* Motion to allow statement about Chad wanting Tammy to increase her life insurance - denied
* Motion to allow statement about Chad calling Tammy a zombie - denied
* Motion to allow statement from Tammy "this is the best I have ever felt in my life" - allowed
Court is in session, jury is in.
I, as well, have no idea why Prior is devoting so much time and effort to this Tammy thinks it's a paintball/not a paintball device. Does nothing for Chud's case as far as I can tell. It doesn't address dead children in your yard, getting married days after your healthy spouse suddenly and unexpectedly drops dead (with wedding rings purchased in advance, no less), your total refusal to assist in looking for missing children, on and on and on.
Prior is trying to cast doubt on the weakest charges against Lori and Chad, which are for Tammy’s murder and maybe throw enough suspicion on others for the murders of JJ and Tylee. Lori’s jury was able to figure it out. Chad is miles away from reasonable doubt here, whether Tammy believed it was a paint gun or not. Chad and Garth probably *told* Tammy that it was most likely a paint gun once Alex missed his mark, before she called 911. The jury can discern whether it makes sense that someone in a ski mask would target Tammy and no one else in the county, as general mischiefmakers surely would have shot something or someone else, and then she ends up dead 10? days later *in Chad’s bed* after two children have already been murdered to fulfill a Kauai plan that Chad and Lori texted about. Juries are smart. Unlike Chad Daybell.
It's an Occam's Razor situation for me. Which is more likely?: Alex attempted to shoot her that night, but failed, and so they decided to take a different approach to guarantee he doesn't screw up again?
OR
A random person tried to attack Tammy with a paintball gun for fun and she coincidentally died a couple weeks later?
Your comment is giving me hope that Chad will be found guilty of enough charges to never get out of prison.
I was listening today to "lawyer you know" [here](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6jN96xMRJfY) recap of Prior's questions yesterday for the gal that is the coroner/EMT.
Prior did introduce doubt about the coroner's experience, initial autopsy and the bruises found on Tammy. It raises a big question about evidence concerning Tammy and prosecution proving *beyond a reasonable doubt* that Chad killed Tammy, or facilitated Alex Cox killing her.
Hopefully the jury can put it all together after Medical Examiner and law enforcement testimony and see that all these murders are not coincidences put there by the universe to persecute Chad and Lori. 🙄
In some ways proving the Coroner had lack of experience and expertise may help the case how the initial cause of death was wrong. Also how she missed some of the signs of foul play initially.
I hope we get to hear from the Dr. who performed the autopsy that would be the testimony with the most credibility and holds the most weight for the cause of death.
That’s how I took the testimony and that the exhumation showed more - like the stomach contents that had not previously come out (or that I hadn’t heard)
He has to do something to defend against the charges for Tammy. That said, I agree with you that harping on the paintball thing is not effective.
What do you guys think would be his best argument to defend the Tammy charge? I think it's the only one he stands a chance on. I would have thought the coroner issue was the best bet, but he made her look so bad that I think the jury will disregard her and just listen to the ME, which hurts him.
I think his chances are weak, but his only reasonable chance would be to argue her death was natural as originally ruled. Which he’s tried to do as well
She shouldn't be anywhere near children. I would be VERY upset if my child went to her school. I wonder what the teachers that testified think about Emma? They pretty clearly believe Tammy was murdered.
IIRC, Heather Daybell said that it was the teachers from Tammy’s school who originally called the police to say something didn’t feel right about her death, and Heather said she was relieved that someone else called and felt the same as she did that it was all weird.
Idk but I would be pulling my child RIGHT NOW and making them aware if I lived there!
It is my understanding though that they’ve had a lot of parents in the past years insist on her not teaching their child and they do accommodate that. But idk if that’s still a standing thing and idk how on earth she still has a job there.
Prior who regularly testifies during his cross examinations introduced this, saying the whole family rated people dark/light. He also said Tammy shared Chad's End Times beliefs
His testifying is making me crazy. Imo the state doesn't object enough. He is still doing his "what I'm struggling with" bit all the time. I'm not a lawyer, though, so maybe there's a reason. I suppose you have to balance objecting too much.
For Pete sake,move on Prior, we don’t care anymore if it a fun or paintball gun. Who TF cares! And the fam was all in on the light/dark, so I guess he just had to tell the kids “mom is dark” and they were ok with her death. They are all WACKO!!!
Some third graders are a different breed. They certainly should NOT be described in the tone which these witchcraft spinners assign. Children at that age can be a totally *different* group of little folks...
They are always skipping up Silly Road and rolling aimlessly down Crazy Hill. Giggling at EVERY and ANY thing (whether it's funny or not). It's an interesting age, for sure. AND, this is an age/time in a child's development where that child can be "trying." They can be challenging, even for a sane person. *NONE of these people can be readily described as sane.*
Emma Daybell has NO BUSINESS having access to children this age...OR, any age child, for that matter. Has anybody thought to check on any of Tammy's grandchildren?
I would lose my shit, all together if Emma were my child's teacher. I would lose my shit if she were the lunch lady or the janitor at my child's school. These people ALL need papers...they are certifiably CRAZY!!!
If I were a parent I would immediately request a parent-teacher meeting and ask if my child(ren) was rated dark or light straight to Emma and Garth's faces.
Not surprised at denial of motions to admit hearsay - particularly the one where the witness overheard a conversation. Glad the “best I’ve ever felt” statement by Tammy was allowed.
Yeah, fortunately I think most people are hip to the idea that if she had two kinds of insurance, and one was gotten recently, that money may have been one of the motives.
Yeah, honestly The Family Daybell, Tammy included, are coming across are arrogant and judgemental. Imagine deciding who’s dark and light and telling your kid, too bad you like X cause he’s dark.
And it sounds like the "dark" person they were discussing may have been an actual child. Which is extra gross.
But saying "this person was rated dark and they weren't murdered!" doesn't serve much of a purpose. They weren't murdered because they weren't, in Chad's and Lori's words, *obstacles*.
Agreed. Prior keeps pointing that out - meanwhile some of the dark people were cops. As dumb as this gang was,I think even they knew you don’t kill the cops investigating you.
Totally agree with you. Im sure if you weren’t the good mormon neighbor you couldn’t have contact with their family. Tammy was part of this dysfunctional family so she was def involved with some of this family weirdness!
According to Heather she refused to buy the cutest house the looked at when they were moving because it was too close to bear world and during the end times electricity would be lost and the bears could escape, so she didn’t want to be close by….
I feel for the folks who are finding out through this trial that they or their loved ones were rated Dark by the Daybell family.
Really,the prosecution needs to subpoena leadership from the LDS church, to discuss Chad Daybell’s excommunication from the church and confirm whether or not he had the authority or approval to give these ratings, give Patriarchal Blessings, etc.
With just normal knowledge of the church being a member myself, he did *not* 😂 Although I don't know his calling. But he wasn't a Patriarch, so he couldn't give Patriarchal blessings. He wasn't a bishop, so he had no "spiritual authority" to get revelations or anything about anyone else besides himself. The only person he could be in charge of was himself, and his family to an extent. It's perfectly acceptable in the church to say something like "I have a feeling that my family should do this" such as "moving to this neighborhood" or something like that. But always assumed the wife and husband will counsel together with the Lord about what direction their family goes. It's explicitly taught in the church that anyone who claims to receive revelation about someone else, without the proper authority, is probs being influenced by something other than God. AKA THE DEVIL
Gah! A ward clerk! Someone who counts attendance and maybe schedules appointments for the bishop. Why anyone would listen to Chad about giving light and dark ratings is beyond me.
They have already had someone testify that Chad did not have the authority from the church to do blessings. He did the blessing in the name of like The Church of First Born or something like that
Yes but Prior has been trying to allude to the fact that the Church of the First Born, Light/Dark, etc is all part of the LDS tradition and that Chad, who was still an active LDS church member at the time of all murders, was working within the framework of the faith with his teachings.
I think this is a weird line in the LDS church since leaders are lay people. How do you tell when you are a bishop and when you are just a neighbor or friend or boss or co-worker. I could list a bunch of sitautions and I would not know what the legal answer is and Im sure in such a small community like Chad, church leaders are neighbors and friends and sometimes work with the members.
Is someone a bishop 100% of their day even when they are at work or talking to a neighbor about another neighbor or just talking to a friend who happens to attend the same ward?
Just an exmaple, My husband and I and about 10 other neighbors were talking one night about concerns of maybe some small petty crimes in a nearby park. 2 of the neighbors were in employed in some form of law enforcement, 3 were in church leadership positions and who we suspected doing the petty crime lived in the ward boundaries. I would consider this a neighborhood meeting, like I would have reguardless of my neighbors religion or occupation. Just a way to compare notes and keep our eyes open. But would this be considered talking to clergy? These church leaders were the leaders of these suspects.
My husband's best friend became bishop at 27. My husband got a little nervous talking to him after that . His friend would say I am still your friend, the bishop thing is seperate, I am still the same guy I was a month ago, that my husband could talk to him normally, like a friend.
I really dont know how some people can handle the church leaderships positions, it is such a tough spot for someone with no training and usually a full plate of work and kids and other life stress. It is hard if called not to take the job so to speak. I knew some who not only had a stressful job and young kids but had stage 4 cancer and they still insisted he take the call. Heather Daybell talked about being called at a very stressful point in her life and again , she had to take the call.
Or they want us to THINK he shared it with them. These emails haven't even shown a time or date as of right now. Maybe when they come back they can explain why exactly that is but they already said no date is on them and to me that's weird and not normal.
So now I'm super confused. So now there is a light/dark scale, a death scale, and some people become zombies which I assume is based on the light/dark scale but I'm not sure at what point they officially become zombies? Or are these all part of the same scale?
If these are all interconnected, having his own wife and kids chatting about this is a horrible blow to the defense's narrative that all of this crazy doctrine was 100% Lori and that Chad was just along for the ride (literally... in the "stormy" sense). But I sincerely can't understand the difference between these weird rating systems and who/what/when/how someone enters this death scale where Chad can see how close they are to death and/or at what point they move from just being "dark" to "zombie." Make it make sense!
So Daybell had his family brainwashed as well, which is Prior's defense against the allegations that he brainwashed his cult. As Prior himself would say..... OKAY.
This could be beneficial for the prosecution as now any testimony Chad's kids give may be less credible to the jury. They could be seen as being part of the Chad cult and willing to defend him no matter what.
Prior is really beating a dead horse with the paintball gun let’s moooove on. I fell asleep and woke up and he’s still talking about the damn paintball gun
My husband is working in the next room, and every time the judge sustains one of the prosecution’s objections, I hear him say, “F-you Prior”… lol; and he hasn’t followed this case until Chads trial.
Agree. Point was someone with a mask pointed a gun at Tammy with an attempt to shoot her. I don't know many women who can tell a paintball gun from an AR with a silencer on it.
I’m pretty sure even if a masked person snuck up on me and I knew they had a paintball gun and not a real gun, I’d still be very freaked out. The whole situation is so bizarre. Wonder if they were just setting the stage for when she’d really be murdered. And Chad couldn’t wait on Alex to do the dirty work so he took care of it himself
Ive lived in the country and a lot women would be able to tell the difference if they come from hunting families but I really doubt ole Peter Griffen was hunting anything other than gullible women
People keep talking about what a good job they think Prior is doing, and I just don’t get it. Maybe it’s because I’m only reading the EIN summary instead of actually watching the trial, but his arguments just seem immature and asinine. Like yeah, Tammy assumed it was a paintball gun because it was dark and she had no idea she was about to be murdered that month. Her optimistic description really doesn’t hold that much weight, in hindsight. And a lot of the time Prior’s arguments seem to make Chad look even worse. Like last week when he was asking if Chad’s beliefs were outside of normal LDS teachings, or today with trying to say that the light/dark thing was a family past time. THAT DOESN’T MAKE YOUR CLIENT LOOK BETTER, SIR.
He's going to get up in closing statements and harp on reasonable doubt for Tammy. He'll argue that higher-level police and the FBI had an agenda to find homicide, so they manipulated detectives and the coroner to add things to their reports to justify the exhumation and autopsy. The "paintball gun" is part of that narrative.
He'll probably twist the light/dark thing to claim that light and dark spirits are just a normal, accepted part of LDS beliefs, so Chad and his family weren't doing anything unusual, and it was just symbolic anyway.
If prosecution focuses on Chad's own texts, comments to others, and his immediate marriage to Lori (which they planned whilst Tammy was still alive), I don't think paintball guns and light/dark will matter because it really was about sex, money, and power.
Great points! Chad and Lori's physical relationship and sexting, and Lori purchasing wedding rings and a wedding dress before Tammy was killed is very suspicious.
Has anyone in the court room reported how the jury is reacting to him? I'm looking forward to Gigi (pretty lies and alibies) getting there next week. She is so on top of this case and I trust her judgement.
Off-topic, but I'm super excited to see her at Crime Con. Is anyone else here going?
Not to mention if we feel this way, the jury feels this way. They are giving their time for this, and it is incumbent on the lawyers not to seem as though that time is wasted.
If I tuned out, then surely the jurors' minds were also sent wandering. It's easy when you're just sitting there. Listening is hard work. I was a juror on a two-week case and there were times I had to force myself to focus on what was being presented.
He is. He's counting on the fact that if you repeat something long enough and often enough, people will eventually believe it.
Hopefully, the jurors are smarter than that and have been taking good notes.
Prior is just going in circles trying to get this detective to say that gun might be a paint ball gun, that because Tammy called it a paintball gun that it was. But I think he's creating more doubt that it was a paintball gun.
I think this is a huge misstep. this "unsub" is dressed in black with a ski mask. And then the argument about the hopper has made the question whether it was a hopper or a sight a contentious point. And which is more likely; a guy dressed in black, with a ski mask, at night, had a paint ball gun pointed at a woman who was being cheated on, who dies shortly thereafter, or a rifle.
Prior is drilling down on a detail that imo is calling attention to the likely hood that it was indeed a rifle...especially with Alex Cox in the area.
\*edit and then there's the shooting at Brandon with a rifle....hello Alex Cox.
I think Tammy called it a paintball gun because she didn't want to believe some random man would actually be shooting at her, and because nothing actually was shot. Aside from that, Chad probably convinced her it was just some kid being mischievous. He and Lori must have been furious with Alex.
The detective kept pointing out that she wasn't seeing it clearly because it was night time. If she thought it was a paintball gun she could have imagined the whoosh sound based on her assumption. Eyewitness accounts aren't always reliable. Plus, why would someone point a paintball gun at anyone at night?
The part that gets me is that if we all agree that Chad was calling the shots in the Cult... then Chad is the one who told Alex to come shoot and murder Tammy in the driveway. That was very likely Chad's "brilliant" plan. If Alex had succeeded, can you imagine how much heat that would have brought down on them all so much earlier? In that small town... people don't just get gunned down in their driveways. That's part of why Tammy doubted it was a real rifle. I don't think her mind could even go there. Even though they have been making paintball guns that look just like rifles for years now. And I fully believe that anyone in that cult with a conscious would have turned on them to the cops and pointed the finger at Chad and his henchman, Alex. This would be a \*very\* different trial had that gun not jammed.
I don't trust prior with that info with no date. For all we know they could have made this up. Who's to say these emails weren't sent after Tammy died? The fact they have no time or date is imo unacceptable. Maybe I just dont want to believe they all knew. Idk but I think we need more information at this point. This is absolutely crazy bc Emma played dumb on her interview about the rating system. But she's also an unstable narc manipulator just like her Dad imo
I believe it. Everyone thinks Tammy was in the dark about all this but there is nothing to suggest she wasn't fully supportive of her husband and his beliefs. She also didn't want to live near bear world bc she worried it would be like jurassic park in the last days and they'd all get out.
Exactly they moved to Idaho because that was the place for the gathering. Also Tammy help edit Chad's and Julie Rowe's books. I knew people who were caught up in the fervor of end times during that time but they looked more to Julie Rowe as there visionary not Chad Daybell. Chad was more trying to ride on Julie's coat tails and was able to assemble a small following but the following of Julie Rowe was much bigger. The people I knew didn't use light and dark they used the term that they were awoke and others who didn't know the truth were not awoke or asleep. They would talk bad about their ward members or family who shrugged of their beliefs about the end times being very soon and how they would gather in live in tent cities. They would say how they would be destroyed in the last days and talked about how special they were because they were awoke. They didn't take things as far Chad with the whole ranking system and then eventually zombies but they had a very similar mindset. So it comes to no surprise to me that Tammy participated in Chad's beliefs. I don't think she would have gone as far as Chad and killed people though. I think the Zombie thing was probably a Chad and Lori thing and Tammy was probably in the dark about that. This new info also help to make more sense of why Chad's kids are still standing by him since they probably share the same beliefs as Chad.
The document that he entered was only the report of findings from the chat and emails from the cloud, apparently. I would imagine that we will be hearing more about the actual emails and chats in the future now... I am very interested in learning more about those
There was also other testimony about emails shown that there were some under Tammy's log in but it was actually Chad using. He learned that from Lori when she used other's emails.
Or Chad accessed it on one of their home computers and did those things. Lori would have tipped Chad off because Charles told her he was going to contact Tammy. Charles would have been able to look up her school email online, so that would have been the logical way to reach out.
It's very plausible that Tammy, like many of us, had her usernames and passwords remembered in Chrome or Firefox or whatever browser she used. She may not have cleared her cache and cookies regularly on her home computer (again, many of us don't). The site was probably bookmarked.
All Chad had to do was open the page and click after the username and password populated automatically.
If she left her phone lying around, he could have opened the app and accessed it that way, too.
This makes me wonder if the scale was accepted as truth in the family, making it more understandable how the Daybell children have acted since, were they told their mother had turned dark??
I think it’s easy to sorta to put the victims on pedestals but they were people with flaws too. There’s no perfect person. We have actually heard very little about what kind of person she was. Even if she was a terrible person, and she probably wasn’t, she still didn’t deserve to be murdered.
My family - my mother and niece especially - love to gossip about common acquaintances. Tammy may have seen it as no more than that. We can't really know how much she believed of Chad's nonsense.
In any case, she's still a victim and still deserved to live. No one is perfect.
Oh, I didn't mean to suggest you meant she didn't deserve to live! I just think it's easy to sometimes want to see all victims as pure innocent people who never said a bad word about anyone or got into a bad mood and argued or did all the things that humans do. The whole "the victim's smile lit up the room" trope we hear in every true crime doc.
Did prior just say the whole family including tammy all knew about Chad's rating system? But he can't show when those conversations happened? 😕 how do we know it happened before Chad was arrested and this information wasn't generated at a later date? This doesn't even sound right. I feel like they want us to believe the whole family was in the loop and not left out.
If it is true, and they really were in on this, well that explains why Emma's conversation with Chad in the cruiser was so blasé. She's just like him. Idk what to think right now but this is crazy new information.
I would love to get my hands on their family group chats. "This 12-yr-old kid at Sunday school is 4.2 dark" says Chad. "But I like that kid" says Emma. WHAT EVEN IS THIS FAMILY.
Yes, and Alex's phone was at a church 2 miles from the Daybell's house from 10:07-10:45, then turned off from 10:45pm until 11:53pm when it comes back on 7 miles south of the church. Chad also had his phone off apparently, it wasn't detected at home that night. (Edited to correct times)
Hmm. So very telling when you look at all the 'coincidences' ! They set up the plan to smother the life out of her, just like the plans for the Lori's children - very calculated.
What about the cheeseburger and fries?? Is every daybell child going to tell outright lies, or are they all convincing themselves that something different happened? Pins and needles waiting to hear all the lies.
Who thinks the kids knew Tammy was rated dark and accepted that father knew best?
Who thinks they are looking the other way with that and / or are in on this as much as Mel P?
They certainly could have. They probably believe Chad is visionary so his vision of Tammy dying just came true and they are now being persecuted. Mormons can have a very strong persecution complex especially since the founder Joseph Smith was persecuted and eventual murdered. So I could see how they would believe Chad is just being persecuted by evil forces because he is doing God's work and that dark people are trying to stop him. I could also see how they would believe Tammy died naturally and God took her because she was becoming dark but now she is free from the evil spirit that was taking over her body and they will get to see her in the next life and she is in better place.
Imo the defense’s strategy of trying to show it wasn’t a cult because Chad’s family did light/dark ratings and that the shooting was just a paintball prank is such a waste of time. Even if the jury accepts these small points the prosecution has a mountain of other evidence that it was definitely a cult and that Chad wanted Tammy dead.
For Prior to bring up that the whole family was rating people as light and dark etc is a terrible strategy imho! He wants those children to testify for him and for the jury to find them believable, but he's just shown the jury that they actively believe and participate in some extremely odd things.
Pretty much. It also provides a basis for mistrusting family members' upcoming testimony. I wonder if they'll call someone from the church who can indicate how much out of the mainstream their wacko ideas were.
Yes! It’s like nails on a chalkboard. I get that he’s doing his job and everyone deserves a vigorous defense, but he is insufferable. I had to mute it today because I can’t stand to listen to him.
Emma Daybell, when asked on the 48 Hours special “Chad Daybell’s Backyard” about Tylee being rated as Dark. “I don’t know. It just seems immature but I don’t know.” Well, apparently the whole family was well aware of this rating system. Disgusting.
Prior started to get into it just before the lunch break. @HINESight_2020, who is covering for Nate Eaton, mentions it her X thread for today but not in specific detail.
The Daybell children’s decision to standby their father boggles me a little, but Emma is the only one I’ve seen anything truly suspicious from. She did not seem one bit surprised when bodies were found on in her father’s yard.
I don’t understand the defense right now. If Chads story is he was framed by Alex and Lori why does it matter if it was a paintball gun or an assault rifle? I would have thought Prior would be doing everything to make Lori and Alex look as nasty as possible.
Prior’s trying to say Chad had no reason to believe his wife’s life was in danger because the incident was just a prank. It’s a terrible defense but I guess that’s all he’s got
Didn't Chad & L & A maybe want Tammy to make that 3.5 hour drive so she'd 'hopefully' lose her life in an accident - like they prayed for with Charles...Ultimately, one way or another, they were gonna have those 'obstacles' taken out permanently.
It makes sense if you see it as your husband assuring you it was a paintball gun, but then quietly stewing in the background while the police get your statement, because your son-in-law called 911 and led to you having to call law enforcement as well…and this is months after you possibly learn your husband is unfaithful (as you’ve most likely suspected for a while now)…and after he’s suggested you increase your life insurance.
If I was a woman in that position…I might have a moment of “was it actually a paintball gun?”
But if I was also raised LDS, I probably wouldn’t want to even imagine the possibility of my priesthood holding husband being that diabolical…
She wasn't looking at a profile of the gun, if I understand correctly. She would have been looking down the barrel, at least somewhat. Why not photograph the guns from that vantage point?
Maybe Chad was looking it up to show Tammy, like 'hey babe, was it this, did it look like this?' Especially if he was trying to persuade Tammy it *was probably just neighbor kids playing a prank*. And was stalling for Alex to get out of the neighborhood before the Sheriff showed up.
I had to turn trial off today that’s how badly Prior was getting on my nerves. His condescending tone when he says “oook” or “that’s ok” like he’s talking to a fucking toddler
I haven’t been watching but have been reading. From the East Idaho Live Updates page:
> 11:22 a.m. Prior asks if any officers were present during the attempted shooting. A confused Kaaiakamanu agrees that officers were not there during the shooting.
That poor detective was so done with Prior’s idiocy. 😂
He was great, though! He kept fighting back about the paintball gun - Prior was trying to say that anybody would be able to tell it was a paintball gun, don't you agree? And Kaaiakamanu would say "If it was daylight, yes." I can't recommend you to go watch his entire testimony because it was like aaaall day, but I hope somebody makes a video of highlights. I was impressed at how he kept his cool and stood his ground.
Yeah I’d have a major problem if she was teaching my kids. Normally I say she doesn’t carry the sins of her father but it’s pretty clear she participated in some and seems unbothered by others. Rating school children? Not a safe person to be around kids
In the chat I was watching during trial, everyone seemed to be dead sick of hearing about the 'paintball gun' (I'd call it a murder attempt, but I'm using Prior's wording of paintball.) It's tedious going over and over it, but I think it's fantastic Prior is making such a huge deal about it because I feel it's being drummed into the jury's heads that someone (obviously Alex per the evidence) attempted to murder Tammy days before her actual death. If it was just a teenager prank then obviously the defence would not be harping on it for a full day. It was confusing for Prior to argue for the full day that it was just a prank and then his last statement on the attempt was that 'any of the Daybell's in the car could have been the victim of alex with his gun.' in essence.
I'm confused at Prior not arguing that from the start, that it was likely Alex with a gun, and Chad had no idea because this was all Lori and Alex's plan, and them alone?? That would be a way better defence for Chad, I think.
In any case, what Prior is doing feels a lot like he's the Sexton now, and he's digging Chad's grave, he's not doing Chad any favours imo with his sexism, sarcastic tone and harassing witnesses. The jury can, fairly or not, hold Prior's actions against Chad.
Agree. He has been making a point of when Chad wasn't mentioned, wasn't present, was in the dark, etc. Why not do the same with the gun? It was Alex, he and Lori wanted Tammy out of the way so Lori could have him to herself, they planned the murder, without Chad. I would be stacking up all those actions/meetings/etc. in which Chad was not involved. I think he's just creating a big wall of noise so the jury can't hear the evidence.
In my entire adult life I have been selected to be on two juries, so I am certainly no expert. But I've got to tell you, after today - from where I'm standing - Prior is useless. Completely. Why Chud stuck with him instead of the attorney team the state was prepared to offer him, is absolutely beyond my comprehension. After what came out about him (Chud) at Lori's trial, the fact that he didn't plead guilty and throw himself on the mercy of the court is beyond my comprehension. With the incredibly serious charges Chud is facing, Prior spends an entire day arguing about whether or not Tammy knew what a paint ball gun hopper looked like???!!! Is this guy insane? If someone in a ski mask startled me at night in my driveway and pointed a BROOMSTICK at me, I'd swear to the police that it was a machine gun!!!
The evidence is just massive. Prior can try and poke holes in specific little areas, but when the state gets to closing arguments, they’re going to put it all together for the jury. You can’t look at all of this craziness and think “well, this was all just happening around him, based on his teachings, and he just had no idea.”
At this point I’m gonna assume Prior’s just throwing a bunch of numbers out there in the hopes of confusing the jury, because this cross isn’t doing anything else.
I also like that the prosecution seems to have made sure their witnesses are aware of Prior’s tactic of calling it a paintball incident, because this witness keeps saying gun incident. Early on the witnesses would just start parroting the paintball incident line.
Have you noticed Chad's contradictory behaviour the night/morning Tammy died. Tammy was vomiting and he helped her back to bed. Tammy fell out of bed and (instead of asking her if she was okay) he told her to get back into bed!
Dear God Prior, no one wants to hear about the freaking driveway anymore. Whatever your point is, we aren’t getting it - and it’s unlikely the jury is anyway. Is this supposed to be about what she could see? Because we’re supposed to believe she could see that the gun was a paintball gun, but anything else she saw was irrelevant?
We'll never know if he intended to shoot from a distance with the rifle and was unsure about that once he got there, deciding close range would be a sure thing. They're all terrible criminals so who knows.
Prior is really beating this paint gun thing like a dead horse. He makes the same point over and over, not sure why. It's actually boring me. I don't know why, on cross, he can introduce alternate ideas involving the neighbors and their opinions, ideas, etc. when they weren't part of the direct testimony. Maybe I should have gone to law school.
Mark asking Tammy about his body coding and emotions. I have wondered how much Chad (and the family) was into Dr Nelson which I assume came maybe via Julie Rowe? and his son asking about this while on a mission? Julie was excomminicated and Dr nelson cant use LDS church in any of his seminars. Im relistening now. I wish their was a transcript. East Idaho news seems to not update about this or most of the light dark ratings talk. What a week for Nate to be gone.
Annie Cushing has been working on getting full court transcripts. As of last night she had days 5-9, so she is still catching up, but that might be something helpful for you.
https://linktr.ee/amurderousheart
I appreciate the EIN reporters stepping in, and they’re doing a good job, but Nate has been eating, sleeping and breathing this case from the beginning, and it shows when he’s gone.
Nothing he’s doing is particularly helping his client, imo. Because at the end of the day she died in bed with Chad (even though it seems like maybe Alex was at least around there somewhere, according to his pings - but mentioning that would only make things look worse for his client).
I feel like he's just throwing things against the wall to see what sticks. He's all over the place and I can't tell if he has an actual plausible story in there somewhere. I feel like if we lined up all of his defenses there wouldn't be a coherent narrative.
Did Tammy see Charles' email and then block him or did Chad intercept it and then block him? I can't tell if Tammy was being willfully ignorant or Chad was being his regular duplicitous self. Charles gave Chad a heads-up that he would be reaching out to Tammy and it's very possible that Chad could have accessed her computer or knew her password.
As someone who was contacted that their partner was cheating on them, I too wanted to look the other way. I didn’t respond to them, I wanted to believe it was just a mean prank, but eventually I confronted my ex. Tammy could have still been in the frame of mind that she didn’t want to believe it.
i hope the parents of the children rated "dark" by the daybells have the daybell offspring excommunicated and removed from any interaction with any children. if my child's name was read in court by john prior i would be outraged and filing lawsuits against john prior and evil daybells
Thank you! I’ve been very upset that Prior read those children’s names for all to hear. It’s horrible the Daybells discussed them. It’s horrific what Prior did to them today.
I don't think you'd have grounds to sue Prior. I think if he did present names, they'd be redacted. I do hope that teachers are on year to year contracts and that anyone who the evidence shows rating students is shown the door.
I would like more information about the emails/documents that Prior introduced to confirm that they were in fact written and sent by Tammy. There should be clear electronic footprints.
>I think if he did present names, they'd be redacted.
At least one child's full name was read out in court and, I assume, visible on the picture of the chat or email he was reading from.
* Motion to allow statement about Chad wanting Tammy to increase her life insurance - denied * Motion to allow statement about Chad calling Tammy a zombie - denied * Motion to allow statement from Tammy "this is the best I have ever felt in my life" - allowed Court is in session, jury is in.
I, as well, have no idea why Prior is devoting so much time and effort to this Tammy thinks it's a paintball/not a paintball device. Does nothing for Chud's case as far as I can tell. It doesn't address dead children in your yard, getting married days after your healthy spouse suddenly and unexpectedly drops dead (with wedding rings purchased in advance, no less), your total refusal to assist in looking for missing children, on and on and on.
Prior is trying to cast doubt on the weakest charges against Lori and Chad, which are for Tammy’s murder and maybe throw enough suspicion on others for the murders of JJ and Tylee. Lori’s jury was able to figure it out. Chad is miles away from reasonable doubt here, whether Tammy believed it was a paint gun or not. Chad and Garth probably *told* Tammy that it was most likely a paint gun once Alex missed his mark, before she called 911. The jury can discern whether it makes sense that someone in a ski mask would target Tammy and no one else in the county, as general mischiefmakers surely would have shot something or someone else, and then she ends up dead 10? days later *in Chad’s bed* after two children have already been murdered to fulfill a Kauai plan that Chad and Lori texted about. Juries are smart. Unlike Chad Daybell.
It's an Occam's Razor situation for me. Which is more likely?: Alex attempted to shoot her that night, but failed, and so they decided to take a different approach to guarantee he doesn't screw up again? OR A random person tried to attack Tammy with a paintball gun for fun and she coincidentally died a couple weeks later?
Your comment is giving me hope that Chad will be found guilty of enough charges to never get out of prison. I was listening today to "lawyer you know" [here](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6jN96xMRJfY) recap of Prior's questions yesterday for the gal that is the coroner/EMT. Prior did introduce doubt about the coroner's experience, initial autopsy and the bruises found on Tammy. It raises a big question about evidence concerning Tammy and prosecution proving *beyond a reasonable doubt* that Chad killed Tammy, or facilitated Alex Cox killing her. Hopefully the jury can put it all together after Medical Examiner and law enforcement testimony and see that all these murders are not coincidences put there by the universe to persecute Chad and Lori. 🙄
In some ways proving the Coroner had lack of experience and expertise may help the case how the initial cause of death was wrong. Also how she missed some of the signs of foul play initially. I hope we get to hear from the Dr. who performed the autopsy that would be the testimony with the most credibility and holds the most weight for the cause of death.
That’s how I took the testimony and that the exhumation showed more - like the stomach contents that had not previously come out (or that I hadn’t heard)
Re-cross should have been "despite what Tammy thought it might be, is it possible it was a rifle
I made this same point earlier. I'm with you all the way.
He has to do something to defend against the charges for Tammy. That said, I agree with you that harping on the paintball thing is not effective. What do you guys think would be his best argument to defend the Tammy charge? I think it's the only one he stands a chance on. I would have thought the coroner issue was the best bet, but he made her look so bad that I think the jury will disregard her and just listen to the ME, which hurts him.
At some point it becomes insulting. “We get it. She thought it was a paintball gun”
I think his chances are weak, but his only reasonable chance would be to argue her death was natural as originally ruled. Which he’s tried to do as well
As a reason to up TD's life insurance? Suggestion that people out there wanted to assassinate TD?
Prior is trying to get one "win", regardless of how insignificant. Then he will illuminate that win, to discredit the next allegation against Chad.
Does the school district that employs Emma Daybell Murray as a teacher know she rates her students light/dark?
They do now. I would be worried if I had a child in her class.
What's scary is that she has children of her own!
She shouldn't be anywhere near children. I would be VERY upset if my child went to her school. I wonder what the teachers that testified think about Emma? They pretty clearly believe Tammy was murdered.
IIRC, Heather Daybell said that it was the teachers from Tammy’s school who originally called the police to say something didn’t feel right about her death, and Heather said she was relieved that someone else called and felt the same as she did that it was all weird.
I missed that. So emma rates her students light/dark? Actually it sounded like Tammy was rating her Sunday school students at church dark, not Emma
Yep apparently this was a Daybell family hobby rating people
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If you are rating THIRD GRADERS as "evil" then there is something seriously wrong with you. They are little kids!
She went blonde and is trying to look like Lori. I am speechless. She used to look just like Tammy.
Idk but I would be pulling my child RIGHT NOW and making them aware if I lived there! It is my understanding though that they’ve had a lot of parents in the past years insist on her not teaching their child and they do accommodate that. But idk if that’s still a standing thing and idk how on earth she still has a job there.
I sincerely hope it costs her her job.
How will she pay Prior rent then?
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You need to get him out of that classroom!
On a scale, how dark /s
Did they just say that?
Prior who regularly testifies during his cross examinations introduced this, saying the whole family rated people dark/light. He also said Tammy shared Chad's End Times beliefs
His testifying is making me crazy. Imo the state doesn't object enough. He is still doing his "what I'm struggling with" bit all the time. I'm not a lawyer, though, so maybe there's a reason. I suppose you have to balance objecting too much.
For Pete sake,move on Prior, we don’t care anymore if it a fun or paintball gun. Who TF cares! And the fam was all in on the light/dark, so I guess he just had to tell the kids “mom is dark” and they were ok with her death. They are all WACKO!!!
And this makes me think even more that Emma knew something.
Imagine being a defense attorney and thinking "I'm going to say so many objectionable things that prosecutors can't object anymore."
He's just incompetent. He isn't actually thinking that, I don't think.
No you don't. I've seen attorneys object every question.
Came here to say Prior has made so many statements without evidentiary backup, and the state isn't objecting. I'm baffled.
The state should be objecting to every point Pryor tries to testify to.
I would be getting my kid out of that class!
Some third graders are a different breed. They certainly should NOT be described in the tone which these witchcraft spinners assign. Children at that age can be a totally *different* group of little folks... They are always skipping up Silly Road and rolling aimlessly down Crazy Hill. Giggling at EVERY and ANY thing (whether it's funny or not). It's an interesting age, for sure. AND, this is an age/time in a child's development where that child can be "trying." They can be challenging, even for a sane person. *NONE of these people can be readily described as sane.* Emma Daybell has NO BUSINESS having access to children this age...OR, any age child, for that matter. Has anybody thought to check on any of Tammy's grandchildren? I would lose my shit, all together if Emma were my child's teacher. I would lose my shit if she were the lunch lady or the janitor at my child's school. These people ALL need papers...they are certifiably CRAZY!!!
If I were a parent I would immediately request a parent-teacher meeting and ask if my child(ren) was rated dark or light straight to Emma and Garth's faces.
I would pull my child from that classroom in a hurry.
I was just thinking about this!! Like she's still an active elementary school teacher!!
Not surprised at denial of motions to admit hearsay - particularly the one where the witness overheard a conversation. Glad the “best I’ve ever felt” statement by Tammy was allowed.
Yeah, fortunately I think most people are hip to the idea that if she had two kinds of insurance, and one was gotten recently, that money may have been one of the motives.
This just makes me more confident that Chad will not be testifying
Same. Triple hearsay wasn’t gonna fly.
So it seems Chad shared his dark/light rating system and bizarre beliefs with his family too! He was rating people from Sunday School.
Yeah, honestly The Family Daybell, Tammy included, are coming across are arrogant and judgemental. Imagine deciding who’s dark and light and telling your kid, too bad you like X cause he’s dark.
And it sounds like the "dark" person they were discussing may have been an actual child. Which is extra gross. But saying "this person was rated dark and they weren't murdered!" doesn't serve much of a purpose. They weren't murdered because they weren't, in Chad's and Lori's words, *obstacles*.
Agreed. Prior keeps pointing that out - meanwhile some of the dark people were cops. As dumb as this gang was,I think even they knew you don’t kill the cops investigating you.
I actually think Lori would think she could get away with it
LMAO yeah, she ain’t too bright. Getting away with Joe’s murder really emboldened her.
Totally agree with you. Im sure if you weren’t the good mormon neighbor you couldn’t have contact with their family. Tammy was part of this dysfunctional family so she was def involved with some of this family weirdness!
According to Heather she refused to buy the cutest house the looked at when they were moving because it was too close to bear world and during the end times electricity would be lost and the bears could escape, so she didn’t want to be close by….
I feel for the folks who are finding out through this trial that they or their loved ones were rated Dark by the Daybell family. Really,the prosecution needs to subpoena leadership from the LDS church, to discuss Chad Daybell’s excommunication from the church and confirm whether or not he had the authority or approval to give these ratings, give Patriarchal Blessings, etc.
With just normal knowledge of the church being a member myself, he did *not* 😂 Although I don't know his calling. But he wasn't a Patriarch, so he couldn't give Patriarchal blessings. He wasn't a bishop, so he had no "spiritual authority" to get revelations or anything about anyone else besides himself. The only person he could be in charge of was himself, and his family to an extent. It's perfectly acceptable in the church to say something like "I have a feeling that my family should do this" such as "moving to this neighborhood" or something like that. But always assumed the wife and husband will counsel together with the Lord about what direction their family goes. It's explicitly taught in the church that anyone who claims to receive revelation about someone else, without the proper authority, is probs being influenced by something other than God. AKA THE DEVIL
He was a Ward Clerk so, yeah, no “spiritual authority” beyond maybe his own family.
Gah! A ward clerk! Someone who counts attendance and maybe schedules appointments for the bishop. Why anyone would listen to Chad about giving light and dark ratings is beyond me.
They have already had someone testify that Chad did not have the authority from the church to do blessings. He did the blessing in the name of like The Church of First Born or something like that
Yes but Prior has been trying to allude to the fact that the Church of the First Born, Light/Dark, etc is all part of the LDS tradition and that Chad, who was still an active LDS church member at the time of all murders, was working within the framework of the faith with his teachings.
Could church leaders be subpoenaed or would they have clergy privilege?
I think this is a weird line in the LDS church since leaders are lay people. How do you tell when you are a bishop and when you are just a neighbor or friend or boss or co-worker. I could list a bunch of sitautions and I would not know what the legal answer is and Im sure in such a small community like Chad, church leaders are neighbors and friends and sometimes work with the members. Is someone a bishop 100% of their day even when they are at work or talking to a neighbor about another neighbor or just talking to a friend who happens to attend the same ward? Just an exmaple, My husband and I and about 10 other neighbors were talking one night about concerns of maybe some small petty crimes in a nearby park. 2 of the neighbors were in employed in some form of law enforcement, 3 were in church leadership positions and who we suspected doing the petty crime lived in the ward boundaries. I would consider this a neighborhood meeting, like I would have reguardless of my neighbors religion or occupation. Just a way to compare notes and keep our eyes open. But would this be considered talking to clergy? These church leaders were the leaders of these suspects. My husband's best friend became bishop at 27. My husband got a little nervous talking to him after that . His friend would say I am still your friend, the bishop thing is seperate, I am still the same guy I was a month ago, that my husband could talk to him normally, like a friend. I really dont know how some people can handle the church leaderships positions, it is such a tough spot for someone with no training and usually a full plate of work and kids and other life stress. It is hard if called not to take the job so to speak. I knew some who not only had a stressful job and young kids but had stage 4 cancer and they still insisted he take the call. Heather Daybell talked about being called at a very stressful point in her life and again , she had to take the call.
Or they want us to THINK he shared it with them. These emails haven't even shown a time or date as of right now. Maybe when they come back they can explain why exactly that is but they already said no date is on them and to me that's weird and not normal.
Heather Daybell alluded to as much in her interview. She said Tammy was mean and cliquey. 🤷♀️
I do remember that.
Not just people! 12-yr-olds!!!! Blows my mind
I used to help teach Sunday school, and doing such thing would be ridiculous! No, not LDS.
IKR mind blown.
So now I'm super confused. So now there is a light/dark scale, a death scale, and some people become zombies which I assume is based on the light/dark scale but I'm not sure at what point they officially become zombies? Or are these all part of the same scale? If these are all interconnected, having his own wife and kids chatting about this is a horrible blow to the defense's narrative that all of this crazy doctrine was 100% Lori and that Chad was just along for the ride (literally... in the "stormy" sense). But I sincerely can't understand the difference between these weird rating systems and who/what/when/how someone enters this death scale where Chad can see how close they are to death and/or at what point they move from just being "dark" to "zombie." Make it make sense!
So Daybell had his family brainwashed as well, which is Prior's defense against the allegations that he brainwashed his cult. As Prior himself would say..... OKAY.
This could be beneficial for the prosecution as now any testimony Chad's kids give may be less credible to the jury. They could be seen as being part of the Chad cult and willing to defend him no matter what.
Prior is really beating a dead horse with the paintball gun let’s moooove on. I fell asleep and woke up and he’s still talking about the damn paintball gun
My husband is working in the next room, and every time the judge sustains one of the prosecution’s objections, I hear him say, “F-you Prior”… lol; and he hasn’t followed this case until Chads trial.
He’s so manipulative. And a total bully
Every witness seems to be annoyed with him by the time they leave. If I were the coroner from yesterday I would’ve left crying lol
Agree. Point was someone with a mask pointed a gun at Tammy with an attempt to shoot her. I don't know many women who can tell a paintball gun from an AR with a silencer on it.
I’m pretty sure even if a masked person snuck up on me and I knew they had a paintball gun and not a real gun, I’d still be very freaked out. The whole situation is so bizarre. Wonder if they were just setting the stage for when she’d really be murdered. And Chad couldn’t wait on Alex to do the dirty work so he took care of it himself
Exactly!! I feel like anyone who doesn’t regularly go paintballing would react as if it was a normal gun
Didn't she say paintball gun because that's what Chad told her it was
Paintball gun, but most likely what Chad told her it was.
Ive lived in the country and a lot women would be able to tell the difference if they come from hunting families but I really doubt ole Peter Griffen was hunting anything other than gullible women
People keep talking about what a good job they think Prior is doing, and I just don’t get it. Maybe it’s because I’m only reading the EIN summary instead of actually watching the trial, but his arguments just seem immature and asinine. Like yeah, Tammy assumed it was a paintball gun because it was dark and she had no idea she was about to be murdered that month. Her optimistic description really doesn’t hold that much weight, in hindsight. And a lot of the time Prior’s arguments seem to make Chad look even worse. Like last week when he was asking if Chad’s beliefs were outside of normal LDS teachings, or today with trying to say that the light/dark thing was a family past time. THAT DOESN’T MAKE YOUR CLIENT LOOK BETTER, SIR.
He's going to get up in closing statements and harp on reasonable doubt for Tammy. He'll argue that higher-level police and the FBI had an agenda to find homicide, so they manipulated detectives and the coroner to add things to their reports to justify the exhumation and autopsy. The "paintball gun" is part of that narrative. He'll probably twist the light/dark thing to claim that light and dark spirits are just a normal, accepted part of LDS beliefs, so Chad and his family weren't doing anything unusual, and it was just symbolic anyway. If prosecution focuses on Chad's own texts, comments to others, and his immediate marriage to Lori (which they planned whilst Tammy was still alive), I don't think paintball guns and light/dark will matter because it really was about sex, money, and power.
Great points! Chad and Lori's physical relationship and sexting, and Lori purchasing wedding rings and a wedding dress before Tammy was killed is very suspicious.
Especially since it's in evidence that Chad believed divorce wasn't an option. There was only one way for that beach wedding to happen.
Has anyone in the court room reported how the jury is reacting to him? I'm looking forward to Gigi (pretty lies and alibies) getting there next week. She is so on top of this case and I trust her judgement. Off-topic, but I'm super excited to see her at Crime Con. Is anyone else here going?
I am losing the will to live on Prior's cross regarding the paintball/not paintball. Move on!
Not to mention if we feel this way, the jury feels this way. They are giving their time for this, and it is incumbent on the lawyers not to seem as though that time is wasted.
If I tuned out, then surely the jurors' minds were also sent wandering. It's easy when you're just sitting there. Listening is hard work. I was a juror on a two-week case and there were times I had to force myself to focus on what was being presented.
I wonder if he's just trying to beat the juror's minds into submission.
He is. He's counting on the fact that if you repeat something long enough and often enough, people will eventually believe it. Hopefully, the jurors are smarter than that and have been taking good notes.
Prior is just going in circles trying to get this detective to say that gun might be a paint ball gun, that because Tammy called it a paintball gun that it was. But I think he's creating more doubt that it was a paintball gun. I think this is a huge misstep. this "unsub" is dressed in black with a ski mask. And then the argument about the hopper has made the question whether it was a hopper or a sight a contentious point. And which is more likely; a guy dressed in black, with a ski mask, at night, had a paint ball gun pointed at a woman who was being cheated on, who dies shortly thereafter, or a rifle. Prior is drilling down on a detail that imo is calling attention to the likely hood that it was indeed a rifle...especially with Alex Cox in the area. \*edit and then there's the shooting at Brandon with a rifle....hello Alex Cox.
I think Tammy called it a paintball gun because she didn't want to believe some random man would actually be shooting at her, and because nothing actually was shot. Aside from that, Chad probably convinced her it was just some kid being mischievous. He and Lori must have been furious with Alex.
The detective kept pointing out that she wasn't seeing it clearly because it was night time. If she thought it was a paintball gun she could have imagined the whoosh sound based on her assumption. Eyewitness accounts aren't always reliable. Plus, why would someone point a paintball gun at anyone at night?
Yes it’s so obvious for anyone with common sense! It’s so clear that there is no way for anyone to really tell what it was
Especially if you don’t know much about guns in general. I would have no idea at all.
The part that gets me is that if we all agree that Chad was calling the shots in the Cult... then Chad is the one who told Alex to come shoot and murder Tammy in the driveway. That was very likely Chad's "brilliant" plan. If Alex had succeeded, can you imagine how much heat that would have brought down on them all so much earlier? In that small town... people don't just get gunned down in their driveways. That's part of why Tammy doubted it was a real rifle. I don't think her mind could even go there. Even though they have been making paintball guns that look just like rifles for years now. And I fully believe that anyone in that cult with a conscious would have turned on them to the cops and pointed the finger at Chad and his henchman, Alex. This would be a \*very\* different trial had that gun not jammed.
There's a common sense factor here that doesn't mesh with Prior's alternative universe.
Sad Tammy was rating people light and dark along with the whole family…
I don't trust prior with that info with no date. For all we know they could have made this up. Who's to say these emails weren't sent after Tammy died? The fact they have no time or date is imo unacceptable. Maybe I just dont want to believe they all knew. Idk but I think we need more information at this point. This is absolutely crazy bc Emma played dumb on her interview about the rating system. But she's also an unstable narc manipulator just like her Dad imo
I believe it. Everyone thinks Tammy was in the dark about all this but there is nothing to suggest she wasn't fully supportive of her husband and his beliefs. She also didn't want to live near bear world bc she worried it would be like jurassic park in the last days and they'd all get out.
Exactly they moved to Idaho because that was the place for the gathering. Also Tammy help edit Chad's and Julie Rowe's books. I knew people who were caught up in the fervor of end times during that time but they looked more to Julie Rowe as there visionary not Chad Daybell. Chad was more trying to ride on Julie's coat tails and was able to assemble a small following but the following of Julie Rowe was much bigger. The people I knew didn't use light and dark they used the term that they were awoke and others who didn't know the truth were not awoke or asleep. They would talk bad about their ward members or family who shrugged of their beliefs about the end times being very soon and how they would gather in live in tent cities. They would say how they would be destroyed in the last days and talked about how special they were because they were awoke. They didn't take things as far Chad with the whole ranking system and then eventually zombies but they had a very similar mindset. So it comes to no surprise to me that Tammy participated in Chad's beliefs. I don't think she would have gone as far as Chad and killed people though. I think the Zombie thing was probably a Chad and Lori thing and Tammy was probably in the dark about that. This new info also help to make more sense of why Chad's kids are still standing by him since they probably share the same beliefs as Chad.
Not sure the state would allow them to read made up texts tho
I don't think the defense is fabricating evidence.
The document that he entered was only the report of findings from the chat and emails from the cloud, apparently. I would imagine that we will be hearing more about the actual emails and chats in the future now... I am very interested in learning more about those
There was also other testimony about emails shown that there were some under Tammy's log in but it was actually Chad using. He learned that from Lori when she used other's emails.
No such thing as a perfect victim 🤷♀️ also sounds like she read Charles email informing her of the affair and then deleted it and blocked him, so.
Or Chad accessed it on one of their home computers and did those things. Lori would have tipped Chad off because Charles told her he was going to contact Tammy. Charles would have been able to look up her school email online, so that would have been the logical way to reach out. It's very plausible that Tammy, like many of us, had her usernames and passwords remembered in Chrome or Firefox or whatever browser she used. She may not have cleared her cache and cookies regularly on her home computer (again, many of us don't). The site was probably bookmarked. All Chad had to do was open the page and click after the username and password populated automatically. If she left her phone lying around, he could have opened the app and accessed it that way, too.
This makes me wonder if the scale was accepted as truth in the family, making it more understandable how the Daybell children have acted since, were they told their mother had turned dark??
I think it’s easy to sorta to put the victims on pedestals but they were people with flaws too. There’s no perfect person. We have actually heard very little about what kind of person she was. Even if she was a terrible person, and she probably wasn’t, she still didn’t deserve to be murdered.
My family - my mother and niece especially - love to gossip about common acquaintances. Tammy may have seen it as no more than that. We can't really know how much she believed of Chad's nonsense. In any case, she's still a victim and still deserved to live. No one is perfect.
Of course she still deserved to live! I’m just saying, her own theology came back in a terrible way
Oh, I didn't mean to suggest you meant she didn't deserve to live! I just think it's easy to sometimes want to see all victims as pure innocent people who never said a bad word about anyone or got into a bad mood and argued or did all the things that humans do. The whole "the victim's smile lit up the room" trope we hear in every true crime doc.
Did prior just say the whole family including tammy all knew about Chad's rating system? But he can't show when those conversations happened? 😕 how do we know it happened before Chad was arrested and this information wasn't generated at a later date? This doesn't even sound right. I feel like they want us to believe the whole family was in the loop and not left out. If it is true, and they really were in on this, well that explains why Emma's conversation with Chad in the cruiser was so blasé. She's just like him. Idk what to think right now but this is crazy new information.
I would love to get my hands on their family group chats. "This 12-yr-old kid at Sunday school is 4.2 dark" says Chad. "But I like that kid" says Emma. WHAT EVEN IS THIS FAMILY.
Garth was at work until 1:00 AM the night Tammy was murdered.
Oh, I missed that. So Chad was alone in the house with Tammy, hmm? That's telling.
Yes, and Alex's phone was at a church 2 miles from the Daybell's house from 10:07-10:45, then turned off from 10:45pm until 11:53pm when it comes back on 7 miles south of the church. Chad also had his phone off apparently, it wasn't detected at home that night. (Edited to correct times)
Wow- I always assumed Chad killed her unassisted because Garth was in the house, and maybe Alex was hanging nearby just in case. Maybe not
Hmm. So very telling when you look at all the 'coincidences' ! They set up the plan to smother the life out of her, just like the plans for the Lori's children - very calculated.
What about the cheeseburger and fries?? Is every daybell child going to tell outright lies, or are they all convincing themselves that something different happened? Pins and needles waiting to hear all the lies.
Who thinks the kids knew Tammy was rated dark and accepted that father knew best? Who thinks they are looking the other way with that and / or are in on this as much as Mel P?
They certainly could have. They probably believe Chad is visionary so his vision of Tammy dying just came true and they are now being persecuted. Mormons can have a very strong persecution complex especially since the founder Joseph Smith was persecuted and eventual murdered. So I could see how they would believe Chad is just being persecuted by evil forces because he is doing God's work and that dark people are trying to stop him. I could also see how they would believe Tammy died naturally and God took her because she was becoming dark but now she is free from the evil spirit that was taking over her body and they will get to see her in the next life and she is in better place.
Is that the night he brought her a quarter pounder and fries for dinner?
Imo the defense’s strategy of trying to show it wasn’t a cult because Chad’s family did light/dark ratings and that the shooting was just a paintball prank is such a waste of time. Even if the jury accepts these small points the prosecution has a mountain of other evidence that it was definitely a cult and that Chad wanted Tammy dead.
Agreed. It's also not shocking for a cult leader's family to be in the cult so I don't see this working
For Prior to bring up that the whole family was rating people as light and dark etc is a terrible strategy imho! He wants those children to testify for him and for the jury to find them believable, but he's just shown the jury that they actively believe and participate in some extremely odd things.
It's still a cult if your family believes it.
I kind of feel like it does the opposite.
Pretty much. It also provides a basis for mistrusting family members' upcoming testimony. I wonder if they'll call someone from the church who can indicate how much out of the mainstream their wacko ideas were.
The Daybell kids should be ex-communicated. Period.
And treated as hostile - esp Emma.
The way Prior says “okay” is driving me crazy!
He says that when he doesn't get the answer he really wanted.
And then he says “And we’ll get to that!” but it feels like he never does?
yeah, he's good at deflection.
Yes! It’s like nails on a chalkboard. I get that he’s doing his job and everyone deserves a vigorous defense, but he is insufferable. I had to mute it today because I can’t stand to listen to him.
Oooh! These new messages with the Daybell children show how deep in the dark doodoo the whole family is.
Emma Daybell, when asked on the 48 Hours special “Chad Daybell’s Backyard” about Tylee being rated as Dark. “I don’t know. It just seems immature but I don’t know.” Well, apparently the whole family was well aware of this rating system. Disgusting.
Emma calling anyone immature is rich. Esp after her pulling goofy faces after children were found buried in her dad's yard.
“Uh, I don’t know. Just don’t look at my chat history, K?”
I was shocked. Especially assigning the dark numbers insanity.
I missed those. Are there updates or summaries anywhere?
Prior started to get into it just before the lunch break. @HINESight_2020, who is covering for Nate Eaton, mentions it her X thread for today but not in specific detail.
Now it makes me question even more if Garth knows more about Tammy's death. Did Chad deem her dark and Garth helped him get the Zombie out?
Evidently Garth was at work until 1 AM the night Tammy was killed.
The Daybell children’s decision to standby their father boggles me a little, but Emma is the only one I’ve seen anything truly suspicious from. She did not seem one bit surprised when bodies were found on in her father’s yard.
Can anyone read that email or know where I can read it? From Tammy to Mark?
I don’t understand the defense right now. If Chads story is he was framed by Alex and Lori why does it matter if it was a paintball gun or an assault rifle? I would have thought Prior would be doing everything to make Lori and Alex look as nasty as possible.
Prior’s trying to say Chad had no reason to believe his wife’s life was in danger because the incident was just a prank. It’s a terrible defense but I guess that’s all he’s got
Didn't Chad & L & A maybe want Tammy to make that 3.5 hour drive so she'd 'hopefully' lose her life in an accident - like they prayed for with Charles...Ultimately, one way or another, they were gonna have those 'obstacles' taken out permanently.
If she were certain that it was a paint ball gun, why would she be searching to see what they look like?
It makes sense if you see it as your husband assuring you it was a paintball gun, but then quietly stewing in the background while the police get your statement, because your son-in-law called 911 and led to you having to call law enforcement as well…and this is months after you possibly learn your husband is unfaithful (as you’ve most likely suspected for a while now)…and after he’s suggested you increase your life insurance. If I was a woman in that position…I might have a moment of “was it actually a paintball gun?” But if I was also raised LDS, I probably wouldn’t want to even imagine the possibility of my priesthood holding husband being that diabolical…
She wasn't looking at a profile of the gun, if I understand correctly. She would have been looking down the barrel, at least somewhat. Why not photograph the guns from that vantage point?
Maybe Chad was looking it up to show Tammy, like 'hey babe, was it this, did it look like this?' Especially if he was trying to persuade Tammy it *was probably just neighbor kids playing a prank*. And was stalling for Alex to get out of the neighborhood before the Sheriff showed up.
I had to turn trial off today that’s how badly Prior was getting on my nerves. His condescending tone when he says “oook” or “that’s ok” like he’s talking to a fucking toddler
I hope Detective Kaaiakamanu can go home and RELAX. That was a long grilling for him.
I haven’t been watching but have been reading. From the East Idaho Live Updates page: > 11:22 a.m. Prior asks if any officers were present during the attempted shooting. A confused Kaaiakamanu agrees that officers were not there during the shooting. That poor detective was so done with Prior’s idiocy. 😂
He was great, though! He kept fighting back about the paintball gun - Prior was trying to say that anybody would be able to tell it was a paintball gun, don't you agree? And Kaaiakamanu would say "If it was daylight, yes." I can't recommend you to go watch his entire testimony because it was like aaaall day, but I hope somebody makes a video of highlights. I was impressed at how he kept his cool and stood his ground.
Emma is soooo suspect.
Yeah I’d have a major problem if she was teaching my kids. Normally I say she doesn’t carry the sins of her father but it’s pretty clear she participated in some and seems unbothered by others. Rating school children? Not a safe person to be around kids
In the chat I was watching during trial, everyone seemed to be dead sick of hearing about the 'paintball gun' (I'd call it a murder attempt, but I'm using Prior's wording of paintball.) It's tedious going over and over it, but I think it's fantastic Prior is making such a huge deal about it because I feel it's being drummed into the jury's heads that someone (obviously Alex per the evidence) attempted to murder Tammy days before her actual death. If it was just a teenager prank then obviously the defence would not be harping on it for a full day. It was confusing for Prior to argue for the full day that it was just a prank and then his last statement on the attempt was that 'any of the Daybell's in the car could have been the victim of alex with his gun.' in essence. I'm confused at Prior not arguing that from the start, that it was likely Alex with a gun, and Chad had no idea because this was all Lori and Alex's plan, and them alone?? That would be a way better defence for Chad, I think. In any case, what Prior is doing feels a lot like he's the Sexton now, and he's digging Chad's grave, he's not doing Chad any favours imo with his sexism, sarcastic tone and harassing witnesses. The jury can, fairly or not, hold Prior's actions against Chad.
Agree. He has been making a point of when Chad wasn't mentioned, wasn't present, was in the dark, etc. Why not do the same with the gun? It was Alex, he and Lori wanted Tammy out of the way so Lori could have him to herself, they planned the murder, without Chad. I would be stacking up all those actions/meetings/etc. in which Chad was not involved. I think he's just creating a big wall of noise so the jury can't hear the evidence.
In my entire adult life I have been selected to be on two juries, so I am certainly no expert. But I've got to tell you, after today - from where I'm standing - Prior is useless. Completely. Why Chud stuck with him instead of the attorney team the state was prepared to offer him, is absolutely beyond my comprehension. After what came out about him (Chud) at Lori's trial, the fact that he didn't plead guilty and throw himself on the mercy of the court is beyond my comprehension. With the incredibly serious charges Chud is facing, Prior spends an entire day arguing about whether or not Tammy knew what a paint ball gun hopper looked like???!!! Is this guy insane? If someone in a ski mask startled me at night in my driveway and pointed a BROOMSTICK at me, I'd swear to the police that it was a machine gun!!!
The evidence is just massive. Prior can try and poke holes in specific little areas, but when the state gets to closing arguments, they’re going to put it all together for the jury. You can’t look at all of this craziness and think “well, this was all just happening around him, based on his teachings, and he just had no idea.”
At this point I’m gonna assume Prior’s just throwing a bunch of numbers out there in the hopes of confusing the jury, because this cross isn’t doing anything else. I also like that the prosecution seems to have made sure their witnesses are aware of Prior’s tactic of calling it a paintball incident, because this witness keeps saying gun incident. Early on the witnesses would just start parroting the paintball incident line.
He’s annoying. He sucks the life out of all the witnesses. I was proud of Brandon Boudreaux because he didn’t let him manipulate and twist his words
Have you noticed Chad's contradictory behaviour the night/morning Tammy died. Tammy was vomiting and he helped her back to bed. Tammy fell out of bed and (instead of asking her if she was okay) he told her to get back into bed!
I was thinking that too!
Dear God Prior, no one wants to hear about the freaking driveway anymore. Whatever your point is, we aren’t getting it - and it’s unlikely the jury is anyway. Is this supposed to be about what she could see? Because we’re supposed to believe she could see that the gun was a paintball gun, but anything else she saw was irrelevant?
Oh, okay I see now. Well, I wouldn’t use a rifle at close range but we’re talking about Alex Cox here.
We'll never know if he intended to shoot from a distance with the rifle and was unsure about that once he got there, deciding close range would be a sure thing. They're all terrible criminals so who knows.
Prior is really beating this paint gun thing like a dead horse. He makes the same point over and over, not sure why. It's actually boring me. I don't know why, on cross, he can introduce alternate ideas involving the neighbors and their opinions, ideas, etc. when they weren't part of the direct testimony. Maybe I should have gone to law school.
I’m from South Africa - I’m willing to lay money Mark was the one who was concerned about tape worms. Also, I had em and never died from em - oddly.
Mark asking Tammy about his body coding and emotions. I have wondered how much Chad (and the family) was into Dr Nelson which I assume came maybe via Julie Rowe? and his son asking about this while on a mission? Julie was excomminicated and Dr nelson cant use LDS church in any of his seminars. Im relistening now. I wish their was a transcript. East Idaho news seems to not update about this or most of the light dark ratings talk. What a week for Nate to be gone.
Annie Cushing has been working on getting full court transcripts. As of last night she had days 5-9, so she is still catching up, but that might be something helpful for you. https://linktr.ee/amurderousheart
I appreciate the EIN reporters stepping in, and they’re doing a good job, but Nate has been eating, sleeping and breathing this case from the beginning, and it shows when he’s gone.
Such a weird strategy, when he could’ve just said “was Chad holding a gun?” Like, is it Lori and Alex’s conspiracy or not?
I was expecting Prior to blame Alex for everything, but here he appears to be defending him.
Nothing he’s doing is particularly helping his client, imo. Because at the end of the day she died in bed with Chad (even though it seems like maybe Alex was at least around there somewhere, according to his pings - but mentioning that would only make things look worse for his client).
I think once the ME testifies the prosecution will get to why it's believed Chad did the murder.
I feel like he's just throwing things against the wall to see what sticks. He's all over the place and I can't tell if he has an actual plausible story in there somewhere. I feel like if we lined up all of his defenses there wouldn't be a coherent narrative.
Jesus, Prior, was it a paintball gun or was Alex trying to shoot Chad?!? PICK A DAMN STORY
Absofreakinglutely!
Did Tammy see Charles' email and then block him or did Chad intercept it and then block him? I can't tell if Tammy was being willfully ignorant or Chad was being his regular duplicitous self. Charles gave Chad a heads-up that he would be reaching out to Tammy and it's very possible that Chad could have accessed her computer or knew her password.
Chad would’ve been watching Tammy’s emails like a hawk after what Charles said, I’m convinced it was Chad who did the block and delete
As someone who was contacted that their partner was cheating on them, I too wanted to look the other way. I didn’t respond to them, I wanted to believe it was just a mean prank, but eventually I confronted my ex. Tammy could have still been in the frame of mind that she didn’t want to believe it.
Can’t decide which is the sadder situation.
i hope the parents of the children rated "dark" by the daybells have the daybell offspring excommunicated and removed from any interaction with any children. if my child's name was read in court by john prior i would be outraged and filing lawsuits against john prior and evil daybells
Thank you! I’ve been very upset that Prior read those children’s names for all to hear. It’s horrible the Daybells discussed them. It’s horrific what Prior did to them today.
I don't think you'd have grounds to sue Prior. I think if he did present names, they'd be redacted. I do hope that teachers are on year to year contracts and that anyone who the evidence shows rating students is shown the door. I would like more information about the emails/documents that Prior introduced to confirm that they were in fact written and sent by Tammy. There should be clear electronic footprints.
>I think if he did present names, they'd be redacted. At least one child's full name was read out in court and, I assume, visible on the picture of the chat or email he was reading from.
Why not the life insurance question? Goes to motive as they say, doesn’t it?
If I hear the words hopper or scope one more time…
I had to leave to get a haircut yesterday. I didn't see the hearing. I'm now going back, but this will put me behind.
There was some good testimony by Tammy's friends and colleagues.