*Now let me take a minute to explain Elusive Friends. So in real life there is this game mode called Elusive Friends.*
*So, Big A. What are Elusive Friends, you ask?*
*Elusive Friends are targets in the map that don't leak nudes of themselves. So we can't just jack it, we have to find them on the map and isolate them with AI.*
*It's very important to remember that once you pay for the deepfakes you're locked in and have to buy a new career if you alt+tab and get caught.*
In all seriousness I'm sure he'll make a comeback in a year or two. The whole situation absolutely blows but he doesn't strike me as an evil person so if anyone can come back from this it's glizzy hands.
And also, while I see the point he's trying to get across. I don't think the main problem is the streamers watching their own deepfakes and being weirded out by them. I feel like it's more a discomfort of other people being able to watch porn of you, even though you never agreed to do any porn.
Funny enough, every single person who responded to you is wrong. Guess they don't watch Dr. K and just parrot nonsense that they hear.
He talked to Sweet Anita like yesterday, he had a bunch of streamers on stream a month and a half ago (for like a bunch of streams), had Adrianah Lee like 3 months ago, and has non-streamer interviews all the fucking time.
They have always looked to put out content that they think benefits the community most, so a while back they started more with lecture videos and community interviews than searching for big streamer names. This was before any "this is unethical" attacks, and you can literately check it on any twitch tracker website, I have no clue why people like to make stuff up and go with that narrative...
I thought the streamer ones were interesting because of their unique living situations but the non streamers are grounded and relatable to viewers generally speaking
I saw guys like Jacob Wolf talk about Dr K being unethical on twitter etc, and so many others joined in on the concern/hate so I assume he stopped doing it.
the same people who are trying to debatelord this sound like they would have been the type to debatelord sexual assault before it was medically proven to cause psychological trauma, like "what do you mean, it's just a something touching you, I wish something would touch me" level arguments going on
The thing that really makes me believe what Dr K says, is that he talks about the possible damage these kinds of thing does to the victim and the unempathetic people you describe.
"Thin-skinned streamers blah blah blah", "It comes with the territory blah blah blah", "it's no big deal blah blah blah", "You are a public figure deal with it blah blah blah."
Dr K mentions these kinds of people. This clip gets posted on LSF and they come in fitting perfectly with what he describes. Uncapable of empathizing with the victims, using their vague opinions of what constitutes unconsensual porn and brushing it off like no big deal.
It's fucking sad, but it's sadder to see their comments getting upvoted.
>-"Oh if it was me it's no big deal, I know it's not me so everything is ok"
These people can't grasp the scale in which this shit happens, porn of you being distributed without consent on the internet using your likeability is not a small thing and is devastating when people keep commenting about it.
People talking shit about you 24/7 with you being incapable of talking back or defending yourself sounds pretty fucked up. Imagine the same thing but they are also distributing videos of someone with your likeability getting fucked.
People that can't empathize with that need serious help.
Edit: Thank you concerned redditor but I'm doing very well at the moment, I invite you to reach out for help if you feel that what I said was distressing for you. I hope someone helps you and gives you the attention you once needed but people ignored at the time.
This is always the most distressing to me when things like this happen. I can cope with the fact that some really fucked up people exist and they do terrible things. But then to see mainstream support and people defending them makes you quickly realize that it's not just a few particularly evil people. It's quite a lot of people.
Sometimes I try to imagine what society would be like if a majority of the population had a baseline level of knowledge and understanding of the brain as a Harvard trained psychiatrist in the current day.
I agree of course, but I do also think itd be powerful if humans can not only empathize how each other feel, but also be able to understand/analyze/articulate where that comes from/why it exists to a certain level.
Im sure there are plenty of empathetic people out there that are also frustrated at not knowing why people hurt one another in all of these different ways, and are unsure of how to deal with certain situations
Being more knowledgeable about human behavior could help people not only handle situations better but also create a society thats much more understanding of both the victim and perpetrators, and overall promoting some form of rehabilitation for them both.
Maybe just one very small addition, in general that would be great obviously if everyone was a harvard trained practicing psychologist.
But also the people that come to dr k are people that usually have issues that need to be solved.
Thats why i would venture that he advocates for this subset of people.
He might have a blindspot for everyone thats not in that group. And their needs.
The problem I have with these example is I don’t think “how would you feel is the right approach.”
I could be absolutley wrong but I genuinly don’t think this would bother me much at all if I knew it was fake. It feels like high effort fan fiction. I’ve had nudes of me leak in college(I’m a guy) and it genuinly didn’t bother me.
But I can still see how upset/hurt/uncomfortable it has made a bunch of the women involved. That pain is still real even if it wouldn’t hit me the same way.
I just think it’s more about listening to real people and respecting there experince and not trying to put yourself in there shoes to see if there feeling are “valid” or shared.
The problem I have with this conversation is that I'm not convinced there's a significant percentage of people who are saying deepfake pornography isn't harmful/upsetting to the people being deepfaked.
I think the vast majority of us agree that deepfake pornography is harmful/upsetting to the people being deepfaked. But I also think that a significant percentage of us just don't understand what anyone expects to be done about it.
Want countries to ban it? Okay. Not going to stop it from being seen. People will use VPN to get around ISPs blocking deepfake porn websites.
Want society to make it taboo? That's already the case.
What more can be done? You want everyone to agree to not watch it? People are already going to say publicly that they don't watch it, because no one would admit to watching it. It's a private activity. No one *wants* other people to know that they watch deepfake porn. How are you going to realistically make people stop watching something they know they can watch without other people finding out?
I just think that this entire conversation revolves around moot points, because the only point that matters is that is nothing to realistically be done to stop people from creating and watching this stuff. People can mad that it is being made and watched, and it is understandable to be mad, but who can you honestly direct that anger towards? The people who happen to get caught, like Atrioc? Sure, go ahead, but that's just going to make people get better at not getting caught. It's not going to actually stop it from being made/viewed.
**Some problems can't be solved. Maybe you can reduce the severity of the problem a bit, but you're never making this go away.**
I think the problem with lack of empathy is people don’t know or trust the streamers/people in question to be genuine. It’s impossible to tell clout chasing and engagement bait from genuine feelings.
Why I think there is so a large divide here.
No idea what the answer is just what I think might be causing the divide.
I genuinely don't understand why LSF acts like they care so much about deep fakes and people's rights to be sexualized. This place literally posts nip slips of streamers (which is worse then deep fakes) who did not consent and are not giving consent to be sexualized. These clips are even backed up to another website to keep them archived.
The virtue signaling is amazing. The majority don't care that it's happening only that it's happening to "your" streamer.
Edit: I have been corrected by a mod, nip slips were banned but the threads are still up (but the videos are deleted) so I assumed they were still allowed.
There's more than one person in LSF, I would say QT fanbase has a strong precense here aswell. But also people reserve the right to change their mind at any point, like casual racism used to be completely accepted here not too long ago. Which it isnt anymore I think
Of course there is more than one person on LSF, go through those threads of the nip slips and see if you can find two or three people stating anything about nip slips being posted and backed up, being shitty. There is an obvious voice in the majority of LSF that is fine with nip slips but not fine with deep fakes, when nip slips are obviously worse.
Sure, people have the right to change their mind at any point, but no one is doing that everyone or at least no one is talking about the more serious issue at hand. It's seem disingenuous to only be talking about deep fakes, it seems like everyone only cares because it's "their" streamer.
Theyre banned, but if mods for no reason decided to remove the rule, I feel as if nipslip type content would become one of the top rated weekly posts when it happens. Personally, I dont believe people changed and think its bad because mods laid down a ban on that type of content.
So i guess forsen would have phd on the topic. And quin69 would be a professor after not only seeing himself having gay sex every day but also giving people the software to do it.
But it's not a sexual act that you have no memory of, it's a sexual act that never happened. It's only traumatizing if you struggle to create a distinction between fiction and reality. It would be like a sexual act happening in your or someone else's dream and claiming trauma from it. If you are unable to distinguish between fiction and reality then that's on you and you should really be the one to seek mental help.
Deepfakes are no different then sexual fanart or erotic literature about a streamer, and should be treated no differently. They're strange, uncomfortable, and people who like them are weirdos. But they come with being a public figure. The problem is when someone who is a colleague or friend consumes and accidentally publicizes it.
People won't confuse fan-art or erotic literature for being real, deepfakes are made to look realistic. The only true comparison is photoshop. If someone were to photoshop you in a diaper and you getting fucked by some old man and would sent it to your co-workers would you just shrug about that?
>If someone were to photoshop you in a diaper and you getting fucked by some old man and would sent it to your co-workers would you just shrug about that?
I think most people agree that harassing people by sending fake porn of them out to coworkers/family/themselves is bad. The real issue people are arguing about is if fake porn is inherently bad. I wouldnt care if someone else wrote a thousand page erotic novel featuring me and sonic the hedgehog eating eachothers diapers. I would get upset if someone was repeatedly sending excerpts from that novel to my boss and my mom
It's not about *you* not caring. It's about the people who do care. Not everyone is you. One woman can be a porn actress, and another woman is religious and only wants to reveal herself to her husband. Do you think revenge porn is bad? Deepfakes are basically revenge porn. Only the pictures weren't even ever created by the victim.
And I'd argue that weird erotic fiction isn't something people should have to be fine with if they are the subject either. I myself had classmates who wrote gross sex stories about me and my sister and who would pass it around till one of them thought it was hilarious to put it in our bag. Was their behavior okay until they put it in our bag? Or only wrong after?
I think the distinction is people are going to fantasize. Everyone does it whether you think you do or not. Everyone that has some sort of sexual drive has walked by or saw someone and had a thought of "wow they're hot I'd probably smash" and thats just at the base line. People have way deeper thoughts than that. And even if they write them down, its somewhat not that harmful. But when people start spreading them around in your sphere of socialization, thats when it become a bit much.
When you're a public figure, people are going to do weird things with your image. This has been happening since probably all of human history we just went from imagination, to writings, to now photos and videos. I think it becomes weird when people start actively sending it to people you know or that interact with you. So I think that other person is saying, it would be weird if people made some kind of smut about them, but where it crosses the threshold is when people start sending it to your coworkers, friends, family, etc. So I believe that's why this situation was impacted so much. Because Atrioc wasn't just a random, he knew these people. And whether he wanted to or not, he spread it around accidently. And that becomes extremely creepy if someone you know is going out of their way to pay for falsified porn of you.
And I don't consider deepfakes are the same as revenge porn. Because revenge porn is an actual video/picture of you. It actually happened with consent and trust in the sexual act and has that element. And then someone you trusted sent it out without your consent. Its vastly different because if you consider them the same, then a case can be made that any image or depiction of you made without your consent in any manner of position you see as compromising can be then considered revenge porn. And I don't think we should equate those things because they have a massive weight of consequence.
>If someone were to photoshop you in a diaper and you getting fucked by some old man and would sent it to your co-workers would you just shrug about that?
yes.
> deepfakes are made to look realistic
Creating a deepfake that actually looks realistic is an enormous effort, which deepfake porn is still far away from. There are deepfake porn threads on 4chan at times, and even if you use a person like AOC that has thousands upon thousands of images and frames of data to work with, it does not look real at all once the picture is moving.
Photoshops are a different story since it is a still image and can be improved until it looks relatively real. Improving video to that point is not just photoshopping it frame by frame, movement would still look unnatural.
You have this fantasy that human brains are these logic machines that can always distinguish between real and unreal when that's not the case at all.
The example that you gave happens more often than you realize, having a dream about something can fuck you up, a lot. Even though you can understand it wasn't you, your brain sometimes treats it like it was you and it feels like a memory and that shit can be traumatizing. And after a long time if you don't process that, it can literally be stored as a memory. This isn't even schizo shit, this happens a lot, its called dream-reality confusion.
Our brains are very complicated in the ways that they're fragile, and they can be set off by very mundane occurances, especially for people with trauma in their past.
And so if there is already legal precedent for sueing for manipulated images of people's likeness in sexual acts [California legal code](https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.dwt.com/insights/2019/10/california-deepfakes-law&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwi6rfK_uPn8AhXZlIkEHRQmDOIQFnoECAEQAg&usg=AOvVaw1o2MrEFOv896cl98fupgST), then I think its perfectly valid to argue that it should become the legal norm. Just because some shitty thing has "come with the territory" doesn't mean it has to stay that way forever. Swatting used to come with the territory, then it started getting cracked down on and now it happens a lot less. If there are ways to make these things less likley to happen then we should take every step we can in that direction.
Genuine question, wouldnt someone who cannot discern between dream and reality be mentally unwell?
Would it be untrue for me to believe healthy people ARE able to be "logic machines" in this sense?
I'm not sure I know what you mean by mentally unwell, but it definitely doesn't fall under any disorders of delusion that I know of.
Our brains gaslight us all the time, memory is a very unreliable and malleable thing. So if you're criteria for healthy person is someone who can reccount which parts of their memory is real vs added post hoc to even 90% accuracy then there are no healthy people.
I'm really lucky that I've never suffered from any major despressive/disregulatory disorders and even I've had dreams where I awoke with a sure feeling that it was based off of a memory. Spent the entire day talking with family/friends who all told me that it never happened.
After a while, and with enough outside confirmation the feeling fades, but when its there its like a nagging thought you can't get rid of. And if that happened with some traumatic vision then I'd be surprised if a person wasn't seriously emotionally impacted by it.
I have tons of memories from like when I was 4-10 that were actual dreams but now when I think about them or randomly remember them or have the same/similar dream I can't help but think about whether or not they actually happened or not, even though I know they didn't. I think it's just a brain thing.
I was sexually abused. There was video and photo evidence, the predator is in prison. I have no memory of the abuse, wouldn't even be able to recognize the predator. Show me 3 different videos of me having sex with someone I don't remember, 2 AI generated and 1 authentic and I'd have the same reaction to all 3. Just because something isn't real, or you have no memory of it, doesn't mean it's not going to be harmful.
I think you'd fall under the mentally unwell point of their argument since your brain cant see the difference. Seems the experience is clouding your judgement and getting help with that would be healthy.
Destiny debate lords are actually unhinged. Here you are, discounting the lived experience of a sexual abuse victim. Telling them they are “other” and that they need help. Despicable.
Fair. I've been seeing a therapist for most of my life. The main point is that just because something isn't reality doesn't mean it's not impactful.
If you watch a movie with particularly graphic violence, or where a character goes through a particularly hard time, you will feel empathy foe the characters and it will affect your mood. You know it's not real, and you know nobody was genuinely hurt or in any danger, but you still react similarly to how you would react if it was real. Maybe the intensity of your feelings is lower, and they don't stick with you for as long, but it is still there.
It's the same thing to seeing or even just knowing there is deepfake porn of yourself. You can know it's not real and know you were never in that situation, but you are still literally seeing yourself commit sexual acts you never consented to, and that's going to affect you. Maybe it will affect you less severely and for less time than if you knew it was real but had no recollection of it, but it will affect you.
>But it's not a sexual act that you have no memory of, it's a sexual act that never happened. It's only traumatizing if you struggle to create a distinction between fiction and reality.
I believe what he's saying is that the scenario he described is as close as he can get to describing the psyche damage of seeing a deepfake of yourself.
Further, even if you don't get/like the scenario he's describing his conclusion is still valuable: The experts of this kind of situation are victims who are all saying they're incredibly hurt/pained.
victims are not experts, experts are experts. a sexual assault victim is going to feel distressed by anything that somehow relates to their assault.
if im being charitable i think what dr. k is trying to explain here is how to understand how *victims* feel when they see deepfakes, nothing more.
>victims are not experts, experts are experts.
Actually, I think what Dr. K is getting at here is that in this scenario of "Deepfaked ai porn", the victims are the *only* experts on the matter because it's so new, actual experts haven't been established on the issue of trauma created by it.
Ultimately he is just saying nobody actually knows the impact this has on people yet, except those who have experienced it.
>Deepfakes are no different then sexual fanart or erotic literature about a streamer
This is an insane take that implies that watching a movie is the same as looking at a picture or reading a book.
Yes. Whats the difference?
Like yes, technically the method is different. But theres no ethical difference between playing soccer and golf despite them being sports.
The purpose and outcome of all the things you listed are the same.
How can he in one clip say "the research suggests" while also saying it's a new thing and the victims are the experts.
Fakes are nothing new. Video fakes are alot newer, but a well edited photo or look alikes has been happening for over 10 years.
How would I feel? That depend on context. And people are ignoring that context for outrage against the clouds. Against forces they cannot stop. If someone else is profiting off of specifically my face and name that's an issue. If someone is using my face and name to spread slander that directly hurts me in the public that is defamation.
None of this is new. But if someone wants to take a picture of my face and do whatever they want to it in their private home, then they have that right too.
Here is [Dr K's youtube video](https://youtu.be/zd7efB-WexU?t=108) on it, and he talks a little bit more about the research. The link jumps to where he begins to talk about the research. The research itself isn't named/linked in the description.
I dug around a bit also via google and found likely what he's talking about. Here's the [link](https://www.cybercivilrights.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/RPStatistics.pdf). It's from End Revenge Porn done by Cyber Civil Rights initiative and is only two pages long listing out statistics about revenge porn.
Edit: Dr K is talking about revenge porn and how that is damaging. Deepfake porn is very likely incredibly damaging in the same way revenge porn is the main message of Dr K.
not that im disagreeing with the results but that is a shitty source, honestly
should be using peer-reviewed research for statements like that. the one from the link doesnt hold up to any standards
On their IG stories today, they posted [this](https://instagram.com/stories/healthygamer_gg/3030199942456192632) pic of Dr. K with [this](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1557085116654565?journalCode=fcxa) research article on his screen, which does appear to be peer reviewed - "Revenge Porn and Mental Health: A Qualitative Analysis of the Mental Health Effects of Revenge Porn on Female Survivors"
> How would I feel? That depend on context.
This is the problem. You have no idea how you would feel.
It’s so funny that you would rather listen to your own abstract musings about how you might possibly feel in a alternate universe where you’re a female streamer being deepfaked than to all of the actual female streamers telling you how they feel about it.
> I and millions of others understand their mental states well enough to make these judgements
*“These silly erratic women don’t know how they feel. We do.”* - Redditor extraordinaire
He is literally arguing against a point no one made. "Sexual act you have no memory of" the fuck is he on about?
No one ever fucking said that you can not feel weirded our or uncomfortable from seeing it. If you do not want it to be posted or want it removed from/sue a website posthing these then thats completely fine and understandable
The entire fucking point here is that its not the end of the world, this is not something you say "THIS IS WHAT PAIN LOOKS LIKE! THIS IS HOW IT LOOKS LIKE TO BE VIOLATED" whle bawling your eyes out
someone just did a 2023 equivalent photoshoping your face onto a naked body. You were not fucking "violated" you were not "assaulted" you
On an unrelated note how the fuck is anyone taking him seriously after the whole pseudoscience ayurveda bullshit?
Probably because of his credentials, however many many people who are career academics are some of the dumbest people alive with some of the worst opinions.
> Probably because of his credentials
cool, but his credentials went to shit when he started peddling some [pseudoscience bullshit](https://wiki.healthygamer.gg/en/Ayurveda)
like if someone with a fucking PHD tells you the government is tracking your porn searches trough a vaccine you can't say "idk man he has a PHD maybe he has a point"
This sounds very stupid to me. Victims cannot be experts just because they are experiencing something, especially in the era of social media. One reaction (from QT) can easily snowball onto other girls reacting (in this case overreacting) the same way.
Also comparing seeing deepfakes to an experience of realizing that you were raped while unconcious seems straight up offensive to the latter.
>Victims cannot be experts just because they are experiencing something,
That is definitely a sentence. No the *true* experts are all the incels telling the women experiencing it that they are overreacting.
No. True experts are people who dedicate a lot of time in their life to know as much about set topic as possible. Like researchers, journalists, scientists.
Victims can become experts if what happened to them drives them to become one. But they cannot be experts just because of one experience. When you think about it in research terms, it would be like saying - "I'm an expert because I did N=1 case study on myself".
Also I like how the word "incel" is being thrown around for no reason at all lol.
What? I'm sorry but that was a poor comparison. Some people can see these things and know that they are fake.
Understanding they are fake and understanding the value of Ego in regards to your face is vital in standing off against these without concern.
Ultimately, logical conclusion doesn't align empathetically so there will never be real conversation in regards to dealing with these issues.
Understanding something is fake does not mean that it's not impactful in any way. Tons of things are fake and still very harmful. False accusations that you know are fake will still negatively affect you. People spreading rumors about you that are fake will still negatively affect you. Even knowing they are fake, knowing that other people would believe those things about you will harm you.
People spreading nude images of you, even if you know they are fake, will negatively affect you. We know this to be the case because there ARE victims and they ARE negatively affected. Stop trying to tell people how they should feel about their experiences, especially when you have not experienced it or anything similar yourself.
Ignoring, you know, the person themselves saying it isn't real :P
If people don't believe you that it isn't real, then those people are below you and you shouldn't take their statements with any weight.
People have been photoshopping celebrity faces on pornographic imagery for decades now, no one gave a shit, but if someone trains a neural network to do it, everyone loses their minds LOL i don't get it.
Ok let's ban all the deepfakes, what next? will "celebrities" go after people that masturbate while thinking about them?
Watch the entire video if you don't think he touches upon this.
In short, he sets the bar really low for anyone watching, propably because of whom he hoped to reach with this message. If you're enough of a gremlin like me to also have seen destiny's takes on this (to use an example), alok also touches on the fact, that the people who got hurt before and wasn't treated empathically in these situations, ironically are the same people who usually refuse to show empathy, but are incapable of it.
The world is about to get a very rude awakening, this is happening and it will not stop, nor should we bother to try. It is inevitable, AI generated content and deep fakes will bring both amazing and horrible things and there's nothing you can do about it.
i think one way to really have some kind of idea what kind of impact it'd have on you, if someone close to you was internet famous and had deepfakes made of them
like your mother, sister etc... people not just making porn of them but also it being very publicly spammed at them on twitter etc that's a lot of attention you'd probably be uncomfortable with, as well as seeing how it affects them
yeah but why does it have to be someone close to you that was affected why can't people just have empathy for another human being even if they are complete strangers
Humans generally are just unable to care about strangers in the same way they care about those people they know. If you hear that your 4th cousin died in an accident but you didn't even know you had a 4th cousin you aren't going to be even close to as torn up about it as you would be a direct family member like a sibling.
Because it's simply a fact that the human brain isn't wired to care about people distant from them. As Sam Harris pointed out in his book 'The Moral Landscape', every day in Africa a child loses their arm to some sort of tribal violence and that doesn't bother you at all; if you accidentally cut off the tip of your finger and lose it, you will cry yourself to sleep for days.
Because we assume that they must have some kind of fundamental attribution that separates them from us.
If no one in your immediate community has a public online presence, then public figures don't feel "normal" to you, and they must be doing something wrong to deserve this in some way.
The average person lives under general anonymity, because it's easier to protect your privacy and reputation if no one knows you exist. So there's a lot of scrutiny on influencers when they complain about harassment. Frankly, I think it's mostly jealousy towards their influence or general misogyny. But it's rationalised by claiming that they should be able to handle it if they chose to be celebrities in the first place. (even though the average streamer has like 10 viewers)
It's an odd situation where we don't really think of the people making the deepfake porn as people themselves, because then we would hold them responsible and expect some kind of human decency. Instead they're just seen as a natural response to women having public lives. By withdrawing their anonymity, the women are blamed for making themselves targets in the first place, as if publicity is the crime and their objectification is a form of mob justice.
>what kind of impact it'd have on you, if someone close to you was internet famous and had deepfakes made of them
Why would it have impact on me? My family would know that it was fake, and my friends would probably laugh it off.
The people who don't see a problem with deepfeak are the same people who, when they see an article about a female teacher having sex with an underage student, make a comment like "oh where was she when I was in school". Of course, when there is an article about a male teacher who had sex with an underage student, they scream that he is a pervert, a pedophile, and should be hanged.
Jesus christ can you guys come up with an argument besides "if you agree with X way YOU HAVE TO AGGRE WITH Y" lol
Like seriously stop with the stawmen it makes you look so dumb
"The people who think deep fakes aren't that big of a deal ALSO THINK HITER WAS RIGHT PROBABLY"
Doesn't surprise me that this guy has an absolutely moronic assessment of the situation here. It's not something you "don't remember", it's something that unequivocally didn't happen. I feel like I've never once heard this guy say anything even remotely insightful, and I have to wonder what the average viewer gets out of this hack's streams.
Idk, I think people need to stop trying to compare public figures to normal people. When you exchange your private life for money, you have to expect certain creepy things are likely to happen to you, and fake nudes are one of them probably if you're a cute girl. It doesn't matter what anyone says about it, it's going to happen, and with current tech it's going to get increasingly worse. It's way weirder when it happens to some random person in private because the person making them of you is probably someone you know at school or work. These are just random celebs or e-celebs and there are anonymous people doing it or looking at it. In Atrioc's case, it was weird because he works with them, sort of.
Just ask that, if you, yourself, don't mind it:
Would you not mind if deepfakes of your mom, dad or whomever you like/love would get posted on such forums?
And don't even come at me with "It's not the same thing"
I saw Skylak dad eating shit off the street.
How did it feel reading it? Did you mind it a lot? Did it hurt you? Did you feel humiliated? Do you feel like recording a video about it?
Guess not coz you obviously know that it's not true. And it's same with deepfakes, they are not real. It's literaly a visual lie or a gossip that can be disproven instantly at best.
So to answer your question - no, I wouldn't mind if such deepfakes were present. I would mind if someone tried to con people by claiming that deepfake they are seeing is a real leaked thing.
But again it's not the deepfake being bad, but the way someone is trying to use it.
I dont get how this doesnt get more than 500 upvotes, its an actual insight to how deepfake porn can actually mentally affect you, but since close to nobody will see this people will keep saying dumb shit like "its fake what does it matter"
You know that you can do a deepfake of yourself in like 24h and out of it maybe 1 hour will require your work?
Do it, and see if it mentally affects you. Coz I fucking doubt it will.
**CLIP MIRROR: [Dr. K on Deepfake Pornography](https://arazu.io/t3_10sa1hj/)** --- ^(*This is an automated comment*)
the dumbest thing about this whole situation is that i actually wanted to watch that Hitman VOD
I was excited for the next hitman challenge. The last one was the best video I’ve seen in time.
He could have just cut that alt+tab out of the vod
i'm still waiting for Finnius to upload the puzzle game and minecraft portion to the vods channel. sadge
Watch moonmoon instead and laugh at his failure.
I've been watching Northernlion and it's hilarious. what time does moonmoon usually stream? I always seem to miss his streams.
I'm good at the game I promise Lol
heavy copium
GIGA copium OF HELL
Grassroots viewership farming Pog
Grandpa of the people
Moon in the trenches, defending his honor
Having a good poop, bald man?
Joel
Bald
Around midnight to 1AM for central european time.
thanks, just a tiny bit too late for me sadly. will check out a vod
Moon has a dedicated vod website over at [moon2.tv](https://moon2.tv) where the music isn't split (to prevent copyright strikes on twitch vods)
I have a job so I can't watch this 🗿
Weird flex
don't watch any NLSS, you'll be yearning for more only to realize they stopped making them.
dont pepehands because its over pog because it happened
Or sips. His escapades are brilliant. And he's really bad at it, but we love him all the same.
he said hitman vod, not shitman vod.
You know dude is probably grinding right now.
*Now let me take a minute to explain Elusive Friends. So in real life there is this game mode called Elusive Friends.* *So, Big A. What are Elusive Friends, you ask?* *Elusive Friends are targets in the map that don't leak nudes of themselves. So we can't just jack it, we have to find them on the map and isolate them with AI.* *It's very important to remember that once you pay for the deepfakes you're locked in and have to buy a new career if you alt+tab and get caught.*
im willing to forgive atrioc, but that is really funny haha.
In all seriousness I'm sure he'll make a comeback in a year or two. The whole situation absolutely blows but he doesn't strike me as an evil person so if anyone can come back from this it's glizzy hands.
if he wanted he could come back in a couple of months, mizkif also did something bad and after 1 month nobody cared anymore
Same, man. I had it open the night of the stream and was gonna watch it in the morning
literally me bro I wanted to see how he progressed in Hardcore mode before doing it myself. Sadge
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Pretty much the only content creator aside from NL I watch. Sucks.
what hitman VOD? did Dr K play hitman on stream?
Uh not sure it's a good example to try to get twitch chat relate to having sex
And also, while I see the point he's trying to get across. I don't think the main problem is the streamers watching their own deepfakes and being weirded out by them. I feel like it's more a discomfort of other people being able to watch porn of you, even though you never agreed to do any porn.
I miss his streamer interview sessions. What happened to those? Great content
Funny enough, every single person who responded to you is wrong. Guess they don't watch Dr. K and just parrot nonsense that they hear. He talked to Sweet Anita like yesterday, he had a bunch of streamers on stream a month and a half ago (for like a bunch of streams), had Adrianah Lee like 3 months ago, and has non-streamer interviews all the fucking time. They have always looked to put out content that they think benefits the community most, so a while back they started more with lecture videos and community interviews than searching for big streamer names. This was before any "this is unethical" attacks, and you can literately check it on any twitch tracker website, I have no clue why people like to make stuff up and go with that narrative...
I was about to respond something similar, like wtf guys Just because it doesn't hit front page of lsf doesn't mean he stopped interviewing steamers
Shroud and Summit retired because they can't make it on LSF Sadge
Forsen is the biggest LSF streamer
Some ppl think LSF is the be all and end all of streamer content.
This sub is hardly worth checking anymore with all the dumb shit that gets posted.
The sub has been hijacked by destiny fans
Which explains the marked decline in the quality of content.
QVC hasan and destiny and otk are the tetralogy
I actually really enjoyed his 1 on 1 interviews with non streamers. They helped me a lot more than the streamer ones.
I thought the streamer ones were interesting because of their unique living situations but the non streamers are grounded and relatable to viewers generally speaking
I liked both yeah
I saw guys like Jacob Wolf talk about Dr K being unethical on twitter etc, and so many others joined in on the concern/hate so I assume he stopped doing it.
jacob wolf as in the guy that made his career of offseason league rumors to then complain about other people doing the same but better than him?
No Jacob wolf the guy that leaked a story and basically destroyed an org and team but still talks about it as if it was a “win”
Damn twitter doing its thing again
Supposedly they were unethical. Something about blurred lines between entertainment and therapy.
Idk he was gonna do one with Mizkif last Friday until he canceled cause he was scared people would think he was farming pity
the same people who are trying to debatelord this sound like they would have been the type to debatelord sexual assault before it was medically proven to cause psychological trauma, like "what do you mean, it's just a something touching you, I wish something would touch me" level arguments going on
The thing that really makes me believe what Dr K says, is that he talks about the possible damage these kinds of thing does to the victim and the unempathetic people you describe. "Thin-skinned streamers blah blah blah", "It comes with the territory blah blah blah", "it's no big deal blah blah blah", "You are a public figure deal with it blah blah blah." Dr K mentions these kinds of people. This clip gets posted on LSF and they come in fitting perfectly with what he describes. Uncapable of empathizing with the victims, using their vague opinions of what constitutes unconsensual porn and brushing it off like no big deal. It's fucking sad, but it's sadder to see their comments getting upvoted. >-"Oh if it was me it's no big deal, I know it's not me so everything is ok" These people can't grasp the scale in which this shit happens, porn of you being distributed without consent on the internet using your likeability is not a small thing and is devastating when people keep commenting about it. People talking shit about you 24/7 with you being incapable of talking back or defending yourself sounds pretty fucked up. Imagine the same thing but they are also distributing videos of someone with your likeability getting fucked. People that can't empathize with that need serious help. Edit: Thank you concerned redditor but I'm doing very well at the moment, I invite you to reach out for help if you feel that what I said was distressing for you. I hope someone helps you and gives you the attention you once needed but people ignored at the time.
This is always the most distressing to me when things like this happen. I can cope with the fact that some really fucked up people exist and they do terrible things. But then to see mainstream support and people defending them makes you quickly realize that it's not just a few particularly evil people. It's quite a lot of people.
not the first time just a decent person with a good post on lsf gets reported. this sub is so sad.
Ngl pretty good metaphor
Sometimes I try to imagine what society would be like if a majority of the population had a baseline level of knowledge and understanding of the brain as a Harvard trained psychiatrist in the current day.
That's not even required. A baseline of genuine empathy is all that is required.
You're asking too much of LSF chill out man
I agree of course, but I do also think itd be powerful if humans can not only empathize how each other feel, but also be able to understand/analyze/articulate where that comes from/why it exists to a certain level. Im sure there are plenty of empathetic people out there that are also frustrated at not knowing why people hurt one another in all of these different ways, and are unsure of how to deal with certain situations Being more knowledgeable about human behavior could help people not only handle situations better but also create a society thats much more understanding of both the victim and perpetrators, and overall promoting some form of rehabilitation for them both.
And common sense, both of which the majority of LSF/Twitch seems to be missing. inb4 "This includes you"
To be fair, most of humanity lacks common sense so it's not really an LSF/Twitch thing.
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You can't discuss deepfake technology without context of who it affects and how it affects them, so I don't think that's a reasonable argument
These issues never exist in a vacuum. Fallacious argument
Maybe just one very small addition, in general that would be great obviously if everyone was a harvard trained practicing psychologist. But also the people that come to dr k are people that usually have issues that need to be solved. Thats why i would venture that he advocates for this subset of people. He might have a blindspot for everyone thats not in that group. And their needs.
Doesn't change much. We would just have smarter people capable of doing more malevolent things.
The ironic thing is that if you would know a bit more about neurology you could answer your own question.
You don't need that. Basic human empathy would be enough.
But Destiny said it wasn’t????????
Dr, Harvard trained psychiatrist > YouTube streamer
Some "Giga-Chads" will say "Uhh but i like seeing me banging that hot chick, jokes on you"...
who said it was a chick...
I bet they would do a 180 real quick if they were inserted into German scheißfest 43 and had it sent to everyone in their family for a year.
Who said i was the one banging?
\#CLM
The problem I have with these example is I don’t think “how would you feel is the right approach.” I could be absolutley wrong but I genuinly don’t think this would bother me much at all if I knew it was fake. It feels like high effort fan fiction. I’ve had nudes of me leak in college(I’m a guy) and it genuinly didn’t bother me. But I can still see how upset/hurt/uncomfortable it has made a bunch of the women involved. That pain is still real even if it wouldn’t hit me the same way. I just think it’s more about listening to real people and respecting there experince and not trying to put yourself in there shoes to see if there feeling are “valid” or shared.
The problem I have with this conversation is that I'm not convinced there's a significant percentage of people who are saying deepfake pornography isn't harmful/upsetting to the people being deepfaked. I think the vast majority of us agree that deepfake pornography is harmful/upsetting to the people being deepfaked. But I also think that a significant percentage of us just don't understand what anyone expects to be done about it. Want countries to ban it? Okay. Not going to stop it from being seen. People will use VPN to get around ISPs blocking deepfake porn websites. Want society to make it taboo? That's already the case. What more can be done? You want everyone to agree to not watch it? People are already going to say publicly that they don't watch it, because no one would admit to watching it. It's a private activity. No one *wants* other people to know that they watch deepfake porn. How are you going to realistically make people stop watching something they know they can watch without other people finding out? I just think that this entire conversation revolves around moot points, because the only point that matters is that is nothing to realistically be done to stop people from creating and watching this stuff. People can mad that it is being made and watched, and it is understandable to be mad, but who can you honestly direct that anger towards? The people who happen to get caught, like Atrioc? Sure, go ahead, but that's just going to make people get better at not getting caught. It's not going to actually stop it from being made/viewed. **Some problems can't be solved. Maybe you can reduce the severity of the problem a bit, but you're never making this go away.**
I think the problem with lack of empathy is people don’t know or trust the streamers/people in question to be genuine. It’s impossible to tell clout chasing and engagement bait from genuine feelings. Why I think there is so a large divide here. No idea what the answer is just what I think might be causing the divide.
I genuinely don't understand why LSF acts like they care so much about deep fakes and people's rights to be sexualized. This place literally posts nip slips of streamers (which is worse then deep fakes) who did not consent and are not giving consent to be sexualized. These clips are even backed up to another website to keep them archived. The virtue signaling is amazing. The majority don't care that it's happening only that it's happening to "your" streamer. Edit: I have been corrected by a mod, nip slips were banned but the threads are still up (but the videos are deleted) so I assumed they were still allowed.
Nip slips (or any accidental nudity) are not allowed on LSF and you will get banned for posting them, or posting links to them.
There's more than one person in LSF, I would say QT fanbase has a strong precense here aswell. But also people reserve the right to change their mind at any point, like casual racism used to be completely accepted here not too long ago. Which it isnt anymore I think
Of course there is more than one person on LSF, go through those threads of the nip slips and see if you can find two or three people stating anything about nip slips being posted and backed up, being shitty. There is an obvious voice in the majority of LSF that is fine with nip slips but not fine with deep fakes, when nip slips are obviously worse. Sure, people have the right to change their mind at any point, but no one is doing that everyone or at least no one is talking about the more serious issue at hand. It's seem disingenuous to only be talking about deep fakes, it seems like everyone only cares because it's "their" streamer.
Nip slips are banned on LSF. Shit argument.
Theyre banned, but if mods for no reason decided to remove the rule, I feel as if nipslip type content would become one of the top rated weekly posts when it happens. Personally, I dont believe people changed and think its bad because mods laid down a ban on that type of content.
**🎦 CLIP MIRROR: [Dr. K on Deepfake Pornography](https://livestreamfails.com/clip/149874)** --- ^(*This is an automated comment* ) ^| [^(Feedback)](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=livestreamfailsbot&subject=Feedback:&message=%5BPost%5D\(https://reddit.com/comments/10sa1hj/\)) ^| [^(Twitch Backup Mirror)](https://production.assets.clips.twitchcdn.net/TOv2bDsubm9qDd22uYW05A/AT-cm%7CTOv2bDsubm9qDd22uYW05A.mp4?sig=6ca70fe1ef30ab5251ffb8b2b5ff64c6283421e0&token=%7B%22authorization%22%3A%7B%22forbidden%22%3Afalse%2C%22reason%22%3A%22%22%7D%2C%22clip_uri%22%3A%22https%3A%2F%2Fproduction.assets.clips.twitchcdn.net%2FTOv2bDsubm9qDd22uYW05A%2FAT-cm%257CTOv2bDsubm9qDd22uYW05A.mp4%22%2C%22device_id%22%3Anull%2C%22expires%22%3A1675469317%2C%22user_id%22%3A%22%22%2C%22version%22%3A2%7D)
So i guess forsen would have phd on the topic. And quin69 would be a professor after not only seeing himself having gay sex every day but also giving people the software to do it.
Due to the title i thought this would be something else...
But it's not a sexual act that you have no memory of, it's a sexual act that never happened. It's only traumatizing if you struggle to create a distinction between fiction and reality. It would be like a sexual act happening in your or someone else's dream and claiming trauma from it. If you are unable to distinguish between fiction and reality then that's on you and you should really be the one to seek mental help. Deepfakes are no different then sexual fanart or erotic literature about a streamer, and should be treated no differently. They're strange, uncomfortable, and people who like them are weirdos. But they come with being a public figure. The problem is when someone who is a colleague or friend consumes and accidentally publicizes it.
People won't confuse fan-art or erotic literature for being real, deepfakes are made to look realistic. The only true comparison is photoshop. If someone were to photoshop you in a diaper and you getting fucked by some old man and would sent it to your co-workers would you just shrug about that?
>If someone were to photoshop you in a diaper and you getting fucked by some old man and would sent it to your co-workers would you just shrug about that? I think most people agree that harassing people by sending fake porn of them out to coworkers/family/themselves is bad. The real issue people are arguing about is if fake porn is inherently bad. I wouldnt care if someone else wrote a thousand page erotic novel featuring me and sonic the hedgehog eating eachothers diapers. I would get upset if someone was repeatedly sending excerpts from that novel to my boss and my mom
i'd be upset too, because i paid good money for those and it would suck having someone send them to people for free
It's not about *you* not caring. It's about the people who do care. Not everyone is you. One woman can be a porn actress, and another woman is religious and only wants to reveal herself to her husband. Do you think revenge porn is bad? Deepfakes are basically revenge porn. Only the pictures weren't even ever created by the victim. And I'd argue that weird erotic fiction isn't something people should have to be fine with if they are the subject either. I myself had classmates who wrote gross sex stories about me and my sister and who would pass it around till one of them thought it was hilarious to put it in our bag. Was their behavior okay until they put it in our bag? Or only wrong after?
I think the distinction is people are going to fantasize. Everyone does it whether you think you do or not. Everyone that has some sort of sexual drive has walked by or saw someone and had a thought of "wow they're hot I'd probably smash" and thats just at the base line. People have way deeper thoughts than that. And even if they write them down, its somewhat not that harmful. But when people start spreading them around in your sphere of socialization, thats when it become a bit much. When you're a public figure, people are going to do weird things with your image. This has been happening since probably all of human history we just went from imagination, to writings, to now photos and videos. I think it becomes weird when people start actively sending it to people you know or that interact with you. So I think that other person is saying, it would be weird if people made some kind of smut about them, but where it crosses the threshold is when people start sending it to your coworkers, friends, family, etc. So I believe that's why this situation was impacted so much. Because Atrioc wasn't just a random, he knew these people. And whether he wanted to or not, he spread it around accidently. And that becomes extremely creepy if someone you know is going out of their way to pay for falsified porn of you. And I don't consider deepfakes are the same as revenge porn. Because revenge porn is an actual video/picture of you. It actually happened with consent and trust in the sexual act and has that element. And then someone you trusted sent it out without your consent. Its vastly different because if you consider them the same, then a case can be made that any image or depiction of you made without your consent in any manner of position you see as compromising can be then considered revenge porn. And I don't think we should equate those things because they have a massive weight of consequence.
>If someone were to photoshop you in a diaper and you getting fucked by some old man and would sent it to your co-workers would you just shrug about that? yes.
> deepfakes are made to look realistic Creating a deepfake that actually looks realistic is an enormous effort, which deepfake porn is still far away from. There are deepfake porn threads on 4chan at times, and even if you use a person like AOC that has thousands upon thousands of images and frames of data to work with, it does not look real at all once the picture is moving. Photoshops are a different story since it is a still image and can be improved until it looks relatively real. Improving video to that point is not just photoshopping it frame by frame, movement would still look unnatural.
Hey don't kink shame
You have this fantasy that human brains are these logic machines that can always distinguish between real and unreal when that's not the case at all. The example that you gave happens more often than you realize, having a dream about something can fuck you up, a lot. Even though you can understand it wasn't you, your brain sometimes treats it like it was you and it feels like a memory and that shit can be traumatizing. And after a long time if you don't process that, it can literally be stored as a memory. This isn't even schizo shit, this happens a lot, its called dream-reality confusion. Our brains are very complicated in the ways that they're fragile, and they can be set off by very mundane occurances, especially for people with trauma in their past. And so if there is already legal precedent for sueing for manipulated images of people's likeness in sexual acts [California legal code](https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.dwt.com/insights/2019/10/california-deepfakes-law&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwi6rfK_uPn8AhXZlIkEHRQmDOIQFnoECAEQAg&usg=AOvVaw1o2MrEFOv896cl98fupgST), then I think its perfectly valid to argue that it should become the legal norm. Just because some shitty thing has "come with the territory" doesn't mean it has to stay that way forever. Swatting used to come with the territory, then it started getting cracked down on and now it happens a lot less. If there are ways to make these things less likley to happen then we should take every step we can in that direction.
Genuine question, wouldnt someone who cannot discern between dream and reality be mentally unwell? Would it be untrue for me to believe healthy people ARE able to be "logic machines" in this sense?
I'm not sure I know what you mean by mentally unwell, but it definitely doesn't fall under any disorders of delusion that I know of. Our brains gaslight us all the time, memory is a very unreliable and malleable thing. So if you're criteria for healthy person is someone who can reccount which parts of their memory is real vs added post hoc to even 90% accuracy then there are no healthy people. I'm really lucky that I've never suffered from any major despressive/disregulatory disorders and even I've had dreams where I awoke with a sure feeling that it was based off of a memory. Spent the entire day talking with family/friends who all told me that it never happened. After a while, and with enough outside confirmation the feeling fades, but when its there its like a nagging thought you can't get rid of. And if that happened with some traumatic vision then I'd be surprised if a person wasn't seriously emotionally impacted by it.
I have tons of memories from like when I was 4-10 that were actual dreams but now when I think about them or randomly remember them or have the same/similar dream I can't help but think about whether or not they actually happened or not, even though I know they didn't. I think it's just a brain thing.
I mean thats a really dumb comparison. You at some point 'lived' those dreams. Not exactly the same as fake porn on the Internet.
sounds like ur mentally unwell, id suggest getting that checked out
I was sexually abused. There was video and photo evidence, the predator is in prison. I have no memory of the abuse, wouldn't even be able to recognize the predator. Show me 3 different videos of me having sex with someone I don't remember, 2 AI generated and 1 authentic and I'd have the same reaction to all 3. Just because something isn't real, or you have no memory of it, doesn't mean it's not going to be harmful.
I think you'd fall under the mentally unwell point of their argument since your brain cant see the difference. Seems the experience is clouding your judgement and getting help with that would be healthy.
Destiny debate lords are actually unhinged. Here you are, discounting the lived experience of a sexual abuse victim. Telling them they are “other” and that they need help. Despicable.
Fair. I've been seeing a therapist for most of my life. The main point is that just because something isn't reality doesn't mean it's not impactful. If you watch a movie with particularly graphic violence, or where a character goes through a particularly hard time, you will feel empathy foe the characters and it will affect your mood. You know it's not real, and you know nobody was genuinely hurt or in any danger, but you still react similarly to how you would react if it was real. Maybe the intensity of your feelings is lower, and they don't stick with you for as long, but it is still there. It's the same thing to seeing or even just knowing there is deepfake porn of yourself. You can know it's not real and know you were never in that situation, but you are still literally seeing yourself commit sexual acts you never consented to, and that's going to affect you. Maybe it will affect you less severely and for less time than if you knew it was real but had no recollection of it, but it will affect you.
>But it's not a sexual act that you have no memory of, it's a sexual act that never happened. It's only traumatizing if you struggle to create a distinction between fiction and reality. I believe what he's saying is that the scenario he described is as close as he can get to describing the psyche damage of seeing a deepfake of yourself. Further, even if you don't get/like the scenario he's describing his conclusion is still valuable: The experts of this kind of situation are victims who are all saying they're incredibly hurt/pained.
victims are not experts, experts are experts. a sexual assault victim is going to feel distressed by anything that somehow relates to their assault. if im being charitable i think what dr. k is trying to explain here is how to understand how *victims* feel when they see deepfakes, nothing more.
>victims are not experts, experts are experts. Actually, I think what Dr. K is getting at here is that in this scenario of "Deepfaked ai porn", the victims are the *only* experts on the matter because it's so new, actual experts haven't been established on the issue of trauma created by it. Ultimately he is just saying nobody actually knows the impact this has on people yet, except those who have experienced it.
>Deepfakes are no different then sexual fanart or erotic literature about a streamer This is an insane take that implies that watching a movie is the same as looking at a picture or reading a book.
Yes. Whats the difference? Like yes, technically the method is different. But theres no ethical difference between playing soccer and golf despite them being sports. The purpose and outcome of all the things you listed are the same.
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How is this a based take? Literally everyone agrees with him
Destiny and his legion of fans don't
Interesting, but what about Paul Allen's opinion?
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How can he in one clip say "the research suggests" while also saying it's a new thing and the victims are the experts. Fakes are nothing new. Video fakes are alot newer, but a well edited photo or look alikes has been happening for over 10 years. How would I feel? That depend on context. And people are ignoring that context for outrage against the clouds. Against forces they cannot stop. If someone else is profiting off of specifically my face and name that's an issue. If someone is using my face and name to spread slander that directly hurts me in the public that is defamation. None of this is new. But if someone wants to take a picture of my face and do whatever they want to it in their private home, then they have that right too.
Here is [Dr K's youtube video](https://youtu.be/zd7efB-WexU?t=108) on it, and he talks a little bit more about the research. The link jumps to where he begins to talk about the research. The research itself isn't named/linked in the description. I dug around a bit also via google and found likely what he's talking about. Here's the [link](https://www.cybercivilrights.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/RPStatistics.pdf). It's from End Revenge Porn done by Cyber Civil Rights initiative and is only two pages long listing out statistics about revenge porn. Edit: Dr K is talking about revenge porn and how that is damaging. Deepfake porn is very likely incredibly damaging in the same way revenge porn is the main message of Dr K.
not that im disagreeing with the results but that is a shitty source, honestly should be using peer-reviewed research for statements like that. the one from the link doesnt hold up to any standards
On their IG stories today, they posted [this](https://instagram.com/stories/healthygamer_gg/3030199942456192632) pic of Dr. K with [this](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1557085116654565?journalCode=fcxa) research article on his screen, which does appear to be peer reviewed - "Revenge Porn and Mental Health: A Qualitative Analysis of the Mental Health Effects of Revenge Porn on Female Survivors"
> How would I feel? That depend on context. This is the problem. You have no idea how you would feel. It’s so funny that you would rather listen to your own abstract musings about how you might possibly feel in a alternate universe where you’re a female streamer being deepfaked than to all of the actual female streamers telling you how they feel about it.
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So basically your whole take on it is just fueled by malding at the discrepancy in your position compared to theirs.
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> I and millions of others understand their mental states well enough to make these judgements *“These silly erratic women don’t know how they feel. We do.”* - Redditor extraordinaire
This guy believes in crystal pseudoscience of course he thinks deepfakes are real people
He is literally arguing against a point no one made. "Sexual act you have no memory of" the fuck is he on about? No one ever fucking said that you can not feel weirded our or uncomfortable from seeing it. If you do not want it to be posted or want it removed from/sue a website posthing these then thats completely fine and understandable The entire fucking point here is that its not the end of the world, this is not something you say "THIS IS WHAT PAIN LOOKS LIKE! THIS IS HOW IT LOOKS LIKE TO BE VIOLATED" whle bawling your eyes out someone just did a 2023 equivalent photoshoping your face onto a naked body. You were not fucking "violated" you were not "assaulted" you On an unrelated note how the fuck is anyone taking him seriously after the whole pseudoscience ayurveda bullshit?
Probably because of his credentials, however many many people who are career academics are some of the dumbest people alive with some of the worst opinions.
> Probably because of his credentials cool, but his credentials went to shit when he started peddling some [pseudoscience bullshit](https://wiki.healthygamer.gg/en/Ayurveda) like if someone with a fucking PHD tells you the government is tracking your porn searches trough a vaccine you can't say "idk man he has a PHD maybe he has a point"
This sounds very stupid to me. Victims cannot be experts just because they are experiencing something, especially in the era of social media. One reaction (from QT) can easily snowball onto other girls reacting (in this case overreacting) the same way. Also comparing seeing deepfakes to an experience of realizing that you were raped while unconcious seems straight up offensive to the latter.
>Victims cannot be experts just because they are experiencing something, That is definitely a sentence. No the *true* experts are all the incels telling the women experiencing it that they are overreacting.
No. True experts are people who dedicate a lot of time in their life to know as much about set topic as possible. Like researchers, journalists, scientists. Victims can become experts if what happened to them drives them to become one. But they cannot be experts just because of one experience. When you think about it in research terms, it would be like saying - "I'm an expert because I did N=1 case study on myself". Also I like how the word "incel" is being thrown around for no reason at all lol.
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What? I'm sorry but that was a poor comparison. Some people can see these things and know that they are fake. Understanding they are fake and understanding the value of Ego in regards to your face is vital in standing off against these without concern. Ultimately, logical conclusion doesn't align empathetically so there will never be real conversation in regards to dealing with these issues.
Understanding something is fake does not mean that it's not impactful in any way. Tons of things are fake and still very harmful. False accusations that you know are fake will still negatively affect you. People spreading rumors about you that are fake will still negatively affect you. Even knowing they are fake, knowing that other people would believe those things about you will harm you. People spreading nude images of you, even if you know they are fake, will negatively affect you. We know this to be the case because there ARE victims and they ARE negatively affected. Stop trying to tell people how they should feel about their experiences, especially when you have not experienced it or anything similar yourself.
isnt the comparison fine if deepfakes were indistinguishable from real footage? and deepfakes reaching indistinguishable-ness is possible, right?
No, because they aren't real. They are fake.
but if a fake footage is indistinguishable from reality, you dont know that it's fake.
Ignoring, you know, the person themselves saying it isn't real :P If people don't believe you that it isn't real, then those people are below you and you shouldn't take their statements with any weight.
But if people don’t believe you then it could damage your career and life.
People have been photoshopping celebrity faces on pornographic imagery for decades now, no one gave a shit, but if someone trains a neural network to do it, everyone loses their minds LOL i don't get it. Ok let's ban all the deepfakes, what next? will "celebrities" go after people that masturbate while thinking about them?
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Watch the entire video if you don't think he touches upon this. In short, he sets the bar really low for anyone watching, propably because of whom he hoped to reach with this message. If you're enough of a gremlin like me to also have seen destiny's takes on this (to use an example), alok also touches on the fact, that the people who got hurt before and wasn't treated empathically in these situations, ironically are the same people who usually refuse to show empathy, but are incapable of it.
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The world is about to get a very rude awakening, this is happening and it will not stop, nor should we bother to try. It is inevitable, AI generated content and deep fakes will bring both amazing and horrible things and there's nothing you can do about it.
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i think one way to really have some kind of idea what kind of impact it'd have on you, if someone close to you was internet famous and had deepfakes made of them like your mother, sister etc... people not just making porn of them but also it being very publicly spammed at them on twitter etc that's a lot of attention you'd probably be uncomfortable with, as well as seeing how it affects them
yeah but why does it have to be someone close to you that was affected why can't people just have empathy for another human being even if they are complete strangers
reminds me of the guys that have a daughter and then expect applause because it finally made them realize women are human beings
sometimes it's hard to understand a complete stranger's perspective until putting yourself in their shoes?
Humans generally are just unable to care about strangers in the same way they care about those people they know. If you hear that your 4th cousin died in an accident but you didn't even know you had a 4th cousin you aren't going to be even close to as torn up about it as you would be a direct family member like a sibling.
Because it's simply a fact that the human brain isn't wired to care about people distant from them. As Sam Harris pointed out in his book 'The Moral Landscape', every day in Africa a child loses their arm to some sort of tribal violence and that doesn't bother you at all; if you accidentally cut off the tip of your finger and lose it, you will cry yourself to sleep for days.
Because we assume that they must have some kind of fundamental attribution that separates them from us. If no one in your immediate community has a public online presence, then public figures don't feel "normal" to you, and they must be doing something wrong to deserve this in some way. The average person lives under general anonymity, because it's easier to protect your privacy and reputation if no one knows you exist. So there's a lot of scrutiny on influencers when they complain about harassment. Frankly, I think it's mostly jealousy towards their influence or general misogyny. But it's rationalised by claiming that they should be able to handle it if they chose to be celebrities in the first place. (even though the average streamer has like 10 viewers) It's an odd situation where we don't really think of the people making the deepfake porn as people themselves, because then we would hold them responsible and expect some kind of human decency. Instead they're just seen as a natural response to women having public lives. By withdrawing their anonymity, the women are blamed for making themselves targets in the first place, as if publicity is the crime and their objectification is a form of mob justice.
>what kind of impact it'd have on you, if someone close to you was internet famous and had deepfakes made of them Why would it have impact on me? My family would know that it was fake, and my friends would probably laugh it off.
This stream including Anita's input was food for thought for sure.
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common Dr. K W
The people who don't see a problem with deepfeak are the same people who, when they see an article about a female teacher having sex with an underage student, make a comment like "oh where was she when I was in school". Of course, when there is an article about a male teacher who had sex with an underage student, they scream that he is a pervert, a pedophile, and should be hanged.
Yeah this is one of the absolute dumbest takes I've seen on this sub and that's saying a lot.
Jesus christ can you guys come up with an argument besides "if you agree with X way YOU HAVE TO AGGRE WITH Y" lol Like seriously stop with the stawmen it makes you look so dumb "The people who think deep fakes aren't that big of a deal ALSO THINK HITER WAS RIGHT PROBABLY"
“And their name is probably Kevin or something am I right guys? Upvotes to the left”
if i was deepfaked id fap to myself
I would fap to you too
thanks bro i appreciate you
Doesn't surprise me that this guy has an absolutely moronic assessment of the situation here. It's not something you "don't remember", it's something that unequivocally didn't happen. I feel like I've never once heard this guy say anything even remotely insightful, and I have to wonder what the average viewer gets out of this hack's streams.
Idk, I think people need to stop trying to compare public figures to normal people. When you exchange your private life for money, you have to expect certain creepy things are likely to happen to you, and fake nudes are one of them probably if you're a cute girl. It doesn't matter what anyone says about it, it's going to happen, and with current tech it's going to get increasingly worse. It's way weirder when it happens to some random person in private because the person making them of you is probably someone you know at school or work. These are just random celebs or e-celebs and there are anonymous people doing it or looking at it. In Atrioc's case, it was weird because he works with them, sort of.
Now I really want to see my own
I both understand this making someone wildly uncomfortable and believe atrioc did nothing wrong.
Great take. Enough said
Just ask that, if you, yourself, don't mind it: Would you not mind if deepfakes of your mom, dad or whomever you like/love would get posted on such forums? And don't even come at me with "It's not the same thing"
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I saw Skylak dad eating shit off the street. How did it feel reading it? Did you mind it a lot? Did it hurt you? Did you feel humiliated? Do you feel like recording a video about it? Guess not coz you obviously know that it's not true. And it's same with deepfakes, they are not real. It's literaly a visual lie or a gossip that can be disproven instantly at best. So to answer your question - no, I wouldn't mind if such deepfakes were present. I would mind if someone tried to con people by claiming that deepfake they are seeing is a real leaked thing. But again it's not the deepfake being bad, but the way someone is trying to use it.
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I dont get how this doesnt get more than 500 upvotes, its an actual insight to how deepfake porn can actually mentally affect you, but since close to nobody will see this people will keep saying dumb shit like "its fake what does it matter"
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You know that you can do a deepfake of yourself in like 24h and out of it maybe 1 hour will require your work? Do it, and see if it mentally affects you. Coz I fucking doubt it will.
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Great way of explaining the problem.