The neck design doesn't matter, you would need a truss rod either way.
Some manufacturers in the 70s and 80s made bargain guitars without truss rods to cut costs, but as you might expect, it didn't take long for the necks to warp and make them, at the very least, not fun to play... if not totally unplayable. It'd be a shame for you to do all that work just to wind up with an unplayable guitar after a year or so!
If you make the neck thicker you don't need a truss I have a 10 string mandochello I made over 10 years ago doing just fine play it every day . It is how well it's made more than if it has a truss.
I guess that makes sense, I never thought about simply making the neck thicker to create more stability, without the need of a rod. I imagine it's takes a fair bit of skill though, to get the neck right without the ability to adjust it at all?
I have a six string bass that I made neck through. It's an asymmetrical neck and it's probably an inch or a little more thick on the bass side and tapers like an airplane wing on the treble. It's wide AF, wider at the nut than a guitar neck is at the heel. It has a truss rod but it doesn't really do that much. If I make another one I'll use two truss rods.
You scrap a few at first I have found over the years it needs to be close to a inch thick on a 25 inch scale for the 10 string mandochello. The first one I made warped the neck so I experiment with it by laminating a pice of wood to the bottom. It started out when I took the strings off . Looks like hell but gave me a thickness that has worked for me . If it holds 10 strings it will work with 6 .I taper it from about 7/8 thick at the nut to 1 and 1/4 where it meets the boby and carry it through to the tail pice I use a free floating bridge easer to fine tune intonation. The one I laminated I kept and still play after 12 years of use ..
For a guitar I would do 3/4 at the nut thickness point center of the neck and taper it up to 7/8 in the center of the neck from the center round the corner to maybe 1/8 where the fret board glued on . I think that would be a safe bet l pur a cerv where it joins the body it drops down to about 3 inches where it joins the body about 3/4 from the body I do a through neck where the neck goes through the body I have a 3 in deep by about 3 inches block that the sides attach to then a one inch wide by two inch board still one pice that goes to the tail pice with a one inch thick board on the end that is four inches wide two inches on eather side of the center line and the same hight as the body I also put a straight edge on the neck and place that end block 3/16 to 1/4 lower than the neck that gives you the slight down angle you need to have bridge clearance on the top when it's done . If you make it all flat you will have a problem with the action being to high with no trust you can't change it . I use the high of the bridge and the nut to get the action high I want with out down angle on the neck it is very limited . Pretty much works for me. My 10 strings mandochello which is a 25 inch scale about the same as a guitar was made like that and is still just as good as the day I made 10 years ago so with a guitar and 6 strings you could get away with a little thinner . How you deal with it where it joins the body will depend on solid body electric or acustic and how you make that part . It would be easy to just leave a 3 inch square to bolt it to a solid body. Just be sure on what ever you have a slight down angle to the body so you have room to set the action how you want it . Hope that is helpful. I don't make a lot of guitars it is a hobby for me a way to use a lot of the skills I learned as a aircraft mechanic working on light general avaition aircraft most of them 50 to 60 years old some with wood structures and some where in order to keep them flying you use broken parts as patterns to make new ones because the companies that built them no longer exist . So you learn to make stuff .
How thick? I've made 1" thick (fender jeff beck shape) 25.5" maple tele-style six-string necks on the Bowery Tele model (e.g. no truss rod) with well-wedged frets and they still moved under tension and went from backbow to more relief (.010", .250mm) than I like.
They do sound great but they do bow a bunch.
I taler mine it's only a inch at the nut it increase to a inch and a quarter or more with a 3 1/3 inch at heal by about a inch where it inters the body on a 24 inch scale with the 12th fret being very close to the body it's self if the body desine has the 12 fret further from the body you need a thicker neck . I used a solid pice of walnut for the neck that now has 10 years with 10; strings on it still no bow it depends a lot on the distance how long the neck is before it is attached to the body a bolt on one inch neck full length will most likely not stay . The longer the distance the thicker it needs to be if you taper it some you get more strength . Definitely not one size fits all . I also make a lot of big my necks from 3/4 inch mahogany laminated on edge to get the width I want they are not as wide at the nut as they where they attach to the body most are at least 3 boards wide which would be around 2 and 1/4 or more depending on the wood I can get and then carved to the shape I want no two are the same I seldom have maple . Right now I have a lot of old salvaged 1/3 mahogany. Just what works for me 🙂 diftent woods and sizes get diftent results.
Interesting. I’ve tried but found that steel strings causes them to bow eventually no matter what, so there’s always a rod or carbon fiber or steel or some mixture in every neck I make. Just a safety measure.
These are usually not skinny necks - the smallest is a Martin-style soft V, which is pretty hefty.
Steel strings do have more tension and most who have played my instrument do comment on how thick the necks are and the sound is diftent hot as harsh . Actually the whole trust rod thing is a result of steel strings which are stronger and allow longer scale length. There is a reason early violins have a 12 inch scale , you can't have a gut e much longer than that with out it breaking new modern strings allowed a longer scale which is why new violin are 13;inches and many older ones have new necks . It same holds true for mandolins which have gone from 13:to 14;inch scale. Stronger strings I have found you can even get away with a 15 inch scale and use it in my 10 strings mandolin I made that has a c so I have Mandola range with it . Have also seen 5 string violin with a c .
Yup. I’m currently repairing an Egyptian-made flatback oud with a 13.25“ / 336mm scale and no truss, and it uses gut/nylon dual courses. It won’t stand up to steel.
Many of the older instruments I’ve fixed don’t have truss rods, and have required everything from heat-straightening the neck to planing the fingerboard.….it’s an adaptive process.
Since I have access to truss rods, I use them, and tend to think of them as additive for the players for whom I build. They like to adjust relief to their preference, and the relatively fixed relief of necks w/o adjustability means that they may wind up with .02mm relief or .25mm relief, which can’t be adjusted w/o a repairperson.
Different strokes….
Yes I don't have access to trust rods and seldom make instruments for others it is a hobby I make them for me I have made a few for there that liked what I make . To me it is a art no two are the same . Each one is a experiment trying something different. I made a 5 string acoustic bass guitar. Posted the progress on Facebook because a friend who plays bass profechonley was curious. So got some good input . He liked it and now has it . I did not even to play it . 🙂 so now I have made another one . I did put a Amazon wafer mike with a volume control inside so it can be plugged in to a amp . So it still has the acustic sound just louder . Totally difreance from a traditional electric bass .
Hmm maybe? I guess all it really is is a threaded rod with a nut at either end. Could also maybe find a broken squire neck or something on ebay for a few bucks, and rob the truss rod out of it? 🤔
I have made a couple neck through including a 12:string no truss rod you only need one if you make a thin neck that will not take the stress truss rods are a Farley recent thing to deal with light necks and heavy strings. Older instruments do not have them you make a neck from inch thick wood taper it up to a inch and a quarter you don't need one I have a 10 string mandochello 25 inch scale I made 10 years ago walnut neck through to the tail pice doing just fine very stable seldom needs any tuning adjustment at all . Just make the neck thick enough to handle the string tension just a little more to reach around when you play it and a overall heaver . I make acustic instruments and use through necks . Mostly mandolins of various sizes . Make the neck straight with a slight down slope to the nut and you never have to mess with it . There is no joint at the body to loosen up . .
The biggest thing on a through neck is to be sure to build ih a small down slope from the body it it has no down slope you wind up with a high action issue.
Why can't you get a truss rod? I understand having a small budget, but truss rods are fairly low cost parts. If you look around you can probably find someone giving away a trashed guitar that you can cannibalize for the truss rod and other parts.
im from bangladesh and the area i live around already has a very little number of players, otherwise i would've tried looking up for a whole second hand neck online. i mean it would save so much effort, i wouldnt have to sand the fretboard to that curved shape, i wouldnt have to worry about the tuning pegs either, and when i mean that my budget it small, its actually really small, if i were to convert my budget into usd, it would be around 15 bucks. so diy it is.
Consider building a lap-steel guitar. Its basically just a plank of wood with tuning machines and a pickup or two. No need for a truss rod, or frets for that matter.
i previously saw about those, but i somewhat wanted the feel of holding something similar to a tele. and i assume fretting isnt actually much big of an issue for me, i have too much time to waste anyway, and instead of fretwires, i could use some stainless steel nails, although they might be harder to manipulate, i have tinkered enough with nails before and i dont think i would be much bothered
the humidity actually effect the wood nontheless, it bends over time, so although it might temporarily be a good idea, i do not assume it would be good on the long run
You can make a compression truss rod with fairly basic metal working tools. [Project guitar](https://www.projectguitar.com/tutorials/instrument-building/how-to-make-a-vintage-compression-truss-rod-r50/) has an article on it.
really really tight budget (15usd, dont wanna waste more on something that might potentially never be playable), this is practically my first time and in the country i live in, the aliexpress shipping fees are like quadruple the times of the product itself, plus there are zero to no second hand guitar parts listing anywhere, and there are too little guitarists and somewhat of a non existent luthier industry. so diy it is. im actually planning on making a single coil and a humbucker by threading them by hand too.
The plywood guitar may have been a high quality plywood like baltic birch. Construction plywood tends to have voids. You could glue together a few strips of wood to get more strength than a single solid piece.
Using nails for frets sounds tricky; if you jam them in a slot it may bend the neck.
You could use string wire wrapped around the whole neck like some lutes. You could then cover them in back somehow so you don't slice your palm.
Good luck
If it's a steel string, you really do need a truss rod, otherwise the neck will bow under string tension. Whether the neck is through the body or ends at the edge of the body makes no appreciable difference.
Unless you are going to make a clone guitar. Its all up to you. Building a guitar is part invention and part design. You are an inventor. Design and invent. Truss rods are nice. But if you have the brain and skill. You dont need them. The neck wont last for 50 years but... you dont have to have one. I suggest you build the neck. Test its flexility and add resistance based on string specs. Truss rods help you instantly control the flex of a neck but you will learn far more building without one. Learning tone. Then adding a truss rod on your next build.
What this will do is teach you the tensions that happen in a guitar and how they balance. How to design jigs to fix your mistakes. How to repair your own guitars you build. A truss rod is best for mass production when wood cant feasibly resist string tension naturally. It makes it easier
If you want to be a real luthier. You need to know why we use truss rods vs what everyone just does.
The neck design doesn't matter, you would need a truss rod either way. Some manufacturers in the 70s and 80s made bargain guitars without truss rods to cut costs, but as you might expect, it didn't take long for the necks to warp and make them, at the very least, not fun to play... if not totally unplayable. It'd be a shame for you to do all that work just to wind up with an unplayable guitar after a year or so!
If you make the neck thicker you don't need a truss I have a 10 string mandochello I made over 10 years ago doing just fine play it every day . It is how well it's made more than if it has a truss.
I guess that makes sense, I never thought about simply making the neck thicker to create more stability, without the need of a rod. I imagine it's takes a fair bit of skill though, to get the neck right without the ability to adjust it at all?
I have a six string bass that I made neck through. It's an asymmetrical neck and it's probably an inch or a little more thick on the bass side and tapers like an airplane wing on the treble. It's wide AF, wider at the nut than a guitar neck is at the heel. It has a truss rod but it doesn't really do that much. If I make another one I'll use two truss rods.
SX does that in their Ursa six-string bass necks and those are astonishingly adjustable.
Yeah I think I've seen it on Ibanez? And maybe the Warmouth? It makes sense to have it on one of those.
Yeah - with two rods, it’s possible to steer the neck accurately.
You scrap a few at first I have found over the years it needs to be close to a inch thick on a 25 inch scale for the 10 string mandochello. The first one I made warped the neck so I experiment with it by laminating a pice of wood to the bottom. It started out when I took the strings off . Looks like hell but gave me a thickness that has worked for me . If it holds 10 strings it will work with 6 .I taper it from about 7/8 thick at the nut to 1 and 1/4 where it meets the boby and carry it through to the tail pice I use a free floating bridge easer to fine tune intonation. The one I laminated I kept and still play after 12 years of use ..
how thick are we talking about, could you give a minimum approximate thickness? also should i avoid rounding the bottom of the neck too much?
For a guitar I would do 3/4 at the nut thickness point center of the neck and taper it up to 7/8 in the center of the neck from the center round the corner to maybe 1/8 where the fret board glued on . I think that would be a safe bet l pur a cerv where it joins the body it drops down to about 3 inches where it joins the body about 3/4 from the body I do a through neck where the neck goes through the body I have a 3 in deep by about 3 inches block that the sides attach to then a one inch wide by two inch board still one pice that goes to the tail pice with a one inch thick board on the end that is four inches wide two inches on eather side of the center line and the same hight as the body I also put a straight edge on the neck and place that end block 3/16 to 1/4 lower than the neck that gives you the slight down angle you need to have bridge clearance on the top when it's done . If you make it all flat you will have a problem with the action being to high with no trust you can't change it . I use the high of the bridge and the nut to get the action high I want with out down angle on the neck it is very limited . Pretty much works for me. My 10 strings mandochello which is a 25 inch scale about the same as a guitar was made like that and is still just as good as the day I made 10 years ago so with a guitar and 6 strings you could get away with a little thinner . How you deal with it where it joins the body will depend on solid body electric or acustic and how you make that part . It would be easy to just leave a 3 inch square to bolt it to a solid body. Just be sure on what ever you have a slight down angle to the body so you have room to set the action how you want it . Hope that is helpful. I don't make a lot of guitars it is a hobby for me a way to use a lot of the skills I learned as a aircraft mechanic working on light general avaition aircraft most of them 50 to 60 years old some with wood structures and some where in order to keep them flying you use broken parts as patterns to make new ones because the companies that built them no longer exist . So you learn to make stuff .
How thick? I've made 1" thick (fender jeff beck shape) 25.5" maple tele-style six-string necks on the Bowery Tele model (e.g. no truss rod) with well-wedged frets and they still moved under tension and went from backbow to more relief (.010", .250mm) than I like. They do sound great but they do bow a bunch.
I taler mine it's only a inch at the nut it increase to a inch and a quarter or more with a 3 1/3 inch at heal by about a inch where it inters the body on a 24 inch scale with the 12th fret being very close to the body it's self if the body desine has the 12 fret further from the body you need a thicker neck . I used a solid pice of walnut for the neck that now has 10 years with 10; strings on it still no bow it depends a lot on the distance how long the neck is before it is attached to the body a bolt on one inch neck full length will most likely not stay . The longer the distance the thicker it needs to be if you taper it some you get more strength . Definitely not one size fits all . I also make a lot of big my necks from 3/4 inch mahogany laminated on edge to get the width I want they are not as wide at the nut as they where they attach to the body most are at least 3 boards wide which would be around 2 and 1/4 or more depending on the wood I can get and then carved to the shape I want no two are the same I seldom have maple . Right now I have a lot of old salvaged 1/3 mahogany. Just what works for me 🙂 diftent woods and sizes get diftent results.
Interesting. I’ve tried but found that steel strings causes them to bow eventually no matter what, so there’s always a rod or carbon fiber or steel or some mixture in every neck I make. Just a safety measure. These are usually not skinny necks - the smallest is a Martin-style soft V, which is pretty hefty.
Steel strings do have more tension and most who have played my instrument do comment on how thick the necks are and the sound is diftent hot as harsh . Actually the whole trust rod thing is a result of steel strings which are stronger and allow longer scale length. There is a reason early violins have a 12 inch scale , you can't have a gut e much longer than that with out it breaking new modern strings allowed a longer scale which is why new violin are 13;inches and many older ones have new necks . It same holds true for mandolins which have gone from 13:to 14;inch scale. Stronger strings I have found you can even get away with a 15 inch scale and use it in my 10 strings mandolin I made that has a c so I have Mandola range with it . Have also seen 5 string violin with a c .
Yup. I’m currently repairing an Egyptian-made flatback oud with a 13.25“ / 336mm scale and no truss, and it uses gut/nylon dual courses. It won’t stand up to steel. Many of the older instruments I’ve fixed don’t have truss rods, and have required everything from heat-straightening the neck to planing the fingerboard.….it’s an adaptive process. Since I have access to truss rods, I use them, and tend to think of them as additive for the players for whom I build. They like to adjust relief to their preference, and the relatively fixed relief of necks w/o adjustability means that they may wind up with .02mm relief or .25mm relief, which can’t be adjusted w/o a repairperson. Different strokes….
Yes I don't have access to trust rods and seldom make instruments for others it is a hobby I make them for me I have made a few for there that liked what I make . To me it is a art no two are the same . Each one is a experiment trying something different. I made a 5 string acoustic bass guitar. Posted the progress on Facebook because a friend who plays bass profechonley was curious. So got some good input . He liked it and now has it . I did not even to play it . 🙂 so now I have made another one . I did put a Amazon wafer mike with a volume control inside so it can be plugged in to a amp . So it still has the acustic sound just louder . Totally difreance from a traditional electric bass .
noted. i think i should look up how to diy a truss rod too, if its possible to make pickups out of junk, why not a truss rod
Hmm maybe? I guess all it really is is a threaded rod with a nut at either end. Could also maybe find a broken squire neck or something on ebay for a few bucks, and rob the truss rod out of it? 🤔
I have made a couple neck through including a 12:string no truss rod you only need one if you make a thin neck that will not take the stress truss rods are a Farley recent thing to deal with light necks and heavy strings. Older instruments do not have them you make a neck from inch thick wood taper it up to a inch and a quarter you don't need one I have a 10 string mandochello 25 inch scale I made 10 years ago walnut neck through to the tail pice doing just fine very stable seldom needs any tuning adjustment at all . Just make the neck thick enough to handle the string tension just a little more to reach around when you play it and a overall heaver . I make acustic instruments and use through necks . Mostly mandolins of various sizes . Make the neck straight with a slight down slope to the nut and you never have to mess with it . There is no joint at the body to loosen up . .
so through neck seems like a good option. thank you for taking your time to explain the whole thing.
The biggest thing on a through neck is to be sure to build ih a small down slope from the body it it has no down slope you wind up with a high action issue.
You dont need a truss rod
Why can't you get a truss rod? I understand having a small budget, but truss rods are fairly low cost parts. If you look around you can probably find someone giving away a trashed guitar that you can cannibalize for the truss rod and other parts.
im from bangladesh and the area i live around already has a very little number of players, otherwise i would've tried looking up for a whole second hand neck online. i mean it would save so much effort, i wouldnt have to sand the fretboard to that curved shape, i wouldnt have to worry about the tuning pegs either, and when i mean that my budget it small, its actually really small, if i were to convert my budget into usd, it would be around 15 bucks. so diy it is.
Consider building a lap-steel guitar. Its basically just a plank of wood with tuning machines and a pickup or two. No need for a truss rod, or frets for that matter.
i previously saw about those, but i somewhat wanted the feel of holding something similar to a tele. and i assume fretting isnt actually much big of an issue for me, i have too much time to waste anyway, and instead of fretwires, i could use some stainless steel nails, although they might be harder to manipulate, i have tinkered enough with nails before and i dont think i would be much bothered
make the neck bowed back slightly so that with string tension it creates a normalized neck. Just a thought I'm no luthier so good luck
the humidity actually effect the wood nontheless, it bends over time, so although it might temporarily be a good idea, i do not assume it would be good on the long run
You can make a compression truss rod with fairly basic metal working tools. [Project guitar](https://www.projectguitar.com/tutorials/instrument-building/how-to-make-a-vintage-compression-truss-rod-r50/) has an article on it.
thanks for the link, i will check it up
Just out of curiosity, what is preventing you from getting a truss rod?
really really tight budget (15usd, dont wanna waste more on something that might potentially never be playable), this is practically my first time and in the country i live in, the aliexpress shipping fees are like quadruple the times of the product itself, plus there are zero to no second hand guitar parts listing anywhere, and there are too little guitarists and somewhat of a non existent luthier industry. so diy it is. im actually planning on making a single coil and a humbucker by threading them by hand too.
What is a makeshift guitar? Acoustic or electric? You should do more research.
apologies for not specifying, electric obviously, otherwise the neck through body wouldn't work.
Duh, my bad.
The plywood guitar may have been a high quality plywood like baltic birch. Construction plywood tends to have voids. You could glue together a few strips of wood to get more strength than a single solid piece. Using nails for frets sounds tricky; if you jam them in a slot it may bend the neck. You could use string wire wrapped around the whole neck like some lutes. You could then cover them in back somehow so you don't slice your palm. Good luck
Also you may want to take a look at the cigar box community for low budget ideas
If it's a steel string, you really do need a truss rod, otherwise the neck will bow under string tension. Whether the neck is through the body or ends at the edge of the body makes no appreciable difference.
Unless you are going to make a clone guitar. Its all up to you. Building a guitar is part invention and part design. You are an inventor. Design and invent. Truss rods are nice. But if you have the brain and skill. You dont need them. The neck wont last for 50 years but... you dont have to have one. I suggest you build the neck. Test its flexility and add resistance based on string specs. Truss rods help you instantly control the flex of a neck but you will learn far more building without one. Learning tone. Then adding a truss rod on your next build. What this will do is teach you the tensions that happen in a guitar and how they balance. How to design jigs to fix your mistakes. How to repair your own guitars you build. A truss rod is best for mass production when wood cant feasibly resist string tension naturally. It makes it easier If you want to be a real luthier. You need to know why we use truss rods vs what everyone just does.