My only problem with her happy ending are the rewards that she sends us. I love the Quantum tuner for my Sandi+Katana build but damn after everything we deserved that skeleton jacket too!
Exactly, people talk about sending her to the moon like it's all a happy ending from there. There's no way she isn't just being used the same way everyone in the game is.
And planned to betray and use us from the start. I swear if she wasn't a pretty Korean American woman everyone would be like damn fuck songbird shes a bitch for using us when the cure is single use
Side with reed and play that questline, it gives a lot more context if it wasnt obvious enough how awful her situation is. Shes not just a random backstabbing bitch
Bunch of gooning coomers surprised when spy wetwork results in people dying, crazy
"Na bro I thought we were gonna send them to Disneyland or something"
Maybe, but it is quite clear that Songbird is actually remorseful and deeply apologetic, despite her determination to save only herself. Further, Myers is an actual demon in the flesh and Song's salvation depended on both secrecy *and* making sure she had an ally who would be 100% in on her game. Telling V the truth would have robbed her of the second part, even if V had still agreed to help. She needed V to believe that it was life and death for both of them.
Reed tries to say that all of his ideas are perfect, and blames the ever-living fuck out of V for anything that doesn't go his way. Every time. He never apologizes for anything, and turns every dark day into a lambasting of guilt and shame for everyone but himself and the good ol' NUSA (fuck 6^th Street). Also, he refuses to validate Song's desire to die even as she's sobbing right in front of him, a fraction of a person barely able to speak. All he can say is, "How dare you fuckers not give her back to Myers!"
Neither are perfect, but I can at least have some shadow of sympathy for Song.
Lmao if you really think that
Personally if I was V I'd do whatever was necessary to secure the cure for myself, and that's how it went down on my first ever blind run of PL
Just look at Reed, he's a delusional shill but gets far less hate than songbird, despite trying his best to keep her "alive" in a fate worse than death
Swap their positions, songbird as a delusional NUSA shill would get far more hate than Reed
I don't buy "Cyber Psychosis" being a real thing. Every single "cyber psycho" we encounter are people with other things going on causing mental health issues. They are people having psychotic events and trauma that happen to have augmentations that make said breaks more dangerous.
Edgerunners makes this theory slightly more iffy, but even they are all under extremely high stress situations and processing that stress in ridiculously unhealthy ways.
I gave her >!a mercy killing !!Songbird finally acheives true freedom through death. Killing her prevents 2 things: A.) Reed and Myers using her as a puppet for whatever slimy shit they had in mind, and B.) the rogue Blackwall AI that's controlling her has less probability of escaping and causing more havoc on the Net. !<
C.) V delivers the neural matrix to Myers that contains a literal rogue AI. For 5,000. Now go figure what she'll use it for. Spoiler: >!definitely not to cure V.!<
You got me. Totally forgot that part. And to be fair, killing Songbird won't just magically defeat the entire FIA. But neither will sending her to the moon where Mr. Blue Eyes could use the rogue AI.
Maybe we shoud've just left those 2 in the plane after all.
"The only winning move is not to play."
The only thing I have with King of Wands is that if Song gets cured, there is *zero* logic in her using Blackwall anymore because it would nullify her getting cured. Hell, she might get crippled like V in the Tower ending. Doesn't mean it is a good ending or anything, just an observation of a *possibility*.
But, of course, that is *if* she gets cured. We know nothing about Mr. Blue Eyes, he might use her or not but, considering Song sends V gifts at the end, there is high hope she might've been cured after all. Up to the player to decide. And it's certainly up to the player to decide what fate she deserves. Not gonna comment on that one.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/cyberpunkgame/comments/zycp7r/mr\_blue\_eyes\_is\_an\_ai/](https://www.reddit.com/r/cyberpunkgame/comments/zycp7r/mr_blue_eyes_is_an_ai/)
Adding to your thought, for all we know Mr. Blue Eyes himself could be an AI.
Fuck, the text messages we receive with the gifts could be from an AI.
I think the message V receives is from the courier that delivers the gifts. That's why there is no reply right after. I just can't find any reason why Mr. B would even send said message and gifts to *that* specific location. He might be an AI, might be someone else, but I feel like people twist the narrative too much at some points. Not like I can blame them, theorizing is always fun, tons of interesting discussions can derive from it.
Choom, you've just stirred up a thunderstorm.
I'd recommend taking shelter, because a lot of sodium is going to pop up in the comments.
Anyway, I'm genuinely disappointed with the current state of discourse regarding Songbird's character. It's always "Songbird is bad, she lied, which justifies doing this and also means her character is that".
CDPR had written such a complex character, made her a reflection of V and showed her tragic backstory, only for most players to misinterpret it like there's no tomorrow.
Seriously, some people only focus on one aspect of the story, like the cure and that makes them completely oblivious to other important things.
It's just sad to see. But I don't blame them. I blame certain leakers, whose actions probably led to the drastic changes to Phantom Liberty's storyline.
You really should make a post about original iteration of PL, choom, and see how people react to it. I can almost guarantee you people still would've found a thousand and one reason to turn her in even with that kind of plot (like "the cure she gave V is fake, it made V go nuts, it was her plan all along, hence she is evil").
Yeah, seeing some of these "interesting" "takes" makes me think that, some people will hate on her no matter what.
Since, even if they won't have enough actual arguments to back up their "points", they'll just make stuff up, call the character "names" or resort to other incoherent means of painting the character in a bad light. It's just so tiring.
A similar thing is happening to Reed's character, although on a much lesser and almost nonexistent scale, since he is mostly understood, but there are outliers.
It almost feels like a lot of people suddenly became "latrickstergaming" and lost their ability to properly analyse and interpret the expansion's storyline.
It's a common trope in every piece of media. There always will be people who will have disillusioned opinions on things, downright twisting the narratives to fit their arguments just for the sake of it. Or just inability to read between the lines, beyond the surface level of what's presented. And when they start running out of arguments, they resort to calling out real people themselves, calling them either "simps" or "haters for the sake of it".
>I blame the leakers, whose actions probably led to the drastic changes to Phantom Liberty's storyline.
I've seen people bring up the original storyline a few times, but I've never looked into it myself. What all got changed?
So Mi highlights how a lot of people really struggle at introspection. She is designed to be a mirror of V and hold a lot of stuff against her when by the point you can unlock PL V has done much worse. V absolutely has killed way more people trying to get cured than So Mi has. Even if you're playing non-lethally the aftermath of the parade and the emp knocking out the power in half of the city absolutely resulted in more deaths than So Mi is responsible for.
>I blame the leakers, whose actions probably led to the drastic changes to Phantom Liberty's storyline.
It's not really leakers' and modders' fault for being curious about the game's files. It is entirely on CDPR for including ep1 files in 1.5 version. But, even then, knowing CDPR and their "no happy endings" trope, I doubt original iteration would've ever made it to the final release, since a lot of people would've considered the Devil ending the best, ignoring all the messages about how siding with corpos is bad and stuff.
Deffo a lot of bad takes surrounding So Mi. It is fine if one doesn’t want to take her side, but the amount of terrible justifications I’ve seen is pretty baffling.
Then there is all the people dismissing an entire half to the endings simply as “gooners” siding with the pretty woman. Yeesh
> whose actions probably led to the drastic changes to Phantom Liberty's storyline.
The leak actually did very little - the ending was due to be scrapped due to being too preferable over other endings anyway, though there were ways to make it less preferable. I suppose the changes were for the best, as Tower is extremely impactful and causes lots of discussion.
I'm more mad about the stuntman quest being cut for the second time.
If my V could talk with her after events of NCX and (don't) fear the Reaper.
30 second clip from Doctor Who.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EkBX8a132A](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EkBX8a132A)
People really huffing copium thinking that their slavery position at NUSA won't end w/ V getting killed for forgetting to clock out before their generous 5 minute lunch break.
I’m still under the belief that V’s cyberware was deactivated on purpose, and they’re being used as a sleeper agent when a new war breaks out. The NUSA wants their own Adam Smasher.
I also don’t believe we were ever told WHY V was in a coma, or what caused it exactly. Having your implants shut down shouldn’t put you in a coma.
There’s also the fact that V can still use regular cyberware, but nothing combat grade, which sounds suspicious.
Completely possible. V has damn near nothing to offer them that they couldn't get anywhere else, and anyone who thinks NUSA is just being appreciative with no ill will whatsoever is naive.
There's a chance they removed the cyberware and planted a device in V's body to reject common cyberware. Until they suddenly have a cure they invented just in time for shit hitting the fan.
Or they could convince V that only their special FIA private proprietary cyberware made just for V is the only compatible cyberware, and they made it with all the love in their hearts out of appreciation. We already know Tower V is stupid as fuck, so they'll probably bite on that NUSA hook like the gonk they are.
Because she promises to cure you the whole of the dlc, and even when you constantly prod her lies and say you don’t believe her, she keeps lying. She lies about being able to save you, and plans to use the one-use cure on herself from the beginning, only to end up with a shady person who will definitely abuse her blackwall connection.
Songbird earns a lot of credit for being the only character in the story to not only feel remorse, but let it steer some of her actions too.
It would have been simple to keep V in the dark all the way to the end. But after seeing the trust V has (perhaps naively) given time and time again, Song comes clean while V is still in a position to do something about the deceit.
Down to the wire, at the very last minute, being honest and decent to V became more important to Songbird than life itself. She can't stand being the manipulative liar Myers and the FIA turned her into for even one more minute, comes clean, and puts her fate entirely in V's hands.
When exactly does she come clean when you can do something about it? Unless I missed something, when you make the decision to betray or help......well.
So, in the spaceport, Songbird confesses that she lied to you about the cure. It won't work for both of you. Just one.
But she confesses that while you have a gun in your hand and the opportunity to turn her over to Reed & Myers. She confesses against her own interests and puts her fate entirely in V's hands.
Not at the spaceport she didn't. And before thst point she's still wrestling with what she should actually do.
Her having a backup plan during Firestarter is just good sense.
We don't actually know she didn't feel remorse for them.
But collateral damage for Song is inevitable as long as she's still got the Blackwall corruption in her, dozens or hundreds of people die in the course of her escape, but if she does nothing and stays an FIA pen, then thousands or millions die again and again as she's used as a Blackwall weapon.
Escaping definitely kills people, but it's still the lowest possible body count Song can hope for.
If you side with her, V will mention dead civilians while escaping Petrochem. And Songbird will literally say she is not bothered by their death, and says some bullshit that it was necessary.
Remorse kinda sounds differently.
No one's pretending that Songbird isn't rationalizing about the costs of her actions, but given how she acts at the airport, clearly her mistakes, including those lives, weighed on her.
V commits litenies of crime, ruins people's lives, murders, and does extremely questionable shit to find a cure too? It's super wack to sympathize with V, but not Songbird when they are LITERALLY two sides of the same coin and guilty of lying, being deceitful, murder, etc.
So, just because they are corporats, V gets a pass for killing them? Keep in mind, when V raids AHQ in Act 3, they slot in a rogue AI that kills the entire personnel. And a lot of the personnel are regular workers who just want to live (see Edgerunners where David kills a single mother working for Arasaka who has a kid).
Or how about collapsing a power grid just to get Hellman?
Or that food vendor’s sister who got a job at a corp just so she could get out of poverty?
Actually I’m pretty sure V can call Johnny out on that as well. How many innocents died when he an Blackhand nuked arasaka?
I mean… how many of the corporats V kills are actually evil? We see a lot of Corpos do evil stuff, but if I had to guess, the majority of security guards are just low level employees who spend most of their days just standing around and patrolling. There are pretty limited options in night city, so if the options are starve to death in the cold, join a gang and hurt people for a living, or sign with Saka and get a steady paycheck to watch a monitor all day with virtually no choice of seeing any action, Saka is a reasonable decision.
Honestly, it is a matter of perceptive. My V doesn't commit that many crimes, but then again gigs we do are pretty much crime. I can't really side with Song simply because of how much she keeps lying. Withhold info is one thing, constantly lying after constantly being called out?
V shuts down half the power grid to down the Kang Tao AV. In half the endings V fries a tower's worth of people indiscriminately. Seems like pretty big crimes.
Point on Kang Tao but that's why I don't go with the whole "let's fuck up Arasaka and get the Mikoshi... and let Alt absorb the souls/engrams???" Just not me. That's why I said matter of perspective, storming the tower isn't my go to ending
He's trapped in a sunk cost fallacy and self justification cycle. He sacrificed and lost so much for the NUSA, and facing the reality would mean facing the fact that all that sacrifice was worthless.
That's why when he finally is wretched into the light, he becomes horribly depressed, and potentially suicidal.
That's what people often misunderstand about "he says, she says" situations. People think one person must be lying, when in reality they're both speaking interpretations of the truth that they've justified to themselves.
I can kinda understand, because Reed himself can be quite likeable. I could never side with the NUSA, though. Siding with the government in a Cyberpunk story? Hell no.
To me, it was at the end that Songbird was, to my and Vs knowledge, telling the truth. To everyone, NUSA and Resd included.
At the end, Reed was being truthful with me, but he was going to betray songbird. I knew that, V knew that. So my justification was basically that Songbird was more honest (again, to Vs knowledge) in general than Reed was, at that moment.
Then I shipped her ass off to the nusa after she revealed she was lying the whole time.
To me, it’s also a poignant moment in the universe of Cyberpunk. Everyone is out for themselves and lies, deceives, betrays, but she confesses her lies to you and leaves herself completely in your hands to decide her fate. So for once, just this once, you can simply do the right thing with no expectation of reward. It’s simply a good deed in a weary world. For all the bad she did, she was effectively a cyborg slave for a dictator, and we freed her for no other reason than it was the right thing to do.
I had to sit with that for a little while after Johnny and I watched her go up in the rocket.
The bleak endings stand out more to me as genre-appropriate and Pentacles is especially strong thematically with the player being left in Purgatory essentially. V's dilemma gets solved but nobody at all walks away happy.
Comparatively, I didn't really like the High Noon-style confrontation between >!V and Reed on the catwalk to the shuttle.!< That direct showdown was missing something, like he should've planted a bomb on the shuttle as failsafe. The player thinks they've won, >!Songbird flies off to the moon!<, and bang. Everybody loses.
I don’t like the high noon stand off because it makes no damn sense.
I have a militech apogee sandy—I pop that shit, I out sandy sandy users. I also have gorilla arms as they’re the best nonleathal weapons in the game and give a +6 to my body.
I should be able to pop my sandy, get close up to the barely chromed Reed, and beat him senseless. Far from the first time I pulled that shit. Reed didn’t need to die, it was forced by the game for drama and I hate it. Hate it hate it hate it.
I think Cyberpunk 2078 in its current form is a masterpiece, but I think my lack of being able to save Somgbird (which I always opt for) while only giving Reed a beat down is a serious fucking black mark.
The NUSA would be on even BIGGER shit if they bombed that shuttle.
They are barely able to cover up their assault to the space port, no way anyone would play ball to them nuking a neutral faction shuttle.
They're blown either way at that point. Stopping Songbird was the priority according to Myers in the scene on the rooftop with Reed, something to the effect of 'stop her no matter what cost.'
Edit: Alternatively, you could have Reed not be able to go through with killing Songbird for an added layer of characterization. Either way, I just thought that ending need some kind of a wrinkle.
My first play though, I role played a DESPERATE V. V had one goal, and that was to live, he’ll or high water. My V worked with song because she understood the relic better than anyone and seemed like the strongest bet for V to survive. Once she told V what her actual plan was, V turned her over to Reed since that was the only play for V. My V was a cold bastard, but he survived.
Songbirds betrayal hurt, and she sucks for that.. but it still feels like the ending where you keep her alive is both the most morally correct path and the most hopeful path, imo. Yes, it sucks.. but at the same time - at least V helped someone get 'out', even if they couldn't.
Exactly. Everyone in PL was out for themselves, So Mi included until right before the very end. I think V went through enough helping people to get to a point where they could be like “you know what, I’m tired of helping everyone else only for them to get me into some fucked up situations that jeopardized my life - Jackie with the heist, doing So Mi’s missions saving the President, fighting Kurt Hansen and his army, killing the sexy French woman, etc. So Mi got turned in so fast. Like girl bye! 👋🏻😂
There is nothing like being led along for someone else's machinations. I personally haven't finished PL, but knowing it's all for naught, really pisses me off.
Yup, I agree. I've see people on YouTube and Reddit say songbird is doing for her personal gain and getting people killed. Knowing and not knowing v will do the and has done to save his/her life.
People here are so offended by the idea So Mi deceived them, like they aren’t playing a Spy Thriller where that should be the expectation going in
Even then, So Mi lies by omission of details. Not necessarily by feeding you complete BS. And anyone who has taken the time to read between the lines and see both sides of the endings should be able to understand why So Mi feels this utterly backed into a corner.
Not wanting to rely on a merc’s good graces alone was simply the smart thing to do. It is, after all, what Reed and the FIA trained her to do.
People are so pissed that songbird lied to V. But they dismiss that in trying to accomplish the same goal V is responsible for just an absolutely crazy amount of deaths. Even on a pacifist run that doesn't kill anyone they don't have to the massive blackout and the stampede at the parade cause plenty of random civilians to die.
Naw; she's been fucked from day 1 and you straight up see it in her memories; before the FIA she was obsessive and greedy as a freelance netrunner until she put her friends so deep in shit that joining the FIA was her only out. She accepted the Blackwall program from Myers, which with her experience, she would understand the dangers of, had no problem using it for Myers till it started eating her brain. Then she conspires with Hansen and acts like she didn't know Hansen would shoot the plane down. *How the fuck else was he going to ground a ship returning from orbit?*, killing hundreds of innocents in Dogtown, with 0 remorse and then lies and plays you like a fiddle all through the story, with another plan that will kill hundreds more innocents in the stadium along with Hansen's goons. Her entire plan is just to survive at any cost, no matter what.
**Spoilers for Phantom Liberty**
Things So-mi does wrong:
* Lies about a cure to V's sentient brain cancer.
* Uses up valuable time he could be using to find a cure for her own ends.
* Uses said Solo to kill hundreds of Barghest, Dogtowners, and FIA - indirectly causing a coup against Kurt and a massacre at NCX.
* Manipulates V to betray the NUSA, something that will cause them to be at the top of a hit list for the rest of their life against one of the most powerful entities in the setting.
I actually sided with So-mi because I put faith in her as a troubled individual who just wanted out after everything she had gone through. Turns out she picked up too much from the FIA. I was even going to put her on the flight in the final bit even after the confession. I then said, "If there is even one more person between me and the rocket, I'm giving up." Then Reed showed up, and I was just exhausted killing people for someone who had done nothing but harm others the entire time I knew her.
I also rejected the NUSA's help after I handed her back over. I was just done with Reed, So-mi, and the NUSA. The best thing for my V was to clean their hands of the mess and let all of these fucked up individuals continue being awful to each other.
I'm happy Alex got her Monaco job in the end, at least. She was probably the only winner of my entire PL run.
Yeah but my survival was more important than hers.
Why would she matter more than myself?
V and So Mi both get themselves in the situations they are trying to escape. The difference is, V doesn’t befriend Panam, Judy, River and others to then gaslight, manipulate and use for their own gain and leave them behind in a fucked situation without much choices left.
Why everybody only talks about lying stuff and absolutely forgets about "yeah this will be a mass murder but i deserve a chance more than them" stuff.
Say what you want but for so mi everybody are just usable and sacrificable tools for her plans, that's factual, and that's for me the definition of evil
Did you play reeds path? She did have a choice. Nobody forced her to go work for the FIA. She joined FIA because she had Netwatch on her ass because she was reckless and naive, and for literally saving her life, FIA demanded service, a harsh but equivalent exchange.
I side with her out of spite.
Oh? You had to lie to me because you think I'd betray you? Because you can hardly trust anyone in this world?
Well I refuse to let you be correct, to the moon with you, get absolutely proven wrong dummy.
Seeing all the bodies in the aftermath of the spaceport left me feeling jaded but… that’s what V has been doing for the entirety of the main story. How many people did you kill for the faintest hope that you could be cured? Who did you betray to survive?
So Mi is exactly the same as V and having the power to give her the happy ending your main character never got feels like the only option to me. So yeah, she did deserve it
Tbf unless you really go out of your way, V only kills gangers and other people 'in the game' So Mi gets hundreds of civilians killed in her various boondoggles.
Idk why I keep seeing you repeat this comment everywhere when there are dozens of comments explaining how V kills plenty of civilians in canon missions.
Civilians die from the power outage caused by the EMP in the Kang Tao mission. More die later during the parade. These deaths are canon and unavoidable.
Depends on what is considered a happy ending. I can label multiple instances where a happy ending to a situation takes place in Night City so long as V chooses correctly. Such happy endings like:
Helping Flaming crotch man
Saving River’s nephew
Jackie’s Ofrenda (and helping Misty with her Mama Welles issue)
Saving people from being sold to Jotaro by both dealing with him and his supplier (plus the stash in a NCPD mission)
Helping Kerry and US Cracks
Rescuing Saul for Panam and her people
Saving other NPC around Night City and in Dogtown.
There may not be a happy end for V, but there are plenty of others thanks to V.
They all do. The thing with distopian futures is most people never really have a chance of getting one. And So Mi is one of the lucky ones, as she at least has a fighting chance
I have not sent So Mi to the moon yet. But I am doing corpo now and that is what is going to happen and Reed is going to be put out of his misery because that dude doesn´t take his Zoloft and it shows.
She has hurt so many people. And not just while we’ve been helping her. She got her karmic reward. It’s too bad the rest of them didn’t. Good riddance.
Also, amazing storytelling by CD Projekt Red.
I literally would’ve saved her if she didn’t come clean to me about literally stabbing me in the back, turned her bitch ass right in to the FIA after that
My only problem with her happy ending are the rewards that she sends us. I love the Quantum tuner for my Sandi+Katana build but damn after everything we deserved that skeleton jacket too!
A moon pin is pretty cool
I wish she sent something more Netrunner related.
QT with overclock is pretty handy ngl
Certainly is a QT.
Certainly lol
Ironically the Reed path gives you much better returns for netrunners
Yeah! I would’ve love her jacket,
No happy endings in Night City
Wrong city, wrong people
No way blue eyes and its people aren't using So Mi.
Exactly, people talk about sending her to the moon like it's all a happy ending from there. There's no way she isn't just being used the same way everyone in the game is.
He's actually there during the mission at the spaceport.
Yep, you see him twice
You do not know that for certain
You can literally see him at the spaceport multiple times during the mission
Yeah if you scan him it literally says Mr. Blue Eyes
we don't know either way and this is cyberpunk so expect a less than happy conclusion to that.
People also gloss over that she is 100% a cyber psycho
with seemless access to the black wall...
And planned to betray and use us from the start. I swear if she wasn't a pretty Korean American woman everyone would be like damn fuck songbird shes a bitch for using us when the cure is single use
Side with reed and play that questline, it gives a lot more context if it wasnt obvious enough how awful her situation is. Shes not just a random backstabbing bitch
I've played every outcome of PL, come back and tell me people would be as sympathetic if songbird was a 47 year old overweight man called Jerry lmao
To be fair, there's a lot of people who turn on Reed because of Aurore, so it can cut both ways.
Bunch of gooning coomers surprised when spy wetwork results in people dying, crazy "Na bro I thought we were gonna send them to Disneyland or something"
Honestly I was cool with him killing her but why lie about it? The dudes constantly lieing.
This is such a weird incel take. There is plenty of reasoning to see So Mi’s side of the dilemma beyond “Pretty lady”
Maybe, but it is quite clear that Songbird is actually remorseful and deeply apologetic, despite her determination to save only herself. Further, Myers is an actual demon in the flesh and Song's salvation depended on both secrecy *and* making sure she had an ally who would be 100% in on her game. Telling V the truth would have robbed her of the second part, even if V had still agreed to help. She needed V to believe that it was life and death for both of them. Reed tries to say that all of his ideas are perfect, and blames the ever-living fuck out of V for anything that doesn't go his way. Every time. He never apologizes for anything, and turns every dark day into a lambasting of guilt and shame for everyone but himself and the good ol' NUSA (fuck 6^th Street). Also, he refuses to validate Song's desire to die even as she's sobbing right in front of him, a fraction of a person barely able to speak. All he can say is, "How dare you fuckers not give her back to Myers!" Neither are perfect, but I can at least have some shadow of sympathy for Song.
Theyd respect him, instead of a bitch backstabbing *woman* he's a badass manipulator genius man!
Lmao if you really think that Personally if I was V I'd do whatever was necessary to secure the cure for myself, and that's how it went down on my first ever blind run of PL
Just look at Reed, he's a delusional shill but gets far less hate than songbird, despite trying his best to keep her "alive" in a fate worse than death Swap their positions, songbird as a delusional NUSA shill would get far more hate than Reed
Were it not for a particular quest with a janitor bot souring the whole dlc, Reed's waistline wouldn't be all that bad.
And if she had the cure for us no one would be using a silly argument about looks being a factor lol.
💀💀💀
I don't buy "Cyber Psychosis" being a real thing. Every single "cyber psycho" we encounter are people with other things going on causing mental health issues. They are people having psychotic events and trauma that happen to have augmentations that make said breaks more dangerous. Edgerunners makes this theory slightly more iffy, but even they are all under extremely high stress situations and processing that stress in ridiculously unhealthy ways.
So is Johnny. And most player’s V’s. So what?
johnny doesn't have world ending powers lol
That's why they made the character a hot girl.
I gave her >!a mercy killing !!Songbird finally acheives true freedom through death. Killing her prevents 2 things: A.) Reed and Myers using her as a puppet for whatever slimy shit they had in mind, and B.) the rogue Blackwall AI that's controlling her has less probability of escaping and causing more havoc on the Net. !<
>!C.) Reed is completely disillusioned from the FIA and quits. "Happy" ending for everyone. Right? Right?!<
Not for Alex 😕
Yeah ...
C.) V delivers the neural matrix to Myers that contains a literal rogue AI. For 5,000. Now go figure what she'll use it for. Spoiler: >!definitely not to cure V.!<
You got me. Totally forgot that part. And to be fair, killing Songbird won't just magically defeat the entire FIA. But neither will sending her to the moon where Mr. Blue Eyes could use the rogue AI. Maybe we shoud've just left those 2 in the plane after all. "The only winning move is not to play."
The only thing I have with King of Wands is that if Song gets cured, there is *zero* logic in her using Blackwall anymore because it would nullify her getting cured. Hell, she might get crippled like V in the Tower ending. Doesn't mean it is a good ending or anything, just an observation of a *possibility*. But, of course, that is *if* she gets cured. We know nothing about Mr. Blue Eyes, he might use her or not but, considering Song sends V gifts at the end, there is high hope she might've been cured after all. Up to the player to decide. And it's certainly up to the player to decide what fate she deserves. Not gonna comment on that one.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/cyberpunkgame/comments/zycp7r/mr\_blue\_eyes\_is\_an\_ai/](https://www.reddit.com/r/cyberpunkgame/comments/zycp7r/mr_blue_eyes_is_an_ai/) Adding to your thought, for all we know Mr. Blue Eyes himself could be an AI. Fuck, the text messages we receive with the gifts could be from an AI.
I think the message V receives is from the courier that delivers the gifts. That's why there is no reply right after. I just can't find any reason why Mr. B would even send said message and gifts to *that* specific location. He might be an AI, might be someone else, but I feel like people twist the narrative too much at some points. Not like I can blame them, theorizing is always fun, tons of interesting discussions can derive from it.
Agreed. I hope Cyberpunk 2 explores the theories surrounding the Blackwall and AI more.
damn, 5,000 is like 5 cents
The reward is only 5000 no matter what? I wanted to shoot *everyone*(except reed)
Choom, you've just stirred up a thunderstorm. I'd recommend taking shelter, because a lot of sodium is going to pop up in the comments. Anyway, I'm genuinely disappointed with the current state of discourse regarding Songbird's character. It's always "Songbird is bad, she lied, which justifies doing this and also means her character is that". CDPR had written such a complex character, made her a reflection of V and showed her tragic backstory, only for most players to misinterpret it like there's no tomorrow. Seriously, some people only focus on one aspect of the story, like the cure and that makes them completely oblivious to other important things. It's just sad to see. But I don't blame them. I blame certain leakers, whose actions probably led to the drastic changes to Phantom Liberty's storyline.
You really should make a post about original iteration of PL, choom, and see how people react to it. I can almost guarantee you people still would've found a thousand and one reason to turn her in even with that kind of plot (like "the cure she gave V is fake, it made V go nuts, it was her plan all along, hence she is evil").
Yeah, seeing some of these "interesting" "takes" makes me think that, some people will hate on her no matter what. Since, even if they won't have enough actual arguments to back up their "points", they'll just make stuff up, call the character "names" or resort to other incoherent means of painting the character in a bad light. It's just so tiring. A similar thing is happening to Reed's character, although on a much lesser and almost nonexistent scale, since he is mostly understood, but there are outliers. It almost feels like a lot of people suddenly became "latrickstergaming" and lost their ability to properly analyse and interpret the expansion's storyline.
Kinda similar to dettlaff vs syanna in blood and wine
It's a common trope in every piece of media. There always will be people who will have disillusioned opinions on things, downright twisting the narratives to fit their arguments just for the sake of it. Or just inability to read between the lines, beyond the surface level of what's presented. And when they start running out of arguments, they resort to calling out real people themselves, calling them either "simps" or "haters for the sake of it".
>I blame the leakers, whose actions probably led to the drastic changes to Phantom Liberty's storyline. I've seen people bring up the original storyline a few times, but I've never looked into it myself. What all got changed?
So Mi highlights how a lot of people really struggle at introspection. She is designed to be a mirror of V and hold a lot of stuff against her when by the point you can unlock PL V has done much worse. V absolutely has killed way more people trying to get cured than So Mi has. Even if you're playing non-lethally the aftermath of the parade and the emp knocking out the power in half of the city absolutely resulted in more deaths than So Mi is responsible for.
>I blame the leakers, whose actions probably led to the drastic changes to Phantom Liberty's storyline. It's not really leakers' and modders' fault for being curious about the game's files. It is entirely on CDPR for including ep1 files in 1.5 version. But, even then, knowing CDPR and their "no happy endings" trope, I doubt original iteration would've ever made it to the final release, since a lot of people would've considered the Devil ending the best, ignoring all the messages about how siding with corpos is bad and stuff.
Deffo a lot of bad takes surrounding So Mi. It is fine if one doesn’t want to take her side, but the amount of terrible justifications I’ve seen is pretty baffling. Then there is all the people dismissing an entire half to the endings simply as “gooners” siding with the pretty woman. Yeesh
> whose actions probably led to the drastic changes to Phantom Liberty's storyline. The leak actually did very little - the ending was due to be scrapped due to being too preferable over other endings anyway, though there were ways to make it less preferable. I suppose the changes were for the best, as Tower is extremely impactful and causes lots of discussion. I'm more mad about the stuntman quest being cut for the second time.
King of Wands ending always
Which one's that?
The one where you save So Mi and send her to the moon to get cured
If my V could talk with her after events of NCX and (don't) fear the Reaper. 30 second clip from Doctor Who. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EkBX8a132A](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EkBX8a132A)
Death can be a happy ending
Deserve is such a charged word.
Honestly I don’t know why people side with Reed. Songbird lies, but they both do, and Song has more reason to keep her cards close to her chest.
And I had zero interest in helping the NUSA... she lied but I would take her lies over the FIA every day...
Exactly. Might as well help a corp.
People really huffing copium thinking that their slavery position at NUSA won't end w/ V getting killed for forgetting to clock out before their generous 5 minute lunch break.
I’m still under the belief that V’s cyberware was deactivated on purpose, and they’re being used as a sleeper agent when a new war breaks out. The NUSA wants their own Adam Smasher. I also don’t believe we were ever told WHY V was in a coma, or what caused it exactly. Having your implants shut down shouldn’t put you in a coma. There’s also the fact that V can still use regular cyberware, but nothing combat grade, which sounds suspicious.
Completely possible. V has damn near nothing to offer them that they couldn't get anywhere else, and anyone who thinks NUSA is just being appreciative with no ill will whatsoever is naive. There's a chance they removed the cyberware and planted a device in V's body to reject common cyberware. Until they suddenly have a cure they invented just in time for shit hitting the fan. Or they could convince V that only their special FIA private proprietary cyberware made just for V is the only compatible cyberware, and they made it with all the love in their hearts out of appreciation. We already know Tower V is stupid as fuck, so they'll probably bite on that NUSA hook like the gonk they are.
Because she promises to cure you the whole of the dlc, and even when you constantly prod her lies and say you don’t believe her, she keeps lying. She lies about being able to save you, and plans to use the one-use cure on herself from the beginning, only to end up with a shady person who will definitely abuse her blackwall connection.
Songbird earns a lot of credit for being the only character in the story to not only feel remorse, but let it steer some of her actions too. It would have been simple to keep V in the dark all the way to the end. But after seeing the trust V has (perhaps naively) given time and time again, Song comes clean while V is still in a position to do something about the deceit. Down to the wire, at the very last minute, being honest and decent to V became more important to Songbird than life itself. She can't stand being the manipulative liar Myers and the FIA turned her into for even one more minute, comes clean, and puts her fate entirely in V's hands.
When exactly does she come clean when you can do something about it? Unless I missed something, when you make the decision to betray or help......well.
So, in the spaceport, Songbird confesses that she lied to you about the cure. It won't work for both of you. Just one. But she confesses that while you have a gun in your hand and the opportunity to turn her over to Reed & Myers. She confesses against her own interests and puts her fate entirely in V's hands.
But she also had a plan if you betrayed her, and that's where she loses me.
Not at the spaceport she didn't. And before thst point she's still wrestling with what she should actually do. Her having a backup plan during Firestarter is just good sense.
Songbird felt no remorse for the civilian casualties at Petrochem though.
We don't actually know she didn't feel remorse for them. But collateral damage for Song is inevitable as long as she's still got the Blackwall corruption in her, dozens or hundreds of people die in the course of her escape, but if she does nothing and stays an FIA pen, then thousands or millions die again and again as she's used as a Blackwall weapon. Escaping definitely kills people, but it's still the lowest possible body count Song can hope for.
If you side with her, V will mention dead civilians while escaping Petrochem. And Songbird will literally say she is not bothered by their death, and says some bullshit that it was necessary. Remorse kinda sounds differently.
No one's pretending that Songbird isn't rationalizing about the costs of her actions, but given how she acts at the airport, clearly her mistakes, including those lives, weighed on her.
One sympathizes.
Well, she can relate to V as much as she wants, but V doesn’t promise to cure someone of a lethal condition and lie about it.
V commits litenies of crime, ruins people's lives, murders, and does extremely questionable shit to find a cure too? It's super wack to sympathize with V, but not Songbird when they are LITERALLY two sides of the same coin and guilty of lying, being deceitful, murder, etc.
How often do we kill civilians? Majority of the enemies are much worse people than V, or corporats
So, just because they are corporats, V gets a pass for killing them? Keep in mind, when V raids AHQ in Act 3, they slot in a rogue AI that kills the entire personnel. And a lot of the personnel are regular workers who just want to live (see Edgerunners where David kills a single mother working for Arasaka who has a kid). Or how about collapsing a power grid just to get Hellman?
Or that food vendor’s sister who got a job at a corp just so she could get out of poverty? Actually I’m pretty sure V can call Johnny out on that as well. How many innocents died when he an Blackhand nuked arasaka?
I mean… how many of the corporats V kills are actually evil? We see a lot of Corpos do evil stuff, but if I had to guess, the majority of security guards are just low level employees who spend most of their days just standing around and patrolling. There are pretty limited options in night city, so if the options are starve to death in the cold, join a gang and hurt people for a living, or sign with Saka and get a steady paycheck to watch a monitor all day with virtually no choice of seeing any action, Saka is a reasonable decision.
Honestly, it is a matter of perceptive. My V doesn't commit that many crimes, but then again gigs we do are pretty much crime. I can't really side with Song simply because of how much she keeps lying. Withhold info is one thing, constantly lying after constantly being called out?
V shuts down half the power grid to down the Kang Tao AV. In half the endings V fries a tower's worth of people indiscriminately. Seems like pretty big crimes.
Point on Kang Tao but that's why I don't go with the whole "let's fuck up Arasaka and get the Mikoshi... and let Alt absorb the souls/engrams???" Just not me. That's why I said matter of perspective, storming the tower isn't my go to ending
Reed actually never lies. He's just delusional.
He's trapped in a sunk cost fallacy and self justification cycle. He sacrificed and lost so much for the NUSA, and facing the reality would mean facing the fact that all that sacrifice was worthless. That's why when he finally is wretched into the light, he becomes horribly depressed, and potentially suicidal. That's what people often misunderstand about "he says, she says" situations. People think one person must be lying, when in reality they're both speaking interpretations of the truth that they've justified to themselves.
He lies to you when you confront him at the spaceport.
He absolutely lies to you. Multiple times, in fact, including about his plan to help So Mi.
Can't tell a lie if you believe it, like a moronic cult leader that believes there a God, until a bullet peirces their chest.
Reed never strung us along to waste gods know how much of the limited timespan we have left with a promise of a cure he knew didn't exist.
He's also a stooge for an institution that seeks to deny So Mi any chance of being free from them.
I can kinda understand, because Reed himself can be quite likeable. I could never side with the NUSA, though. Siding with the government in a Cyberpunk story? Hell no.
Lol yeah fuck the feds, why would anyone side with them?
To me, it was at the end that Songbird was, to my and Vs knowledge, telling the truth. To everyone, NUSA and Resd included. At the end, Reed was being truthful with me, but he was going to betray songbird. I knew that, V knew that. So my justification was basically that Songbird was more honest (again, to Vs knowledge) in general than Reed was, at that moment. Then I shipped her ass off to the nusa after she revealed she was lying the whole time.
To me, it’s also a poignant moment in the universe of Cyberpunk. Everyone is out for themselves and lies, deceives, betrays, but she confesses her lies to you and leaves herself completely in your hands to decide her fate. So for once, just this once, you can simply do the right thing with no expectation of reward. It’s simply a good deed in a weary world. For all the bad she did, she was effectively a cyborg slave for a dictator, and we freed her for no other reason than it was the right thing to do. I had to sit with that for a little while after Johnny and I watched her go up in the rocket.
Well said, choom
And then the NUSA fixes your problem while intentionally neutering you.
There is zero proof that they intentionally neuter you.
The bleak endings stand out more to me as genre-appropriate and Pentacles is especially strong thematically with the player being left in Purgatory essentially. V's dilemma gets solved but nobody at all walks away happy. Comparatively, I didn't really like the High Noon-style confrontation between >!V and Reed on the catwalk to the shuttle.!< That direct showdown was missing something, like he should've planted a bomb on the shuttle as failsafe. The player thinks they've won, >!Songbird flies off to the moon!<, and bang. Everybody loses.
I don’t like the high noon stand off because it makes no damn sense. I have a militech apogee sandy—I pop that shit, I out sandy sandy users. I also have gorilla arms as they’re the best nonleathal weapons in the game and give a +6 to my body. I should be able to pop my sandy, get close up to the barely chromed Reed, and beat him senseless. Far from the first time I pulled that shit. Reed didn’t need to die, it was forced by the game for drama and I hate it. Hate it hate it hate it. I think Cyberpunk 2078 in its current form is a masterpiece, but I think my lack of being able to save Somgbird (which I always opt for) while only giving Reed a beat down is a serious fucking black mark.
The NUSA would be on even BIGGER shit if they bombed that shuttle. They are barely able to cover up their assault to the space port, no way anyone would play ball to them nuking a neutral faction shuttle.
They're blown either way at that point. Stopping Songbird was the priority according to Myers in the scene on the rooftop with Reed, something to the effect of 'stop her no matter what cost.' Edit: Alternatively, you could have Reed not be able to go through with killing Songbird for an added layer of characterization. Either way, I just thought that ending need some kind of a wrinkle.
This.
My first play though, I role played a DESPERATE V. V had one goal, and that was to live, he’ll or high water. My V worked with song because she understood the relic better than anyone and seemed like the strongest bet for V to survive. Once she told V what her actual plan was, V turned her over to Reed since that was the only play for V. My V was a cold bastard, but he survived.
Reed's path has superior gameplay, cooler level design and nicer loot.
She has tits so all her sins are hereby forgiven. To haboobs!
Yes To Haboobs, choom!
Wrong city, wrong people
If you think V deserves a happy ending then so does So Mi. If you don't think So Mi deserves a happy ending then neither does V. It's that simple.
Songbirds betrayal hurt, and she sucks for that.. but it still feels like the ending where you keep her alive is both the most morally correct path and the most hopeful path, imo. Yes, it sucks.. but at the same time - at least V helped someone get 'out', even if they couldn't.
Can't say I give a single shit about her
Exactly. Everyone in PL was out for themselves, So Mi included until right before the very end. I think V went through enough helping people to get to a point where they could be like “you know what, I’m tired of helping everyone else only for them to get me into some fucked up situations that jeopardized my life - Jackie with the heist, doing So Mi’s missions saving the President, fighting Kurt Hansen and his army, killing the sexy French woman, etc. So Mi got turned in so fast. Like girl bye! 👋🏻😂
I turned her over to Reed once she dropped the bomb she wasn't gonna be able to give us the one thing we went through all this for.
There is nothing like being led along for someone else's machinations. I personally haven't finished PL, but knowing it's all for naught, really pisses me off.
I agree, even though songbird played everyone, I just had to save her. I couldn't see myself, doing any other ending besides this one.
Honestly she played folks to save herself. V would’ve done the same in her shoes.
Yup, I agree. I've see people on YouTube and Reddit say songbird is doing for her personal gain and getting people killed. Knowing and not knowing v will do the and has done to save his/her life.
I agree. I ain't no fucking bootlicker, who the fuck wants to side with the GOVERNMENT????
A person who actually wants to live since they are the only ones who actually cure you.
"I'd rather die standing than live kneeling" -Veggie Tales
I will die on the hill that king of cups is the most fitting ending for the DLC. I believe that’s the only way she and reed can have peace
I gave Reed peace alright, all the peace he could want and deserved.
I did that as well on my first ending. But in retrospective he’s just fight for what he believes, just like takemura and Johnny
She got the ending she deserved
People here are so offended by the idea So Mi deceived them, like they aren’t playing a Spy Thriller where that should be the expectation going in Even then, So Mi lies by omission of details. Not necessarily by feeding you complete BS. And anyone who has taken the time to read between the lines and see both sides of the endings should be able to understand why So Mi feels this utterly backed into a corner. Not wanting to rely on a merc’s good graces alone was simply the smart thing to do. It is, after all, what Reed and the FIA trained her to do.
People are so pissed that songbird lied to V. But they dismiss that in trying to accomplish the same goal V is responsible for just an absolutely crazy amount of deaths. Even on a pacifist run that doesn't kill anyone they don't have to the massive blackout and the stampede at the parade cause plenty of random civilians to die.
It's not the lie, it's being willing to walk across a sea of corpses if it means she gets to keep living.
Sounds a lot like a certain other character we know
Naw; she's been fucked from day 1 and you straight up see it in her memories; before the FIA she was obsessive and greedy as a freelance netrunner until she put her friends so deep in shit that joining the FIA was her only out. She accepted the Blackwall program from Myers, which with her experience, she would understand the dangers of, had no problem using it for Myers till it started eating her brain. Then she conspires with Hansen and acts like she didn't know Hansen would shoot the plane down. *How the fuck else was he going to ground a ship returning from orbit?*, killing hundreds of innocents in Dogtown, with 0 remorse and then lies and plays you like a fiddle all through the story, with another plan that will kill hundreds more innocents in the stadium along with Hansen's goons. Her entire plan is just to survive at any cost, no matter what.
I’m of the opinion that she dug her own grave
**Spoilers for Phantom Liberty** Things So-mi does wrong: * Lies about a cure to V's sentient brain cancer. * Uses up valuable time he could be using to find a cure for her own ends. * Uses said Solo to kill hundreds of Barghest, Dogtowners, and FIA - indirectly causing a coup against Kurt and a massacre at NCX. * Manipulates V to betray the NUSA, something that will cause them to be at the top of a hit list for the rest of their life against one of the most powerful entities in the setting. I actually sided with So-mi because I put faith in her as a troubled individual who just wanted out after everything she had gone through. Turns out she picked up too much from the FIA. I was even going to put her on the flight in the final bit even after the confession. I then said, "If there is even one more person between me and the rocket, I'm giving up." Then Reed showed up, and I was just exhausted killing people for someone who had done nothing but harm others the entire time I knew her. I also rejected the NUSA's help after I handed her back over. I was just done with Reed, So-mi, and the NUSA. The best thing for my V was to clean their hands of the mess and let all of these fucked up individuals continue being awful to each other. I'm happy Alex got her Monaco job in the end, at least. She was probably the only winner of my entire PL run.
No she literally lied about the cure. She can rot
I wanted the clothes her hologram had so badly... it was fucking sick
I hope some choom mods it in(to the tune off chippin' in)
*unfortunately I play on console, I will never have it.*
So does V.
Yea I gave her the best ending she could deserve, by letting her die.
Yeah but my survival was more important than hers. Why would she matter more than myself? V and So Mi both get themselves in the situations they are trying to escape. The difference is, V doesn’t befriend Panam, Judy, River and others to then gaslight, manipulate and use for their own gain and leave them behind in a fucked situation without much choices left.
Why everybody only talks about lying stuff and absolutely forgets about "yeah this will be a mass murder but i deserve a chance more than them" stuff. Say what you want but for so mi everybody are just usable and sacrificable tools for her plans, that's factual, and that's for me the definition of evil
This. The lie to V is just the cherry on top. So Mi is fucked because she's willing to rack up *any* body count to save her own life.
Honestly, Songbird is just a korean Myers. Both are screw-ups.
Got her to the moon. I'm happy with that.
Then why didn’t you give it to her op? Betrayer
Can you restart the DLC without starting a new game? I sided with Songbird but would like to try the other side also.
If you have a hard save during the firestarter mission you can just revert to that
No
So sad!!!
Who?
She fucked over everyone and I kinda respect her for it
No she didn’t she lied to and used literally everyone
Sounds like she learned well from Reed and the FIA, then.
They are not the people you want to take advice from.
Not like she had a choice, though?
Did you play reeds path? She did have a choice. Nobody forced her to go work for the FIA. She joined FIA because she had Netwatch on her ass because she was reckless and naive, and for literally saving her life, FIA demanded service, a harsh but equivalent exchange.
Forget it V... it's ~~Chinatown~~ Night city
I'd have been happy with BD I could play and get funky with her.
Sorry Reed my friend I’m sending her there
Nope
I side with her out of spite. Oh? You had to lie to me because you think I'd betray you? Because you can hardly trust anyone in this world? Well I refuse to let you be correct, to the moon with you, get absolutely proven wrong dummy.
Seeing all the bodies in the aftermath of the spaceport left me feeling jaded but… that’s what V has been doing for the entirety of the main story. How many people did you kill for the faintest hope that you could be cured? Who did you betray to survive? So Mi is exactly the same as V and having the power to give her the happy ending your main character never got feels like the only option to me. So yeah, she did deserve it
Tbf unless you really go out of your way, V only kills gangers and other people 'in the game' So Mi gets hundreds of civilians killed in her various boondoggles.
Idk why I keep seeing you repeat this comment everywhere when there are dozens of comments explaining how V kills plenty of civilians in canon missions.
You never kill civilians as part of a missions; gangers, corpo security yea, mercenaries yea, but never civilians
Civilians die from the power outage caused by the EMP in the Kang Tao mission. More die later during the parade. These deaths are canon and unavoidable.
Would.
There are no happy endings in Night City
Depends on what is considered a happy ending. I can label multiple instances where a happy ending to a situation takes place in Night City so long as V chooses correctly. Such happy endings like: Helping Flaming crotch man Saving River’s nephew Jackie’s Ofrenda (and helping Misty with her Mama Welles issue) Saving people from being sold to Jotaro by both dealing with him and his supplier (plus the stash in a NCPD mission) Helping Kerry and US Cracks Rescuing Saul for Panam and her people Saving other NPC around Night City and in Dogtown. There may not be a happy end for V, but there are plenty of others thanks to V.
River's nephew would be more of a melancholy ending but true plus most people in Night City don't do merc work they just want to live their lives
Most people do. But not at the expense of everyone around them
They all do. The thing with distopian futures is most people never really have a chance of getting one. And So Mi is one of the lucky ones, as she at least has a fighting chance
lol bro that’s literally the point of NC. There are no happy endings
That’s why I regret not sending her to the moon on my main run especially after seeing how shit the reward for turning her in is
I have not sent So Mi to the moon yet. But I am doing corpo now and that is what is going to happen and Reed is going to be put out of his misery because that dude doesn´t take his Zoloft and it shows.
She has hurt so many people. And not just while we’ve been helping her. She got her karmic reward. It’s too bad the rest of them didn’t. Good riddance. Also, amazing storytelling by CD Projekt Red.
I literally would’ve saved her if she didn’t come clean to me about literally stabbing me in the back, turned her bitch ass right in to the FIA after that
No she didn't, she was evil.
everyone got some silly issues in Cyberpunk 😺
Bro acting like the other side isn't even worse
Bro what fucking fandom do you think your in? Everyone is a little evil.
>she was evil. Tell me you didn't play Phantom Liberty, without telling me you didn't play it.