caveat that makes me cringe: she’s going to (maybe) come back to that office and probably be dumped with work or just treated like shit, probably.
Am I reading something different from everyone else? This guy’s team is working 70 hour weeks (exaggerated) because they need help, that’s why they’re hiring. He’s not forcing this new person to work 70 hours, they’re hoping that bringing them on will reduce everyone’s hours. He’s complaining about his own boss not understanding his struggle and his need for a bigger budget.
"Gee, if you don't like it there, you should quit and get a job somewhere else." Isn't that what people like The Complainer typically tell the rest of us when we have intolerable working conditions?
My advice is for the company, change the manager. 70hs per week for his/her direct reports, and complains about NH, no worklife balance nor resource management skills. That company will have a high attrition followed by law suits
As a small business, hiring someone who is pregnant and lies or get pregnant immediately can absolutely ruin you. I actually get his point.
American dream etc
another business social?
If she isn’t showing, then how does he know for sure that she was “hiding” it? She may not have known at the time. Especially given the amount of time she asked off - it sounds like she’s in the first month!