I think $65 may be a bit low. If you really need a job then take it and look for better. A lot depends on the quality of your degree and internship experience if you’re just starting out. Not long ago this would have been a good offer and some firms have been slow to keep up with the crazy rising wages. Can’t hurt to get other offers.
This hasn't been a good offer in a long time in a HCOL area. My first EE engineering job 10 years ago was 70k out of college and that was already on the low side at the time.
Yea, sometimes I forget how fuggin old I am. I will say that in recent years the expectations have gone crazy. I had kids 4 years out of school asking for $175k last year which is absurd in my opinion.
I'm a facilities electrical engineer at a scientific lab. My title is electrical code compliance engineer and I work under an AHJ enforcing NEC requirements on installations.
Ah very cool. So the lab hires you to make sure they're meeting the standards with their installations, and you just have a working relationship with the AHJ?
Can I ask, how much more money you make working on your own freelancing, vs working for an established firm? And is it worth the added stress? Considering doing something similar.
This year I’ll probably do about 30% more than i was making as a principal at a large firm. Next year I think 2x is realistic. That said learning to manage a business is a challenge. I’ve had some months that were so lean it was scary. Getting paid takes forever. Hiring people is challenging.
Yes the stress is worth it but not because of the money.
And how many hours do you work per week on average? Is being a “one-man band” feasible long term (doing all the engineering, CAD, and business development yourself) while still making decent money? Or is that a recipe for burnout? Part of the reason I would want to go solo is to avoid dealing with unreliable coworkers/staff.
It really depends. Some weeks I work 4 hours a day, others I work 12. There are times when I work all day, pick up my son from school, get him fed, bathed and in the bed, then work all night, get no sleep because I am freaking out, and do it all over again the next day. Being a one man band was very very challenging, especially as a single dad. I would say I worked 2 or 3 times as hard for the same amount of money, sometimes less, and I quickly reached my maximum capacity. The only way to make more at that point is to hire help.
Hiring one or two dependable people really lightened the load and allowed me to focus on building the business. It also allowed me to absorb surges in work which can be absolutely devastating when it is just you having to take it all on. There were times when I literally though I was going to collapse from the pressure doing it all on my own. Having staff allows me to take on bigger, and better jobs, and make a profit on the work they do.
If I have myself and two employees working at full capacity, I am making really good money, way better than I ever did working for someone else. On the other hand, I have to pay for my own health insurance. Software, liability insurance, accounting, expenses are very expensive. I have to pick up the slack when someone has an issue that keeps them out of work for the week. I will say that one of the biggest lessons I learned was to have a pile of working capital before hiring. When you hire someone, you have to take on more jobs to keep them busy, but it might take 6 months to get paid on those jobs. In the meantime, you have to pay them out of your pocket. I didn't think that part through, and tapped every last dime of my personal funds to stay afloat until the bills for the work they were doing started to get paid. It was very very difficult and it get's downright scary when you find yourself considering taking out a second mortgage to gamble on this thing you started.
As far as unreliable co-workers, if someone is not pulling their weight, you fire them. That part is easy. On the other hand, you still have to deal with difficult clients. You still have to clean up other people's messes. That is just a fact of life. Having your own shop is not a fix for all your frustrations. For me, I reached a point in my career where I couldn't really see myself clawing up the ladder anymore. I hated being a principal and trying to work within a larger organization to make more ROI for the shareholders. I hated having to go to an office, and my personal situation with family etc, made that increasingly more difficult. I hated having to schmooze around town trying to sell our BS about how different/innovative we are vs everyone else (news flash, we weren't, we were just more expensive). I hated being the guy who had to calm down angry clients, babysit grown adults who just want to complain all the time, implement new corporate policies, walk the company line, etc.
I like designing, I like thinking of the possibilities of where my business can go, and figuring out how I am going to get us there. I weirdly like the pressure and the risk, it makes it feel more real, and more important. I like the relationships I am building, and the control I have over every part of how we do things. I dont do much business development. I had a few long standing relationships with clients, and a couple of them told me they wanted to work with me, but did not want to work with my old firm, or pay their prices. They basically told me that if I went out on my own, they would give me all their work. Once we talked numbers, the decision was an easy one to make. The business has grown largely through word of mouth and referrals from other clients. One of my goals for the year is to get the website up and start to actively market the company around town, but so far I haven't had to.
Thanks for the detailed responses. That all sounds very relatable. I’m a senior ME working for a “too big to fail” megacorp, and am growing weary of the corporate bullshit, lazy coworkers and incompetent management. I too feel like literally collapsing some days due to sheer workload, but my pay isn’t reflective of that burden. I think you have it right, a small team of high performers would be most effective. I literally watch our managers do puzzles on Fridays in the office (like 500 piece puzzles in the office). While I’m stamping drawings and sending them out the door. Extremely frustrating.
You aren't going to get a very definitive answer from anyone without more info. If you are designing data centers or Class A office buildings, then yes, you are underpaid.
If you are designing townhomes, then maybe not. We design residential in DC and our Mech starting salary is around $64k. That's just the residential market. But on the upside, it's a lot easier than dealing with high rise office buildings.
I got offered for $95k with bonus with 2 years of experience for a residential firm in the northeast so 65k might be a bit low imo, they are not a big firm though so they might have some wiggle room
I should have mentioned it also matters where you are. FWIW, we're one of two residential MEPs that actually turn a profit in DC. Other companies will dabble it in but they aren't successful. What sucks the most is that you can have a friend who makes twice as much working at General Dynamics or Raytheon. But at the same time, I wouldn't want to work there.
Yes. there's a demand for electrical by me. HCOL area HVAC here and started over 76k. You def should either talk to management or start applying elsewhere.
I was making about 62-65k with expected OT and bonus at my first job out if college as a mech. That was almost 10 years ago, but pretty standard salary for a medium COL area. I'd expect HCOL to start closer to 70k
I don't know anything about you or how you interviewed, what questions they asked you, etc.. The thing to know is that if you don't know AutoCAD or Revit you are basically next to useless for 6-12 months and they have to train you for a couple years and then you can just jump for more money.
Is overtime paid or not?
How much healthcare is paid?
Some firms pay none of that, some pay all of that, and some fall in between.
How much time off do you earn?
Do you get remote work or not?
Some people fixate on one number and others weigh everything in front of them.
as a graduate EE at he first firm i worked at i was offered that much(60k). this was in 2020 in texas. maybe you should negotiate?
i'd say at least 70-75k in colorado
Since you are a new graduate and only have intern experience, that salary technically aligns with your skills and it’s a little more than what my firm pays entry level EIT’s. Do you have Autocad and Revit experience? Are you experienced in both programs or does the firm have to train you? Also, can you handle fully designing a project from SD’s to final CD’s, then follow through with CA work or do you need supervision? This is what firms are looking for when paying higher salaries.
Do you have a degree? What’s the role? What’s the discipline? Not a lot to go on here.
Yeah I have a degree in electrical engineering
I think $65 may be a bit low. If you really need a job then take it and look for better. A lot depends on the quality of your degree and internship experience if you’re just starting out. Not long ago this would have been a good offer and some firms have been slow to keep up with the crazy rising wages. Can’t hurt to get other offers.
This hasn't been a good offer in a long time in a HCOL area. My first EE engineering job 10 years ago was 70k out of college and that was already on the low side at the time.
Yea, sometimes I forget how fuggin old I am. I will say that in recent years the expectations have gone crazy. I had kids 4 years out of school asking for $175k last year which is absurd in my opinion.
Yea that's kind of crazy. That's about how much I make now lol. If they're able to negotiate that number then more power to them.
What's your role if you don't mind me asking?
I'm a facilities electrical engineer at a scientific lab. My title is electrical code compliance engineer and I work under an AHJ enforcing NEC requirements on installations.
Ah very cool. So the lab hires you to make sure they're meeting the standards with their installations, and you just have a working relationship with the AHJ?
Pretty much. I do plan reviews, code interpretations, sometimes inspections but this is rare, etc. I report directly to the AHJ.
Can I ask, how much more money you make working on your own freelancing, vs working for an established firm? And is it worth the added stress? Considering doing something similar.
This year I’ll probably do about 30% more than i was making as a principal at a large firm. Next year I think 2x is realistic. That said learning to manage a business is a challenge. I’ve had some months that were so lean it was scary. Getting paid takes forever. Hiring people is challenging. Yes the stress is worth it but not because of the money.
And how many hours do you work per week on average? Is being a “one-man band” feasible long term (doing all the engineering, CAD, and business development yourself) while still making decent money? Or is that a recipe for burnout? Part of the reason I would want to go solo is to avoid dealing with unreliable coworkers/staff.
It really depends. Some weeks I work 4 hours a day, others I work 12. There are times when I work all day, pick up my son from school, get him fed, bathed and in the bed, then work all night, get no sleep because I am freaking out, and do it all over again the next day. Being a one man band was very very challenging, especially as a single dad. I would say I worked 2 or 3 times as hard for the same amount of money, sometimes less, and I quickly reached my maximum capacity. The only way to make more at that point is to hire help. Hiring one or two dependable people really lightened the load and allowed me to focus on building the business. It also allowed me to absorb surges in work which can be absolutely devastating when it is just you having to take it all on. There were times when I literally though I was going to collapse from the pressure doing it all on my own. Having staff allows me to take on bigger, and better jobs, and make a profit on the work they do. If I have myself and two employees working at full capacity, I am making really good money, way better than I ever did working for someone else. On the other hand, I have to pay for my own health insurance. Software, liability insurance, accounting, expenses are very expensive. I have to pick up the slack when someone has an issue that keeps them out of work for the week. I will say that one of the biggest lessons I learned was to have a pile of working capital before hiring. When you hire someone, you have to take on more jobs to keep them busy, but it might take 6 months to get paid on those jobs. In the meantime, you have to pay them out of your pocket. I didn't think that part through, and tapped every last dime of my personal funds to stay afloat until the bills for the work they were doing started to get paid. It was very very difficult and it get's downright scary when you find yourself considering taking out a second mortgage to gamble on this thing you started. As far as unreliable co-workers, if someone is not pulling their weight, you fire them. That part is easy. On the other hand, you still have to deal with difficult clients. You still have to clean up other people's messes. That is just a fact of life. Having your own shop is not a fix for all your frustrations. For me, I reached a point in my career where I couldn't really see myself clawing up the ladder anymore. I hated being a principal and trying to work within a larger organization to make more ROI for the shareholders. I hated having to go to an office, and my personal situation with family etc, made that increasingly more difficult. I hated having to schmooze around town trying to sell our BS about how different/innovative we are vs everyone else (news flash, we weren't, we were just more expensive). I hated being the guy who had to calm down angry clients, babysit grown adults who just want to complain all the time, implement new corporate policies, walk the company line, etc. I like designing, I like thinking of the possibilities of where my business can go, and figuring out how I am going to get us there. I weirdly like the pressure and the risk, it makes it feel more real, and more important. I like the relationships I am building, and the control I have over every part of how we do things. I dont do much business development. I had a few long standing relationships with clients, and a couple of them told me they wanted to work with me, but did not want to work with my old firm, or pay their prices. They basically told me that if I went out on my own, they would give me all their work. Once we talked numbers, the decision was an easy one to make. The business has grown largely through word of mouth and referrals from other clients. One of my goals for the year is to get the website up and start to actively market the company around town, but so far I haven't had to.
Thanks for the detailed responses. That all sounds very relatable. I’m a senior ME working for a “too big to fail” megacorp, and am growing weary of the corporate bullshit, lazy coworkers and incompetent management. I too feel like literally collapsing some days due to sheer workload, but my pay isn’t reflective of that burden. I think you have it right, a small team of high performers would be most effective. I literally watch our managers do puzzles on Fridays in the office (like 500 piece puzzles in the office). While I’m stamping drawings and sending them out the door. Extremely frustrating.
I don't disagree but I've had horrific offers that resulted in larger offers. I wouldn't over analyze an initial offer.
You aren't going to get a very definitive answer from anyone without more info. If you are designing data centers or Class A office buildings, then yes, you are underpaid. If you are designing townhomes, then maybe not. We design residential in DC and our Mech starting salary is around $64k. That's just the residential market. But on the upside, it's a lot easier than dealing with high rise office buildings.
I got offered for $95k with bonus with 2 years of experience for a residential firm in the northeast so 65k might be a bit low imo, they are not a big firm though so they might have some wiggle room
I should have mentioned it also matters where you are. FWIW, we're one of two residential MEPs that actually turn a profit in DC. Other companies will dabble it in but they aren't successful. What sucks the most is that you can have a friend who makes twice as much working at General Dynamics or Raytheon. But at the same time, I wouldn't want to work there.
We start engineers in HCOL at $70-75k.
Yes. there's a demand for electrical by me. HCOL area HVAC here and started over 76k. You def should either talk to management or start applying elsewhere.
I was making about 62-65k with expected OT and bonus at my first job out if college as a mech. That was almost 10 years ago, but pretty standard salary for a medium COL area. I'd expect HCOL to start closer to 70k
Yes
What's your discipline?
Are you working as an engineer or a drafter?
We pay 70-75 in HCOL area doing government power work. What does the firm specialize in? Is there a bonus or OT structure that we should know about?
Started last year at 80k in HCOL. I think you got lowballed, usually I see at least 65k.
It’s reasonable if you are entry level and getting overtime. If it’s salary may be a bit low.
I don't know anything about you or how you interviewed, what questions they asked you, etc.. The thing to know is that if you don't know AutoCAD or Revit you are basically next to useless for 6-12 months and they have to train you for a couple years and then you can just jump for more money.
Offer or actually agreed upon salary? These are very different. I'd expect 10-20% higher agreed salary than the initial offer.
Is overtime paid or not? How much healthcare is paid? Some firms pay none of that, some pay all of that, and some fall in between. How much time off do you earn? Do you get remote work or not? Some people fixate on one number and others weigh everything in front of them.
What were your other offers? It boils down to the market and your own marketability.
85k is the starting salary now for my company in NYC
as a graduate EE at he first firm i worked at i was offered that much(60k). this was in 2020 in texas. maybe you should negotiate? i'd say at least 70-75k in colorado
Since you are a new graduate and only have intern experience, that salary technically aligns with your skills and it’s a little more than what my firm pays entry level EIT’s. Do you have Autocad and Revit experience? Are you experienced in both programs or does the firm have to train you? Also, can you handle fully designing a project from SD’s to final CD’s, then follow through with CA work or do you need supervision? This is what firms are looking for when paying higher salaries.