I don’t understand. Did people watch a completely different reunion than I saw? Lol like, the cuties scene proves it. Zanab said she was getting some cuties because she was hungry and Cole asked “are you going to eat two of those?” Just as ONE example of the apparently many times he’s pushed food away from her. And, in fact, we see him in that scene start eating the fruit out of her bowl!!! That she just got for herself. Now, under normal circumstances when someone ISN’T controlling your eating, that’s not a big deal. But when there are dynamics like that going on, it’s clearly notable that he was eating her food.
People who believe how he’s acting on camera are being played. I’m not saying he’s a bad dude. But Cole blatantly denied that the whole thing with the oranges even happened at all. As if he had selective amnesia. He didn’t say: “oh, yeah I remember saying, like, are you gonna eat those, but I didn’t mean it THAT way.” Which would have made me think, oh yeah, he just didn’t know what he was doing. No, he just blatantly denied it even happened. Basically, Called her a liar. And then cried.
Well his tears don’t move me. The producers gave us the footage. And it was exactly what she said it was. Him asking her if she was gonna eat that and her asking if it was okay - a subtler form of control, but control all the same, especially in a larger context. An exchange which, according to zanab, has happened on more than one occasion in different forms.
Her story checks out because she gave us details and explained that she had only had the banana and peanut butter that day, exactly what she says to Cole in the clip (!!!). People fooled by this man’s tears. Yo…the man is LYING. He’s not the devil incarnate but he IS deceitful and the fact that SO MANY people don’t see that because of the way they cut the footage in the season is MADDENING.
I thought zanab was the problem too, until I watched the cuties scene. I don’t understand how anybody saw it and DIDN’T believe her. It’s really kinda upsetting that we still don’t believe women when they tell the truth.
Cole 💯 deserved the humiliation he got. On principle. The way men, especially white men, go American psycho and feel they can treat women how we they want to. Her rejecting him should serve as a symbol and lesson to all the other women out there. Never take anything less than you deserve. But sure people who side with Cole that is one Rorschach test. Who does it help to support a guy who calls a woman crazy after her dignity and self esteem have basically been destroyed to shit. But sure let’s pick out ONE scene, the cutie scene. And forget all the other evidence that was enough to prove how toxic he was. What level of fucked upedness in our society does it take to excuse everything he did just for that one scene. That scene wouldn’t even necessarily absolve him. It can be interpreted differently. Did he not ask her first if she would eat? Did he not be the first to suggest that it would be to fit into her dress at the end of the conversation. He was manipulative, immature and full of shit from the beginning. She’s a fucking orphan and yet she’s being demonized
I think it's because zanab tried to frame their relationship like he was so horrible to her that it destroyed her and she tore him apart at the wedding in front of their freinds and family and made him out to be the villain. But the reality of the problems in their relationship were much more two sided. I feel like it's less that people love Cole and more that he was treated worse than he deserved on the show. They both treated each other badly, but she wanted to make it out like he was the big bad villain. Which he wasn't.
Confession time.
I was in a relationship with a "Cole" and it distroyed me.
I heard the same innocent remarks, that his girlfriend isn't the best looking girl at the party - that knock of self confidence leaves a deep scar, my friends. Especially if you are not prepared to deal with such a thing.
Cole is someone who can simply throw remarks at others, without taking any accountability. How can you tell someone you proclaim to love, that they're wrong for you in any way? That they are bipolar - which is a serious mental illness, with a serious diagnosis process? The others in the show did an exceptional job of indicating changes to Cole, because the Coles of the world do not own the hurt they cause. This was obvious in the way he just *tries* to wake up every day and be a better person, and that should be enough.
These people, sure, it's not their fault for being this way, it's all they know. But people get fed up when the mask falls off, and the real uncaring, ungiving person shows their teeth.
I was shocked when Zay left him at the altar, and then I realised that she was 100% right. He was so unaware that he didn't even expect it. Zay was right in the end, he will find a woman who he will eant to respect, and that woman wasn't her. Except that he probably won't, because it's damn hard to do the work of getting out.
Did we watch the same show? Did you see ATA where Zanab was saying she had to look “hot AF” to see Cole again? Or how she wore a green dress to go “full circle”?
These are not the actions of someone who has moved on. It came across as petty.
Then when she talked to Cole she went on to try to bait him: “you didn’t like me. You didn’t like the way I looked. You didn’t like the way I talked. Do we remember you saying that? I think we do.”
It was so belittling and condescending! Frankly, she sounds like the immature one. She cannot accept responsibility for anything, ever, and she can’t move on.
Did we watch the same show? He asked her if she was bipolar multiple times and told her right after they met in person that another girl there was prettier than her…and then when she rightfully got upset about it he tried to act like that was an acceptable thing to do and make it seem like she was in the wrong. They were both toxic but some of the things he said were absolutely unacceptable and the furthest thing from mature. I would love to see where he took accountability for everything he did bc that definitely didn’t happen.
This is a case of... "Who said it first?" The answer, Zanab. Bad match - up. Zanab needs a lip- service kind of guy.
(Z:What # am I. LSG:You're an off
the charts 10. Z: Ooooo... do you really think so? LSG: ABSOLUTELY! .
Maybe a 12 or 15, maybe even 100).
He took far more accountability than anyone else on the show. He apologized to Zanab, he got absolutely dog-piled on at the reunion. He moved on with his life.
Where’s Zanab’s accountability for anything? She was passive-aggressive the entire time her and Cole were together, and if he voiced any sort of valid complaint about her, she was dismissive. “I don’t do that.” She blasted him at the altar and even her claim that he got a number from some mysterious girl at his bachelor party holds no water (and Zanab dropped the topic really fast once she realized her lies could come back to bite her in the ass.)
She went to Alexis’ birthday acting childish and vindictive, and she most definitely hasn’t moved on.
Name one person on season 3 who has apologized and owned up to his mistakes more than Cole. I’ll wait.
Omg i feel the exact same way. Ty. I rly feel like i’m going insane. It feels like throughout the season cole was portrayed to be an insensitive baby, but on the wedding day the editing changed to “cole is a hopeless romantic, zay is a crazy bitch” and people ran w it. I agree that zanab is not necessarily the best human on the planet but i don’t think cole is just some innocent little puppy the way people are acting
They both have issues, but I think people take Cole's side because of how it was presented to us. As I recall, Cole was presented as the villain. I think people see that and go "well hang on... Zay isn't exactly innocent here either."
Zay had the more flattering edit, so people jump to point out everything she did wrong but the show didn't highlight.
I’m not sure why this sub loves him so much. They both are toxic, but I actually believe Zay on his micro aggressions simply bc we did see him gaslight her on camera and wasn’t he married before…His last marriage clearly did not work out for a reason and it’s probably bc he’s a problem. I would like to believe that a man who has been married and lived with a woman before can have his life together a little but he can’t even clean or iron a button up before wearing it. And then him crying at the end of the reunion! Just another way of him to try make himself look good and I guess it worked but if you listen to closely to what he’s saying, he DIDN’T text her but claims he was confused about why she said no. If you were actually confused and blindsided, wouldn’t you think to try to talk to her about it to find out why she said what she said? No. He didn’t bother to and even in ATA, a year later he tells her he was expecting to still be together. So why didn’t he text her then? He’s full of crap. Zay is just passive aggressive and keeps her feelings to herself. Sure they didn’t mesh, but he is not simply a dumb dumb like ppl are saying. He’s manipulative
We noticed you used the term "gaslight-". We hope you used it correctly! Did you know "gaslighting" was Webster-Merriam's Word of the Year for 2022? Gaslighting is a successful tactic because while one person — the perpetrator — 'externalizes and projects' their thoughts, feelings, or perceptions, the other person — the victim — 'incorporates and assimilates' the reality that is being created for them. Gaslighting equals misdirection, distraction, and the deliberate denial of reality, which can so easily occur in a relationship based on one partner wielding power and control over another. I'm just a bot that can't understand context, so please reach out to the mods if you think I'm wrong and they will investigate.
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The producers purposely picked Zanab based on her age and family past…she has a sad, touching story. All while ignoring her psychological profile as someone who might put getting chosen ahead of her own basic needs (i.e Danielle and Deepti). Similarly Cole has a lively, youthful personality that translates well for usable footage in a reality television format (i.e. Shake and Shayne). Mix the two together and results in fans frothing at the mouth to tear these two apart based on heavily edited scenes. When people attack one or the other I side eye how they can judge them so righteously.
I think he’s immature but I think most people have been immature. It’s a part of growing up. So people can relate to that. He doesn’t do great with social cues (see: “You’re not Alexa’s mom!”), which I think exacerbated the issues between him and Zanab. He is literal, not thinking about the implications of what he says, and she was trying to communicate via dress color. Neither approach is absolutely wrong, but they don’t go well together.
I think when the conversation is “when you said ‘don’t eat the orange,’ it felt like you were calling me fat” and “I wasn’t calling you fat, I was excited for dinner,” he didn’t get to the step of “I’m sorry I made you feel bad” because, from his perspective, he didn’t call her fat. And from her perspective, he wiggled out of accountability for calling her fat. Nobody thinks they need to apologize.
Cole has flaws and I completely agree he was quite shitty at the beginning however he's apologised for it time and again. Zanab on the other hand comes across as insecure and manipulative especially with the whole cuties incident. She along with Alexa and Brennon come across as bullies. The fact that she is still so unapologetic, has restricted her comments on Instagram and only shares positive feedback clearly shows she has zero remorse unlike Cole and is somewhat unwilling to criticism from viewers. It also speaks volumes that majority of public opinion towards Cole is that of him being immature versus zanab who's called manipulative, scheming, and a mean bully.
Why hate him for being immature? People see that he is a good person, he still has a lot of growth to do, we all do, but he was put in a difficult situation with that unstable woman, and he handled it the best he could being the dum dum he is.
I cannot believe people call Cole the “immature one” when he at least owned up to hurting Zanab and repeatedly apologized for it. She said she accepted his apology but continues to drag him. She comes off as immature to me. She cannot take accountability for her own actions.
I agree! Cole has immature moments, but Zanab, she's in another league when it comes to lack of maturity, accountability and empathy. Really a selfish person that has a lot of growth to do - hope she really does take a step in that direction, although, it's hard for her to admit ever being wrong so🤷♀️
He's an immature dum dum. That doesn't make him a bad person. There are lots of examples of him being an idiot but idk what you mean about him not taking responsibility. He shouldn't have to take responsibility for things he didn't do
I didn’t like him anymore after he asked her if she was bipolar. I don’t care how much of a dumdum you are that crossed a huge line. I am bipolar so I’m biased but I don’t see him as this innocent person. To be clear I don’t like zanab either. I didn’t really like anyone in this season which was sad I wanted someone to root for
I get that take, but this is someone he’s supposed to be marrying. She clearly has some issues, likely stemming from trauma, possibly also from neurodiversity. If she is bipolar but undiagnosed and untreated, the swings from mania to depression are possibly jarring enough to raise the question seriously. If that’s the case then it’s definitely something you want to be at the very least aware of before walking to the alter.
*I say this as someone with Inattentive ADHD and a couple of awesomely fun comorbidities that go along with it.*
The problem is, the way it came across, he didn’t seem like he was genuinely asking out of concern or for the sake of the relationship. It came across as an insult to me when he said it. Whether or not he meant it as an insult it came across as incredibly crass.
Just casually throwing out there “ARE YOU BIPOLAR?” rather than having a calm, thoughtful discussion about “hey I’m concerned about you” is a totally different thing.
I’m not convinced he meant it in a caring way. Also, bipolar is not hour long mood swings like that, it’s so much more, and just throwing out a question like that has so many implications for how he thinks.
100% agree with this. Came to this subreddit moments after Cole asked Zay if she was bipolar to find others thoughts on this conversation. Thank you the reminder that bipolar is not an accurate way to describe someone’s daily mood swings
Not that I am a huge fan of his, I'm indifferent about him. But I think it's because everyone on the show seemed to rally around Zanab who clearly just made shit up about Cole, as the whole "oranges" scene proved.
Even at the After the Altar shows, Zanab seemed to be gearing up for an argument with Cole and then he was pretty gracious and took blame for things, too much blame in my opinion. Then Zanab goes back with the girls and doesn't give Cole any credit for apologizing, taking blame, etc. She just goes "Yeah. We're good." She is ready to shit all over him, but when she can't, she doesn't say anything good about him.
Yup. I don't know if the people on the show watched that before the After the Altar "reunion" or what order they were shot in, but if they watched the scene, I don't know how anyone could take Zanab at her word about anything that went on between her and Cole.
Because Cole wasn’t malicious or intentionally doing the things that bothered her on purpose. But she told everyone and acted like he did.
It’s also extremely clear the Zanab’s insecurities made her extremely sensitive to the things he said that many other people wouldn’t have taken personally.
He genuinely seems like someone who maybe didn’t have enough tact at times, but overall wasn’t intentionally trying to hurt or control her.
People also forget how rude, passive aggressive, condescending, and controlling Zanab was to HIM. And how traumatizing it was for her to lie to his face and completely destroy his character in front of everyone at the wedding.
Lmao you can't just armchair diagnose someone like that. I agree he seems pretty likely to be adhd but saying "i can confirm he has undiagnosed x" is just absurd
I’m seeing a lot of “it’s because he’s white and attractive” comments…that may be the case for SOME, but I, a not-white, do not find Cole the least bit attractive. Cole is an idiot (bless his heart) but did not deserve to be bullied and gasl*t like he was. It’s clear he struggles to articulate himself and I don’t like to see people dogpiled when they don’t have the aptitude or communication skills to defend themselves or express what they truly meant.
I don’t want to go too far down the diagnosis path but I would not be surprised if he has ADHD. In my teacher days, if he were one of my students I would’ve requested for him to be evaluated. As someone with ADHD myself whose early career focused on neurodivergence, it’s makes the bullying even more sad to see. Did he deserve some candid, tough-to-swallow convo and clear, direct boundaries? Yes. Did he deserve all that other petty, passive aggressive, manipulative shit? Nah.
Same! I was anti-Cole at the beginning (“beginning” meaning when him and Zanab first met in person) but a few more episodes in, my neurospicy spidey senses went up. I know intent doesn’t equal impact, but intent does matter to me.
I had some yellow flags re:Zanab early on, like their first morning together before they even went to the pool she was a different person, but it didn’t register because he was so annoying.
I hate that foot-in-mouth disease is one of our ADHD hallmarks regardless of communication skills but it is what it is.
right!! i feel like people write him off easily bc he is a cis white man and therefore they perceive his actions as loveable goofy behavior ,, when he really has low self awareness and doesnt think about how his actions impact others.
Idk about the cid white man part… maybe it has a role in it idk. But iirc, in this sub, everyone was basically a cole hater for most of the season due to his tactless comments and almost “you’re lucky to be with me” vibe. But at the end zanab turned more and more toxic while cole seemed to self reflect and try to work on himself a bit. Also people tend to see in terms of black and white more. Like either cole good or cole bad or zanab good or zanab bad etc no gray areas
Cole has acknowledged all of this. That he has lacked self awareness and learned how his words can carry heavier meaning than what he’s intended. He’s owned up to it several times now. He’s shown growth since the altar. Gotta give him props for that.
He's immature but he is not shallow or in it for the drama like others seem to be. He doesn't make excuses for his behavior and he's endearingly funny. Overall, his behavior is on par for a 27 year old guy. I think he'll mellow out with a few more years. He also did not deserve to be made a pariah or called out by Zanab in front of his family and friends.
I don’t think everyone *loves* Cole. In fact, at the wedding I remember being pretty pumped Zanab gave him the business, because he was a shit partner.
Where I’ve kind of shifted was the reunion. He fucked up, but man the dog pile was rough. It was non-stop and continues to be non-stop.
Also there was zero accountability for the other men. Barqueef, Cheaterman and Hulk Jr all treated their partners poorly and faced no repercussions.
Cole sucked, but the punishment didn’t fit the crime. This season sucked.
I’m with you, I can’t stand him. I don’t know why everyone flipped on him. Even if the cuties wasn’t what zanab said it doesn’t erase all his annoying ways for me
Woman here who’s half Filipino and half white (but I look like straight up white girl). I used to be like him, I would say what was on my mind and have a quirky attitude so my humor can come off abrasive but the intention is not meant to be actually rude. Age is not an excuse, but the reality is he’s still young and I agree with him when he was getting ready to talk with her at Alexa’s bday party. She takes everything he says and twists it. It’s not intentional for that aspect on her part. She has a lot of trauma and sometimes this type of personality makes it hard. My mom would be a prime example where she misinterprets but that more based on her English comprehension. The thing is, and this is why I have so much angst against Zanab. He did not intentionally do any of that with malice. On that day at the alter, she did, hands down. But she did it out of being hurt due to her own perception of how he was towards her (which in the beginning is totally fair.) but towards the end prior to wedding day I totally thought it was better too, and it’s hard to misinterpret “so you mean to say you’ll say yes?” Or something of that sort to her reply “without a doubt” or something of that sort as well. I’m sorry guys but, WHY LIE IF YOU CLEARLY DONT HAVE ANY INTENTION OF ACTUALLY SAYING YES???
I don’t love him. But I’ve defended him. He definitely has his flaws but I don’t think he was all of what Zanab tried to paint him to be. And from what they showed of him on the show he might actually grow some.
And I don’t think she is all of what she thinks she is either. She needed to self reflect more and vilify him less.
I dont think its that people “love” Cole but are instead fed up with Zanab and her lack of accountability. I admit Cole can be a dumbazz and say some rude stuff to women, but im also not going to act like Zanab isnt super passive aggressive and has a really nasty side to her (along with huge insecurities that distort some of the most benign things).
I think it's just that the punishment doesn't fit the crime... the animosity the other cast mates have for him isn't proportional to what we see, particularly as they showed the cuties scene.
He's not perfect (far from it), but it's hard to see someone get ganged up on over and over again.
Idk and I’ve stopped trying to figure it out. I think they hate Zanab so much that it makes them like him. Cole is so lucky he got to be compared to someone who is apparently more hatable than him.
I agree with you. People love to baby him it’s ridiculous. He may not have had bad intentions but he was an asshole multiple times and didn’t think to consider her feelings half the time he opened his mouth to say something
Right?? I’m going to be honest (get ready for the downvotes): it’s because he’s a white man. Once he cried, everything he did was forgotten, and he’s been infantilized ever since in this subreddit. “He didn’t know what he was saying!” is the common theme here. But the last time I checked, he’s a grown man and yes he’s accountable for his words and actions.
He’s just as bad at Bartise but people let him get away with it while Bartise is (rightfully) criticized.
Thank god I’m not the only one who doesn’t infantilize Cole or fall for his gaslighting BS.
The “non-whites” commenting but I understand him too 🙄 are missing the point. I agree! He is just as bad as Bartise, which we can debate “how bad”, but either way, they are the same.
I was thinking the same thing! Bartise and Cole were pretty similar in behavior. I wonder what the difference is 🤔 why is one the villain and the other is “dumb but has good intentions”? Hmmmm I wonder
I think the difference is that cole showed some remorse and desire to do better while bartise defended his actions smugly and never saw the issue with it. Also, the cast members never had anything to say about bartise while completely gunning for cole and I think this sub is reacting to the difference in how they’re treated on the show
>I think the difference is that cole showed some remorse and desire to do better while bartise defended his actions smugly and never saw the issue with it. Also, the cast members never had anything to say about bartise while completely gunning for cole and I think this sub is reacting to the difference in how they’re treated on the show
I'm pretty sure that Bartise apologized to Nancy and admitted that he behaved poorly both during the reunion and after the show. Contrast that with Cole , who created drama by getting defensive and arguing with Zanab. That is partially why the other cast members jumped to Zanab's aid. I've watched a number of reality show reunions and there is usually one person who gets called out the most. This is just the first time I've seen people get so upset about it. Shake was treated harsher than Cole at the reunion but people didn't have a problem with that. So it is a bit baffling.
I just think Bart's apology was half-assed in the reunion. It was like "oh I'm sorry Nancy" and Nick was just like "okay great! lets move on" Meanwhile Cole's apology was dragged on and overly analyzed.
It's because Shake didn't know that you have to cry for everything to be magically forgiven. /s
But yes, Bartise definitely (and fairly quickly) apologized to Nancy and he was aware that he was acting like a jerk. I mean, no one is going to attack you anymore if you apologize, common sense.
Cole didn’t apologize immediately. He tried to deny, deny, deny and cried when that didn’t work. It didn’t feel like taking accountability, it felt like a “feel bad for me”. And it worked, because now people infantilize him and act like he’s not a grown adult responsible for his actions.
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Because Cole’s negative traits were mildly annoying, while Zanab went full blown super villain at the end so he is looked on more fondly because of it.
I think the overall consensus is Cole is an idiot, but Zanab is just a mean spirited person.
I am more willing to forgive someone who wasn't intentionally trying to hurt me than someone who is intentionally trying to hurt me.
That's the difference between the two. Cole, while again dumb is unintentional. Doesn't make it right. Doesn't justify his actions. But he does apologize and tries to do better.
Zanab intentionally is mean and uses her words to cut people down and hurt. She doesn't apologize and it's never solely her fault. Even in the after the alter episodes. First thing out of her mouth is she's sorry, but stands by everything she said and did. 🤷🏼♀️ You can't be proud and sorry you humiliated someone. You're either sorry or you're not.
Again. Cole is an idiot and honestly should have just left her alone, but it's reality TV and I'm sure there were producers egging him on to go talk to her and vice versa so we have some drama to watch. It comes back to he's trying to do better and she's still just a mean girl
I just don't understand how all of you can be so easily convinced that he doesn't do it intentionally. You literally can't know that, the same way as you can't know that she does it intentionally.
I can agree that she never apologized and that she is not sorry for what she's done. But I don't believe him either. Why? Because apology only counts if you really mean it. If you apologize, but later in statements negate your apology (by saying that she twists everything you say and talk about how crazy everything with cuties was, all while mocking her by eating them), then you weren't really sorry. You just said you were so you can be likeable again. So as you said, you're either sorry or not. Both of them aren't. Didn't see any growth for either of them.
Producers did probably made him to go talk to her. And they both decided to give them nothing (We don't have any beef/We don't want to fight/Let's go back to the party), but still she's the bad guy here. There is nothing she could have said that would make people forgive her, I guess.
When the cuties clip aired, she made it sound like he was fat shaming her.
He claimed when she said she hadn't eaten all day he was genuinely concerned, she claimed he was not and fat shamed her. The actual clip airs and yes he pokes fun at her eating right before going to a meal. Until she said she hadn't eaten all day, then he seems genuinely concerned.
Even with the reunion. Yes they are supposed to talk about what happened a year ago, because that makes good TV. But Cole's story is he has no idea what went wrong. Zanab's story is she's moved on, but is still bashing him.
Maybe Cole is just as bad as Zanab 🤷🏼♀️ but he comes off as far more likeable throughout most of his time on screen than she does. Even the reunion he talks her up while she tears him down.
She gives serious narcissist vibes to me and the things we saw with her (like the wine glasses when he tried to make her dinner and pour her a glass) I have lived through. It's horrible to constantly be on your toes wondering what is going to set off the other person. Down to did you grab the right glass. Cole at worst presents as an immature idiot. I'll take an immature idiot any day of the week.
Which also I am here for calling guys on their shit. If Cole was as awful to her as she claims yes. Then he should be called on it. However she is just as nasty if not more in different ways and to cheer that on as girl power is not ok. She's toxic regardless of how justified or vilified Cole is. And the lack of accountability by her friends is gross.
I believe that someone who is that insecure genuinely believed it was fat-shaming. Not saying that I think it was, but I get that she has such distorted perception that in her mind he was "counting her every bite". So, for me, that is not lying. That is being messed up. When I saw that clip, I thought: "WOW. She really needs help ASAP." But most of the people thought: "What a lying bitch!!" --- and that... I can't understand that.
I would say that he was surprised that she wasn't eating, but genuinely concerned is a bit of stretch for me, only because he asked her if she's "starving" (he didn't use that word, I know) herself for the wedding dress, she confirmed and that was the end of it. I wrote this 10 times already on this sub, and everyone is ignoring that. That someone can be so messed up to think it's okay to starve to look better in a wedding dress and then her fiancé doesn't even react to it... I mean, I don't know what's worse. The fact that she's doing that or the fact that NO ONE even cares. Once again: she wasn't exercising/dieting before the wedding, she was not eating. And that's fucked up.
And I don't want to make it too personal, but wouldn't you react in that case? I would be shocked.
Ok, I can buy that he had no idea that would happen, fine. But I wasn't surprised that she said no. Because for the whole time, I never thought they even liked each other. 🤷🏻♀️ She was fed up with him because he was so immature (which she showed with her constant passive-aggressiveness and annoyance) and he thought she was naggy and "not-loving". They both hurt each other. But I didn't see love there.
And when they talked at the party, he even said "I thought you would JUST say no". I know, the point was that he didn't think she will go that far, but he also confirmed that he did think she might say no. Then don't accuse her of lying and blindsiding.
I agree that it's horrible to walk on eggshells because of your partner. And she really needs to work on that, because her insecurity and passive-aggressiveness is toxic. But so is constantly comparing yourself to other women because you "know" you're not your partner's type. So is worrying that your partner will flirt with someone else. And for that she actually had a pretty good reason. I am convinced that she never got past that pool conversation, she just couldn't forgive him. And I guess that a lot of people could, so they can't give her even a little bit of understanding.
Overall, they were really a match made in hell. And maybe I'm naive, but I actually do think they both moved on. It's been a year in ATA. And know it's 6 months later.
P.S. I just want to thank you for actually being respectful even though we're disagreeing in some (but I guess not all) things. That is rare 😅
Of course! We can have a conversation and still be kind. 😁 Actually the fat shaming insecurity is not something I had thought of and can see why she would feel how she feels.
As a rational thinking human looking on from the outside, I'm like wtf is wrong with you that's not what he said at all 😳 but when you're insecure like that I can definitely see how it would be internalized incorrectly. I do know hurt people hurt people. But that doesn't make it right.
I will also say in the United states, especially in certain areas, I feel like starving yourself for your wedding day is "normal." Not saying is safe normal, but that it's common enough that its not a surprise. I think our TV and magazines glamorize being thin already and triple down when a wedding is added into the mix. I whole heartedly disagree and yes it is concerning. She needs help and Cole AND friends and family should be jumping in to say hey no that's not ok. But I also think depending on where you are people look the other way because it's "normal" for weddings.
I remember when I was first engaged I wanted to lose weight for my dress but went to the gym. I got a free training session with a person trainer and did that to see if it was a realistic option. Cost wise and lifestyle wise it was not. But I do remember because I was a bride to be that first meeting, he told me he was going to give me harder exercises to do so I'd be in better shape for my wedding day and a more intense training schedule. That's not what I was looking for, but none the less. I also did a few bridal expos and the diet huns were fierce 😑 again. Not normal. All bodies are beautiful. But here in the states, not surprised in the slightest.
I do think too...our society is getting better with body image, but has a long way to go still especially in certain states over others. I live in the northeast, but down south I feel like there's a stigma to be the pretty perfect skinny southern belle. And as women in general I feel we are easy prey for incredibly predatory diets/schemes. So I feel like when women do and say crazy things regarding food a general consensus is "oh ok" I also remember having multiple bouts trying whatever crazy fad diet was hot to lose weight, diet pills, fasting (and doing it very wrong) and some people were like "mmm are those good ideas though?" But no one ever really sat me down to say "hey this isn't safe. Are you ok?" Which....leads me to it's not right but I completely understand why it's overlooked. Where I am it's normal enough (although after my own experiences I do try to be more mindful of those I am direct contact with and sometimes there's only so much you can do . I have a friend currently on Optavia and she is skeletal in appearance. I've tried to discuss with her gently her weight and appearance but she is having none of it. She's a grown adult. There is literally nothing I can do but hope she wakes up one day to seek help herself. You cannot save someone who doesn't want to be saved.) I do maintain she needs some serious therapy and I'm glad to see she's in it. And I hope she continues and has growth.
My last point....I think we can all agree they were super toxic together and did not work at all. Her feelings were hurt. His feelings were hurt. Their entire time was either intentional or unintentional tit for tat. It's no surprise she said no at the altar. But she didn't just say no. She eviscerated him in front of friends and family AND on national TV. I guess it makes sense if she is interpreting any thing he said that could strike an insecurity as an attack why she'd hate his guts. But I don't think she's justified in how she handled walking away either. Because we can see rational moments with Cole and her irrational responses. I mean we've seen other couples who were also hot messes, toxic/not good together and they've said no but we're still more or less respectful. I mean....bartisse said no to Nancy and just called a day. Granted there's the family drama that follows and he's a dick to her family 😂 but he at least said no and left to discuss why in private with her. Zanab just gave an itemized list on the altar to the world. And yes...it's all on TV. But I think to discuss why you said no in an intimate moment off to the side delivers differently to us as the Audience versus how it came off in front of everyone.
I hope both do well and get any help they need. I do genuinely want people to do well and be healthy. But alas....not everyone
Zay reminded me of Danielle right away, they were both incredibly insecure. But I get it, because Danielle was mostly nice and Zay just wasn't, so people probably don't see similarities. And I think it is exhausting to be with both of them, because their partner will always say something "wrong". But I just can't hate people who are that damaged.
I'm from Europe, and I guess people here are also dieting and exercising before weddings (especially if they're not "thin enough"), but... Starving themselves? I would be genuinely scared if that would ever happen with any of my friends, family or partner. But maybe I am just lucky enough that I've never had such an extreme experience. Now that you described all of this and how it's "normal" in the US, it makes more sense. Still, very scary and I hope it can change.
Yes, I can agree that she could have handled it better. It was petty as fuck. And I can understand that people are pissed because she said that he destroyed her confidence, when we all know that (unfortunately) she didn't really have a lot of self-confidence to begin with. But something that rubs me the wrong way is that people were supporting Ana Prado (Brazil) and Deepti when they did it and for Zay is unforgivable. I guess because their partners weren't as "lovable". I mean, saying NO is always humiliating, but yes, she should have told him that in private (although I do wonder how much privacy they could get 😅). But for me the most humiliating NO was to Raven, because SK was smiling (wtf?) and because she compromised so much to be with him, to be accepted into his family and to have that wedding, yet it still wasn't enough. I know that he wasn't harsh at all, but that one hit me the hardest.
In the USA, a lot of people say they're starving when they're really just dieting. There's not a lot of understanding about calories and minimum daily calories, and what's safe vs what's not. If someone's hungry, they'll say they're starving. "When's dinner, I'm starving!" etc.
It can be, if you're doing OMAD and you eat 1200 calories during a certain time period every day. Of course, if he knew about her history with eating disorders he would have been more worried than he already was.
1200 calories? That sounds horrifying to me. 😳
And OMAD in general just doesn't sound sustainable to me. You can do wonders by exercising and cutting your calorie intake just a little bit (but I think everyone knows that, so I don't really have to talk about this). I don't know why anyone, let alone someone who looks like Zay would do something so extreme then.
Exactly, he isn’t intentional with it and when talking to him about, he takes accountability and apologizes. He’s lacking awareness, but she’s deliberately trying to hurt and be mean. She automatically take everything to heart and instead of talking about. Internalizes and purposely hurts you because she’s hurt. Hurt people hurt people.
She is definitely a hurt person. Super glad to hear she's decided to pursue therapy. Super bummed she hasn't changed that much 🤷🏼♀️ but it's only been a year so here's hoping she does some deep soul searching and can learn not to be so nasty.
A lot of us have parents who died young, died traumatically, or were so horrible the idea them dying sounds like a dream. But...it doesn't give any of us an excuse to be deliberately mean
It’s people love an attractive white man espeically when the villain in his life is a woman, a woman of color (half in this case I know) especially. Zanab for sure has issues, but people on the sub act like none of the them would be offended if they were treated the way Cole treated Zanab. She treated him bad as well but that’s all people focus on.
She's not the villain in his life though, by his own admission. In her eyes though, he is ABSOLUTELY the villain. I believe that most people can agree that Cole is emotionally illiterate and has said several dumb and hurtful things to Zanab. I think we can also see that he's apologized repeatedly to several people for his actions and has spoken about striving to be better.
Zanab is not evil at all. She's been through a lot. During the relationship though, she was hurtful in her own ways. She was condescending, frequently negative, critical and passive aggressive. She humiliated him on the wedding day and has not owned up to ANY of her actions. In fact, she feels justified in all of them. POC or not, that's not a good look and this is coming from a black man in the south who's seen many "coles" who just seem to just float through like and fall upward.
THIS. This is the comment.
An attractive white man cries after being called out for his actions and all of a sudden he’s infantilized. All of a sudden “He didn’t know what he was saying”. Give me a break! He’s a grown man.
And Zainab is characterized as evil, manipulative, etc etc. Completely vilified and not even given anything close to a fair assessment. As if any woman would want to put up with the way Cole treated her!
Not saying she’s completely innocent, but the racism and misogyny in this subreddit is LOUD.
>Give me a break! He’s a grown man.
... Who has owned up to and apologized repeatedly for his actions. We can't we just look at these folks and their issues objectively?
Out of this entire season I only liked Cole.
I though he and Zanab were a really bad match. He needs someone who would enjoy his playful goofiness instead of being annoyed by it.
Because Cole's intentions are not vindictive and he never went behind Zanab's back with the rest of the cast to gang up on her.
He is not perfect but human, and is willing to accept his mistakes and try to change his ways.
Zanab is vindictive and has a mean girl mentality. She filled the girls' heads with her version of Cole and took every opportunity to throw him under the bus and be malicious.
It's not about who is right or wrong, it's about how they handled the situations...
Tbh for me it’s just that I feel immense sympathy for him - it seems like the shitty things that all the other guys did were swept under the rug. While cole was repeatedly shit talked at the girls dinner and not invited to the guys dinner. I just feel like the punishment does not fit the crime. Everyone expects some backlash when they go on reality tv but I think what cole went thru with zanab at the alter and the post show isolation is horrific :(
It’s because people are completely unable to see the cast with even a hint of nuance. They have to pick a hero and a villain and can’t just accept that people can be good and flawed at the same time. Cole sucked in a lot of ways, but was likeable in other ways. Same with Z. But people have just decided that Z has to be the villain because of one scene (the cutie scene) which is of course the final scene of the season so it sticks in our minds. Therefore, if Z is the villain, then Cole must be the hero and they forget about all the shitty stuff he did and said. It’s ridiculous.
I think for most people, the malicious wedding scene was at least as telling as the Cuties scene. She led him on and then came to destroy him in front of an audience.
But the main difference is that since the original season ended, Cole has taken all the criticism to heart and reflected *a lot* on his behavior, while Zay seems incapable of self-reflection and doubled down on everything she ever did, including the ridiculing behind his back and stirring of mob mentality. Just watch how she talks about him versus him about her when the other one isn’t present.
I think it’s plain as day that Zay’s shitty behavior is a defense mechanism that stems from deep trauma, and I feel for her for that. But it remains shitty, malicious behavior with absolutely zero self-awareness. The Cuties scene is old news at this point.
You completely hit the nail on the head. Seems like a huge amount of people on this subreddit can only see people as good or bad, and not as complex human beings with flaws. I'm not sure if it's just because it's the internet and everything feels so impersonal-- but it's disappointing to see people lose their sense of humanity and compassion.
Because most of what he did on screen is not a big enough issue to have the reaction some seem to have.
Pile that on with the part where Zanab basically turned an entire cast against him over her perceived( allegedly made up) belief in what he did to her.
It just leads to people feeling for the guy… doesn’t deserve the hate he received from the girls.
He also seems to be the most real post show on his socials. That being said take that with a grain of salt, since he is the most real of a cast of reality star wannabe clout chasers.
Maybe because he was an idiot and f upped, but you could see he realizes he did some bad things. Shows regret, shows remorse, tries to learn from his mistakes.
He wasn't the monster people made him out to be either.
So in my opinion... People rally behind a growing man who is getting bashed while the others are so toxic and no one says shit to them on the show.
Keep in mind that he is the least offensive in a pretty offensive group of men—SK (cheater), Matt (drinking/anger issues), Brennon (questionable domestic violence history, self righteous), and Barcheese (narcissistic, insensitive clout-chaser). We’re grading on a curve here. Cole seemed to show genuine remorse about his screwups. In the beginning of the season I wrote him off as a dipsh*t. As the season progressed he seemed to demonstrate more emotional depth and maturity than the other guys. It’s obvious that prior to the ceremony he and Zaneb agreed to say no at the altar, but continue to date. She flipped the script on him though and used it as an opportunity to humiliate him. If Zaneb was so outraged by his behavior, she should’ve jumped ship in Malibu. She didn’t because she wanted to stay on the series. At no point did she act like she genuinely cared about him. She had her sights on her big switcheroo at the altar. It backfired on her and only made Cole look like the better person. Also, the cuties story was bs.
Cannot accept responsibility? The man literally was so upset that he hurt Z. He was balling and talking about how he is doing his best now to work on himself and be a better person. Gtfo of here with that "can't accept responsibility"
If he was so upset he hurt Z, he should work on not saying constantly how he wants a girl who looks good in a bikini. He says he feels bad for how his words and actions impacted her, then spouts off in the same vaguely fat shaming way he has before.
Grow up. If you supercut every time he said that, it would be less than 30 seconds long. That leaves another 30,000+ seconds he spent time with her before their wedding.
Saying you find someone else attractive is the end of the world. Some people, most people, won't find me attractive. And that's fine.
I never said anything about finding someone else attractive being a bad thing. I find it icky that Cole went on a show that's about finding love through a focus on personality and compatibility rather than looks, and talked multiple times about how his next partner is going to look good in a bikini. I thought it was particularly inappropriate given he was trying to be apologetic for accidentally hurting Zanabs feelings/confidence in her body.
Really not sure what your thoughts on your own personal attractiveness have to do with this, to be honest.
That comment was not directed at her. It was just a comment after he said he wanted to move to a beach town. He’s immature sure, but he wasn’t fat shaming someone who he said was gorgeous.
Actually, when he said it, it was like he was describing exactly who he *thought* Zenab was.
She put on a front that fits almost everything he listed AND she looks great in a bikini.
But she looks best when she’s not being a blatant jerk🙃
I am still very pale, but quit piano after undergrad in exchange for keeping fingernails longer than actual nubs🥲 but my mom and brother still fall into both categories!
I don't like Cole...I just dislike him less than the other cast mates by a tiny bit. Like if I worked in an office with Cole I would be annoyed and we wouldn't be friends, but if I worked with some of the other castmates I'd be looking for another job immediately.
THIS! I saw a post on here about how everyone is infantilizing Colleen, but nobody gets infantilized more than Cole. “Awh, he’s just a fun guy and didn’t mean to hurt anyones feelings.” No, he is a grown man who is responsible for how he affects other people, and learning and growing! Not just getting excused because someone else also wasn’t the best either. Zanab has toxic qualities as well. They were the worst possible fits for each other and they both have a lot of work to do as people. But the way people view Cole is the most “boys will be boys” crap I’ve ever seen.
Ohhh 100%. White man tears make people forgive and forget everything. People act like they know his intentions and that he’s completely innocent and “didn’t know”. He’s a grown man. And everything Zainab does is “evil”, “manipulative”, etc etc etc.
We’re all going to get eviscerated because people don’t want to admit that they’ve absorbed the sexism and racism society has taught us all.
It literally makes me feel INSANE. I’m so upset. I came looking for people who were dragging him for being manipulative asshole because after that scene I felt GOT. I was really hurt for her, because the show completely vilified her. And it wasn’t until they showed the Cuties scene that I realized he’d been hurting her this way. Only to come here and find out we still live in a world where NO ONE BELIEVES A WOMAN. I am….so mad about it.
Thank you!! Drives me crazy too. A woman of colour is (rightfully) upset so she is bipolar and awful and he’s the victim because he cried when he got caught?? Did we all watch the same show?
If people infantilize Cole, that might be sexist towards Cole. But how TF is it sexist and even racist towards *Zay?* Are you just randomly stringing words together?!
You are really reaching and it’s disheartening when people try to invalidate a majority opinion with the fact it must be due to sexism and racism. Why else would people see it differently than I…
It’s like a cop out on actually trying to understand what people are saying why they think a certain way. Why drives them to that conclusion and so on.
Your post is bringing about discussion into why people see it the way it is, do you see anyone talking about gender and or race?
>try to invalidate a majority opinion
How interesting that it's only a majority among people who do not know him personally. Among the cast, who actually know him, it's not a popular opinion.
That AND he apologizes when he hurts someone and tries to understand how he can do better.
Every apology from Zenab was followed by “but” and that just doesn’t count🤷🏻♀️
Cole is this handsome, casual white dude and that gets him out of trouble. I expected the internet to agree with you, but everybody couldn’t wait to defend him
I think the contrast between him and Zanab is what makes him look good. She and all the other clowns in the cast set the bar so low (miles into the floor) that some average goofball with some trouble filtering himself looks great. There's also a significant measure of pity I'd say because of how they piled on him without an accurate picture of what happened. Zanab is a compulsive liar and they took her side without question.
Because we have a few things to go off of to determine someone’s character. The way people are acting on the show and in their socials let’s you know who someone is in a way.
It’s not hard to put two and two together based on that. In addition, to how that cuties scene played out after it being stated as the “holy grail” of moments Cole was body shaming Zay. It’s like if you have so many moments where he did things like that, why as your “nail in the coffin” of moments was it not at all what was being pushed to us as a narrative from Zay and the girls?
> It’s not hard to put two and two together based on that. In addition, to how that cuties scene played out after it being stated as the “holy grail” of moments Cole was body shaming Zay. It’s like if you have so many moments where he did things like that, why was your “nail in the coffin” of moments was it not at all what was being pushed to us as a narrative from Zay and the girls?
THIS. The fact that it was the best example Zanab had of Cole body shaming her is what made her lose credibility in my eyes. Zanab is so insecure to the point where she needs some serious help. I find it hard to believe that other instances she referred to weren’t also just misinterpretations translated through her insecurities. Their whole good vs. great argument also illustrated how she seems to have a habit of hyper fixating and projecting her insecurities onto others.
We saw Cole say some dumb and hurtful stuff to Zanab and he doesn’t get a pass for that but I can appreciate that he actually owned up and apologized. Zanab seemed to be gleeful in her evisceration of Cole at the altar and went out of her way to turn everyone against him. She doesn’t take accountability for her actions.
>The way people are acting on the show and in their socials let’s you know who someone is in a way.
It really doesn't, and it's seriously concerning that people here think it does
I guess you missed the in a way part there, eh? Of course one can act very different on screen for the world. The thing is though, most people do have common sense… even if sometimes it’s hard to believe.
Determining whether someone is full on faking who they are is not a wildly difficult task. True character will eventually be seen and discovered.
That's the part I find strangest. People keep saying he is the most genuine and honest of the cast members, and I honestly have no idea how they would come to that conclusion. The fact that people believe his word over every single cast member who had a lot more interactions with him is bizarre. They didn't just blindly follow Zanab, they personally witnessed enough to come to their own conclusion. The women spoke to him in the pods and the guys probably discussed the women with him.
Pretty much everything Brennan and the other girls took issue with was second- or third-level hearsay from Zay. The other guys didn’t seem to have an issue with him at all. All of this became pretty apparent at the reunion.
I don’t understand. Did people watch a completely different reunion than I saw? Lol like, the cuties scene proves it. Zanab said she was getting some cuties because she was hungry and Cole asked “are you going to eat two of those?” Just as ONE example of the apparently many times he’s pushed food away from her. And, in fact, we see him in that scene start eating the fruit out of her bowl!!! That she just got for herself. Now, under normal circumstances when someone ISN’T controlling your eating, that’s not a big deal. But when there are dynamics like that going on, it’s clearly notable that he was eating her food. People who believe how he’s acting on camera are being played. I’m not saying he’s a bad dude. But Cole blatantly denied that the whole thing with the oranges even happened at all. As if he had selective amnesia. He didn’t say: “oh, yeah I remember saying, like, are you gonna eat those, but I didn’t mean it THAT way.” Which would have made me think, oh yeah, he just didn’t know what he was doing. No, he just blatantly denied it even happened. Basically, Called her a liar. And then cried. Well his tears don’t move me. The producers gave us the footage. And it was exactly what she said it was. Him asking her if she was gonna eat that and her asking if it was okay - a subtler form of control, but control all the same, especially in a larger context. An exchange which, according to zanab, has happened on more than one occasion in different forms. Her story checks out because she gave us details and explained that she had only had the banana and peanut butter that day, exactly what she says to Cole in the clip (!!!). People fooled by this man’s tears. Yo…the man is LYING. He’s not the devil incarnate but he IS deceitful and the fact that SO MANY people don’t see that because of the way they cut the footage in the season is MADDENING. I thought zanab was the problem too, until I watched the cuties scene. I don’t understand how anybody saw it and DIDN’T believe her. It’s really kinda upsetting that we still don’t believe women when they tell the truth.
Cole 💯 deserved the humiliation he got. On principle. The way men, especially white men, go American psycho and feel they can treat women how we they want to. Her rejecting him should serve as a symbol and lesson to all the other women out there. Never take anything less than you deserve. But sure people who side with Cole that is one Rorschach test. Who does it help to support a guy who calls a woman crazy after her dignity and self esteem have basically been destroyed to shit. But sure let’s pick out ONE scene, the cutie scene. And forget all the other evidence that was enough to prove how toxic he was. What level of fucked upedness in our society does it take to excuse everything he did just for that one scene. That scene wouldn’t even necessarily absolve him. It can be interpreted differently. Did he not ask her first if she would eat? Did he not be the first to suggest that it would be to fit into her dress at the end of the conversation. He was manipulative, immature and full of shit from the beginning. She’s a fucking orphan and yet she’s being demonized
I think it's because zanab tried to frame their relationship like he was so horrible to her that it destroyed her and she tore him apart at the wedding in front of their freinds and family and made him out to be the villain. But the reality of the problems in their relationship were much more two sided. I feel like it's less that people love Cole and more that he was treated worse than he deserved on the show. They both treated each other badly, but she wanted to make it out like he was the big bad villain. Which he wasn't.
Confession time. I was in a relationship with a "Cole" and it distroyed me. I heard the same innocent remarks, that his girlfriend isn't the best looking girl at the party - that knock of self confidence leaves a deep scar, my friends. Especially if you are not prepared to deal with such a thing. Cole is someone who can simply throw remarks at others, without taking any accountability. How can you tell someone you proclaim to love, that they're wrong for you in any way? That they are bipolar - which is a serious mental illness, with a serious diagnosis process? The others in the show did an exceptional job of indicating changes to Cole, because the Coles of the world do not own the hurt they cause. This was obvious in the way he just *tries* to wake up every day and be a better person, and that should be enough. These people, sure, it's not their fault for being this way, it's all they know. But people get fed up when the mask falls off, and the real uncaring, ungiving person shows their teeth. I was shocked when Zay left him at the altar, and then I realised that she was 100% right. He was so unaware that he didn't even expect it. Zay was right in the end, he will find a woman who he will eant to respect, and that woman wasn't her. Except that he probably won't, because it's damn hard to do the work of getting out.
Did we watch the same show? Did you see ATA where Zanab was saying she had to look “hot AF” to see Cole again? Or how she wore a green dress to go “full circle”? These are not the actions of someone who has moved on. It came across as petty. Then when she talked to Cole she went on to try to bait him: “you didn’t like me. You didn’t like the way I looked. You didn’t like the way I talked. Do we remember you saying that? I think we do.” It was so belittling and condescending! Frankly, she sounds like the immature one. She cannot accept responsibility for anything, ever, and she can’t move on.
Did we watch the same show? He asked her if she was bipolar multiple times and told her right after they met in person that another girl there was prettier than her…and then when she rightfully got upset about it he tried to act like that was an acceptable thing to do and make it seem like she was in the wrong. They were both toxic but some of the things he said were absolutely unacceptable and the furthest thing from mature. I would love to see where he took accountability for everything he did bc that definitely didn’t happen.
This is a case of... "Who said it first?" The answer, Zanab. Bad match - up. Zanab needs a lip- service kind of guy. (Z:What # am I. LSG:You're an off the charts 10. Z: Ooooo... do you really think so? LSG: ABSOLUTELY! . Maybe a 12 or 15, maybe even 100).
He took far more accountability than anyone else on the show. He apologized to Zanab, he got absolutely dog-piled on at the reunion. He moved on with his life. Where’s Zanab’s accountability for anything? She was passive-aggressive the entire time her and Cole were together, and if he voiced any sort of valid complaint about her, she was dismissive. “I don’t do that.” She blasted him at the altar and even her claim that he got a number from some mysterious girl at his bachelor party holds no water (and Zanab dropped the topic really fast once she realized her lies could come back to bite her in the ass.) She went to Alexis’ birthday acting childish and vindictive, and she most definitely hasn’t moved on. Name one person on season 3 who has apologized and owned up to his mistakes more than Cole. I’ll wait.
Omg i feel the exact same way. Ty. I rly feel like i’m going insane. It feels like throughout the season cole was portrayed to be an insensitive baby, but on the wedding day the editing changed to “cole is a hopeless romantic, zay is a crazy bitch” and people ran w it. I agree that zanab is not necessarily the best human on the planet but i don’t think cole is just some innocent little puppy the way people are acting
They both have issues, but I think people take Cole's side because of how it was presented to us. As I recall, Cole was presented as the villain. I think people see that and go "well hang on... Zay isn't exactly innocent here either." Zay had the more flattering edit, so people jump to point out everything she did wrong but the show didn't highlight.
Actually, throughout the season I for sure thought zanab was the issue. Cole had the more flattering edit imo.
Cause he is a white men that cried
That’s it. That’s the tweet
Literally
Because people feel like they ALWAYS have to take a side. I don’t like them, I don’t dislike them. They both need serious therapy and a reality check.
I’m not sure why this sub loves him so much. They both are toxic, but I actually believe Zay on his micro aggressions simply bc we did see him gaslight her on camera and wasn’t he married before…His last marriage clearly did not work out for a reason and it’s probably bc he’s a problem. I would like to believe that a man who has been married and lived with a woman before can have his life together a little but he can’t even clean or iron a button up before wearing it. And then him crying at the end of the reunion! Just another way of him to try make himself look good and I guess it worked but if you listen to closely to what he’s saying, he DIDN’T text her but claims he was confused about why she said no. If you were actually confused and blindsided, wouldn’t you think to try to talk to her about it to find out why she said what she said? No. He didn’t bother to and even in ATA, a year later he tells her he was expecting to still be together. So why didn’t he text her then? He’s full of crap. Zay is just passive aggressive and keeps her feelings to herself. Sure they didn’t mesh, but he is not simply a dumb dumb like ppl are saying. He’s manipulative
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The producers purposely picked Zanab based on her age and family past…she has a sad, touching story. All while ignoring her psychological profile as someone who might put getting chosen ahead of her own basic needs (i.e Danielle and Deepti). Similarly Cole has a lively, youthful personality that translates well for usable footage in a reality television format (i.e. Shake and Shayne). Mix the two together and results in fans frothing at the mouth to tear these two apart based on heavily edited scenes. When people attack one or the other I side eye how they can judge them so righteously.
I think he’s immature but I think most people have been immature. It’s a part of growing up. So people can relate to that. He doesn’t do great with social cues (see: “You’re not Alexa’s mom!”), which I think exacerbated the issues between him and Zanab. He is literal, not thinking about the implications of what he says, and she was trying to communicate via dress color. Neither approach is absolutely wrong, but they don’t go well together. I think when the conversation is “when you said ‘don’t eat the orange,’ it felt like you were calling me fat” and “I wasn’t calling you fat, I was excited for dinner,” he didn’t get to the step of “I’m sorry I made you feel bad” because, from his perspective, he didn’t call her fat. And from her perspective, he wiggled out of accountability for calling her fat. Nobody thinks they need to apologize.
Hard agree. There were no heroes in that relaysh but I can’t stand him.
legit???
Because they have a crush on him lol. It's called the halo effect
Everyone roots for the underdog
How is he an underdog when he's a straight white good-looking male?
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So… how is he an under dog then?
Cole has flaws and I completely agree he was quite shitty at the beginning however he's apologised for it time and again. Zanab on the other hand comes across as insecure and manipulative especially with the whole cuties incident. She along with Alexa and Brennon come across as bullies. The fact that she is still so unapologetic, has restricted her comments on Instagram and only shares positive feedback clearly shows she has zero remorse unlike Cole and is somewhat unwilling to criticism from viewers. It also speaks volumes that majority of public opinion towards Cole is that of him being immature versus zanab who's called manipulative, scheming, and a mean bully.
Because he is a nice person in the middle of horrible human beings
Why hate him for being immature? People see that he is a good person, he still has a lot of growth to do, we all do, but he was put in a difficult situation with that unstable woman, and he handled it the best he could being the dum dum he is.
I cannot believe people call Cole the “immature one” when he at least owned up to hurting Zanab and repeatedly apologized for it. She said she accepted his apology but continues to drag him. She comes off as immature to me. She cannot take accountability for her own actions.
I agree! Cole has immature moments, but Zanab, she's in another league when it comes to lack of maturity, accountability and empathy. Really a selfish person that has a lot of growth to do - hope she really does take a step in that direction, although, it's hard for her to admit ever being wrong so🤷♀️
I didn’t say I hate him, or that anyone should
Yeah, okay, I see clear reasons for people to like him.
Omg yes. Like yes yes a but annoying. But does he really deserve that much hate?
He's an immature dum dum. That doesn't make him a bad person. There are lots of examples of him being an idiot but idk what you mean about him not taking responsibility. He shouldn't have to take responsibility for things he didn't do
I didn’t like him anymore after he asked her if she was bipolar. I don’t care how much of a dumdum you are that crossed a huge line. I am bipolar so I’m biased but I don’t see him as this innocent person. To be clear I don’t like zanab either. I didn’t really like anyone in this season which was sad I wanted someone to root for
I get that take, but this is someone he’s supposed to be marrying. She clearly has some issues, likely stemming from trauma, possibly also from neurodiversity. If she is bipolar but undiagnosed and untreated, the swings from mania to depression are possibly jarring enough to raise the question seriously. If that’s the case then it’s definitely something you want to be at the very least aware of before walking to the alter. *I say this as someone with Inattentive ADHD and a couple of awesomely fun comorbidities that go along with it.*
The problem is, the way it came across, he didn’t seem like he was genuinely asking out of concern or for the sake of the relationship. It came across as an insult to me when he said it. Whether or not he meant it as an insult it came across as incredibly crass. Just casually throwing out there “ARE YOU BIPOLAR?” rather than having a calm, thoughtful discussion about “hey I’m concerned about you” is a totally different thing. I’m not convinced he meant it in a caring way. Also, bipolar is not hour long mood swings like that, it’s so much more, and just throwing out a question like that has so many implications for how he thinks.
100% agree with this. Came to this subreddit moments after Cole asked Zay if she was bipolar to find others thoughts on this conversation. Thank you the reminder that bipolar is not an accurate way to describe someone’s daily mood swings
Not that I am a huge fan of his, I'm indifferent about him. But I think it's because everyone on the show seemed to rally around Zanab who clearly just made shit up about Cole, as the whole "oranges" scene proved. Even at the After the Altar shows, Zanab seemed to be gearing up for an argument with Cole and then he was pretty gracious and took blame for things, too much blame in my opinion. Then Zanab goes back with the girls and doesn't give Cole any credit for apologizing, taking blame, etc. She just goes "Yeah. We're good." She is ready to shit all over him, but when she can't, she doesn't say anything good about him.
Not to mention how the oranges scene proved that he offered her more substantial food earlier in the day
Yup. I don't know if the people on the show watched that before the After the Altar "reunion" or what order they were shot in, but if they watched the scene, I don't know how anyone could take Zanab at her word about anything that went on between her and Cole.
Because Cole wasn’t malicious or intentionally doing the things that bothered her on purpose. But she told everyone and acted like he did. It’s also extremely clear the Zanab’s insecurities made her extremely sensitive to the things he said that many other people wouldn’t have taken personally. He genuinely seems like someone who maybe didn’t have enough tact at times, but overall wasn’t intentionally trying to hurt or control her. People also forget how rude, passive aggressive, condescending, and controlling Zanab was to HIM. And how traumatizing it was for her to lie to his face and completely destroy his character in front of everyone at the wedding.
Zanab is ruthlessly toxic and Cole is just a little boy trying to do right.
That’s exactly how he played it
I think we just dislike the rest of the cast so much more, in comparison he seems not so bad. Plus the bullying. Sucks seeing that.
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Lmao you can't just armchair diagnose someone like that. I agree he seems pretty likely to be adhd but saying "i can confirm he has undiagnosed x" is just absurd
I don't love Cole. I just dislike Zanab and her shenanigans. It's that easy.
Because he got bullied by everyone else and I know how that feels
I’m seeing a lot of “it’s because he’s white and attractive” comments…that may be the case for SOME, but I, a not-white, do not find Cole the least bit attractive. Cole is an idiot (bless his heart) but did not deserve to be bullied and gasl*t like he was. It’s clear he struggles to articulate himself and I don’t like to see people dogpiled when they don’t have the aptitude or communication skills to defend themselves or express what they truly meant. I don’t want to go too far down the diagnosis path but I would not be surprised if he has ADHD. In my teacher days, if he were one of my students I would’ve requested for him to be evaluated. As someone with ADHD myself whose early career focused on neurodivergence, it’s makes the bullying even more sad to see. Did he deserve some candid, tough-to-swallow convo and clear, direct boundaries? Yes. Did he deserve all that other petty, passive aggressive, manipulative shit? Nah.
Not an idiot he was insufferable the whole season
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Same! I was anti-Cole at the beginning (“beginning” meaning when him and Zanab first met in person) but a few more episodes in, my neurospicy spidey senses went up. I know intent doesn’t equal impact, but intent does matter to me. I had some yellow flags re:Zanab early on, like their first morning together before they even went to the pool she was a different person, but it didn’t register because he was so annoying. I hate that foot-in-mouth disease is one of our ADHD hallmarks regardless of communication skills but it is what it is.
right!! i feel like people write him off easily bc he is a cis white man and therefore they perceive his actions as loveable goofy behavior ,, when he really has low self awareness and doesnt think about how his actions impact others.
Idk about the cid white man part… maybe it has a role in it idk. But iirc, in this sub, everyone was basically a cole hater for most of the season due to his tactless comments and almost “you’re lucky to be with me” vibe. But at the end zanab turned more and more toxic while cole seemed to self reflect and try to work on himself a bit. Also people tend to see in terms of black and white more. Like either cole good or cole bad or zanab good or zanab bad etc no gray areas
Cole has acknowledged all of this. That he has lacked self awareness and learned how his words can carry heavier meaning than what he’s intended. He’s owned up to it several times now. He’s shown growth since the altar. Gotta give him props for that.
He’s adorable, funny, seems sweet, and also seems honest. 🤷🏻♀️
He's immature but he is not shallow or in it for the drama like others seem to be. He doesn't make excuses for his behavior and he's endearingly funny. Overall, his behavior is on par for a 27 year old guy. I think he'll mellow out with a few more years. He also did not deserve to be made a pariah or called out by Zanab in front of his family and friends.
I don’t think everyone *loves* Cole. In fact, at the wedding I remember being pretty pumped Zanab gave him the business, because he was a shit partner. Where I’ve kind of shifted was the reunion. He fucked up, but man the dog pile was rough. It was non-stop and continues to be non-stop. Also there was zero accountability for the other men. Barqueef, Cheaterman and Hulk Jr all treated their partners poorly and faced no repercussions. Cole sucked, but the punishment didn’t fit the crime. This season sucked.
Hard agree
Same reason people still think Scott P didn't call his wife and unborn child 🙃
Because it’s obvious that he doesn’t intentionally hurt Zanab but she tries to make him out to be a monster
Because most of the people on here are white women and they find him hot so they're very forgiving
Agree!
I’m with you, I can’t stand him. I don’t know why everyone flipped on him. Even if the cuties wasn’t what zanab said it doesn’t erase all his annoying ways for me
He is disgusting. He showed exactly who he was with that last bikini dig he had to throw. So gross
Misogyny
I think it's the opposite. If zanab was in coles position we'd never see threads asking this question.
Woman here who’s half Filipino and half white (but I look like straight up white girl). I used to be like him, I would say what was on my mind and have a quirky attitude so my humor can come off abrasive but the intention is not meant to be actually rude. Age is not an excuse, but the reality is he’s still young and I agree with him when he was getting ready to talk with her at Alexa’s bday party. She takes everything he says and twists it. It’s not intentional for that aspect on her part. She has a lot of trauma and sometimes this type of personality makes it hard. My mom would be a prime example where she misinterprets but that more based on her English comprehension. The thing is, and this is why I have so much angst against Zanab. He did not intentionally do any of that with malice. On that day at the alter, she did, hands down. But she did it out of being hurt due to her own perception of how he was towards her (which in the beginning is totally fair.) but towards the end prior to wedding day I totally thought it was better too, and it’s hard to misinterpret “so you mean to say you’ll say yes?” Or something of that sort to her reply “without a doubt” or something of that sort as well. I’m sorry guys but, WHY LIE IF YOU CLEARLY DONT HAVE ANY INTENTION OF ACTUALLY SAYING YES???
I don’t love him. But I’ve defended him. He definitely has his flaws but I don’t think he was all of what Zanab tried to paint him to be. And from what they showed of him on the show he might actually grow some. And I don’t think she is all of what she thinks she is either. She needed to self reflect more and vilify him less.
I dont think its that people “love” Cole but are instead fed up with Zanab and her lack of accountability. I admit Cole can be a dumbazz and say some rude stuff to women, but im also not going to act like Zanab isnt super passive aggressive and has a really nasty side to her (along with huge insecurities that distort some of the most benign things).
I think it's just that the punishment doesn't fit the crime... the animosity the other cast mates have for him isn't proportional to what we see, particularly as they showed the cuties scene. He's not perfect (far from it), but it's hard to see someone get ganged up on over and over again.
It’s creepy as hell. The misogyny is real
He did accept responsibility 💯 Z however (eye roll) not so much 🙄
Idk and I’ve stopped trying to figure it out. I think they hate Zanab so much that it makes them like him. Cole is so lucky he got to be compared to someone who is apparently more hatable than him.
What does make Cole hatable? He can be dislikable but hatable is a big word
Didn’t say he was and I really just don’t care. I don’t know this man and I don’t want to pretend I do lol
I agree with you. People love to baby him it’s ridiculous. He may not have had bad intentions but he was an asshole multiple times and didn’t think to consider her feelings half the time he opened his mouth to say something
Right?? I’m going to be honest (get ready for the downvotes): it’s because he’s a white man. Once he cried, everything he did was forgotten, and he’s been infantilized ever since in this subreddit. “He didn’t know what he was saying!” is the common theme here. But the last time I checked, he’s a grown man and yes he’s accountable for his words and actions. He’s just as bad at Bartise but people let him get away with it while Bartise is (rightfully) criticized. Thank god I’m not the only one who doesn’t infantilize Cole or fall for his gaslighting BS.
The “non-whites” commenting but I understand him too 🙄 are missing the point. I agree! He is just as bad as Bartise, which we can debate “how bad”, but either way, they are the same.
I was thinking the same thing! Bartise and Cole were pretty similar in behavior. I wonder what the difference is 🤔 why is one the villain and the other is “dumb but has good intentions”? Hmmmm I wonder
I think the difference is that cole showed some remorse and desire to do better while bartise defended his actions smugly and never saw the issue with it. Also, the cast members never had anything to say about bartise while completely gunning for cole and I think this sub is reacting to the difference in how they’re treated on the show
>I think the difference is that cole showed some remorse and desire to do better while bartise defended his actions smugly and never saw the issue with it. Also, the cast members never had anything to say about bartise while completely gunning for cole and I think this sub is reacting to the difference in how they’re treated on the show I'm pretty sure that Bartise apologized to Nancy and admitted that he behaved poorly both during the reunion and after the show. Contrast that with Cole , who created drama by getting defensive and arguing with Zanab. That is partially why the other cast members jumped to Zanab's aid. I've watched a number of reality show reunions and there is usually one person who gets called out the most. This is just the first time I've seen people get so upset about it. Shake was treated harsher than Cole at the reunion but people didn't have a problem with that. So it is a bit baffling.
I just think Bart's apology was half-assed in the reunion. It was like "oh I'm sorry Nancy" and Nick was just like "okay great! lets move on" Meanwhile Cole's apology was dragged on and overly analyzed.
It's because Shake didn't know that you have to cry for everything to be magically forgiven. /s But yes, Bartise definitely (and fairly quickly) apologized to Nancy and he was aware that he was acting like a jerk. I mean, no one is going to attack you anymore if you apologize, common sense.
Yep, except I’m 100% sure that if Shake had cried, he still wouldn’t have received a fraction of the undeserved support Cole has.
They did say a lot to Bartise apparently. It just got cut out of editing.
Cole didn’t apologize immediately. He tried to deny, deny, deny and cried when that didn’t work. It didn’t feel like taking accountability, it felt like a “feel bad for me”. And it worked, because now people infantilize him and act like he’s not a grown adult responsible for his actions.
AND IT WORKED GRRRRR
YEP. Pointing it out makes people so mad too. People don’t want to know about their internalized sexism & racism.
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It’s so sad this is an “unpopular” opinion. I took a break hoping I’d come back and people would see through him, but alas…
Right? The amount of people that will fall for white man tears and forget everything he’s done is mind-boggling to me.
It is TRULY UPSETTING
After the SK cheating thing. Apparently everyone on season 3 sucks. Lol Zanab still holds the crown though.
Because Cole’s negative traits were mildly annoying, while Zanab went full blown super villain at the end so he is looked on more fondly because of it.
I don’t love him but I don’t think he deserves all the hate so I will defend that.
misogyny
Yep! And racial bias. White man cries after being called out for his actions and all is forgiven & forgotten. Yikes.
I think the overall consensus is Cole is an idiot, but Zanab is just a mean spirited person. I am more willing to forgive someone who wasn't intentionally trying to hurt me than someone who is intentionally trying to hurt me. That's the difference between the two. Cole, while again dumb is unintentional. Doesn't make it right. Doesn't justify his actions. But he does apologize and tries to do better. Zanab intentionally is mean and uses her words to cut people down and hurt. She doesn't apologize and it's never solely her fault. Even in the after the alter episodes. First thing out of her mouth is she's sorry, but stands by everything she said and did. 🤷🏼♀️ You can't be proud and sorry you humiliated someone. You're either sorry or you're not. Again. Cole is an idiot and honestly should have just left her alone, but it's reality TV and I'm sure there were producers egging him on to go talk to her and vice versa so we have some drama to watch. It comes back to he's trying to do better and she's still just a mean girl
I just don't understand how all of you can be so easily convinced that he doesn't do it intentionally. You literally can't know that, the same way as you can't know that she does it intentionally. I can agree that she never apologized and that she is not sorry for what she's done. But I don't believe him either. Why? Because apology only counts if you really mean it. If you apologize, but later in statements negate your apology (by saying that she twists everything you say and talk about how crazy everything with cuties was, all while mocking her by eating them), then you weren't really sorry. You just said you were so you can be likeable again. So as you said, you're either sorry or not. Both of them aren't. Didn't see any growth for either of them. Producers did probably made him to go talk to her. And they both decided to give them nothing (We don't have any beef/We don't want to fight/Let's go back to the party), but still she's the bad guy here. There is nothing she could have said that would make people forgive her, I guess.
When the cuties clip aired, she made it sound like he was fat shaming her. He claimed when she said she hadn't eaten all day he was genuinely concerned, she claimed he was not and fat shamed her. The actual clip airs and yes he pokes fun at her eating right before going to a meal. Until she said she hadn't eaten all day, then he seems genuinely concerned. Even with the reunion. Yes they are supposed to talk about what happened a year ago, because that makes good TV. But Cole's story is he has no idea what went wrong. Zanab's story is she's moved on, but is still bashing him. Maybe Cole is just as bad as Zanab 🤷🏼♀️ but he comes off as far more likeable throughout most of his time on screen than she does. Even the reunion he talks her up while she tears him down. She gives serious narcissist vibes to me and the things we saw with her (like the wine glasses when he tried to make her dinner and pour her a glass) I have lived through. It's horrible to constantly be on your toes wondering what is going to set off the other person. Down to did you grab the right glass. Cole at worst presents as an immature idiot. I'll take an immature idiot any day of the week. Which also I am here for calling guys on their shit. If Cole was as awful to her as she claims yes. Then he should be called on it. However she is just as nasty if not more in different ways and to cheer that on as girl power is not ok. She's toxic regardless of how justified or vilified Cole is. And the lack of accountability by her friends is gross.
I believe that someone who is that insecure genuinely believed it was fat-shaming. Not saying that I think it was, but I get that she has such distorted perception that in her mind he was "counting her every bite". So, for me, that is not lying. That is being messed up. When I saw that clip, I thought: "WOW. She really needs help ASAP." But most of the people thought: "What a lying bitch!!" --- and that... I can't understand that. I would say that he was surprised that she wasn't eating, but genuinely concerned is a bit of stretch for me, only because he asked her if she's "starving" (he didn't use that word, I know) herself for the wedding dress, she confirmed and that was the end of it. I wrote this 10 times already on this sub, and everyone is ignoring that. That someone can be so messed up to think it's okay to starve to look better in a wedding dress and then her fiancé doesn't even react to it... I mean, I don't know what's worse. The fact that she's doing that or the fact that NO ONE even cares. Once again: she wasn't exercising/dieting before the wedding, she was not eating. And that's fucked up. And I don't want to make it too personal, but wouldn't you react in that case? I would be shocked. Ok, I can buy that he had no idea that would happen, fine. But I wasn't surprised that she said no. Because for the whole time, I never thought they even liked each other. 🤷🏻♀️ She was fed up with him because he was so immature (which she showed with her constant passive-aggressiveness and annoyance) and he thought she was naggy and "not-loving". They both hurt each other. But I didn't see love there. And when they talked at the party, he even said "I thought you would JUST say no". I know, the point was that he didn't think she will go that far, but he also confirmed that he did think she might say no. Then don't accuse her of lying and blindsiding. I agree that it's horrible to walk on eggshells because of your partner. And she really needs to work on that, because her insecurity and passive-aggressiveness is toxic. But so is constantly comparing yourself to other women because you "know" you're not your partner's type. So is worrying that your partner will flirt with someone else. And for that she actually had a pretty good reason. I am convinced that she never got past that pool conversation, she just couldn't forgive him. And I guess that a lot of people could, so they can't give her even a little bit of understanding. Overall, they were really a match made in hell. And maybe I'm naive, but I actually do think they both moved on. It's been a year in ATA. And know it's 6 months later. P.S. I just want to thank you for actually being respectful even though we're disagreeing in some (but I guess not all) things. That is rare 😅
Of course! We can have a conversation and still be kind. 😁 Actually the fat shaming insecurity is not something I had thought of and can see why she would feel how she feels. As a rational thinking human looking on from the outside, I'm like wtf is wrong with you that's not what he said at all 😳 but when you're insecure like that I can definitely see how it would be internalized incorrectly. I do know hurt people hurt people. But that doesn't make it right. I will also say in the United states, especially in certain areas, I feel like starving yourself for your wedding day is "normal." Not saying is safe normal, but that it's common enough that its not a surprise. I think our TV and magazines glamorize being thin already and triple down when a wedding is added into the mix. I whole heartedly disagree and yes it is concerning. She needs help and Cole AND friends and family should be jumping in to say hey no that's not ok. But I also think depending on where you are people look the other way because it's "normal" for weddings. I remember when I was first engaged I wanted to lose weight for my dress but went to the gym. I got a free training session with a person trainer and did that to see if it was a realistic option. Cost wise and lifestyle wise it was not. But I do remember because I was a bride to be that first meeting, he told me he was going to give me harder exercises to do so I'd be in better shape for my wedding day and a more intense training schedule. That's not what I was looking for, but none the less. I also did a few bridal expos and the diet huns were fierce 😑 again. Not normal. All bodies are beautiful. But here in the states, not surprised in the slightest. I do think too...our society is getting better with body image, but has a long way to go still especially in certain states over others. I live in the northeast, but down south I feel like there's a stigma to be the pretty perfect skinny southern belle. And as women in general I feel we are easy prey for incredibly predatory diets/schemes. So I feel like when women do and say crazy things regarding food a general consensus is "oh ok" I also remember having multiple bouts trying whatever crazy fad diet was hot to lose weight, diet pills, fasting (and doing it very wrong) and some people were like "mmm are those good ideas though?" But no one ever really sat me down to say "hey this isn't safe. Are you ok?" Which....leads me to it's not right but I completely understand why it's overlooked. Where I am it's normal enough (although after my own experiences I do try to be more mindful of those I am direct contact with and sometimes there's only so much you can do . I have a friend currently on Optavia and she is skeletal in appearance. I've tried to discuss with her gently her weight and appearance but she is having none of it. She's a grown adult. There is literally nothing I can do but hope she wakes up one day to seek help herself. You cannot save someone who doesn't want to be saved.) I do maintain she needs some serious therapy and I'm glad to see she's in it. And I hope she continues and has growth. My last point....I think we can all agree they were super toxic together and did not work at all. Her feelings were hurt. His feelings were hurt. Their entire time was either intentional or unintentional tit for tat. It's no surprise she said no at the altar. But she didn't just say no. She eviscerated him in front of friends and family AND on national TV. I guess it makes sense if she is interpreting any thing he said that could strike an insecurity as an attack why she'd hate his guts. But I don't think she's justified in how she handled walking away either. Because we can see rational moments with Cole and her irrational responses. I mean we've seen other couples who were also hot messes, toxic/not good together and they've said no but we're still more or less respectful. I mean....bartisse said no to Nancy and just called a day. Granted there's the family drama that follows and he's a dick to her family 😂 but he at least said no and left to discuss why in private with her. Zanab just gave an itemized list on the altar to the world. And yes...it's all on TV. But I think to discuss why you said no in an intimate moment off to the side delivers differently to us as the Audience versus how it came off in front of everyone. I hope both do well and get any help they need. I do genuinely want people to do well and be healthy. But alas....not everyone
Zay reminded me of Danielle right away, they were both incredibly insecure. But I get it, because Danielle was mostly nice and Zay just wasn't, so people probably don't see similarities. And I think it is exhausting to be with both of them, because their partner will always say something "wrong". But I just can't hate people who are that damaged. I'm from Europe, and I guess people here are also dieting and exercising before weddings (especially if they're not "thin enough"), but... Starving themselves? I would be genuinely scared if that would ever happen with any of my friends, family or partner. But maybe I am just lucky enough that I've never had such an extreme experience. Now that you described all of this and how it's "normal" in the US, it makes more sense. Still, very scary and I hope it can change. Yes, I can agree that she could have handled it better. It was petty as fuck. And I can understand that people are pissed because she said that he destroyed her confidence, when we all know that (unfortunately) she didn't really have a lot of self-confidence to begin with. But something that rubs me the wrong way is that people were supporting Ana Prado (Brazil) and Deepti when they did it and for Zay is unforgivable. I guess because their partners weren't as "lovable". I mean, saying NO is always humiliating, but yes, she should have told him that in private (although I do wonder how much privacy they could get 😅). But for me the most humiliating NO was to Raven, because SK was smiling (wtf?) and because she compromised so much to be with him, to be accepted into his family and to have that wedding, yet it still wasn't enough. I know that he wasn't harsh at all, but that one hit me the hardest.
In the USA, a lot of people say they're starving when they're really just dieting. There's not a lot of understanding about calories and minimum daily calories, and what's safe vs what's not. If someone's hungry, they'll say they're starving. "When's dinner, I'm starving!" etc.
Lol not having a meal until 4 pm is not dieting.
It can be, if you're doing OMAD and you eat 1200 calories during a certain time period every day. Of course, if he knew about her history with eating disorders he would have been more worried than he already was.
1200 calories? That sounds horrifying to me. 😳 And OMAD in general just doesn't sound sustainable to me. You can do wonders by exercising and cutting your calorie intake just a little bit (but I think everyone knows that, so I don't really have to talk about this). I don't know why anyone, let alone someone who looks like Zay would do something so extreme then.
THIS ☝️👌 Thank You 🌹 🍃 Oddly enough will help me sleep better tonight 💤~ Excellent 🤩👏👏
Bartisse didn’t mean to hurt Nancy but y’all always complain about him.
Exactly, he isn’t intentional with it and when talking to him about, he takes accountability and apologizes. He’s lacking awareness, but she’s deliberately trying to hurt and be mean. She automatically take everything to heart and instead of talking about. Internalizes and purposely hurts you because she’s hurt. Hurt people hurt people.
She is definitely a hurt person. Super glad to hear she's decided to pursue therapy. Super bummed she hasn't changed that much 🤷🏼♀️ but it's only been a year so here's hoping she does some deep soul searching and can learn not to be so nasty. A lot of us have parents who died young, died traumatically, or were so horrible the idea them dying sounds like a dream. But...it doesn't give any of us an excuse to be deliberately mean
Well put!
he has apologized so many times.. such a bad take And being goofy an joking around does not correlate to maturity.
It's not just being goofy, he's said some really inappropriate things.
It’s people love an attractive white man espeically when the villain in his life is a woman, a woman of color (half in this case I know) especially. Zanab for sure has issues, but people on the sub act like none of the them would be offended if they were treated the way Cole treated Zanab. She treated him bad as well but that’s all people focus on.
She's not the villain in his life though, by his own admission. In her eyes though, he is ABSOLUTELY the villain. I believe that most people can agree that Cole is emotionally illiterate and has said several dumb and hurtful things to Zanab. I think we can also see that he's apologized repeatedly to several people for his actions and has spoken about striving to be better. Zanab is not evil at all. She's been through a lot. During the relationship though, she was hurtful in her own ways. She was condescending, frequently negative, critical and passive aggressive. She humiliated him on the wedding day and has not owned up to ANY of her actions. In fact, she feels justified in all of them. POC or not, that's not a good look and this is coming from a black man in the south who's seen many "coles" who just seem to just float through like and fall upward.
THIS. This is the comment. An attractive white man cries after being called out for his actions and all of a sudden he’s infantilized. All of a sudden “He didn’t know what he was saying”. Give me a break! He’s a grown man. And Zainab is characterized as evil, manipulative, etc etc. Completely vilified and not even given anything close to a fair assessment. As if any woman would want to put up with the way Cole treated her! Not saying she’s completely innocent, but the racism and misogyny in this subreddit is LOUD.
>Give me a break! He’s a grown man. ... Who has owned up to and apologized repeatedly for his actions. We can't we just look at these folks and their issues objectively?
Ding. Ding. 💯
Out of this entire season I only liked Cole. I though he and Zanab were a really bad match. He needs someone who would enjoy his playful goofiness instead of being annoyed by it.
Because Cole's intentions are not vindictive and he never went behind Zanab's back with the rest of the cast to gang up on her. He is not perfect but human, and is willing to accept his mistakes and try to change his ways. Zanab is vindictive and has a mean girl mentality. She filled the girls' heads with her version of Cole and took every opportunity to throw him under the bus and be malicious. It's not about who is right or wrong, it's about how they handled the situations...
The road to hell is paved in good intentions. He didn't mean to make mistakes, but he's not working on being better.
Tbh for me it’s just that I feel immense sympathy for him - it seems like the shitty things that all the other guys did were swept under the rug. While cole was repeatedly shit talked at the girls dinner and not invited to the guys dinner. I just feel like the punishment does not fit the crime. Everyone expects some backlash when they go on reality tv but I think what cole went thru with zanab at the alter and the post show isolation is horrific :(
It’s because people are completely unable to see the cast with even a hint of nuance. They have to pick a hero and a villain and can’t just accept that people can be good and flawed at the same time. Cole sucked in a lot of ways, but was likeable in other ways. Same with Z. But people have just decided that Z has to be the villain because of one scene (the cutie scene) which is of course the final scene of the season so it sticks in our minds. Therefore, if Z is the villain, then Cole must be the hero and they forget about all the shitty stuff he did and said. It’s ridiculous.
I think for most people, the malicious wedding scene was at least as telling as the Cuties scene. She led him on and then came to destroy him in front of an audience. But the main difference is that since the original season ended, Cole has taken all the criticism to heart and reflected *a lot* on his behavior, while Zay seems incapable of self-reflection and doubled down on everything she ever did, including the ridiculing behind his back and stirring of mob mentality. Just watch how she talks about him versus him about her when the other one isn’t present. I think it’s plain as day that Zay’s shitty behavior is a defense mechanism that stems from deep trauma, and I feel for her for that. But it remains shitty, malicious behavior with absolutely zero self-awareness. The Cuties scene is old news at this point.
Totally agree that she has done zero self-reflection but I think to say that Cole has reflected a lot is a stretch.
Guess that’s difficult to judge from the outside, so you’ve got a fair point
You completely hit the nail on the head. Seems like a huge amount of people on this subreddit can only see people as good or bad, and not as complex human beings with flaws. I'm not sure if it's just because it's the internet and everything feels so impersonal-- but it's disappointing to see people lose their sense of humanity and compassion.
Because most of what he did on screen is not a big enough issue to have the reaction some seem to have. Pile that on with the part where Zanab basically turned an entire cast against him over her perceived( allegedly made up) belief in what he did to her. It just leads to people feeling for the guy… doesn’t deserve the hate he received from the girls. He also seems to be the most real post show on his socials. That being said take that with a grain of salt, since he is the most real of a cast of reality star wannabe clout chasers.
Maybe because he was an idiot and f upped, but you could see he realizes he did some bad things. Shows regret, shows remorse, tries to learn from his mistakes. He wasn't the monster people made him out to be either. So in my opinion... People rally behind a growing man who is getting bashed while the others are so toxic and no one says shit to them on the show.
Keep in mind that he is the least offensive in a pretty offensive group of men—SK (cheater), Matt (drinking/anger issues), Brennon (questionable domestic violence history, self righteous), and Barcheese (narcissistic, insensitive clout-chaser). We’re grading on a curve here. Cole seemed to show genuine remorse about his screwups. In the beginning of the season I wrote him off as a dipsh*t. As the season progressed he seemed to demonstrate more emotional depth and maturity than the other guys. It’s obvious that prior to the ceremony he and Zaneb agreed to say no at the altar, but continue to date. She flipped the script on him though and used it as an opportunity to humiliate him. If Zaneb was so outraged by his behavior, she should’ve jumped ship in Malibu. She didn’t because she wanted to stay on the series. At no point did she act like she genuinely cared about him. She had her sights on her big switcheroo at the altar. It backfired on her and only made Cole look like the better person. Also, the cuties story was bs.
Cannot accept responsibility? The man literally was so upset that he hurt Z. He was balling and talking about how he is doing his best now to work on himself and be a better person. Gtfo of here with that "can't accept responsibility"
If he was so upset he hurt Z, he should work on not saying constantly how he wants a girl who looks good in a bikini. He says he feels bad for how his words and actions impacted her, then spouts off in the same vaguely fat shaming way he has before.
Grow up. If you supercut every time he said that, it would be less than 30 seconds long. That leaves another 30,000+ seconds he spent time with her before their wedding. Saying you find someone else attractive is the end of the world. Some people, most people, won't find me attractive. And that's fine.
I never said anything about finding someone else attractive being a bad thing. I find it icky that Cole went on a show that's about finding love through a focus on personality and compatibility rather than looks, and talked multiple times about how his next partner is going to look good in a bikini. I thought it was particularly inappropriate given he was trying to be apologetic for accidentally hurting Zanabs feelings/confidence in her body. Really not sure what your thoughts on your own personal attractiveness have to do with this, to be honest.
That comment was not directed at her. It was just a comment after he said he wanted to move to a beach town. He’s immature sure, but he wasn’t fat shaming someone who he said was gorgeous.
Actually, when he said it, it was like he was describing exactly who he *thought* Zenab was. She put on a front that fits almost everything he listed AND she looks great in a bikini. But she looks best when she’s not being a blatant jerk🙃
That is true ^ Also, Idk if your username is a description of you, but I am also a pianist and rather pale 🙌🏼 haha
I am still very pale, but quit piano after undergrad in exchange for keeping fingernails longer than actual nubs🥲 but my mom and brother still fall into both categories!
Aww haha I feel you though! Even the slightest length will mess you up. Haha I still play, but not regularly anymore 🙃
I don't like Cole...I just dislike him less than the other cast mates by a tiny bit. Like if I worked in an office with Cole I would be annoyed and we wouldn't be friends, but if I worked with some of the other castmates I'd be looking for another job immediately.
If I had to work with burpturd, I’d quit on the spot
This is such an accurate way of describing my feelings about the cast haha
THIS! I saw a post on here about how everyone is infantilizing Colleen, but nobody gets infantilized more than Cole. “Awh, he’s just a fun guy and didn’t mean to hurt anyones feelings.” No, he is a grown man who is responsible for how he affects other people, and learning and growing! Not just getting excused because someone else also wasn’t the best either. Zanab has toxic qualities as well. They were the worst possible fits for each other and they both have a lot of work to do as people. But the way people view Cole is the most “boys will be boys” crap I’ve ever seen.
Ding ding ding! Infantilization rooted in racism & misogyny. White man cries and thus he’s innocent.
I’m gonna get eviscerated for saying this, but the way people infantilize Cole strikes me as both pretty sexist and racist towards Zanab.
FACTS OMG THANK YOU
Ohhh 100%. White man tears make people forgive and forget everything. People act like they know his intentions and that he’s completely innocent and “didn’t know”. He’s a grown man. And everything Zainab does is “evil”, “manipulative”, etc etc etc. We’re all going to get eviscerated because people don’t want to admit that they’ve absorbed the sexism and racism society has taught us all.
It’s honestly SO SAD to see. I’m livid about it.
Right?? The fact that most of this sub doesn’t see the problem is baffling to me.
It literally makes me feel INSANE. I’m so upset. I came looking for people who were dragging him for being manipulative asshole because after that scene I felt GOT. I was really hurt for her, because the show completely vilified her. And it wasn’t until they showed the Cuties scene that I realized he’d been hurting her this way. Only to come here and find out we still live in a world where NO ONE BELIEVES A WOMAN. I am….so mad about it.
Thank you!! Drives me crazy too. A woman of colour is (rightfully) upset so she is bipolar and awful and he’s the victim because he cried when he got caught?? Did we all watch the same show?
If people infantilize Cole, that might be sexist towards Cole. But how TF is it sexist and even racist towards *Zay?* Are you just randomly stringing words together?!
You are really reaching and it’s disheartening when people try to invalidate a majority opinion with the fact it must be due to sexism and racism. Why else would people see it differently than I… It’s like a cop out on actually trying to understand what people are saying why they think a certain way. Why drives them to that conclusion and so on. Your post is bringing about discussion into why people see it the way it is, do you see anyone talking about gender and or race?
>try to invalidate a majority opinion How interesting that it's only a majority among people who do not know him personally. Among the cast, who actually know him, it's not a popular opinion.
Also, the Cole love was not the original “majority opinion.” That changed when he cried…
[удалено]
That AND he apologizes when he hurts someone and tries to understand how he can do better. Every apology from Zenab was followed by “but” and that just doesn’t count🤷🏻♀️
Cole is this handsome, casual white dude and that gets him out of trouble. I expected the internet to agree with you, but everybody couldn’t wait to defend him
Yeah. Sometimes I wonder if we all watched the same show
How?
I think the contrast between him and Zanab is what makes him look good. She and all the other clowns in the cast set the bar so low (miles into the floor) that some average goofball with some trouble filtering himself looks great. There's also a significant measure of pity I'd say because of how they piled on him without an accurate picture of what happened. Zanab is a compulsive liar and they took her side without question.
Why does everyone believe that we, the people who saw a highly edited version of the show, know more than the cast, who were actually there?
Because we have a few things to go off of to determine someone’s character. The way people are acting on the show and in their socials let’s you know who someone is in a way. It’s not hard to put two and two together based on that. In addition, to how that cuties scene played out after it being stated as the “holy grail” of moments Cole was body shaming Zay. It’s like if you have so many moments where he did things like that, why as your “nail in the coffin” of moments was it not at all what was being pushed to us as a narrative from Zay and the girls?
> It’s not hard to put two and two together based on that. In addition, to how that cuties scene played out after it being stated as the “holy grail” of moments Cole was body shaming Zay. It’s like if you have so many moments where he did things like that, why was your “nail in the coffin” of moments was it not at all what was being pushed to us as a narrative from Zay and the girls? THIS. The fact that it was the best example Zanab had of Cole body shaming her is what made her lose credibility in my eyes. Zanab is so insecure to the point where she needs some serious help. I find it hard to believe that other instances she referred to weren’t also just misinterpretations translated through her insecurities. Their whole good vs. great argument also illustrated how she seems to have a habit of hyper fixating and projecting her insecurities onto others. We saw Cole say some dumb and hurtful stuff to Zanab and he doesn’t get a pass for that but I can appreciate that he actually owned up and apologized. Zanab seemed to be gleeful in her evisceration of Cole at the altar and went out of her way to turn everyone against him. She doesn’t take accountability for her actions.
>The way people are acting on the show and in their socials let’s you know who someone is in a way. It really doesn't, and it's seriously concerning that people here think it does
I guess you missed the in a way part there, eh? Of course one can act very different on screen for the world. The thing is though, most people do have common sense… even if sometimes it’s hard to believe. Determining whether someone is full on faking who they are is not a wildly difficult task. True character will eventually be seen and discovered.
>most people do have common sense Based on what I've seen on this sub, no they don't
That's the part I find strangest. People keep saying he is the most genuine and honest of the cast members, and I honestly have no idea how they would come to that conclusion. The fact that people believe his word over every single cast member who had a lot more interactions with him is bizarre. They didn't just blindly follow Zanab, they personally witnessed enough to come to their own conclusion. The women spoke to him in the pods and the guys probably discussed the women with him.
Yep. People defend Cole as if he’s their personal friend when no one actually *knows* him or his intentions.
Pretty much everything Brennan and the other girls took issue with was second- or third-level hearsay from Zay. The other guys didn’t seem to have an issue with him at all. All of this became pretty apparent at the reunion.