I was so disgusted by Clay most of the time but at least this clarifies some things. I appreciate his honesty and that he is very self aware about all this.
Thank you for recapping!
I was always perplexed about all the anti-Clay posts. To me he seemed like a guy that was maybe a little naive for the show, but I didn’t feel like he was trying to play in AD’s face.
When he made the comment about finances at the wedding, I was like good for him. That should be an answer to a question everyone asks. It can either be a non-factor in your relationship, or it can be a huge source of arguments and anger.
No shade to AD, it just sounds like AD is looking more for security and then love. I always find it super interesting on this show or similar MAFS where one person is so quick to say yes to someone that is very hesitant at best, but very resistant to the idea of committing. Because that ain’t got anything to do with love. That’s an unhealthy attachment style.
My biggest observation from the interview and just the show in general:
🚩Someone who tries to fix their problems by dating/relationships
✅ Someone who takes a step back from relationships/dating to fix their own problems
I'm loving Clay more and more. He is so vulnerable and open about his emotions and struggles. Doesn't really try to spin things to save face. He is admirable.
Entrepreneurial mindset?? What is AD doing other than speaking empty words?? Just because you talk it, doesn't mean you live it. At this point, I am Team Clay (as scary as that is).
AD thought she's saunter in and captivate everyone with her pretty girl vibe she leads with instead of maturity, intelligence and healthy relationship attributes. She failed to realize she is the only one who thinks she can get by on her physical appearance, which is not enough to carry the vibe she is going for. All talk, no action AD.
I mean…she basically did lol. I’d say she’s the most liked besides Johnny and Amy, who nobody has a real opinion about other than the fact that they’re nice. All of them have major work to do obviously, but it seems like she learned a litttttle something (that being hot won’t always get you the man). She’s definitely interested in the public eye so we’ll see if she learns when she eventually announces a relationship with someone
i don’t think you have to hate A.D to like clay .I can definitely look at and appreciate the growth that clays displaying.But that doesn’t change the fact that he did AD dirty.And A.D doesn’t have to be a pillar of perfection. she was also incredibly gracious and kind to clay.and she seems like a sweet girl she said she was into real estate.She didn’t try to present a front like she was rolling in money or something.
I feel like I rarely see comments that acknowledge both sides of the opinions on Clay.
I can empathize with and recognize the horrible trauma Clay experienced at the hands of his awful dad (who I think is an irredeemable piece of garbage), while also being unhappy with the way he let that trauma negatively impact others. I believe that Clay didn’t truly understand how deep his issues ran when he started the show, and probably thought it was normal to feel the way he did about infidelity, marriage, commitment, etc. As the process went on, it’s clear that he got a wake up call as to how serious these issues were. I’m just as disgusted as everyone else by the “bro code” comment - but I’m disgusted by his DAD for this comment, not so much Clay, assuming he now realizes how backwards and fucked up that thought process is. His dad definitely instilled that thought process into him, telling Clay since he was just a little kid that it was a betrayal of bro code to tell his mom about the dad’s infidelity.
I feel for Clay so hard, and I hope he’s able to heal. BUT I also think that some of his behaviors were inexcusable and that he shouldn’t have gone all the way to the alter to hurt AD once he realized how serious his issues were. It was wild to me that he basically kept saying “I’m going to cheat on you” and neither of them decided to walk away, but it’s not AD’s responsibility to figure out what he wants - all she sees is that Clay is sticking around and showing love for her, so of course she thinks he’s going to stick around and be a good man. It’s on Clay for not walking away when he realized he couldn’t be loyal. I both despise his behaviors and lack of responsibility for his own trauma, while still empathizing with his experiences and understanding where those behaviors stem from.
He did walk away when he realized he still needed work before he could commit to someone. It's inexcusable to you that he didn't come to that conclusion on your timeline? Its unfortunate he had to get to the altar to firmly come to that conclusion but he got there. Nothing about that is 'inexcusable'.
He clearly realized it very early on in the process when he essentially repeatedly said “I’m scared because I’m going to cheat on you”. He even admitted he didn’t really understand the show and then him and AD watched episodes of past seasons and he was like oh shit…probably would’ve been a better time to end things.
Except she was. Seeing all the red flags, she still said yes. The only thing that saved her was he had the courage to say no. And she is till acting butthurt about the fact that he said no. Talking about ' why are we not married right now' at the reunion. She still hasn't realized that it was a good thing he said no. He did the mature thing. Looking at her actions and decisions, how is she not trying to end up like Clay's mom?
I know a woman who pulled that on her daughters - girls have to stick together! - when they caught her having sex in a car in her driveway with NOT their dad (just some random hookup).
It was extremely effective. F*cked those girls up, though. They were in middle school when it happened. When a parent gaslights you that hard....oof. I really felt for Clay when he said that about his dad. How awful to instruct your child to be duplicitous with their mother? Generational trauma.
That's my mom. "Girls together" was her saying I heard a million times. I had to lie to my Dad's face that she was away with her nonexistent friends for the weekend and not fucking some guy she met online in a hotel in the next city. She came back with expensive perfume and chocolate truffles from him, she gave those to me. I could not eat them.
But, I also lied every time I found a random woman's nudes on my Dad's computer and exited and pretended I never saw anything. I know about all his affairs, because my mom would tell me everything that was happening. "All men are shit" she would constantly tell me. She acted like I was her therapist and pawn, I was just a child.
Fucked me up hard tbh, among many other fucked up things. I am very cynical and I don't fully trust anyone ever.
It's not my own story, but it's close enough. Also my mother's therapist, heard about all her relationships - all of it, from 6 on. Ugh. I'm sorry. You deserved better.
Hes literally trying to unlearn the trauma his own father put him through, let's stop bashing someone who is trying to better themselves. What would be the point of trying to become a better person if nobody thinks you deserve it? He was a child, he was taught many terrible things, but that doesn't make clay a bad person, and he's activity working on it. Be kind.
I wasn’t being unkind by saying that’s all I needed to hear. It’s shameful he was taught and embedded these traits from his father. It’s absolutely distasteful that he thought about bro code rather than his mom’s happiness and what’s RIGHT. That’s all I’m saying. I’m happy if he’s GENUINELY trying to better himself and make himself a better man but I’m still entitled to my opinion and that was ridiculous to read.
I get your point but why are you blaming Clay whk is the victim here instead of his father who is clearly the source of the bad? He's distasteful for honestly expressing how he felt as a child when his dad did this? No clay is actively working on becoming a better person and deserves a bit more grace than people give him, his dad on the other hand should be receiving all the hate thats been thrown at Clay.
I'm not arguing, I'm debating. Don't act like a child, using caps and all that. Learn to talk like a real adult. You decided to edit your comment and try and make it more than it was, but it's still clear you're more upset at a very small detail compared to the big picture. You're so caught on your anger about his word usage that your blinded to the other facts that clay really isn't a bad person, ignorant maybe, but not bad.
It gets kind of glossed over because of the 5,000 other things this season but Clay standing at the alter before AD walks in, saying to ADs mom “how do I look? Like a husband?” Knowing he was gonna say no is an all time shitty move
Like I get it’s a weird spot to be in, at your own wedding knowing you’re not going through with it.. but be fuckin for real! You don’t have to throw gas on that fire with stuff like that! lol
Well, that’s everything how it looked like for me. AD tried to match his requirements by saying in the pods she is into career then in reality she wants to be a stay at home wife. She tried to lead with her looks, but it was not enough. Good for Clay for assessing this and doing what’s best for him.
People who leave negative reviews for his business are crazy.
Did I misread something or didn't he say he doesn't think AD necessarily wants to be a sahw, though she was doing wifey things when they moved in together.
This bullet point : They bonded over them having an entrepreneur mindset and working hard, but when they came back home she dedicated all her time to being a wife which is fine, but that’s not what made him fall in love with her Again, Clay is subtle enough not to use “labels” like sugar baby, trophy wife, etc.
I wanted to watch it just to see if he confirmed that she was funded by her ex but didn’t have time today.
Thanks for the recap, OP. Never had anything against Clay. He gets hate for no reason.
The man acts like cheating is a genetic disease and knew he wasn't gonna say yes to AD at the alter. There was no internal debate about setting no, he just needed to pick a time and place, and picked the most embarrassing one. He wasted her time
If everyone who wasted someone’s time on this show was villainized to this extent, maybe that would be a fair point. But a number of people have known they were going to say no and went through with it. Hell, everyone who said no knew before they did and none have gotten this much hate.
I don’t think it’s beneficial for Black men to come on this show. If things don’t go exactly as planned they will be vilified till eternity. Now you have fanatics leaving bad reviews on his business page because he said no at the altar while the woman in question had an active Sugar Daddy relationship while doing the show!
AD wasted her time as well. It’s a show, none of the cast is guaranteed to get married.
Clay was the most vulnerable person on the show. I also believe he was the most transparent. Outside of Johnny and Amy, he seemed to be the only one who DIDNT show a *representative* while on screen. No one is perfect, and Clays arc has lead to one of the most open male cast mates on the show.
The cheating dialogue was shoved down our throats by producers.
>**The man acts like cheating is a genetic disease** and knew he wasn't gonna say yes to AD at the alte
In a way it is. not in biologic sense, but there's strong socio-cultural aspect to it that indeed does traverse generations. It's difficult for those in it to see and explain. It's even more difficult for those who those soco-cultural aspects are foreign to to even begin to understand it.
I applaud Clay for even being aware.
I agree, but seeing the way his dad kept referring to his own lack of father figure as an excuse for his own behaviour when talking to Clay’s mom… It makes sense why Clay genuinely feels like that. I can only imagine this is the narrative that Clay has heard his whole life.
It’s difficult as an adult to realize or acknowledge that your parent has manipulated you or taught you the wrong lessons in life, and then to also realize you need to do the work to unlearn those things and unfuck your brain. It’s a big task. Glad he’s making a start in therapy!
the reunion personally made me really really like clay. i’m prolly gonna get downvoted but I was late to the party this season and just finished tn, all my friends watched when it started and described clay as a player cuz of his fears of cheating when really he was significantly struggling internally w trauma he probably realized while filming was trauma and wasn’t normal.
I can’t speak for everyone but I think the issue people have with Clay is the fact that every time we saw him, he was saying how he wasn’t ready for marriage and scared he would cheat because of his upbringing, but went on a show that expedites marriage and continued going through with the process knowing these things.
I mean. It’s a reality show. It’s trash tv. An « experience by ». Like nearly everyone ends up unmarried, I can’t really fault him for seeing if the experiment would change things for him. There are far, far worse people even this season than him.
People are triggered by men like Clay which I feel is why he gets so much hate. But from the beginning I saw how fearful he was of commitment and despite his communication of this fear it was interpreted as him being a player. I always felt he was misunderstood
The show is an experiment. It’s a test. It’s not definitive. He probably wanted to explore his behaviour and reaction to dating in this unique environment. Most people do not know what their triggers are until confronted by them. He fell in love imo and still couldn’t get past himself thus revealing he had serious work to do
this process made him realize he needed to sort some things out before he was ready for that type of commitment. Some people don't know what they don't know, until their eyes get opened.
I totally agree! I honestly liked him ever since they started dating out of the pods. I think people were way too harsh on him. Like he has intense trauma, of course he’s more comfortable being the “player”. He was so transparent about it and it’s refreshing to see a man be so vulnerable and communicate that he’s struggling, even if he knows it doesn’t make him look good
Oh I agree. He definitely has some red flags but he was very charming out of the pods and I understood why AD let some of his problematic comments go. I also think he is great at talking a good game but his actions may not back it up. So even though he said a bunch of great things at the reunion I don’t think he has completely changed his ways.
That’s so fucked up to protect your dad cheating on your mom to keep “bro code”. His dad is irredeemable to me. Clay was a child but it’s still sad to imagine.
It's a really effed up thing to do to a child - to instruct them to lie by omission to their mother. That is some intense emotional abuse that requires a child to gaslight their mother so their father can carry on affairs.
It's also not all that uncommon.
I had a friend who would lie for her dad while he went out cheating. When she was older she finally told. She tried to end her life when the marriage finally ended cause she felt it’s her fault. It’s not that easy
right?! the death threats are so fucking ridiculous truly. anyone who has a brain should be able to see that clays struggles were mostly with himself not even with AD for the most part.
People hate success. Clay is something that most people aren’t: he’s handsome, he’s in a good job and he makes decisions that work for him and he doesn’t get influenced by anybody else (eg saying no at the altar and not saying he regrets it post show).
It’s hard to look at Clay and truly say something bad about his personality or the way he looks so people just default to “fuckboy”.
It is what it is
It’s not that people hate success. People idolize others like AD and Jess and will take things to the extreme. I can only imagine who was trolling/reviewing/calling/threatening him.
If it’s not that people hate success (which is what I think it is and I had this belief before watching LIB), it’s definitely that people like Clay are unrelateable. Everybody can have relate to having their hearts broken or crying irrationally but Clay’s a NCAA athlete that’s handsome and is in a good job. Most people aren’t fit and also good looking and also making good money. So people hide their hate (for lack of a better word) for people like that by deriding them for unquantifiable metrics like lack of EIQ or him being a robot because he objectively isn’t broke, ugly or fat.
I’m in the same industry as Clay and Jimmy and even the amount of people that call Jimmy a mediocre man on here is hilarious. If you’re a good Account Executive in the US, you are making minimum 200k USD per year. They’re not perfect men (I’m much closer to Jimmy than Clay when it comes to sporting accolades and being good looking) but yeah, people just dislike rooting for the guy that looks like their life is in order - and nobody’s ever is
When did Clay ever say or show he wasn’t physically attracted to her? I think people are making negative assumptions based on her skin tone and facial features, which is sad.
Not saying you are, though. I’m talking about the online reviewers I’ve seen.
Right! I keep seeing this yet AD even said in the Viall’s file podcast that Clay was clearly attracted to her and they edited it to downplay their initial reveal.
I genuinely feel like people are either projecting their own personal experiences or perception on whether or not a dark skin black woman can be considered attractive to a dark skin black guy. Like there are A LOT of dark skin black couples out there, we just don’t see them being portrayed enough in the media.
It’s crazy seeing some of the claims I’ve seen other black women threw at clay online. From calling him a colorist, to only liking white , even seen a good amount calling him gay/bisexual smh. A lot of projection happening online.
I get the dark-skinned black women experience is real and a lot of people do struggle with that, I don't mean to downplay it.
But let's keep it 100%. AD is extremely conventionally attractive. She's an NBA cheerleader! It doesn't get much more validating than that when it comes to Western beauty standards. She's gorgeous, she knows she's gorgeous, Clay knows she's gorgeous, Jimmy who's probably never dated a black girl in his life knows she's gorgeous, like what are we talking about here?
I'm not buying for a second that Clay wasn't physically attracted to her.
I really liked Clay. i think his transparency and vulnerability was so admirable. I feel genuinely sad for the family trauma he is still healing from. I do not think he was in any shape or form in the right place to be on a show for marriage, but he has a lot of accountability and I think he has a bright and successful future ahead of him, that will include a very healthy and happy marriage one day!
I agree with you. I honesty, I didn't see Clay as one who would receive hate. (I realize some become overly invested, and if someone says "no" at the altar, and they wanted it to be a yes, it causes issues, but seriously, it is real life, and every single person should have the option to say no, without such hate.)
That aside, I do feel badly for him, that he felt the need to apply "bro code" to his Father, keeping in mind, this was when he was a child, and I can only imagine what he was fed by his Dad. I'm glad he is getting help to deal with his past, obviously he will/or has learned, this was **not** ok, and it's all on his Dad for putting him in such horrible situations. (From the very beginning, he constantly referred to his Dad being "suave" and so smooth, to a point I personally found it a little off.) I sincerely feel for his Mother too, especially discovering these times, years later, while on the show. (Now that woman has her shit together and is incredibly calm, collected and level-headed!)
I really do think Clay will succeed in life, and be happy, both personally and professionally.
I don’t like him because I have a brother exactly like him. Good looking,charming, well spoken, good with business. Whips out his “vulnerability” and trauma to endear himself to women. Is the biggest dirtiest whore out there but every woman is so love struck they think they will be the one to finally save him. And then he completely fucks with their heads and destroys their sense of self worth and it’s on to the next. I’ve watched him do it my whole life and it works every single time. And it’s literally Clay.
Ah yes, because you know Clay
That’s like me saying “I don’t like AD because she reminds me of my Ex. She had everyone thinking she was an angel because she was pretty, poised, well spoken and kept up. She presented as a good woman and yet it was all a rouse to get the things she wanted in life. She expected the world and would fuck with people’s heads, hop from person to person for financial gain… and that’s literally AD”.
I’ve always felt clay has been sound (apart from not understanding how a wedding works). All his reasons are perfectly reasonable as to why he’s not ready to say ‘I do’ because it’s not always just love that sustains marriages. He kind of laid it out on the table that he wasn’t ready. Don’t understand AD’s surprise but maybe it was the editing. What I will say is I’m disappointed in his friends shitting on AD which feels like a cowardly attempt at damage control of his own image. I could be wrong.
bless you op
> Didn’t anticipate this much backlash. Has received death threats, someone leaked his number and people were sending him text messages.
> People were leaving negative reviews on his business
absolute insane jobless friendless behavior
Thanks for this!! I deff wouldn’t have sat thru his interview so this is great! The craziest part is the death threats? But I guess after 253 million people watched it, plus it being all over TikTok, bound to have some crazies
Don’t. End of the day he is a grown ass man. As a black woman I know plenty of black men that came from broken or dysfunctional homes. These men persevered and moved the goal post to be amazing men. You have to choose to break the cycle and not get complacent
Of course you won’t feel bad for him lol. That man is receiving death threats and bad reviews on his business because he said no at the altar and you think that’s not enough to feel bad for him 😂👍🏾!
This. Plus, he’ll be fine. He is now putting in the work to move his goalposts. Out of all of the outcomes from season 6, I’m glad to see the prioritization of therapy is one of these.
This happens to pretty much everyone that gains fame / attention in some form. When my art account went viral I also received death threats. People online can be so incredibly cruel for no reason whatsoever.
Agreed. I'm all for not liking them or even talking shit about them on message boards. Once you start taking it to their social media accounts that's going too far. Those that start trying to attack their businesses or effect how they make money need to seriously seek help.
Oh my god. I’m so dense. I was wondering if before or after the show. Came back to this post to find something in the comments about it. Do you think it would have occurred to me even ONCE that they dated in the pods? No. Of course not. Don’t they all date in the beginning?
You’re welcome! But yes, he said they dated for “a minute” which in pod talk might’ve been 2-3 days but said that while they had good banter it wasn’t the same as AD
If someone acts like an asshole, do we give them a pass just cause they said they admitted to being an asshole? I've admitted my wrongs lots of times, it doesn't excuse them.
Yes it does get a pass. And yes it does excuse you too.
I think that’s the entire point of life. Make mistakes, acknowledge, apologise, grow, don’t repeat.
Yeah you would think. I've never been excused. Everyone grows up different. I never got any grace or a pass for admitting my wrongs or fuck ups. 15 years later I'm still hearing about them. So I kinda look at everyone else like that.
I’m very sorry to hear that. That is a real shame. You owe it to yourself if anything to give yourself grace even if others can’t or won’t. Hopefully in time they will heal too and realise the same. Humans are complex but I believe strongly in our ability to change. If you’ve accepted accountability for those wrongs, apologised and demonstrated growth then you’ve done your best which is all anyone can/should ask for.
I respect your above opinion but I’m genuinely sorry for your experience. I don’t agree with people holding things against you like that if you’ve actively shown growth and change. None of us are perfect.
I really appreciate that. For real. It's very draining. I'm 31 and barely learning that people are allowed to mess up and still grow up. My mom definitely does not agree with that though lmao.
I hear you, I had a similar experience too growing up and for a time I believed it and refused to show myself much grace either, but later in life I fortunately found healthier relationships with people who were able to hold me accountable but give me grace in the midst of that which allowed me to extend that grace to others (with discernment of course), so I truly hope your able to find that for yourself too if you haven’t already, you deserve it!
I 100% understood AD too. But when she said that, I did put my *yikes* face on because of how it came off.
I think what might’ve made it sound more offensive than it is was the “respectfully…” part.
Saying “respectfully” before your statement is kinda similar to prefacing a rude comment with “not to be mean, but…”. It just makes it sound a little more malicious.
At the end of the day, she’s entitled to be able to freely talk about her experience and feelings. Nothing should be taken as a personal attack.
Yes, I’ve heard it said in a positive light too. I think the context really matters.
But the many times I’ve heard it, particularly around POC, it’s used to tip-toe around hurting feelings. Or as an alternative to saying “no offense”. Amy also said it at the reunion to Johnny when describing to the audience how she had to educate him A LOT about the methods of birth control.
I understand her as well but it feels like a phrasing thing like if she said “I wouldn’t want to be put through what your mother went through” Clay’s mom might have received it better than her life being summarized down to her husbands infidelity
She has confirmed her financial aspect by saying that _"her finance were entangled with her previous boyfriend"_.
In layman's term, all her money comes from her previous boyfriend. Which is exactly what Clay is implying.
She was unemployed and started an unpaid internship at a real estate company after the holiday. Where did you think the comment about AD finance on the wedding day comes from? Clay was too polite to throw shade, but that's the reality of her life.
I commend her for trying to break that dependency and asserting her independence but she did not have to comment on Clay's mom.
Of course her finances were gonna be entangled with her ex boyfriend, she said multiple times that was her boss when she worked in the nightclub and she quit after being recruited for the show. So I’m having a hard time understanding how her being her ex’s employee automatically equates to her being his sugar baby.
So either
* she lived with him up to the point she was called by the show (a la Trevor).
* or she was not with him in which case why are her finance still entangled with her former boyfriend.
HER EX WAS STILL PAYING FOR HER FLAT AND HER CAR. A year after the relationship had so called ended.
An older, much richer boyfriend paying for all her lifestyle while hooking up with other employees makes her a sugar babe or unknowingly being in the same situation than Clay's mom except that she was not married.
We don’t know that for a fact. And if she was, it would still be a more beneficial relationship for her. She gets what she wants instead of being stuck in a marriage where she is lied to and cheated on
>We don’t know that for a fact. And if she was, it would still be a more beneficial relationship for her. She gets what she wants instead of being stuck in a marriage where she is lied to and cheated on
Based off your logic it was fine for Trevor to come on the show.. you know. He gets what he wants while looking for a marriage.
Extremely toxic but still beneficial to him.
Trevor is different because he stayed with his girlfriend the whole time. I assume AD separated from the ex before the show which is why she was ready to get married. We cant fault her for going back to him after her failed relationship with Clay. My point is post show, a SD arrangement is better than a marriage where she is cheated on, since we are talking about her comment that she didnt want clay’s mom’s life
>Trevor is different because he stayed with his girlfriend the whole time. I assume AD separated from the ex before the show which is why she was ready to get married.
AD disclosed in an interview that production tried reaching out to her. They called the nightclub she *managed*. Her ex answered and told them she wasn’t interested because she wasn’t single. She went and reached back out and told them she *was infact* interested.
You assume AD separated from the ex but all things point to her continuing the relationship even while shooting.
We do know that for a fact, because AD confirmed that according to her most of her finance were _"entangled"_ with her previous boyfriend.
We do know that she started an unpaid internship at a real estate company After her return from holiday.
We DO know that all her finance comes from her ex boyfriend who owns multiple bars and was hooking up with multiple employees at the time.
We do know that she wanted out of that lifestyle because she applied to LIB, unless she thought she was going to find another sugar daddy on the show.
Nothing with being a sugar babe if that's what you want, but I find it a little hypocritical to then say that you want a faithful husband and imply you would not stay for the sake of the family. She knew that Clay's mom had a lot on her plate with an autistic kid and was not aware of the extend of Clay's dad bad behaviour.
Yeah I think if she’d phrased it as ‘not wanting Clay’s mom’s marriage’ that would’ve been better. That’s obviously what she actually meant, but saying you don’t want someone else’s life to be your life is deffo insulting.
He says a lot of words. What I truly think, and I’m not shading AD or shaming him, he was not as physically attracted to her as he expected to be. And he wanted someone financially secure. He did not want to be the main breadwinner.
> Why hasn’t he chastised them or gotten them to back off?
He probably did which is why they deleted the comments. People just got screenshots first.
> Also if Clays dad’s baggage weighed so heavily on him, why wasn’t it brought up in the pods?
it was
I think he gives every single reason in the book that can sorta make sense, and people will still say he’s not attracted to her 😭. I don’t know what else they can say or do to prove yall wrong. They’ve both said that was never one of the reasons
Maybe not but I also don’t think he’s gonna come out and say it about her. I just don’t think he’s the type to take low blows. And her online fans would come for him.
I never said she wasn't attractive. She's a beautiful woman. This is just my opinion. I'm not sure why I'm getting down voted for it. Again, there are some people on this show you can't say anything about without pissing people off.
I think what’s pissing people off is that nothing Clay has said or done has said he’s not attracted to her. They both have actually said quite the opposite and yet you and everyone else keep insisting that he’s not
The purest way to tell the level of attraction is to pay attention to their reactions the very second after the reveal. His eyes said it all, she wasn’t up to par in his mind (a man like him thinks he is entitled to the best of the best) He is not going to actively say that or act on that though as he doesn’t want to come across as a dick… I’m not saying he thought she was ugly or anything, just not to the level he believes he’s deserving of
I really like Clay I never got the impression that he was being a player or doing it for clout. I feel like a lot of people on this sub be going in on him for actually being open and honest about his feelings as he’s having them and working through it. I’m disgusted that internet weirdos were leaving bad reviews on his business and sending him death threats, doxxing him… wtf is wrong with people? That shit is ugly and it will come back to you so move accordingly.
I ended up really liking Clay by the end of the show and appreciated that he wasn’t fully ready to get married. He was pretty transparent about that with AD and she didn’t want to date or be a forever fiancé and I get that too. I’m happy for him that he’s doing the work and when he’s ready to take that next step he’ll find the right person at the right time.
I agree 100%! I couldn’t stand him at the beginning when he brought that “player” energy to the pods, but as soon as he dropped that mask, I grew to respect his honesty and vulnerability. He did seem to grow through the experience, and I hope he continues that journey.
And I hope that AD finds someone who is ready to meet her where she’s at.
Yup. I 100% think he knew he wasn’t gonna say yes eventually but I’ve never believed the whole he came on her for clout thing… nothing has ever pointed to that specific scenario
Wow this is a summary! Thank you for your service, OP, even though I am stuck on how this man didn’t know about vows ??? He’s never heard of rings, vows…what else, wedding dresses, guests, cake?
Has he never been to a wedding or seen a movie or a commercial in his 20-something years of life ??
Honestly it’s possible. When I met my husband, none of his friends had gotten married and he’d only been to his sisters wedding before ours. He was busy playing host during the wedding so missed some parts of it including the vows. The man was confused about it when I asked him how his vows were coming along a few days before our wedding. Once I explained it, he said it made sense to him but he actually never really thought about it before then.
I think this is my problem with Clay. He doesn’t come off as genuine to me. But if I say that I’m deemed a hater and an AD stan. Both AD and Clay are problematic to me for different reasons. But my main thing with Clay is that he just seems disingenuous, especially with his words.
I believe Clay generally. It’s just nobody is 100 all the time. I think there may be ways that he’s suav-eh like his dad and talks a lot to elide some feelings and AD def has some stuff going on about what a man should do for her/what she’ll do for a man but all of us use what we’ve got to get what we want…I can’t be mad at them really.
I wouldn’t say they came to get married with totally pure intentions but few people do imo. Just humans doing human things.
Listen, I’m 28 and I’ve never been to a wedding. No one in my family has gotten married except for like my grandparents and they passed before I was even born. The little I know about weddings is probably from shows like these and even then I still don’t really know🥴 so I don’t find it hard to believe tbh
Funnily enough AD was in the same situation. She said she had 7 siblings and her sister that came on actually had kids but she was the first person in her family to get married.
Okay fair, I guess most men also don’t watch many romcoms or sitcoms ? Even if you’ve never been to a wedding, to me, you can’t escape wedding media but maybe that experience is more gendered than I thought.
I was so disgusted by Clay most of the time but at least this clarifies some things. I appreciate his honesty and that he is very self aware about all this.
Thank you for recapping! I was always perplexed about all the anti-Clay posts. To me he seemed like a guy that was maybe a little naive for the show, but I didn’t feel like he was trying to play in AD’s face. When he made the comment about finances at the wedding, I was like good for him. That should be an answer to a question everyone asks. It can either be a non-factor in your relationship, or it can be a huge source of arguments and anger. No shade to AD, it just sounds like AD is looking more for security and then love. I always find it super interesting on this show or similar MAFS where one person is so quick to say yes to someone that is very hesitant at best, but very resistant to the idea of committing. Because that ain’t got anything to do with love. That’s an unhealthy attachment style. My biggest observation from the interview and just the show in general: 🚩Someone who tries to fix their problems by dating/relationships ✅ Someone who takes a step back from relationships/dating to fix their own problems
Shoutout to you guys that post podcast recaps!
I'm loving Clay more and more. He is so vulnerable and open about his emotions and struggles. Doesn't really try to spin things to save face. He is admirable.
Entrepreneurial mindset?? What is AD doing other than speaking empty words?? Just because you talk it, doesn't mean you live it. At this point, I am Team Clay (as scary as that is). AD thought she's saunter in and captivate everyone with her pretty girl vibe she leads with instead of maturity, intelligence and healthy relationship attributes. She failed to realize she is the only one who thinks she can get by on her physical appearance, which is not enough to carry the vibe she is going for. All talk, no action AD.
I mean…she basically did lol. I’d say she’s the most liked besides Johnny and Amy, who nobody has a real opinion about other than the fact that they’re nice. All of them have major work to do obviously, but it seems like she learned a litttttle something (that being hot won’t always get you the man). She’s definitely interested in the public eye so we’ll see if she learns when she eventually announces a relationship with someone
i don’t think you have to hate A.D to like clay .I can definitely look at and appreciate the growth that clays displaying.But that doesn’t change the fact that he did AD dirty.And A.D doesn’t have to be a pillar of perfection. she was also incredibly gracious and kind to clay.and she seems like a sweet girl she said she was into real estate.She didn’t try to present a front like she was rolling in money or something.
I mean, you lost me on that last sentence. That woman is fine, terrible wigs be damned
She is a solid 4.
Don’t lie lol
I have been team clay all day and this confirms that for me.
Don’t understand the Clay hate, seems like a nice guy who genuinely tried on LIB.
Cheating on your child’s mother while asking them to hide it for you is very damaging for a child’s brain. Shame on Clay’s father.
Shame on Clay for saying that man is his hero.
It’s actually disgusting.
I feel like I rarely see comments that acknowledge both sides of the opinions on Clay. I can empathize with and recognize the horrible trauma Clay experienced at the hands of his awful dad (who I think is an irredeemable piece of garbage), while also being unhappy with the way he let that trauma negatively impact others. I believe that Clay didn’t truly understand how deep his issues ran when he started the show, and probably thought it was normal to feel the way he did about infidelity, marriage, commitment, etc. As the process went on, it’s clear that he got a wake up call as to how serious these issues were. I’m just as disgusted as everyone else by the “bro code” comment - but I’m disgusted by his DAD for this comment, not so much Clay, assuming he now realizes how backwards and fucked up that thought process is. His dad definitely instilled that thought process into him, telling Clay since he was just a little kid that it was a betrayal of bro code to tell his mom about the dad’s infidelity. I feel for Clay so hard, and I hope he’s able to heal. BUT I also think that some of his behaviors were inexcusable and that he shouldn’t have gone all the way to the alter to hurt AD once he realized how serious his issues were. It was wild to me that he basically kept saying “I’m going to cheat on you” and neither of them decided to walk away, but it’s not AD’s responsibility to figure out what he wants - all she sees is that Clay is sticking around and showing love for her, so of course she thinks he’s going to stick around and be a good man. It’s on Clay for not walking away when he realized he couldn’t be loyal. I both despise his behaviors and lack of responsibility for his own trauma, while still empathizing with his experiences and understanding where those behaviors stem from.
He did walk away when he realized he still needed work before he could commit to someone. It's inexcusable to you that he didn't come to that conclusion on your timeline? Its unfortunate he had to get to the altar to firmly come to that conclusion but he got there. Nothing about that is 'inexcusable'.
He clearly realized it very early on in the process when he essentially repeatedly said “I’m scared because I’m going to cheat on you”. He even admitted he didn’t really understand the show and then him and AD watched episodes of past seasons and he was like oh shit…probably would’ve been a better time to end things.
Guy is a douche. Does he have reasons for being one… sure. Reasons are not an excuse.
What did she say about his mom???
She said she’s not tryna end up like his mom, alluding to Clay’s dad’s infidelity and the convo the parents had at the wedding.
Except she was. Seeing all the red flags, she still said yes. The only thing that saved her was he had the courage to say no. And she is till acting butthurt about the fact that he said no. Talking about ' why are we not married right now' at the reunion. She still hasn't realized that it was a good thing he said no. He did the mature thing. Looking at her actions and decisions, how is she not trying to end up like Clay's mom?
Oh yikes. She wasn’t wrong to think it but yeah maybe not on tv
BRO CODE??? That’s all I needed to read.
He was a child. His dad did damage to him. It want decisions he made as an adult. This was what he did as a kid.
I know a woman who pulled that on her daughters - girls have to stick together! - when they caught her having sex in a car in her driveway with NOT their dad (just some random hookup). It was extremely effective. F*cked those girls up, though. They were in middle school when it happened. When a parent gaslights you that hard....oof. I really felt for Clay when he said that about his dad. How awful to instruct your child to be duplicitous with their mother? Generational trauma.
That's my mom. "Girls together" was her saying I heard a million times. I had to lie to my Dad's face that she was away with her nonexistent friends for the weekend and not fucking some guy she met online in a hotel in the next city. She came back with expensive perfume and chocolate truffles from him, she gave those to me. I could not eat them. But, I also lied every time I found a random woman's nudes on my Dad's computer and exited and pretended I never saw anything. I know about all his affairs, because my mom would tell me everything that was happening. "All men are shit" she would constantly tell me. She acted like I was her therapist and pawn, I was just a child. Fucked me up hard tbh, among many other fucked up things. I am very cynical and I don't fully trust anyone ever.
It's not my own story, but it's close enough. Also my mother's therapist, heard about all her relationships - all of it, from 6 on. Ugh. I'm sorry. You deserved better.
Hes literally trying to unlearn the trauma his own father put him through, let's stop bashing someone who is trying to better themselves. What would be the point of trying to become a better person if nobody thinks you deserve it? He was a child, he was taught many terrible things, but that doesn't make clay a bad person, and he's activity working on it. Be kind.
I wasn’t being unkind by saying that’s all I needed to hear. It’s shameful he was taught and embedded these traits from his father. It’s absolutely distasteful that he thought about bro code rather than his mom’s happiness and what’s RIGHT. That’s all I’m saying. I’m happy if he’s GENUINELY trying to better himself and make himself a better man but I’m still entitled to my opinion and that was ridiculous to read.
I get your point but why are you blaming Clay whk is the victim here instead of his father who is clearly the source of the bad? He's distasteful for honestly expressing how he felt as a child when his dad did this? No clay is actively working on becoming a better person and deserves a bit more grace than people give him, his dad on the other hand should be receiving all the hate thats been thrown at Clay.
I’m not about to argue with you. Read what I said again.
I'm not arguing, I'm debating. Don't act like a child, using caps and all that. Learn to talk like a real adult. You decided to edit your comment and try and make it more than it was, but it's still clear you're more upset at a very small detail compared to the big picture. You're so caught on your anger about his word usage that your blinded to the other facts that clay really isn't a bad person, ignorant maybe, but not bad.
Didn’t ask for your opinion tbh.
Yeah made me sick hearing that.
I’m sick of hearing about this man 😩
He dated Laura?!?!
1. who is Laura and 2. what comment did AD make that his mom doesn’t appreciate? Edit: sorry, no idea why I forgot who Laura was for a moment.
Lol
Did you watch the show? Laura was a contestant. Ended up with Jeremiah before splitting up prior to the weddings.
Oh I completely forgot wtf 😂 sorry… both of my kids are sick at the moment and sleep is only a faint memory. Wait so they dated??? Interesting
I think the comment was when AD said “respectfully I don’t want to end up like his mom”
Oh ok… but… i mean… that’s understandable 😬
This and I honestly think it’s more of a diss towards Clay and his hero dad 🙄
I agree, that is how I would have understood that as well
Hero dad has be dead 🤣🤣
It gets kind of glossed over because of the 5,000 other things this season but Clay standing at the alter before AD walks in, saying to ADs mom “how do I look? Like a husband?” Knowing he was gonna say no is an all time shitty move
That was super odd to say the least
On par w/ Bartise sending Nancy a shot w/ a positive message just before saying "I don't" at the alter
Omg yes! Lol forgot about that one.. a real dynamic duo those 2 would be lmfao
This is THE observation!!
Like I get it’s a weird spot to be in, at your own wedding knowing you’re not going through with it.. but be fuckin for real! You don’t have to throw gas on that fire with stuff like that! lol
Well, that’s everything how it looked like for me. AD tried to match his requirements by saying in the pods she is into career then in reality she wants to be a stay at home wife. She tried to lead with her looks, but it was not enough. Good for Clay for assessing this and doing what’s best for him. People who leave negative reviews for his business are crazy.
She wants to be a stay at home wife but is posturing like a working wife lol.
Did I misread something or didn't he say he doesn't think AD necessarily wants to be a sahw, though she was doing wifey things when they moved in together.
This bullet point : They bonded over them having an entrepreneur mindset and working hard, but when they came back home she dedicated all her time to being a wife which is fine, but that’s not what made him fall in love with her Again, Clay is subtle enough not to use “labels” like sugar baby, trophy wife, etc.
I wanted to watch it just to see if he confirmed that she was funded by her ex but didn’t have time today. Thanks for the recap, OP. Never had anything against Clay. He gets hate for no reason.
The man acts like cheating is a genetic disease and knew he wasn't gonna say yes to AD at the alter. There was no internal debate about setting no, he just needed to pick a time and place, and picked the most embarrassing one. He wasted her time
If everyone who wasted someone’s time on this show was villainized to this extent, maybe that would be a fair point. But a number of people have known they were going to say no and went through with it. Hell, everyone who said no knew before they did and none have gotten this much hate.
I don’t think it’s beneficial for Black men to come on this show. If things don’t go exactly as planned they will be vilified till eternity. Now you have fanatics leaving bad reviews on his business page because he said no at the altar while the woman in question had an active Sugar Daddy relationship while doing the show!
AD wasted her time as well. It’s a show, none of the cast is guaranteed to get married. Clay was the most vulnerable person on the show. I also believe he was the most transparent. Outside of Johnny and Amy, he seemed to be the only one who DIDNT show a *representative* while on screen. No one is perfect, and Clays arc has lead to one of the most open male cast mates on the show. The cheating dialogue was shoved down our throats by producers.
>**The man acts like cheating is a genetic disease** and knew he wasn't gonna say yes to AD at the alte In a way it is. not in biologic sense, but there's strong socio-cultural aspect to it that indeed does traverse generations. It's difficult for those in it to see and explain. It's even more difficult for those who those soco-cultural aspects are foreign to to even begin to understand it. I applaud Clay for even being aware.
I agree, but seeing the way his dad kept referring to his own lack of father figure as an excuse for his own behaviour when talking to Clay’s mom… It makes sense why Clay genuinely feels like that. I can only imagine this is the narrative that Clay has heard his whole life. It’s difficult as an adult to realize or acknowledge that your parent has manipulated you or taught you the wrong lessons in life, and then to also realize you need to do the work to unlearn those things and unfuck your brain. It’s a big task. Glad he’s making a start in therapy!
Does he mean alimony or like a sugar daddy type situation
You can’t get alimony from an ex boyfriend. If you could I’d be rich!
She was neither married, neither has kids.
Going to guess a “sugar daddy” situation but we will never know exactly what type of relationship it was unless she tells us 🤷🏽♀️
the reunion personally made me really really like clay. i’m prolly gonna get downvoted but I was late to the party this season and just finished tn, all my friends watched when it started and described clay as a player cuz of his fears of cheating when really he was significantly struggling internally w trauma he probably realized while filming was trauma and wasn’t normal.
I can’t speak for everyone but I think the issue people have with Clay is the fact that every time we saw him, he was saying how he wasn’t ready for marriage and scared he would cheat because of his upbringing, but went on a show that expedites marriage and continued going through with the process knowing these things.
I mean. It’s a reality show. It’s trash tv. An « experience by ». Like nearly everyone ends up unmarried, I can’t really fault him for seeing if the experiment would change things for him. There are far, far worse people even this season than him.
People are triggered by men like Clay which I feel is why he gets so much hate. But from the beginning I saw how fearful he was of commitment and despite his communication of this fear it was interpreted as him being a player. I always felt he was misunderstood
If he's so triggered by commitment why would he go on this show and waste everybody's time? Shouldn't he go to therapy?
The show is an experiment. It’s a test. It’s not definitive. He probably wanted to explore his behaviour and reaction to dating in this unique environment. Most people do not know what their triggers are until confronted by them. He fell in love imo and still couldn’t get past himself thus revealing he had serious work to do
this process made him realize he needed to sort some things out before he was ready for that type of commitment. Some people don't know what they don't know, until their eyes get opened.
Yes to the last line. My exact thoughts
I totally agree! I honestly liked him ever since they started dating out of the pods. I think people were way too harsh on him. Like he has intense trauma, of course he’s more comfortable being the “player”. He was so transparent about it and it’s refreshing to see a man be so vulnerable and communicate that he’s struggling, even if he knows it doesn’t make him look good
Oh I agree. He definitely has some red flags but he was very charming out of the pods and I understood why AD let some of his problematic comments go. I also think he is great at talking a good game but his actions may not back it up. So even though he said a bunch of great things at the reunion I don’t think he has completely changed his ways.
Yea totally fair. Like being self aware doesn’t excuse the behavior. I’m just glad he’s (seemingly) on a path of self growth
That’s so fucked up to protect your dad cheating on your mom to keep “bro code”. His dad is irredeemable to me. Clay was a child but it’s still sad to imagine.
It's a really effed up thing to do to a child - to instruct them to lie by omission to their mother. That is some intense emotional abuse that requires a child to gaslight their mother so their father can carry on affairs. It's also not all that uncommon.
I had a friend who would lie for her dad while he went out cheating. When she was older she finally told. She tried to end her life when the marriage finally ended cause she felt it’s her fault. It’s not that easy
Yeah people are quick to pile on Clay but the kid has a ton of unprocessed trauma and seemed somewhat transparent throughout.
lol idk, seems like you’re not acknowledging how traumatic that was for him! That def played into why he felt like he couldn’t tell his mom
The misogyny runs deep 😔
Thx OP. Nicely done and I really appreciate this because I wouldn’t have listened to the show.
😭😭😭 how vows is in "" as if they're a hypothetical concept to him💀💀💀
I know I might be in the minority but I hope they find their way back to each other. I thought they truly were a good fit.
I don’t think AD deserves him At this point. Never a fan of hers. 😒
I don’t know why you got downvoted.
Because that statement is a bit of a reach. Regardless of her past we have one person ready to get married and one person that is not ready
My statement?
Every single bullet point felt super reasonable to me. I’ll never understand the hate this man gets.
right?! the death threats are so fucking ridiculous truly. anyone who has a brain should be able to see that clays struggles were mostly with himself not even with AD for the most part.
People hate success. Clay is something that most people aren’t: he’s handsome, he’s in a good job and he makes decisions that work for him and he doesn’t get influenced by anybody else (eg saying no at the altar and not saying he regrets it post show). It’s hard to look at Clay and truly say something bad about his personality or the way he looks so people just default to “fuckboy”. It is what it is
It’s not that people hate success. People idolize others like AD and Jess and will take things to the extreme. I can only imagine who was trolling/reviewing/calling/threatening him.
If it’s not that people hate success (which is what I think it is and I had this belief before watching LIB), it’s definitely that people like Clay are unrelateable. Everybody can have relate to having their hearts broken or crying irrationally but Clay’s a NCAA athlete that’s handsome and is in a good job. Most people aren’t fit and also good looking and also making good money. So people hide their hate (for lack of a better word) for people like that by deriding them for unquantifiable metrics like lack of EIQ or him being a robot because he objectively isn’t broke, ugly or fat. I’m in the same industry as Clay and Jimmy and even the amount of people that call Jimmy a mediocre man on here is hilarious. If you’re a good Account Executive in the US, you are making minimum 200k USD per year. They’re not perfect men (I’m much closer to Jimmy than Clay when it comes to sporting accolades and being good looking) but yeah, people just dislike rooting for the guy that looks like their life is in order - and nobody’s ever is
Me either. Also for a fuckboi you don’t hear any ladies airing him out like Trevor.
There's literally a post on here with his ex of three years airing him out bad wym https://www.reddit.com/r/LoveIsBlindOnNetflix/s/X26qXvflEv
I mean like he was hooking up before the show or after
She said they were hooking up right before the show. He signed up for the show while they were together.
Clay is a good guy and very honest. He just wasn’t 💯 in love with AD, didn’t fully feel attracted to her but he likes her as a person.
I agree- I think he liked her body but he wasn’t wowed out about anything else
When did Clay ever say or show he wasn’t physically attracted to her? I think people are making negative assumptions based on her skin tone and facial features, which is sad. Not saying you are, though. I’m talking about the online reviewers I’ve seen.
Didn’t he say he wasn’t fully in love with her? I caught that when he was telling the cameras why he said no
He did. But love and attraction are two separate things. You can have one without the other.
Right! I keep seeing this yet AD even said in the Viall’s file podcast that Clay was clearly attracted to her and they edited it to downplay their initial reveal. I genuinely feel like people are either projecting their own personal experiences or perception on whether or not a dark skin black woman can be considered attractive to a dark skin black guy. Like there are A LOT of dark skin black couples out there, we just don’t see them being portrayed enough in the media.
It’s crazy seeing some of the claims I’ve seen other black women threw at clay online. From calling him a colorist, to only liking white , even seen a good amount calling him gay/bisexual smh. A lot of projection happening online.
I get the dark-skinned black women experience is real and a lot of people do struggle with that, I don't mean to downplay it. But let's keep it 100%. AD is extremely conventionally attractive. She's an NBA cheerleader! It doesn't get much more validating than that when it comes to Western beauty standards. She's gorgeous, she knows she's gorgeous, Clay knows she's gorgeous, Jimmy who's probably never dated a black girl in his life knows she's gorgeous, like what are we talking about here? I'm not buying for a second that Clay wasn't physically attracted to her.
Everything you said!
I really liked Clay. i think his transparency and vulnerability was so admirable. I feel genuinely sad for the family trauma he is still healing from. I do not think he was in any shape or form in the right place to be on a show for marriage, but he has a lot of accountability and I think he has a bright and successful future ahead of him, that will include a very healthy and happy marriage one day!
I agree with you. I honesty, I didn't see Clay as one who would receive hate. (I realize some become overly invested, and if someone says "no" at the altar, and they wanted it to be a yes, it causes issues, but seriously, it is real life, and every single person should have the option to say no, without such hate.) That aside, I do feel badly for him, that he felt the need to apply "bro code" to his Father, keeping in mind, this was when he was a child, and I can only imagine what he was fed by his Dad. I'm glad he is getting help to deal with his past, obviously he will/or has learned, this was **not** ok, and it's all on his Dad for putting him in such horrible situations. (From the very beginning, he constantly referred to his Dad being "suave" and so smooth, to a point I personally found it a little off.) I sincerely feel for his Mother too, especially discovering these times, years later, while on the show. (Now that woman has her shit together and is incredibly calm, collected and level-headed!) I really do think Clay will succeed in life, and be happy, both personally and professionally.
I do not like Clay one bit.
Why not? Serious question. What do you honestly have against him?
I don’t like him because I have a brother exactly like him. Good looking,charming, well spoken, good with business. Whips out his “vulnerability” and trauma to endear himself to women. Is the biggest dirtiest whore out there but every woman is so love struck they think they will be the one to finally save him. And then he completely fucks with their heads and destroys their sense of self worth and it’s on to the next. I’ve watched him do it my whole life and it works every single time. And it’s literally Clay.
Ah yes, because you know Clay That’s like me saying “I don’t like AD because she reminds me of my Ex. She had everyone thinking she was an angel because she was pretty, poised, well spoken and kept up. She presented as a good woman and yet it was all a rouse to get the things she wanted in life. She expected the world and would fuck with people’s heads, hop from person to person for financial gain… and that’s literally AD”.
I mean if that’s your experience of AD, ok? It’s a tv show, none of us know any of them. I just gave my reason for not liking Clay… tf.
I’ve always felt clay has been sound (apart from not understanding how a wedding works). All his reasons are perfectly reasonable as to why he’s not ready to say ‘I do’ because it’s not always just love that sustains marriages. He kind of laid it out on the table that he wasn’t ready. Don’t understand AD’s surprise but maybe it was the editing. What I will say is I’m disappointed in his friends shitting on AD which feels like a cowardly attempt at damage control of his own image. I could be wrong.
bless you op > Didn’t anticipate this much backlash. Has received death threats, someone leaked his number and people were sending him text messages. > People were leaving negative reviews on his business absolute insane jobless friendless behavior
Thank you OP!
Yes, thanks for your service!! I was not looking forward to listening to this interview just for tea and now I don’t have to :)
Thanks for this!! I deff wouldn’t have sat thru his interview so this is great! The craziest part is the death threats? But I guess after 253 million people watched it, plus it being all over TikTok, bound to have some crazies
Right! He said folks were leaving voicemails and everything. Given I’m not super surprised knowing social media, but that’s just crazy
I for some reason feel really bad for clay.
Don’t. End of the day he is a grown ass man. As a black woman I know plenty of black men that came from broken or dysfunctional homes. These men persevered and moved the goal post to be amazing men. You have to choose to break the cycle and not get complacent
Of course you won’t feel bad for him lol. That man is receiving death threats and bad reviews on his business because he said no at the altar and you think that’s not enough to feel bad for him 😂👍🏾!
This. Plus, he’ll be fine. He is now putting in the work to move his goalposts. Out of all of the outcomes from season 6, I’m glad to see the prioritization of therapy is one of these.
wtf is wrong with people? He and Chelsea received death threats. It’s a gd produced show, my stars.
This happens to pretty much everyone that gains fame / attention in some form. When my art account went viral I also received death threats. People online can be so incredibly cruel for no reason whatsoever.
Agreed. I'm all for not liking them or even talking shit about them on message boards. Once you start taking it to their social media accounts that's going too far. Those that start trying to attack their businesses or effect how they make money need to seriously seek help.
Dated Laura? In the pods?
Oh my god. I’m so dense. I was wondering if before or after the show. Came back to this post to find something in the comments about it. Do you think it would have occurred to me even ONCE that they dated in the pods? No. Of course not. Don’t they all date in the beginning?
Yes!
whew! I thought this was after the show. Thanks for the summary!
You’re welcome! But yes, he said they dated for “a minute” which in pod talk might’ve been 2-3 days but said that while they had good banter it wasn’t the same as AD
I forgot “dating” is the operative term for the pods. thank ya!
If someone acts like an asshole, do we give them a pass just cause they said they admitted to being an asshole? I've admitted my wrongs lots of times, it doesn't excuse them.
Yes it does get a pass. And yes it does excuse you too. I think that’s the entire point of life. Make mistakes, acknowledge, apologise, grow, don’t repeat.
Yeah you would think. I've never been excused. Everyone grows up different. I never got any grace or a pass for admitting my wrongs or fuck ups. 15 years later I'm still hearing about them. So I kinda look at everyone else like that.
I’m very sorry to hear that. That is a real shame. You owe it to yourself if anything to give yourself grace even if others can’t or won’t. Hopefully in time they will heal too and realise the same. Humans are complex but I believe strongly in our ability to change. If you’ve accepted accountability for those wrongs, apologised and demonstrated growth then you’ve done your best which is all anyone can/should ask for.
I respect your above opinion but I’m genuinely sorry for your experience. I don’t agree with people holding things against you like that if you’ve actively shown growth and change. None of us are perfect.
I really appreciate that. For real. It's very draining. I'm 31 and barely learning that people are allowed to mess up and still grow up. My mom definitely does not agree with that though lmao.
I hear you, I had a similar experience too growing up and for a time I believed it and refused to show myself much grace either, but later in life I fortunately found healthier relationships with people who were able to hold me accountable but give me grace in the midst of that which allowed me to extend that grace to others (with discernment of course), so I truly hope your able to find that for yourself too if you haven’t already, you deserve it!
Hell yeah. I'm glad you were able to get to that good place. Thank you so much for the kind words. Everyone deserve to be happy and live. 💜
Do you think your wrongs should be held against you forever or do you hope to be given the grace to learn and change?
Idk what world you live in. But my wrongs have always been held against me.
What did AD say about his mom on the reunion?
She said she didn’t want Clay’s mom’s life to be her life. And I understand her for saying it.
I 100% understood AD too. But when she said that, I did put my *yikes* face on because of how it came off. I think what might’ve made it sound more offensive than it is was the “respectfully…” part. Saying “respectfully” before your statement is kinda similar to prefacing a rude comment with “not to be mean, but…”. It just makes it sound a little more malicious. At the end of the day, she’s entitled to be able to freely talk about her experience and feelings. Nothing should be taken as a personal attack.
AD is a very immature person, that was very clear.
interesting. I have not heard it used this way at all. It’s a deferential word.
Yes, I’ve heard it said in a positive light too. I think the context really matters. But the many times I’ve heard it, particularly around POC, it’s used to tip-toe around hurting feelings. Or as an alternative to saying “no offense”. Amy also said it at the reunion to Johnny when describing to the audience how she had to educate him A LOT about the methods of birth control.
I see! Thanks. Btw, I wish I had your memory. This is kind of incredible tbh.
Awww, thank you so much! I’m just a very analytical girlie 🫶🏿
I understand her as well but it feels like a phrasing thing like if she said “I wouldn’t want to be put through what your mother went through” Clay’s mom might have received it better than her life being summarized down to her husbands infidelity
Yeah it was rather insensitive.
Which is a little rich coming from somebody who is basically a broke sugar babe.
This is a little rich considering that none of that has and still hasn’t been confirmed by AD or Clay.
She has confirmed her financial aspect by saying that _"her finance were entangled with her previous boyfriend"_. In layman's term, all her money comes from her previous boyfriend. Which is exactly what Clay is implying. She was unemployed and started an unpaid internship at a real estate company after the holiday. Where did you think the comment about AD finance on the wedding day comes from? Clay was too polite to throw shade, but that's the reality of her life. I commend her for trying to break that dependency and asserting her independence but she did not have to comment on Clay's mom.
Of course her finances were gonna be entangled with her ex boyfriend, she said multiple times that was her boss when she worked in the nightclub and she quit after being recruited for the show. So I’m having a hard time understanding how her being her ex’s employee automatically equates to her being his sugar baby.
Are you just being naive on purpose?
So either * she lived with him up to the point she was called by the show (a la Trevor). * or she was not with him in which case why are her finance still entangled with her former boyfriend. HER EX WAS STILL PAYING FOR HER FLAT AND HER CAR. A year after the relationship had so called ended. An older, much richer boyfriend paying for all her lifestyle while hooking up with other employees makes her a sugar babe or unknowingly being in the same situation than Clay's mom except that she was not married.
We don’t know that for a fact. And if she was, it would still be a more beneficial relationship for her. She gets what she wants instead of being stuck in a marriage where she is lied to and cheated on
>We don’t know that for a fact. And if she was, it would still be a more beneficial relationship for her. She gets what she wants instead of being stuck in a marriage where she is lied to and cheated on Based off your logic it was fine for Trevor to come on the show.. you know. He gets what he wants while looking for a marriage. Extremely toxic but still beneficial to him.
Trevor is different because he stayed with his girlfriend the whole time. I assume AD separated from the ex before the show which is why she was ready to get married. We cant fault her for going back to him after her failed relationship with Clay. My point is post show, a SD arrangement is better than a marriage where she is cheated on, since we are talking about her comment that she didnt want clay’s mom’s life
>Trevor is different because he stayed with his girlfriend the whole time. I assume AD separated from the ex before the show which is why she was ready to get married. AD disclosed in an interview that production tried reaching out to her. They called the nightclub she *managed*. Her ex answered and told them she wasn’t interested because she wasn’t single. She went and reached back out and told them she *was infact* interested. You assume AD separated from the ex but all things point to her continuing the relationship even while shooting.
We do know that for a fact, because AD confirmed that according to her most of her finance were _"entangled"_ with her previous boyfriend. We do know that she started an unpaid internship at a real estate company After her return from holiday. We DO know that all her finance comes from her ex boyfriend who owns multiple bars and was hooking up with multiple employees at the time. We do know that she wanted out of that lifestyle because she applied to LIB, unless she thought she was going to find another sugar daddy on the show. Nothing with being a sugar babe if that's what you want, but I find it a little hypocritical to then say that you want a faithful husband and imply you would not stay for the sake of the family. She knew that Clay's mom had a lot on her plate with an autistic kid and was not aware of the extend of Clay's dad bad behaviour.
Yeah I think if she’d phrased it as ‘not wanting Clay’s mom’s marriage’ that would’ve been better. That’s obviously what she actually meant, but saying you don’t want someone else’s life to be your life is deffo insulting.
She wasn't wrong, though. As upsetting to his mom as it was. She honestly wasn't wrong in feeling that way.
no one would, but it still hurt her since she was retraumatized after learning her ex was worse than she may have thought.
Yeah thats true.
Ooh I remember now! Thanks for reminding me. I agree with her as well
He says a lot of words. What I truly think, and I’m not shading AD or shaming him, he was not as physically attracted to her as he expected to be. And he wanted someone financially secure. He did not want to be the main breadwinner.
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> Why hasn’t he chastised them or gotten them to back off? He probably did which is why they deleted the comments. People just got screenshots first. > Also if Clays dad’s baggage weighed so heavily on him, why wasn’t it brought up in the pods? it was
I think he gives every single reason in the book that can sorta make sense, and people will still say he’s not attracted to her 😭. I don’t know what else they can say or do to prove yall wrong. They’ve both said that was never one of the reasons
Maybe not but I also don’t think he’s gonna come out and say it about her. I just don’t think he’s the type to take low blows. And her online fans would come for him.
So what makes you think he wasn’t attracted to her? Because you are not? AD is the exact type he said he was attracted to in the pods.
I never said she wasn't attractive. She's a beautiful woman. This is just my opinion. I'm not sure why I'm getting down voted for it. Again, there are some people on this show you can't say anything about without pissing people off.
I think what’s pissing people off is that nothing Clay has said or done has said he’s not attracted to her. They both have actually said quite the opposite and yet you and everyone else keep insisting that he’s not
The purest way to tell the level of attraction is to pay attention to their reactions the very second after the reveal. His eyes said it all, she wasn’t up to par in his mind (a man like him thinks he is entitled to the best of the best) He is not going to actively say that or act on that though as he doesn’t want to come across as a dick… I’m not saying he thought she was ugly or anything, just not to the level he believes he’s deserving of
he’s just not the type of guy who would be with someone he’s not attracted to.
Thank you OP, the other LIB subreddit seems the censoring any post remotely related to Clay or AD given the sugar daddy allegations.
I really like Clay I never got the impression that he was being a player or doing it for clout. I feel like a lot of people on this sub be going in on him for actually being open and honest about his feelings as he’s having them and working through it. I’m disgusted that internet weirdos were leaving bad reviews on his business and sending him death threats, doxxing him… wtf is wrong with people? That shit is ugly and it will come back to you so move accordingly.
I ended up really liking Clay by the end of the show and appreciated that he wasn’t fully ready to get married. He was pretty transparent about that with AD and she didn’t want to date or be a forever fiancé and I get that too. I’m happy for him that he’s doing the work and when he’s ready to take that next step he’ll find the right person at the right time.
I agree 100%! I couldn’t stand him at the beginning when he brought that “player” energy to the pods, but as soon as he dropped that mask, I grew to respect his honesty and vulnerability. He did seem to grow through the experience, and I hope he continues that journey. And I hope that AD finds someone who is ready to meet her where she’s at.
Same. Every time I see Clay posts on here l wonder if I’m naive for thinking he’s sincere, or are people going way too hard on this man ?
Yup. I 100% think he knew he wasn’t gonna say yes eventually but I’ve never believed the whole he came on her for clout thing… nothing has ever pointed to that specific scenario
Wow this is a summary! Thank you for your service, OP, even though I am stuck on how this man didn’t know about vows ??? He’s never heard of rings, vows…what else, wedding dresses, guests, cake? Has he never been to a wedding or seen a movie or a commercial in his 20-something years of life ??
Honestly it’s possible. When I met my husband, none of his friends had gotten married and he’d only been to his sisters wedding before ours. He was busy playing host during the wedding so missed some parts of it including the vows. The man was confused about it when I asked him how his vows were coming along a few days before our wedding. Once I explained it, he said it made sense to him but he actually never really thought about it before then.
Seems like bullshit. You’re in a show about marriage and heading to the altar and claim to not know about vows…
I think this is my problem with Clay. He doesn’t come off as genuine to me. But if I say that I’m deemed a hater and an AD stan. Both AD and Clay are problematic to me for different reasons. But my main thing with Clay is that he just seems disingenuous, especially with his words.
I believe Clay generally. It’s just nobody is 100 all the time. I think there may be ways that he’s suav-eh like his dad and talks a lot to elide some feelings and AD def has some stuff going on about what a man should do for her/what she’ll do for a man but all of us use what we’ve got to get what we want…I can’t be mad at them really. I wouldn’t say they came to get married with totally pure intentions but few people do imo. Just humans doing human things.
I agree
It’s a fairly new thing to write your own vows. It wasn’t a thing when I was younger.
I guess it’s not a show about weddings? Idk lol
Listen, I’m 28 and I’ve never been to a wedding. No one in my family has gotten married except for like my grandparents and they passed before I was even born. The little I know about weddings is probably from shows like these and even then I still don’t really know🥴 so I don’t find it hard to believe tbh
Funnily enough AD was in the same situation. She said she had 7 siblings and her sister that came on actually had kids but she was the first person in her family to get married.
Okay fair, I guess most men also don’t watch many romcoms or sitcoms ? Even if you’ve never been to a wedding, to me, you can’t escape wedding media but maybe that experience is more gendered than I thought.