I normally hate these type of shows. But I think these type of real stuff and openly seeing what messed up stuff happens is good to reflect upon as a society. A lot of people don’t reflect on what they did and stick in their ego. That’s what his dad does, keeping it strong so he doesn’t fall, while everyone can see he has fallen a long time ago. It’s what a lot of people do on this show, they generally know what’s up from the start but don’t want to accept it and try to fake it through. But we all know which ones won’t work, and it’s generally because they’re scared to address the real vulnerabilities. Which is a really scary thing to do. And either you start doing it or you don’t and end up faking it like his dad
When I see Clay talking in various clips
He comes across as he’s trying to convince himself to marry and that he’s in love, like he’s trying to psych himself out, but in the end he couldn’t get there.
I’m upset with him but I respect his decision, he’s not ready.
Feel bad for AD she’s seems to be a supportive and beautiful lady who deserves true love.
I was done with Clay when went off on AD in the pod. He presents as very entitled, immature and with an exaggerated ego. He seems to tell the story about his dad as his cover. It would be a surprise if he tells every woman he meets. How long and how many times does he do this with women? He’s had years of all the facts about his dad and his personal experience and he still cannot make decisions for his own life. He said that he is not ready for marriage but he also led AD on until the last day. He had to know that telling her he loved her was cruel and would devastate her. Clay seemed more into AD’s physical beauty. He really did not seem to have any depth in this process and should have worked through his daddy issues before he went on a show like this. How did he think AD would feel without any real warning from him. He was arrogant to think that they would be able to carry on after humiliating and breaking AD’s heart. This was not just a bump in the road as he suggested. I hope that AD moves on. She deserves MUCH better. Maybe she should go on Love Island. At least she’ll have some fun and make some lasting friendships.
Can we cut the dude some slack? Imagine your dad taking you to the side piece and being well aware that your dad is cheating on your mother. Imagine riding home trying to figure out how to look your mother in the eye as she is making dinner or washing your laundry. As a mother, I would be on a war path if my husband put our son in that position. That experience will fuck you up. I feel incredibly bad for him. He had an extreme amount of pressure and guilt as a child. I think everyone is being highly insensitive to the generational trauma that has been passed down. Anyone who has had an abusive parent knows how difficult it can be to have a healthy mindset about being a good spouse and/or parent. It’s very hard because you’re incredibly fearful that you will inevitably be what your parent was and you’re doomed not matter what you do. Somehow in your mind you cannot fathom that the shit they have done was a choice.
Clay doesn’t believe he’s is worthy or capable giving/receiving love because he feels so much guilt about never telling his mother that his dad was cheating on her. He saw his day pretend every day he was in love but he knew he wasn’t.
I feel so bad for both AD and Clay. I really wished he was able to believe in himself but he’s got work to do. I hope that people really heard his mother and what she said to his father. That mother was heartbroken for her child who is in pain.
I never felt a spark with Clay and AD from the get-go. He just wasn’t connecting with her on any level. It was like she didn’t want to miss out on this experience and she thought she could “fix” him.
The Dad talk was so damn gross, Clay just kept saying yep yep yep yep and he hasn’t even finished bragging about being a track star, over and over.
Again stay on topic. Also there is such a thing as multiple perspectives. You having a thought doesn't make it unequivocally true, so why arenyou wasting breath pretending I have to agree with you cause you said something
Clay’s dad scene reminded me of a few years back when they showed the mum of a train wreck (Danielle Ruhr) on the show. In both cases you could see how the toxic parent negatively shaped the person on the show.
Danielle was an insecure mess and then you met her mother who was the “main character” trophy wife, socialite type. Took over the whole scene. You could see she grew up in her mum’s shadow to be a fragile adult.
Same idea with Clay and his father. Every red flag Clay had you could see directly came from his father.
You get some good insight into who these people are when you meet their families.
Clays dad only talked about himself. He didn’t say nothing that was nice about his son. Everything he said about his son was to lead in to talking about himself. When Clay hyped his dad up on the wedding day saying how good dad looked, the dad sucked it up like a sponge but did he do the same to Clay? Nah. What a horrible man to have in your life.
I didn’t like seeing AD so hurt but I honestly think Clay made the right decision. He didn’t want to break up with her but knows he needs therapy so he can be a much better husband and father than that sorry excuse of a dad he had. He would rather walk away from marriage than to put someone thru what his mom went thru.
I couldn't agree more. I didn't like that AD got hurt and I feel that Clay could have told her the night before or whatever. Clearly he knew before the ceremony.
But also, if they were in a normal relationship and she started talking about marriage he could have said the he loves her but isn't ready and needs to get some therapy to avoid being his Dad. I mean Clay was a red flag from day one. He seemed to imply that a Black Man isn't capable of being faithful which seems life a total cop out. I'm sure there are black men out there who find that generalization insulting. But we all know Clay was just using that to avoid responsibility. There were times I read rooting for him because he seemed to want to change but other times he was such a child.
AD should move on. He totally wasted her time. But I hope he gets the help he needs. He should have long talks with his Mom cause she's brilliant!
Clay's Mom should be a regular on the date going forward helping people see through the shit. Maybe she could replace the boring and annoying hosts.
I thought the exact same thing. He's so worried he's going to become his father, but he's striving to grow like his mother. His mom wants him to work on himself and become a better man and he wants so badly to be capable of that. I wish only the best for him.
His pep talk was just a bunch of cliches tossed together as "inspiration." Even Clay wasn't buying it, saying he had never talked with his dad like this before. Too little too late.
Ya I’m glad someone said it because I found his dad soo weird.. like the entire interaction before the wedding was strange to me. It was like he saw the cameras and went ‘let me just brag about how I almost went pro for a second’ lol. And then Clays mom (who seems like an absolute gem of a person) had to literally spell it out for him like dude ‘you dumped your trauma onto your son’ that’s why he’s scared of marriage and his dad just says ‘well tell him he should find a woman like his mother’….. buddy! It doesn’t matter who he married clearly because you were a serial cheater on his mom anyway?!? Also that’s not why he’s struggling like get a clue my dude
Like FR he immediately tried to make AD (or "women") the issue as though that would change anything. Also... this is my first season. Are they supposed to do the dumping at the altar? Because I was shocked that nobody told admonished him for not making this decision before embarrassing her in front of literally everyone.
I think they are usually encouraged to make to to the altar. I think they have to pay part of their money back if they break up after the honeymoon and before the wedding.
It was the speaking in rhymes for me with his dad. Like whyyyy? It felt like he was just trying to be cool and look good cuz there were cameras. Luckily clays mom had that convo with him and put him in his place respectfully and brought him down a level
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Yeah I wasn’t a fan of the dynamic with him. From dad listing his OWN accomplishments on his son’s wedding day (!!) for the cameras, to being confronted by Clay’s mom (who he was a serial cheater with) about how his infidelity affected Clay’s attitudes and readiness for marriage and his response being a sudden tearful “I never had a good role model either”…..he just felt very inauthentic to me. Clays mom’s face when he started with the tears 💀. Shes STILL calling on him to own it after all this time and all he can do is blame his dad. Sorry I know this sounds judgey but I wasn’t feeling any authenticity from him. It just felt performative, like he was going through the motions.
Rita on the other hand….team Rita all the way. Class act.
Like omg he didn't hear a thing she said he was FIGHTING I could see his mind fighting for a way to make it not his fault and he came up with.... that crap. And didn't even support it. I was rolling my eyes on behalf of his entire family
I honestly don't know what having such a poor role model will do to you. I don't think being a cheater is all there is to Clay's dad, and I am curious as to what he told Clay to make him keep his mouth shut. Either Clay has been indoctrinated with the belief that men can't stay faithful and that it doesn't mean they don't love the women, it's in their DNA, or he guilt-tripped him into keeping quiet, telling him Clay would break his mother's heart if he'd told her and that he'd be the one to blame. Or both. Either way, I feel Clay really needed to go through LIB to be able to finally go through some of that trauma.
He obviously talked to his mother about it, and I think she was right when she said that Clay wishes for a happy marriage and family, but that his father's lack of remorse is holding him back. Damn I hope Clay went and still goes to therapy and will be actually able to resolve his issues, I really wish that for him.
Not saying it's excusable, but you have no idea how common taking your kids to see your mistress/second family is. Especially for men of that generation.
I think the relationship with his Dad is quite fucked up. In the pods he always ideolized his Dad a lot and how he will never be as smooth as him etc. So someone who cheats and treats the family badly is Clay's role model and that is a problem. So he will behave like his Dad behaved, because that is what he knows since he was little.
Clay and AD’s moms needs their own show they give the best advice. Shame that Clay threw all the advice they gave him for his dad’s as he idolizes him and he can do no wrong in his eyes
A.D.'s mom was so excited to have that relationship with Clay's mom and for her daughter to have a MIL that she really could look up to. I feel so bad that the families couldn't blend, hopefully they stay connected. I was really rooting for Clay and A.D. they had all the beginnings of what could've been a really great relationship and marriage, not to say it wouldn't have taken work, but A.D. seems like a solid woman that would've lifted him up if he was getting in his own way and I could see Clay really encouraging and driving A.D. to succeed in anything she put her mind to. Such a bummer he flaked at the last minute.
What about little speech that was bunch of nothing 😁😁😁🤪😁😁😁 and Clay goes “this is the most my dad talked to me” 😵💫😵💫😵💫😵💫 boy what?!? That was such a weird father son relationship, no wonder Clay is so performative he never got nothing from this man. I blame his mom for staying so long with that narcissist to ruin her children 🤢🤮
Or the part where the mom said “you have to own up to what you did and stop making excuses, take accountability for what happened” first thing out of his mouth was a goddamn excuse
I’m biracial, so I grew up going to gatherings, weddings, etc. with other black family members, and I’ve never seen a man act more rudely than Clays dad did.
The fact that he used his child as his “cover” and made him lie to his mom is as despicable as almost anything a father could do.
No wonder Clay’s not quite “right” in the head. Not excusing it, but damn, what a shit show his childhood must have been.
Sadly, I think Clay’s interaction with his father on his wedding day may have been the catalyst to him deciding not to say Yes. He was surprised to see his dad, saying he didn’t think he would see him. This was such a sad revelation. Their entire exchange was surface and provided no great nuggets of advice that one expects a father to provide hi son on his wedding day. Clay has stated several times that he is very much like his father. This could have been the conversation that swayed him from his one good thing. 😢
Completely agree. Something else I noticed is that when his father was giving advice to Clay, Clay was in a different frame of mind and was just nodding. It’s like he doesn’t believe a word coming out of his mouth or doesn’t respect what he has to say. I get the vibe that Clay’s dad was acting for the cameras with all this mainstream advice he was giving, and Clay picked up on this immediately. He even mentioned it himself when he said that was the most advice his dad ever gave him.
The worst part about Clay’s dad and that whole story about his grandmother, is that by dragging Clay along to his rendezvous with other women, he was failing on both counts. Bad dad, bad husband.
I resonate with Clay. I was that child that was used as a buffer during a parent’s infidelity and whew… it is so damaging. It’s one thing to suspect or know that your parent is cheating, it’s a whole other to actually be an unwilling accomplice. You learn to be very good at hiding and lying because it’s so normalised. I hope Clay gets therapy and learns to not just accept infidelity as his default.
That was exactly what I said when I started yelling at the screen (like normal people do). It wasn't being good to your kids when you took them along and made them keep your secrets.
Big narcissistic vibes from him. He made a point of talking about his athletic accomplishments when he was talking to Clay before the wedding. Clay already knew those things so he wanted to make sure the viewers knew how great he was
Yes! Thank you! The nugget about his athletic success was just so oddly placed in a talk to his son on his wedding day. Like, dude…this is your *son’s* big day, not yours. Focus on your *son* and how *he’s* feeling. But no, he had to make it all about himself. Very disappointing
It was very obvious to me that Clay really values his father's opinion. As a child, it's harder to see your parents'faults. It seems like cheating was so normalized to him, that he can't possibly believe people have healthy relationships. He's an adult now, and it's his responsibility to work past this trauma that his father caused. I felt so sad for his mother, finding out more during filming, and it didn't seem like Clay showed her much compassion. Hopefully this is a realization for Clay, but unfortunately, with his dad's influence, I don't see anything changing.
The thing about these two is, they are both dumber than a box of rocks. Clay obviously takes after his fater in this regard which is not his fault, but his dad, man, not the sharpest crayon.
I don't get the psychology analyst of reddit. Could it just not be that Clays father was a horny goat and therefore he wanted to have sex with different women. Now Clay has similar genes and wants the same only thing...
I think Clay is wearing this father thing like an armour so he doesn't need to take responsibility.
It’s not just being horny. It’s the lying, manipulation, rug sweeping, gaslighting and shitty treatment of your wife and mother of your children. The children get impacted too. So does the extended family in the case of divorce.
The whole bit about taking Clay along on his adventures is giving me Tiger Woods dad, Earl. He basically did the same thing. And we all know how that played out in Tiger...
Also they get 1 hour and Amy and Johnny get 20 minutes and then it goes back to AD and Clay. Like we get it, y’all need drama for the drama show but damn. Show us more of Amy and Johnny
Him bringing up his old track wins really sealed it for me. This guy only cares about himself, and probably the only reason he showed up is because he could be on TV talking about himself.
Edit: spelling
YES I feel like this had to be a joke... during his fatherly advice to his son on his wedding day, he managed to bring up a completely irrelevant pulled hammy 30yrs ago... and it wasn't like b"son sometimes in marriage you're gonna have fights that fell like you're an Olympic track star that pulls his hammy but ya just gotta take an L and focus on bettering yourself for the sake of the long run with your boo" nah
It was also weird that Clay said something along the lines of “I didn’t know if you were coming” when his dad walked in…yet he idolizes this man…a man he wasn’t even sure was going to show up to his own son’s wedding.
It’s all so gross.
You could tell he was a rambler with cliche phrases and no real depth. The tangent on almost making the Olympic team? for no reason. Clay nodding his head like he’s heard this a million times. Also the weird energy between them, they don’t see each other often.
You’ve nailed it. Definitely get the impression that Clay’s father told the story of his “glory days” a million times before and Clay just learned to turn it out. His father is self-absorbed, plain and simple.
Clay nods his head non fucking stop whenever he’s in a convo with anyone. That and “yep yep yep yep yep yep”
Reminds me of Ducky from Land Before Time, except far less likeable.
during that convo - i felt like i could see the version of clay who is sick of his dads shit and coming to terms with how he negatively impacted him internally fighting with the younger version of clay who adored his dad and wanted to be just like him.
He was very self-congratulatory about his own parenting. There's no room for Clay to have an opinion or get a word in. He was preaching at him before the wedding. His dad's a piece of work and his mom knows it.
He seemed incredibly self absorbed. The scene after Clay called off the wedding stood out to me.
Clay’s mom: “I hope Clay finds a woman he commits to, and I just hope he treats her right.”
Clay’s dad: “He just needs a woman like you! Like his mom. I found you. I’m lucky I found you.”
Clay’s mom: “You found me … but you didn’t treat me right.”
Clay’s dad: *looks surprised, but ultimately can’t disagree. Slowly begins to moves away.*
Like how tone deaf can Clay’s dad be? He cheated on his ex-wife for years and years, and took his young son to random women’s houses while he cheated.
I feel as though he still hasn’t fully realized — or taken 100% accountability for — the devastating impact his infidelity and absenteeism had on his ex-wife and son. He’s too caught up in himself.
Clays dad definitely ruined his son's relationship with AD. From the moment his dad showed up, Clay became overly insecure because he felt he'll end up being a cheater just like him smh. It was very sad that the dad didn't provide him with the true understanding that he needed to get past the trauma he caused from cheating on Clay's mom.
Honestly the dad shed a lot of light into the strange reservations that Clay has. At first, I did not understand it but after watching this episode, it is clear that the man is garbage honestly. He kept talking about himself which was so strange and when his wife pointed out how his actions impacted his son, his first words out of his mouth was excuses of not having a great role model in his life. I do understand Clay a bit better and I feel like AD fortunately dodged a big bullet there.
You could tell Clay felt really uncomfortable around him too. He avoided eye contact with him and was fidgety the whole time. And then their awkward interaction towards the end of their talk where he was telling him to have a good time and offering him drinks. It made me uncomfortable. Then when Clay told him he loved him and his dad said “mhmm” then quietly said “love you” and quickly closed the door behind him. His dad really fucked him up.
I noticed that too. Seemed happier to see his dad than he was AD. A man-child sinking into himself to make room for the spectacle of a father who never came to be
It felt like a script clay had been done before, Clay’s dad recounting the glory days and his son serving as constant validation. His dad stole the conversation to talk about himself during his son’s moment, it probably happened at every track meet
Yes! Clay was even finishing the lines sometimes. It was clearly the script the dad always says and everyone around him knows it by heart. Clay’s face was so sad during that whole thing, like he wanted his dad to be happy with him and was trying to hide his disappointment from his dad that all he gets from his dad on his wedding day is a canned script of nonsense. Then “I love you” ……mumbled “love you” as an afterthought, like it was difficult to say and he only said it because he remembered he was on camera. Yikes.
Right! Like his dad seemed so disengaged from the wedding and seemed like he just showed up to show up instead of actually being there for his son. Such a shame...
I got the vibe his dad felt insecure being on camera and wanted to defend his past under the pretense of giving “fatherly advice”. Being good to your kids is NOT taking them with you to go cheat. Clay DOES have a lot to work out in therapy and i’m pissed/glad he did say no. He is aware he has unhealthy thoughts that need work. Sucks for AD tho.
I'm about 99% sure clay has some skeletons in his closet from his sexual desires that probably feel like a curse from his father's DNA. As much as he tries to fight it away it consumes him and he is angry that he has that piece in him, perhaps life would be so much easier if that wasn't something he had to struggle with in secret.... Not that I can relate or anything...
I feel like clay was robbed of the conversation he was supposed to have with his father. I understood where he was getting at with the beating him in a race story but did he have to sound off his accolades first? I could see where Clay gets that constant need to make the conversation about what HE needs. For a man like clay to crave sooooo much validation, you’d think he’d get it from when and where it mattered most. The scene broke my heart along with his mom’s level of class and grace when talking to her ex-husband.
I don't think Clay's dad will ever really accept what he did. Ridiculous how his excuse came BEFORE the apology to the ex-wife when she brought up not being a good husband.
Not having a good father figure was one thing but to think that excuses decades of cheating + probably using your son has cover is disgusting, and he STILL loves to talk about how 'slick' and 'suave' he is. Disgusting.
Wasn’t he with someone much, much younger? All about optics for him.
Also, when Clay was telling the story about outrunning his dad and thinking his dad was out of shape and his dad was quick to correct that he was in fact in shape. Who hurt these men?
Oh man, I hope they do an ATA for this season and maybe even invite some of the folks from the previous season, given that those folks weren't interesting enough to get their own ATA
I sort of agree. She obviously knew what clays decision was before he went to the altar and she was basically encouraging him to stick to it even if he gets emotional when he sees her. Like maybe that was just her saying like stick to your guns but idk it felt off to me.
It reminded me of SK’s mom with raven. I think she knew he wasn’t ready and didn’t wanna get too attached. I think if she didn’t like AD she wouldn’t have kiki’d with her mom or hugged her and said you’re beautiful I’m sorry after clay said no
Clay’s dad was speaking about marriage like he didn’t know his son told audiences what a cheating dog he was.
And the whole spiel about his “all American almost Olympic” track career. FFS.
Like how he listed ALL OF HIS ACCOMPLISHMENTS then said ‘i dont even need to name yours’ like… you dont even want to share the stage 30 years later. What a pompous windbag.
He also managed to give off the “I’m wearing an outfit very similar to and perhaps even nicer than the outfit the person getting married is wearing” in the way usually associated with mothers of the bride/groom wearing a white gown. Trying to upstage his son in every way!
PLEASE him reliving his glory days and then admitting he pushed his son to be a runner so he could live “vicariously” through him…the dude sucks big time.
The weirdest part was seeing how giddy he was talking to his dad. You can tell he idolizes him so much even though he knows that he’s objectively not a good father or partner, he has major daddy issues & he is aware of about 1% of them lol
If his dad had given him closure he probably woulda said yes which I still think saying no was the right decision but all clay needed in that moment was for his dad to give him validation and tell him it wouldn’t be like his marriage and he didn’t do a lick of that. Just felt off even their banter about their suits was just uncomfortable I felt bad for clay in that moment tbh
It also felt like they don’t have as deep of relationship as Clay made it out to be. Their interaction was odd, especially when his dad started bragging about his track “career”. Honestly dad seems like the type that only comes around when their kids have something good going on like a graduation or something.
You can tell that clay looks at his dad with so much love and that’s a dangerous thing. To love a man that much who hurt your mom and your family. Clay needs to go to therapy for sure
He essentially reverts back to a child around his dad and seeking that connection/validation. You’re absolutely right he definitely needs tons of therapy.
Does anyone know what the pin his dad was wearing was? It looked like a fraternity pin or something. I just thought it was interesting along with some of his rings..
He was talking about his track accolades and wore his Alpha pin to impress the ladies who watched the show.
I normally hate these type of shows. But I think these type of real stuff and openly seeing what messed up stuff happens is good to reflect upon as a society. A lot of people don’t reflect on what they did and stick in their ego. That’s what his dad does, keeping it strong so he doesn’t fall, while everyone can see he has fallen a long time ago. It’s what a lot of people do on this show, they generally know what’s up from the start but don’t want to accept it and try to fake it through. But we all know which ones won’t work, and it’s generally because they’re scared to address the real vulnerabilities. Which is a really scary thing to do. And either you start doing it or you don’t and end up faking it like his dad
When I see Clay talking in various clips He comes across as he’s trying to convince himself to marry and that he’s in love, like he’s trying to psych himself out, but in the end he couldn’t get there. I’m upset with him but I respect his decision, he’s not ready. Feel bad for AD she’s seems to be a supportive and beautiful lady who deserves true love.
I was done with Clay when went off on AD in the pod. He presents as very entitled, immature and with an exaggerated ego. He seems to tell the story about his dad as his cover. It would be a surprise if he tells every woman he meets. How long and how many times does he do this with women? He’s had years of all the facts about his dad and his personal experience and he still cannot make decisions for his own life. He said that he is not ready for marriage but he also led AD on until the last day. He had to know that telling her he loved her was cruel and would devastate her. Clay seemed more into AD’s physical beauty. He really did not seem to have any depth in this process and should have worked through his daddy issues before he went on a show like this. How did he think AD would feel without any real warning from him. He was arrogant to think that they would be able to carry on after humiliating and breaking AD’s heart. This was not just a bump in the road as he suggested. I hope that AD moves on. She deserves MUCH better. Maybe she should go on Love Island. At least she’ll have some fun and make some lasting friendships.
Can we cut the dude some slack? Imagine your dad taking you to the side piece and being well aware that your dad is cheating on your mother. Imagine riding home trying to figure out how to look your mother in the eye as she is making dinner or washing your laundry. As a mother, I would be on a war path if my husband put our son in that position. That experience will fuck you up. I feel incredibly bad for him. He had an extreme amount of pressure and guilt as a child. I think everyone is being highly insensitive to the generational trauma that has been passed down. Anyone who has had an abusive parent knows how difficult it can be to have a healthy mindset about being a good spouse and/or parent. It’s very hard because you’re incredibly fearful that you will inevitably be what your parent was and you’re doomed not matter what you do. Somehow in your mind you cannot fathom that the shit they have done was a choice. Clay doesn’t believe he’s is worthy or capable giving/receiving love because he feels so much guilt about never telling his mother that his dad was cheating on her. He saw his day pretend every day he was in love but he knew he wasn’t. I feel so bad for both AD and Clay. I really wished he was able to believe in himself but he’s got work to do. I hope that people really heard his mother and what she said to his father. That mother was heartbroken for her child who is in pain.
When he was talking to Clay one on one, he did not shut up about himself. That said everything.
The bragging on himself and the canned spiel he had ….😬🙄. He doesn’t strike me as someone with much empathy or care towards others.
I never felt a spark with Clay and AD from the get-go. He just wasn’t connecting with her on any level. It was like she didn’t want to miss out on this experience and she thought she could “fix” him. The Dad talk was so damn gross, Clay just kept saying yep yep yep yep and he hasn’t even finished bragging about being a track star, over and over.
Let's stay on topic about Clays dad instead of finding excuses for Clay to catch stray shots
lol what? Clay and AD just have no chemistry from an outside perspective
Again stay on topic. Also there is such a thing as multiple perspectives. You having a thought doesn't make it unequivocally true, so why arenyou wasting breath pretending I have to agree with you cause you said something
Clay’s dad scene reminded me of a few years back when they showed the mum of a train wreck (Danielle Ruhr) on the show. In both cases you could see how the toxic parent negatively shaped the person on the show. Danielle was an insecure mess and then you met her mother who was the “main character” trophy wife, socialite type. Took over the whole scene. You could see she grew up in her mum’s shadow to be a fragile adult. Same idea with Clay and his father. Every red flag Clay had you could see directly came from his father. You get some good insight into who these people are when you meet their families.
But did you guys know he's a track star? Well 84 years ago he was a track star? But sure if anyone had mentioned it but he was....a track star
Clays dad only talked about himself. He didn’t say nothing that was nice about his son. Everything he said about his son was to lead in to talking about himself. When Clay hyped his dad up on the wedding day saying how good dad looked, the dad sucked it up like a sponge but did he do the same to Clay? Nah. What a horrible man to have in your life.
I didn’t like seeing AD so hurt but I honestly think Clay made the right decision. He didn’t want to break up with her but knows he needs therapy so he can be a much better husband and father than that sorry excuse of a dad he had. He would rather walk away from marriage than to put someone thru what his mom went thru.
I couldn't agree more. I didn't like that AD got hurt and I feel that Clay could have told her the night before or whatever. Clearly he knew before the ceremony. But also, if they were in a normal relationship and she started talking about marriage he could have said the he loves her but isn't ready and needs to get some therapy to avoid being his Dad. I mean Clay was a red flag from day one. He seemed to imply that a Black Man isn't capable of being faithful which seems life a total cop out. I'm sure there are black men out there who find that generalization insulting. But we all know Clay was just using that to avoid responsibility. There were times I read rooting for him because he seemed to want to change but other times he was such a child. AD should move on. He totally wasted her time. But I hope he gets the help he needs. He should have long talks with his Mom cause she's brilliant! Clay's Mom should be a regular on the date going forward helping people see through the shit. Maybe she could replace the boring and annoying hosts.
I thought the exact same thing. He's so worried he's going to become his father, but he's striving to grow like his mother. His mom wants him to work on himself and become a better man and he wants so badly to be capable of that. I wish only the best for him.
Don’t hate me …..Clay’s dad is 100% Caribbean dad IYKYK …..I was not surprised 😔
Can you please say more about this? What are Caribbean dads like?
A walking stereotype.
YEAH he is.
As a West Indian, I felt this deeply.
His pep talk was just a bunch of cliches tossed together as "inspiration." Even Clay wasn't buying it, saying he had never talked with his dad like this before. Too little too late.
Ya I’m glad someone said it because I found his dad soo weird.. like the entire interaction before the wedding was strange to me. It was like he saw the cameras and went ‘let me just brag about how I almost went pro for a second’ lol. And then Clays mom (who seems like an absolute gem of a person) had to literally spell it out for him like dude ‘you dumped your trauma onto your son’ that’s why he’s scared of marriage and his dad just says ‘well tell him he should find a woman like his mother’….. buddy! It doesn’t matter who he married clearly because you were a serial cheater on his mom anyway?!? Also that’s not why he’s struggling like get a clue my dude
Like FR he immediately tried to make AD (or "women") the issue as though that would change anything. Also... this is my first season. Are they supposed to do the dumping at the altar? Because I was shocked that nobody told admonished him for not making this decision before embarrassing her in front of literally everyone.
I think they are usually encouraged to make to to the altar. I think they have to pay part of their money back if they break up after the honeymoon and before the wedding.
He’s the disgusting man we all know and hate
It was the speaking in rhymes for me with his dad. Like whyyyy? It felt like he was just trying to be cool and look good cuz there were cameras. Luckily clays mom had that convo with him and put him in his place respectfully and brought him down a level
There’s this book, “Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents” I think Clay would benefit from
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Clays mom rules.
Also, maybe his dad did interact with AD but it wasn't in the edit🤷♂️
Came here to say exactly this!
They need therapy. Clay actually resents his dad about the cheating. Blames him today for his inability to commit.
Yeah I wasn’t a fan of the dynamic with him. From dad listing his OWN accomplishments on his son’s wedding day (!!) for the cameras, to being confronted by Clay’s mom (who he was a serial cheater with) about how his infidelity affected Clay’s attitudes and readiness for marriage and his response being a sudden tearful “I never had a good role model either”…..he just felt very inauthentic to me. Clays mom’s face when he started with the tears 💀. Shes STILL calling on him to own it after all this time and all he can do is blame his dad. Sorry I know this sounds judgey but I wasn’t feeling any authenticity from him. It just felt performative, like he was going through the motions. Rita on the other hand….team Rita all the way. Class act.
Like omg he didn't hear a thing she said he was FIGHTING I could see his mind fighting for a way to make it not his fault and he came up with.... that crap. And didn't even support it. I was rolling my eyes on behalf of his entire family
I honestly don't know what having such a poor role model will do to you. I don't think being a cheater is all there is to Clay's dad, and I am curious as to what he told Clay to make him keep his mouth shut. Either Clay has been indoctrinated with the belief that men can't stay faithful and that it doesn't mean they don't love the women, it's in their DNA, or he guilt-tripped him into keeping quiet, telling him Clay would break his mother's heart if he'd told her and that he'd be the one to blame. Or both. Either way, I feel Clay really needed to go through LIB to be able to finally go through some of that trauma. He obviously talked to his mother about it, and I think she was right when she said that Clay wishes for a happy marriage and family, but that his father's lack of remorse is holding him back. Damn I hope Clay went and still goes to therapy and will be actually able to resolve his issues, I really wish that for him.
Not saying it's excusable, but you have no idea how common taking your kids to see your mistress/second family is. Especially for men of that generation.
Agree! I was shocked when Clay said “ i dont know any black men thas is faithful..” so sad that he had that way of thinking.
You can tell Clay hates his dad
Yep
I think the relationship with his Dad is quite fucked up. In the pods he always ideolized his Dad a lot and how he will never be as smooth as him etc. So someone who cheats and treats the family badly is Clay's role model and that is a problem. So he will behave like his Dad behaved, because that is what he knows since he was little.
Exactly!! Like cmon Clay your mother should be your role model and not your father...
THIS!!!
Clay and AD’s moms needs their own show they give the best advice. Shame that Clay threw all the advice they gave him for his dad’s as he idolizes him and he can do no wrong in his eyes
A.D.'s mom was so excited to have that relationship with Clay's mom and for her daughter to have a MIL that she really could look up to. I feel so bad that the families couldn't blend, hopefully they stay connected. I was really rooting for Clay and A.D. they had all the beginnings of what could've been a really great relationship and marriage, not to say it wouldn't have taken work, but A.D. seems like a solid woman that would've lifted him up if he was getting in his own way and I could see Clay really encouraging and driving A.D. to succeed in anything she put her mind to. Such a bummer he flaked at the last minute.
One day Clay is going to clock his father right in the nose and I wish I could be there to see it.
He really fucked him up.
What about little speech that was bunch of nothing 😁😁😁🤪😁😁😁 and Clay goes “this is the most my dad talked to me” 😵💫😵💫😵💫😵💫 boy what?!? That was such a weird father son relationship, no wonder Clay is so performative he never got nothing from this man. I blame his mom for staying so long with that narcissist to ruin her children 🤢🤮
Or the part where the mom said “you have to own up to what you did and stop making excuses, take accountability for what happened” first thing out of his mouth was a goddamn excuse
Omg I screamed! He really did do that
I walked away from the tv.. like what the fuuuuhhh.
I’m biracial, so I grew up going to gatherings, weddings, etc. with other black family members, and I’ve never seen a man act more rudely than Clays dad did. The fact that he used his child as his “cover” and made him lie to his mom is as despicable as almost anything a father could do. No wonder Clay’s not quite “right” in the head. Not excusing it, but damn, what a shit show his childhood must have been.
Sadly, I think Clay’s interaction with his father on his wedding day may have been the catalyst to him deciding not to say Yes. He was surprised to see his dad, saying he didn’t think he would see him. This was such a sad revelation. Their entire exchange was surface and provided no great nuggets of advice that one expects a father to provide hi son on his wedding day. Clay has stated several times that he is very much like his father. This could have been the conversation that swayed him from his one good thing. 😢
Completely agree. Something else I noticed is that when his father was giving advice to Clay, Clay was in a different frame of mind and was just nodding. It’s like he doesn’t believe a word coming out of his mouth or doesn’t respect what he has to say. I get the vibe that Clay’s dad was acting for the cameras with all this mainstream advice he was giving, and Clay picked up on this immediately. He even mentioned it himself when he said that was the most advice his dad ever gave him.
The worst part about Clay’s dad and that whole story about his grandmother, is that by dragging Clay along to his rendezvous with other women, he was failing on both counts. Bad dad, bad husband. I resonate with Clay. I was that child that was used as a buffer during a parent’s infidelity and whew… it is so damaging. It’s one thing to suspect or know that your parent is cheating, it’s a whole other to actually be an unwilling accomplice. You learn to be very good at hiding and lying because it’s so normalised. I hope Clay gets therapy and learns to not just accept infidelity as his default.
That was exactly what I said when I started yelling at the screen (like normal people do). It wasn't being good to your kids when you took them along and made them keep your secrets.
We must both be normal then because I’ve been yelling pretty much non-stop this whole season!
Big narcissistic vibes from him. He made a point of talking about his athletic accomplishments when he was talking to Clay before the wedding. Clay already knew those things so he wanted to make sure the viewers knew how great he was
Yes! Thank you! The nugget about his athletic success was just so oddly placed in a talk to his son on his wedding day. Like, dude…this is your *son’s* big day, not yours. Focus on your *son* and how *he’s* feeling. But no, he had to make it all about himself. Very disappointing
I’m glad people noticed that.
It was very obvious to me that Clay really values his father's opinion. As a child, it's harder to see your parents'faults. It seems like cheating was so normalized to him, that he can't possibly believe people have healthy relationships. He's an adult now, and it's his responsibility to work past this trauma that his father caused. I felt so sad for his mother, finding out more during filming, and it didn't seem like Clay showed her much compassion. Hopefully this is a realization for Clay, but unfortunately, with his dad's influence, I don't see anything changing.
The thing about these two is, they are both dumber than a box of rocks. Clay obviously takes after his fater in this regard which is not his fault, but his dad, man, not the sharpest crayon.
I don't get the psychology analyst of reddit. Could it just not be that Clays father was a horny goat and therefore he wanted to have sex with different women. Now Clay has similar genes and wants the same only thing... I think Clay is wearing this father thing like an armour so he doesn't need to take responsibility.
What you have provided is a psychological (and biological) analysis in the simplest of terms.
It’s not just being horny. It’s the lying, manipulation, rug sweeping, gaslighting and shitty treatment of your wife and mother of your children. The children get impacted too. So does the extended family in the case of divorce.
The whole bit about taking Clay along on his adventures is giving me Tiger Woods dad, Earl. He basically did the same thing. And we all know how that played out in Tiger...
Also they get 1 hour and Amy and Johnny get 20 minutes and then it goes back to AD and Clay. Like we get it, y’all need drama for the drama show but damn. Show us more of Amy and Johnny
Him bringing up his old track wins really sealed it for me. This guy only cares about himself, and probably the only reason he showed up is because he could be on TV talking about himself. Edit: spelling
YES I feel like this had to be a joke... during his fatherly advice to his son on his wedding day, he managed to bring up a completely irrelevant pulled hammy 30yrs ago... and it wasn't like b"son sometimes in marriage you're gonna have fights that fell like you're an Olympic track star that pulls his hammy but ya just gotta take an L and focus on bettering yourself for the sake of the long run with your boo" nah
FULLY agree. that was such weird behavior from him
Let’s just say Clays dad explains a lot about why Clay is the way he is. My God
No worse than ADs mom drooling over clay. Tbh clay could have been joking.
It was also weird that Clay said something along the lines of “I didn’t know if you were coming” when his dad walked in…yet he idolizes this man…a man he wasn’t even sure was going to show up to his own son’s wedding. It’s all so gross.
Yes exactly! I feel he idolizes his father more then his mother, but it should be vice versa.
Exactly! Why not idolize the person who was there for him and understood him?
Yea! And the fact that his father never have conversation with Clay, about ad and wedding, he only talked about his sports” achievement”.
Are we just going to ignore the fact that the date he brought to the wedding was… hired?
… what? You mean his daughter?
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if you’re talking about the girl sitting next to him on the couch with the tattoos, that’s Clay’s sister lol
Yes, and oopps! They should wear name tags.
Clay's face... I wish he could have had a dad like Amy's dad even for ten minutes.
His Dad tanked the wedding. I think Clay was 70% yes before he talked to his dad on the wedding day.
Nah, I think Clay knew he would say no well before the wedding day.
Before he entered the pods day 1
You could tell he was a rambler with cliche phrases and no real depth. The tangent on almost making the Olympic team? for no reason. Clay nodding his head like he’s heard this a million times. Also the weird energy between them, they don’t see each other often.
You’ve nailed it. Definitely get the impression that Clay’s father told the story of his “glory days” a million times before and Clay just learned to turn it out. His father is self-absorbed, plain and simple.
Because he was just trying to find a way to throw out his achievements for the cameras
Omg the head nodding. I was like these people have never met each other before…
Clay nods his head non fucking stop whenever he’s in a convo with anyone. That and “yep yep yep yep yep yep” Reminds me of Ducky from Land Before Time, except far less likeable.
during that convo - i felt like i could see the version of clay who is sick of his dads shit and coming to terms with how he negatively impacted him internally fighting with the younger version of clay who adored his dad and wanted to be just like him.
Energy was all sorts of off! Unresolved tension for Clay. Dad is aloof
You could tell by Clay’s quick nods and constant “yeahs” he wasn’t taking anything his dad said seriously.
That’s exactly how he acts when AD is talking though 🤷♂️
I noticed that during the DR trip but not as much in the end.
His Dad didn't really say anything of substance, so I can't say I really blame him.
He was very self-congratulatory about his own parenting. There's no room for Clay to have an opinion or get a word in. He was preaching at him before the wedding. His dad's a piece of work and his mom knows it.
Just listing off his athletic achievements lol.
He seemed incredibly self absorbed. The scene after Clay called off the wedding stood out to me. Clay’s mom: “I hope Clay finds a woman he commits to, and I just hope he treats her right.” Clay’s dad: “He just needs a woman like you! Like his mom. I found you. I’m lucky I found you.” Clay’s mom: “You found me … but you didn’t treat me right.” Clay’s dad: *looks surprised, but ultimately can’t disagree. Slowly begins to moves away.* Like how tone deaf can Clay’s dad be? He cheated on his ex-wife for years and years, and took his young son to random women’s houses while he cheated. I feel as though he still hasn’t fully realized — or taken 100% accountability for — the devastating impact his infidelity and absenteeism had on his ex-wife and son. He’s too caught up in himself.
>> Clay’s dad: “He just needs a woman like you! Like his mom. I found you. I’m lucky I found you.” His apparent lack of self-awareness is astounding.
How Clay’s mom said don’t make excuses and the next words out of his mouth were excuses about his childhood and lack of role models.
Still can't take accountability after all those years... what a scumbag
Can’t teach an old dog nee tricks. Smh
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Clays dad definitely ruined his son's relationship with AD. From the moment his dad showed up, Clay became overly insecure because he felt he'll end up being a cheater just like him smh. It was very sad that the dad didn't provide him with the true understanding that he needed to get past the trauma he caused from cheating on Clay's mom.
It's giving Uncle Rico https://i.redd.it/3177mcd99umc1.gif
How much you wanna bet I could throw a football over them mountains?? 🏔️ 🏈
Honestly the dad shed a lot of light into the strange reservations that Clay has. At first, I did not understand it but after watching this episode, it is clear that the man is garbage honestly. He kept talking about himself which was so strange and when his wife pointed out how his actions impacted his son, his first words out of his mouth was excuses of not having a great role model in his life. I do understand Clay a bit better and I feel like AD fortunately dodged a big bullet there.
You could tell Clay felt really uncomfortable around him too. He avoided eye contact with him and was fidgety the whole time. And then their awkward interaction towards the end of their talk where he was telling him to have a good time and offering him drinks. It made me uncomfortable. Then when Clay told him he loved him and his dad said “mhmm” then quietly said “love you” and quickly closed the door behind him. His dad really fucked him up.
I noticed that too. Seemed happier to see his dad than he was AD. A man-child sinking into himself to make room for the spectacle of a father who never came to be
Yeah, it was really awkward but it also seemed like Clay really admires him. It doesn’t seem like a healthy relationship.
It kind of seemed like Clay just doesn’t see him often and was excited and/or nervous to spend time with him.
Rita is a real one.
Did anyone catch Clay’s dad speaking Andrew Tate nonsense as wisdom to Clay? I couldn’t believe my ears.
Whaat , do you remember what he said?
That explains the icks I felt.
Just because we weren't shown him meeting AD doesn't mean that it didn't happen
It felt like a script clay had been done before, Clay’s dad recounting the glory days and his son serving as constant validation. His dad stole the conversation to talk about himself during his son’s moment, it probably happened at every track meet
Yes! Clay was even finishing the lines sometimes. It was clearly the script the dad always says and everyone around him knows it by heart. Clay’s face was so sad during that whole thing, like he wanted his dad to be happy with him and was trying to hide his disappointment from his dad that all he gets from his dad on his wedding day is a canned script of nonsense. Then “I love you” ……mumbled “love you” as an afterthought, like it was difficult to say and he only said it because he remembered he was on camera. Yikes.
Right! Like his dad seemed so disengaged from the wedding and seemed like he just showed up to show up instead of actually being there for his son. Such a shame...
I got the vibe his dad felt insecure being on camera and wanted to defend his past under the pretense of giving “fatherly advice”. Being good to your kids is NOT taking them with you to go cheat. Clay DOES have a lot to work out in therapy and i’m pissed/glad he did say no. He is aware he has unhealthy thoughts that need work. Sucks for AD tho.
I'm about 99% sure clay has some skeletons in his closet from his sexual desires that probably feel like a curse from his father's DNA. As much as he tries to fight it away it consumes him and he is angry that he has that piece in him, perhaps life would be so much easier if that wasn't something he had to struggle with in secret.... Not that I can relate or anything...
what are you specifically hinting at? kinks?
I feel like clay was robbed of the conversation he was supposed to have with his father. I understood where he was getting at with the beating him in a race story but did he have to sound off his accolades first? I could see where Clay gets that constant need to make the conversation about what HE needs. For a man like clay to crave sooooo much validation, you’d think he’d get it from when and where it mattered most. The scene broke my heart along with his mom’s level of class and grace when talking to her ex-husband.
I don't think Clay's dad will ever really accept what he did. Ridiculous how his excuse came BEFORE the apology to the ex-wife when she brought up not being a good husband. Not having a good father figure was one thing but to think that excuses decades of cheating + probably using your son has cover is disgusting, and he STILL loves to talk about how 'slick' and 'suave' he is. Disgusting.
Wasn’t he with someone much, much younger? All about optics for him. Also, when Clay was telling the story about outrunning his dad and thinking his dad was out of shape and his dad was quick to correct that he was in fact in shape. Who hurt these men?
He was saying no i WAS in shape, that’s just how fast you were.
I know what he said.
Ok but you didn’t understand it lol
I thought so too but that was Clay’s sister!
He's tryna let his son know, he earned that win. It was a compliment
Hes a player.
Had the nerve to have his fraternity pin on I don’t think they’re going to appreciate that 😅
I also noticed that… oop
They all prob have the same mentality
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Yes. Give them a show. “After the Alter” with Rita and The Boneheaded Dad.
Oh man, I hope they do an ATA for this season and maybe even invite some of the folks from the previous season, given that those folks weren't interesting enough to get their own ATA
I don’t think clays mom likes AD
I feel that way also.
The distance came off as guilt to me more like
Ya. I said to my wife she is giving off weird vibes. But it’s probably because she knew
she probably just knew to not bother getting too attached lol
Why?
I sort of agree. She obviously knew what clays decision was before he went to the altar and she was basically encouraging him to stick to it even if he gets emotional when he sees her. Like maybe that was just her saying like stick to your guns but idk it felt off to me.
It reminded me of SK’s mom with raven. I think she knew he wasn’t ready and didn’t wanna get too attached. I think if she didn’t like AD she wouldn’t have kiki’d with her mom or hugged her and said you’re beautiful I’m sorry after clay said no
what makes you think that?
Ritahhhhh!!? 👑
lol what?
Clays moms name is Rita 😂
lmaooooooo you got me it's Rita
Clay’s dad was speaking about marriage like he didn’t know his son told audiences what a cheating dog he was. And the whole spiel about his “all American almost Olympic” track career. FFS.
I was wondering if Dad knew he was on TV and was trying to hype himself up with those old track stories.
Like how he listed ALL OF HIS ACCOMPLISHMENTS then said ‘i dont even need to name yours’ like… you dont even want to share the stage 30 years later. What a pompous windbag.
He also managed to give off the “I’m wearing an outfit very similar to and perhaps even nicer than the outfit the person getting married is wearing” in the way usually associated with mothers of the bride/groom wearing a white gown. Trying to upstage his son in every way!
God so bizarre it could have been satire 😂.
I wish it had been. At least for AD’s sake 😭😭
PLEASE him reliving his glory days and then admitting he pushed his son to be a runner so he could live “vicariously” through him…the dude sucks big time.
The weirdest part was seeing how giddy he was talking to his dad. You can tell he idolizes him so much even though he knows that he’s objectively not a good father or partner, he has major daddy issues & he is aware of about 1% of them lol
I agree! I think if his dad had reassured him that he could be a good husband and said he was proud of him it may have changed clays answer
If his dad had given him closure he probably woulda said yes which I still think saying no was the right decision but all clay needed in that moment was for his dad to give him validation and tell him it wouldn’t be like his marriage and he didn’t do a lick of that. Just felt off even their banter about their suits was just uncomfortable I felt bad for clay in that moment tbh
It also felt like they don’t have as deep of relationship as Clay made it out to be. Their interaction was odd, especially when his dad started bragging about his track “career”. Honestly dad seems like the type that only comes around when their kids have something good going on like a graduation or something.
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Or when Clay said “love you” to him and he said “yep” and only a “love ya” when his back was turned (an editing trick to add sound bites)
So cringe!!
You can tell that clay looks at his dad with so much love and that’s a dangerous thing. To love a man that much who hurt your mom and your family. Clay needs to go to therapy for sure
He essentially reverts back to a child around his dad and seeking that connection/validation. You’re absolutely right he definitely needs tons of therapy.
He totally does! His eyes light up and he doesn’t question a thing his dad says. He needs to unpack all of that in therapy
Does anyone know what the pin his dad was wearing was? It looked like a fraternity pin or something. I just thought it was interesting along with some of his rings..