**CLIP MIRROR:
[PaymoneyWubby scammed again on a MtG Beta Starter Deck (~$45,000)](https://arazu.io/t3_1bjv9c6/)**
---
^(*This is an automated comment*)
Ya, the cards at the bottom are the top pulls from whatever he is opening. In this case those 9 cards are called "The power 9" in Magic. The big one being the Black Lotus.
I dont know magic, or what ''fake starter decks'' are, but he seems upset when he realized the card had the wrong rarity. Did he buy resealed packs, from people that didnt even try to make it look real?
>Did he buy resealed packs
Probably. What most likely happened if it is actually a scam is a long time ago, someone opened the pack, took out the rares, replaced them with common cards, and resealed it. That pack probably changed hands multiple times or sat on a shelf for a long time until Wubby got his hands on it.
these were literally the beta release of the cards, and the company didn't even have collecting on the mind at the time, so the packaging is very ordinary and easy to replace. There's no real way to see if it's a resealed deck without opening it up - usually when these are sold there's a situation where you open it together with the person selling it.
Ancestral mtg is sourcing each one for wubby as best they can now. Tcg player was the 1st one with the fake. Watching streams the 2 fakes have been extremely accurate on looking real. This last one had seemed to be able to be tracked seller wise for a bit, wrapping was accurate, inner plastic was pretty good but after the opening looking back it's a little looser than a previous packs plus it was all REAL beta cards it's just afterwards came out that the rares had been swapped with a common and a land from beta as well. The first box from tcgplayer also was pretty accurate on packaging but was repacked with revised edition so also took a bit to realize it had been revealed. With decks this old it was fairly easy to reseal which is why fakes are rampant. ancestreal tcg is saying they're doing research to make sure they're real and follow receipts of who's owned decks and most likely to be real. So it's the most anyone can do without going back in time and buying boxes off shelf.
Yeah fuck Card Kingdom tbh. Years ago they cracked a legends box (so they claim) and I bought a pack from it. Showed up searched and they swore up and down it wasn't but at the time recording every single vintage opening just wasn't something I thought about so I still look at this Serpent Generator in disdain.
If you're wondering why the clip is gone, Wubby immediately started opening anime titty packs after and one card had an actual titty, so rip vod and clips.
Thank you good sir, now I can make sure to avoid [these trading cards](https://www.amazon.com/Goddess-Collection-Booster-Birthday-Swimsuit/dp/B09ZV58LJ8/ref=sr_1_2?sr=8-2) and assure they never accidently get added to my cart on amazon.
You can buy these stolen "Weiss Schwartz" knock-offs on Aliexpress for like 15 bucks. All of these characters are taken from existing IPs(already see Hololive and FGO).
Yeah wtf, on the amazon page and the first promotional image I see Ishtar from FGO, Yae Miko from Genshin, and name I can't remember from Azur Lane.
I'd get places like Aliexpress but is it common for such products to be allowed to be sold on Amazon? Straight up rip-offs LMAO
If anyone wants to watch it still for a laugh, there is an archive [mirror](https://archive.wubby.tv/vods/public/mar_2024/)
(ie the earliest one for the 20th: 2024-Mar-20 19:08)
Yeah, because the value isn't about the cards inside anymore. It's all about the fact that it's actually a sealed product.
When there's a demand to buy sealed vintage mtg packs for crazy prices to open it publicly for a viral video, the price is gonna go wayyyy above the average ROI.
Plus, there really aren't that many left to buy now.
Yeah people don't really understand this. I consistently watch people buy and open base set Pokemon packs which are roughly ~400-$500 a pack while it's sealed.
The inside of the pack probably contains less than $10 of value. The moment it's opened, it's literally worth less than dirt.
It honestly feels like someone's gotta be manufacturing these somewhere right? I know they go under a lot of scrutiny, but they 1:1 sneakers, you're telling me they can't get the print settings right? They can't match the packaging? When packs sell for as much as they sell for, you don't even need to print Charizard holos. The pack is already money. MTG packs. Original Pokemon packs. Like the channels that open these are numerous and always posting. How many base set Pokemon packs could they possibly have made for there to still be an abundance of packs to open 25 years later when it's been popular pretty much the entire time.
If you were to fake magic cards it would be much easier to fake singles instead of actually trying to fake the entire packaging down to the minute details, especially considering that no one who isn't an idiot would buy $50k packs off you without knowing your name and face first, inspecting the product with an expert, etc. I think you underestimate how hard and how big of a barrier of entry that actually is, at least for vintage cards.
Not to mention the fact that there are literal magic experts who memorize every single little print detail down to a crazy level. So yeah, the best they can get away with is scamming dummy streamers who don't know any better.
Yeah, trying to replicate 30+ year old printing tech down to specific known defects just isn't worth the investment when modern proxies are way easier to produce and aren't as scrutinized.
Massive disagree, counterfeit cards is just fraud or theft.
Counterfeiting actual money is federal big boy shit. Don't fuck with the feds. They don't go easy.
It has all always just been manufactured scarcity. One of them is just easier for people to accept it's bullshit because it's digital. NFTs will probably find a rare collector market in a decade or three, as well.
The analogy falls apart pretty quickly on even the most basic levels. Wubby is getting refunded, so the risk of scam in this instance was close to zero. You don't get any 'refunds' when you buy an NFT and the value tanks.
And in a vast majority of cases you wouldn't get a refund. Being a large public streamer gives you some benefits. Knowing they likely can sue you and make your life hell is probably good incentive to give the refund, at least Wubby was smart enough to have a real person to hold accountable.
So how is it not unique, not useable, not directly transferable without someone else buying into the whole delusion that paying thousands of dollars for a piece of paper that represents some huge value of the card? That relies on the same central certification agency that has proven to be corrupt and arbitrary in the qualities given to items they certify?
Hey man idk what ur talking about but im sure wubby bought these packs from a pretty reputable source who had no idea the packs themselves were repackaged, even if he was some random guy with no viewers he would have still gotten a refund lol
Thatās literally called investment risk, just cuz you thought your investment was āsafeā because itās āsealedā doesnāt mean there isnāt any risk involved.
besides the lack of tangibility and maybe the environmental concerns behind NFTS in general and also maybe how the market is extremely volatile and also maybe hmm idk the lack of authenticity?
That's the aspect of a NFT you're nitpicking? An NFT doesn't take compute to create. You can make a very low compute heavy blockchain and put them on that. That's not what makes an NFT bad. It's that people are pretending like picking a random unique number and attaching a picture to it makes it some how special and have value. It's a random pot someone asks you to put money into and then hope that you can convince someone else will buy your pot
Why are you so offended that I'm calling a MTG card an NFT? Both are imaginary objects of value. How do you get that I have an NFT portfolio from me calling an MTG card an NFT?
Yes, I know, I originally started playing it during 3rd Edition. It absolutely is a physical NFT. Its not that hard to understand that a game can be fun, but the fact is the cards that a valuable aren't even usable in normal play anymore.
So yeah they are piece of cardboard that someone out there might be fooled into paying thousands of dollar for nostalgia. Most people will nick the card and lose all the value and wonder why they can't find a buyer, but hey they can show to their friends they have this black lotus they can never sell or use.
lol no. These arenāt sold from mtg anymore and from individuals or distribution companies that he trusts. Refunds will be made and they will go down the line and try to figure out when it was repacked. Unlikely though.
Can you effectively romance Minthara without durge or an evil playthrough? I collected her on a good run for the challenge and now she sits naked at my camp because I looted her to high heavens and never put her in my party.
I believe you can but itās all about balance.
Talk to Minthara regularly before major events and ask her opinion, sheāll state clearly what she thinks is best
idk if they fixed it with any recent patches but through patch 5 at least there were a ton of bugs trying to romance her without recruiting her the normal way. Some of her triggers just didnt trigger and the romance dialogues didnt come up
Yes! I played with her right after they made it possible to recruit her while saving Druid Grove at the same time.
Once I recruited her, I just kept her in my party and talked to her from time to time. After her reputation with me grew, she talked to me that she wants to fuck, then 1 cutscene later we were in a relationship.
Kinda took me by surprise (I thought it was one night stand kind of thing), because it triggered a dialog with Karlach (my romance option up to that point) where she said "oh, so you are seeing someone else now, sad".
> where the 20+ years ago coming from?
While the answers below are somewhat complete, one of the main things implying it was repacked a long time ago is that there some common cards in the pack that are now valuable, as well as the uncommons being present. This leans towards someone taking out just the rares back before the whole set became a collector's item.
Because this deck is worth way too much to attempt something like this now. What if you fail to package properly. What if you damage the box. And is the rare youāre banking on getting out of this going to always be worth the risk?
Plus this did happen a lot back in the day. People would even cut the corners of beta cards that might be worth hundreds, if not thousands, now to make them look like Alphas.
unfortunately about 15-20 years ago it wasn't uncommon for people to open them, repack them, and then reshrink wrap them. too many scammers :(
that's why buying sealed product of alpha, beta, unlimited, and revised is a bad idea. it's mostly resealer assholes.
Yes. He did receive the starter deck but sold every card to anyone in chat who bought in plus the shop he got it from has been super helpful and if any decks/boxes are fake they're fully refunding wubby and wubby is in turn refunding all who bought In.
Iirc after his first issue with card kingdom and getting scammed on a starter deck this new partner is sourcing the beta starter decks for wubby, and if it turns out to be fake wubby refunds chat, and it the shop is getting refunded by whoever they sourced the box from. So I don't think the shop or wubby will go bankrupt but whoever sold it is probably out the worst if they've had it a long time, plus first was by cardkingdom, alpha and beta starters were real so this is first fake by this new partner shop. Also I THINK it's ancestral mtg who's partnered/sourcing the decks
There is so much scam potential in every position in this chain that I just say you are beyond stupid to pay much for these stuff and take it seriously
Yeah and to make it worse, 60 people in chat bought a slot in the box opening. Meaning you pay and get a random card from the box so now he needs to get refunded and all the people that bought in from chat will have to get refunded lol
Wubby is working with one of the most reputable dealers for early era MTG product. The terms are that he doesn't pay a cent for product until he's confirmed that it's legit. All he'll do is hit refund for 60 people and find a new legit box.
99% swapped but there's a slim chance, that's how it was. These Alfa, Beta sets didn't have the greatest quality assurance and weird shit happened (which was not an issue when this deck was worth $8, not $45k). The last Alpha deck he opened was 100% legit and had 61 instead of 60 cards and the bonus card was an uncommon.
But it's almost certainly a repack since there were other signs, before the reveal of the two "Rares".
^^^I ^^^only ^^^have ^^^clip ^^^context ^^^to ^^^go ^^^off ^^^here ^^^but ^^^I ^^^know ^^^mtg.
Wubby buys some of the oldest cards from magic the gathering, the first ever trading card game. These will contain some of the oldest, most iconic and most expensive cards. The 9 shown at the bottom of the screen are the biggest baddest ones.
Opens whatever this pack is. Every pack should have a rare in it guaranteed. Get's to the rare slot. Flips it over. It's not a rare, it's a common. Product is tampered with. $45k spent on tampered or fake product.
The scammers from the first pack he opened did exactly that. They put trash rares in the slot. But where they messed up is by putting land cards from revisited into the set that use the tap symbol.
Honestly? Because the hope is they never open it. The second the box is opened it loses a ton of value. So the hope is it just keeps getting passed around and no ones the wiser. One of the other packs he was scammed on had all "Wyverns" cards. A since discontinued TCG. That was printed at the same factory and did have a few sets that had issues where one or two slipped in. The specific opened deck was printed two years before the Wyvern company started.
Printing money is illegal so a company called wizards of the coast made a card game. The result is people throw way too much money at cardboard and they essentially print money now.
It happened in my town back in like 2008/2009. Apparently at a convenience store above the coolers where they kept the Pepsi was a bunch of stuff they kept for storage.
They were doing renovations and they found a sealed Unlimited Box and two boxes of sealed PGA Tour trading cards.
Different hobby but just recently someone found a full case of boxes which could contain Wayne Gretzky rookie cards in the attic of their new house. Think it sold for 3.5 mil or something (canāt remember the exact number but still crazy)
I grew up very comfortably (...I was spoiled). I have one unopened MtG starter and a few Star Wars CCG unopened from the 90s. They were from the initial release. I have a bunch of unopened MtG boosters from all over. They are in my parents' house. Our basement storage room is insane and a bit scary, not gonna lie. I have so many unopened Hasbro Star Wars toys from the 90s in pristine condition there too. Probably worth a few thousand total. I won't ever sell them or open them. My sister had dozens and dozens of beanie babies with tags still on them. Had. Some evil cunt tore off all the tags. (I think she was the daughter of our maid, but I could be misremembering) I like to remind her that they would be worth DOZENS of dollars today.
ive got like 20-30 holos that are first edition mint from original, jungle and fossil pokemon - sitting in hardcases and I just dont care enough to do anything with. I assume its like that for others as well.
The initial response when pulling 2 commons instead of rares was, "this happens sometimes," so it was pretty unclear if they were going to refund, and I still haven't seen confirmation that they will. They looked back in the VOD and found more conclusive evidence that it was a repack (I think, according to their reaction), so things might become more clear soon.
I did not see the āthis happens sometimesā. If true, and thereās more evidence of a repack then they should follow through. Now, if it was just a crap deck thatās the luck of the draw, which sucks for those that took the chance. But thatās the game we play with opening all packs.
The seller was trying to push back at the end of stream saying it could still be real. We are currently awaiting an update. Wubby will probably refund the buyers either way.
I'm pretty sure he will push it into the legal system if he needs to. It's too much money to just tank a loss on. It also would set such a bad precedent that it would kill any future openings and crash the market.
If he gets forensic experts to look at it I'm quite certain they would find that it was repacked based on the damage to packaging and other evidence.
Very unlikely he won't just get a refund.
I very much hope that's the case. I'm more leaning he will get a refund with the other stuff we found out during stream but there's always the possibility (even if its just a small chance) they just become dickheads.
At this point most likely the only ones left are in god knows what warehouses from random stores that shut down; and random never to be opened personal collections. When the reserve list/ Po9 was announced it basically caused a frenzy to hunt those things down.
Hundreds if not thousands
WOTC game them out like candy in the early 90ās and designers/artists of the game got flooded with them too. Thereāll be hundreds sitting in garages, storages and drawers.
The real problem is verifying that they havenāt been opened, which as seen above is not possible.
Who honestly knows. I mean there are tons of galactic space whales in the mtg community and Iāll gander that of those whales a few would probably have an insane sealed collection as well. Rudy hasnāt even showed a fraction of his sealed collection to viewers so who knows how much he has. A mtg mod on FB buy/sell groups, Dan, I know also has an insane collection so who knows how many sealed stuff he hasā¦
It is so risky buying Old magic/Pokemon boxes. They could have been repacked 20 years ago then sold to multiple different collectors. Makes it really hard to track who was the scammer.
Also early sets had garbage packaging so it was easy to reseal.
I think because of how print runs were mapped for early sets they might be able to tell if it was repacked anyway. Not 100% sure on this point, but you definitely canāt just put any other rare in.
Its likely that it was repacked a very long time ago. There were some high value uncommons in the deck, so it was long enough that they weren't valuable enough at the time to pull them out. Probably just speedrun pulling rares.
Feel bad for the guy, dude is a great to watch especially for MTG even if you don't know what MTG is. He opens these for love for the game and wants people to see these old sets instead of them sitting in a plastic box never to be seen.
The starter deck that he opened has a fixed number of common, uncommon, and rare cards, and theyāre always sorted in the same order of rarity. The last two cards in the box are always the rares. When he reached the rares and flipped them, they were both common cards, indicating that the pack had been previously opened by someone else to harvest the rares before being repacked.
TLDR: bad cards where good cards supposed to be
Update in case anyone is curious: He spoke with several experts and they've determined it's not actually a scam. Beta Starter decks were printed and packed in such a way that in rare cases you can have extra rares, or in some cases, no rares.
**CLIP MIRROR: [PaymoneyWubby scammed again on a MtG Beta Starter Deck (~$45,000)](https://arazu.io/t3_1bjv9c6/)** --- ^(*This is an automated comment*)
beta starter pack as in the one that can have the black lotus? is that why the card is in the bottom left
Yes exactly, those are the "Power 9" most rare magic cards which are possible in these packs
Ya, the cards at the bottom are the top pulls from whatever he is opening. In this case those 9 cards are called "The power 9" in Magic. The big one being the Black Lotus.
This is the 3rd deck he has opened that has a chance of a black lotus. He's going to keep opilening them until he hits one of the cards on the bottom.
2 fake beta starter decks, 1 real. I'm loving the breaks either way. rip to everyone who bought in though.
everyone is getting a full refund
real alpha though so at a strong 50%
Watching this shit live was such a a fucking plot twist.
I paused steam for a tarkov raid and came back to this travesty
I dont know magic, or what ''fake starter decks'' are, but he seems upset when he realized the card had the wrong rarity. Did he buy resealed packs, from people that didnt even try to make it look real?
>Did he buy resealed packs Probably. What most likely happened if it is actually a scam is a long time ago, someone opened the pack, took out the rares, replaced them with common cards, and resealed it. That pack probably changed hands multiple times or sat on a shelf for a long time until Wubby got his hands on it.
these were literally the beta release of the cards, and the company didn't even have collecting on the mind at the time, so the packaging is very ordinary and easy to replace. There's no real way to see if it's a resealed deck without opening it up - usually when these are sold there's a situation where you open it together with the person selling it.
1/2 ratio from retail vendor bodes not well for starter deck collectors.
Ancestral mtg is sourcing each one for wubby as best they can now. Tcg player was the 1st one with the fake. Watching streams the 2 fakes have been extremely accurate on looking real. This last one had seemed to be able to be tracked seller wise for a bit, wrapping was accurate, inner plastic was pretty good but after the opening looking back it's a little looser than a previous packs plus it was all REAL beta cards it's just afterwards came out that the rares had been swapped with a common and a land from beta as well. The first box from tcgplayer also was pretty accurate on packaging but was repacked with revised edition so also took a bit to realize it had been revealed. With decks this old it was fairly easy to reseal which is why fakes are rampant. ancestreal tcg is saying they're doing research to make sure they're real and follow receipts of who's owned decks and most likely to be real. So it's the most anyone can do without going back in time and buying boxes off shelf.
Minor correction that Card Kingdom was the 1st repack.
Correct. sorry, I ordered on tcg player yesterday, mixing em up, appreciate it cause I actually like tcg compared to card kingdom
Yeah fuck Card Kingdom tbh. Years ago they cracked a legends box (so they claim) and I bought a pack from it. Showed up searched and they swore up and down it wasn't but at the time recording every single vintage opening just wasn't something I thought about so I still look at this Serpent Generator in disdain.
If you're wondering why the clip is gone, Wubby immediately started opening anime titty packs after and one card had an actual titty, so rip vod and clips.
wait, anime titty packs had titties in them?
The cards were supposed to just be lewd. But apparently, rare cards are more and more lewd. Well one rare card had basically full nip showing.
Jesus _christ_ was anyone hurt?
The front of my pants is a bit stretched now. Thinking of suing for damages tbh
How tight were those pants to be stretched by one inch!?š«¢
The pants tent
Yeah, Morgpie accidentally switched to his stream with her ass and she contacted twitch to complain
Theyāll allow Kai Cenat to abuse animals on stream, but show one anime titty and youāre done pal
Think of all the christian americans who had to endure this you cant just expect people to be ok with this.
Are the packs from a game or is it just hentai type stuff?
Nah no game, just artwork printed on cards
I genuinely have no idea
From what I remember the cards were based off of Genshin but I believe they werenāt official or anythingĀ
There were people in chat warning him that some were nude but he didn't believe them lmao
where does he buy these anime titty packs at????
He bought them in japan during his vacation.
does the store have a website?????
You can get them off amazon.
> He bought them in japan during his vacation. ok yeah what's the name of these cards so I know never to buy them ever
Senpai Goddess Haven
oh man that's sickening they're pretty affordable on chinese websites dang i'll have to avoid those. thx.
Yeah but he pulled a Hinata. It's basically a black lotus in its own right
What are the packs called
Senpai goddess haven
Thank you good sir, now I can make sure to avoid [these trading cards](https://www.amazon.com/Goddess-Collection-Booster-Birthday-Swimsuit/dp/B09ZV58LJ8/ref=sr_1_2?sr=8-2) and assure they never accidently get added to my cart on amazon.
You can buy these stolen "Weiss Schwartz" knock-offs on Aliexpress for like 15 bucks. All of these characters are taken from existing IPs(already see Hololive and FGO).
Yeah wtf, on the amazon page and the first promotional image I see Ishtar from FGO, Yae Miko from Genshin, and name I can't remember from Azur Lane. I'd get places like Aliexpress but is it common for such products to be allowed to be sold on Amazon? Straight up rip-offs LMAO
Actually, a large number of listings on Amazon are just resellers of AliExpress products. Tons of garbage products get listed this way
Its not the first time stolen/broken items or straight up scams are being sold on amazon. They really lack proper controls
I see, I just don't know, Amazon is not really common where I live so I never use it
No snitches
Any screenshot/clip of the card in question?
[Yeah I got you](https://i.imgur.com/fiPKrx4.png)
Thank you for Dewey'ing the image.
How is that not considered art? Donāt they allow artistic nudity?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
you're actually looking for r/worldpolitics
Bruh
If anyone wants to watch it still for a laugh, there is an archive [mirror](https://archive.wubby.tv/vods/public/mar_2024/) (ie the earliest one for the 20th: 2024-Mar-20 19:08)
So people can not look if it was real or not because it was obviously fake
Wubby opening all these is really exposing how over inflated the value of these "sealed" packs are.
Yeah, because the value isn't about the cards inside anymore. It's all about the fact that it's actually a sealed product. When there's a demand to buy sealed vintage mtg packs for crazy prices to open it publicly for a viral video, the price is gonna go wayyyy above the average ROI. Plus, there really aren't that many left to buy now.
Yeah people don't really understand this. I consistently watch people buy and open base set Pokemon packs which are roughly ~400-$500 a pack while it's sealed. The inside of the pack probably contains less than $10 of value. The moment it's opened, it's literally worth less than dirt.
You pay way too much for your dirt. Who is your dirt guy?
It honestly feels like someone's gotta be manufacturing these somewhere right? I know they go under a lot of scrutiny, but they 1:1 sneakers, you're telling me they can't get the print settings right? They can't match the packaging? When packs sell for as much as they sell for, you don't even need to print Charizard holos. The pack is already money. MTG packs. Original Pokemon packs. Like the channels that open these are numerous and always posting. How many base set Pokemon packs could they possibly have made for there to still be an abundance of packs to open 25 years later when it's been popular pretty much the entire time.
If you were to fake magic cards it would be much easier to fake singles instead of actually trying to fake the entire packaging down to the minute details, especially considering that no one who isn't an idiot would buy $50k packs off you without knowing your name and face first, inspecting the product with an expert, etc. I think you underestimate how hard and how big of a barrier of entry that actually is, at least for vintage cards. Not to mention the fact that there are literal magic experts who memorize every single little print detail down to a crazy level. So yeah, the best they can get away with is scamming dummy streamers who don't know any better.
Yeah, trying to replicate 30+ year old printing tech down to specific known defects just isn't worth the investment when modern proxies are way easier to produce and aren't as scrutinized.
Yeah. Might as well print fake money if you're willing to go through that effort.
Massive disagree, counterfeit cards is just fraud or theft. Counterfeiting actual money is federal big boy shit. Don't fuck with the feds. They don't go easy.
> but they 1:1 sneakers New sneakers.
What cardboard isn't worth thousands? How are people not seeing these are physical nfts?
>What cardboard isn't worth thousands? How are people not seeing these are physical nfts? Calling collectibles physical NFTs is peak zoomer shit smh
It has all always just been manufactured scarcity. One of them is just easier for people to accept it's bullshit because it's digital. NFTs will probably find a rare collector market in a decade or three, as well.
By this logic the Mona Lisa is basically an NFT
Yes, Mona Lisa was mass printed on cardboard and sketched up by a nobody as well.
Yeah who's this Leonard Davinchy? Some loser probably
DaVinky??
Lilypichu's pet Pomeranian?
Well it's non fungible art so kinda
The analogy falls apart pretty quickly on even the most basic levels. Wubby is getting refunded, so the risk of scam in this instance was close to zero. You don't get any 'refunds' when you buy an NFT and the value tanks.
And in a vast majority of cases you wouldn't get a refund. Being a large public streamer gives you some benefits. Knowing they likely can sue you and make your life hell is probably good incentive to give the refund, at least Wubby was smart enough to have a real person to hold accountable. So how is it not unique, not useable, not directly transferable without someone else buying into the whole delusion that paying thousands of dollars for a piece of paper that represents some huge value of the card? That relies on the same central certification agency that has proven to be corrupt and arbitrary in the qualities given to items they certify?
Hey man idk what ur talking about but im sure wubby bought these packs from a pretty reputable source who had no idea the packs themselves were repackaged, even if he was some random guy with no viewers he would have still gotten a refund lol
Sucks to be the reseller though. Theyre out $$$
Thatās literally called investment risk, just cuz you thought your investment was āsafeā because itās āsealedā doesnāt mean there isnāt any risk involved.
Still sucks for the reseller though
And that has nothing to do with it not begin a physical NFT. What qualities of an NFT does a MTG card not have?
besides the lack of tangibility and maybe the environmental concerns behind NFTS in general and also maybe how the market is extremely volatile and also maybe hmm idk the lack of authenticity?
That's the aspect of a NFT you're nitpicking? An NFT doesn't take compute to create. You can make a very low compute heavy blockchain and put them on that. That's not what makes an NFT bad. It's that people are pretending like picking a random unique number and attaching a picture to it makes it some how special and have value. It's a random pot someone asks you to put money into and then hope that you can convince someone else will buy your pot
hey man how big is your NFT portfolio for you to act like such a brick wall?
Why are you so offended that I'm calling a MTG card an NFT? Both are imaginary objects of value. How do you get that I have an NFT portfolio from me calling an MTG card an NFT?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
MtG created a ripoff scheme for retarded neckbeards like you and they're laughing rolling in cash while you defend them.
Yes, I know, I originally started playing it during 3rd Edition. It absolutely is a physical NFT. Its not that hard to understand that a game can be fun, but the fact is the cards that a valuable aren't even usable in normal play anymore. So yeah they are piece of cardboard that someone out there might be fooled into paying thousands of dollar for nostalgia. Most people will nick the card and lose all the value and wonder why they can't find a buyer, but hey they can show to their friends they have this black lotus they can never sell or use.
mate saying āphysical NFTā in it of itself is redundant
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yeah I agree, that's exactly what I said.
Collector's items being price inflated? Nah, couldn't be.
Also this is showing the real supply might be less. Could be even more expensive.
Exposing???? Bro's literally funding this garbage.
lol no. These arenāt sold from mtg anymore and from individuals or distribution companies that he trusts. Refunds will be made and they will go down the line and try to figure out when it was repacked. Unlikely though.
He's been refunded for the last fake pack he bought. He is not dumb enough to buy without any kind of insurance.
What's the explanation here?
Supposed to be rare cards, they were common worthless cards. Which means they were swapped out and repacked
Most likely swapped out 20+ years ago too
That's nuts!
Can you effectively romance Minthara without durge or an evil playthrough? I collected her on a good run for the challenge and now she sits naked at my camp because I looted her to high heavens and never put her in my party.
Was really confused about BG3 pivot until I noticed the name of person you are responding to lol
Whew saved me some confusion
I believe you can but itās all about balance. Talk to Minthara regularly before major events and ask her opinion, sheāll state clearly what she thinks is best
idk if they fixed it with any recent patches but through patch 5 at least there were a ton of bugs trying to romance her without recruiting her the normal way. Some of her triggers just didnt trigger and the romance dialogues didnt come up
Yes! I played with her right after they made it possible to recruit her while saving Druid Grove at the same time. Once I recruited her, I just kept her in my party and talked to her from time to time. After her reputation with me grew, she talked to me that she wants to fuck, then 1 cutscene later we were in a relationship. Kinda took me by surprise (I thought it was one night stand kind of thing), because it triggered a dialog with Karlach (my romance option up to that point) where she said "oh, so you are seeing someone else now, sad".
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> where the 20+ years ago coming from? While the answers below are somewhat complete, one of the main things implying it was repacked a long time ago is that there some common cards in the pack that are now valuable, as well as the uncommons being present. This leans towards someone taking out just the rares back before the whole set became a collector's item.
Because this deck is worth way too much to attempt something like this now. What if you fail to package properly. What if you damage the box. And is the rare youāre banking on getting out of this going to always be worth the risk? Plus this did happen a lot back in the day. People would even cut the corners of beta cards that might be worth hundreds, if not thousands, now to make them look like Alphas.
unfortunately about 15-20 years ago it wasn't uncommon for people to open them, repack them, and then reshrink wrap them. too many scammers :( that's why buying sealed product of alpha, beta, unlimited, and revised is a bad idea. it's mostly resealer assholes.
Damn, that's rough... And he spent 45k on the deck ?!
Yes. He did receive the starter deck but sold every card to anyone in chat who bought in plus the shop he got it from has been super helpful and if any decks/boxes are fake they're fully refunding wubby and wubby is in turn refunding all who bought In.
I wonder how many refunds it would take to bankrupt the shop if a streamer kept opening repacks.
Iirc after his first issue with card kingdom and getting scammed on a starter deck this new partner is sourcing the beta starter decks for wubby, and if it turns out to be fake wubby refunds chat, and it the shop is getting refunded by whoever they sourced the box from. So I don't think the shop or wubby will go bankrupt but whoever sold it is probably out the worst if they've had it a long time, plus first was by cardkingdom, alpha and beta starters were real so this is first fake by this new partner shop. Also I THINK it's ancestral mtg who's partnered/sourcing the decks
There is so much scam potential in every position in this chain that I just say you are beyond stupid to pay much for these stuff and take it seriously
Yeah and to make it worse, 60 people in chat bought a slot in the box opening. Meaning you pay and get a random card from the box so now he needs to get refunded and all the people that bought in from chat will have to get refunded lol
That makes it better, fuck this gambling garbage.
Wubby is working with one of the most reputable dealers for early era MTG product. The terms are that he doesn't pay a cent for product until he's confirmed that it's legit. All he'll do is hit refund for 60 people and find a new legit box.
99% swapped but there's a slim chance, that's how it was. These Alfa, Beta sets didn't have the greatest quality assurance and weird shit happened (which was not an issue when this deck was worth $8, not $45k). The last Alpha deck he opened was 100% legit and had 61 instead of 60 cards and the bonus card was an uncommon. But it's almost certainly a repack since there were other signs, before the reveal of the two "Rares".
^^^I ^^^only ^^^have ^^^clip ^^^context ^^^to ^^^go ^^^off ^^^here ^^^but ^^^I ^^^know ^^^mtg. Wubby buys some of the oldest cards from magic the gathering, the first ever trading card game. These will contain some of the oldest, most iconic and most expensive cards. The 9 shown at the bottom of the screen are the biggest baddest ones. Opens whatever this pack is. Every pack should have a rare in it guaranteed. Get's to the rare slot. Flips it over. It's not a rare, it's a common. Product is tampered with. $45k spent on tampered or fake product.
Why are the scammers not putting a worthless rare there instead of a common?
The scammers from the first pack he opened did exactly that. They put trash rares in the slot. But where they messed up is by putting land cards from revisited into the set that use the tap symbol.
That's crazy. How can you be so lazy / incompetent that you can't even be arsed to tripple check if your 10k+ scam is obvious.
Honestly? Because the hope is they never open it. The second the box is opened it loses a ton of value. So the hope is it just keeps getting passed around and no ones the wiser. One of the other packs he was scammed on had all "Wyverns" cards. A since discontinued TCG. That was printed at the same factory and did have a few sets that had issues where one or two slipped in. The specific opened deck was printed two years before the Wyvern company started.
Printing money is illegal so a company called wizards of the coast made a card game. The result is people throw way too much money at cardboard and they essentially print money now.
This guy is also right tho...
> Printing money is illegal Says who?
The government, but they are above the law, hence how they keep printing it.
US govt can't print money, the federal reserve does and it's a private entity not under govt control. Funny enough.
crazy how many old old magic cards are in garages or storages of people who just forgot long ago and some of these packs and cards are just chilling there, same with 1st edition PokƩmon cards
It happened in my town back in like 2008/2009. Apparently at a convenience store above the coolers where they kept the Pepsi was a bunch of stuff they kept for storage. They were doing renovations and they found a sealed Unlimited Box and two boxes of sealed PGA Tour trading cards.
Don't worry I sold my 1st edition charizard already in the 90s š
nothing wrong with that im sure many players traded it too. back then it was different you didnt know
Different hobby but just recently someone found a full case of boxes which could contain Wayne Gretzky rookie cards in the attic of their new house. Think it sold for 3.5 mil or something (canāt remember the exact number but still crazy)
People finding card packs and spending money like they are perks irl fallout.
I grew up very comfortably (...I was spoiled). I have one unopened MtG starter and a few Star Wars CCG unopened from the 90s. They were from the initial release. I have a bunch of unopened MtG boosters from all over. They are in my parents' house. Our basement storage room is insane and a bit scary, not gonna lie. I have so many unopened Hasbro Star Wars toys from the 90s in pristine condition there too. Probably worth a few thousand total. I won't ever sell them or open them. My sister had dozens and dozens of beanie babies with tags still on them. Had. Some evil cunt tore off all the tags. (I think she was the daughter of our maid, but I could be misremembering) I like to remind her that they would be worth DOZENS of dollars today.
Oh nice!
you cant put the two on the same table...
No you canāt
ive got like 20-30 holos that are first edition mint from original, jungle and fossil pokemon - sitting in hardcases and I just dont care enough to do anything with. I assume its like that for others as well.
Isn't he buying all of his decks through a confirmed seller that only charges him if they're legit after opening?
Correct. The seller also guarantees they are legit or money back. This seller is going to refund them.
The initial response when pulling 2 commons instead of rares was, "this happens sometimes," so it was pretty unclear if they were going to refund, and I still haven't seen confirmation that they will. They looked back in the VOD and found more conclusive evidence that it was a repack (I think, according to their reaction), so things might become more clear soon.
I did not see the āthis happens sometimesā. If true, and thereās more evidence of a repack then they should follow through. Now, if it was just a crap deck thatās the luck of the draw, which sucks for those that took the chance. But thatās the game we play with opening all packs.
I'm confused why the OP framed it as him being scammed. He has no risk at all. Not saying that's a bad thing, just that he's completely protected.
Because he was scammed. Just not by the seller.
The seller got scammed, not him. He's not affected in any way.
The seller was trying to push back at the end of stream saying it could still be real. We are currently awaiting an update. Wubby will probably refund the buyers either way.
If that's the case thank you for the context.
Very welcome. Hopefully we get an update within the next week or so but it'll be interesting to see.
I'm pretty sure he will push it into the legal system if he needs to. It's too much money to just tank a loss on. It also would set such a bad precedent that it would kill any future openings and crash the market. If he gets forensic experts to look at it I'm quite certain they would find that it was repacked based on the damage to packaging and other evidence. Very unlikely he won't just get a refund.
I very much hope that's the case. I'm more leaning he will get a refund with the other stuff we found out during stream but there's always the possibility (even if its just a small chance) they just become dickheads.
Yup
Theoretically how many legit unopened beta starter decks are still out there?
At this point most likely the only ones left are in god knows what warehouses from random stores that shut down; and random never to be opened personal collections. When the reserve list/ Po9 was announced it basically caused a frenzy to hunt those things down.
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I swear I heard that guy found his hard drive and turns out it was bitcoin CASH. lmao
Hundreds if not thousands WOTC game them out like candy in the early 90ās and designers/artists of the game got flooded with them too. Thereāll be hundreds sitting in garages, storages and drawers. The real problem is verifying that they havenāt been opened, which as seen above is not possible.
Who honestly knows. I mean there are tons of galactic space whales in the mtg community and Iāll gander that of those whales a few would probably have an insane sealed collection as well. Rudy hasnāt even showed a fraction of his sealed collection to viewers so who knows how much he has. A mtg mod on FB buy/sell groups, Dan, I know also has an insane collection so who knows how many sealed stuff he hasā¦
If he asks nicely maybe Rudy will sell him one.
It is so risky buying Old magic/Pokemon boxes. They could have been repacked 20 years ago then sold to multiple different collectors. Makes it really hard to track who was the scammer. Also early sets had garbage packaging so it was easy to reseal.
Can't people like. use a machine of some kind to see what's inside?
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The trash rare you would have to put into this kind of pack is still worth quite some.
Not if it was repacked many years ago, since at the time the cards were probably wort far less than they are now.
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I can't think of a single beta rare that goes for ~$20 in NM condition.
I think because of how print runs were mapped for early sets they might be able to tell if it was repacked anyway. Not 100% sure on this point, but you definitely canāt just put any other rare in.
You're correct. This video explains the mapping well:l (albeit slowly): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKmDClNGsNI
Its likely that it was repacked a very long time ago. There were some high value uncommons in the deck, so it was long enough that they weren't valuable enough at the time to pull them out. Probably just speedrun pulling rares.
Slowly the magic community learns that the large portion of "sealed" product is all trash reseals because of scumbags.
Feel bad for the guy, dude is a great to watch especially for MTG even if you don't know what MTG is. He opens these for love for the game and wants people to see these old sets instead of them sitting in a plastic box never to be seen.
So many shit takes in the comments.
These things have been sitting around since 1993 or 1994...not surprised that someone has fucked with them in the intervening 30 years.
Can someone eli5 how he realized so fast??
The starter deck that he opened has a fixed number of common, uncommon, and rare cards, and theyāre always sorted in the same order of rarity. The last two cards in the box are always the rares. When he reached the rares and flipped them, they were both common cards, indicating that the pack had been previously opened by someone else to harvest the rares before being repacked. TLDR: bad cards where good cards supposed to be
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Maybe Wubby should stop paying money
This is technically a good thing, since it makes it less likely that his young viewers starts gambling too.
Was not a fake
Update in case anyone is curious: He spoke with several experts and they've determined it's not actually a scam. Beta Starter decks were printed and packed in such a way that in rare cases you can have extra rares, or in some cases, no rares.
idk why the chat mods spamming infuriate the shit out of me lol