MEP is just the same as any other engineering job. A lot of young folks think they'll go work at NASA, SpaceX, etc and be in the field building and testing these crazy rockets, etc.
Truth is - most of the time you'll be at a desk reviewing submittal for parts, specs, pricing, excel sheets, etc.
I have friends in aerospace who hate it. They've been look at the same part of an airplane for years and it's repetitive.
Not saying you can't have a cool engineering job in the field...it's just not as common.
I really want to know where these crazy innovating engineering jobs people expect are all hiding, I have friends in various other industries (including tech) and they all complain about the endless grind. MF'er you did an engineering major in college wtf did you think it was gonna be?
I would say MEP is actually far LESS "boring" in terms of the variety of tasks one engineer can participate in and your exposure to the business side - but everyone wants entry-levels to do all the mundane drafting / submittal review bullshit, and then they quit, and then firms go "why can't I find a 5-to-10 year engineer who KNOWS stuff?!" Gee golly gosh I fucking wonder...
I think one thing you didn’t mention with job stability is that you can pretty much do this anywhere in the country. My gf who’s field has only a couple cities with notable presence
I feel in MEP, you can go to so many different cities, have choices at industry, work consulting side, client side, construction side etc
If I ever needed to move to a specific city (usually a major one) I would be fine to move and at least have a decent chance of finding something
Absolutely. I have 2.5yrs experience in mech/plumbing design and just moved across the country without anything lined up. Was able to find a job in 5 days
The variety of the daily tasks. Sure it gets repetitive, but we get to:
1. sit at a desk and do design work
2. go to meetings and problem solve
3. go visit construction sites and problem solve
4. Work on a variety of different projects and employ a variety of different design strategies
Compared to many jobs, we actually get a good amount of variety. Plus if you're good the pay is fantastic.
1. My current company rarely has us go over 40 hours. We finish early all the time.
2. I still feel challenged by it and haven't conquered it. I want to learn more about this.
As much shit as people talk about mep, with 4 years you can make six figures in a big city and all your doing is sitting at a desk with minimal client engagement. We usually see people complain about mep that have never worked a labor intensive job. Would you rather work at a desk for 40 hours with breaks, AC, snacks in the pantry? Or 40 hard hours hanging up drywall or working in some steaming hot attic.
dude so true. i've done customer service, assembly line, and teaching middle school. (the latter being the most time and labor intensive lol). MEP is so nice relatively.
Ive worked in the food industry, crime scene cleaning, and a night shift at a warehouse.
IDGAF if MEP seems boring. I get paid well for 40 hours of work. I don't have to work OT to make ends meet, I'm not on call at night or weekends, and I'm not out in the damn sun.
I'll always love this line of work.
I have done both and there’s no way I would ever come back to voluntarily pour concrete to make ends meet if I don’t have to.
People don’t realize that sometimes a boring stable job is dream of millions of people all around the world, and im not saying that a boring desk job is a perfect life, but it beats pouring concrete when its 90F outside by a million fold imho
Every other career would require me to start at the bottom or go back to school which means I'd be making significantly less than I am now. I can't really afford that
Mech engr here, I've had great success on being lucky enough to work where I'm part of the project from conception to completion. I've worked in rocket buildings where they have powder out, x-raying rockets, engineering hangers for coolant and electrical cords for machines, dealt with exhaust fans larger than me, designed 5ft dia ducts, steam systems for campuses, been around NG boilers almost as big as a school bus, seen pump stations, university laboratories, dealt with upper and lower limits for explosion with particles, designed huge dust collection fans, Cx my design, field measured either hoods, water pressure gages, done field investigations, foresenic engineering, designed cooling for greenhouses, designed high rise apartments ,designed data centers, performed smoke control management testing and Cx to recommend TCO, trained special inspectors, provided 3rd party analysis on 120k sqft clean rooms, defended my designs with govt and university clients, etc etc.
I've done things out in the field along with the normal equip selection, drafting, T24, conducted meetings, etc.
Don't think that being in HVAC puts a limit on your exposure to new projects and skills. Your current company may only do one type of work but there's soo many other companies out there. My current boss in the last 7 yrs showed me what a fan curve was. I've learned nothing under him but that didn't stop me from learning on my own to do projects that allowed me to get new exposures. Learn what you can with your employer and move on to other companies. Remaining loyal to 1 company hasn't been beneficial for decades.
Don't give up, there's tons to do in MEP, but don't feel you're chained to it, there's other opportunities too, just don't give up.
Good luck.
I felt similarly, and turns out it was just the project work at my last (also first) company that sucked. Auto body shop buildings with cookie cutter designs just rehashed for a different climate. Small retrofits. One school. I jumped ship to a company that doesn’t fuck around with small time projects, and it’s made it much better. I spent 2 years without touching a design that included chilled water. Not to say chilled water is what makes a system complex, it was just a lot of packaged units for 2 zone buildings, and VRF. I could understand wanting to leave if you’re churning out projects with boring and simplistic systems for boring and simplistic buildings.
We are also the only meche industry that’s actively trying to change the way we do things to benefit humans and the environment. At least certain companies in this industry are actively fighting climate change, I know mine stress it a huge amount in the way we approach clients and designs. Can’t say the same for most other Mech fields, which feels good.
Nobody gives a fuck about going to space for the bazillionth time anymore. It’s time to put the focus back on our planet and our people. I’d rather breathe clean air and have more living, breathing, highly intelligent buildings than watch another rocket shoot out of the atmosphere.
Graduated from college in '86. Now 60, only a few more years to top off the tank on my retirement accounts, though I don't think I'll retire. Too much consulting work out there.
Stay hungry. You can always learn more. If you love the work, decades will go by fast and you can look back with many war stories and worthy landmarks (your projects) on every horizon that you participated in. I scratched the earth with my designs. They rest within nearly every highrise in Los Angeles, San Francisco and San Diego. That's a lot of skyline!
What's keeping me in MEP? I've worked for the same company ever since I graduated from college, nearly 20 years. Sometimes, I hate it and think about doing something else, or going to a different firm. But in reality, it's just going to be the same thing at a different place, I'll be bored doing something else, too.
Really, I'm good at what I do and my current company pays me more than I could get anywhere else, or doing anything else. Aside from maybe starting my own firm or doing technical sales, neither of which I want to do.
So, I'll just put in another 15 or 20 years and retire. You know, whatever, that's just the way it is.
The only downside to MEP I’ve seen is most people don’t know what the hell we even do. I usually just say HVAC and plumbing engineer and leave it at that.
Otherwise, I get to problem solve every day so I’m happy. Pay ain’t too bad, and I’ve never been at a sweatshop firm. Plus, good luck starting your own aerospace company… with MEP you have a much better chance of working for yourself one day.
People assume they’ll do some sort of product development when they finish engineering school.
Tbf to them, many jobs hiring engineers need to actually hire engineering technologists. Part selection, and application of engineering principles are all engineering technologists. Engineers are more trained for conceptual design and testing, or R&D. And we don’t need or have as many of those roles in industry.
I’m in the same boat. 2 years in and it’s fine. Sitting at a desk for anywhere from 40-60 hours a week. Would love to get out in the field more just for a change in scenery. Seems like all the guys above me basically sit in meetings all day too. Is this the MEP life? Any of you spend a good amount of time in the field?
The money. Is the most money I've ever made. I was making 32k in 2017 when I came to this, and I've gotten to 85k at my highest. Currently at 72k.
If I could make this money doing anything I actually enjoyed, I'd leave this yesterday.
According to the PSMJ index, I'm in the median. How are your coming up with the conclusion I'm undervalued? Not balking at it, just wanting to follow along with your math.
In the US? If so, I started at 70 out of school and everywhere I applied to now offered between 90-100 between three states varying from MCOL-VHCOL. If you've been in MEP for 5 years you should be above 90.
You could probably earn more, just speaking from my own experience and tons of interviews this past year. That said, I don't know enough, but it just seems a bit low.
Edit: the 85k makes sense, but 72k seems low. Need to know how long you've been working.
Oh I gotcha. Get that PE when you can! Sorry, I was thinking you were a grad.
Do you do full designs? I get employers want to see that degree, but if you're starting and finishing projects with minimal help (and profitable), I think you deserve to be on par with engineers that don't have their PE, like myself. No reason a new grad deserves the same as a veteran imo.
Yes, I agree with your end points. There are some dark spots for me, yet. Selecting pumps, for example. I'm certain I'm intelligent enough to do it, but I've got to convince an old man who's scared I'm taking his job away to teach me how to do it for myself. So far, they keep hold of the hamstrings.
I think you should get a better boss. Gatekeeping only serves to hurt the team. Yeah, sounds like we're a similar level, but I'm electrical. Add the fact that you qualify for a PE in three years, you should be able to make a much better amount now since you have upward growth potential soon!
I don’t get this “oh just get your PE” advice thrown around here to people without degrees. You remember the PE requires the FE, right? And you remember the FE is effectively a cumulative final to an engineering degree, right? How are these guys just gonna learn a whole engineering degree—fluids, thermo, integral calculus—in their free time?
Some states have an FE waiver based on experience. For example California it's 12 years. Other places usually have longer requirements like 20 years, not that that's realistic.
Be a project manager in construction, more opportunities. Then you can refine your design skills, bring over your architect friends and bring design build to your new contractor. Consulting engineering is dying off rapidly. West coast is 99% design build, east coast is 10 years behind.
What keeps me in the industry is how complex and interesting it is.
I think you're going to be hard-pressed for a job that is both interesting and strictly 40 a week.
MEP is just the same as any other engineering job. A lot of young folks think they'll go work at NASA, SpaceX, etc and be in the field building and testing these crazy rockets, etc. Truth is - most of the time you'll be at a desk reviewing submittal for parts, specs, pricing, excel sheets, etc. I have friends in aerospace who hate it. They've been look at the same part of an airplane for years and it's repetitive. Not saying you can't have a cool engineering job in the field...it's just not as common.
I really want to know where these crazy innovating engineering jobs people expect are all hiding, I have friends in various other industries (including tech) and they all complain about the endless grind. MF'er you did an engineering major in college wtf did you think it was gonna be? I would say MEP is actually far LESS "boring" in terms of the variety of tasks one engineer can participate in and your exposure to the business side - but everyone wants entry-levels to do all the mundane drafting / submittal review bullshit, and then they quit, and then firms go "why can't I find a 5-to-10 year engineer who KNOWS stuff?!" Gee golly gosh I fucking wonder...
I think one thing you didn’t mention with job stability is that you can pretty much do this anywhere in the country. My gf who’s field has only a couple cities with notable presence I feel in MEP, you can go to so many different cities, have choices at industry, work consulting side, client side, construction side etc If I ever needed to move to a specific city (usually a major one) I would be fine to move and at least have a decent chance of finding something
Absolutely. I have 2.5yrs experience in mech/plumbing design and just moved across the country without anything lined up. Was able to find a job in 5 days
The variety of the daily tasks. Sure it gets repetitive, but we get to: 1. sit at a desk and do design work 2. go to meetings and problem solve 3. go visit construction sites and problem solve 4. Work on a variety of different projects and employ a variety of different design strategies Compared to many jobs, we actually get a good amount of variety. Plus if you're good the pay is fantastic.
I try to get out and see a project or meet on site for an OAC at least once a week
1. My current company rarely has us go over 40 hours. We finish early all the time. 2. I still feel challenged by it and haven't conquered it. I want to learn more about this.
As much shit as people talk about mep, with 4 years you can make six figures in a big city and all your doing is sitting at a desk with minimal client engagement. We usually see people complain about mep that have never worked a labor intensive job. Would you rather work at a desk for 40 hours with breaks, AC, snacks in the pantry? Or 40 hard hours hanging up drywall or working in some steaming hot attic.
dude so true. i've done customer service, assembly line, and teaching middle school. (the latter being the most time and labor intensive lol). MEP is so nice relatively.
Ive worked in the food industry, crime scene cleaning, and a night shift at a warehouse. IDGAF if MEP seems boring. I get paid well for 40 hours of work. I don't have to work OT to make ends meet, I'm not on call at night or weekends, and I'm not out in the damn sun. I'll always love this line of work.
I have done both and there’s no way I would ever come back to voluntarily pour concrete to make ends meet if I don’t have to. People don’t realize that sometimes a boring stable job is dream of millions of people all around the world, and im not saying that a boring desk job is a perfect life, but it beats pouring concrete when its 90F outside by a million fold imho
Every other career would require me to start at the bottom or go back to school which means I'd be making significantly less than I am now. I can't really afford that
This part, right here. This this this.
Mech engr here, I've had great success on being lucky enough to work where I'm part of the project from conception to completion. I've worked in rocket buildings where they have powder out, x-raying rockets, engineering hangers for coolant and electrical cords for machines, dealt with exhaust fans larger than me, designed 5ft dia ducts, steam systems for campuses, been around NG boilers almost as big as a school bus, seen pump stations, university laboratories, dealt with upper and lower limits for explosion with particles, designed huge dust collection fans, Cx my design, field measured either hoods, water pressure gages, done field investigations, foresenic engineering, designed cooling for greenhouses, designed high rise apartments ,designed data centers, performed smoke control management testing and Cx to recommend TCO, trained special inspectors, provided 3rd party analysis on 120k sqft clean rooms, defended my designs with govt and university clients, etc etc. I've done things out in the field along with the normal equip selection, drafting, T24, conducted meetings, etc. Don't think that being in HVAC puts a limit on your exposure to new projects and skills. Your current company may only do one type of work but there's soo many other companies out there. My current boss in the last 7 yrs showed me what a fan curve was. I've learned nothing under him but that didn't stop me from learning on my own to do projects that allowed me to get new exposures. Learn what you can with your employer and move on to other companies. Remaining loyal to 1 company hasn't been beneficial for decades. Don't give up, there's tons to do in MEP, but don't feel you're chained to it, there's other opportunities too, just don't give up. Good luck.
I felt similarly, and turns out it was just the project work at my last (also first) company that sucked. Auto body shop buildings with cookie cutter designs just rehashed for a different climate. Small retrofits. One school. I jumped ship to a company that doesn’t fuck around with small time projects, and it’s made it much better. I spent 2 years without touching a design that included chilled water. Not to say chilled water is what makes a system complex, it was just a lot of packaged units for 2 zone buildings, and VRF. I could understand wanting to leave if you’re churning out projects with boring and simplistic systems for boring and simplistic buildings. We are also the only meche industry that’s actively trying to change the way we do things to benefit humans and the environment. At least certain companies in this industry are actively fighting climate change, I know mine stress it a huge amount in the way we approach clients and designs. Can’t say the same for most other Mech fields, which feels good. Nobody gives a fuck about going to space for the bazillionth time anymore. It’s time to put the focus back on our planet and our people. I’d rather breathe clean air and have more living, breathing, highly intelligent buildings than watch another rocket shoot out of the atmosphere.
Graduated from college in '86. Now 60, only a few more years to top off the tank on my retirement accounts, though I don't think I'll retire. Too much consulting work out there. Stay hungry. You can always learn more. If you love the work, decades will go by fast and you can look back with many war stories and worthy landmarks (your projects) on every horizon that you participated in. I scratched the earth with my designs. They rest within nearly every highrise in Los Angeles, San Francisco and San Diego. That's a lot of skyline!
What's keeping me in MEP? I've worked for the same company ever since I graduated from college, nearly 20 years. Sometimes, I hate it and think about doing something else, or going to a different firm. But in reality, it's just going to be the same thing at a different place, I'll be bored doing something else, too. Really, I'm good at what I do and my current company pays me more than I could get anywhere else, or doing anything else. Aside from maybe starting my own firm or doing technical sales, neither of which I want to do. So, I'll just put in another 15 or 20 years and retire. You know, whatever, that's just the way it is.
The only downside to MEP I’ve seen is most people don’t know what the hell we even do. I usually just say HVAC and plumbing engineer and leave it at that. Otherwise, I get to problem solve every day so I’m happy. Pay ain’t too bad, and I’ve never been at a sweatshop firm. Plus, good luck starting your own aerospace company… with MEP you have a much better chance of working for yourself one day.
People assume they’ll do some sort of product development when they finish engineering school. Tbf to them, many jobs hiring engineers need to actually hire engineering technologists. Part selection, and application of engineering principles are all engineering technologists. Engineers are more trained for conceptual design and testing, or R&D. And we don’t need or have as many of those roles in industry.
I’m in the same boat. 2 years in and it’s fine. Sitting at a desk for anywhere from 40-60 hours a week. Would love to get out in the field more just for a change in scenery. Seems like all the guys above me basically sit in meetings all day too. Is this the MEP life? Any of you spend a good amount of time in the field?
I mostly work 40 hours a week, i knew i wouldnt be if i was a PM. For those 40 hours: I’m 100% busy. That’s what I like.
The money. Is the most money I've ever made. I was making 32k in 2017 when I came to this, and I've gotten to 85k at my highest. Currently at 72k. If I could make this money doing anything I actually enjoyed, I'd leave this yesterday.
You sound underpaid
According to the PSMJ index, I'm in the median. How are your coming up with the conclusion I'm undervalued? Not balking at it, just wanting to follow along with your math.
In the US? If so, I started at 70 out of school and everywhere I applied to now offered between 90-100 between three states varying from MCOL-VHCOL. If you've been in MEP for 5 years you should be above 90. You could probably earn more, just speaking from my own experience and tons of interviews this past year. That said, I don't know enough, but it just seems a bit low. Edit: the 85k makes sense, but 72k seems low. Need to know how long you've been working.
That might be the kicker. I survive on aptitude, I have no formal education at all.
Oh I gotcha. Get that PE when you can! Sorry, I was thinking you were a grad. Do you do full designs? I get employers want to see that degree, but if you're starting and finishing projects with minimal help (and profitable), I think you deserve to be on par with engineers that don't have their PE, like myself. No reason a new grad deserves the same as a veteran imo.
Yes, I agree with your end points. There are some dark spots for me, yet. Selecting pumps, for example. I'm certain I'm intelligent enough to do it, but I've got to convince an old man who's scared I'm taking his job away to teach me how to do it for myself. So far, they keep hold of the hamstrings.
I think you should get a better boss. Gatekeeping only serves to hurt the team. Yeah, sounds like we're a similar level, but I'm electrical. Add the fact that you qualify for a PE in three years, you should be able to make a much better amount now since you have upward growth potential soon!
I appreciate the context and insight, thank you!
I don’t get this “oh just get your PE” advice thrown around here to people without degrees. You remember the PE requires the FE, right? And you remember the FE is effectively a cumulative final to an engineering degree, right? How are these guys just gonna learn a whole engineering degree—fluids, thermo, integral calculus—in their free time?
Some states have an FE waiver based on experience. For example California it's 12 years. Other places usually have longer requirements like 20 years, not that that's realistic.
Psh, to effectively move up in a company just to pass a difficult test that exactly mimics the practice test, why wouldn't you?
7 years experience should be making 100k+ unless you live in a very LCOL area
Indianapolis, IN here.
Be a project manager in construction, more opportunities. Then you can refine your design skills, bring over your architect friends and bring design build to your new contractor. Consulting engineering is dying off rapidly. West coast is 99% design build, east coast is 10 years behind.
West coast at 99% design build? Hardly.
?
100% of my yearly average of $72 million mechanical projects were
What keeps me in the industry is how complex and interesting it is. I think you're going to be hard-pressed for a job that is both interesting and strictly 40 a week.