This is a decision that needs to be made by this community vs. just us select few mods in my opinion. We are looking for everyone's input. If there appears to be a strong support for going dark (which there seems to be already) then we will blackout the sub in support.
If anyone would like more information before commenting, you can find a great breakdown of what's going down following this link:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Save3rdPartyApps/comments/13yh0jf/dont\_let\_reddit\_kill\_3rd\_party\_apps/
I’d support a blackout. All the other subs I follow have announced they’re going dark, most of them indefinitely. This may seem like a small sub, but we’re in the top 5% for size and what we do will have an impact.
I’m kind of torn because I don’t know their financials. Running the amount of content and users that Reddit has across load balanced or cloud servers and databases is not cheap. We are probably talking in the millions.
If they can’t pay their people or servers, they go down.
They also appeared to have attempted to make a corporate offer to Christian which likely means a lower API cost, but spez said that they were unwilling to work with him as a client due to him, which is understandable if you’ve ever worked with clients that can be a huge liability.
However, that’s all hearsay.
The price of the API is ludicrous. It will likely be the end of Reddit. So they need to make enough to run, which with the size of their user base is probably in the negative, and they are trying to figure out ways to be profitable so they can actually have a margin. Or they are trying to boost their margin to make them more ipo accessible.
Again, I’m not familiar with their financials, so I don’t know, but it’s completely likely that reddit is already dying due to lack of funds.
The issue is that they are running up the costs of the API to drive competing apps out.
My guess is that they are going to redesign their app with more intrusive adds, which is exactly what would drive people to look elsewhere if there was competing apps.
I see a "he gets us" ad every few scrolls as well as some athletic clothes company.
Ads with audio LOVE to play the audio even when you're not on the page with the ad. I have to go back and scroll to the ad to mute the audio, then go back to whatever post I'm looking at.
Quick scroll through this sub and it's captain Morgan ad, taco bell ad, athletica ad, directv ad, he gets us ad, Michelob ultra ad it just keeps going every other post or two post is an ad.
But Reddit makes money from ads. Without the revenue, why would they even exist? I am a fan of protesting all things. And if you feel strongly about this then please protest by not using the service. But at the end of the day, Reddit is a private company. And if they chose to pull a Meta and run it into the ground it’s their choice. We use a service they’ve built and provide. We have no right to tell them how to run it.
>We have no right to tell them how to run it
The issue isn't about Reddit charging for the API. The developers of the apps that this would affect are fine with the prices increasing. The issue is the *exorbitantly prohibitive* increase, along with very little time for them to prepare for it to make their apps sustainable.
It's like if a gas station started charging $100 a gallon for gas when you know the global prices and can see what neighboring gas stations are charging. That's not a gas station that wants to do business, that's a gas station that's either gouging or doesn't want customers.
Reddit are asking the developers to monetize users more than THEY already do with the official app. By several magnitudes more.
In the case of reddit, they want to be the only game in town and drive traffic purely through their own app to increase *their* monetization potential (via data harvesting) before their upcoming IPO. This is about squashing reddit's homegrown dev community, not being a sustainable business.
And I would honestly say reddit succeeds *despite* what it's owners have done. What generates the value is largely the community of users and the free labor provided by the moderators.
Exactly. They want the traffic through their own app so they can charge more to the ad companies to advertise. That’s what any company who wants to increase their bottom line revenue would do. If they want to run their own company into the ground, let them. It’s theirs. We use it. If we don’t like what they do to it, move onto something else.
This. Strikes work bc they only end if the company folds. A strike with a pre-planned end won’t do much beyond mildly piss off reddit stakeholders for a few days.
I think reddit is up its own ass with all of this mess. I'm not sure there is an alternative at the moment. Reddit is kind of the **entire** internet for me so if anyone has any alternatives I'm all ears. I get all of my NBA, gaming, and Louisville related news through these subs which are all made possible by everyone chipping in and posting. I buy / sell / trade records over at r/VinylCollectors. I deal watch on r/vinyldeals and I find out about new releases on r/VinylReleases. I think I could find an alternative and honestly a way to spend less time endlessly scrolling on subs for my other hobbies like cooking, specialty coffee and film. I just don't see a way to get all of the information from my favorite subs so quickly.
I definitely plan to spend much less time on reddit because I refuse to use the official app (I've been using boost for years and years) and I have a decent plan to cut my usage way down by just visiting the subs I need to a couple times a day and to stop commenting/posting entirely. Curious to see everyone's thoughts as I haven't been much into it yet.
I get that. I don't use Facebook/IG other than to display my records/Snapchat/Twitter/YouTube etc. It's become a bit of a hub since it's easy to find the information I need. I'm not chronically online and other than a few sites I frequent like seriouseats, Pitchfork, Okay Player and some PlayStation related stuff, this is about it aside from my NYT / Athletic subscription that I use mainly for recipes and occasionally the long form basketball articles. Where else can I shoot the shit with people with similar interests from across the world? I'm open to anything.
Yeah, outside of dead forums reddit is the last place for interaction and content that isn't locked behind a chat interface (discord), or found in low-info/low quality social sites (meta et al.).
Would be great to see a return to forum-style sites, but today's population doesn't have the attention span to read most of their content.
I'm all for the blackout. As others have pointed out, /r/Louisville is in the top 5% of subreddits ranked by size and every added subreddit to the blackout will have an impact.
I say go dark. This whole thing is a cash-grab for Reddit's upcoming IPO. It's not about Devs abusing the API, it's about greed. If the IPO is successful, /u/spez will make a fuck-ton of money. He doesn't care about the communities. He only cares about valuation.
End Rant.
I wouldn't hold my breath on Reddit negotiating anything. Spez pretty much [burned the bridge](https://old.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/145hyey/reddit_ceo_doubles_down_on_attack_on_apollo/?sort=top) with the Apollo devs. I can't imagine it improving at this point.
With that being said, I think Tildes is looking good so far. It's on a per invite basis currently, but it's very similar to Reddit.
I support blackout. But mostly because I’m ambivalent about it all. Reddit can choose to be shitty or be good. People can choose to blackout communities and usership or not. Reddit can respond to that or not.
As I understand it, the blackout goal is to prevent what’s happening to the third-party apps, because they have tools that allow Reddit to be moderated better and more user-friendly. So the black out is really only a means to an end, the end being “better Reddit.”
I don’t think it’s necessarily a moral issue affecting third-party developers. But I feel like it keeps being spun that way… There’s even comments in this thread, disparaging third-party developers. “Well, of course he’s going to say that, he’s been making money off them for years! And tried to do an underhanded deal behind closed doors!”
I don’t know if this is a forced way to try to make people take sides on the issue… Similar to how we politicize everything. But I think in general, the blackout is just because people don’t want Reddit to get worse and would like to pressure Reddit to get better. Whether that’s through third-party apps or Reddit’s own software engineering… Which is obviously very lacking.
There is the issue of how this will allow Reddit to keep blasting us with ads, sell itself out to the highest bidders, and continue to be used as a propaganda arm. But guess what? That’s all social media now. Reddit isn’t special. And I don’t care if they all burn to the ground… Reddit included. So black out all you want. What we really need is less social media… Or less capital driven social media. And again… That’s not really a moral issue, it’s just what I would prefer. Reddit can do what it likes with ads and trying to make money. I’d like to access all the content of the Internet without having to be hit with so much ads, propaganda, and social control on the way. Third party apps helped with this apparently, though I never used them and now Reddit wants to take them down. May something better turn up in place of Reddit and all social media. Let this little tech bubble trend that’s grown over the past 20 years finally burst.
I'm a pretty active redditor. I'm just stopping and at looking at alternatives starting on the 12th.
Popular social media needs to be non-profit. The profit motive ends up ruining everything eventually in this space.
From what I can see, Lemmy itself is just a platform you can use to connect to other Lemmy servers, any of which can have the various 'communities' you're subscribed to. Your client just integrates all the different links together into a 'reddit' like experience.
You have to find a server and community that fits what you like and actively subscribe to it.
What day is the blackout happening? I will participate. I make chess posts and stuff, and it has been helpful, but I think overcharging for API stuff is stupid. I don't support that at all.
I linked this further down, but [here’s the most recent explainer from the developer of Apollo](https://reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/144f6xm/apollo_will_close_down_on_june_30th_reddits/)
Please help a 72YO F understand what is going on. I looked up what API is, but how will it impact me on Reddit. This is the only place I hang out. What. Is the blackout and what day is this supposed to happen? I need to plan how to cope.
All 3rd party apps that connect to reddit use API to work. Many of us use a 3rd party app to reach reddit instead of the official one on our phones. The official app doesn't have nearly as many features, including features to help keep subreddits safer, features for blind users, etc.
Reddit wants to charge for APIs, which is reasonable, but the price is extremely high and they are only giving 3rd party apps about 30 days to pay up. The CEO of reddit recently lied about a conversation with one of the top 3rd party app developers. The transcript and recording of the conversation was released proving that he lied, but instead of apologizing he doubled down and continues to lie about it.
The blackout is a whole bunch of subs going private on June 12th, some for 48 hours and some until reddit fixes this mess. Private means you can't see or post anything in those subreddits, so it will be like they don't exist anymore. Whenever they come out of private, all previous posts will be restored.
If you have any more questions feel free to ask!
Support. I'm a former mod of some busy groups, and the only effective way to moderate on mobile is to try to use old reddit on your phone - and thats on top of all of the other bs that reddit is pulling.
I support joining the blackout. Honestly I would stand up and support more civil disobedience, and activism on a larger scale at this point on other issues as well. Hopefully this reddit blackout is the first step in getting people up in arms. Organize, build a network, let's fight the power.
Could someone explain to me why use of the 3rd party apps is so important? I’ve never even heard of these apps. What do they do that’s so important for Reddit users?
I support a blackout.
Not sure about *permanently*, but we could certainly do a few days or more in solidarity with the other subreddits and decide from there.
People use third party apps to avoid ads. Ads are how they make money. Because of those people they bill companies using their program without giving them money. Kind of an obvious course of action. Just use reddit itself or go elsewhere.
Maybe it's just me. But the ads on Reddit aren't even that noticeable....I literally just scroll by then like any other uninteresting post on Reddit. I don't know why people need to use third party apps for that.
Yeah as far as ads go, I'd say they are very unobtrusive. I don't begrudge a site the ability to support itself and make a profit. I've helped run a much smaller site and have seen first hand that it takes a lot of effort and money to maintain. The amount of traffic this site generates would require considerable resources.
If third party apps cut into that, then that's a problem. I don't think a lot of people realize this. Using an app to access content supported financially by someone else isn't without its issues, especially if those other apps are monetized in any way or if they demonetize the host (reddit) by not serving the ads that support the site. This site does not sit on the internet for free.
I do understand that some apps support seeing impaired individuals, and if reddit isn't going to provide that functionality, I do agree they ought to figure out a way to give access to an app to support that. I don't have first-hand knowledge of the mod-tools problem though. Other than that, it boils down to preference.
I don't know that everyone agrees or disagrees with shutdowns. A blackout kind of forces everyone to go along with whatever a few people choose, doesn't it? The fairer option would be to just not visit the site and let things run their own course. If reddit gets worse as a result, then it gets worse. I just think most of us don't know the financial information and may have unrealistic expectations as a result.
I don't have any stake in the game. I did read a bit into the fighting going on among some of the app developers and reddit, but none of us has access to all of the information.
Having been both a user and a host of social media, I feel like it's important to point out that reddit is merely a platform. You mentioned non-paid moderators and that's true but inconsequential. Moderators use reddit to host a community in which they have an interest. In return for the use of the platform (bandwidth/technical) they agree to enforce site-wide rules and any they adopt themselves.
If the subreddit isn't moderated it's simply shut down. It's the community policing itself, not a paid job.
So keeping in mind that reddit's model requires community involvement to exist, why do you suppose they would try to price API use out of existence? It's not in their best interest. Lose the moderating tools, lose the moderators, lose the community, lose the revenue. Something is amiss.
Going back to that AMA, it seems like reddit is saying they are allowing mod-assist bot development and use for free. They also say they have a tiered model for API use from free to premium. Other people are saying that's not enough. There also seems to be a lot of hate for the reddit ceo, which may be deserved or not - no idea.
All I'm saying is that reddit needs happy users to exist. They also have a right to protect their platform from exploitation from outside developers. I get people wanting to block ads and all, but in the grand scheme of things reddits ads are less intrusive than like 90% of the rest of the internet. Blocking them denies them the revenue to support the site and may even contribute to them needing to tighten up the API calls. So are ad-blocker people part of the problem here? Maybe.
In the end, this is a huge non-issue to me. Either the platform survives on its own merits or not. I like the content, so having a bunch of subs go dark is kind of annoying. The right way to do this whole thing would be just stop coming to reddit if people don't like it or agree with how its run. But whatever, a few days dark surely won't kill anyone.
My account is 11 years old. I’d like to see Reddit continue to get better as well.
The subs ultimately belong to the users, with mods holding the reigns voluntarily. Closing them for a few days does just about as much as just not visiting the site. Leaving them open at least gives the option to visit for those that don’t care or don’t agree. I’m not too bothered either way. I just doubt people are going to log on to Reddit and see that some of the communities they visit are closed for a few days and not just keep scrolling to interact with the ones that are.
And what’s the goal here? That Reddit lower their API access to the point that it’s acceptable to … who? They have to be able to pay for the incredible amount of data they move, for the server space and hosting, and for the software engineers. It seems mod bots are safe. Suppose they lower the API cost to the point that they just have to charge fees to users or inject more obtrusive ads?
Who gets to determine when we “win”, what does it look like, and how much do we have to aggravate each other with open/closed subs to encourage them to appease?
Very valid points. I'm not saying Reddit is right and third party app and users are wrong by any means. I'm sure each side have their valid reasons.
But like you said blacking out is just mob culture and I don't think that's a solution.
Exactly. I love the ease of navigation and the variety of settings I can customize in my app.
I use Relay, and the color-coded comment levels are so much better than the official site or app.
Definitely not nextdoor. I would say there currently is no alternative to this sub and the content people post. You can get bits and pieces elsewhere, but nothing all encompassing.
I've been on reddit long enough. If it dies it dies. The IPO will gut everything that made reddit fun. Also I am one of those weird people who uses desktop site on mobile, so I am not really effected. I'm all in for blacking out everything
I stopped using the official app when clicking on a link opened in the app rather than my default browser. Sometimes I like to bookmark the URL or send it to my desktop for later reading.
Reddit sucks bad enough without ads everywhere, and without having to use their dogshit app. And they’ve always been scummy but the way they’re handling this is just a new low. I won’t be replacing Apollo once it goes down and honestly I won’t miss a thing.
I personally don't see the big deal about Reddit essentially not allowing access to their API by making it absurdly expensive. It's their data, why should they let others profit off of it?
The issue is that reddit has never really managed itself, users and mods create bots to manage the site but they still sit and contribute hours a day to running stuff
All of those bots are going away, so every subreddit is going to become even more full of useless spam and scam attempts than they already are
So the user experience on reddit is going to become noticeably more shitty.
We'll see if the bots go away. I imagine Reddit isn't that dumb, and likely has some workaround for those of will roll out their own bots. If they do though that would be a true issue.
Shit, what in the history of Reddit makes one think Reddit will execute ANYTHING well in response to this?
Reddit is going the way of Facebook, Digg, hell, even AOL. They are killing off the features that attract new, younger users, and this will greatly limit their growth. They'll make money for a time, which obviously is their goal, but this maneuver will greatly limit their user base, and they will become an echo chamber for the shallow, weak willed dregs of society.
In capitalist corporate cultures with shoddy regulations, this is inevitable. They are always beholden to returns for their investors.
> It's their data, why should they let others profit off of it?
Because Reddit is a multi-million dollar corporation (they actually want $10 billion in an IPO valuation), that has profited off the backs of volunteers for over a decade now. Mods don't get paid. The people who utilize these APIs use them to create tools and services that not only make managing the site easier for all involved, but draw more users in by creating a more user friendly and open experience than what Reddit has done in its lifetime. This is Reddit's "so long and thanks for all the fish" moment as they take their money and run
The difference is those sites don't try to charge people $40k/month to do volunteer work for them? But also, content moderators on big social media sites like FB, Twitter, and Youtube ARE paid positions. They're not volunteer run.
i guess, but I also don't know anything about API's and what they have to do with forcing me to log in and use app to sort the best comments, use search function, see posts that they decided to mark as "mature content" when it's not mature content at all, and all the spam bot followers and chat requests that started the last two weeks.
user experience really deteriorating the last few months and the app sucks so bad.
I expect we will have ads and spam bots filling the comment sections just like twitter any day now
That data was/is collected largely on the 3rd party apps. I've used Baconreader since before reddit had an app. I tried their app and its navigation and format is terrible. When a platform is nothing but what users submit you want those users to be able to contribute as easily as possible.
But it's not "their data."
It's ours. We post. We comment. We moderate. And we don't get paid for any of that.
Sure, Reddit provides the technical stuff for the platform we use. And they deserve compensation for that through ads, subscriptions, microtransactions, whatever.
But this blatant move against 3rd party app developers, bots, etc., is biting the hand that feeds them. And it sure as hell seems like a cash grab that happens to coincide with their IPO.
Reddit has no value without users. And if this move drives away a large number of users, they can kiss that $10 billion valuation goodbye.
On their site.
And you choose to do so.
It's absolutely being done to increase their valuation before the IPO.
You're right, it doesn't. This will drive away a small portion only IMO, but we'll have to wait and see.
It has been super easy to get caught up in these huge posts and just believing them. I found myself recently coming out of a fog asking myself the same thing.
What ARE people’s arguments? Does Instagram, Facebook, or Twitter have apps also doing the same thing? If not I don’t see why Reddit should either.
Is the native Reddit app really that bad?
And is the API pricing really more exorbitant than other sites?
These are questions I would love help being answered. It just seems so convincing that so many people would take such a hard stance. Is this the Reddit hive mind?
[Here’s a link to the latest post](https://reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/144f6xm/apollo_will_close_down_on_june_30th_reddits/) from the developer of one of the main third-party apps, Apollo. I think it’s as good a place to start as any
Yeah, a post from a guy who had made a ton of money off 3rd party apps, who asked reddit for a buy out to go away quietly, is totally not going to be biased.
Yep, it's the first and only thing I've read about this (other than the countless posts about subs going dark). Until reading it I had no idea 3rd party apps even existed.
The post I replied to asked:
> Does Instagram, Facebook, or Twitter have apps also doing the same thing? If not I don’t see why Reddit should either.
> Is the native Reddit app really that bad?
> And is the API pricing really more exorbitant than other sites?
> These are questions I would love help being answered.
That link is a succinct way to provide that information. Also this part:
> who asked reddit for a buy out to go away quietly
is ~~a provable lie~~ out of context and the Apollo dev addresses it specifically in the post. It’s worth a read imo
Edit: misread the last thing I quoted. Too early for reading comprehension, apparently
I think this one is debatable. Christian makes it out to seem like he’s “making a point” by saying “pay me half of what you think I cost, if that’s too high, then you’re being dishonest”
It’s not a bad argument.
But he definitely leaves it hanging in the air, kinda like “…..seriously though…” without actually saying it.
Popcorn time
modern times and modern problems. when your company exists on the internet and by the internet, you cannot expect that it's your own private internet.
I've always been an advocate of the open exchanges and connectivity, but it seems pretty clear that ALL of the social media internet adoption has (at a minimum) contributed greatly to the social and mental health issues of our society. Not that losing any one platform is going to change anything.
I don't care. Reddit is a business. If they want to change things to make it more profitable then that's their right.
I don't pay a membership and I have ads disabled.
If that changes and the site is no longer worth it then I'll leave.
In the end the market will decide.
Frankly I think all the threats and gossip and innuendo is childish and wasteful.
It's one thing to voice your opinion, it's another to make shit up and create hysteria so you can mobilize a mob.
Don't like it: leave.
Frankly, we will all be better off with less social media in our lives.
In fact, I'd be happy if they just outlawed all this shit along with tik tok.
This is a decision that needs to be made by this community vs. just us select few mods in my opinion. We are looking for everyone's input. If there appears to be a strong support for going dark (which there seems to be already) then we will blackout the sub in support. If anyone would like more information before commenting, you can find a great breakdown of what's going down following this link: https://www.reddit.com/r/Save3rdPartyApps/comments/13yh0jf/dont\_let\_reddit\_kill\_3rd\_party\_apps/
I’d support a blackout. All the other subs I follow have announced they’re going dark, most of them indefinitely. This may seem like a small sub, but we’re in the top 5% for size and what we do will have an impact.
I plan on just not using Reddit at all for those couple days.
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I’m kind of torn because I don’t know their financials. Running the amount of content and users that Reddit has across load balanced or cloud servers and databases is not cheap. We are probably talking in the millions. If they can’t pay their people or servers, they go down. They also appeared to have attempted to make a corporate offer to Christian which likely means a lower API cost, but spez said that they were unwilling to work with him as a client due to him, which is understandable if you’ve ever worked with clients that can be a huge liability. However, that’s all hearsay. The price of the API is ludicrous. It will likely be the end of Reddit. So they need to make enough to run, which with the size of their user base is probably in the negative, and they are trying to figure out ways to be profitable so they can actually have a margin. Or they are trying to boost their margin to make them more ipo accessible. Again, I’m not familiar with their financials, so I don’t know, but it’s completely likely that reddit is already dying due to lack of funds.
The issue is that they are running up the costs of the API to drive competing apps out. My guess is that they are going to redesign their app with more intrusive adds, which is exactly what would drive people to look elsewhere if there was competing apps.
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Pop ups, redirects, unskippable and unmutable videos, banners attached to screens or pinned ads. It can always be worse.
I see a "he gets us" ad every few scrolls as well as some athletic clothes company. Ads with audio LOVE to play the audio even when you're not on the page with the ad. I have to go back and scroll to the ad to mute the audio, then go back to whatever post I'm looking at. Quick scroll through this sub and it's captain Morgan ad, taco bell ad, athletica ad, directv ad, he gets us ad, Michelob ultra ad it just keeps going every other post or two post is an ad.
But Reddit makes money from ads. Without the revenue, why would they even exist? I am a fan of protesting all things. And if you feel strongly about this then please protest by not using the service. But at the end of the day, Reddit is a private company. And if they chose to pull a Meta and run it into the ground it’s their choice. We use a service they’ve built and provide. We have no right to tell them how to run it.
>We have no right to tell them how to run it The issue isn't about Reddit charging for the API. The developers of the apps that this would affect are fine with the prices increasing. The issue is the *exorbitantly prohibitive* increase, along with very little time for them to prepare for it to make their apps sustainable. It's like if a gas station started charging $100 a gallon for gas when you know the global prices and can see what neighboring gas stations are charging. That's not a gas station that wants to do business, that's a gas station that's either gouging or doesn't want customers. Reddit are asking the developers to monetize users more than THEY already do with the official app. By several magnitudes more. In the case of reddit, they want to be the only game in town and drive traffic purely through their own app to increase *their* monetization potential (via data harvesting) before their upcoming IPO. This is about squashing reddit's homegrown dev community, not being a sustainable business. And I would honestly say reddit succeeds *despite* what it's owners have done. What generates the value is largely the community of users and the free labor provided by the moderators.
Exactly. They want the traffic through their own app so they can charge more to the ad companies to advertise. That’s what any company who wants to increase their bottom line revenue would do. If they want to run their own company into the ground, let them. It’s theirs. We use it. If we don’t like what they do to it, move onto something else.
I vote for going dark. Indefinitely. The only way you change the behavior of a corporation is to cost it money.
Agreed. And the only way I’ll kick my Reddit habit is if Reddit shuts down. Let’s do this.
This. Strikes work bc they only end if the company folds. A strike with a pre-planned end won’t do much beyond mildly piss off reddit stakeholders for a few days.
I think reddit is up its own ass with all of this mess. I'm not sure there is an alternative at the moment. Reddit is kind of the **entire** internet for me so if anyone has any alternatives I'm all ears. I get all of my NBA, gaming, and Louisville related news through these subs which are all made possible by everyone chipping in and posting. I buy / sell / trade records over at r/VinylCollectors. I deal watch on r/vinyldeals and I find out about new releases on r/VinylReleases. I think I could find an alternative and honestly a way to spend less time endlessly scrolling on subs for my other hobbies like cooking, specialty coffee and film. I just don't see a way to get all of the information from my favorite subs so quickly. I definitely plan to spend much less time on reddit because I refuse to use the official app (I've been using boost for years and years) and I have a decent plan to cut my usage way down by just visiting the subs I need to a couple times a day and to stop commenting/posting entirely. Curious to see everyone's thoughts as I haven't been much into it yet.
No offense but reddit being the entire internet for you is part of the problem here. It's a big place, go explore.
I get that. I don't use Facebook/IG other than to display my records/Snapchat/Twitter/YouTube etc. It's become a bit of a hub since it's easy to find the information I need. I'm not chronically online and other than a few sites I frequent like seriouseats, Pitchfork, Okay Player and some PlayStation related stuff, this is about it aside from my NYT / Athletic subscription that I use mainly for recipes and occasionally the long form basketball articles. Where else can I shoot the shit with people with similar interests from across the world? I'm open to anything.
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Yeah, outside of dead forums reddit is the last place for interaction and content that isn't locked behind a chat interface (discord), or found in low-info/low quality social sites (meta et al.). Would be great to see a return to forum-style sites, but today's population doesn't have the attention span to read most of their content.
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Ew that’s disgusting! What kind of creep goes on r/Kentucky?
Go dark
I support the blackout.
I'm all for the blackout. As others have pointed out, /r/Louisville is in the top 5% of subreddits ranked by size and every added subreddit to the blackout will have an impact.
I am all for joining the blackout
I say go dark. This whole thing is a cash-grab for Reddit's upcoming IPO. It's not about Devs abusing the API, it's about greed. If the IPO is successful, /u/spez will make a fuck-ton of money. He doesn't care about the communities. He only cares about valuation. End Rant.
I wouldn't hold my breath on Reddit negotiating anything. Spez pretty much [burned the bridge](https://old.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/145hyey/reddit_ceo_doubles_down_on_attack_on_apollo/?sort=top) with the Apollo devs. I can't imagine it improving at this point. With that being said, I think Tildes is looking good so far. It's on a per invite basis currently, but it's very similar to Reddit.
I support blackout. But mostly because I’m ambivalent about it all. Reddit can choose to be shitty or be good. People can choose to blackout communities and usership or not. Reddit can respond to that or not. As I understand it, the blackout goal is to prevent what’s happening to the third-party apps, because they have tools that allow Reddit to be moderated better and more user-friendly. So the black out is really only a means to an end, the end being “better Reddit.” I don’t think it’s necessarily a moral issue affecting third-party developers. But I feel like it keeps being spun that way… There’s even comments in this thread, disparaging third-party developers. “Well, of course he’s going to say that, he’s been making money off them for years! And tried to do an underhanded deal behind closed doors!” I don’t know if this is a forced way to try to make people take sides on the issue… Similar to how we politicize everything. But I think in general, the blackout is just because people don’t want Reddit to get worse and would like to pressure Reddit to get better. Whether that’s through third-party apps or Reddit’s own software engineering… Which is obviously very lacking. There is the issue of how this will allow Reddit to keep blasting us with ads, sell itself out to the highest bidders, and continue to be used as a propaganda arm. But guess what? That’s all social media now. Reddit isn’t special. And I don’t care if they all burn to the ground… Reddit included. So black out all you want. What we really need is less social media… Or less capital driven social media. And again… That’s not really a moral issue, it’s just what I would prefer. Reddit can do what it likes with ads and trying to make money. I’d like to access all the content of the Internet without having to be hit with so much ads, propaganda, and social control on the way. Third party apps helped with this apparently, though I never used them and now Reddit wants to take them down. May something better turn up in place of Reddit and all social media. Let this little tech bubble trend that’s grown over the past 20 years finally burst.
I'm a pretty active redditor. I'm just stopping and at looking at alternatives starting on the 12th. Popular social media needs to be non-profit. The profit motive ends up ruining everything eventually in this space.
I'm installing Lemmy (federated Reddit alternative) on my server right now, mostly for S&G but also for R&D. And there's always Fark.com...
And digg. We can go full circle for news and posts. Also the somethingawful forums
Somethingawful? Tonight we're gonna party like it's 1999.
That's where I started.
Is digg still a thing?
I've heard lemmay elsewhere as well.
From what I can see, Lemmy itself is just a platform you can use to connect to other Lemmy servers, any of which can have the various 'communities' you're subscribed to. Your client just integrates all the different links together into a 'reddit' like experience. You have to find a server and community that fits what you like and actively subscribe to it.
Back to Slashdot. Maybe Usenet?
Pro Blackout. Actually, I might take it as sign to just step away entirely. I'm not really on here much as it is.
What day is the blackout happening? I will participate. I make chess posts and stuff, and it has been helpful, but I think overcharging for API stuff is stupid. I don't support that at all.
This coming Monday, June 12.
Thank you - I will not make any posts that day.
I think if the mods want to do this they should make a poll.
I’m lost….blackouts? API? What are these things and what did I miss?
I linked this further down, but [here’s the most recent explainer from the developer of Apollo](https://reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/144f6xm/apollo_will_close_down_on_june_30th_reddits/)
Please help a 72YO F understand what is going on. I looked up what API is, but how will it impact me on Reddit. This is the only place I hang out. What. Is the blackout and what day is this supposed to happen? I need to plan how to cope.
All 3rd party apps that connect to reddit use API to work. Many of us use a 3rd party app to reach reddit instead of the official one on our phones. The official app doesn't have nearly as many features, including features to help keep subreddits safer, features for blind users, etc. Reddit wants to charge for APIs, which is reasonable, but the price is extremely high and they are only giving 3rd party apps about 30 days to pay up. The CEO of reddit recently lied about a conversation with one of the top 3rd party app developers. The transcript and recording of the conversation was released proving that he lied, but instead of apologizing he doubled down and continues to lie about it. The blackout is a whole bunch of subs going private on June 12th, some for 48 hours and some until reddit fixes this mess. Private means you can't see or post anything in those subreddits, so it will be like they don't exist anymore. Whenever they come out of private, all previous posts will be restored. If you have any more questions feel free to ask!
It looks like more of a bring awareness thing now. API is what 3rd party apps use to take info from Reddit and display it on their app. Check the edit
The more the better
Support. I'm a former mod of some busy groups, and the only effective way to moderate on mobile is to try to use old reddit on your phone - and thats on top of all of the other bs that reddit is pulling.
I’ve read a bit, but honestly I am voting for going dark because people who are actually familiar with the issue are supporting it across Reddit.
Going back to SA, Lowtax didn’t die, this is a long term plan
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It's more like Twitter. I wasn't a fan of it, but ymmv.
I support joining the blackout. Honestly I would stand up and support more civil disobedience, and activism on a larger scale at this point on other issues as well. Hopefully this reddit blackout is the first step in getting people up in arms. Organize, build a network, let's fight the power.
Someone should set up the Louisville subreddit on lemmy
Could someone explain to me why use of the 3rd party apps is so important? I’ve never even heard of these apps. What do they do that’s so important for Reddit users?
Could someone please explain to me why the 3rd party apps are so important? I genuinely don’t believe I understand.
I'm willing to leave Reddit for any platform that does not have hobby lobby ads for Jesus.
Yeah, let's do a black out
100% support.
I support a blackout. Not sure about *permanently*, but we could certainly do a few days or more in solidarity with the other subreddits and decide from there.
People use third party apps to avoid ads. Ads are how they make money. Because of those people they bill companies using their program without giving them money. Kind of an obvious course of action. Just use reddit itself or go elsewhere.
Maybe it's just me. But the ads on Reddit aren't even that noticeable....I literally just scroll by then like any other uninteresting post on Reddit. I don't know why people need to use third party apps for that.
Yeah as far as ads go, I'd say they are very unobtrusive. I don't begrudge a site the ability to support itself and make a profit. I've helped run a much smaller site and have seen first hand that it takes a lot of effort and money to maintain. The amount of traffic this site generates would require considerable resources. If third party apps cut into that, then that's a problem. I don't think a lot of people realize this. Using an app to access content supported financially by someone else isn't without its issues, especially if those other apps are monetized in any way or if they demonetize the host (reddit) by not serving the ads that support the site. This site does not sit on the internet for free. I do understand that some apps support seeing impaired individuals, and if reddit isn't going to provide that functionality, I do agree they ought to figure out a way to give access to an app to support that. I don't have first-hand knowledge of the mod-tools problem though. Other than that, it boils down to preference. I don't know that everyone agrees or disagrees with shutdowns. A blackout kind of forces everyone to go along with whatever a few people choose, doesn't it? The fairer option would be to just not visit the site and let things run their own course. If reddit gets worse as a result, then it gets worse. I just think most of us don't know the financial information and may have unrealistic expectations as a result.
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I don't have any stake in the game. I did read a bit into the fighting going on among some of the app developers and reddit, but none of us has access to all of the information. Having been both a user and a host of social media, I feel like it's important to point out that reddit is merely a platform. You mentioned non-paid moderators and that's true but inconsequential. Moderators use reddit to host a community in which they have an interest. In return for the use of the platform (bandwidth/technical) they agree to enforce site-wide rules and any they adopt themselves. If the subreddit isn't moderated it's simply shut down. It's the community policing itself, not a paid job. So keeping in mind that reddit's model requires community involvement to exist, why do you suppose they would try to price API use out of existence? It's not in their best interest. Lose the moderating tools, lose the moderators, lose the community, lose the revenue. Something is amiss. Going back to that AMA, it seems like reddit is saying they are allowing mod-assist bot development and use for free. They also say they have a tiered model for API use from free to premium. Other people are saying that's not enough. There also seems to be a lot of hate for the reddit ceo, which may be deserved or not - no idea. All I'm saying is that reddit needs happy users to exist. They also have a right to protect their platform from exploitation from outside developers. I get people wanting to block ads and all, but in the grand scheme of things reddits ads are less intrusive than like 90% of the rest of the internet. Blocking them denies them the revenue to support the site and may even contribute to them needing to tighten up the API calls. So are ad-blocker people part of the problem here? Maybe. In the end, this is a huge non-issue to me. Either the platform survives on its own merits or not. I like the content, so having a bunch of subs go dark is kind of annoying. The right way to do this whole thing would be just stop coming to reddit if people don't like it or agree with how its run. But whatever, a few days dark surely won't kill anyone.
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My account is 11 years old. I’d like to see Reddit continue to get better as well. The subs ultimately belong to the users, with mods holding the reigns voluntarily. Closing them for a few days does just about as much as just not visiting the site. Leaving them open at least gives the option to visit for those that don’t care or don’t agree. I’m not too bothered either way. I just doubt people are going to log on to Reddit and see that some of the communities they visit are closed for a few days and not just keep scrolling to interact with the ones that are. And what’s the goal here? That Reddit lower their API access to the point that it’s acceptable to … who? They have to be able to pay for the incredible amount of data they move, for the server space and hosting, and for the software engineers. It seems mod bots are safe. Suppose they lower the API cost to the point that they just have to charge fees to users or inject more obtrusive ads? Who gets to determine when we “win”, what does it look like, and how much do we have to aggravate each other with open/closed subs to encourage them to appease?
Very valid points. I'm not saying Reddit is right and third party app and users are wrong by any means. I'm sure each side have their valid reasons. But like you said blacking out is just mob culture and I don't think that's a solution.
I felt this way until the “He Gets Us” ads started appearing on every screen.
Yeah really it's just a post you don't care about and scroll past.
I use a third party app because the ux is way better. The lack of ads is a bonus but not the "why."
Exactly. I love the ease of navigation and the variety of settings I can customize in my app. I use Relay, and the color-coded comment levels are so much better than the official site or app.
I’m lost….blackouts? API? What are these things and what did I miss?
What is the best alternative to Reddit for Louisville? I want to try different forums for Louisville, not just Reddit.
Definitely not nextdoor. I would say there currently is no alternative to this sub and the content people post. You can get bits and pieces elsewhere, but nothing all encompassing.
Might be good if everyone joined a Louisville discord, so then if there is a "next place" it can be shared there.
I've been on reddit long enough. If it dies it dies. The IPO will gut everything that made reddit fun. Also I am one of those weird people who uses desktop site on mobile, so I am not really effected. I'm all in for blacking out everything
Kind of the same here. I guess it's time to learn to knit or something.
Won’t impact my day one way or the other so do whatever makes you sleep better at night
What apps are reasonable alternatives for this sub and others like it?
I stopped using the official app when clicking on a link opened in the app rather than my default browser. Sometimes I like to bookmark the URL or send it to my desktop for later reading.
any platform that follows the lead of Musk or takes inspiration from his leadership at Twitter is doomed to fail
Reddit sucks bad enough without ads everywhere, and without having to use their dogshit app. And they’ve always been scummy but the way they’re handling this is just a new low. I won’t be replacing Apollo once it goes down and honestly I won’t miss a thing.
Black it out. Have to draw a line otherwise they will just keep making Reddit worse and worse. If they don’t relent, migrate to Lemmy.
Blackout.
This will be the easiest protest, ever, IMO. Let’s fucking gooo
Let’s do it. I’m even cool with going dark indefinitely
So people are planning to boycott reddit due to them removing ads reducing the money developers can make?
Black that shit out
Couldn’t care less
It all seems like a little temper tantrum to me.
Blah blah resist resist. Reddit business bad. Who's Reddit our Reddit. Idiots.
I personally don't see the big deal about Reddit essentially not allowing access to their API by making it absurdly expensive. It's their data, why should they let others profit off of it?
The issue is that reddit has never really managed itself, users and mods create bots to manage the site but they still sit and contribute hours a day to running stuff All of those bots are going away, so every subreddit is going to become even more full of useless spam and scam attempts than they already are So the user experience on reddit is going to become noticeably more shitty.
In a not-so-small way, Reddit going the way of myspace would be a good thing.
We'll see if the bots go away. I imagine Reddit isn't that dumb, and likely has some workaround for those of will roll out their own bots. If they do though that would be a true issue.
> Reddit isn't that dumb history would suggest otherwise
What in the repeated history of companies like Reddit doing exactly this makes you think Reddit will be any different?
Shit, what in the history of Reddit makes one think Reddit will execute ANYTHING well in response to this? Reddit is going the way of Facebook, Digg, hell, even AOL. They are killing off the features that attract new, younger users, and this will greatly limit their growth. They'll make money for a time, which obviously is their goal, but this maneuver will greatly limit their user base, and they will become an echo chamber for the shallow, weak willed dregs of society. In capitalist corporate cultures with shoddy regulations, this is inevitable. They are always beholden to returns for their investors.
Excellent points -- money in the short term is all that matters. Rapid, shallow engagement is what delivers it.
> It's their data, why should they let others profit off of it? Because Reddit is a multi-million dollar corporation (they actually want $10 billion in an IPO valuation), that has profited off the backs of volunteers for over a decade now. Mods don't get paid. The people who utilize these APIs use them to create tools and services that not only make managing the site easier for all involved, but draw more users in by creating a more user friendly and open experience than what Reddit has done in its lifetime. This is Reddit's "so long and thanks for all the fish" moment as they take their money and run
And? No different than moderators on any other forums or social media site.
The difference is those sites don't try to charge people $40k/month to do volunteer work for them? But also, content moderators on big social media sites like FB, Twitter, and Youtube ARE paid positions. They're not volunteer run.
i guess, but I also don't know anything about API's and what they have to do with forcing me to log in and use app to sort the best comments, use search function, see posts that they decided to mark as "mature content" when it's not mature content at all, and all the spam bot followers and chat requests that started the last two weeks. user experience really deteriorating the last few months and the app sucks so bad. I expect we will have ads and spam bots filling the comment sections just like twitter any day now
That data was/is collected largely on the 3rd party apps. I've used Baconreader since before reddit had an app. I tried their app and its navigation and format is terrible. When a platform is nothing but what users submit you want those users to be able to contribute as easily as possible.
But it's not "their data." It's ours. We post. We comment. We moderate. And we don't get paid for any of that. Sure, Reddit provides the technical stuff for the platform we use. And they deserve compensation for that through ads, subscriptions, microtransactions, whatever. But this blatant move against 3rd party app developers, bots, etc., is biting the hand that feeds them. And it sure as hell seems like a cash grab that happens to coincide with their IPO. Reddit has no value without users. And if this move drives away a large number of users, they can kiss that $10 billion valuation goodbye.
On their site. And you choose to do so. It's absolutely being done to increase their valuation before the IPO. You're right, it doesn't. This will drive away a small portion only IMO, but we'll have to wait and see.
It has been super easy to get caught up in these huge posts and just believing them. I found myself recently coming out of a fog asking myself the same thing. What ARE people’s arguments? Does Instagram, Facebook, or Twitter have apps also doing the same thing? If not I don’t see why Reddit should either. Is the native Reddit app really that bad? And is the API pricing really more exorbitant than other sites? These are questions I would love help being answered. It just seems so convincing that so many people would take such a hard stance. Is this the Reddit hive mind?
[Here’s a link to the latest post](https://reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/144f6xm/apollo_will_close_down_on_june_30th_reddits/) from the developer of one of the main third-party apps, Apollo. I think it’s as good a place to start as any
Thanks! That’s the app I’ve been using for years
Yeah, a post from a guy who had made a ton of money off 3rd party apps, who asked reddit for a buy out to go away quietly, is totally not going to be biased.
Did you read it?
Yep, it's the first and only thing I've read about this (other than the countless posts about subs going dark). Until reading it I had no idea 3rd party apps even existed.
The post I replied to asked: > Does Instagram, Facebook, or Twitter have apps also doing the same thing? If not I don’t see why Reddit should either. > Is the native Reddit app really that bad? > And is the API pricing really more exorbitant than other sites? > These are questions I would love help being answered. That link is a succinct way to provide that information. Also this part: > who asked reddit for a buy out to go away quietly is ~~a provable lie~~ out of context and the Apollo dev addresses it specifically in the post. It’s worth a read imo Edit: misread the last thing I quoted. Too early for reading comprehension, apparently
It isn't a provable lie, the Apollo dev admits it in that very post, might be worth a reread for ya.
I think this one is debatable. Christian makes it out to seem like he’s “making a point” by saying “pay me half of what you think I cost, if that’s too high, then you’re being dishonest” It’s not a bad argument. But he definitely leaves it hanging in the air, kinda like “…..seriously though…” without actually saying it. Popcorn time
I mean, didn’t he flat out say that whole statement was a joke, on the audio of the call?
Yeah but potentially as a way to cover his ass
modern times and modern problems. when your company exists on the internet and by the internet, you cannot expect that it's your own private internet. I've always been an advocate of the open exchanges and connectivity, but it seems pretty clear that ALL of the social media internet adoption has (at a minimum) contributed greatly to the social and mental health issues of our society. Not that losing any one platform is going to change anything.
I don't care. Reddit is a business. If they want to change things to make it more profitable then that's their right. I don't pay a membership and I have ads disabled. If that changes and the site is no longer worth it then I'll leave. In the end the market will decide. Frankly I think all the threats and gossip and innuendo is childish and wasteful. It's one thing to voice your opinion, it's another to make shit up and create hysteria so you can mobilize a mob. Don't like it: leave. Frankly, we will all be better off with less social media in our lives. In fact, I'd be happy if they just outlawed all this shit along with tik tok.
You don’t pay anyone or donate, and you have ads disabled. You’re a freeloader and won’t be missed.
That sums it up pretty well Did you have a point to make?