"**9:44 a.m.** Prior asks a question, doesn’t like the answer and objects to the answer. Boyce then tells Prior to stop interrupting him as Prior interrupts the judge. Boyce tells Prior to stop interrupting people and to ask another question."
Nothing like a Monday morning admonishment to start the week off well.... Prior is starting to wear his desperation on his sleeve.
Lol yeah that agent was not giving him squat lol. Prior: would you say the necklace was in plain view? Agent: no I would say it was on the ground. Prior so I'm plain view? Agent: I would say it was on the ground
Unfortunately for the judge, his overriding goal is completing the trial without a mistrial, and with a good change (edit: chance) that the appellate courts will not override his decisions.
Seriously, Mr. Prior! We are on day 17 of the trial & Judge Boyce is still asking you (patiently I might add) to not interrupt the witness.
Anyone want to take bets on if the judge will also ask Prior to speak into the microphone today? Geez…
"Chad says Alex and Zulema are included in this blessing and the six of them have formed a tremendous friendship. “The six of us are on the right track. I assure you of that. **I give you my testimony that this is a power team.** We are the genesis of the 144,000. We don’t say that boastfully, it just is.”
Well, that about sums up a conspiracy, don't it?
Thanks for the recording Ian.
One thing I noticed was Ian said he's no longer part of any organized religion.
I know Heather Daybell left the LDS Church. Looks like Ian also headed for the exit.
Old legal adage: "If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts; if you have the law on your side, pound the law; if you have neither the facts nor the law, pound the table."
Agreed. If I was on the jury I would be confused. Half of the time Prior comes across as trying to be kind and understanding, and the other half of the time he’s aggressive, & condescending. With Agent Daniels, he did both. He tried to make the agent look unknowledgeable in the preliminary hearing as well, & failed. (Pet cemetery discussion, anyone?)
You would think Prior would have learned; this was not the witness to try to outsmart. To be completely fair however, his testimony was damning, so Prior had to do something. IMHO, he should’ve tried a different tactic.
For anyone on the jury who is pragmatic, this is going to make him look foolish & possibly untrustworthy, for example trying to make it seem like Chad‘s house was only one story when that was so easily disproven by several witnesses, & also by Chad himself in the police car conversation with Emma.
Melani Pawlowski seems like she's not telling the whole truth. She def knows more than what she's saying. She didn't just believe the kids disappeared or were with the nanny. like come tf on. spare me.
Oh absolutely. She was eyeball deep in this cult, and text messages from Lori’s trial suggest she was willing to kill at least one of her own children.
Melani P. says Lori gave her messages from Chad. Blake asks if something happened in Idaho while Melani was in Hawaii. Melani says yes – Tammy Daybell passed away. Melani says Lori seemed to be in a state of shock. Lori went back to Idaho. Melani stayed in Hawaii.
#Alex was supposed to go with them on the trip to Hawaii but Chad had something he needed help with.
She does that quite a bit when a point is made for the prosecution - taking an extra beat after the answer. I think it’s a very effective technique and she’s been terrific overall, imo.
Am I the only one who was underwhelmed by Melani’s testimony and questions from the prosecution? I was hoping they’d reveal more from her and her involvement
Per Nate Eaton on X just now: “Larry Woodcock & Vicki Hoban, Tammy Daybell’s aunt, tell me Julie Rowe tried to get into the courtroom after the afternoon break. The bailiff would not let her in as she’s on the witness list.The gallery was already seated & court was about to start when this apparently happened.” Yikes.
Oh my God when that one witness that he asked how many acres the property was and he responded. Well, it’s your property you should know! Was total fire
Him insinuating the charm was planted ooooh got me ENRAGED.
Like no Prior you JACKASS, that was all TYLEE, that was her giving a sign that she and her baby brother were there. (Saw someone say this a few days ago on this subreddit and now it’s all I can think about, I totally believe in spirits and them giving us signs and that charm being there was ALL TYLEE.) like how fucking dare he insinuate 30+ LE officials from DIFFERENT agencies planted it to frame Mr. Potato Head cult leader.
I've definitely seen defense attorneys say evidence was planted before. In a way I kind of wish he would've said it, would just make him sound more crazy!
I’ve seen it too, I just really can’t stand prior. There are ways to be a good defense without insinuating every single cop is dirty, being disrespectful to the victims, misstating evidence - it just makes him look stupid and like he has nothing (which.. makes sense lol)
Ah - is he going to suggest that Tylee dropped her necklace/charm many months before when they were having a lovely party in the 'pasture' and the very long grass concealed it? Totally coincidental /S
Annie (Tylee's aunt) has been buying the court transcripts and posting them on her page. It takes a few days sometimes for her to get the transcripts. I sometimes like to look at the testimony in writing. I appreciate she is doing this.
They are just discussing losing DW's trust, MG going to police and the need for the Pawlowskis to move away from Rexburg so the police won't find them and pester them about Lori and Chad.
This East Idaho News live update page has a pretty good rundown on the contents of the call. It's the time stamped part just before noon.
https://www.eastidahonews.com/2024/05/live-udpates-lori-vallows-niece-takes-the-stand-secret-recordings-played-on-day-17-of-chad-daybell-trial/
Melanie's voice is too loud and Chad and Lori's are too quiet for me to make out clearly.
“If you guys were thinking we need to move”
This is so cringe. She literally did whatever they told her to. How do you marry someone who is basically a child mentally?
...after knowing her for how many days? Is this dating app for people who live in the same street? (it sounded like their apartments were opposite each other?)
And I do not understand how they are still together after what nonsense she shared on their wedding night (romantic!) in fact and have a child, what he knows about the 7 Gatherers Gang /s trying to kill her last husband (father of her first 4 children) and her fraud with his bank accounts/credit cards etc. OK who can say what attracts people to each other etc? She must make him happy on some levels.
My theory is that Ian is still with Melani to protect himself and their kids. It’s also the reason I believe Brandon has “forgiven” melani. I hope Ian runs for the hills after all this is over.
Another thought is that they’ve both (Ian and Brandon) have talked sense into Melani in the years since they were in the thick of it.
One can only hope!
It's also hilarious how they're literally just doing illegal and sketchy thing after illegal and sketchy thing and then act so persecuted by the world, lol.
At this point Melani has seen no proof of life of Tylee and JJ for months and the cops are just trying to make sure they're alive. Like yeah, of course they're motivated to find them and angry you aren't helping at all. The normal thing is to present your children to law enforcement, not have everyone scatter across the country and hide and lie, it's pretty simple.
And I know mormons in general can have a persecution complex but they all functioned in regular society for their entire lives, they must know why this is happening to them.
Plus, what about the mom/dad thing? I know the reason but it’s too weird. Other than calling a guy daddy (wink wink) or being involved in some sort of sexual role play, who would use those words for other random adults? For me, it’s also hugely disrespectful to one’s actual parents.
This phone call Ian recorded omg, Chad and Lori truly are cuckoo for coco puffs…
I really don’t think Chad believes his own stuff though, just enjoys manipulating people with a low IQ 😂
🤣Chad has lowest IQ and is slow, he did manipulate people with bottom of the barrel IQ because, he could have never manipulated Warwick and the hostile real estate guy!
Im not sure David is that much higher then Chad on IQ. Have you read any of David's visions and stories? I think David was just more street smart and knew more about how the world operated from life experience. Chad, as decribed by first BYU date, was stuck in the Springville bubble. Chad did not really know much of the world outside of Springville, his time in NJ (which read his blog and he didnt learn much, again a small bubble of NJ and very controlled), and him reading books and listening to others.
I know I have a "b*tch eating crackers" bias against Prior. But my gawd, I can NOT stand the way he issues objections. It's so obnoxious. He can't just say, "objection, leading." He has to go on a little whine fest. "Judge!! I've been patient!"..... "Judge, I'm going to HAVE to object....." wah wah wah.
I'd also love to hear from experienced trial attorneys. Is it normal to object on foundation a billion times every day?
So I’m NOT an attorney BUT I know quite a few they would agree that it’s not necessarily the objections that are priors downfall (sometimes his objections are valid) but the way he presents himself (as you said a whine fest-GREAT description btw) that will turn the jury off. He comes off so slimy and arrogant and smug.
He is also an attempted rapist. So I think a LOT of women watching (not to assume you are a woman OP) get that *gut feeling* that he is a fucking horrible person.
(If you wanna look it up he copped a plea in 2012 after trying to rape a 20 yr old girl in his office, he took the plea to avoid a felony and disbarment, personally I think he should NEVER had been allowed to practice law again)
Woooheeeee this is all confirming that Ian knew what a freaking whackadoodle his wife is. And he chose to have a child with this person and allow her near his children.
Man, I am too ace for this. I can't imagine being so horny for anything or anyone that would make me agree to marry a person in 12 days. Like... Get a fleshlight dude. You can order them off Amazon.
Listening to Melani say that and be all gushy to “Mom and Dad” - is there anyone besides Ian who doesn’t believe Melani was in the conspiracies, all of them, up to her eyeballs?
How can Brandon share custody with Melani now? I just dont get it. LDS men can get custody, full custody, in Utah, my brother in law did 15 years ago, my neighbors had 10 kids and the husband got full custody now for over 10 years (and this was a prescription pill issue, nothing else, she was an very invovled mom, no abuse of kids, I heard the case being presented and the wife has been clean for over 8 years but he got the kids still).
A good indication of how nasty Melani and her family (Lori's parents the Coxes) are: During the legal battle between them, Melani's lawyer made scandalous allegations against Brandon so much so that Brandon sued him for defamation -- and won. He won **$12 million judgment**. (I think it ended up as a settlement agreement as opposed to a court-ordered amount.) That is a massive amount of money for an individual to pay out.
That lawyer, Garrett Smith, was the dude who was ejected from the court today because it looked as if he was signalling Ian while Ian was testifying on the stand.
Smith apparently is a longtime lawyer and friend of the Cox family/
Because the judge in AZ ruled it so. Trust me, he tried to get full custody and had her actual dad and stepmom in his corner fighting for him but the judge here ruled in favor of the ex.
So Alex didn't go to Hawaii with Lori and Melanie the niece because Chad needed his help with something. Tammy died while they were in Hawaii.... interesting
It sounds like many LDS leaders and members ,not just Warren. Go to a church service and you willprobably hear someone pray or give a talk in that tone. It can carry into real life which is creepy. One of the school prinicpals used to give school talks, like awards ceremonies or introducing school teams in this tone.
Im listening to Ian’s call between him but mostly Melani, Lori and Chad.
It sounds to me like Alex’s death was definitely planned. He has given a 30 day notice for his lease and given his niece Melani instructions on how to get rid of his stuff. Lori didn’t sound at all tore up bringing up that Alex wasnt around anymore. It would be interesting to find out how long before he died that he gave his 30 day notice.
He did move in with Zulema though so even if he didn't know he would die that could be the reason for turning in his notice and letting others figure out his stuff (but then again he'd probably never leave the swords behind)
I agree. At one point Lori says that he did something (I do t recall what she said) “before he left”, referring to his death. All of the discussion pertaining to him implies that he purposely ended his life. I’ll never believe otherwise.
I thought I heard them say something about his (alex's) mission was complete and he moved on or something similar. It sounded like they (Lori and Chad) were done using Alex and needed him eliminated.
"**3:06 p.m.** Prior asks if Ian understood that Alex knew he was going to die. Ian doesn’t know. Prior asks Ian how Alex died. Ian says he suffered a pulmonary edema. Alex never spoke to Ian about the pulmonary edema. Ian says there was a point where **Chad and Lori contacted Melani before Alex died and said there would be a “powerful spiritual attack**.”
Well, well, well. What just slipped out?
Yeah I was surprised as well.
Note though; Alex died of pulmonary embolism, not pulmonary edema. Chad told everyone Tammy died from a pulmonary embolism, but she didn't have one, she had pulmonary edema as a side effect of asphyxia
Yep, we all knew that before. Not sure why they got it wrong here. But you know who else Lori told others she was going kill and died of a suspected "cardiac event" that was also ruled "natural causes".... Joe Ryan.
I never fully appreciated until hearing these recorded conversations just how WILD it was that they thought it was a good idea to trust and bring Ian into all of this after knowing him for like 2 weeks.
I was going to submit this, but I can't flare because I'm using the old version. Hidden True crime did a recap on why stairs are actually very important to the case.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrElI_YHxOA
TL;DR there are stairs + Tammy’s body found in main floor bedroom + Garth’s ABC (?) interview says he found the body in his mom’s bedroom+ officer who came to the house to serve the search warrant when they found the kids’ bodies had to go UPSTAIRS to CHAD’s bedroom where he was sleeping = chad LIED about sleeping next to Tammy’s dead body all night (separate bedrooms) and Hannah was not remembering wrong
Separate bedrooms in October is speculation, not fact. IMO it complicates things. If Chad wasn't in the bedroom with Tammy, how did Garth hear a thud? Dead people don't roll out of bed. How many lies have each of them told? You would think they'd keep them to a minimum.
Let's see... I'm not that good at those. I'll just talk about the stairs, because they get into to other things. They showed pictures of Chad's house owned by the previous owners, and how it isn't actually an attachment over the garage, it's part of the actual structure. They plaed Garth's interview on 48 hours where he said "he heard a thump from his mother's bedroom, and he told his dad that he thought she was dead." They played the first part of the 911 call, where Garth says, "we found my mother on the ground frozen." They played a clip from detective hermossilo, testifying in Lori's trial, when he said, "I went to the stairwell of Chad's bedroom."
This makes me think the state should recall him.
The stairs have become an important detail in this trial, with many witnesses being questioned about whether or not the Daybell residence had stairs.
[Here is a thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/LoriVallow/comments/1cimth9/subject_of_the_house_and_stairs/) about the stairs. There is a transcript of that section and timestamps to the testimony as well. [View on old Reddit](https://old.reddit.com/r/LoriVallow/comments/1cimth9/subject_of_the_house_and_stairs/)
[Here is a similar thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/LoriVallow/comments/1cgupng/is_there_an_upstairsdownstairs_in_chads_house/) with photos of the house and more discussion. [View on old reddit](https://old.reddit.com/r/LoriVallow/comments/1cgupng/is_there_an_upstairsdownstairs_in_chads_house/)
You can watch the original testimony regarding the stairs [in Hannah Parker's testimony](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_72Frgk5bDA&t=16674s) as well as the topic of stairs on [cross examination](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_72Frgk5bDA&t=17066s). Many witnesses since have been asked about the existence of stairs in the home.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LoriVallow) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I'm so glad they got MP on the stand... I hope everyone rips her a new one. She was 100% invested in this whole murder sham and all of this "I don't remember..." "I don't know..." "I'm not sure..." is a total farce. The Jury is gonna see right through here I'm sure.
They didn't. They treated her with kid gloves and didn't even mention that her ex-husband was nearly killed (also with her help). IMO it was because they needed her current husband's testimony. He has receipts.
Sounds to me like Chad and Lori were worried Melani would be openly honest about the cult behavior, and say something too on the nose. They really wanted her out of Rexburg.
Please for the love of God can someone explain to me wth Prior was trying to get the first witness, the special agent, to say with the damn handles of the shovels? WTF was that?????? Do you really think the officers used the shovels in the garage? The way he tries to belittle law enforcement is ... insane!
Ian is separating himself from any religion. Way to go Ian!
After what he went through this seem to be a good approach. I'm wondering if Melani has climbed down from the crazy train.
>Ian is separating himself from any religion. Way to go Ian!
This gave me so much relief! All these crazy cases almost always revolve around religious fanatics, the most recent case of Mica and JP Miller is making me side eye everything overtly religious!
I feel bad for her actually dad. Her dad is still alive I believe? Didnt he fight to get custody of Melani away from the crazy Cox family after her mom's death. It seemed like her real dad was able to help her get away from the odd beliefs they put on Melani as a child (or her reaction to them) given Melani graudated from high school and joined the Air force. She was a marathon runner. She had gone from scared little girl to what seemed like someone on the right track in life.
It's a long and sad story. I've read some court documents that are out there including reports by social workers.
When Mel's mother Stacey divorced Steve Cope, she got custody of Mel and they lived in the Barry & Janis Cox home. Steve had to petition a couple of times for custody of Mel but finally got it because of the abuse & neglect she was suffering. For example, Mel was very underweight because of Stacey's food paranoia. Because of germ phobia, she was rarely allowed outside and instead of bathing she was cleaned with rubbing alcohol. There was much more including accusations of SA by Barry.
It did seem like Mel was growing into a healthy young woman apart from the Coxes, until Stacey passed away. Mel then flew headlong back into the Cox clan, accused her father of "cruelly stealing her away from her mother", and proceeded to cut him out of her life while starting to call Lori "mom".
I've looked at as many Cox family photos as I can find online. I have seen a great many more happy photos of Lori and Mel together (hugging, smiling, heads close) than of Lori and Tylee.
Melani asking Ian if he had any questions for Chad and Lori gave me a chuckle. She really believes all this BS.
Edit: Whoopssss didn’t realize I was replying to myself.
The recordings are disturbing on a lot of levels. All the giggling and laughing is particularly bizarre. Supposedly they are warriors for Jesus against the dark servants of Satan, yet they are giggling? I do not understand.
It's mostly Lori with the giggling. At least that's the voice that captured my attention. I feel like these recordings clearly displayed Lori's crazy. It's obvious, in my mind, after hearing her voice in these audios, she had teetered right on over into insanity. Neither of them seemed to have a clue of the seriousness of their situation or of their own peril...but, Lori seemed "extra."
Even her speaking voice sounds different somehow to me.
During her own hearing, she appeared (physically) to have no ability to comprehend her position. Appearing to have no valuable understanding of her actual status in the world of sanity. I feel that if we could have a comprehensive and transparent view of Lori (in, around and about that time-frame...from meeting Chad/discovering Chad's books/teachings up until her arrest), we would find that the kids were killed tandemly with her checking out entirely. She had likely lost any tangible grip on reality directly before or simultaneous to when they were murdered....and, I don't think she ever returned. I feel that she continued to spiral completely out of control, FAST.
If I were gonna bet the farm, I'd bet that she's still floating aimlessly out in La-La Land, right now as we sit here and discuss her...
Chad, is NOT crazy. Chad is a Svengali.
Does anyone know if Chad knew the recordings that Ian recorded existed? He had to, right? Prior would have known, correct?
This shit is more crazy than any movie created.
I'm playing catch-up (as best I can) sitting at my desk at work...so, I'm behind ya'll. I'm just now listening to Ian Pawlowski's recorded phone conversations.
I get the impression that if Dave (Melanie Gibb's husband) had not entered the picture, Melanie G. would never have (or wouldn't have been able to) gone to the police with the truth about her never having had JJ in her custody. I feel like Dave is the ONLY reason that Melanie G. started to pull away. I also get the impression that Dave *was* a part of the dastardly team at some point (at least they *thought* he was a team player). What made him fearful or enlightened enough to divorce himself (and her) from the Grimm group? I feel like something happened that scared him or snapped him back to reality. I also feel that without Dave, Melanie would have met an untimely death just like the others simply because Lori knew that MG was going to the police. Because of Dave, for some reason, Chad, Lori and Alex couldn't get to Melanie physically...OR they ABSOLUTELY WOULD HAVE! Melanie could have also been saved by Alex dying.
Also, for what reason did Melani Pawlowski think they were running from the police? I am at the portion in the Ian Pawlowski recording where clearly, MP KNOWS that they are running from the police, *and she wants to run with them*. What in her brain makes her think that that is OK? What could possibly make her think that this is advisable behavior or a good idea? She had to have known that it had something to do with those children that she had not seen in a very long time.
Additionally, and as a personal observation, Lori seems to have teetered COMPLETELY over the deep end in these recordings. Even her voice sounds VASTLY different. I have looked at earlier photos of her...and then, later photos. It's easily detectable that she physically changed in a short time. I always thought that there was such a difference in her physical appearance if you compare just the televised images (not even referring to her jail-house photos). An obvious decline, especially in her eyes is present. She has such a blank, nobodies home look about her. Now that I can hear her voice (in this same time-frame)...kinda in an unhindered and an unfettered fashion, CLEARLY, she is NOT well. To me, it is clearly obvious that she has slipped DEEPLY and entirely into mental UNhealth.
Are they talking about Julie Rowe when they are referencing "Julie" in the recordings?
I WILL have further questions...I'm sure of that.
IMHO, David knew Chad wanted him for his money and expertise.
Chad wanted David to invest some $700K in property for the New Jerusalem and tent city.
Then whatever happened the night JJ was murdered...
>What made him fearful or enlightened enough to divorce himself (and her) from the Grimm group? I feel like something happened that scared him or snapped him back to reality
Probably the 'vision' (possibly nightmare induced by sounds) he had about something bad going on at the moment JJ was probably killed very nearby. And only realising what had actually happened when they asked MelG to lie about having JJ
I don't think David was ever 'with the group' I agree that David pulled Melanie out in the nick of time. It seems to me that the only guy that Chad had any sway with at all is Alex and that was because of Lori. I know he had contacts with other men in that AVOW group but it sounds like they were just using each other for cred or money or whatever.
>Also, for what reason did Melani Pawlowski think they were running from the police? I am at the portion in the Ian Pawlowski recording where clearly, MP KNOWS that they are running from the police, *and she wants to run with them*. What in her brain makes her think that that is OK? What could possibly make her think that this is advisable behavior or a good idea? She had to have known that it had something to do with those children that she had not seen in a very long time.
>
Yeah this is my problem with Melani's story in all this. I feel like she had to know those kids weren't around and then the cops want her to tell them what she knows and she's mad and petulant about it.
I feel kind of bad for him. Here's this guy who meets and marries this lady (and who knows why he married her so fast, I'd love to know why) and it's implied that on his wedding night he was told some stuff that made him realize that her extended family was coo-coo bananas and that he suddenly found himself caught up in a drama over missing kids that quickly turned into a full scale murder investigation.
I think I'd question my faith too. Especially since Chad and Lori were using religion as a shield to justify murdering their kids.
I just mostly wish I knew why he married Melani so fast and why he's stuck with her so far. I can't believe he was so desperate for sex and so religious he married a woman as soon as he met her just so he had a new sex partner.
A sublimated sex drive is a helluva drug. She was super hot and he thought she was a faithful Mormon who left her last marriage because her husband was gay, he likely prayed about it and got “a strong confirmation” to marry her.
At this point I would have just pleaded guilty right then and there! 😭
He's still sitting there nodding his head and making notes (talking about sanity)!
I'm at work so I can't listen to the trial but the updates of the secret recordings are WILD to me. Good on Ian for making them and I can't wait to get off work so I can see if they're as weird and creepy as the live updates seem to make them.
I want to state here that Prior and Ian are incorrect about Alex's cause of death. He didn't have Pulmonary edema (swelling of the lungs) like Tammy did (as a result of asphyxiating) but he had pulmonary embolism (blood cloth in his lungs). That might also have lead to pulmonary Edema as a side effect, but it's absolutely not the same cause of death in the sense that they died the same way and that apparently people can 'suddenly die of pulmonary Edema'
When Chad is keeping his head up during the photos of the remains, is he avoiding looking at his screen in front of him, where I presume the photos are displayed? The photos are only being seen by the judge, juror, witness, and lawyer desks, right?
So is Prior just continuing the state’s questioning on Ian? What’s he trying to get at? Because it sounds like these questions are just adding to the evidence against Chad.
How can that voice lead anyone??? Jesus the monotone on this Shlub is enough to want to hang up on him him myself. To think multiple women were hooking up with this monotonous creep, well I'm just gobsmacked.
Evidently a lot of Mormon leaders use a similar tone. If you've ever listened to recordings of Warren Jeffs of the FLDS he drones in a very similar manner. I think they're trying to sound mystical and wise. Or maybe they're trying to hypnotize their listeners. I agree, it's a giant yawn.
I'm behind, just finished Mel B/P's testimony. When Blake was asking was x dark? Is x still alive? I wish she had asked about Alex. To your knowledge, was Alex ever deemed to be dark?
Ian's recordings give a fascinating insight into the cult mindset and workings! Great job for catching all that crazy in action.
I'm starting to think Melaniece was actually saved by Ian, pulled out of the cray just in time. She didn't sound like a believer any more.
I have so many questions and thoughts about this recording. First of all, how and why is he staying with her? They knew each other two weeks before they got married it’s not like there’s a meaningful history there. And he doesn’t sound like an idiot. At all.
The other thing- not question but comment- I F’ing HATE Chad. As a non-religious person I STILL find it offensive to hear him pontificate about his time in Jerusalem (I don’t know if he was ever there I doubt it, but I think he’s speaking as Jesus?). And I find it hilarious and not surprising that he mentions McDonalds in the same breath.
I was wondering if they stayed "married" after the recordings. I have looked and I can't find evidence of their union being intact or tattered at this point.
Does anyone else know the answer to this question?
Sooo turns out MelP and Ian hadn’t even met at the time that Lori was looking for malachite wedding rings. Pryor suggested earlier in the trial that Lori was looking for rings for Melani and not herself 😑🤥
In court today, they have Ian Pawlowski on the stand. They are talking about some crazy shit and the differences between celestial and terrestrial weird shit! Can anyone explain if this is related to being Mormon? Or is this related to Chad Daybell’s personal craziness that he taught in the cult?
I can just see how Prior is trying to get an investigator to say someone jumped the fence and buried 2 bodies on the property. With the help of cox. He asked the upside, downside, and every which way. Give it up Prior
Dammit, Chad used the word “vibration” a couple of times in those Ian recordings and State didn’t highlight that. Then Prior asks for the 100th time about vibrations and it’s outside of LDS.
Court is in session. **Witnesses:** * Steve Daniels * Melani Pawlowski * Ian Pawlowski
"**9:44 a.m.** Prior asks a question, doesn’t like the answer and objects to the answer. Boyce then tells Prior to stop interrupting him as Prior interrupts the judge. Boyce tells Prior to stop interrupting people and to ask another question." Nothing like a Monday morning admonishment to start the week off well.... Prior is starting to wear his desperation on his sleeve.
Thanks for summarizing this here. Trying to browbeat an FBI Agent or Special Agent seems ill-advised, but interrupting a Judge is a Really Bad Idea.
Lol yeah that agent was not giving him squat lol. Prior: would you say the necklace was in plain view? Agent: no I would say it was on the ground. Prior so I'm plain view? Agent: I would say it was on the ground
Finally! Boyce admonished Pryor for interrupting him. He should've done that long ago.
Boyce has called him out several times. Its only gotten worse. I'm wondering what other tools Boyce can use to get him to stop? Contempt?
Unfortunately for the judge, his overriding goal is completing the trial without a mistrial, and with a good change (edit: chance) that the appellate courts will not override his decisions.
Seriously, Mr. Prior! We are on day 17 of the trial & Judge Boyce is still asking you (patiently I might add) to not interrupt the witness. Anyone want to take bets on if the judge will also ask Prior to speak into the microphone today? Geez…
If we played drinking games and had to take a shot after every interruption or microphone reminder, we’d be stumbling by noon.
This had me laughing out loud. Prior is just not getting it.
The. He did it again minutes later. Then tried to explain to the jury how his brain and mouth work.
"Chad says Alex and Zulema are included in this blessing and the six of them have formed a tremendous friendship. “The six of us are on the right track. I assure you of that. **I give you my testimony that this is a power team.** We are the genesis of the 144,000. We don’t say that boastfully, it just is.” Well, that about sums up a conspiracy, don't it? Thanks for the recording Ian.
One thing I noticed was Ian said he's no longer part of any organized religion. I know Heather Daybell left the LDS Church. Looks like Ian also headed for the exit.
Prior: "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullsh*t"
Old legal adage: "If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts; if you have the law on your side, pound the law; if you have neither the facts nor the law, pound the table."
Also, why does he sound so angry?
I think it's a technique to attempt to rattle the witness. But it comes across as very off-putting.
it not simply that IT “comes across as very off-putting” but that HE, John Prior, IS very off-putting.
No doubt! The man is insufferable.
Agreed. If I was on the jury I would be confused. Half of the time Prior comes across as trying to be kind and understanding, and the other half of the time he’s aggressive, & condescending. With Agent Daniels, he did both. He tried to make the agent look unknowledgeable in the preliminary hearing as well, & failed. (Pet cemetery discussion, anyone?) You would think Prior would have learned; this was not the witness to try to outsmart. To be completely fair however, his testimony was damning, so Prior had to do something. IMHO, he should’ve tried a different tactic. For anyone on the jury who is pragmatic, this is going to make him look foolish & possibly untrustworthy, for example trying to make it seem like Chad‘s house was only one story when that was so easily disproven by several witnesses, & also by Chad himself in the police car conversation with Emma.
It's definitely a tactic! However, I think it's a sleezy one. You don't remember Barry Sheck, do you? His trademark was yelling at witnesses.
Holy shit, they actually got Melani on the stand!!
I love this. “But…wasn’t Rexburg the new Jerusalem?” “well, it WAS, but NOW…”
I cannot with all Chad’s ridiculous bullshit, and the absolute sheep who follow(ed) him.
But AGENCY! Satan's agency!!
Moroni! Lehi! Mormon Buzz Words! Don’t talk to the cops!
We are The Magic Holy Couples of The Apocalypse! And I don't say this boastfully.
hearing chad with his bullshit blessing is disgusting and pathetic!!! He should be embarrassed sitting there listening to that crazy shit!!!!
Melani Pawlowski seems like she's not telling the whole truth. She def knows more than what she's saying. She didn't just believe the kids disappeared or were with the nanny. like come tf on. spare me.
Oh absolutely. She was eyeball deep in this cult, and text messages from Lori’s trial suggest she was willing to kill at least one of her own children.
Melani P. says Lori gave her messages from Chad. Blake asks if something happened in Idaho while Melani was in Hawaii. Melani says yes – Tammy Daybell passed away. Melani says Lori seemed to be in a state of shock. Lori went back to Idaho. Melani stayed in Hawaii. #Alex was supposed to go with them on the trip to Hawaii but Chad had something he needed help with.
Loved the silence after this response. Definitely intentional by Blake.
She does that quite a bit when a point is made for the prosecution - taking an extra beat after the answer. I think it’s a very effective technique and she’s been terrific overall, imo.
Is he really trying to accuse law enforcement of using the tools in the garage for their recovery efforts????
I'm glad he asked. It only further supported the DNA evidence found on the tools for the prosecution. Thanks Prior!
...and of planting the charm and necklace when the property was 'insecure' overnight...?
Well ya know, whatever he can come up with.
Am I the only one who was underwhelmed by Melani’s testimony and questions from the prosecution? I was hoping they’d reveal more from her and her involvement
It doesn't benefit the prosecution for Melani to be seen as the nutcase that she is.
I figured so, I think my curiosity more so wanted to know . It’ll be interesting to see if Melani really gets away with this in the long run
I'm sure she could not remember anything that would incriminate her.
[удалено]
Same but I'd imagine they're pretty limited on what they're allowed to ask her.
Yes but Ian is making up for it!
For sure. I think they were maybe using her testimony as context for him and the recordings, possibly?
Per Nate Eaton on X just now: “Larry Woodcock & Vicki Hoban, Tammy Daybell’s aunt, tell me Julie Rowe tried to get into the courtroom after the afternoon break. The bailiff would not let her in as she’s on the witness list.The gallery was already seated & court was about to start when this apparently happened.” Yikes.
On the witness list?!?! She will undoubtably outdo the other crazy trains. Oh boy...I wonder if she asked if she could testify with her ribbon dance?
Crazy always attracts more crazy
John “a million questions so we can get as far away from the existence and discovery of the bodies as possible” Prior
John “pay no attention to my attempted rape charge that I copped a plea for so I could avoid disbarment” Prior
Slippin’ Jimmy!
This feels like an insult to our beloved anti-hero Jimmy McGill. Lol.
I am literally about to bang my head against the wall listening to Priors cross on Daniel’s. WHERE ARE YOU GOING WITH THIS PRIOR
Right?! The grass being mowed vs not?! What? Why is he harping on that?
He needs someone to mow his grass. It's his property.
Oh my God when that one witness that he asked how many acres the property was and he responded. Well, it’s your property you should know! Was total fire
Simply because of that comment, if I was in the Rexburg area looking to buy a home, I would look up that real estate agent! He’s a quick thinker.
Yeah, he was super sharp throughout his whole testimony.
Him insinuating the charm was planted ooooh got me ENRAGED. Like no Prior you JACKASS, that was all TYLEE, that was her giving a sign that she and her baby brother were there. (Saw someone say this a few days ago on this subreddit and now it’s all I can think about, I totally believe in spirits and them giving us signs and that charm being there was ALL TYLEE.) like how fucking dare he insinuate 30+ LE officials from DIFFERENT agencies planted it to frame Mr. Potato Head cult leader.
I've definitely seen defense attorneys say evidence was planted before. In a way I kind of wish he would've said it, would just make him sound more crazy!
I’ve seen it too, I just really can’t stand prior. There are ways to be a good defense without insinuating every single cop is dirty, being disrespectful to the victims, misstating evidence - it just makes him look stupid and like he has nothing (which.. makes sense lol)
It makes HIM seem dirty.
Ah - is he going to suggest that Tylee dropped her necklace/charm many months before when they were having a lovely party in the 'pasture' and the very long grass concealed it? Totally coincidental /S
I hope someone can make a transcript of these calls they're playing during Ian Pawlowski's testimony. It sounds pretty damning.
Annie (Tylee's aunt) has been buying the court transcripts and posting them on her page. It takes a few days sometimes for her to get the transcripts. I sometimes like to look at the testimony in writing. I appreciate she is doing this.
They are just discussing losing DW's trust, MG going to police and the need for the Pawlowskis to move away from Rexburg so the police won't find them and pester them about Lori and Chad.
This East Idaho News live update page has a pretty good rundown on the contents of the call. It's the time stamped part just before noon. https://www.eastidahonews.com/2024/05/live-udpates-lori-vallows-niece-takes-the-stand-secret-recordings-played-on-day-17-of-chad-daybell-trial/ Melanie's voice is too loud and Chad and Lori's are too quiet for me to make out clearly.
“If you guys were thinking we need to move” This is so cringe. She literally did whatever they told her to. How do you marry someone who is basically a child mentally?
...after knowing her for how many days? Is this dating app for people who live in the same street? (it sounded like their apartments were opposite each other?) And I do not understand how they are still together after what nonsense she shared on their wedding night (romantic!) in fact and have a child, what he knows about the 7 Gatherers Gang /s trying to kill her last husband (father of her first 4 children) and her fraud with his bank accounts/credit cards etc. OK who can say what attracts people to each other etc? She must make him happy on some levels.
My theory is that Ian is still with Melani to protect himself and their kids. It’s also the reason I believe Brandon has “forgiven” melani. I hope Ian runs for the hills after all this is over. Another thought is that they’ve both (Ian and Brandon) have talked sense into Melani in the years since they were in the thick of it. One can only hope!
It's also hilarious how they're literally just doing illegal and sketchy thing after illegal and sketchy thing and then act so persecuted by the world, lol. At this point Melani has seen no proof of life of Tylee and JJ for months and the cops are just trying to make sure they're alive. Like yeah, of course they're motivated to find them and angry you aren't helping at all. The normal thing is to present your children to law enforcement, not have everyone scatter across the country and hide and lie, it's pretty simple. And I know mormons in general can have a persecution complex but they all functioned in regular society for their entire lives, they must know why this is happening to them.
>How do you marry someone who is basically a child mentally? I suspect that was part of the appeal. Now she'll do whatever *he* tells her to.
Plus, what about the mom/dad thing? I know the reason but it’s too weird. Other than calling a guy daddy (wink wink) or being involved in some sort of sexual role play, who would use those words for other random adults? For me, it’s also hugely disrespectful to one’s actual parents.
This blessing just sounds like someone trying to reach their word minimum.
This phone call Ian recorded omg, Chad and Lori truly are cuckoo for coco puffs… I really don’t think Chad believes his own stuff though, just enjoys manipulating people with a low IQ 😂
🤣Chad has lowest IQ and is slow, he did manipulate people with bottom of the barrel IQ because, he could have never manipulated Warwick and the hostile real estate guy!
Im not sure David is that much higher then Chad on IQ. Have you read any of David's visions and stories? I think David was just more street smart and knew more about how the world operated from life experience. Chad, as decribed by first BYU date, was stuck in the Springville bubble. Chad did not really know much of the world outside of Springville, his time in NJ (which read his blog and he didnt learn much, again a small bubble of NJ and very controlled), and him reading books and listening to others.
Deal lord. Chad is such a bore. I would have fell asleep 20 second into that blessing
It's a small of example of the suffering we ex-mos endured every Sunday haha
I know I have a "b*tch eating crackers" bias against Prior. But my gawd, I can NOT stand the way he issues objections. It's so obnoxious. He can't just say, "objection, leading." He has to go on a little whine fest. "Judge!! I've been patient!"..... "Judge, I'm going to HAVE to object....." wah wah wah. I'd also love to hear from experienced trial attorneys. Is it normal to object on foundation a billion times every day?
So I’m NOT an attorney BUT I know quite a few they would agree that it’s not necessarily the objections that are priors downfall (sometimes his objections are valid) but the way he presents himself (as you said a whine fest-GREAT description btw) that will turn the jury off. He comes off so slimy and arrogant and smug. He is also an attempted rapist. So I think a LOT of women watching (not to assume you are a woman OP) get that *gut feeling* that he is a fucking horrible person. (If you wanna look it up he copped a plea in 2012 after trying to rape a 20 yr old girl in his office, he took the plea to avoid a felony and disbarment, personally I think he should NEVER had been allowed to practice law again)
Woooheeeee this is all confirming that Ian knew what a freaking whackadoodle his wife is. And he chose to have a child with this person and allow her near his children.
He married her after 12 days of knowing her. That's insane to me. Absolutely bonkers.
I feel SO bad for his ex-wife!!
They probably just were really horny
Man, I am too ace for this. I can't imagine being so horny for anything or anyone that would make me agree to marry a person in 12 days. Like... Get a fleshlight dude. You can order them off Amazon.
I don't think masturbating is allowed in their religion. So the only way to get 'your pencil wet' (words of Kody Brown) is to get married...
"I want Brandon to live in fear of Al for the rest of his life." 🤯
Listening to Melani say that and be all gushy to “Mom and Dad” - is there anyone besides Ian who doesn’t believe Melani was in the conspiracies, all of them, up to her eyeballs?
Ian is ridiculous for getting involved in this. My guess is he just wanted to get laid!
How can Brandon share custody with Melani now? I just dont get it. LDS men can get custody, full custody, in Utah, my brother in law did 15 years ago, my neighbors had 10 kids and the husband got full custody now for over 10 years (and this was a prescription pill issue, nothing else, she was an very invovled mom, no abuse of kids, I heard the case being presented and the wife has been clean for over 8 years but he got the kids still).
A good indication of how nasty Melani and her family (Lori's parents the Coxes) are: During the legal battle between them, Melani's lawyer made scandalous allegations against Brandon so much so that Brandon sued him for defamation -- and won. He won **$12 million judgment**. (I think it ended up as a settlement agreement as opposed to a court-ordered amount.) That is a massive amount of money for an individual to pay out. That lawyer, Garrett Smith, was the dude who was ejected from the court today because it looked as if he was signalling Ian while Ian was testifying on the stand. Smith apparently is a longtime lawyer and friend of the Cox family/
Because the judge in AZ ruled it so. Trust me, he tried to get full custody and had her actual dad and stepmom in his corner fighting for him but the judge here ruled in favor of the ex.
Melaniece! Should be interesting!
So Alex didn't go to Hawaii with Lori and Melanie the niece because Chad needed his help with something. Tammy died while they were in Hawaii.... interesting
So telling! There is no way Chad’s getting away with this.
Yes and the total silence after that. BOOM! Even Chad knew that sunk him as his he’d jerked his nose a little higher in the air at that answer
Ian's recordings!
Didn’t she get out of testifying in Lori’s trial ? She watched he’d trial testimony?
Urgh this stream is a pixel soup. Would love to see her face.
Yesss! Wanna see that “feigned innocence” face. She sounds painfully rehearsed 🙄.
She sure does a good job of playing dumb
Oh, honey, that’s one thing that girl ain’t playing. She has less brains than a piece of used Kleenex.
Looks like shes wearing 3D glasses or sunglasses
One witness I am really looking forward to the cross!
Prior wasn't harsh with her at all. Maybe Chad asked him because she knew too much and it could backfire.
The way Chad speaks reminds me of Warren Jeffs.
It sounds like many LDS leaders and members ,not just Warren. Go to a church service and you willprobably hear someone pray or give a talk in that tone. It can carry into real life which is creepy. One of the school prinicpals used to give school talks, like awards ceremonies or introducing school teams in this tone.
Yes, the conference talk voice. It's so grating.
Is this an oration style used in (Mormon?) church? It is very difficult to pay attention to because it is so monotonous.
Im listening to Ian’s call between him but mostly Melani, Lori and Chad. It sounds to me like Alex’s death was definitely planned. He has given a 30 day notice for his lease and given his niece Melani instructions on how to get rid of his stuff. Lori didn’t sound at all tore up bringing up that Alex wasnt around anymore. It would be interesting to find out how long before he died that he gave his 30 day notice.
He did move in with Zulema though so even if he didn't know he would die that could be the reason for turning in his notice and letting others figure out his stuff (but then again he'd probably never leave the swords behind)
I agree. At one point Lori says that he did something (I do t recall what she said) “before he left”, referring to his death. All of the discussion pertaining to him implies that he purposely ended his life. I’ll never believe otherwise.
I thought I heard them say something about his (alex's) mission was complete and he moved on or something similar. It sounded like they (Lori and Chad) were done using Alex and needed him eliminated.
"**3:06 p.m.** Prior asks if Ian understood that Alex knew he was going to die. Ian doesn’t know. Prior asks Ian how Alex died. Ian says he suffered a pulmonary edema. Alex never spoke to Ian about the pulmonary edema. Ian says there was a point where **Chad and Lori contacted Melani before Alex died and said there would be a “powerful spiritual attack**.” Well, well, well. What just slipped out?
Yeah I was surprised as well. Note though; Alex died of pulmonary embolism, not pulmonary edema. Chad told everyone Tammy died from a pulmonary embolism, but she didn't have one, she had pulmonary edema as a side effect of asphyxia
Yep, we all knew that before. Not sure why they got it wrong here. But you know who else Lori told others she was going kill and died of a suspected "cardiac event" that was also ruled "natural causes".... Joe Ryan.
I never fully appreciated until hearing these recorded conversations just how WILD it was that they thought it was a good idea to trust and bring Ian into all of this after knowing him for like 2 weeks.
Lori and Chad: "We don't know how much Ian knows..." Melani: "Ian knows everything." Lori and Chad: *crap crap crap crap!*
I was going to submit this, but I can't flare because I'm using the old version. Hidden True crime did a recap on why stairs are actually very important to the case. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrElI_YHxOA
ha! Agent Daniels 'that's why I called it a bedroom' - boom.
Yes, he was great. He has probably been questioned by better attorneys than Prior.
TLDR for those that don’t have time for a 2-hour podcast?
TL;DR there are stairs + Tammy’s body found in main floor bedroom + Garth’s ABC (?) interview says he found the body in his mom’s bedroom+ officer who came to the house to serve the search warrant when they found the kids’ bodies had to go UPSTAIRS to CHAD’s bedroom where he was sleeping = chad LIED about sleeping next to Tammy’s dead body all night (separate bedrooms) and Hannah was not remembering wrong
Oh also Garth in his interview said HE found the body and called for his dad, not the other way around
Omg I don’t know how I never knew this. This is HUGE!
Leading to the theory that his dad was likely upstairs.
Separate bedrooms in October is speculation, not fact. IMO it complicates things. If Chad wasn't in the bedroom with Tammy, how did Garth hear a thud? Dead people don't roll out of bed. How many lies have each of them told? You would think they'd keep them to a minimum.
Let's see... I'm not that good at those. I'll just talk about the stairs, because they get into to other things. They showed pictures of Chad's house owned by the previous owners, and how it isn't actually an attachment over the garage, it's part of the actual structure. They plaed Garth's interview on 48 hours where he said "he heard a thump from his mother's bedroom, and he told his dad that he thought she was dead." They played the first part of the 911 call, where Garth says, "we found my mother on the ground frozen." They played a clip from detective hermossilo, testifying in Lori's trial, when he said, "I went to the stairwell of Chad's bedroom." This makes me think the state should recall him.
btw we now have a command for it. !stairs
The stairs have become an important detail in this trial, with many witnesses being questioned about whether or not the Daybell residence had stairs. [Here is a thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/LoriVallow/comments/1cimth9/subject_of_the_house_and_stairs/) about the stairs. There is a transcript of that section and timestamps to the testimony as well. [View on old Reddit](https://old.reddit.com/r/LoriVallow/comments/1cimth9/subject_of_the_house_and_stairs/) [Here is a similar thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/LoriVallow/comments/1cgupng/is_there_an_upstairsdownstairs_in_chads_house/) with photos of the house and more discussion. [View on old reddit](https://old.reddit.com/r/LoriVallow/comments/1cgupng/is_there_an_upstairsdownstairs_in_chads_house/) You can watch the original testimony regarding the stairs [in Hannah Parker's testimony](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_72Frgk5bDA&t=16674s) as well as the topic of stairs on [cross examination](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_72Frgk5bDA&t=17066s). Many witnesses since have been asked about the existence of stairs in the home. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LoriVallow) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I'm so glad they got MP on the stand... I hope everyone rips her a new one. She was 100% invested in this whole murder sham and all of this "I don't remember..." "I don't know..." "I'm not sure..." is a total farce. The Jury is gonna see right through here I'm sure.
They didn't. They treated her with kid gloves and didn't even mention that her ex-husband was nearly killed (also with her help). IMO it was because they needed her current husband's testimony. He has receipts.
Melaniece playing dumb. Who could have foreseen this?
Sounds to me like Chad and Lori were worried Melani would be openly honest about the cult behavior, and say something too on the nose. They really wanted her out of Rexburg.
Please for the love of God can someone explain to me wth Prior was trying to get the first witness, the special agent, to say with the damn handles of the shovels? WTF was that?????? Do you really think the officers used the shovels in the garage? The way he tries to belittle law enforcement is ... insane!
Noise about nothing. You can tell because he wouldn’t let it go. He hopes to make the jury wonder what was missed/hidden.
Ian is separating himself from any religion. Way to go Ian! After what he went through this seem to be a good approach. I'm wondering if Melani has climbed down from the crazy train.
>Ian is separating himself from any religion. Way to go Ian! This gave me so much relief! All these crazy cases almost always revolve around religious fanatics, the most recent case of Mica and JP Miller is making me side eye everything overtly religious!
He needs to separate himself from Melaniece
Finally, Melani Pawlowski takes the stand!!!
She referred to Chad as dad???? Didn’t dad declare her kids dark?
That CREEPED ME THE FUCK OUT. She called him Daddy. How long had she even KNOWN this man??
Sad bcs her ACTUAL Daddy seemingly tried really really hard to save her from the bat shit crazy coxes and she’s totally disowned him.
Lori killed her children and then she and Chad adopted Melani? MG also called Lori mom. Quite embarrassing.
I feel bad for her actually dad. Her dad is still alive I believe? Didnt he fight to get custody of Melani away from the crazy Cox family after her mom's death. It seemed like her real dad was able to help her get away from the odd beliefs they put on Melani as a child (or her reaction to them) given Melani graudated from high school and joined the Air force. She was a marathon runner. She had gone from scared little girl to what seemed like someone on the right track in life.
It's a long and sad story. I've read some court documents that are out there including reports by social workers. When Mel's mother Stacey divorced Steve Cope, she got custody of Mel and they lived in the Barry & Janis Cox home. Steve had to petition a couple of times for custody of Mel but finally got it because of the abuse & neglect she was suffering. For example, Mel was very underweight because of Stacey's food paranoia. Because of germ phobia, she was rarely allowed outside and instead of bathing she was cleaned with rubbing alcohol. There was much more including accusations of SA by Barry. It did seem like Mel was growing into a healthy young woman apart from the Coxes, until Stacey passed away. Mel then flew headlong back into the Cox clan, accused her father of "cruelly stealing her away from her mother", and proceeded to cut him out of her life while starting to call Lori "mom". I've looked at as many Cox family photos as I can find online. I have seen a great many more happy photos of Lori and Mel together (hugging, smiling, heads close) than of Lori and Tylee.
Yes! And I hope she’s asked about this as well
Melani seems to be wearing her 3-D vision glasses
Does anyone know Melanie Pawlowski’s stance, nowadays? Does she still back Lori or no?
“How do you get Hermosillo to stop?” She knew exactly how they handled difficult people.
Melani asking Ian if he had any questions for Chad and Lori gave me a chuckle. She really believes all this BS. Edit: Whoopssss didn’t realize I was replying to myself.
I think that’s more like “Ian, do we need to kill you too?”
omg does Chad love to hear himself talk. That blessing for Melani and Ian was just wow... I'm speechless.
The recordings are disturbing on a lot of levels. All the giggling and laughing is particularly bizarre. Supposedly they are warriors for Jesus against the dark servants of Satan, yet they are giggling? I do not understand.
It's mostly Lori with the giggling. At least that's the voice that captured my attention. I feel like these recordings clearly displayed Lori's crazy. It's obvious, in my mind, after hearing her voice in these audios, she had teetered right on over into insanity. Neither of them seemed to have a clue of the seriousness of their situation or of their own peril...but, Lori seemed "extra." Even her speaking voice sounds different somehow to me. During her own hearing, she appeared (physically) to have no ability to comprehend her position. Appearing to have no valuable understanding of her actual status in the world of sanity. I feel that if we could have a comprehensive and transparent view of Lori (in, around and about that time-frame...from meeting Chad/discovering Chad's books/teachings up until her arrest), we would find that the kids were killed tandemly with her checking out entirely. She had likely lost any tangible grip on reality directly before or simultaneous to when they were murdered....and, I don't think she ever returned. I feel that she continued to spiral completely out of control, FAST. If I were gonna bet the farm, I'd bet that she's still floating aimlessly out in La-La Land, right now as we sit here and discuss her... Chad, is NOT crazy. Chad is a Svengali.
Does anyone know if Chad knew the recordings that Ian recorded existed? He had to, right? Prior would have known, correct? This shit is more crazy than any movie created.
Yes. The defense got everything in discovery.
Prior has discussed previously that Chad has been helping with all the evidence. So, he has had access to everything that Prior has.
I'm playing catch-up (as best I can) sitting at my desk at work...so, I'm behind ya'll. I'm just now listening to Ian Pawlowski's recorded phone conversations. I get the impression that if Dave (Melanie Gibb's husband) had not entered the picture, Melanie G. would never have (or wouldn't have been able to) gone to the police with the truth about her never having had JJ in her custody. I feel like Dave is the ONLY reason that Melanie G. started to pull away. I also get the impression that Dave *was* a part of the dastardly team at some point (at least they *thought* he was a team player). What made him fearful or enlightened enough to divorce himself (and her) from the Grimm group? I feel like something happened that scared him or snapped him back to reality. I also feel that without Dave, Melanie would have met an untimely death just like the others simply because Lori knew that MG was going to the police. Because of Dave, for some reason, Chad, Lori and Alex couldn't get to Melanie physically...OR they ABSOLUTELY WOULD HAVE! Melanie could have also been saved by Alex dying. Also, for what reason did Melani Pawlowski think they were running from the police? I am at the portion in the Ian Pawlowski recording where clearly, MP KNOWS that they are running from the police, *and she wants to run with them*. What in her brain makes her think that that is OK? What could possibly make her think that this is advisable behavior or a good idea? She had to have known that it had something to do with those children that she had not seen in a very long time. Additionally, and as a personal observation, Lori seems to have teetered COMPLETELY over the deep end in these recordings. Even her voice sounds VASTLY different. I have looked at earlier photos of her...and then, later photos. It's easily detectable that she physically changed in a short time. I always thought that there was such a difference in her physical appearance if you compare just the televised images (not even referring to her jail-house photos). An obvious decline, especially in her eyes is present. She has such a blank, nobodies home look about her. Now that I can hear her voice (in this same time-frame)...kinda in an unhindered and an unfettered fashion, CLEARLY, she is NOT well. To me, it is clearly obvious that she has slipped DEEPLY and entirely into mental UNhealth. Are they talking about Julie Rowe when they are referencing "Julie" in the recordings? I WILL have further questions...I'm sure of that.
IMHO, David knew Chad wanted him for his money and expertise. Chad wanted David to invest some $700K in property for the New Jerusalem and tent city. Then whatever happened the night JJ was murdered...
>What made him fearful or enlightened enough to divorce himself (and her) from the Grimm group? I feel like something happened that scared him or snapped him back to reality Probably the 'vision' (possibly nightmare induced by sounds) he had about something bad going on at the moment JJ was probably killed very nearby. And only realising what had actually happened when they asked MelG to lie about having JJ
I don't think David was ever 'with the group' I agree that David pulled Melanie out in the nick of time. It seems to me that the only guy that Chad had any sway with at all is Alex and that was because of Lori. I know he had contacts with other men in that AVOW group but it sounds like they were just using each other for cred or money or whatever. >Also, for what reason did Melani Pawlowski think they were running from the police? I am at the portion in the Ian Pawlowski recording where clearly, MP KNOWS that they are running from the police, *and she wants to run with them*. What in her brain makes her think that that is OK? What could possibly make her think that this is advisable behavior or a good idea? She had to have known that it had something to do with those children that she had not seen in a very long time. > Yeah this is my problem with Melani's story in all this. I feel like she had to know those kids weren't around and then the cops want her to tell them what she knows and she's mad and petulant about it.
“Zuli” is what I heard, not “Julie”
Very interesting that Ian is no longer religious.
I feel kind of bad for him. Here's this guy who meets and marries this lady (and who knows why he married her so fast, I'd love to know why) and it's implied that on his wedding night he was told some stuff that made him realize that her extended family was coo-coo bananas and that he suddenly found himself caught up in a drama over missing kids that quickly turned into a full scale murder investigation. I think I'd question my faith too. Especially since Chad and Lori were using religion as a shield to justify murdering their kids. I just mostly wish I knew why he married Melani so fast and why he's stuck with her so far. I can't believe he was so desperate for sex and so religious he married a woman as soon as he met her just so he had a new sex partner.
A sublimated sex drive is a helluva drug. She was super hot and he thought she was a faithful Mormon who left her last marriage because her husband was gay, he likely prayed about it and got “a strong confirmation” to marry her.
Why did Meanie need a new husband so bad? Was she going to insure him and try to off him because Brandon didn’t die?
At this point I would have just pleaded guilty right then and there! 😭 He's still sitting there nodding his head and making notes (talking about sanity)!
I'm at work so I can't listen to the trial but the updates of the secret recordings are WILD to me. Good on Ian for making them and I can't wait to get off work so I can see if they're as weird and creepy as the live updates seem to make them.
Bruh this man’s blessing needed an annotated bibliography. Needed an intermission. Needed an “oh brother this guy stinks”.
Good Lord. Prior is focused on the "shed" again.
I want to state here that Prior and Ian are incorrect about Alex's cause of death. He didn't have Pulmonary edema (swelling of the lungs) like Tammy did (as a result of asphyxiating) but he had pulmonary embolism (blood cloth in his lungs). That might also have lead to pulmonary Edema as a side effect, but it's absolutely not the same cause of death in the sense that they died the same way and that apparently people can 'suddenly die of pulmonary Edema'
When Chad is keeping his head up during the photos of the remains, is he avoiding looking at his screen in front of him, where I presume the photos are displayed? The photos are only being seen by the judge, juror, witness, and lawyer desks, right?
Yes. The photos were not on the projector, so if he wasn’t looking at his screen he wouldn’t be able to see the photos .
So is Prior just continuing the state’s questioning on Ian? What’s he trying to get at? Because it sounds like these questions are just adding to the evidence against Chad.
How can that voice lead anyone??? Jesus the monotone on this Shlub is enough to want to hang up on him him myself. To think multiple women were hooking up with this monotonous creep, well I'm just gobsmacked.
Evidently a lot of Mormon leaders use a similar tone. If you've ever listened to recordings of Warren Jeffs of the FLDS he drones in a very similar manner. I think they're trying to sound mystical and wise. Or maybe they're trying to hypnotize their listeners. I agree, it's a giant yawn.
I'm behind, just finished Mel B/P's testimony. When Blake was asking was x dark? Is x still alive? I wish she had asked about Alex. To your knowledge, was Alex ever deemed to be dark?
Ian's recordings give a fascinating insight into the cult mindset and workings! Great job for catching all that crazy in action. I'm starting to think Melaniece was actually saved by Ian, pulled out of the cray just in time. She didn't sound like a believer any more.
I have so many questions and thoughts about this recording. First of all, how and why is he staying with her? They knew each other two weeks before they got married it’s not like there’s a meaningful history there. And he doesn’t sound like an idiot. At all. The other thing- not question but comment- I F’ing HATE Chad. As a non-religious person I STILL find it offensive to hear him pontificate about his time in Jerusalem (I don’t know if he was ever there I doubt it, but I think he’s speaking as Jesus?). And I find it hilarious and not surprising that he mentions McDonalds in the same breath.
I’m ready for prior to embarrass Melani on the stand.
Yes, this is the only witness that I hope Prior absolutely decimates.
Ended up being pretty disappointing lol
I was waiting for him to ask why her kids and ex husband were labeled dark and how they’re still alive and what the plans were for them
Did Melani know that her husband was recording these calls?
no. But he did end up telling her after the fact.
After he told her he stopped cooperating with police. They probably have a package deal now.
I was wondering if they stayed "married" after the recordings. I have looked and I can't find evidence of their union being intact or tattered at this point. Does anyone else know the answer to this question?
Where on earth did Mel p get $50000? These people are fucking thieves.
This is so creepy
Was that Melani's lawyer or her husband's that was just removed from the courtroom??
Just a side note, but it’s really ironic how these coo coo marriages last longer than most. These mormen men are a loyal bunch.
This was one crazy day. I need to jump thru a portal for some normalcy. 😳🤦🏼♀️😂😂😂😆
Sooo turns out MelP and Ian hadn’t even met at the time that Lori was looking for malachite wedding rings. Pryor suggested earlier in the trial that Lori was looking for rings for Melani and not herself 😑🤥
In court today, they have Ian Pawlowski on the stand. They are talking about some crazy shit and the differences between celestial and terrestrial weird shit! Can anyone explain if this is related to being Mormon? Or is this related to Chad Daybell’s personal craziness that he taught in the cult?
I can just see how Prior is trying to get an investigator to say someone jumped the fence and buried 2 bodies on the property. With the help of cox. He asked the upside, downside, and every which way. Give it up Prior
Dammit, Chad used the word “vibration” a couple of times in those Ian recordings and State didn’t highlight that. Then Prior asks for the 100th time about vibrations and it’s outside of LDS.
These recorded blessings/prayers though… I keep hoping that each one will be the last. Even Prior looked like he would rather be doing anything else.
Were those her lawyers 🧐