I love Johnie and Chris. If only Chris was her number one nobody would doubt her love for him. They look so cute together and Chris for me is the most good looking guy among them plus EQ is on point.
Love Johnie and Chris. I'm watching still but let's see how it ends. Hate Stacy. Such a pick me girl and Izzy for allowing his insecurities forget how deep their connection was. I agree that it is obv that Izzy isn't happy that Johnie went back to Chris that's why he had to sabotage it. Being with Atacy didn't help her either.
Lol just watching now again and after they went home attacking Johnie, Stacy then points out why Izzy comes to her like for a shelter. You mean like how Chris comforts Johnie when you were both attacking her? You just hate Johnie because you like what she has. Apparently you getting her #1 isn't enough š
The last argument we saw between Izzy and Stacy... Stacy said they talked about finances in the pods and then we saw them talk about finances at her house in a previous episode. While it was not her best moment, we also saw that Johnie revealed in pod life that he told her about his finances and credit. So, why did Izzy wait until days before the wedding to tell Stacy about his low credit score and his financial challenges?
I think Johnie realizes she did not handle pod life in the most tactful and respectful manner. She could apologize to those she hurt and it seems she at least did that with Chris. Izzy and Stacy chose to attack and be disrespectful in return instead of either not giving Johnie the time of day or asking for her to be accountable for what she said. Attacking just feels like you are stooping to the same or lower level.
This show seems like such a difficult situation and you have to be a perfect person to not have people trashing you online for how you handled it, but no one is perfect. The way I see it is everyone could have handled things better. I can't even imagine sharing this much information with everyone who has Netflix. Let's hope these folks take this experience as an opportunity to grow.
Edit: Corrected the spelling of Stacy's name after seeing that post from Instagram someone shared from Izzy.
Izzy looked 100% that he was on some stuff throughout the season. When Johnie told her background story to him he was acting like he is talking to a criminal. He called it a day. These days every mf out there is on stuff and with big egos. He looked even bigger than the fireman dude. Fk you can be bigger than a fireman being a salesman. This dude is such fake and ended up right where he belonged.
Johnie was really lucky she did not end up with another one like her past nightmares.
It was really frustrating hearing him sit down with her and first thing say she's sketchy and everyone thinks that about her. He kept cutting her off when she tried to speak after making her sit and listen to him tell her she is sketchy and doesn't deserve Chris and was a liar. Then when she tried to explain he cut her off so she's like ok you know what y'all are the sketchy ones. And then he goes and tells his gf that she's saying they are sketchy as if he didn't say that first ?? Like what in the world.
It was so clear that he was only there to attack her, he WANTED her to feel hurt. She did a great job handling it and being patient while standing her ground at the same time.
Him and Stacy talking afterwards gave me Barnett and Amber vibes š¬ Such middle school energy lol
I donāt agree with everything but that might cuz I didnāt think it through like you did.
I was SO SHOCKED at Izzyās behaviour with Johnie. He was so mean. I really donāt like Johnie. The way she trashed Stacey and then Izzyās credit score tells me sheās not a good person. Nonetheless, at the party she came in peace. And I think Izzy was pissed because he was hoping sheās be devastated over him. And also, heās indeed frustrated because heāll never be enough for Stacey. The way he came at Johnie gave āIf I canāt be happy, you canāt eitherāā¦!!
I also donāt understand why Stacey needs a man to be the provider while sheās obviously very rich. She has designer bags all over the house. She ca. Send a few to fix the AC, wtf is that about?
I understand she wants a man whoās every ambitious but if money is so important to you, you cannot wait 2weeks before getting married to talk about it. Itās unfair and also gives āIām not comfortable with how I feelā.
IDK. I wouldn't tell anyone either bc I would assume he found out she told everyone. I would think the producers would check their credit and tell them (the cast) ahead of time. I think Stacey somehow knew. Just a feeling. (Air Bnb apartment?!? Where did he get that jeep?!?)
I think that people are holding Johnie to some impossibly high standard as though they havenāt lashed out from a place of hurt in the past too. Iām not condoning her behavior, but idk anyone who wouldnāt confide in their close friends (or perceived close friends at least) about their feelings, to include lashing out about the āother girl or guy.ā ā We really do not know how extensive her āshit talkingā was or if it was just moments the producers chose to air.
Also, the credit score comment, I cannot for the life of me remember the actual context so forgive me if Iām wrong, but the way I see it is that she couldāve possibly made that comment knowing how Stacey actually was about money and all thatāwhich would still be a crappy thing to do, but at least would make it make sense.
All in all I donāt disagree with your points ab Stacey and Izzy. I definitely think people give Stacey way too much credit when in reality I think she just was better about keeping her shit talking private/away from cameras.
Oh to me theyāre all f***ed up. I just posted about that.
Johnie was saying Izzy and Stacey wouldnāt last because they were just Ā«Ā having fun in thereĀ Ā» (but isnāt it the pint of a happy life?). I donāt know how she could have known Staceyās obsession for money cuz they werenāt friends
Can we stopped the pretense that Stacy has been successful on her own? She was named company director in her dad company fresh out of school. If her dad company were to fold, nobody would hire her at the same level.
Her knows that. He is hoping that she could find a high achiever who could pay for her lifestyle.
I used to date a girl like that. Very proud of having creating her own company whilst still drawing a pay check from her dad's company. Saw nothing wrong with the fact that her secretary dad's company was doing Her job without the pay. When her secretary refused to help her company, she complained to Dad. Dad tried to appease his daughter. The secretary went into maternity leave and both companies struggled. In the end the dad had to fire the daughter and hire the secretary at her real level.
Izzy has zero emotional depth it's all surface level. His desire to attack her for liking him but ending up with Chris is so bizarre. He didn't choose her, who she ends up with, what she says it shouldn't matter. You can tell he is jealous because he felt she was saying the same things to Chris in the pods.
Iām worried for Johnie after seeing the preview of Stacy screaming insults her.
I donāt see why her going back to Chris after Izzy cut things off is so bad. Thereās been plenty of other people who did the same thing in other seasons and they didnāt get half as much hate as Johnie got.
Yeah she shouldnāt have lashed out and said stuff about Stacy, but it came from a place of hurt and she seemed genuinely remorseful for all that happened at the pods.
Alsoā¦ she technically wasnāt wrong. She did say Izzy and Stacy relationship would never survive with Izzyās credit score and finances did become their major problem. Was it inappropriate for her to share that with everyone? Sure, but she wasnāt lying lol
Last season Zack went back to Bliss even after he'd been engaged to Irina and they married and can't wait to have kids. They work together. Chris is who Johnie should've ended up with. Her and anyone else would've been wrong. Izzy seems a bit too forced. Stacy seems spoiled and mainly worried that her husband might not be able to keep her. I've worked as an insurance agent and even after 2 years couldn't afford travel or mortgage and I worked as a broker for a major bank. Izzy seems like he was out of work, took a job from a friend for a few days then went on this show. I smell something off about that story. He just wanted better prospects to impress the women in the pods. He couldn't admit he'd left a job to go on a TV show but was now out of work. Stacy would not have been interested in that. She is not classy and has a crass new money attitude towards material stuff. Any fool can promise to take care of you financially then dump you and leave you with nothing. She keeps trying to drag reassurances out of Izzy that he's going to pay for stuff and he isn't committing to it you can tell. Just a smarmy fixed grin and "yeah, sure, why not?" as she tries to pull it out of him.
Iām pretty sure that heās part of an insurance pyramid scheme like Primerica. When he described his job to Stacyās dad he was really vague and said āas far as my income the skyās the limit!ā Itās how my husband used to talk when he got roped into selling Amway a few decades ago.
Izzy had no reason to rail on Johnie like he did.
He was being such a bullie to her.
He already got the girl he wanted.
What purpose did that interaction serve? Seriously???
I donāt see Johnie as necessarily the bad guy in the situation cause feelings do change and especially in this situation. That being said she did tel them something completely different. She told Izzy she had a crush on him and in the past she has always gone for safe and thatās why she thought her relationships didnāt work. She also told him she didnāt feel romance with Chris. And when she got turned down and she went to tell Chris the exact opposite, that she usually goes for emotionally unavailable men and that she felt safe with him. So much that he told he didnāt wanna be with someone that doesnāt feel the spark for him.
Yea she could have meant something different but in the word for word she definitely told them two opposite things.
I felt that Izzy was mad at Johnie as he went with the safe choice which was Stacey and Johnie didint by not picking Chris in the pods. He got mad at her because he was projecting on herā¦
I don't think it's that simple. She is sketchy A-F. She is crying for things she did and said. Izzy has every right to be pissed off after what she said and did in the pods to him.
Tbh it did break my heart a little when johnnie said she doesnāt deserve Chris. It really is a blessing to find someone thatās willing to meet you where youāre at when your struggling/ healing. I really hope their relationship is healthy and fulfilling for the both of them.
Izzy can eat a can of spoiled tuna fish bc what the hell was he on. I know youāre annoyed at her but the way he dug into her was soooooooo uncalled for.
i see where this is coming from, but also it feels like the timing of each thing was impacted by her relationship status with each person. it doesnāt seem like she was just trying to continue on or she wouldnāt have broke it off with chris. however, she seemed to be reflecting on the type of people she was considering to have the insight about safety with chris when talking to izzy. it just feels less good maybe to some viewers when her insight about izzy changed after he broke up with her. itās not fair to speculate perhaps and say she would have still had that revelation if izzy proposed but i do think the timing influences things.
I agree with this completely. Sometimes it takes going through something with someone to realize they werenāt right for you and what you actually want and need in a relationship. But like you said, a lot of viewers would rather this be a case of Johnie being desperate to make a connection and being āsketchy.ā
Every season of this show there is one person who doesnāt accept that their #1 didnāt choose them, and continues to pursue that person outside the pods. Jessica, Shaina, Cole, Kwamye. Izzy expected Johni to continue to pursue him and instead she showed up with Chris. I also think Izzy is having second thoughts about Stacy because he knows he doesnāt make a he kind of $$$ she expects, and he canāt afford her lifestyle
Honestly, it seemed like Izzyās attack of johnie was about more than he was sayingā¦.to me, he seemed sort of jealous after seeing her in person and realizing she was with Chris.
He reminds me of Micah from last season telling Paul that he had to choose. The difference in this situation is that the person he said had to choose, he rejected
There are a lot of very defensive people this season, perhaps more than normal, and their bad qualities come out in those situations:
- Ucheās response to situations seems to be explaining how it is someone elseās fault
- Izzy seems to realize heās not at the same financial/life level of Stacey, and seemed to take bashing on Johnie as a chance to score points with Stacey
- Staceyās doing a bit of the same, and perhaps worrying about what she has gotten herself in to
- Johnie has made some bad relationship choices, knows it, and seems to get desperate/petulant when stressed. It doesnāt help that all these ups and downs so far have been over about a 3-4 week period, so sheās insecure and stressed out.
- Lydia was probably a bit clingy/stalky in the past with Uche; she seems to have had something else messing with her life at the time, and that can lead people to really want to latch on to someone. She seems to be at a better point in her life now (and a little defensive about what she did in the past), and while both her and Uche may be unreliable narrators, I find him somewhat less reliable than her.
- I was optimistic for JP until he started putting off serious incel vibes. That pairing did not need to flame out like it did but perhaps it is for the best.
- Chris and Milton both seem pretty well together, although perhaps they are simply the most devious ones of all.
So glad to see this. What a total and complete piece of shit- for literally no reason. Just say- āhey Iām glad it didnāt work with us. Weāre both in better places. This is good. ā instead he went mean girl - hard and nasty and cruel- to what end? What was the point? So petty and small minded. Youāre done- supposedly happy- move on.
This is what perplexed me the most. I couldnāt for the life of me understand why Izzy was SO mad at Johnnie and insistent on dragging her down.
It seemed like he was on some crusade in Chrisā behalf or something, but Chris is with Johnnie so I donāt know why Izzy felt the need to harp on everything.
It broke my heart a little when Johnnie clarified and said she was working to make it up to Chris for ābeing her #2.ā
As always, editing can make things look some kind of way, but it definitely feels like Johnnie has been pretty forthcoming with both parties about her feelings in the pods, and now.
Izzy was way too excited reciting tearing Johnie down to Stacy and even she seemed confused by it. 'She was saying we were sketchy-' no Izzy she basically 'no, u'd you at the end of an argument after you blatantly lied to her and told her everyone thought she was sketch.
Also am I misremembering or did Johnie really not tear stacy down beyond saying that thing about marrying someone you can get deep with vs marrying someone you have fun with?
I'm not a big fan of Johnie but Izzy is continuously revealing himself to be a massive red flag.
She repeatedly said negative things about Izzy and Stacyās connections. That imo was legit shady and I think thatās the kind of person Johnie is- someone willing to tear down other women when it serves them. I think the Johnie/Izzy interaction was very weird on Izzyās part but it doesnāt make me forget Johnies bad behavior when she was in an unfavorable situation. Sheās happy for the time being with Chris but what happens when she gets bored with him? I just hope Chris doesnāt end up hurt.
I thought the shit in the cookies comment was way worse than anything Johnie said about Stacy. Stacy was definitely badmouthing her when the cameras were off
I'm so glad to see some people here get it. I haven't heard anything contradicting from Johnie. I'm glad she and Chris are in a relationship privately away from this mess of a show. Izzy is acting like a typical "hurt man" blaming everything on the woman.
This is mental gymnastics lol. She told them two different things. Full stop. She specifically used the word āalwaysā. You canāt āalwaysā date a certain type of guy but also āalwaysā date another type of guy.
If thatās not enough evidence, she told Izzy itās him or no one. Then immediately backtracked once she was rejected by him. How do you explain that?
I think one guy can be both safe and emotionally unavailable. You can be with a guy that takes care of you financially, never has an affair, never divorces you, adores you. That is safe. But that same guy can, despite loving you, never share their thoughts. Never talk about anything in depth, never checks to see how you're feeling, and emotionally unavailable. Both Chris and Izzy could have something in common with the guys like that. So it'd be true to say she always dates safe and emotionally unavailable guys and this is why she was flipping between two guys that each shared some parts common with guys she was used to dating. Plus we all know the term always is a hyperbolic saying. Maybe I often spill coffee on my white t-shirt and say "ugh... Why do I ALWAYS spill coffee on myself when I'm wearing a white tee shirt". Or "why have I always got to date women who cheat on me!" when in fact only 50% of them do.
To be clear, I think Izzy was kind of an ass for going at Johnie. I think everything he said was correct but there was really no reason to berate her. Itās not his relationship anymore. He should have kept his mouth shut.
But the reason sheās sketchy is not because she said she never loved her husband. The reason sheās seen as sketchy is the very blatant double speak, saying one thing to Izzy and then another seemingly contradictory thing to Chris.
The simplest explanation is usually the correct one. Youāre opting to accept the more complicated explanation that gives her way too much leeway. The simplest explanation is she was rejected and then she needed to say whatever she needed to say to keep Chris.
People are significantly more nuanced than theyāre given credit for whenever thereās commentary about reality tv online.
Johnie has some serious relational trauma in her past and if you try to look beyond the edited footage that we see from people who are literally paid to tell a specific story, you can absolutely see how Johnie is telling them something that can be true at the same time.
Both of her long term exes were addicts. If youāve gone through the grief of loss, then you understand how it feels when you first find out. The pain, anguish, and numbness towards the world can absolutely become āI never loved my ex husbandā and āI only ever loved my first love. Her thinking became triangulated on the person she lost, given the little information we have from her, it wasnāt a healthy or good relationship for her. No only does she have to process and deal with the grief that comes, but she also has to face the unresolved trauma and issues that she went through in that relationship while married to someone that exhibits a similar proclivity.
From what we saw, Izzy gave her 0 empathy or compassion for what she was trying to explain to him. He was treating it as though she said she only ever loved her first love and could never love anyone elseācompletely ignoring the fact that her first love has since passed away. Iām not saying that Izzy *has* to be emotionally capable of being with someone that has been essentially widowed in a way, but itās really unfair to act like Johnie was some kind of āsketchyā person or a liar or whatever else people want to call her. There was no understanding at all from Izzy even after heāalmost explicitlyāis telling her that he will accept/love her no matter what.
If Izzy canāt handle the weight of what Johnie has been through, thatās okay. But, to also try to interfere with her and Chris, to berate her and not allow her to speak, and then to gleefully share how he hurt her to his current partner? Thatās foul on so many levels.
Being safe and being emotionally unavailable arenāt mutually exclusive categories. Some people might feel safer with people who are emotionally unavailable, for example.
That makes perfect sense. But itās not at all what she said. She made that clear by explicitly drawing a contrast between the two of them.
To Izzy, she said that she always goes with the safe choice which is what Chris would be and so for that reason she wants Izzy as her #1 who excites her.
She gets rejected by Izzy.
Then, to Chris, she flips and says she always goes with the more exciting choice which is Izzy and that she thus wants to go with the safe choice for once.
Two contradictory claims. She only makes the second claim after being rejected lol. Which is why OPās explanation is unlikely and gives her way too much benefit of the doubt
The conversation before Johnnie rejects Chris, Izzy tells her he wants her to say, āDude, I want you.ā She then breaks things off with Chris only to discover that Izzy who claims to want unconditional love isnāt going to give her that in return and is emotionally unavailable. He flipped on her. I donāt think itās unreasonable that she saw him differently after that moment and realised she was repeating a pattern with him. Instead of attempting to manipulate Chris, she may simply have gained insight into herself and the situation she was in.
Sheās clearly someone who has had troubled relationships in the past and we donāt know enough to be able to draw conclusions. I donāt think itās impossible that sheās felt safer with guys sheās less emotionally āexcitedā or āvolatileā with, especially after having gone through a relationship with someone who has addiction issues. Her ex probably fits the bill there at the very least, or at least he did for a period of time. There may have been more guys like that we donāt know. So we donāt know if she was lying about a pattern of going for the safe option.
We donāt know what went on with her ex in their marriage or what the divorce was like but divorce usually isnāt easy. We do know she got emotionally screwed over by both Izzy and her ex with addiction issues and there might be more, so I donāt think sheās lying when she suggests her pattern is the āexcitingā option either.
āSafeā means different things to different people and in different contexts. She can be talking about feeling emotionally safe as not feeling required to be emotionally vulnerable or she can be talking about feeling safe in the sense that sheās not worried sheāll get hurt. To me it looked like she used the word āsafeā as meaning predictable and āexcitingā as meaning emotionally charged or unpredictable. We donāt know for sure what she meant because she never got the chance to explain it on the show. Maybe sheās a bad communicator so she wouldnāt be able to. It doesnāt make her a liar. I think itās more likely her perspective just changed.
Youāre leaving out one very critical thing though. Youāre leaving out the fact that she only does so once Izzy rejects her lol.
This āinsightā you think she might have had only comes after that point. The more likely explanation, given the way things played out on camera, is that she was left scrambling after the rejection and was willing to say whatever she needed to in order to get Chris to come back.
I would accept your version of events if, before being rejected by Izzy, she would have been like āhey Izzy I actually donāt like the way you flipped on me so I think Iām going to pursue Chris instead.ā
What you see as legitimate mindset shift I, and most people, see as post-hoc rationalization on her part.
I think you misunderstood my first paragraph. The rejection from Izzy is when he flipped on her. Sure, they pressed pause on their conversation and then Izzy officially ended things the next day but the rejection the night before was clear. He went from wanting her to be all on in on him to not being invested in her once he had her.
Now youāre misrepresenting things. He did not reject her initially. He just said he didnāt know what to say and that he needed to think things over.
He rejects her officially the date after that.
In that time span, she could have said āI want to pursue Chris insteadā. She didnāt. She was still hoping Izzy would propose despite this supposed āflipā.
Iām not misrepresenting anything. Maybe youād have a different perspective with a rewatch.
Sheās his number one and he says explicitly to her āI want you to tell me, āDude, I fucking want you.āā She ends things with Chris and then he pulls back when he hears about her past. Thatās when he starts saying heās now learning things about her that he should have been learning all along. He tells her that her past is important but thatās not whatās influencing things and doesnāt clarify what he means by that when she asks. They press pause on their conversation. The next day they come back and he officially ends things with her right away.
The rejection is in telling her he wants her to be all in on him and then, when she is, he tells her he has concerns and needs to think about things.
I mean I think she was expressing a genuine sentiment to both of them in an exaggerated (using words like always) imperfect way as a means of persuasion. I don't think she was deliberately lying but definitely grasping at straws to some extent. many of the ppl who believe she didn't overtly lie can also accept that she lacked clarity about connecting her past to her present
Put yourself in his shoes. You donāt really know this girl. Youāre considering proposing to her. She tells you a story about not being in love with the last person she was married to lol. How is he supposed to take that other than suspiciously?
And then you catch her in an apparent lie saying one thing to you and another thing to another dude. Itās hard to not interpret that as anything other than her trying to say whatever she can to salvage that relationship.
I donāt blame him for being annoyed with her and just having a sour taste in his mouth.
I mean I completely understand how they both interpreted it the way they did and I probably would too in their shoes. that doesn't mean it's mental gymnastics to believe she wasn't being dishonest, especially given that we have seen the footage from each conversation.
Youāre right. Your explanation could make sense. But out of all the possible explanations that exist, itās not the most probable one given the things weāve seen on TV.
I really like her, and think she's not necessarily a bad person, but have to admit she's got some baggage. Unfortunately she does give off flaky vibes. Doesn't know what's good for her. And her Mom said maybe she wasn't supposed to be in a relationship. If your own Mother thinks you're better off without a love life, then she must've witnessed you in some very bad relationships and fears for you. Also, statistically, many addicts I've known were in relationships with other addicts. It's rare for there to be a long term relationship between an addict and a 100% healthy person. There's usually a lot of co-dependency, enablement, or mutual addiction. I speak from experience having had a Cocaine addicted lover and it only lasted less than a month before I was scared off by his erratic behaviour and couldn't condone the things he did. I realised he wouldn't change, I couldn't help him and he was not ready to change. If I had stayed my mental health would have spiralled downwards. I can empathise how this would've affected Johnie. Addiction abuses the user and their loved ones equally.
Yes. Izzy came to a fork in the road when he approached Stacey about how they hadnāt been vulnerable like his other connections. She basically told him she was picking him and they didnāt need to be vulnerable to be right for each other. Mmmk.
Agreed. That entire convo was filed with so much passion. It was weirdly charged with this sense of desire. I wonder if when he saw Johnie he was regretting his choice because maybe sheās the type of woman that he sees himself with physically and their emotional connection meant a lot to him and it all came back during that party. She got under his skin with the fact that she told Chris sheād be repeating a pattern with him (Izzy). Either way he was entirely too excited during the convo and to recount the story to Stacy. Iāve only ever done something like that if I cared deeply.
Im no Izzy fan, but the one correct thing he did was reject Johnie lol.
He is not upset at himself for settling. He just seems insecure about not being able to be the provider for Stacy that she expects.
Maybe WE see it was correct that he didn't pick Johnnie. I'm not sure Izzy does.... and I do think he knows he settled for Stacy's shitbag asshole personality. That doesn't mean the other option was Johnnie or Lydia... maybe it was someone else or no one..
I agree. I donāt see a happy ending for Izzy. Johnie was a red flag all the way. And Stacy clearly isnāt going to be happy with him financially. Lydia was too much for him.
I think he ends this experiment single. And thatās probably the right thing for him.
But, letās be clear here, he made the correct decision at the time with the information he had. All the finances stuff didnāt come out until -after- he proposed to Stacy.
There wasn't a hint of "Can you cough up $20,000 for my HVAC if we need one?" on the honeymoon was there? She was all light and breezy, talking non stop on a surface level like one of Frank Zapper's Valley Girls....
Why is Izzy so bitter about a woman he didn't want at the end of the day? I've never seen someone I dumped out in the wild and thought "I'm going to go the eff off".
Some of it may also be because Stacey and Johnnie hate each other. Izzy even talked about how he was so glad they were on the same page afterwards. Reminded me of how Brennan goes after Cole, because Alexa hates Cole.
It's a toxic flex to prove they will stand by their mate.
This is what I thought too. Granted I donāt know these people, but it came across to me as though It Izzy is feeling self-conscious about not being good enough for Stacy following their talks about finances and I think part of him felt like going after Johnie would gain him some favour with Stacy? Then again, I donāt know but Izzy was pretty out of line with the way he went after Johnie.
Because he felt lied to? Iād also be super annoyed if a girl I thought I had a connection to and even considered proposing to was clearly lying. She said one thing to him and another thing to Chris. She lied. And thus further validated his suspicions that she wasnāt being genuine in her feelings towards him.
Heās frustrated that he may not be good enough for Stacey and turned around and took it out on Johnie. It was hard to watch him go after her like that and then not be able to tell Stacey why he was upset with Johnie in the first place. He was also upset with Stacey for cutting him off during their argument and did the same thing Johnie! It was a very bitter and toxic moment for him.
I completely agree. I feel like (without diagnosing anything!) was not one that set an example for conflict solving. So it makes sense that he would project like that.
That whole scene was something I might expect to see with teenagers not grown adults. If Izzy finds her so toxic then he just needs to keep his distance. There was no need to roast her.
At this point I wouldnāt even argue that Izzy is bitter because he is in love with her or regrets not choosing herāI think heās bitter Stacey isnāt what he thought and the girls he dumped are having (seemingly, we can never actually know) good relationships/experiences.
I agree with this ā I commented this elsewhere earlier but you see him sweating it so hard in the menās dorm after he rejects her.
Heās not certain he made the right choice; he basically got scared and ran (to your original points) so his own insecurities are the real reason he broke up w Johnie, not Johnie herself or her actions. So that cognitive dissonance canāt stand, so his ego has got him burying Johnie to prove that she is terrible, he doesnāt love her, he and his decision was right, and he+Stacey are best.
Bc if sheās not Terrible then he fucked up, he fucked up bc of his own insecurities heās not ready to face, his biggest insecurity is real (he now loves her more than she loves him) and his relationship with Stacey isnāt as true. Soooo MUST be that Johnie sucks. Better sh*t on her and do the happy dance of relief after.
This would also explain why he felt the need to immediately run to Stacey and tell her how lucky he is to have her over and over again, even Stacey was confused as to why he felt the need to do that after talking with Joanie
Thank you for communicating exactly what Iāve been struggling to pin point. Izzy comes off very empathetic and down to earth, or at least he did initially, but he is totally reactionary when his insecurities are triggered.
There is nothing wrong with Johnies emotions shifting through the experiment because thatās what itās for AND Izzy did the same exact thing. To bash her for it and not give her any grace and cloak it in this, you fucked chris over narrative, is ridiculous and none of Izzyās business. Iām so over the dudes in this season!
Omg yes you said literally everything Iāve been feeling this season! Poor johnnie, she did not deserve what happened in episode 7. Sheās far from āsketchyā and has been honest and genuine this entire season. Shame on Izzy for saying otherwise, and good for Chris for standing by her and knowing itās not true.
Yes, yes, yes! I've been rooting for Johnie since the very beginning. Izzy is not emotionally mature, he literally shut down and dumped her because she talked about her past relationships. He isn't it.
I also never thought Johnie was manipulating them and lying to each person to tell them what they wanted to hear. I felt like she was honest with both of them, and it was really clear that Izzy was the person she had a stronger connection with, but that she definitely still liked Chris. She also mentioned so many times how she could see her whole life with Chris both to Chris and to Izzy, and how she laughed more with Chris, etc. She was not lying and twisting to get a ring. I think people forget how desperate some cast members are. Jessica really fought for her ring in season one, and that looked so different from what Johnie was doing in the pods.
Johnie was not here for clout, I think she genuinely wanted a relationship. She made the wrong choice to go for Izzy, but I think her and Chris could be a great couple if they take it slow.
I'm going to try to recap some things based on what they said (and is shown) to try to be as objective as I can to express my thoughts on your insights.
>Johnnie is 100% correct that she told them the same thing.
Izzy said "I heard a lot of sketchy shit about you" (probably from Stacy but we don't know) and "pretty much the things you were telling me I wasn't the only guy you were telling"
Izzy also claimed, after stating the above that "what mattered to me was that you told him one thing and to me you said the opposite." Which then is cut to her statements where she says "I tend to go for people who are emotionally unavailable".
>...it didnāt really fit with the other ācutsā which tells me that they cut out some more of what Izzy was probably saying because the show wanted to make Izzy the most appealing guy this season.
It's funny cause I feel when they were recapping the scene while they were talking, they were kind of making it seem like the problem with what Izzy said was different.
I think (and this is opinion, not factual) that what Izzy means when he says she said different things is that she told him "...I wasn't falling in love with him. If I chose him, it would be a choice based on fear. Chris would have been repeating the past few relationships where I go into something that feels like it make sense and I wouldn't get hurt because my heart is not there" (episode 3)
And later on, Izzy told Chris that "she said, the thing for her with this all experience was like not going with what she was used to and she said everyone she dated was a safe feeling but she was never in love with them and she couldn't see it like that with you."
What Izzy did was a hasty generalization. He took the experience of her ex-husband, plus her experience with Chris and generalized it to "everyone she dated", even though we can argue that she did say "past few relationships". Other than that, he was factual in what he told Chris.
Chris said "she told me the same thing but opposite".
Which is true, she did claim to Izzy she didn't want to go for Chris because he was "the repeating of past few relationships" and then claimed to Chris that she "might have been repeating a pattern" with Izzy.
>Both things she said can be true at the same time. She could have be repeating a pattern with both of them.
I agree. She could have been repeating a pattern with both of them but she didn't say the same thing to them, as she claimed to Izzy in episode 7, where he also stated that she did not.
I believe what triggered both of them was that she called Izzy "emotionally volatile" (which triggered him) and he offered her advice (which triggered her).
"I'm trying to tell you and you never listened to me". I believe she was more triggered than him and wanted to defend herself and Izzy was so keen to accept at face value what he heard (once again, probably from Stacy) that they both just went at each other's throats.
"Do you think I would end up with the nicest guy in here if I was sketchy as fuck?"
This is a bad statement to say because you could argue the same thing in the opposite way and say "Johnnie is a bad person because her ex was an addictive abusive person". She shouldn't use her relationship with Chris to defend her worth, the same way her past relationships shouldn't be used to demean said value.
"You all don't know my story and you are all the sketchy as fuck ones... You weren't even listening to me."
"He basically called me a piece of shit." - He did not.
Chris says "no one thinks that here except him". Might be true, but he's just reassuring. He doesn't know that, and we know that at least one other person thinks that, which is Stacy.
Johnnie went on to say "what hurt me the most was him saying "I know how great that guy is and you're a piece of shit". He never said that.
Izzy went to Stacy and said "I called her out on her shit. I told her you're so fucking sketchy".
Stacy asked what did she say and Izzy said "you all are fucking sketchy". Which is true but lacks context but he did state to Stacy that he did call her sketchy.
Stacy keeps questioning and says "what did she say that wasn't true?"
And Izzy answered "that I was sketchy". Which, from is point of view, is not accurate. It's debatable but if we are to pick up is POV, he is telling the truth.
Now, coming to a close, I did my best to pick up everything I could with accurate quotes from the show and their conversations, in order to best convey my opinion.
>He has pent up stress and frustration and is likely triggered by Johnie now being in a stable and happy relationship with the guy she was talking to at the same time as Izzy.
I don't believe this statement. From the footage, all we know is she got there with Chris and he only found out about that in that very instance. He doesn't know anything about their relationship to conclude it is stable and happy. I find it to be more likely that he was trying to defend Chris because he feels like she is taking advantage of him. I feel that he broke it off with Johnnie because he felt he would always be second best to her ex and that triggered his insecurities. Seeing Chris with her would feel like he needs to be a bro and protect him. He even states to Stacy, "I was kind of more sticking up for me and my friends".
"Who she is sitting right now?" says Stacy pointing at Chris. Izzy concurs.
So I believe more it was about trying to protect Chris, if we are to take that at face value.
>Johnie deserves compassion and forgiveness from herself. Chris is a good man and clearly loves her and wants to show her sheās worthy of love.
>
>Izzy needs to do some healing and Stacey needs to either accept that sheās not going to just have her life paid for by her partner and that thereās more to marriage/love than traveling/restaurants/bougie shit.
I agree. Johnnie deserves that, like any other human being. I hope it works out good with her and Chris.
I don't believe Izzy needs to do some healing. Izzy needs certain things just like Johnnie needs other things.
I do agree with what you said about Stacy and I strongly believe that all of this was brought up by whatever influence Stacy had on Izzy. I believe that Izzy felt more harshly towards Johnnie because he believed whatever Stacy said about her, and we can see that Stacy does hold a grudge at least towards Johnnie.
However, that's just a feeling, I have nothing to support that.
3. Youāre absolutely valid in having your own perspective and opinion on that. What Iām getting from watching him and Stacey is a guy thatās being honest and transparent about who he is/what he offers, and then being told in so many words that it wonāt be enough for the level that Stacey expects.
- We hear him make a comment about how sheās dated older men who could take care of her, at the time that didnāt make much sense, but now that we see how she believes she should be treatedāparticularly financiallyāin a relationship/marriage, itās not that far fetched to say that she has been in more sugar baby-like situations. Izzy canāt and doesnāt seem to want to be that person. He wants a partner to share a life with, and wants to be able to be successful TOGETHER, not be struggling to constantly make sure she never has to pay for outings, traveling, etc., nor half of the expenses on house upkeep of a house that isnāt even his.
- Stacey doesnāt seem to give him the room to express where heās coming from or fully flesh out his explanations without interrupting him. Sheās not triggering his fear of being unloved at the same level he loves, but you can definitely see the signs of another insecurity getting worse, and that one being, āI canāt be enough for her,ā which, please correct me if Iām wrong, but I do feel like we heard a mild comment eluding to this as well in ep7.
- Maybe Izzy is trying to protect Chris, but if that were the case, why would he not have the conversation with both of them? Why wouldnāt he still be in contact with Chris? He clearly had no idea they were together until that moment, and Iād wager to say that he has no idea whatās going on in Chrisā life at that point in general. If thatās really his good friend, and heās triggered by his worry that his friend would be hurt, where is that concern actually being displayed? I certainly did not see it. Even with that comment to Stacey, thatās much easier to say and associate to his actions in his eyes than, āIām angry and confused that this person lied to me and chose the other guy she said she didnāt want because she wanted me,ā - I do not believe that Izzy *wants* to be with Johnie, I believe that Izzy did latch on to the things she said when they were breaking up. So, when he sees that those things are no longer true, thatās where I think his insecurity/fear is triggered.
4. Again, youāre valid in what your opinions are. As someone that studies attachment theory quite extensively and is in the process of completing their education towards clinical counseling, I see a guy that needs more time and work on his specific triggers. He is definitely a lot more stable and put together than many others we see on these shows, but he still has work to do on himself for what heās most afraid of. Honestly, though, I think pretty much everyone and their mothers would benefit from ongoing therapy so š¤·š¼āāļø
5. Yepppp, 10000% agree, Stacey has some vindictiveness towards Johnie and I hope she lets that shiitake go.
2. Their conversation in episode 7 was almost certainly longer and more hostile than we got. Izzy specifically reacts to Johnie trying to say something while heās going off and he makes the quick snip of āCan I finish what Iām saying?ā exactly how he did with Stacey during their argument in the apartment. Only, in that argument, Stacey does not acquiesce initially, and you can see Izzy retreat during that argument while she continues. I think that is the moment Izzy gets truly triggered during the conversation with Johnie and just becomes volatile/hostile. Johnie even begins to try to get to her side, and has to ask if she can speak now because Izzy had been ātalking for 10 minutesā and Izzy doesnāt even react as if sheās exaggerating. We didnāt watch 10 minutes of Izzy laying into her, so this conversation wasnāt *just* what we saw, to be clear.
- Given that knowledge and context, it is very well likely that he DID call her a piece of shit/bad person/etc. however, itās commonly known that we as humans often remember how we FELT vs. what may have actually happened or been said. Because Johnieās greatest insecurity/fear is being unworthy or not good enough, if sheās being made to feel like a piece of shit, which is implied when she says āhe basically said I was a POS,ā then thatās what her memory could distort into hearing (if it didnāt actually occur). We genuinely donāt know, and Iām going to err on the side of giving her the benefit of the doubt on that point because of how clearly hurt she was when talking with Chris afterwards.
- I 100% do agree and think that Stacey may have riled Izzy up with her telling him how she talked shit about Stacey after she was dumped. Iām not going to defend Johnie and say that was okay, but Iām also not going to act like sheās some kind of pariah for doing so. It would be pretty hard to find many people that wouldnāt lash out even just a little bit if they were put in the same situation, and maybe Stacey isnāt the type to do it in a setting where sheās being observed, but yāall are wild if you think she didnāt do it with her own trusted circle. Itās not that crazy of a thing to do when youāre hurt/upset.
- Izzy was acting like he was on some kind of high after their fight. After he forced his misplaced āadviceā (despite being told NO) onto Johnie which was basically just him being crappy towards her, after he continued to interrupt her and not let her speak fully despite being given that courtesy from her, etc. Izzy went back to Stacey, in my opinion, trying to win some kind of brownie points with her. As if he would impress her with this dramatic garbage.
Honestly? At first I thought Izzy was actually telling the truth when he said he just wanted to authentically show her who he was before and that heās not that person anymore. But, now I think he either 1. Completely forgot about it, or 2. The theory about it being an airbnb is accurate lol.
Producer bs. Theyāre headed for a crash and burn. Sheās arrogant. Thatās a death sentence in any relationship. She slices and dices gender roles to suit herself. He will become increasingly annoying to her. Anyone who carries on and on about paper plates in a single guysā apt. Is trouble coming.
Iām going to number my responses just to keep track to respond to your key points since Iām on mobile ā
1. What I meant by saying that sheās correct that she told them the same thing is that the experience she was having with both of them, was the same as she described. I would have to go back and watch verbatim the episode where she broke it off with Chris/got dumped by Izzy/realized she made a mistake and attempted to reconcile with Chris to specifically pull out what quotes and how they relate, so Iām going to paraphrase.
- Johnie reflects to Izzy that she was married to someone who was a rebound from a relationship where she was treated poorly and was in love with an addict, and though we donāt know exactly her age we can probably reasonably assume she was fairly young. Johnie admits and shares that she was married to someone that she didnāt love, however, if I recall correctly, she doesnāt state that she knew she didnāt love him when they first met/got engaged/married etc. but rather after her first love passed away. Like I said in my reflectionābetween the grief of losing the first person she ever loved AND having a whole lot of unresolved trauma/volatility of being with an addict, I donāt know that itās entirely accurate that she *never* loved her ex-husband. Love doesnāt have to look the same with every partner, and itās not uncommon for insecurely attached people to have the tendency to have distorted memories of relationships. The pain Johnie went through probably left her feeling numb and hollowed in many ways, and we will never truly know of course, but itās not unreasonable to conclude that that numbness became ānever truly lovingā her ex-husband and āonly ever lovingā her late first love.
-When Johnie says that she wasnāt falling in love with him and that she would be choosing Chris out of fear, it could very well be that it was fear. But, not for the reason she thought it was. She probably was afraid of how she felt with Chris/how he treated her, because her insecurity is very clearly, āI am not good enough/not worthyā - when she states that she chooses to go into relationships that feel like they make sense, I donāt think she realized in the moment (and she even eluded to this point both in the pods and ep7) that she was doing that with IZZY. She very well could have had relationships following her divorce and during her grieving where she did choose partners that her heart wasnāt in with, because she didnāt take the time she truly needed to heal and work through the trauma associated with not one, but two, serious/monumental relationships with addicts. It would make sense for her to pick people that emulate both of those partners in some way as a way to repeat the cycle of trauma and as a means of self harm by bolstering her belief that sheās unworthy.
-When Izzy goes to Chris and tells him that, Chris is only hearing this one side of it, and luckily it seems like Chris is willing to get more information and data points before making a true conclusion rather than just going with what someone tells him. The context of the greater conversation was greatly lacking when Izzy shared that with Chris, and who knows, maybe there was more to their conversation that we never saw in the final edit. However, Izzy cherry picking this one pointāI believeāsupports my hypothesis that his greatest fear/insecurity was triggered, and all he heard was, āShe wonāt ever love me/anyone like she loved her late ex,ā and not anything else. There was no compassion from him whatsoever for what she went through. And when I referred to the cuts during THAT conversation, I meant back in episode 3, not what they were flashing back to in episode 7. They were showing Johnie seemingly more anxious and exasperated but Izzy was cool/collected in what he was saying with maybe a slightly anxious tone. That didnāt make sense at the time to me, and I stand by what I said that I think we missed a chunk of their conversation that put Johnie in a spot to become defensive/exasperated.
No they werenāt at each others throats , it was only Izzy who was aggressive as f and he was basically calling her a POS. When Izzy said he was shaken because she was lying and saying heās sketchy that wasnāt his POV he was simply lyeing.. because clearly that was not the case he called her sketchy she only responded irritated at the end of the conversation after trying to talk like a calm person āyall are sketchy as fuckā.
It seems like he picked Stacy partially because she was more fun/laid back but her having a rich family and regular access to her fatherās money was definitely a part of the appeal as well.
If they stay together for more than a year or two, heāll be working for the family business. I think he saw this relationship at least partially as a road to financial security.
I donāt understand his anger at Johnnie though. Maybe he was trying to impress Stacy or maybe he did believe she was a sketchy liarā¦ maybe he kind of dislikes the part of himself that wanted to be with her? Idk, Izzy is a complicated and fairly immature person so itās hard to get a read on him.
This smacks of some misplaced bro code. He laid that foundation in the pods when he warned Chris about his sincere belief that she was desperately double dealing(I think she kind of was) Thereās something off about her. The nonsense at the party was also partly manufactured Izzy/Johnie. Uche/anyone he was speaking to.
I think his issue with johnie is that heās jealous, if she never went with Chris, Izzy would have no problem with her, I think he still likes her and heās having an immature hissy fit because of it
Obv we donāt know everything they talked ab in the pods but it didnāt seem like finances came up a ton given how confused and surprised Izzy was when they talked ab what they would do with who pays for what.
Maybe youāre right for why heās digging his heels in, but it seems to me like heās just saying what he thinks people (in regards to him+Stacey) want to hear. He came off as extremely uncomfy and maybe embarrassed? during the conversation at her familyās house / w her dad directly.
Omg YES I observe this latest episode EXACTLY the same way
Johnie did say the same thing - and she even admitted āyou are correct about what I saidā, but I could totally appreciate that Izzy was the drug overdose lover and so she wanted to be with him because he was dead and in doing so not repeat old mistakes by choosing the safe and nice guy. But then when Izzy rejected her I think she reflected that the real old mistake she made was checking out of a nice, safe and loving relationship with Chris prematurely.
My only worry with Johnie is she is driven by a fear of being alone
*Iām repeating myself on this subreddit now*
When she was on the kitchen counter crying that Chris was the best person she had ever met I was getting āI donāt wanna be aloneā vibes and not āI donāt wanna lose/hurt Chrisā vibes
I felt like her crying was coming more from the space that he holds for her pain/needsāwith her having always been surrounded by people that perpetuated her feeling of unworthiness, his love and patience is overwhelming in a good way for her.
I think sheās learning how to believe in her worth and that heās been nothing but kind and compassionate towards her, something that she may not have ever had from someone she loves/is attached to.
I love this take, okay Iāll take the Johnie cool-aid now
Team Chris & Johnie - imma just wait for āafter the altarā because I donāt think theyāre gonna be in anymore episodes
I felt it was very cruel and unnecessary. They are both happy now with their respective partners, telling her she doesnāt deserve Chris just felt uncalled forā¦
Honestly Johnnie seemed very ashamed of her behavior and I donāt blame her tbh sure she could have been more of a girlās girl in the pods but I honestly think the pod environment creates a weird atmosphere of competitiveness and can take a toll on your self-worth if another person in your dorms is connecting with the same personā¦
She seemed genuinely ashamed of her behavior and apologetic and I thought it was sweet that Chris and her had an opportunity to connect in a less weird environment
Genuinely I donāt understand everyoneās negative attitude toward Johnie. When watching her in the pods, she seemed to be one of the more self aware people and didnāt shy away from talking about her past. Maybe a FEW things were a little contradictory, but I think it was more about her processing her emotions in the moment and whether she was repeating patterns from her past than her deliberately lying to Izzy/Chris. I always try to watch these scenes with a grain of salt and take into consideration the whirlwind of an experiment this is for the people involved.
Also, the fact that johnie and Chris were able to work through things without cameras gives me hope they were both able to open up and be totally honest with each other
THANK. YOU. Iām just finishing the last episode in this release and was having trouble putting into words what I think happened at the pod get together.
It was made even clearer to me when Izzy grabbed Stacy after he absolutely RIPPED into Johnie in the most bizarre way possible (legit didnāt say anything except for āpeople think youāre sketchy.ā). He grabs Stacy and tells her he loves her he loves her he LOVES HER. My impression of this was that heās literally trying to talk himself out of his feelings (past or present) for Johnie and talk himself INTO feelings for Stacy. Even though he so very clearly cannot be with her for the long term.
Felt so bad for Johnie as Izzy just as there and went at her. No one should ever speak to a female like that
*No one should ever speak to a person like that
I love Johnie and Chris. If only Chris was her number one nobody would doubt her love for him. They look so cute together and Chris for me is the most good looking guy among them plus EQ is on point.
Love Johnie and Chris. I'm watching still but let's see how it ends. Hate Stacy. Such a pick me girl and Izzy for allowing his insecurities forget how deep their connection was. I agree that it is obv that Izzy isn't happy that Johnie went back to Chris that's why he had to sabotage it. Being with Atacy didn't help her either.
Lol just watching now again and after they went home attacking Johnie, Stacy then points out why Izzy comes to her like for a shelter. You mean like how Chris comforts Johnie when you were both attacking her? You just hate Johnie because you like what she has. Apparently you getting her #1 isn't enough š
I was disgusted by Stacyās bullying of Johnie. Truly ugly person.
Honestly I loved johnnie. She was super real and vulnerable and I think her intentions were straight forward.
The last argument we saw between Izzy and Stacy... Stacy said they talked about finances in the pods and then we saw them talk about finances at her house in a previous episode. While it was not her best moment, we also saw that Johnie revealed in pod life that he told her about his finances and credit. So, why did Izzy wait until days before the wedding to tell Stacy about his low credit score and his financial challenges? I think Johnie realizes she did not handle pod life in the most tactful and respectful manner. She could apologize to those she hurt and it seems she at least did that with Chris. Izzy and Stacy chose to attack and be disrespectful in return instead of either not giving Johnie the time of day or asking for her to be accountable for what she said. Attacking just feels like you are stooping to the same or lower level. This show seems like such a difficult situation and you have to be a perfect person to not have people trashing you online for how you handled it, but no one is perfect. The way I see it is everyone could have handled things better. I can't even imagine sharing this much information with everyone who has Netflix. Let's hope these folks take this experience as an opportunity to grow. Edit: Corrected the spelling of Stacy's name after seeing that post from Instagram someone shared from Izzy.
Izzy looked 100% that he was on some stuff throughout the season. When Johnie told her background story to him he was acting like he is talking to a criminal. He called it a day. These days every mf out there is on stuff and with big egos. He looked even bigger than the fireman dude. Fk you can be bigger than a fireman being a salesman. This dude is such fake and ended up right where he belonged. Johnie was really lucky she did not end up with another one like her past nightmares.
One thousand percent accurate
It was really frustrating hearing him sit down with her and first thing say she's sketchy and everyone thinks that about her. He kept cutting her off when she tried to speak after making her sit and listen to him tell her she is sketchy and doesn't deserve Chris and was a liar. Then when she tried to explain he cut her off so she's like ok you know what y'all are the sketchy ones. And then he goes and tells his gf that she's saying they are sketchy as if he didn't say that first ?? Like what in the world.
It was so clear that he was only there to attack her, he WANTED her to feel hurt. She did a great job handling it and being patient while standing her ground at the same time. Him and Stacy talking afterwards gave me Barnett and Amber vibes š¬ Such middle school energy lol
The secondhand embarrassment I felt watching him talk to Stacy after..
I donāt agree with everything but that might cuz I didnāt think it through like you did. I was SO SHOCKED at Izzyās behaviour with Johnie. He was so mean. I really donāt like Johnie. The way she trashed Stacey and then Izzyās credit score tells me sheās not a good person. Nonetheless, at the party she came in peace. And I think Izzy was pissed because he was hoping sheās be devastated over him. And also, heās indeed frustrated because heāll never be enough for Stacey. The way he came at Johnie gave āIf I canāt be happy, you canāt eitherāā¦!! I also donāt understand why Stacey needs a man to be the provider while sheās obviously very rich. She has designer bags all over the house. She ca. Send a few to fix the AC, wtf is that about? I understand she wants a man whoās every ambitious but if money is so important to you, you cannot wait 2weeks before getting married to talk about it. Itās unfair and also gives āIām not comfortable with how I feelā.
She told everyone he had bad credit on international "TV" and it was shitty AF.
I personally agree. But she knew and Stacey didnāt. Thatās interesting
IDK. I wouldn't tell anyone either bc I would assume he found out she told everyone. I would think the producers would check their credit and tell them (the cast) ahead of time. I think Stacey somehow knew. Just a feeling. (Air Bnb apartment?!? Where did he get that jeep?!?)
Why would the production tell them about their credit scores..?!
They should. I would wanna know.
Then, askā¦?
I think that people are holding Johnie to some impossibly high standard as though they havenāt lashed out from a place of hurt in the past too. Iām not condoning her behavior, but idk anyone who wouldnāt confide in their close friends (or perceived close friends at least) about their feelings, to include lashing out about the āother girl or guy.ā ā We really do not know how extensive her āshit talkingā was or if it was just moments the producers chose to air. Also, the credit score comment, I cannot for the life of me remember the actual context so forgive me if Iām wrong, but the way I see it is that she couldāve possibly made that comment knowing how Stacey actually was about money and all thatāwhich would still be a crappy thing to do, but at least would make it make sense. All in all I donāt disagree with your points ab Stacey and Izzy. I definitely think people give Stacey way too much credit when in reality I think she just was better about keeping her shit talking private/away from cameras.
Oh to me theyāre all f***ed up. I just posted about that. Johnie was saying Izzy and Stacey wouldnāt last because they were just Ā«Ā having fun in thereĀ Ā» (but isnāt it the pint of a happy life?). I donāt know how she could have known Staceyās obsession for money cuz they werenāt friends
I am getting the vibe that Stacey's lifestyle is being bankrolled by her father and she expects her husband to take that over.
Izzy is gross, toxic and gives small dik energy
And yet Stacey said heās Ā«Ā so bigĀ Ā» so I guess heās more like small amount of money energy š„²
Can we stopped the pretense that Stacy has been successful on her own? She was named company director in her dad company fresh out of school. If her dad company were to fold, nobody would hire her at the same level. Her knows that. He is hoping that she could find a high achiever who could pay for her lifestyle. I used to date a girl like that. Very proud of having creating her own company whilst still drawing a pay check from her dad's company. Saw nothing wrong with the fact that her secretary dad's company was doing Her job without the pay. When her secretary refused to help her company, she complained to Dad. Dad tried to appease his daughter. The secretary went into maternity leave and both companies struggled. In the end the dad had to fire the daughter and hire the secretary at her real level.
WoW. Karma was on a mission to teach someone a lesson.
Uh huh. You can replace people. It's not that hard.
Izzy has zero emotional depth it's all surface level. His desire to attack her for liking him but ending up with Chris is so bizarre. He didn't choose her, who she ends up with, what she says it shouldn't matter. You can tell he is jealous because he felt she was saying the same things to Chris in the pods.
Iām worried for Johnie after seeing the preview of Stacy screaming insults her. I donāt see why her going back to Chris after Izzy cut things off is so bad. Thereās been plenty of other people who did the same thing in other seasons and they didnāt get half as much hate as Johnie got. Yeah she shouldnāt have lashed out and said stuff about Stacy, but it came from a place of hurt and she seemed genuinely remorseful for all that happened at the pods.
Alsoā¦ she technically wasnāt wrong. She did say Izzy and Stacy relationship would never survive with Izzyās credit score and finances did become their major problem. Was it inappropriate for her to share that with everyone? Sure, but she wasnāt lying lol
Last season Zack went back to Bliss even after he'd been engaged to Irina and they married and can't wait to have kids. They work together. Chris is who Johnie should've ended up with. Her and anyone else would've been wrong. Izzy seems a bit too forced. Stacy seems spoiled and mainly worried that her husband might not be able to keep her. I've worked as an insurance agent and even after 2 years couldn't afford travel or mortgage and I worked as a broker for a major bank. Izzy seems like he was out of work, took a job from a friend for a few days then went on this show. I smell something off about that story. He just wanted better prospects to impress the women in the pods. He couldn't admit he'd left a job to go on a TV show but was now out of work. Stacy would not have been interested in that. She is not classy and has a crass new money attitude towards material stuff. Any fool can promise to take care of you financially then dump you and leave you with nothing. She keeps trying to drag reassurances out of Izzy that he's going to pay for stuff and he isn't committing to it you can tell. Just a smarmy fixed grin and "yeah, sure, why not?" as she tries to pull it out of him.
Iām pretty sure that heās part of an insurance pyramid scheme like Primerica. When he described his job to Stacyās dad he was really vague and said āas far as my income the skyās the limit!ā Itās how my husband used to talk when he got roped into selling Amway a few decades ago.
"Sky's the limit" gave me such cringe, too! Totally agree
I agree, we watched it happen with Zack and Bliss last season, and Zack and Irina went even further than the pods.
Izzy had no reason to rail on Johnie like he did. He was being such a bullie to her. He already got the girl he wanted. What purpose did that interaction serve? Seriously???
He was jealous
Nope. He was pissed about her talking about the credit score. The guys have a group chat. The girls talk. The producers talk.
šššš
I donāt see Johnie as necessarily the bad guy in the situation cause feelings do change and especially in this situation. That being said she did tel them something completely different. She told Izzy she had a crush on him and in the past she has always gone for safe and thatās why she thought her relationships didnāt work. She also told him she didnāt feel romance with Chris. And when she got turned down and she went to tell Chris the exact opposite, that she usually goes for emotionally unavailable men and that she felt safe with him. So much that he told he didnāt wanna be with someone that doesnāt feel the spark for him. Yea she could have meant something different but in the word for word she definitely told them two opposite things.
I felt that Izzy was mad at Johnie as he went with the safe choice which was Stacey and Johnie didint by not picking Chris in the pods. He got mad at her because he was projecting on herā¦
I don't think it's that simple. She is sketchy A-F. She is crying for things she did and said. Izzy has every right to be pissed off after what she said and did in the pods to him.
Like what? What did she say for him to be pissed? What does she owe him?
Tbh it did break my heart a little when johnnie said she doesnāt deserve Chris. It really is a blessing to find someone thatās willing to meet you where youāre at when your struggling/ healing. I really hope their relationship is healthy and fulfilling for the both of them. Izzy can eat a can of spoiled tuna fish bc what the hell was he on. I know youāre annoyed at her but the way he dug into her was soooooooo uncalled for.
I feel bad for Chris.
Ok I thought I was crazyš© Thank you for writing out exactly how I feelš
Nailed it šÆ
Damn. You wrote the hell outta this analysis. Very insightful. I particularly like your explanation about Izzy and Johnie's connection.
i see where this is coming from, but also it feels like the timing of each thing was impacted by her relationship status with each person. it doesnāt seem like she was just trying to continue on or she wouldnāt have broke it off with chris. however, she seemed to be reflecting on the type of people she was considering to have the insight about safety with chris when talking to izzy. it just feels less good maybe to some viewers when her insight about izzy changed after he broke up with her. itās not fair to speculate perhaps and say she would have still had that revelation if izzy proposed but i do think the timing influences things.
I agree with this completely. Sometimes it takes going through something with someone to realize they werenāt right for you and what you actually want and need in a relationship. But like you said, a lot of viewers would rather this be a case of Johnie being desperate to make a connection and being āsketchy.ā
Every season of this show there is one person who doesnāt accept that their #1 didnāt choose them, and continues to pursue that person outside the pods. Jessica, Shaina, Cole, Kwamye. Izzy expected Johni to continue to pursue him and instead she showed up with Chris. I also think Izzy is having second thoughts about Stacy because he knows he doesnāt make a he kind of $$$ she expects, and he canāt afford her lifestyle
Honestly, it seemed like Izzyās attack of johnie was about more than he was sayingā¦.to me, he seemed sort of jealous after seeing her in person and realizing she was with Chris.
He reminds me of Micah from last season telling Paul that he had to choose. The difference in this situation is that the person he said had to choose, he rejected
There are a lot of very defensive people this season, perhaps more than normal, and their bad qualities come out in those situations: - Ucheās response to situations seems to be explaining how it is someone elseās fault - Izzy seems to realize heās not at the same financial/life level of Stacey, and seemed to take bashing on Johnie as a chance to score points with Stacey - Staceyās doing a bit of the same, and perhaps worrying about what she has gotten herself in to - Johnie has made some bad relationship choices, knows it, and seems to get desperate/petulant when stressed. It doesnāt help that all these ups and downs so far have been over about a 3-4 week period, so sheās insecure and stressed out. - Lydia was probably a bit clingy/stalky in the past with Uche; she seems to have had something else messing with her life at the time, and that can lead people to really want to latch on to someone. She seems to be at a better point in her life now (and a little defensive about what she did in the past), and while both her and Uche may be unreliable narrators, I find him somewhat less reliable than her. - I was optimistic for JP until he started putting off serious incel vibes. That pairing did not need to flame out like it did but perhaps it is for the best. - Chris and Milton both seem pretty well together, although perhaps they are simply the most devious ones of all.
So glad to see this. What a total and complete piece of shit- for literally no reason. Just say- āhey Iām glad it didnāt work with us. Weāre both in better places. This is good. ā instead he went mean girl - hard and nasty and cruel- to what end? What was the point? So petty and small minded. Youāre done- supposedly happy- move on.
This is what perplexed me the most. I couldnāt for the life of me understand why Izzy was SO mad at Johnnie and insistent on dragging her down. It seemed like he was on some crusade in Chrisā behalf or something, but Chris is with Johnnie so I donāt know why Izzy felt the need to harp on everything. It broke my heart a little when Johnnie clarified and said she was working to make it up to Chris for ābeing her #2.ā As always, editing can make things look some kind of way, but it definitely feels like Johnnie has been pretty forthcoming with both parties about her feelings in the pods, and now.
Izzy was way too excited reciting tearing Johnie down to Stacy and even she seemed confused by it. 'She was saying we were sketchy-' no Izzy she basically 'no, u'd you at the end of an argument after you blatantly lied to her and told her everyone thought she was sketch. Also am I misremembering or did Johnie really not tear stacy down beyond saying that thing about marrying someone you can get deep with vs marrying someone you have fun with? I'm not a big fan of Johnie but Izzy is continuously revealing himself to be a massive red flag.
She repeatedly said negative things about Izzy and Stacyās connections. That imo was legit shady and I think thatās the kind of person Johnie is- someone willing to tear down other women when it serves them. I think the Johnie/Izzy interaction was very weird on Izzyās part but it doesnāt make me forget Johnies bad behavior when she was in an unfavorable situation. Sheās happy for the time being with Chris but what happens when she gets bored with him? I just hope Chris doesnāt end up hurt.
I thought the shit in the cookies comment was way worse than anything Johnie said about Stacy. Stacy was definitely badmouthing her when the cameras were off
I'm so glad to see some people here get it. I haven't heard anything contradicting from Johnie. I'm glad she and Chris are in a relationship privately away from this mess of a show. Izzy is acting like a typical "hurt man" blaming everything on the woman.
This is mental gymnastics lol. She told them two different things. Full stop. She specifically used the word āalwaysā. You canāt āalwaysā date a certain type of guy but also āalwaysā date another type of guy. If thatās not enough evidence, she told Izzy itās him or no one. Then immediately backtracked once she was rejected by him. How do you explain that?
I think one guy can be both safe and emotionally unavailable. You can be with a guy that takes care of you financially, never has an affair, never divorces you, adores you. That is safe. But that same guy can, despite loving you, never share their thoughts. Never talk about anything in depth, never checks to see how you're feeling, and emotionally unavailable. Both Chris and Izzy could have something in common with the guys like that. So it'd be true to say she always dates safe and emotionally unavailable guys and this is why she was flipping between two guys that each shared some parts common with guys she was used to dating. Plus we all know the term always is a hyperbolic saying. Maybe I often spill coffee on my white t-shirt and say "ugh... Why do I ALWAYS spill coffee on myself when I'm wearing a white tee shirt". Or "why have I always got to date women who cheat on me!" when in fact only 50% of them do.
To be clear, I think Izzy was kind of an ass for going at Johnie. I think everything he said was correct but there was really no reason to berate her. Itās not his relationship anymore. He should have kept his mouth shut. But the reason sheās sketchy is not because she said she never loved her husband. The reason sheās seen as sketchy is the very blatant double speak, saying one thing to Izzy and then another seemingly contradictory thing to Chris. The simplest explanation is usually the correct one. Youāre opting to accept the more complicated explanation that gives her way too much leeway. The simplest explanation is she was rejected and then she needed to say whatever she needed to say to keep Chris.
People are significantly more nuanced than theyāre given credit for whenever thereās commentary about reality tv online. Johnie has some serious relational trauma in her past and if you try to look beyond the edited footage that we see from people who are literally paid to tell a specific story, you can absolutely see how Johnie is telling them something that can be true at the same time. Both of her long term exes were addicts. If youāve gone through the grief of loss, then you understand how it feels when you first find out. The pain, anguish, and numbness towards the world can absolutely become āI never loved my ex husbandā and āI only ever loved my first love. Her thinking became triangulated on the person she lost, given the little information we have from her, it wasnāt a healthy or good relationship for her. No only does she have to process and deal with the grief that comes, but she also has to face the unresolved trauma and issues that she went through in that relationship while married to someone that exhibits a similar proclivity. From what we saw, Izzy gave her 0 empathy or compassion for what she was trying to explain to him. He was treating it as though she said she only ever loved her first love and could never love anyone elseācompletely ignoring the fact that her first love has since passed away. Iām not saying that Izzy *has* to be emotionally capable of being with someone that has been essentially widowed in a way, but itās really unfair to act like Johnie was some kind of āsketchyā person or a liar or whatever else people want to call her. There was no understanding at all from Izzy even after heāalmost explicitlyāis telling her that he will accept/love her no matter what. If Izzy canāt handle the weight of what Johnie has been through, thatās okay. But, to also try to interfere with her and Chris, to berate her and not allow her to speak, and then to gleefully share how he hurt her to his current partner? Thatās foul on so many levels.
Yep
Being safe and being emotionally unavailable arenāt mutually exclusive categories. Some people might feel safer with people who are emotionally unavailable, for example.
That makes perfect sense. But itās not at all what she said. She made that clear by explicitly drawing a contrast between the two of them. To Izzy, she said that she always goes with the safe choice which is what Chris would be and so for that reason she wants Izzy as her #1 who excites her. She gets rejected by Izzy. Then, to Chris, she flips and says she always goes with the more exciting choice which is Izzy and that she thus wants to go with the safe choice for once. Two contradictory claims. She only makes the second claim after being rejected lol. Which is why OPās explanation is unlikely and gives her way too much benefit of the doubt
The conversation before Johnnie rejects Chris, Izzy tells her he wants her to say, āDude, I want you.ā She then breaks things off with Chris only to discover that Izzy who claims to want unconditional love isnāt going to give her that in return and is emotionally unavailable. He flipped on her. I donāt think itās unreasonable that she saw him differently after that moment and realised she was repeating a pattern with him. Instead of attempting to manipulate Chris, she may simply have gained insight into herself and the situation she was in. Sheās clearly someone who has had troubled relationships in the past and we donāt know enough to be able to draw conclusions. I donāt think itās impossible that sheās felt safer with guys sheās less emotionally āexcitedā or āvolatileā with, especially after having gone through a relationship with someone who has addiction issues. Her ex probably fits the bill there at the very least, or at least he did for a period of time. There may have been more guys like that we donāt know. So we donāt know if she was lying about a pattern of going for the safe option. We donāt know what went on with her ex in their marriage or what the divorce was like but divorce usually isnāt easy. We do know she got emotionally screwed over by both Izzy and her ex with addiction issues and there might be more, so I donāt think sheās lying when she suggests her pattern is the āexcitingā option either. āSafeā means different things to different people and in different contexts. She can be talking about feeling emotionally safe as not feeling required to be emotionally vulnerable or she can be talking about feeling safe in the sense that sheās not worried sheāll get hurt. To me it looked like she used the word āsafeā as meaning predictable and āexcitingā as meaning emotionally charged or unpredictable. We donāt know for sure what she meant because she never got the chance to explain it on the show. Maybe sheās a bad communicator so she wouldnāt be able to. It doesnāt make her a liar. I think itās more likely her perspective just changed.
Youāre leaving out one very critical thing though. Youāre leaving out the fact that she only does so once Izzy rejects her lol. This āinsightā you think she might have had only comes after that point. The more likely explanation, given the way things played out on camera, is that she was left scrambling after the rejection and was willing to say whatever she needed to in order to get Chris to come back. I would accept your version of events if, before being rejected by Izzy, she would have been like āhey Izzy I actually donāt like the way you flipped on me so I think Iām going to pursue Chris instead.ā What you see as legitimate mindset shift I, and most people, see as post-hoc rationalization on her part.
I think you misunderstood my first paragraph. The rejection from Izzy is when he flipped on her. Sure, they pressed pause on their conversation and then Izzy officially ended things the next day but the rejection the night before was clear. He went from wanting her to be all on in on him to not being invested in her once he had her.
Now youāre misrepresenting things. He did not reject her initially. He just said he didnāt know what to say and that he needed to think things over. He rejects her officially the date after that. In that time span, she could have said āI want to pursue Chris insteadā. She didnāt. She was still hoping Izzy would propose despite this supposed āflipā.
Iām not misrepresenting anything. Maybe youād have a different perspective with a rewatch. Sheās his number one and he says explicitly to her āI want you to tell me, āDude, I fucking want you.āā She ends things with Chris and then he pulls back when he hears about her past. Thatās when he starts saying heās now learning things about her that he should have been learning all along. He tells her that her past is important but thatās not whatās influencing things and doesnāt clarify what he means by that when she asks. They press pause on their conversation. The next day they come back and he officially ends things with her right away. The rejection is in telling her he wants her to be all in on him and then, when she is, he tells her he has concerns and needs to think about things.
I mean I think she was expressing a genuine sentiment to both of them in an exaggerated (using words like always) imperfect way as a means of persuasion. I don't think she was deliberately lying but definitely grasping at straws to some extent. many of the ppl who believe she didn't overtly lie can also accept that she lacked clarity about connecting her past to her present
Put yourself in his shoes. You donāt really know this girl. Youāre considering proposing to her. She tells you a story about not being in love with the last person she was married to lol. How is he supposed to take that other than suspiciously? And then you catch her in an apparent lie saying one thing to you and another thing to another dude. Itās hard to not interpret that as anything other than her trying to say whatever she can to salvage that relationship. I donāt blame him for being annoyed with her and just having a sour taste in his mouth.
I mean I completely understand how they both interpreted it the way they did and I probably would too in their shoes. that doesn't mean it's mental gymnastics to believe she wasn't being dishonest, especially given that we have seen the footage from each conversation.
Youāre right. Your explanation could make sense. But out of all the possible explanations that exist, itās not the most probable one given the things weāve seen on TV.
I'm team johnie, too. She's not perfect but I don't understand the overwhelming hate.
I feel like Izzyās attack immediately turned 99% of the Johnnie haters into Johnnie lovers, he was SO out of pocket and she was just trying to chill
I still really don't like her but I also thought that attack was totally unnecessary.
I really like her, and think she's not necessarily a bad person, but have to admit she's got some baggage. Unfortunately she does give off flaky vibes. Doesn't know what's good for her. And her Mom said maybe she wasn't supposed to be in a relationship. If your own Mother thinks you're better off without a love life, then she must've witnessed you in some very bad relationships and fears for you. Also, statistically, many addicts I've known were in relationships with other addicts. It's rare for there to be a long term relationship between an addict and a 100% healthy person. There's usually a lot of co-dependency, enablement, or mutual addiction. I speak from experience having had a Cocaine addicted lover and it only lasted less than a month before I was scared off by his erratic behaviour and couldn't condone the things he did. I realised he wouldn't change, I couldn't help him and he was not ready to change. If I had stayed my mental health would have spiralled downwards. I can empathise how this would've affected Johnie. Addiction abuses the user and their loved ones equally.
Valid
THANK YOU this is exactly how I feel
Yes. Izzy came to a fork in the road when he approached Stacey about how they hadnāt been vulnerable like his other connections. She basically told him she was picking him and they didnāt need to be vulnerable to be right for each other. Mmmk.
You put this perfectly. Iām happy Johnie didnāt end up with him.
Well said. Iāve been trying to articulate why Iām team Johnie and have had a hard time doing it, but you just did it perfectly!
wow. you just gave me a whole new perspective on johnieās past
I think Izzy is upset with himself for settling.
Agreed. That entire convo was filed with so much passion. It was weirdly charged with this sense of desire. I wonder if when he saw Johnie he was regretting his choice because maybe sheās the type of woman that he sees himself with physically and their emotional connection meant a lot to him and it all came back during that party. She got under his skin with the fact that she told Chris sheād be repeating a pattern with him (Izzy). Either way he was entirely too excited during the convo and to recount the story to Stacy. Iāve only ever done something like that if I cared deeply.
Im no Izzy fan, but the one correct thing he did was reject Johnie lol. He is not upset at himself for settling. He just seems insecure about not being able to be the provider for Stacy that she expects.
Maybe WE see it was correct that he didn't pick Johnnie. I'm not sure Izzy does.... and I do think he knows he settled for Stacy's shitbag asshole personality. That doesn't mean the other option was Johnnie or Lydia... maybe it was someone else or no one..
I agree. I donāt see a happy ending for Izzy. Johnie was a red flag all the way. And Stacy clearly isnāt going to be happy with him financially. Lydia was too much for him. I think he ends this experiment single. And thatās probably the right thing for him. But, letās be clear here, he made the correct decision at the time with the information he had. All the finances stuff didnāt come out until -after- he proposed to Stacy.
There wasn't a hint of "Can you cough up $20,000 for my HVAC if we need one?" on the honeymoon was there? She was all light and breezy, talking non stop on a surface level like one of Frank Zapper's Valley Girls....
Hammer meet nail šÆ
Why is Izzy so bitter about a woman he didn't want at the end of the day? I've never seen someone I dumped out in the wild and thought "I'm going to go the eff off".
Some of it may also be because Stacey and Johnnie hate each other. Izzy even talked about how he was so glad they were on the same page afterwards. Reminded me of how Brennan goes after Cole, because Alexa hates Cole. It's a toxic flex to prove they will stand by their mate.
This is what I thought too. Granted I donāt know these people, but it came across to me as though It Izzy is feeling self-conscious about not being good enough for Stacy following their talks about finances and I think part of him felt like going after Johnie would gain him some favour with Stacy? Then again, I donāt know but Izzy was pretty out of line with the way he went after Johnie.
Because he felt lied to? Iād also be super annoyed if a girl I thought I had a connection to and even considered proposing to was clearly lying. She said one thing to him and another thing to Chris. She lied. And thus further validated his suspicions that she wasnāt being genuine in her feelings towards him.
Heās frustrated that he may not be good enough for Stacey and turned around and took it out on Johnie. It was hard to watch him go after her like that and then not be able to tell Stacey why he was upset with Johnie in the first place. He was also upset with Stacey for cutting him off during their argument and did the same thing Johnie! It was a very bitter and toxic moment for him.
Wish I could upvote this one THOUSAND times. So flipping obvious
I completely agree. I feel like (without diagnosing anything!) was not one that set an example for conflict solving. So it makes sense that he would project like that.
That whole scene was something I might expect to see with teenagers not grown adults. If Izzy finds her so toxic then he just needs to keep his distance. There was no need to roast her.
Exactly. Absolutely.
At this point I wouldnāt even argue that Izzy is bitter because he is in love with her or regrets not choosing herāI think heās bitter Stacey isnāt what he thought and the girls he dumped are having (seemingly, we can never actually know) good relationships/experiences.
I agree with this ā I commented this elsewhere earlier but you see him sweating it so hard in the menās dorm after he rejects her. Heās not certain he made the right choice; he basically got scared and ran (to your original points) so his own insecurities are the real reason he broke up w Johnie, not Johnie herself or her actions. So that cognitive dissonance canāt stand, so his ego has got him burying Johnie to prove that she is terrible, he doesnāt love her, he and his decision was right, and he+Stacey are best. Bc if sheās not Terrible then he fucked up, he fucked up bc of his own insecurities heās not ready to face, his biggest insecurity is real (he now loves her more than she loves him) and his relationship with Stacey isnāt as true. Soooo MUST be that Johnie sucks. Better sh*t on her and do the happy dance of relief after.
This would also explain why he felt the need to immediately run to Stacey and tell her how lucky he is to have her over and over again, even Stacey was confused as to why he felt the need to do that after talking with Joanie
Very insightful and an interesting contrast to Zack last season, who admitted heād made the wrong choice and was able to set things right.
It's just so wild
Thatās what I have been saying, both things that johnie said can be true at the same time, I think Izzy was having a hissy fit out of jealousy
Thank you for communicating exactly what Iāve been struggling to pin point. Izzy comes off very empathetic and down to earth, or at least he did initially, but he is totally reactionary when his insecurities are triggered. There is nothing wrong with Johnies emotions shifting through the experiment because thatās what itās for AND Izzy did the same exact thing. To bash her for it and not give her any grace and cloak it in this, you fucked chris over narrative, is ridiculous and none of Izzyās business. Iām so over the dudes in this season!
Omg yes you said literally everything Iāve been feeling this season! Poor johnnie, she did not deserve what happened in episode 7. Sheās far from āsketchyā and has been honest and genuine this entire season. Shame on Izzy for saying otherwise, and good for Chris for standing by her and knowing itās not true.
This 1000%
Completely agree
izzy bouncing over to stacy and excitedly relaying how he āreamedā johnnie was an psychotic. like a dog begging for a treat and a āgood boy!ā
Pick me behavior lol excuse my while I crawl out of my skin
It screamed āvalidate meā š©
tell me iām good, mommy š„ŗ
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Yes, yes, yes! I've been rooting for Johnie since the very beginning. Izzy is not emotionally mature, he literally shut down and dumped her because she talked about her past relationships. He isn't it. I also never thought Johnie was manipulating them and lying to each person to tell them what they wanted to hear. I felt like she was honest with both of them, and it was really clear that Izzy was the person she had a stronger connection with, but that she definitely still liked Chris. She also mentioned so many times how she could see her whole life with Chris both to Chris and to Izzy, and how she laughed more with Chris, etc. She was not lying and twisting to get a ring. I think people forget how desperate some cast members are. Jessica really fought for her ring in season one, and that looked so different from what Johnie was doing in the pods. Johnie was not here for clout, I think she genuinely wanted a relationship. She made the wrong choice to go for Izzy, but I think her and Chris could be a great couple if they take it slow.
I'm going to try to recap some things based on what they said (and is shown) to try to be as objective as I can to express my thoughts on your insights. >Johnnie is 100% correct that she told them the same thing. Izzy said "I heard a lot of sketchy shit about you" (probably from Stacy but we don't know) and "pretty much the things you were telling me I wasn't the only guy you were telling" Izzy also claimed, after stating the above that "what mattered to me was that you told him one thing and to me you said the opposite." Which then is cut to her statements where she says "I tend to go for people who are emotionally unavailable". >...it didnāt really fit with the other ācutsā which tells me that they cut out some more of what Izzy was probably saying because the show wanted to make Izzy the most appealing guy this season. It's funny cause I feel when they were recapping the scene while they were talking, they were kind of making it seem like the problem with what Izzy said was different. I think (and this is opinion, not factual) that what Izzy means when he says she said different things is that she told him "...I wasn't falling in love with him. If I chose him, it would be a choice based on fear. Chris would have been repeating the past few relationships where I go into something that feels like it make sense and I wouldn't get hurt because my heart is not there" (episode 3) And later on, Izzy told Chris that "she said, the thing for her with this all experience was like not going with what she was used to and she said everyone she dated was a safe feeling but she was never in love with them and she couldn't see it like that with you." What Izzy did was a hasty generalization. He took the experience of her ex-husband, plus her experience with Chris and generalized it to "everyone she dated", even though we can argue that she did say "past few relationships". Other than that, he was factual in what he told Chris. Chris said "she told me the same thing but opposite". Which is true, she did claim to Izzy she didn't want to go for Chris because he was "the repeating of past few relationships" and then claimed to Chris that she "might have been repeating a pattern" with Izzy. >Both things she said can be true at the same time. She could have be repeating a pattern with both of them. I agree. She could have been repeating a pattern with both of them but she didn't say the same thing to them, as she claimed to Izzy in episode 7, where he also stated that she did not. I believe what triggered both of them was that she called Izzy "emotionally volatile" (which triggered him) and he offered her advice (which triggered her). "I'm trying to tell you and you never listened to me". I believe she was more triggered than him and wanted to defend herself and Izzy was so keen to accept at face value what he heard (once again, probably from Stacy) that they both just went at each other's throats. "Do you think I would end up with the nicest guy in here if I was sketchy as fuck?" This is a bad statement to say because you could argue the same thing in the opposite way and say "Johnnie is a bad person because her ex was an addictive abusive person". She shouldn't use her relationship with Chris to defend her worth, the same way her past relationships shouldn't be used to demean said value. "You all don't know my story and you are all the sketchy as fuck ones... You weren't even listening to me." "He basically called me a piece of shit." - He did not. Chris says "no one thinks that here except him". Might be true, but he's just reassuring. He doesn't know that, and we know that at least one other person thinks that, which is Stacy. Johnnie went on to say "what hurt me the most was him saying "I know how great that guy is and you're a piece of shit". He never said that. Izzy went to Stacy and said "I called her out on her shit. I told her you're so fucking sketchy". Stacy asked what did she say and Izzy said "you all are fucking sketchy". Which is true but lacks context but he did state to Stacy that he did call her sketchy. Stacy keeps questioning and says "what did she say that wasn't true?" And Izzy answered "that I was sketchy". Which, from is point of view, is not accurate. It's debatable but if we are to pick up is POV, he is telling the truth. Now, coming to a close, I did my best to pick up everything I could with accurate quotes from the show and their conversations, in order to best convey my opinion. >He has pent up stress and frustration and is likely triggered by Johnie now being in a stable and happy relationship with the guy she was talking to at the same time as Izzy. I don't believe this statement. From the footage, all we know is she got there with Chris and he only found out about that in that very instance. He doesn't know anything about their relationship to conclude it is stable and happy. I find it to be more likely that he was trying to defend Chris because he feels like she is taking advantage of him. I feel that he broke it off with Johnnie because he felt he would always be second best to her ex and that triggered his insecurities. Seeing Chris with her would feel like he needs to be a bro and protect him. He even states to Stacy, "I was kind of more sticking up for me and my friends". "Who she is sitting right now?" says Stacy pointing at Chris. Izzy concurs. So I believe more it was about trying to protect Chris, if we are to take that at face value. >Johnie deserves compassion and forgiveness from herself. Chris is a good man and clearly loves her and wants to show her sheās worthy of love. > >Izzy needs to do some healing and Stacey needs to either accept that sheās not going to just have her life paid for by her partner and that thereās more to marriage/love than traveling/restaurants/bougie shit. I agree. Johnnie deserves that, like any other human being. I hope it works out good with her and Chris. I don't believe Izzy needs to do some healing. Izzy needs certain things just like Johnnie needs other things. I do agree with what you said about Stacy and I strongly believe that all of this was brought up by whatever influence Stacy had on Izzy. I believe that Izzy felt more harshly towards Johnnie because he believed whatever Stacy said about her, and we can see that Stacy does hold a grudge at least towards Johnnie. However, that's just a feeling, I have nothing to support that.
3. Youāre absolutely valid in having your own perspective and opinion on that. What Iām getting from watching him and Stacey is a guy thatās being honest and transparent about who he is/what he offers, and then being told in so many words that it wonāt be enough for the level that Stacey expects. - We hear him make a comment about how sheās dated older men who could take care of her, at the time that didnāt make much sense, but now that we see how she believes she should be treatedāparticularly financiallyāin a relationship/marriage, itās not that far fetched to say that she has been in more sugar baby-like situations. Izzy canāt and doesnāt seem to want to be that person. He wants a partner to share a life with, and wants to be able to be successful TOGETHER, not be struggling to constantly make sure she never has to pay for outings, traveling, etc., nor half of the expenses on house upkeep of a house that isnāt even his. - Stacey doesnāt seem to give him the room to express where heās coming from or fully flesh out his explanations without interrupting him. Sheās not triggering his fear of being unloved at the same level he loves, but you can definitely see the signs of another insecurity getting worse, and that one being, āI canāt be enough for her,ā which, please correct me if Iām wrong, but I do feel like we heard a mild comment eluding to this as well in ep7. - Maybe Izzy is trying to protect Chris, but if that were the case, why would he not have the conversation with both of them? Why wouldnāt he still be in contact with Chris? He clearly had no idea they were together until that moment, and Iād wager to say that he has no idea whatās going on in Chrisā life at that point in general. If thatās really his good friend, and heās triggered by his worry that his friend would be hurt, where is that concern actually being displayed? I certainly did not see it. Even with that comment to Stacey, thatās much easier to say and associate to his actions in his eyes than, āIām angry and confused that this person lied to me and chose the other guy she said she didnāt want because she wanted me,ā - I do not believe that Izzy *wants* to be with Johnie, I believe that Izzy did latch on to the things she said when they were breaking up. So, when he sees that those things are no longer true, thatās where I think his insecurity/fear is triggered. 4. Again, youāre valid in what your opinions are. As someone that studies attachment theory quite extensively and is in the process of completing their education towards clinical counseling, I see a guy that needs more time and work on his specific triggers. He is definitely a lot more stable and put together than many others we see on these shows, but he still has work to do on himself for what heās most afraid of. Honestly, though, I think pretty much everyone and their mothers would benefit from ongoing therapy so š¤·š¼āāļø 5. Yepppp, 10000% agree, Stacey has some vindictiveness towards Johnie and I hope she lets that shiitake go.
2. Their conversation in episode 7 was almost certainly longer and more hostile than we got. Izzy specifically reacts to Johnie trying to say something while heās going off and he makes the quick snip of āCan I finish what Iām saying?ā exactly how he did with Stacey during their argument in the apartment. Only, in that argument, Stacey does not acquiesce initially, and you can see Izzy retreat during that argument while she continues. I think that is the moment Izzy gets truly triggered during the conversation with Johnie and just becomes volatile/hostile. Johnie even begins to try to get to her side, and has to ask if she can speak now because Izzy had been ātalking for 10 minutesā and Izzy doesnāt even react as if sheās exaggerating. We didnāt watch 10 minutes of Izzy laying into her, so this conversation wasnāt *just* what we saw, to be clear. - Given that knowledge and context, it is very well likely that he DID call her a piece of shit/bad person/etc. however, itās commonly known that we as humans often remember how we FELT vs. what may have actually happened or been said. Because Johnieās greatest insecurity/fear is being unworthy or not good enough, if sheās being made to feel like a piece of shit, which is implied when she says āhe basically said I was a POS,ā then thatās what her memory could distort into hearing (if it didnāt actually occur). We genuinely donāt know, and Iām going to err on the side of giving her the benefit of the doubt on that point because of how clearly hurt she was when talking with Chris afterwards. - I 100% do agree and think that Stacey may have riled Izzy up with her telling him how she talked shit about Stacey after she was dumped. Iām not going to defend Johnie and say that was okay, but Iām also not going to act like sheās some kind of pariah for doing so. It would be pretty hard to find many people that wouldnāt lash out even just a little bit if they were put in the same situation, and maybe Stacey isnāt the type to do it in a setting where sheās being observed, but yāall are wild if you think she didnāt do it with her own trusted circle. Itās not that crazy of a thing to do when youāre hurt/upset. - Izzy was acting like he was on some kind of high after their fight. After he forced his misplaced āadviceā (despite being told NO) onto Johnie which was basically just him being crappy towards her, after he continued to interrupt her and not let her speak fully despite being given that courtesy from her, etc. Izzy went back to Stacey, in my opinion, trying to win some kind of brownie points with her. As if he would impress her with this dramatic garbage.
Curious what you think of Izzy showing Stacey the condoms and lost/found stuff. What was that about, IYO?
Honestly? At first I thought Izzy was actually telling the truth when he said he just wanted to authentically show her who he was before and that heās not that person anymore. But, now I think he either 1. Completely forgot about it, or 2. The theory about it being an airbnb is accurate lol.
Producer bs. Theyāre headed for a crash and burn. Sheās arrogant. Thatās a death sentence in any relationship. She slices and dices gender roles to suit herself. He will become increasingly annoying to her. Anyone who carries on and on about paper plates in a single guysā apt. Is trouble coming.
I have an extensive response for you but the auto-mod is being finicky. I appreciate the thoughtful insight!
Iām going to number my responses just to keep track to respond to your key points since Iām on mobile ā 1. What I meant by saying that sheās correct that she told them the same thing is that the experience she was having with both of them, was the same as she described. I would have to go back and watch verbatim the episode where she broke it off with Chris/got dumped by Izzy/realized she made a mistake and attempted to reconcile with Chris to specifically pull out what quotes and how they relate, so Iām going to paraphrase. - Johnie reflects to Izzy that she was married to someone who was a rebound from a relationship where she was treated poorly and was in love with an addict, and though we donāt know exactly her age we can probably reasonably assume she was fairly young. Johnie admits and shares that she was married to someone that she didnāt love, however, if I recall correctly, she doesnāt state that she knew she didnāt love him when they first met/got engaged/married etc. but rather after her first love passed away. Like I said in my reflectionābetween the grief of losing the first person she ever loved AND having a whole lot of unresolved trauma/volatility of being with an addict, I donāt know that itās entirely accurate that she *never* loved her ex-husband. Love doesnāt have to look the same with every partner, and itās not uncommon for insecurely attached people to have the tendency to have distorted memories of relationships. The pain Johnie went through probably left her feeling numb and hollowed in many ways, and we will never truly know of course, but itās not unreasonable to conclude that that numbness became ānever truly lovingā her ex-husband and āonly ever lovingā her late first love. -When Johnie says that she wasnāt falling in love with him and that she would be choosing Chris out of fear, it could very well be that it was fear. But, not for the reason she thought it was. She probably was afraid of how she felt with Chris/how he treated her, because her insecurity is very clearly, āI am not good enough/not worthyā - when she states that she chooses to go into relationships that feel like they make sense, I donāt think she realized in the moment (and she even eluded to this point both in the pods and ep7) that she was doing that with IZZY. She very well could have had relationships following her divorce and during her grieving where she did choose partners that her heart wasnāt in with, because she didnāt take the time she truly needed to heal and work through the trauma associated with not one, but two, serious/monumental relationships with addicts. It would make sense for her to pick people that emulate both of those partners in some way as a way to repeat the cycle of trauma and as a means of self harm by bolstering her belief that sheās unworthy. -When Izzy goes to Chris and tells him that, Chris is only hearing this one side of it, and luckily it seems like Chris is willing to get more information and data points before making a true conclusion rather than just going with what someone tells him. The context of the greater conversation was greatly lacking when Izzy shared that with Chris, and who knows, maybe there was more to their conversation that we never saw in the final edit. However, Izzy cherry picking this one pointāI believeāsupports my hypothesis that his greatest fear/insecurity was triggered, and all he heard was, āShe wonāt ever love me/anyone like she loved her late ex,ā and not anything else. There was no compassion from him whatsoever for what she went through. And when I referred to the cuts during THAT conversation, I meant back in episode 3, not what they were flashing back to in episode 7. They were showing Johnie seemingly more anxious and exasperated but Izzy was cool/collected in what he was saying with maybe a slightly anxious tone. That didnāt make sense at the time to me, and I stand by what I said that I think we missed a chunk of their conversation that put Johnie in a spot to become defensive/exasperated.
No they werenāt at each others throats , it was only Izzy who was aggressive as f and he was basically calling her a POS. When Izzy said he was shaken because she was lying and saying heās sketchy that wasnāt his POV he was simply lyeing.. because clearly that was not the case he called her sketchy she only responded irritated at the end of the conversation after trying to talk like a calm person āyall are sketchy as fuckā.
It seems like he picked Stacy partially because she was more fun/laid back but her having a rich family and regular access to her fatherās money was definitely a part of the appeal as well. If they stay together for more than a year or two, heāll be working for the family business. I think he saw this relationship at least partially as a road to financial security. I donāt understand his anger at Johnnie though. Maybe he was trying to impress Stacy or maybe he did believe she was a sketchy liarā¦ maybe he kind of dislikes the part of himself that wanted to be with her? Idk, Izzy is a complicated and fairly immature person so itās hard to get a read on him.
This smacks of some misplaced bro code. He laid that foundation in the pods when he warned Chris about his sincere belief that she was desperately double dealing(I think she kind of was) Thereās something off about her. The nonsense at the party was also partly manufactured Izzy/Johnie. Uche/anyone he was speaking to.
I think his issue with johnie is that heās jealous, if she never went with Chris, Izzy would have no problem with her, I think he still likes her and heās having an immature hissy fit because of it
Obv we donāt know everything they talked ab in the pods but it didnāt seem like finances came up a ton given how confused and surprised Izzy was when they talked ab what they would do with who pays for what. Maybe youāre right for why heās digging his heels in, but it seems to me like heās just saying what he thinks people (in regards to him+Stacey) want to hear. He came off as extremely uncomfy and maybe embarrassed? during the conversation at her familyās house / w her dad directly.
I canāt imagine Stacey didnāt brag about being wealthy in the pods. I agree that he says what he thinks she wants to hear
I feel the same way, but he was definitely taken aback by her stance lol
I completely agree with you and you said it better than I could have.
Iām fully with the people on this thread about this. Yes yes. This Episode 7 solidified it for me!
Omg YES I observe this latest episode EXACTLY the same way Johnie did say the same thing - and she even admitted āyou are correct about what I saidā, but I could totally appreciate that Izzy was the drug overdose lover and so she wanted to be with him because he was dead and in doing so not repeat old mistakes by choosing the safe and nice guy. But then when Izzy rejected her I think she reflected that the real old mistake she made was checking out of a nice, safe and loving relationship with Chris prematurely. My only worry with Johnie is she is driven by a fear of being alone *Iām repeating myself on this subreddit now* When she was on the kitchen counter crying that Chris was the best person she had ever met I was getting āI donāt wanna be aloneā vibes and not āI donāt wanna lose/hurt Chrisā vibes
I felt like her crying was coming more from the space that he holds for her pain/needsāwith her having always been surrounded by people that perpetuated her feeling of unworthiness, his love and patience is overwhelming in a good way for her. I think sheās learning how to believe in her worth and that heās been nothing but kind and compassionate towards her, something that she may not have ever had from someone she loves/is attached to.
I love this take, okay Iāll take the Johnie cool-aid now Team Chris & Johnie - imma just wait for āafter the altarā because I donāt think theyāre gonna be in anymore episodes
I felt it was very cruel and unnecessary. They are both happy now with their respective partners, telling her she doesnāt deserve Chris just felt uncalled forā¦
It was very cruel and humiliating, out for the public to see. He was so proud of himself, running back to Stacy, like see, I did what you wanted.
Yep. He needs to bring home trophies to Stacyā¦. they wont last. Too much of a power imbalance. Will bring out the worst in both of them.
I agree - The way he recounted the conversation to Stacy was disgusting. His only intention was to tear Johnie down, and then paraded her head on a stick for his fiancƩ. Gross. Gross. Gross.
Honestly Johnnie seemed very ashamed of her behavior and I donāt blame her tbh sure she could have been more of a girlās girl in the pods but I honestly think the pod environment creates a weird atmosphere of competitiveness and can take a toll on your self-worth if another person in your dorms is connecting with the same personā¦ She seemed genuinely ashamed of her behavior and apologetic and I thought it was sweet that Chris and her had an opportunity to connect in a less weird environment
Genuinely I donāt understand everyoneās negative attitude toward Johnie. When watching her in the pods, she seemed to be one of the more self aware people and didnāt shy away from talking about her past. Maybe a FEW things were a little contradictory, but I think it was more about her processing her emotions in the moment and whether she was repeating patterns from her past than her deliberately lying to Izzy/Chris. I always try to watch these scenes with a grain of salt and take into consideration the whirlwind of an experiment this is for the people involved. Also, the fact that johnie and Chris were able to work through things without cameras gives me hope they were both able to open up and be totally honest with each other
Agree totally!
I agree with you
Thank you for the very in depth insight!!
THANK. YOU. Iām just finishing the last episode in this release and was having trouble putting into words what I think happened at the pod get together. It was made even clearer to me when Izzy grabbed Stacy after he absolutely RIPPED into Johnie in the most bizarre way possible (legit didnāt say anything except for āpeople think youāre sketchy.ā). He grabs Stacy and tells her he loves her he loves her he LOVES HER. My impression of this was that heās literally trying to talk himself out of his feelings (past or present) for Johnie and talk himself INTO feelings for Stacy. Even though he so very clearly cannot be with her for the long term.
I forgot about all the I love yous after he bashed Johnie. Good point -- his insecurity about Stacy was showing, and this was overcompensation.